It's a sword that is optimized to be a part of formal dress. Lighter and shorter makes it much more practical to wear at dinner or to the Duchess of Richmond's ball. A lot of HEMA folks don't seem to understand that while combat may be the only use they think of for swords, most people who have carried swords for the last 400 years or so did not really expect to fight with them on a regular basis. That wasn't why they wore swords around. That's also true of Edo-period Japan, btw - Tokugawa samurai were primarily courtiers and administrators who did not fight in wars and dueling was generally prohibited. Swords were a badge of status, not something you actually went around slicing and stabbing people with.
They could have went with a more simplistic form of backsword, and have the sword be as compact as the spadroon or smallsword (almost), whilst being vastly more effective than either of them. Also that it was designed for dress and for a particular culture doesn't save it from criticism.
Thats what i think as well. Even if they carry it into war, it was probably mostly designed to look good and be light. As an officer you gotta make sure you look impressive to make sure your men listen. Weapons don't have to be effictive at fighting, there are weapons designed to be light and look good as well, there always were. Until 1945 the cutlass was still an official weapon of the US navy, probably not because its particularly effective.
the best sword i think would be one which has the technology or magic ability to transform shape to fit the situation assuming it can transform smaller it would be potentially lightweight and definitely travel friendly.
What would be the best sword to defend against a horde of bloodthirsty garden gnomes, armed with hatchets, showels and pickaxes, in a suburban front garden ?
Zogg I'd go with the Macine-Gun-Sword. If I recall correctly, it's a machine gun that shoots swords!!! Or is it a sword that cuts through machine guns... Hang on a minute...
grassy climer or you can just weakly slam the guard on a wall, it will probably fall apart right away. but without the unscrewing, its not rightly enough D;
Diarmuid Hurley Do you actually mean you leave your house without at least a dagger, completely disregarding the chance you might be attacked while using a public bathroom? I'm Shocked! Shocked I tell you! :O ;)
Good review. To understand the sword you need to understand the historic context. The war it was being used in relied predominantly on muskets and bayonets. The infantry officers of the British army at the time were members of the aristocracy at a time when the fop was the direction of fashion, if a sword was worn at all it tended to be a court sword and the majority of the officers only experience of fighting would have been duels. Likewise those in charge of the armies had a tendency to lead from the back and it is often the case that designs are approved by the people that don't have to use them. So what is the result from the mindset of the day. "I know what a fight is all about I've fought in several duels, you want a blade that is light and quick" but sir in a battle you may need to fight many people so the blade should be a little stronger. "Fair enough so we shall make it a little wider than a court sword so that it lasts longer against the brute savage attacks of the enemy. "Of course the ordinary soldiers shall fight the enemies ordinary soldiers and we officers shall behave as gentlemen and engage in duels with their officers as civilised men on the battlefield, we of course want to capture them for ransom so certainly many of the duels shall be to first blood so a blade that cuts but not too deeply is important.
initially when i saw the thumbnail i thought you were gonna rag on the smallsword so i thought, oh not this again but at least smallswords and colichmardes were specialised in 2 areas good at thrusting, and light/ short, thus making themconvenient to just have on you all the time everyday. the hinged guard is useful for carrying about, which IS important. but. in the case of an officers sword, it's not a proper backsword, or proper smallsword, i remember matt easton talking about spadroons which suffer from the smallswords and were also military blades the gentlemans sword blade was that of the smallsword which would have been fairly ok for military use since they at least were quite good at the thrust, but might have some problems against a backsword or cutlass or bayonetted musket.
There is no perfect weapon. An awesome sword can be a nightmare in a doorway. A short sword can be useless unless you are in a doorway. A gun beats a knife unless he has it at your throat. An Apache helicopter is great until a MIG shows up. In the blink of an eye we will be talking the merits of a forty watt phased plasma pistol versus a light saber. Everything has a time and place, even the "worst sword" ever can look cool at a party on your hip.
I heard the reason spadroons were created was because duels were common and smallswords were a common weapon in duels and spadroons were primarly built to give someone who was not well trained in the use of a saber or a backsword something that still had a cutting edge but could still feel like a small sword and function like a smallsword.Spadroons werent used because they were highly effective but because it is was easier to train a smallsword practitioner to fight with a spadroon than to fight with a back sword or saber.
Maybe it was just meant as a status symbol or a badge of honor/metal kind of thing? Like "Congratulations on becoming an officer, here's a cool looking sword to put on your wall at home." The dueling blade might've been the coolest and most fashionable thing ever at the time because all the gentlemen were seen using them. Or maybe the person in charge of designing it didn't know what the soldiers were dealing with and thought that making the sabers more similar to what they used in duels would be better?
Right, I was thinking a bit too modern by assuming these swords were issued to soldiers. Thanks for the correction. Still convinced this was probably one of the first wall-hangers. lol
Well...to use this flimsy sword successfully you have to be a real bad ass swordmaster. It's like turning the game difficulty up to 'Hell' level, that's why this sword existed. In that spirit I have to quote Duke Nukem: "Power Armour is for Pussies".
Alexander Werner Jr or just duel other officers in street wear... Though some examples of spadroons are really soft so a thick over coat would probably stop a thrust. Lol
You may say there is no perfect weapon, but I differ. There is the all mighty apache helicopter. An apache helicopter has machine guns that can carry up to 1,200 30mm rounds and in addition to that the Apache carries a range of external stores and weapons on its stub-wing pylons, typically a mixture of AGM-114 Hellfire anti-tank missiles, and Hydra 70 general-purpose unguided 70 mm (2.756 in) rockets. In conlusion I sexually identify as an apache helicopter and I'm INSULTED.
+iamedbytes not to mention every kind of armoured AAV and their SAM's and 23-40mm radar guided autocannons will drop Apaches like flies over a frog pond.
