LionEnergy Inverters and Battery System
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- Lion Energy battery and inverter system.
Kevin's website: www.intelligent.solar/
My personal DIY system uses these parts:
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Disclaimer:
My videos are in no way intended to be instructional "how-to" lessons. I am simply documenting my project for informational purposes. Property damage, personal injury, or death may result, even when following manufacturer's instructions. I cannot be held liable for such damage or injury. It is YOUR OBLIGATION to ensure that you are complying with any local and federal laws as well as code and permit requirements.
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Always appreciate new equipment reviews. Thanks
Great system with Lion Energy products that’s a must for an average size home . You have the same surge protector like I have on my system . They’re massive and high freq . Like the wall batteries also . Keep it up and running . May the solar be with you .
What a beautiful installation.
Wow great video!! Thank you for sharing so many details - love seeing that kind of stuff. Looks like a great system with just a few bugs to work out. I noticed they're using Nader breakers in those batteries. I still need to pick me some of those up. Looks like they have both poles running parallel (negative) at 06:45. Clearly polarity is not an issue as many were thinking, I will need to research more. Also, 05:45 Holy crap that's a massive heat sink!
I don't like how those breakers were buried so deep and behind the cables. If you were in an emergency it wouldn't be very safe to have to reach in and turn off the breaker.
Kevin is great guy. Hire him if you live in the area and need a system. I’d definitely recommend him.
Thank you for the transparency great video
Très belle perspective d'avenir pour cette jeune entreprise et sa réussite. Le produit est d'une grande qualité et réponds à mon point de vue visuel et de constater l'investissement dans la conception du matériel. Tous mon encouragement. Merci DAVID pour ce partage et à bientôt.👍
$30.000 NOPE the city neighborhood crowds love the Costco lion batteries that are way overpriced junk. There's so many great companies out there that manufacturers there own equipment not shipped from China, and a lot cheaper than this equipment,
Great video David appreciate your dedication to the DIY Community 👍
Exactly. This is a commodity business, price per kwh matters. These guys do not have a competitive product, made worse by the fact it doesn't work. next.
Like any of these "made in america" electronics _actually_ are.
Thank you 🙏🏻 for sharing this useful tip. I like hearing your English accent as well 😊
Thanks for sharing David!! I really hope lion energy figures out the hiccups... That buried breaker for instance 🤔 I know it's only 48 volts nominal but still not a fun zap when it happens. As many others have already mentioned looks like the Deye inverters in a new case, at the black looks pretty sick
Looks a LOT like a Sol-ark inverter inside they must use same manufacture. Thanks David for info.
Great Video!
its a Deye without the touch LCD :) .... great system... been installing them here in the Philippines :)
SunSynk without the display. Interesting.
great presentation but I hope to see you showing your own content and builds of which I had been learnin a lot.
That was weird I just told a friend of mine about you and you are TH-cam channel yesterday and noticed you posted nothing in awhile good timing
I believe Lumnah Acres purchased their system direct and it has been running flawlessly for several weeks in an off-grid application.
Red Poppy Ranch has this system too. Seems to be working well for them. Very expensive compared to DIY, but not everybody wants to do that.
@@JohnDoe4321 - I follow both Lumnah Acres and Red Poppy Ranch and both have had no problem with their systems. I've been running 4 Lion Energy UT-1300s that I bought through Costco and am amazed at how long they hold their charge. I highly recommend the UT-1300s for mobile applications and will probably install a grid-tied Lion Sanctuary system at my home.
Nice built to go with most systems. I wonder how you set that breaker behind all those wires without touching any lol I guess it's only 48 volts but it still tickles the bare arms. Price seemed pretty good too. Good luck.
If the lights flicker, that's _NOT_ "5ms". I have data center UPSes with 10ms switching time; it takes an oscilloscope to see it. (one cycle at 60Hz is 16.7ms)
I am having the same problem with my LED lights flickering. How did you fix that? I have three of the older inverters with 24kW of solar with DC backup with 40 kW of batteries, all LionEnergy.
Are there off-grid inverters that disconnect before the BMS shuts down the charge controllers then turns itself back on when the sun comes up and voltage has risen? I need something that will still be on if I go away for a while (even if it shuts down at night from time to time).
Yup
Definitely another Deye inverter.
Deye makes a great product. So, I can understand why SunSink, Sol-ark, LionEnergy, and others, choose to just buy theirs, and rebrand it. Instead of making their own. I'm surprised that Lion was able to get around the contract between Deye and Sol-ark, regarding split-phase inverters. Maybe it's because, this appears to be a low budget model. With no display or circuit breakers built in.
