Remember that gacha is a marathon, not a sprint. You won't get everything right away, but you will get most of what you want over time. Save up for reruns.
I'm curious though, how would the power creep that's already happened to lycaon be explained ? Both he and qingyi are S tier stunners and qingyi clearly outclasses him in every aspect.
@@talgrus3281 you answered your own question. Limited S rank are supposed to be better than standard S rank, or else them being limited wouldn't make much sense anyway
Power creep in Honkai Impact is insane, but only for one particular mode in the entire game, and you can still do good even with older characters. The only people truly affected by power creep are those that are very, VERY, competitive. And at that point you'll never beat anyone that spends a lot in the game. Hoyo has never, EVER, released content that cannot be cleared by free or trial characters.
Caeser is probably going to be the last character I pull for just because I like their design a ton, and I want an S rank of each category. Afterward, I'll sit out the banners until and save up for a character I REALLY enjoy.
With you on this one, I honestly just want the entire Sons of Calydon characters because they cool. No other faction really interests me besides Victoria and PubSec, just Corin and Rina, the only characters I like from that faction. And also Qingyi because she’s funny to me.
ZY is literally still better than Jane though, Jello Zenless Zero gave an honest first impresson of her, check him out, while other CCs' :"OMG BIG NUMBER JANE BROKEN GYATTTTTT 1 JANEBILLION DMG!!!!" *thumbnail with Jane and big pp dmg number*
@@AverageLuckGamer they said they're working on being able to walk around the overworld as all characters for 1.3? I remember it being 1.3, could be 1.2 though. point is, they're gonna have to add a walk mode for all characters... I know one thing though, I aint using Ben to walk around the overworld no matter how much I like his personality
you are right on a few things, the first is that you really shouldn't be worried about powercreep because new options don't suddenly make older options worse at what they currently do well. So your dps isn't going to suddenly do less damage or be a worse unit if a higher damage unit comes out for instance. Now regarding Caesar; the concerns about are not about powercreeping the A rank defenders, caesar's current beta iteration has the fastest daze buildup in the entire game (so she stuns faster than Qingyi does). She also gives a 1000 attack buff to your onfielder along with a generic damage increase buff (so she buffs more than any soukaku does). So the powercreep discussion about Caesar is not about her being better than Defense characters, it's the fact that she is shaping up to not only be the best stunner in the game but also the best support in the game while being neither a stunner nor a support. All of this without mentioning the fact that her additional ability is not only activated by members of her faction but by any character who can perform a defensive assist (meaning she works with literally every melee unit in the entire game). So while on one hand, Caesar will not suddenly make other units worse by power creeping them, she is absolutely be looking to be the best unit in the game on pretty much every single team: The current Beta calcs have Caesar being stronger than Lycaon in an Ellen against neutral resistant enemies. granted, i would be extremely surprised if her current iteration makes it to the live game, she will most definitely be nerfed in some way or another.
I rather her be broken, what's the point of a niche unit? Ben and Seth, do good enough shields, I'm playing the game to pull characters, if some characters get powercrept, so be it. I rather have broken units to pull for than mid units that don't get pulled and just takes up space in my device's storage.
S cleared the last Shiyu 17 in only 4 minutes. If Caesar clears it in 3 minutes I don't really care. Now if they buff Shiyu enemies to the point that I HAVE TO CAESAR to clear in 5 minutes, that will be fucking annoying. That said Jing Yuan can still 3 Star MOC with 4 Stars, so I don't expect my Ellen and Zhu Yuan teams to not be able to clear anytime soon
@@Hhhh22222-wPowercreep doesn't just mean new character hits harder or supports better and that's it. Now they have to make harder enemies so they don't trivialize content. So now older characters have an even worse time with clearing content. This makes people feel forced to get a character they might not even like just to clear And now because the company wants them to spend on more characters not just use this one character for everything they have to do that for almost every character Now they have to make harder enemies. It's just a continuous cycle that makes a lot of people unhappy because now they have to spend more for characters they might not even like just to keep up with content, to get characters they actually want but actually can't get because they spent it on someone else to clear the content. They could save but they will get less rewards because content left them behind with their weaker characters. Having a bunch of "mid" or balanced characters means the difficulty is healthier and people can actually play the characters they actually like.