It was the first proper iteration in the long process of decorative swords. Still 'technically' fully functional but really just easy to carry around and it looks good sheathed. It was designed to be worn and for pointing in the direction one wanted troops to go.
not entirely they had to have a practical purpose like chopping brush and cutting cake or popping corks from wine bottles for modern military dress swords that is the case they can't be used to fight with but have Sharpe tips to cut cake with
My guess is that that one is a ceremonial sword; the one they'd wear on parades. I'd wager that when battle was imminent, an officer would switch to a regular cavalry saber. If that's off base, another possibility I'd consider is that the sword was designed more to be held up for a long time and used more like a pointer than an actual weapon; officers were not, and are not, generally expected to bear the brunt of combat, but in those days the officer would use his sword to emphasize gestures, one reason that in movies you often see them draw their sword and lower it in a signal to open fire. That method of use would call for a lighter-weight, comfortable sword that could be sort of used in combat in a pinch but isn't really meant to be if the officer could help it.
in general the 1796 light cavalry officer's saber is better than long sword in most situations imo. i don't know anyone who can out fence me with a long sword when i am using a saber. maybe the world's best longsword user could beat me, but i am far from the best saber fencer. longsword is just clumsy in comparison.
Those weapons where made for different things. Try to fight an opponent in full plate and a longsword with a saber. To compare the 1796 saber you should compare it with similar weapons and most other sabers from that time period was , well a LOT better
Reddokk Fheg a comparable saber is the AN XI of France. By design the pattern 1796 has heavier cut due to the hatchet tip design. That being said the balance of the AN XI is closer to the hilt thus "easier" to control but a weaker cut. All things being relative. The Prussian 1811 would have been more comparable to infantry sabers (thought it is technically a light cavalry saber). All the above are good in their own regards.
Wouldn't it make sense to respond to that question by simply telling the asking person the truth which is that no "sword enthusiast" has the first clue about what sword is "best" or "worst" in ANY situation because none of them have EVER USED A SWORD FOR ANYTHING BUT "PRETENDING" TO USE THEM FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE? Seriously, not only is a "weapon" not a "weapon" until its used AS a "weapon", no "expert" on any kind of "weapon" who has never used that TOOL PRACTICALLY for what it was designed to do in a "real life" situation has real KNOWLEDGE on which to claim or just to let other believe them to be an "expert".
Almost seems like someone drew the design and the people in charge liked the look of it so much they got it mass produced before having chance to test it.
i think it's interesting- this sword shows that it was more important for an officer to be a gentleman than a melee combatant, in much the same way they didn't have muskets or rifles as again, it was more important for them to be a commander than a marksman.
Totally agree that the final weapon was significantly less practical- it's a good example of weapons designed/commissioned by committee. From memory the core concept was a military adaption of the civilian smallsword- the idea being that the officer class would already be familiar with the technical use of those kinds of swords. The primary ideal was to thrust and make quick, short cuts against enemies using bayonets- but it lacked the kinetic output to knock most bayonets out of line. To be fair though, having played with them it can deliver quite good thrusts, despite blade flex- but they do need to be aimed at very 'soft' areas- such as the stomach and such. The problem was the British government shied from making a primarily thrusting blade and compromised on making it 'partially sabre', and also shorter for use on-board commissioned ships. It is the best example of a jack of all trades, master of absolutely none.
I think that when someone asks "What's the best sword ever?" what they're really saying is: "I saw this Japanese Sam-Rye [sic] movie, where the Sam-Rye [sic] uses this really cool sword that was folded, like, two-hundred-thousand times and I reckon that's the best sword ever! Do you agree with me, because you seem like you know your stuff, and I'd like it if you agreed with me on this, even though it's clear I have no idea..."
Is this the start of the era when british officers of any rank weren't supposed to fight as much as direct the men, and die without sweating? Which would make this a compromise between a sabre and a side-sword?
"I don't really know why they thought this design was a good idea..." If you were ever in a military of any kind, you'd know exactly why, lol. Military Intelligence is not just a job, it's an oxymoron. Any bureaucracy is going to be subject to a lot of faults, the deadliest of which is the good idea fairy. It probably started with some high ranking guy saying, "Well, I think we should do this!" and everyone below him (at least those who didn't want to endanger their careers) said, "That's a great idea, sir!" Happens a lot in today's military, and if history is anything to go by, it's always been a problem somewhere. Good leaders tend to die quickly, but there's always got to be someone in charge...
You know how in The Walking Dead, they repeatedly have guys with average musculature stab ordinary knives through human skulls, through the forehead? That's not actually possible, is it?
On the wall behind there is a sword with an extreemly small handle, it's the top one. My hand would not fit if I held it normaly, so whats the deal with it? It looks like it would be easyly dropped or knocked from the hand.
Is it held in the normal way? Would seem they had small hands. I would only fit three fingers around. I have handled a few of these weapons and never understood the size.
i think the brit officer sword was meant to be more of a 'dress uniform' sword and not an actual weapon of war and so when war broke out they didn't have the time or whatever to make a proper war sword.. especially during the times of gun powder weapons and so the only or main melee weapons were for the cavs
What is the best sword in this context: You are in a tank (with no ammo) and get suprised by another tank (with ammo) but the cannon is not facing you yet. What sword would be the best in this context? If you need more pls just ask, I can get more precise.
something short so you can get out of your tank and run over to theirs, if you can get inside you would need something light and quick and usable in restricted spaces.
Is it possibly something similar to the US M1840- M1860 swords that were largely a badge of rank and for pointing? They look very similar, have an even worse hilt.
I will now explain what it is particularly good at. It keeps the officers of the same army from injuring each other too badly while dueling. Some day I will elaborate on this.
Can anyone tell me if the 1796 Spadroon blades were pattern welded, as i have a blade with a Spadroon hilt (shattered) but the blade is pattern welded.
Really nice video, as usual. On a matter of linguistics, though, it can't be called a sabre, if it's straight. Or it could be called a sabre, but with the same correctness conveyed by calling it a machete.
The Tulwar doesn't have a very impressive haft. But even with a Tulwar you can at least finger the guard for a more comfortable grip and a foot or so more of increased range to bring the point to bare more effectively. And the disc on the bottom isn't really a problem worn. It really speaks to the 'quality' of the other blade that you can pull a near equivalent in some respects from the wall and it's still a lot better.
Which sword is it, you show us at 5:30 min ? Because I am in swordfighting and search for an new saber. This looks fine, and so I want to research more about it, but I need a name for this. :-)
Context! Better does not mean more adequate. One time and the next are not the same, there has always been evolution and change. Search Matt Eastons "Spadroon, actualy the best sword. Context."