Great video, as always. Love seeing the inside of things.
I thought it looked familiar
Thank you for sharing this and being honest about it!!... Widowmaker a man of God. "E Pluribus Unum" D'n Deus Le' Vult!!...
16:15 Can you explain what you are shutting down? Is itbthe battery charging?
17:00 When shutting down, does the phase of the inverters are synchronised with the grid?
Otherwise I wonderif you need to have any motor running be re-starting after a delay.
David, thanks again for another wonderful video. Apparently you don't check your emails anymore or you're just too busy. Take care!
I really like the modular design they are trying to achieve here. It could really set them above everyone else.
The inverters obviously have the same supplier as Sol-Ark but went with less features on their model. Out of curiosity, I'm sure they have the same load balance issue when in off grid mode?
Did you guys say what size inverters these are? At 2:00 you show the manual that says 8kw. I'll just assume that's what they are.
Why the hell did the put the battery breaker on the inside of the battery case? Just wtf..
They need to go with a regular display screen on the inverter imho.
Cool stuff. I thought Lion wasn’t available anymore. Does the inverter have a grid port that is in and out not just in. To supply power directly to the main panel like a grid tie inverter? How do you change settings without a display?
I'm inspired to build my own because of your videos! Can you build a cabinate one with castors? Inverter on top and a battery in the cabinate?
What do you need to make this Sanctuary System back up a whole home?
Even a follow up video on this would be great.
Thank you
That inverter looks a LOT like the same case/hardware that Solar-Ark uses :)
That's just a rebranded Deye Inverter, like Solark and many other Chinese clones.
I thought the same thing… especially with the multi function ac output etc…
@@SIGUEL thanks for the reference… I’ve seen the similarities but didn’t put 2 and 2 together
Good video. Looks like a deye inverter. Deye makes the solark inverter, sunsynk in south Africa , and a few others across the world. Each does have their own software and hardware tweaks, but very similar hardware. I guess it could be a rip off of a deye product.
You used to be able to buy deye directly but not sure they do that anymore. Obviously no real tech support that way, but MUCH CHEAPER
Had a question i am building a battery pack for a e-bike what type of battery are good and would you hook it up where to buy it
Yes👍🔋⚡ 💡
I am having the same problem with my LED lights flickering. How did you fix that? I have three of the older inverters with 24kW of solar with DC backup with 40 kW of batteries, all LionEnergy.
The heat sinks are huge! What is the rated efficiency?
Dear, I want to ask you about growatt 5000 and the lithium batteries 48v, is there an issue with the cutoff and if you can do a video about this, thank you.
Ground issue? Thanks for your posting.
Nice overview. I noticed @16:38 your L1 was 472W and L2 was 152W. Seems a little out of balance. Wonder if that is why you had overload alarm? Thanks for sharing
I believe Lion Energy does now sell their Sanctuary system directly to consumers.
Good to know, thanks.
Grid tied solar with battery backup? I guess you would charge the batteries first then the rest go back into the grid?
Esos inversores se ver súper lindos como podría adquirí sus baterías en Puerto Rico?
Very interesting products but from what I see you are only on the American market. My needs are in Central Africa for an off-grid installation for a 400m² house in the middle of the equatorial forest. I am therefore interested in solar electrification systems of more than 10KWA that can meet the needs of my equipment.
Hi David
I have a question about how to connect two inverters to a 2 phase panel 120/240 V . I have 4 solar panel , one controller, two 170 Ah batterie’s in parallel at 12V and two inverters 1000w and 3000w - eliminator in Canada . I supply the power from solar panels to the batteries through the controller. I have a back up generator 10kw and manual transfer switch to select the generator or the inverters . I connected one inverter to one phase and the other one to the other phase and when I connected the second one to the 12V battery smoked and burned out. Can you help me with this please. There is off grid system that I created in the middle of the forest! Thank you 🙏
Why you can not answer by message or web because for me is long distance to call this nr
Quick Tax Question…. I used the solar tax credit about 5 years ago. I am upgrading/replacing my system now…. Can I do the tax credit again? I was told from someone that they think it is only allowed one time. Please help!! Thanks.
Not sure about your specific batteries, but Lithium iron phosphate batteries like being drained and charge all the way, there is no need to stop at 20% or charge only to 80%, 0-100% is fine!
if I understand this correctly at 9:34 you said that those terminals can provide 4 streams of solar? if I am not mistaken you can only provide 2 streams of solar PV1- PV1+ PV2- PV2+ THAT MAKES = 2 STREAMS OF SOLAR ? AM I Correct or am I missing something ?
just saying ! and question are those inverters low or high frequency? thanks for your time
Noticed the same thing. 2 strings supported, 2+ and 2 - , not 4. Only 4 if you count BOTH inverters ^^.