@@hyuugasora4031 They are 100% going to do that anyway. In a few months, if players are happy with their teams and don't feel the need to buy new heroes, mihoyo gets less money. If they pressure players into wanting new heroes because they content is getting harder, they get more money. It's a f2p game so stuff like this is sadly unavoidable.
@@hyuugasora4031 obviously I know that, it's a gacha game and I've played them since I was 13, but we're tallking about support here, and Caesar will literally be the ONLY option for months, so far everyone can pretty much clear SD with no shielder, same with the other new game mode as long as you can dodge you technically dont need a shielder, and no, you dont have to spend more, since Caesar will be meta for months even if she gets powercrept itll be months later and even then she will still be good, why? Cause she was broken in the first place, broken units lasts longer than mid units, but again if you need shielders, we got Seth and Ben, who are likely to feature on many more banners in the future, in fact both my Sou and Ben are at m6 and I'm f2p on this game, ofc you dont need them to be m6 to be good enough
People are worrying too much for power creep. The game has barely been out for 2 months. We can probably reallistically talk about power creep, once every single category of agent has at least 2 agents, example being , Qingyi and Anby. And that will take a long while
This video was what i needed as a new gacha gamer. I was kinda trying to look past "powercreep" but this has helped me to acually do it. Especially your point on ellen/miyabi cause i have Ellen and tbh i like the feel of Ellen and the whole shark Look so much, wich made me think about my Plans for pulling thx.
While yes Caesar isn't powercreep since she's the first limited defense unit, as you said she's "the baseline" which is somehow more terrifying because you gotta wonder if this is the base then what kind of insanity will come after her ?
Hoyo loves to have their cake and eat it too, creating a perception of power creep while not actually creating any content that "weaker" characters can't clear. Like, that's the trick! Make it feel like there's powercreep to get the whales to spend, while not actually lose players to the negative effects. It's clearly been extremely lucrative!
@@AverageLuckGamer also like, am I crazy or is nothing in zzz actually all that hard? I've died a few times but it was because I was doing stuff I wasn't ready for. I feel like if I did whale and got everything to max power I'd just straight up stop enjoying the game, Lol
@@devtesla I think it's plenty hard, especially when they cram multiple Elites and Boss enemies into a tiny space that limits your ability to dodge and do ranged attacks. That said, you can brute-force just about anything, so P2W is rewarded. If the game just stopped there I'd have quit playing already. What keeps me coming back is that if you can't afford P2W, skills building is also rewarded.
They don't even have to do anything, it's the community that does it to themselves. One look at the HSR community and you see how rampant this fake notion is, because people are plain clueless about it.
For me power creep is always part of live service game and if it's going to put you off from the game then I really don't know what to tell you. Don't spend beyond comfort for any character no matter how much you like them, try to enjoy them while they're relevant, and either move on when the new shiny toy comes out or accept that the new thing is better but you still love the older thing I'm not pulling qinyi because I love Anby. Qingyi is her direct and better replacement but I'm still enjoying Anby just the same
I've never felt the "1.0 Pressure" with other Hoyo games until ZZZ. I was pretty relaxed in Genshin and skipped Seele in Star Rail, I think it's a testament to how appealing ZZZ's characters are (to me specifically at least) that I legitimately feel every limited character is desirable in some form or another, whether through gameplay or aesthetics!
Lycaon subscribe made me audibly giggle 👌 Agree with your take for the most part, except that Hoyo has shown it is more willing to up the ante when it comes to introducing OP characters the last year or so. In Genshin, but especially in HSR, which is a power creep fest. I guess that’s more typical for turn-based games, because there’s only so much you can do with a unit, where in Genshin and ZZZ there’s more to gain when it comes to gameplay and how a unit ‘feels’ to be played. Jane might not necessarily output more damage than my Ellen Joe and ZY, but she sure as hell feels better gameplay wise than the former. I don’t know, I expect at least some power creep in this game, but don’t worry about it too much. It’s a gacha game after all, even if our units don’t get power crept, we will want to play new units at some point anyway.