I get the feeling it's more about officers "leading" their men into battle rather than actually fighting in it. The British cavalry sword of the Napoleonic period was deadly and the French wanted it banned due to the horrific injuries it could cause.
A spadroon is not a saber with a spadroon blade, but a militarised version of the small sword, which is the 18th century gentlemans dueling weapon you were talking about. Small swords have even narrower and thinner blades, so compared to that, the spadroon is massive. So its wasnt designed to be a saber(cutter), it was designed as a beefed up dueling blade and I agree, that's not a great battlefield weapon. Though i think they took this design, because the officers were accustomed to the small sword(dueling was very popular). Still, what were they thinking? Good vid though, keep up the good work!
Thanks for your input! I don't fully agree with you since smallswords have unsharpened triangular cross sections. You could say that a spadroon is an early smallsword design but because of the finger rings that smallswords have the sword usage really focusses on thrusting and spadroons do not. so that's why I usually call them sabers but it's personal opinion really.
ok... scenario: you're falling through a mountain with a lava/fire monster to whom you just screamed "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!" and proceeded to destroy a bridge...what happen should I use? just two points... 1- that's a spadroon not a saber... the system is similar but there are some differences... if you wanna know more I'll post down below the manual (I forgot the word...I think... manuscript?) which me and my mates use at our HEMA club so you can read it up :) oh never mind... you just said it.... well I'll leave the manuscript anyway :P 2- I'd also argue that the "best weapon for a situation" is also one you are used to...for example... I do saber and messer (personal preference) and I also know a bit of longsword...but if I went up against someone that was really good with a longsword I'd never use one. mainly because I suck at it compared to them. therefore I would be better off with a messer or saber even though I would have to work extra hard on closing down the distance since they would have a reach advantage... (maybe use a buckler) but that's just a small point, I'd love to hear your thoughts about it. archive.org/stream/artdefenceonfoo00taylgoog#page/n9/mode/2up
Could it be that it was designed to be a bad weapon to discourage officiers to actually fight? Also it is light and small so it is easy to wear. It seems that it was completely designed for status and easy carrying and that the officiers were specifically requested not to use it. Use a gun and preferably no weapon at all, but command instead. I am in no way an expert on this subject but that seems to be logical to me.
The British HEAVY CAVALRY sword of the era however, of 'Sharpe' fame was excellent, a real beast of a chopping weapon. That flimsy little pig-sticker you're holding on the other hand was basically just a military-approved version of a gentleman's small-sword
because the cutting potential of a swing largely depends on the push or pull you apply during the swing, and a curved sword makes for more blade contact when pulling so in theory a deeper wound
SnapJelly the First time anyone thinks like i do XD most people tell it's about the surface area but we all know how valid that claim is, taken on normally rounded body parts ^^
The thing about finding the worst sword ever you have to look at why it was designed. The reason that spidroon was so popular was because rapiers were too deadly. If you were going into a duel for first blood then you would use a spidroon. I have no idea why you would take it into battle
it's an apple sword : so light and useless that you're supposed to have it And you're opponent either has the same sword (and gladly paid the price for the same shity stufff so he can brag about belongig to the happy few) or he'll have to redeem for killing you so ... cowardly and stylees
Gentlemen's swords weren't just for duels, but also for self defense. They were the snub nose .32 of swords. Maybe most swords would be better, but no sword is more dull and has shorter reach than the one you left at home because it was too heavy or encumbering.
those swords were used as a symbol of authority not for fighting if an officer has to draw his sword in nepolionic type warfare then the line has been broken and he's already fucked lol
It is not the worst sword ever. It is basically an officer's decorative sword, that can be used. You should actually compare it to those small WWII Nazi sabers that are about half the size of the similar German ones from World War I. They all have thin blades that are well chromed, not sharpened or capable of being sharpened at all, and could easily be broken in your hands. It is better than those swords.
I have been saying that I think spadroons were bad on purpose. None of the people using these kind of weapons were really swordsmen. They were gun-people already. If someone encountered a real swordsman, they were going to lose, so they didn't need the sword that would win for them in that situation. (if they thought they were going to possibly win against a sword-master, they would go buy a different sword long before that moment, but it would be expensive). So, they DID need a sword for all of those times when, as long as it is a sword then it will work, but they DIDN'T need to win a sword-fight, because they weren't going to enter into a swordfight, and if it were forced on them, they were probably going to lose anyway. (assuming the average gentlemen were more focused on learning to fire a pistol).
for example, lets say there are some prisoners. Well, if you have any sword at all, then you are safe around the prisoners. you will still be able to damage unarmed, unarmored, bound prisoners. Lets say you are out of bullets and will hide in a room. Well.. if someone comes to the door, they probably will see you first, but unless they have a loaded gun, they aren't going to come in alone, because you have a sword. If they raise the alarm, you can do the same. ,,, Lets say one of your soldiers is out of line. Well, they probably aren't ready to fire their weapon, because you are all at the pub. But, if you want to tell them to calm down and not start a ruckus, and they still want to start a ruckes, you can draw your sword, and they will calm down. If you stab at the drunkard, he will get cut. ------- Now the spadroon is not very powerful with cutting, but it WILL give little cuts as long as it is sharp. If you accidentally touch the blade with your hand, you might get cut. This is more than enough cut to discourage people from trying to grab the sword while you might be able to pull the blade. Additionally,,, for ALL of these situations, your reputation will be much better if you DON'T kill someone. Everyone can understand that some varmint needs to be punished, and will have their wages garnished by the magistrate in a few weeks, but no one can see how people need to die needlessly. Wars are even fought with the intent to preserve lives as much as possible. Force a surrender with absolute superiority, and then everyone gets to regular workdays. The last thing you need, is your officers running around putting 3 inch deep gashes through everyone.
also again,,, the sword can't be heavy. Officers were not strong by the time guns really came around. They litterally didn't do anything that would make them strong. They didn't load supplies onto carts, they didn't tame animals, They didn't go home and farm for the season, they didn't manufacture anything of any kind.... Officers of this time period had books. They studied battles from the standpoint of front-line position and travel times from one town to the next. If the battle was going to be a clear victory, you could see long beforehand and skip the battle and go find a different position. Mostly, there wasn't even much actual fighting, just moving of garrison. If one side was going to easily have better position, then the other side surrendered without a fight, and payed fines (basically fines, ). More people (like today) died from disease and accidents than crime or war. A spadroon was terrible because it needed to be terrible to work. The last thing you needed was some vigilante officer who thought they could accomplish anything but bookkeeping on their own.