Each inverter has 2 MPPT controllers built in. Which means it can support two arrays independently from one another. But, each MPPT terminal block has space for 2 strings wired in parallel. This means the inverter can support 4 solar strings.
@@DavidPozEnergy my understanding is that anything that becomes parallel becomes one not separate ? the same is to say if you add a combiner box with 6 lines of streams of panels to parallel to one controller it is still one array all together all that those terminals do is to increase the amount of current being delivered into the charge controller but it is still one line to each controller regardless am I wrong ? and I guess these inverters are high frequency because of how easy that you lift it to the wall am I wrong ? thanks David for your time
Are their batteries the 18650 type or a Poly type ??
heya that looks like a good company now only getting the bugs out
Sounds and looks like the electronics is built by the same company that manufactures Solark's electronics. I could be wrong ... but :)
Deye??
17mm...Same Deye/SA battery lug bolts. If Lion is in Utah, why beta test in NE USA? Two SA12K's and 4 DIY 280aH 16S batteries $24K.
I know battery breakers are suppose to pop, but having to take out 30 screws to reset a breaker is kinda stupid. And, unless you know there is a beaker behind said panel, you could look for hours trying to figure out what happened to the battery's output.
I was about to say the same thing. It's a junk move putting the breaker _INSIDE_ the battery compartment where you have to remove dozens of screws just to see it, exposing potentially dangerous voltages (and over 5000A short circuit currents). And I'm guessing there's no document mentioning that breaker being in there. Also, a proper lug and bolt will be way better than any pluggable connector. (cars get away with it because they're high voltage/low current. these inverters are low voltage/high current devices. just visit any telco battery room -- there are no plugs anywhere)
[Note: the battery cells look to be bog-standard Chinese cells. If they haven't been properly compressed, they're tiny aluminum balloons waiting to pop. 50% cycle them daily for a few weeks...]
I see he has a Sense system, what is the black "CORE" box in the breaker panel for?
The CORE and SENSE are both whole house energy monitors. Sense has been having some trouble identifiying every load, but the CORE is a manual version, with a CT clamp for each circuit.
Have you found a HV inverter yet, for small setups, like houses? HV battery that is.
AC coupling requires black start capability when off-grid.
Not if sized properly
I wish you would do a follow up to the Lion system
facebook.com/marketplace/item/1333717207438658/
I run my house on a 3000watt semlax evo 3012 for the last 6 years
I sure hope this is not a scam
Just another rebrand/customize inverter from DEYE, just like solark and sunsynk. But this version took out the screen which i think it is awful in 2022.
emailed lion energy 2 different times trying to get in touch with someone to price equipment, 2 months later still crickets and bought from signature solar
Nice video David.. Why in hell do they bury a circuit breaker behind a solid panel? head scratcher
6:36 "Everything to be DC coupled"
Can you explain the difference between "DC coupled" and "AC coupled" ?
Can you shut down the DC/AC inverters when not in use? Or what's the consumption when iddle?
Could you explain, may be in another video, all those Red Labels.
DC coupled means your connecting your panels, which are DC, directly to the inverter at it's solar inputs. AC coupled means your using an existing inverter and wiring that output into the home side of the inverter.
Aren't these the Deye 8KW Hybrid Inverters with the screens deleted. Seems expensive for the China OEM experience.
I live in California and had no knowledge of solar... so when the sales people came by I bought now I have a system that is tied to the grid and now have two bills on from the solar company and the electric company! Can I bypass the current setup and install a battery backup where I can actually use the solar system during the day and battery at night? I am no electrician so is there someone that could help do it?
Sounds like your solar system actually belongs to the solar installer company and you're leasing their energy from them. You'll have to check your contract with them.
They probably own the panels too. Personally I'd tell them to get their garbage off my roof and do it all over again. I'm sure you've also been locked into a multi-year contract with cancelation penalties:(
Lots of scams out there unfortunately.
Even if you didn't get scammed many states and utilities are changing rules and allowing MASSIVE grid tie fees.
In some jurisdictions they REQUIRE a grid tie.
It's messed up.
Those bus bars don’t seem like they would take many amps? Very thin.
Have the same doubts. Maybe we’re wrong. 😉
@@gerritgroothuis
For me I made a point of getting busbars that could handle 600 Amps.
My system is 7.5 kW of PV and 9.6 kW of battery.