Realisticlly a pve style gacha will never have a power creep too severe and even more with a ARPG like this one (also i need take your luck for a bit for Ceaser TYVM)
Interesting tactic to say "Genshin doesn't have power creep because standard banner characters are still useable" while showcasing gameplay exclusively using recent limited 5☆s who are largely responsible for the power creep argument especially Neuvillette.
Star rail's MoC has been buffed several times since its release, most enemies have around 3x the amount of health they had before, with built teams, I could clear everything, now I feel that only the new, overpowered characters can clear all of MoC...
Yep, it sure has, and people are still clearing it with 1.x characters in their teams. Because new sets, increased relic quality, and (importantly for Hoyo games) new supports and synergies keep old characters relevant. For God's sake Seele, the very first limited, is top tier in an AOE focused game mode when she's single target..
@@Viryn272 TBF Seele is an Erudition character in disguise with the amount of extra turns she gets, oh boy, would you look at the time, its Seele's turn
That's because HSR is a RPG where stats are all, your gameplay comes down to "How much do these characters synergize with each other to gain buffs and debuff the enemies as much as possible?" There's no mechanical skill required, and thus new units come down to "Hey I can debuff/buff/dps better!!" Instead of "I'm harder to master, I take less field time, I have fun distinct gameplay" 💁
Its a weakness check.You just cant bring whoever you like and bruteforce it unlike before. Look at blade for exemple everyone said the guy was finished but the guy can clear moc 12 in 2 to 3 cycle. Took me 7 when the enemy didnt have the wind weakness
In HSR, they invalidated previous investments and got away with it because the game is still successful. I expect them to do the same here-and maybe even push it further-to see just how much they can milk their player base.
Power creep will start happening when actual S-rank support agents are released. While premium characters like ZY, Ellen, and Qingyi (and soon Jane) have shown the current ceiling, they’re limited by their supporting cast. Nicole and Lucy are pretty good right now, and Soukaku is insane, but they’re only A rank agents. S rank supports will probably be way more broken and while power creep may not be a thing, I feel like there’s going to be wide gaps in Shiyu times in terms of teams that do or don’t have those specific supports
thank you man, I think people are just really really anxious about the future of the game but I'm chilling. let's take this game slow and steady everybody.
Going by genshin , a lot of old chars will get a facelift through sets , type of content and even newer character archetypes. I havent played much HSR recently. Trust me I still use klee and ayaka all the time and they work just fine. Besides in this game inherent skill and roles play a huge part. Even the typical dps units and supports are categorically different from each other. Unless you wanna hit 40 million in one rotation in inferno reap , you should be good diversifying your roster as shiyu is pretty easy ( for now )
In GI from 2.0 on-ward, the powercrept has reduced a lot. Zhongli, Hu Tao, Xiao, Ayaka,... still can be used well even when recently good characters released (Alercinno, Neuvillete,...). I think HYV will release characters that buff old character to resolve this "powercrept" issue in the future (like Furina and Clorinde good with Qiqi, or Xianyun for Diluc and Xiao, or Shenhe for Ayaka,...), making players that enjoy using old characters pulling for them.
i had to quit hsr because i pulled waifu over meta and the gameplay just became tedious with enemies too strong and it doesnt feel satisfying not being able to clear the challenges. then i had to use currency to get characters i dont even like. that's the real danger of power creep, it makes you not have fun playing the characters you like.
Genshin is really good with handling powercreep, but hsr is quite abysmal with some old units being completely unusable. With ZZZ being a hybrid between both, I expect there to be a middle ground with powercreep where the content will be easy enough for old units, but it might be easier with strong units
Who's unusable? The only limited unit I'd consider bad is Blade. The rest are still good. Just need more favorable content to shine. Far from unusable.