"If it was used often in history, it must have been practical" That's not an great arguement at all.. that is entirely situational and not very logical without context. One of an uknown amount/plethora of examples: 6,258 M3 Lees were produced just by the US in WWII. Almost half sent to the British and 1386 lend-leased to the Soviet Union. It was _extremely_ unpopular, mainly due to it's ridicolously large profile - although more so later in the war due to it's poor armament even by mid-war standards. Add on top of that that it had no turret for it's main gun. The Soviet early T-28 and earlier "tanks" weren't much better. Yet they were produced in the thousands. Same goes for several types of planes which I can't recall the exact names of at this moment. This just during WWII.. Now, I guess it all boils down to what you deem as "practical". If your house was surrounded by zombies, if you want to impress a bimbo, hunt a rabbit, idk.. As for the actual soldiers in the field, though, we know from their stories that they'd much rather have anything _else_ of the same class/designation.. Damning their superiors for having to utilize an inferior product and pissing their pants while doing so.. Btw don't get me wrong, I love these videos.
Would be much easier to admit that some designs throughout history has just been plain _bad_ - but better than _nothing_ . The fact that the alternative would be worse doesn't take away the fact that something _is_ bad..
I don't think anybody disagrees with you that spadroons are shit, for the reasons you mention, but you're using the words all wrong. To start with (at least in English) it's not a sabre. Most English-language sword names from this period refer to the blade, and that blade is too short, and shit at everything to be anything but a spadroon. The light, thrusting dualing sword you mention at 6:20 or so? That's called a smallsword. Those things weigh 500g, so there's not enough metal to make a good sword-length cutter. Most of them have triangular cross-sections for lightness and stiffness, so the there isn't really an edge to sharpen. A Spadroon is an attempt to militarize the smallsword. The main way they did that was by changing the blade. The reason the blade sucks is that when you try to add cutting power to a blade that light you fail miserably, while compromising your thrusting power to the point you ain't got no thrusting power no more. The hilt was a standard smallsword hilt. It's perfectly adequate if you're fighting a) trying to hold off a few ruffians for 5 minutes while the constabulary/other local gentleman can be summoned, or b) dueling a guy with another 500g pure thrusting sword. Total shit if you're fighting cavalry troopers with the 1796 Light Cav sabre, or infantryman with heavy-ass muskets and bayonets.
It's a sword that is optimized to be a part of formal dress. Lighter and shorter makes it much more practical to wear at dinner or to the Duchess of Richmond's ball. A lot of HEMA folks don't seem to understand that while combat may be the only use they think of for swords, most people who have carried swords for the last 400 years or so did not really expect to fight with them on a regular basis. That wasn't why they wore swords around. That's also true of Edo-period Japan, btw - Tokugawa samurai were primarily courtiers and administrators who did not fight in wars and dueling was generally prohibited. Swords were a badge of status, not something you actually went around slicing and stabbing people with.
They could have went with a more simplistic form of backsword, and have the sword be as compact as the spadroon or smallsword (almost), whilst being vastly more effective than either of them. Also that it was designed for dress and for a particular culture doesn't save it from criticism.
Idiot
Thats what i think as well. Even if they carry it into war, it was probably mostly designed to look good and be light. As an officer you gotta make sure you look impressive to make sure your men listen.
Weapons don't have to be effictive at fighting, there are weapons designed to be light and look good as well, there always were.
Until 1945 the cutlass was still an official weapon of the US navy, probably not because its particularly effective.
Even smallswords are better at that
the best sword i think would be one which has the technology or magic ability to transform shape to fit the situation
assuming it can transform smaller it would be potentially lightweight and definitely travel friendly.
Where do you get your weapons from, medieval sword-jesus?
I lol'd
internet
TapDog96
medieval sword jesus...awesomr
TapDog96 some one recreates and then sells it and he buys it
What would be the best sword to defend against a horde of bloodthirsty garden gnomes, armed with hatchets, showels and pickaxes, in a suburban front garden ?
just consult them with a strict voice
Zogg
I'd go with the Macine-Gun-Sword. If I recall correctly, it's a machine gun that shoots swords!!! Or is it a sword that cuts through machine guns... Hang on a minute...
The best weapon against hords is crescent moon spade imho.
A spinning lawnmower blade.
Gnomes, hmmmm.. i believe iDubbz has a video on how to deal with
a Keemstar- I mean, gnome.
You cant even unscrew that swords pommel!? But how do i end him rightly then!?
clearly if your into that its your responsibility to carry a hacksaw nothing says ended rightly more than a 10 minute hacksaw break
grassy climer
or you can just weakly slam the guard on a wall, it will probably fall apart right away. but without the unscrewing, its not rightly enough D;
Viktor Nikolayev lolololololololololololol id pay to see that
Throw the whole thing.
Aaah this avatar is everywhere
I gotta say though... it looks damn pretty #allswordsarebeautiful #stopswordshaming
In a toilet booth, I'd definitely go for a dagger or gladius XD
What if there isn't a dagger or gladius in there.?
Diarmuid Hurley Do you actually mean you leave your house without at least a dagger, completely disregarding the chance you might be attacked while using a public bathroom? I'm Shocked! Shocked I tell you! :O ;)
Good review. To understand the sword you need to understand the historic context. The war it was being used in relied predominantly on muskets and bayonets. The infantry officers of the British army at the time were members of the aristocracy at a time when the fop was the direction of fashion, if a sword was worn at all it tended to be a court sword and the majority of the officers only experience of fighting would have been duels. Likewise those in charge of the armies had a tendency to lead from the back and it is often the case that designs are approved by the people that don't have to use them. So what is the result from the mindset of the day. "I know what a fight is all about I've fought in several duels, you want a blade that is light and quick" but sir in a battle you may need to fight many people so the blade should be a little stronger. "Fair enough so we shall make it a little wider than a court sword so that it lasts longer against the brute savage attacks of the enemy. "Of course the ordinary soldiers shall fight the enemies ordinary soldiers and we officers shall behave as gentlemen and engage in duels with their officers as civilised men on the battlefield, we of course want to capture them for ransom so certainly many of the duels shall be to first blood so a blade that cuts but not too deeply is important.
initially when i saw the thumbnail i thought you were gonna rag on the smallsword so i thought, oh not this again
but at least smallswords and colichmardes were specialised in 2 areas
good at thrusting, and light/ short, thus making themconvenient to just have on you all the time everyday.
the hinged guard is useful for carrying about, which IS important. but. in the case of an officers sword, it's not a proper backsword, or proper smallsword,
i remember matt easton talking about spadroons which suffer from the smallswords and were also military blades
the gentlemans sword blade was that of the smallsword which would have been fairly ok for military use since they at least were quite good at the thrust, but might have some problems against a backsword or cutlass or bayonetted musket.