Transformer type? Master and slave or or 240 split phase each? Not designed for micro grid operation? How much surge capacity? Expandable, how many can be added? Will they support three phase? Thanks in advance. Fred
These inverters are transformer-less. Sometimes referred to as "high frequency". Each inverter puts out 120/240. You only need one inverter for 120/240. The second inverter only increases capacity. It's supposed to work as a micro-grid for the house, but there seems to be some glitches. Sorry, I don't know the answers to the rest.
@@DavidPozEnergy Thanks for the reply trying to get together a ranch system, 50 kw to start.
Wow, 50kW of inverters? That's huge.
@@DavidPozEnergy That is to start we will be needing around 200 kw but in 3 phase ( mining equipment) I can't afford lithium ion batteries but I have forklift batteries and equipment to handle them. SMA i found is expandable but they are extremely expensive.
@@DavidPozEnergy I hope I'm not bothering you with so many questions. I am the same person that wanted to send you an array controller, were in California.
Love your videos, how can we reach you please?😭😭
When off grid, I assume the solar will cut off if the batteries are full or if the charging rate is greater than what the batteries and grid load can take?
I was wondering the same. How does the charge regulation work when using AC coupled charging?
@@kevinmills5293 Tesla batteries are AC cuppled and have major issues off grid.
The inverter adjusts the frequency of the sine-wave up when the battery is full. Normal Norrh American power is 60 Hertz. By adjusting it up to 61 Hertz the micro inverters shut off. My yellow SMA inverters have the same function built in.
@@DavidPozEnergy and Victron inverters and many more I imagine. This seems to suggest that AC coupled charging can’t facilitate absorb charging?
@@DavidPozEnergy Since this has a separate "output" for the grid tie inverters I would hope it simply disconnects them instead. I do not like the idea of frequency shifting to control the solar because that would make electric clocks run fast.
Anyone notice the internal battery temp? -100 degrees C.
Looks expensive. And frankly? I rather like the idea of more smaller modules than massive ones like this.
That looks just like a deye inverter less the touch screen
Sol-ark copy?
Both made by Deye.
@@ssoffshore5111 I thpught Solark was a genuine American product with a big sticker price. Go figure. Thanks
I know for a fact lion energy sells direct to consumers.
I dont know why he said they dont.
16:30 Battery: 718 W - Inverter: 625 W - So 92% efficiency
At lower power outputs, the efficiency suffers.
You said you have 4 batteries in parallel, right on the label it says a max of 3! That might be the issue you are having?
Looks like a Sol ark competitor
These are Chinese technology inverters and they are very popular and great products but as in U.S you have different type of distribution system from the Europe so that's why they are slightly different from the Europe version of the same inverter and the Europe version of these inverters are great and very heavy duty and definitely last longer but unfortunately they are not yet perfect for U.S.A grid type
THD is
Mini power plant I’d hate to know the price tag behind this with all man hours including
The inverter looks the same as sol ark.
Whats the price for only 1 battery pack whit out any else???
????
?????
Good anser. Not
I don't recognize the build on those lion products.
DEYE company . They make inverters for sunsynk in Australia , solark for the US . And sell them as DEYE branded as well . Made in china.
30K for just the batteries & inverters! What about the solar cells that actually produce the electricity? Wiring, transfer panels installation, wow, I’d have to live way past the 10 year use of the batteries to even come close to breaking even.
Indeed. Great for those of us who can't even choose grid power though....
That's not a terrible price considering the size
kind of disappointed. A system like this should be primary, not stand by. Also, the nice thing about lifepo is that you can do the 100 percent charge to 100 percent discharge and not degrade the batteries.
That's a myth. They will withstand such abuse, but you will not get 10,000 cycles out of them. (plus LiFePO4 has a sharp cliff at both ends of the cycle.)
@@jfbeam hmm...not on any reviews I've seen...here is a good one...th-cam.com/video/_eonKFwvZ9s/w-d-xo.html...@29:40 he gives the 8000 cycles to 80 percent dod or 21 years to 80 percent....
Ok someone needs to explain to me why someone would spend the money for a 50kwh back up system...??? I love my toys too but this seams like waste of money for those 3 days a year for BACK UP!!!
I am a bit surprised that you could get away with "tricking" the micro inverters. Grid tie inverters generally rely on the low impedance "grid" power to function properly. I am not an expert, so maybe I am missing something ???
It's not that we are tricking the micro-inverters. We are taking advantage of the built-in shut-off feature. I think these particular micro-inverters automatically shut off at 60.5 htz. (normal is 60.0 htz). The inverter adjusts up to 61 htz (again, if memory serves me right).
constructive criticism, you have to have way better wire management. Your electrical panels and battery system was giving me anxiety. As a professional installer I would expect better.