"Ew defense, skipped, heckin' muh perfect dodge, muh skills, easy" *Clank clank clank clank* GET BUFFED GET BUFFED GET BUFFED "Nooo, muh heckin' meta! Now I have to pull because my singular braincell is being stimulated by numbers"
I hope you're right, but it would've been alot easier for me to give devs some goodwill if they just not release "op" chars to begin with. That would be risky, sales wise, but if devs themselves don't believe in waifu factor and their gamedesign capabilities then why should I? Speed is everything when it comes to powercreep, and Miyabi will be a good incidication of where it goes, assuming she stays ICE ATK. If she's like 10-15% stronger than Ellen that's not too bad, but if it's a massive 30-50% difference AND endgame is getting considerably harder each patch then I'm out. I know many love to dunk on GI nowdays, but I really appreciate that my characters there are able to perform well for multiple years before it's finally time to bench them for good.
Tell me you've only played Hoyoverse gacha games without telling me you've only played Hoyoverse gacha games (challenge)? ;p More seriously the main reason I still always give Hoyo games a chance is that they're nowhere near the levels of other devs like Netmarble who lean so far into Power Creep that Limited S-Rank/Limited 5star units end up turning into F-Rank/1 Stars because they're not the new new "5 Star" tier with an exclusive level up system older characters can never access and have to be subjected to massive nerfs until they hit the "Recommended Power Level" (that requires 10+ copies of them ) due to having 1 button screen wipe abilities where one is always off cooldown. Even at its worst that has never really seemed to be how Hoyo rolls though, especially not for Zenless so far where I and presumably a lot of other people are doing basically fine on the grind towards 60 by having teams with generally 1 limited S Rank each at best. Way too early to start going "But what if this time they're going to release 'OP' characters that completely break the game balance in a way that means they have to make all content absolutely brutal in order to extract maximum profit out of the whales wallets" imo. Especially because Hoyo avoids PvP and thats generally the easiest place to incentivizing a powercreep structure, instead of uh, doing so by making fun to play characters that *checks notes* you can only invite out on dates if you've pulled them and only get to show off how much you love the character by using their halfways undressed pinup art on your player profile if you 6 star them on top of that?
@@krysbrynhildr I know that powercreep can be far, FAR worse, and I played gachas like that (admittedly not many), it's just... I dropped them all long ago. Yeah, the game isn't even halfway through its first year, but none of the decisions so far indicated that devs are afraid of overbuffing a character. With Qingyi they reverted stun multiplier last minute even though it was unnecessary and only made the gap between Ellen and Zhu premium teams bigger, now they are thinking of giving Caesar - a defence unit - all offensive buffs in the world. My belief is that if the team really is conscious of powercreep and don't want to rely on it to sell characters they should do a better job of balancing their characters, otherwise it will spiral out of control eventually. I don't think ZZZ will become the p2w shithole like ToF either way, but I'm sorry, just avoiding the worst case scenario isn't good enough for me. If it turns out to be another HSR (which has "not great, not terrible" powercreep situation), I'm not sure I'll stick around past the first year. But yeah, there's no point in giving it so much thought right now, we just have to wait and see how it's gonna be.
@@belugastyle480 Hsr powercreep is like genshin, old charachters still can perform and clear old content(people even do 4 star only clears) new characters are stronger but they arent necessary. Same in genshin some new charachters are a lot stronger but it doesnt invalidate old ones. People got mad at HSR because of the new game modes but because of them all characters are being viable
I will stick to the golden rule of pulling for whoever you like the most. That being Jane and followed by Miyabi. As someone who has Piper relatively well built, I am wondering if 2 anomaly teams will be a viable choice. Also calling Jane "mid" is pretty funny considering the assault numbers she is doing.