There is no perfect weapon. An awesome sword can be a nightmare in a doorway. A short sword can be useless unless you are in a doorway. A gun beats a knife unless he has it at your throat. An Apache helicopter is great until a MIG shows up.
In the blink of an eye we will be talking the merits of a forty watt phased plasma pistol versus a light saber.
Everything has a time and place, even the "worst sword" ever can look cool at a party on your hip.
14:37 The 1796 is not specialized for nothing. It is specialized for wearing.
To me it looks like someone tried to turn a dress sword into a fighting sword.
I heard the reason spadroons were created was because duels were common and smallswords were a common weapon in duels and spadroons were primarly built to give someone who was not well trained in the use of a saber or a backsword something that still had a cutting edge but could still feel like a small sword and function like a smallsword.Spadroons werent used because they were highly effective but because it is was easier to train a smallsword practitioner to fight with a spadroon than to fight with a back sword or saber.
Someone obviously wanted to thin out the amount of officers. Seperate the dumb-dumbs from the sensible ones.
This sword is not a saber, it is a spadroon. Even by your definition of a saber it's not qualified because it don't have saber type hilt.
To me a sword with a clam hilt and knuckle bow from the 18th or 19th century can be called a saber
@@thatchannel195 Then your unique draw of being "That Channel" is probably that you're wrong about most things.
Actually, they did invent the perfect weapon...
Guns.
perfect for when someone tackles you from behind or attacks you close range from behind a wall!
SnapJelly hmmmmm,
touché...
Gentleman Jake pistols.
Gentleman Jake Also they don't have a pommel
China invented those bro
Maybe it was just meant as a status symbol or a badge of honor/metal kind of thing? Like "Congratulations on becoming an officer, here's a cool looking sword to put on your wall at home." The dueling blade might've been the coolest and most fashionable thing ever at the time because all the gentlemen were seen using them.
Or maybe the person in charge of designing it didn't know what the soldiers were dealing with and thought that making the sabers more similar to what they used in duels would be better?
people didn't ''get'' swords, you had to buy them yourself, and the model that this was based on was a trooper sabre, meaning used by normal soldiers
Right, I was thinking a bit too modern by assuming these swords were issued to soldiers. Thanks for the correction. Still convinced this was probably one of the first wall-hangers. lol
Oh my goodness, my jaw dropped when you flipped the guard up. XD
it would actually have been a better guard to have just been permanently stuck in the flipped-up position.
Well...to use this flimsy sword successfully you have to be a real bad ass swordmaster. It's like turning the game difficulty up to 'Hell' level, that's why this sword existed. In that spirit I have to quote Duke Nukem: "Power Armour is for Pussies".
Alexander Werner Jr or just duel other officers in street wear... Though some examples of spadroons are really soft so a thick over coat would probably stop a thrust. Lol
The Americans did develop the perfect weapon - the Tomahawk cruise missile: fired from 500 miles away :)
Sherratt Pemberton (assassins creed tomahawk) :p
Now try deploying it in a toilet booth for self defence.
I like ICBMs at thousands of miles.
iamedbytes except the 500 other ICBMs flying back your way after you fire yours :/
Sherratt Pemberton I will travel to Valhalla with a million vanquished foes!
Could you tell me which sabre you were comparing the 1796 with? I'm sadly not familiar enough with regulation patterns to say one way or another.
The best sword ever would clearly be a katana attached to a pomel.
OOTurok triggered of the face of the planet...
Guess thats why the light cavalry sabre was more popular.
"Dinosaurussen"?
I'm intrigued.
You may say there is no perfect weapon, but I differ. There is the all mighty apache helicopter. An apache helicopter has machine guns that can carry up to 1,200 30mm rounds and in addition to that the Apache carries a range of external stores and weapons on its stub-wing pylons, typically a mixture of AGM-114 Hellfire anti-tank missiles, and Hydra 70 general-purpose unguided 70 mm (2.756 in) rockets. In conlusion I sexually identify as an apache helicopter and I'm INSULTED.
What if you're out of gas?
Sebastian D. I give you sand! Sand f****s up an Apache pretty good. . Don't forget the warthog, the A10. 30 mm cannon and twice as fast. You
+iamedbytes not to mention every kind of armoured AAV and their SAM's and 23-40mm radar guided autocannons will drop Apaches like flies over a frog pond.
Could it be that the sword been used as a decorative item only?
Then why the Guard joints?
... cause they're decorative?
It was the first proper iteration in the long process of decorative swords. Still 'technically' fully functional but really just easy to carry around and it looks good sheathed. It was designed to be worn and for pointing in the direction one wanted troops to go.
not entirely they had to have a practical purpose like chopping brush and cutting cake or popping corks from wine bottles
for modern military dress swords that is the case they can't be used to fight with but have Sharpe tips to cut cake with
I really like your videos thanks! Sometimes would be cool to see some pictures of what you are explaining. Thanks again for your videos!
You should do a spodroon collab with Mett Euston
My guess is that that one is a ceremonial sword; the one they'd wear on parades. I'd wager that when battle was imminent, an officer would switch to a regular cavalry saber. If that's off base, another possibility I'd consider is that the sword was designed more to be held up for a long time and used more like a pointer than an actual weapon; officers were not, and are not, generally expected to bear the brunt of combat, but in those days the officer would use his sword to emphasize gestures, one reason that in movies you often see them draw their sword and lower it in a signal to open fire.