Sounds like "upstarts" have lots of issues...so $30K just for some of this hardware seems huge cost to run your house. Likely need another $20K just to have installer and other guts include--SICK! Even with a $7500 tax credit--solar still needs to come down to $10 to $15k for whole solar set-up on home to make it worth investment. Especially when you are replacing batteries every 10 years--SICK!
David, not sure if you are aware, but I've seen some "you've been selected for this months random giveaway" added to some of your viewers comments. No way to tell if it's coming from you or if it's someone trying to scam your viewers using your name. I've seen this on at least two of your recent videos. Never saw you do any promotional like that before so it looked suspicious.
It's a scam. As I see them I report them to TH-cam and remove, but they keep coming. If I do a giveaway I'll announce it in the video, not the comments.
NOPE! That circuit breaker at 4:25 hidden way back behind those two main power rail connections is an instant fail in design, accessibility (at least 22 screws to access) and safety (reach through in an emergency). Also, those 'negative' and 'positive' quick connectors at 4:09 better not be conductive and exposed like that unless you don't mind surprises. After that I really lost respect for this product and was turned off especially after hearing about the electrical harmonics issues. This product looks like it's still in a 'beta release'.
I’m still interested but I get what your saying, that black box looked so slick until I saw a floating mess of DC buses, ac conductors, coms wires, and breakers.
Nothing special there except big price . The idle power is twice normal for inverters ,there's no excuse for that and the charger can take the cells to 3.475 volts per cell which is damaging your battery at that level. Very confusing wiring. Nah . I can do 20 amps 240 volts for less than $4000 AUD or $3000 in USD. With a 200Ah 48 volt battery with MPPSolar Hybrid inverter. So look around some Folks.
sounds like it yet ready for sale- seem unreliable and very complicated
.
Yes be careful because it’s ripping people off on this Channel
Nice green grass. Lol.
Call Solark tech support they can hel you
Lol
It is good to use non combustible board for mounting systems of this size. Also best to avoid paralleling of any type if you can; it makes the system more reliable by avoiding single point of failure.
That’s great to know. Didn’t realise you could AC couple a battery. Absolutely saver on retrofits. However, how much efficiency loss during charging is there as a result? Thanks.
They're AC coupling the inverter(s). (i,e, bringing the micro-inverter AC power from the solar into the "grid" or "generator" input. vs. bringing the solar as DC down to the MPPT ports.)
@@jfbeam thanks for the clarification. So if you’re using a string inverter setup, you’d still need an inverter that will feed DC into a battery, am I right?
80% is truly not necessary with these batteries, you will age-out the batteries before you kill them from cycling. Be smart and use the entire battery.
Plenty of documentation saying 80 percent cycling dramatically extends the life of the cells. I haven't seen a cell manufacturer that claims other wise .
@@onthelake9554 true, but these cells tale so long to get to 80 percent capacity when cycled at 95 to 100 percent depth of discharge that it is s needless waste. When you only cycle down to 80 percent yiu spend more money for a bigger battery. These, if cycled daily, will likely hit 80 percent capacity in 10 years. So at that point, if they haven't beed ruined in some other way, and 80 percent capacity is not enough for you, just supplement what you have with a small 3 kwh battery. The technology has improved. We no longer need to cycle at 80 percent because the chemistry of these batteries is so good.
If he was using a battery comprised of 8650 or similar cells, then yes, but with Lithium Iron Phosphate it is a needless waste of money and resources.
@@michaelc2644 I'll leave you with this from a major LFP battery manufacturers warranty clause :
"While SimpliPhi’s ten-year Warranty does not specify a warrantied battery cycle life, AmpliPHI and PHI
batteries’ expected cycle life rating is 10,000 cycles when a maximum of 80% DOD is maintained, 5,000
cycles at 90% DOD, and 3,500 cycles at 100% DOD at standard operating conditions. "
If I spend 10k on a battery bank I prefer 10,000 cycles to 3,500 . And still have a useable percent for years to come.
@@onthelake9554 missing the point of engineering a system and this is a manufacturer, not all manufacturers.
In any case enjoy your batteries your way. I begrudge you nothing. This is the USA where we are free to do as fe feel is best!
@@michaelc2644 Your statement of "be smart and use the entire battery " is questionable . The main reason for leaving alone the top and bottom 10 percent is to avoid cell volt imbalance . The middle 80 percent doesn't stress a slightly weaker or slightly stronger cell. If you want the best longevity 80 percent is the "smart" way to go.