With qingyi ZY does like 55% more damage than her previous best team which is a bit insane. Powercreep is pretty normal and expected but its supposed to be slow and gradual, the current rate is a bit concerning ngl
If Caesar drops in her current state that 55% will drop to 1% Power creep is envitable I agree it’s the rate that should be. Cause if Caesar doesn’t get nerfed content will probably scale in difficulty faster which may make some characters not last as long as we would like
Qingyi will literally be our ONLY limited stunner for at least half a year, she HAS to be broken, heck the devs even made Anomaly and shielders be able to stun to mitigate the lack of stunners
@@tipithedhedhistar4132 sure but you forget that caesar and qingyi will be our only limited support units for at least half a year, so far the leaked schedule is correct, it will release based on faction order, which means around december is 1.4 when Miyabi releases which is the last known unit for now, if caesar isnt amazing then what's the point of having her in the game
@@Hhhh22222-w as someone who is guaranteed Caesar because I lost my prev 50/50 I think she's too broken. She's obvs gonna be the best defender, support and potentially stunner as well which is 3/4 roles in the game. Pretty hard to justify a unit like that
There's nothing slow about powercreep in this genre (or in most games), the moment it exists there's no going back unless it's a game with balance patches. It's instant and irreversible, the moment new content drops older things become obsolete. When this is not the case, powercreep simply doesn't exist. This is a mistake people make because the term is probably adapted from entertainment media, where each arc has to advance the stakes, then it gets loosely applied to games and it's a complete mess.
Wait who the heck said you’re a shill? 😂 you’re not trying to overhype every banner and glaze over characters with fluff and glitter saying click bait shit like “THEY ARE SO OP” or “THEY BREAK THE META!?!?” Literally every hsr tuber that straight up shills for every banner being a must pull and gives no actual criticism. I think you’ve been objectively sound with your reviews and takes. Here is hoping for your channel’s continued growth and success 🎉
I am new to gacha games, so I really can't say what it's like in Genshin or HSR, but I feel that one shouldn't worry about powercreep too much because of the skill-based nature of ZZZ. No 5-star character is going to "win" you Shiyu Defense floors just because you got them because you need actual mechanical skill to clear content. Example: the teleporting etherial with a blade for an arm. Sure, Zhu Yuan is going to help you kill it faster because it has Ether vulnurabily, but if your hands grow out of your ass and you can't dodge it's moves, learn it's attack patterns and have a set strategy on defeating it - you are going to have a bad time. Then again, I am new to gacha games, so maybe they'll introduce some game mode where numbers are so pumped up you'll need current limited S-ranks to clear content in the future, I don't know how this business works at all. All I know is I like Billy (and I honestly think he is a better character than Nekomata...at C6 that is) and so far my experience with DMC has let me clear this game's content with relative ease. P.S. I wish Hoyo would let you choose battle music in Shiyu. I'd pick Belobog Industries theme and never turn it off
For me, the biggest selling point that keeps me coming back to play is exactly that skills building is rewarded. I'm much more impressed by an M0 Anby, Nicole, Billy team clearing Shiyu Defense than I am with M6 Ellen, Zhu Yuan, Qingyi. If MiHoYo screws that up and makes the most fun new content strictly P2W, I'm done. You know, they've been pretty responsive to player requests and that's an easy one to implement. Go ahead and request it on the next player survey. I'll do the same and lock in Jane's Undercover R&B music.
I honestly think is fine for a S Rank to Powercreep a A rank, and Anby is still very good. Same from Nekomata and Billy (that was released powercrept lol ) I think would be bad if they release another Rank S same archetype and Element so soon tho. So I think they might change Miyabi to Anomaly ice or even Electro DPS would still look good for her. They have so many combination to do that would be just dumb to repeat an archetype so soon.
I don't believe in any power creep videos until like a year into the game when you have units to compare to the launch units. How heavily the character may have fallen off if you like to look at a tier list. Yes, you can complete all content with 4* and launch characters but I also like looking at numbers and long term investments. My investments will normally come from support that will gradually improve a DPS that was there at launch or vice versa, maybe my Anby will have some sick synergy with this other unit. I don't doom with any of these videos since I'm used to team building and mostly selecting units that I strongly like and how helpful they'll be in the long run. If I kept playing HSR I would've long have summoned Sparkle for my Seele party and sat down forever until I see a new unit that can help my second party with Jingliu. I'm the kind of guy to wait for a rerun for a DPS or a unit that I like and helped me out greatly and summon their duplicate. Depending on the quality of life it brings. I'm a very low spender.