That method of use would call for a lighter-weight, comfortable sword that could be sort of used in combat in a pinch but isn't really meant to be if the officer could help it.
The longer i watched the more entertaining this video became^^
in general the 1796 light cavalry officer's saber is better than long sword in most situations imo.
i don't know anyone who can out fence me with a long sword when i am using a saber.
maybe the world's best longsword user could beat me, but i am far from the best saber fencer. longsword is just clumsy in comparison.
Those weapons where made for different things. Try to fight an opponent in full plate and a longsword with a saber.
To compare the 1796 saber you should compare it with similar weapons and most other sabers from that time period was , well a LOT better
Reddokk Fheg a comparable saber is the AN XI of France. By design the pattern 1796 has heavier cut due to the hatchet tip design. That being said the balance of the AN XI is closer to the hilt thus "easier" to control but a weaker cut. All things being relative. The Prussian 1811 would have been more comparable to infantry sabers (thought it is technically a light cavalry saber). All the above are good in their own regards.
Wouldn't it make sense to respond to that question by simply telling the asking person the truth which is that no "sword enthusiast" has the first clue about what sword is "best" or "worst" in ANY situation because none of them have EVER USED A SWORD FOR ANYTHING BUT "PRETENDING" TO USE THEM FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE? Seriously, not only is a "weapon" not a "weapon" until its used AS a "weapon", no "expert" on any kind of "weapon" who has never used that TOOL PRACTICALLY for what it was designed to do in a "real life" situation has real KNOWLEDGE on which to claim or just to let other believe them to be an "expert".
Could it be designed for Fencing/Dueling to keep drunk soldiers from killing each other?
Do a Review on Lightsabers! :'D
Longsword vs Katana vs Lightsaber
not a bad idea actually
Not every sword is going to be good at everything... except a light saber... :D - never even heard of the battery running out. not sure why...
the beam emitter is a like a MF cell in fallout
Lightsabers are impossible to make
duh, but fictional ones aren't :P
Almost seems like someone drew the design and the people in charge liked the look of it so much they got it mass produced before having chance to test it.
What would you choose if you had to choose 3 weapons, not knowing what kinds of situations or places you would have to fight?
halbert, rapier, main gauche
If you're opponent is in an open field, you don't use a polearm. You shoot them
i think it's interesting- this sword shows that it was more important for an officer to be a gentleman than a melee combatant, in much the same way they didn't have muskets or rifles as again, it was more important for them to be a commander than a marksman.
Totally agree that the final weapon was significantly less practical- it's a good example of weapons designed/commissioned by committee. From memory the core concept was a military adaption of the civilian smallsword- the idea being that the officer class would already be familiar with the technical use of those kinds of swords. The primary ideal was to thrust and make quick, short cuts against enemies using bayonets- but it lacked the kinetic output to knock most bayonets out of line.
To be fair though, having played with them it can deliver quite good thrusts, despite blade flex- but they do need to be aimed at very 'soft' areas- such as the stomach and such. The problem was the British government shied from making a primarily thrusting blade and compromised on making it 'partially sabre', and also shorter for use on-board commissioned ships. It is the best example of a jack of all trades, master of absolutely none.
I think that when someone asks "What's the best sword ever?" what they're really saying is:
"I saw this Japanese Sam-Rye [sic] movie, where the Sam-Rye [sic] uses this really cool sword that was folded, like, two-hundred-thousand times and I reckon that's the best sword ever! Do you agree with me, because you seem like you know your stuff, and I'd like it if you agreed with me on this, even though it's clear I have no idea..."
Is this the start of the era when british officers of any rank weren't supposed to fight as much as direct the men, and die without sweating? Which would make this a compromise between a sabre and a side-sword?
"I don't really know why they thought this design was a good idea..."
If you were ever in a military of any kind, you'd know exactly why, lol. Military Intelligence is not just a job, it's an oxymoron. Any bureaucracy is going to be subject to a lot of faults, the deadliest of which is the good idea fairy. It probably started with some high ranking guy saying, "Well, I think we should do this!" and everyone below him (at least those who didn't want to endanger their careers) said, "That's a great idea, sir!" Happens a lot in today's military, and if history is anything to go by, it's always been a problem somewhere. Good leaders tend to die quickly, but there's always got to be someone in charge...
Greetings dude, i love your videos!
I think i'm your 6000th subscriber!
Keep up with the great work!
You know how in The Walking Dead, they repeatedly have guys with average musculature stab ordinary knives through human skulls, through the forehead? That's not actually possible, is it?
probably not
On the wall behind there is a sword with an extreemly small handle, it's the top one. My hand would not fit if I held it normaly, so whats the deal with it? It looks like it would be easyly dropped or knocked from the hand.
Colin Macdonald That may be a Talwar from India and the Hindu Kush you know, Afghanistan, Pakistan.
Is it held in the normal way? Would seem they had small hands. I would only fit three fingers around. I have handled a few of these weapons and never understood the size.
Colin Macdonald little Hindu guys? None of your strapping Sikhs for this.
what is the best sword to use on an iced pond and why is it?
i think the brit officer sword was meant to be more of a 'dress uniform' sword and not an actual weapon of war and so when war broke out they didn't have the time or whatever to make a proper war sword.. especially during the times of gun powder weapons and so the only or main melee weapons were for the cavs
What is the best sword in this context:
You are in a tank (with no ammo) and get suprised by another tank (with ammo) but the cannon is not facing you yet.
What sword would be the best in this context? If you need more pls just ask, I can get more precise.
something short so you can get out of your tank and run over to theirs, if you can get inside you would need something light and quick and usable in restricted spaces.
Is it possibly something similar to the US M1840- M1860 swords that were largely a badge of rank and for pointing? They look very similar, have an even worse hilt.
I will now explain what it is particularly good at. It keeps the officers of the same army from injuring each other too badly while dueling. Some day I will elaborate on this.
Can anyone tell me if the 1796 Spadroon blades were pattern welded, as i have a blade with a Spadroon hilt (shattered) but the blade is pattern welded.
You that guy from the princess bride movie ?
Don't hold back man, tell us how you really feel!
Seriously great video, those hinges in the hand guards are beyond mental.
It's like the sword was designed by someone who knew nothing about swords
Really nice video, as usual. On a matter of linguistics, though, it can't be called a sabre, if it's straight. Or it could be called a sabre, but with the same correctness conveyed by calling it a machete.
isn't it meant to be used on horseback? does that change anything? and what is the best cavalry sword
nope, its an infantry officer's sword
The Tulwar doesn't have a very impressive haft. But even with a Tulwar you can at least finger the guard for a more comfortable grip and a foot or so more of increased range to bring the point to bare more effectively. And the disc on the bottom isn't really a problem worn. It really speaks to the 'quality' of the other blade that you can pull a near equivalent in some respects from the wall and it's still a lot better.
You're wrong. The perfect weapon is love.
Which sword is it, you show us at 5:30 min ? Because I am in swordfighting and search for an new saber. This looks fine, and so I want to research more about it, but I need a name for this. :-)
french model 1822 cavalry sabre
Thanks. :-)
Maybe it was designed primarily as a dress sword in war? While on the battlefield?
Okay, how good a sword is Game of Throne's Needle? And in what situations is a bastard sword best in?
Context!
Better does not mean more adequate.
One time and the next are not the same, there has always been evolution and change.
Search Matt Eastons "Spadroon, actualy the best sword. Context."
Whats the best weapon in a narrow area
Sword balance is with the weight of the hand included. unless it’s when chopping hard stuff and that’s decided by the point of impact
I get the feeling it's more about officers "leading" their men into battle rather than actually fighting in it. The British cavalry sword of the Napoleonic period was deadly and the French wanted it banned due to the horrific injuries it could cause.
P.s. Cavalry Sabre (Light Cavalry).
A spadroon is not a saber with a spadroon blade, but a militarised version of the small sword, which is the 18th century gentlemans dueling weapon you were talking about. Small swords have even narrower and thinner blades, so compared to that, the spadroon is massive. So its wasnt designed to be a saber(cutter), it was designed as a beefed up dueling blade and I agree, that's not a great battlefield weapon. Though i think they took this design, because the officers were accustomed to the small sword(dueling was very popular). Still, what were they thinking? Good vid though, keep up the good work!
Thanks for your input! I don't fully agree with you since smallswords have unsharpened triangular cross sections. You could say that a spadroon is an early smallsword design but because of the finger rings that smallswords have the sword usage really focusses on thrusting and spadroons do not. so that's why I usually call them sabers but it's personal opinion really.
Its kinda looks like a dollar bin version of a royalty sword. Maybe they just made a bunch of simple swords so their officers would look more royal.
ok... scenario:
you're falling through a mountain with a lava/fire monster to whom you just screamed "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!" and proceeded to destroy a bridge...what happen should I use?
just two points...
1- that's a spadroon not a saber... the system is similar but there are some differences... if you wanna know more I'll post down below the manual (I forgot the word...I think... manuscript?) which me and my mates use at our HEMA club so you can read it up :)
oh never mind... you just said it.... well I'll leave the manuscript anyway :P
2- I'd also argue that the "best weapon for a situation" is also one you are used to...for example... I do saber and messer (personal preference) and I also know a bit of longsword...but if I went up against someone that was really good with a longsword I'd never use one. mainly because I suck at it compared to them. therefore I would be better off with a messer or saber even though I would have to work extra hard on closing down the distance since they would have a reach advantage... (maybe use a buckler)
but that's just a small point, I'd love to hear your thoughts about it.
archive.org/stream/artdefenceonfoo00taylgoog#page/n9/mode/2up
The best sword ever is whatever the best swordsman ever is holding.
Could it be that it was designed to be a bad weapon to discourage officiers to actually fight? Also it is light and small so it is easy to wear. It seems that it was completely designed for status and easy carrying and that the officiers were specifically requested not to use it. Use a gun and preferably no weapon at all, but command instead. I am in no way an expert on this subject but that seems to be logical to me.
Best sword ever? you mean the British Calvary Sabre?
I would say spadroons are good enough to get the job done but it will definantly not do that job with a high level of efficiency.
The British HEAVY CAVALRY sword of the era however, of 'Sharpe' fame was excellent, a real beast of a chopping weapon. That flimsy little pig-sticker you're holding on the other hand was basically just a military-approved version of a gentleman's small-sword
What are the swords in the background?
Looks very much like a ceremonial sword.
What is the best sword to use in a duel
usually in a duel both parties use the same weapon
Claims it's impossible to make a weapon perfect at everything, clearly doesn't know what a light saber is.
well have you ever made one?
i think it is made for bleeding an unarmored target slicing not cutting or stabbing
why do you think a curve would improve the cutting power of a sword?
because the cutting potential of a swing largely depends on the push or pull you apply during the swing, and a curved sword makes for more blade contact when pulling so in theory a deeper wound
SnapJelly the First time anyone thinks like i do XD
most people tell it's about the surface area but we all know how valid that claim is, taken on normally rounded body parts ^^
I wouldn't have put a fuller on that...
It's an officer's sword, and officers don't fight
any other weapon used in the same wars that was worse?
Lucas Biermann I don't know about the era, but many blades could lose to even this blade, by nature of them being shorter, and for closer range.
Which, mind you, would not mean they're worse, but again loses in the rock-paper-scissors argument.
I thought you were exaggerating until i saw how flexible it is...that sword is garbage.
PochocloEn3D not if the other guy's sword isn't any better
I wouldn't wanna be nitpickie, but it's a Spadroon. Like a smallsword but with a terrible cutting edge for military use.
The thing about finding the worst sword ever you have to look at why it was designed. The reason that spidroon was so popular was because rapiers were too deadly. If you were going into a duel for first blood then you would use a spidroon. I have no idea why you would take it into battle
it's an apple sword : so light and useless that you're supposed to have it
And you're opponent either has the same sword (and gladly paid the price for the same shity stufff so he can brag about belongig to the happy few) or he'll have to redeem for killing you so ... cowardly and stylees
"It would be wayyyyy pointier!"
Who made the dao on the wall behind you.
Gentlemen's swords weren't just for duels, but also for self defense. They were the snub nose .32 of swords. Maybe most swords would be better, but no sword is more dull and has shorter reach than the one you left at home because it was too heavy or encumbering.
@Snapjelly I'm honestly curious to hear your response
I chuckled at the hinged guard
those swords were used as a symbol of authority not for fighting if an officer has to draw his sword in nepolionic type warfare then the line has been broken and he's already fucked lol
We're all so lovably violent.
yeah... officers didnt fight much, those swords are probably just decorative
It is not the worst sword ever. It is basically an officer's decorative sword, that can be used. You should actually compare it to those small WWII Nazi sabers that are about half the size of the similar German ones from World War I. They all have thin blades that are well chromed, not sharpened or capable of being sharpened at all, and could easily be broken in your hands. It is better than those swords.
I have been saying that I think spadroons were bad on purpose. None of the people using these kind of weapons were really swordsmen. They were gun-people already. If someone encountered a real swordsman, they were going to lose, so they didn't need the sword that would win for them in that situation. (if they thought they were going to possibly win against a sword-master, they would go buy a different sword long before that moment, but it would be expensive). So, they DID need a sword for all of those times when, as long as it is a sword then it will work, but they DIDN'T need to win a sword-fight, because they weren't going to enter into a swordfight, and if it were forced on them, they were probably going to lose anyway. (assuming the average gentlemen were more focused on learning to fire a pistol).
for example, lets say there are some prisoners. Well, if you have any sword at all, then you are safe around the prisoners. you will still be able to damage unarmed, unarmored, bound prisoners. Lets say you are out of bullets and will hide in a room. Well.. if someone comes to the door, they probably will see you first, but unless they have a loaded gun, they aren't going to come in alone, because you have a sword. If they raise the alarm, you can do the same. ,,, Lets say one of your soldiers is out of line. Well, they probably aren't ready to fire their weapon, because you are all at the pub. But, if you want to tell them to calm down and not start a ruckus, and they still want to start a ruckes, you can draw your sword, and they will calm down. If you stab at the drunkard, he will get cut. ------- Now the spadroon is not very powerful with cutting, but it WILL give little cuts as long as it is sharp. If you accidentally touch the blade with your hand, you might get cut. This is more than enough cut to discourage people from trying to grab the sword while you might be able to pull the blade. Additionally,,, for ALL of these situations, your reputation will be much better if you DON'T kill someone. Everyone can understand that some varmint needs to be punished, and will have their wages garnished by the magistrate in a few weeks, but no one can see how people need to die needlessly. Wars are even fought with the intent to preserve lives as much as possible. Force a surrender with absolute superiority, and then everyone gets to regular workdays. The last thing you need, is your officers running around putting 3 inch deep gashes through everyone.
also again,,, the sword can't be heavy. Officers were not strong by the time guns really came around. They litterally didn't do anything that would make them strong. They didn't load supplies onto carts, they didn't tame animals, They didn't go home and farm for the season, they didn't manufacture anything of any kind.... Officers of this time period had books. They studied battles from the standpoint of front-line position and travel times from one town to the next. If the battle was going to be a clear victory, you could see long beforehand and skip the battle and go find a different position. Mostly, there wasn't even much actual fighting, just moving of garrison. If one side was going to easily have better position, then the other side surrendered without a fight, and payed fines (basically fines, ). More people (like today) died from disease and accidents than crime or war. A spadroon was terrible because it needed to be terrible to work. The last thing you needed was some vigilante officer who thought they could accomplish anything but bookkeeping on their own.
can you do weapon rewiews
Are you sure that's not a sabre made for indian troops under british command. The hilts were made smaller to fit better to their smaller hands.
Well it come when people primary use guns in war ,almost none people use sword in that time, so it just like dressing sword nothing more.
"If it was used often in history, it must have been practical" That's not an great arguement at all.. that is entirely situational and not very logical without context.
One of an uknown amount/plethora of examples: 6,258 M3 Lees were produced just by the US in WWII. Almost half sent to the British and 1386 lend-leased to the Soviet Union.
It was _extremely_ unpopular, mainly due to it's ridicolously large profile - although more so later in the war due to it's poor armament even by mid-war standards. Add on top of that that it had no turret for it's main gun.
The Soviet early T-28 and earlier "tanks" weren't much better. Yet they were produced in the thousands.
Same goes for several types of planes which I can't recall the exact names of at this moment. This just during WWII..
Now, I guess it all boils down to what you deem as "practical". If your house was surrounded by zombies, if you want to impress a bimbo, hunt a rabbit, idk..
As for the actual soldiers in the field, though, we know from their stories that they'd much rather have anything _else_ of the same class/designation..
Damning their superiors for having to utilize an inferior product and pissing their pants while doing so..
Btw don't get me wrong, I love these videos.
Would be much easier to admit that some designs throughout history has just been plain _bad_ - but better than _nothing_ .
The fact that the alternative would be worse doesn't take away the fact that something _is_ bad..
Think I'll just call Jelly "Geddy" from now on. Gotta admit, there's a similarity there :)
what kind of sword do you use?
longsword, arming sword, sabre and rapier
did u like keris?
A lot of weapon decisions are dumb, especially the more recent history gets.
I don't think anybody disagrees with you that spadroons are shit, for the reasons you mention, but you're using the words all wrong. To start with (at least in English) it's not a sabre. Most English-language sword names from this period refer to the blade, and that blade is too short, and shit at everything to be anything but a spadroon.
The light, thrusting dualing sword you mention at 6:20 or so? That's called a smallsword. Those things weigh 500g, so there's not enough metal to make a good sword-length cutter. Most of them have triangular cross-sections for lightness and stiffness, so the there isn't really an edge to sharpen. A Spadroon is an attempt to militarize the smallsword. The main way they did that was by changing the blade. The reason the blade sucks is that when you try to add cutting power to a blade that light you fail miserably, while compromising your thrusting power to the point you ain't got no thrusting power no more.
The hilt was a standard smallsword hilt. It's perfectly adequate if you're fighting a) trying to hold off a few ruffians for 5 minutes while the constabulary/other local gentleman can be summoned, or b) dueling a guy with another 500g pure thrusting sword. Total shit if you're fighting cavalry troopers with the 1796 Light Cav sabre, or infantryman with heavy-ass muskets and bayonets.
lol "toilet booth"? kinda funny if you were taking a opiss and a guy comes at you, you piss on him as distraction and draw and stab....