I agree. I think all the hype about unreleased agent X power creeping is like all the hype about unreleased agent X "breaking the meta." What meta? It's too early for an entrenched meta, the roster still has too many holes in it.
@@papacharlie-niner148 'Jane Doe changes anomaly.' 'Caesar just got buffed!' 'Early build for Burnice.' The list goes on for all these view farming they're easy to ignore when you know what to look out. I'll help out other players by listing more nonsense and videos you can easily ignore. -99.45% players don't know this tech -Only character guide you need -You're building your character wrong -Mei Ling destroys the meta -100% success rate at summoning 8 5* at once -Big yellow numbers that stack repeatedly I know I'm missing a few but these are easy to joke on.
@@Sadeyo1 Tbf, Nicole's alternate EX Specials aren't really explained properly in the game itself as far as I could see, and that was the only "99.45% of players don't know this tech" video I've watched so far myself. Specifically because I'd accidentally done the "Sit on Case" version before and wanted to find out about how to replicate it on purpose. So, its not an absolute science.
I'm so happy I don't have a fomo and meta mind. I'll use my fav characters for as long as I play this game and be happy, even if someone else stronger comes it's easy to skip and save for the next fav. A little thing on the Ceasar buffs, I look at Ben and Seth being 4 stars and easy to mindscape and those 2 are really good characters battle wise, why is there such an uproar for Ceasar? Shouldn't a limited character be really good out of the box? If mostly all she did was shield it would feel so lackluster, the others shield and buff pretty good
Caesar was good before the buffs. Now she is incredible. Pretty much best in slot in every team and only 1% worse than Qingyi in Zhu yuan teams. I think people are concerned at which new characters raise the power level of the game as hoyo in order to sell more characters will raise the difficulty of the content. For you who doesn’t have have a meta mindset it won’t matter at all lol. So you will be fine regardless it’s the best way to play the game especially to save money
The problem is the current iteration of Caesar being the best damage support, best defensive support and the best stunner while also being the most versatile character in the entire roster
Also, Anby is the worst stunner in the entire game. Felt scammed once I upgraded her so much, only to get Qingyi and watch her stunlock everything in the game 3 times faster with only half of the investment.
I have definitely seen power creep in other Hoyo games, particularly Genshin when I pulled Navia and Neuvilette and they made my other DPS characters mostly obsolete (Hu Tao seems to have survived but she's harder to make work than the character that gives herself *invulnerability*). But... That's fine? I don't *want* Hoyo to make characters that are the same or worse than the ones I have, that sounds like a Dehya situation. I don't want a Dehya situation. I'm happy with the characters slowly getting better over time and the content slowly getting more challenging. And lol at people who are complaining about power creep when we don't even have a character in each role&element.
Nah, the problem is stamina. You just need better gear and maxed out characters for Shiyu. The rest is whether or not you have the skill to use your characters to their maximum.
@@Luna-1re powercreep isnt always present when clearing main story and hollow zero but i get your point. Im only expressing that people might think they cant clear other stages other than shiyu defense
@accompolice4694 I kinda mean that people only have problems with powercreeping when it comes to end game content like Shiyu Defense like you said. It's true that there's no need to worry about it in casual playthrough if there're actually people worrying about that. But I feel like most of the time people complain about powercreeping, it involves these end game modes where it favors new characters and keeps making older ones irrelevant.
I’m an Ellen joe main and I stand by it. When Miyabi drops I’ll still use Ellen with her team. Just gives me more flexibility to share another Ice dps in another team.
Your definition of powercreep is off mate. When a new shock DPS releases that does everything the old shock DPS does but better, that’s powercreep. Just like how Piper is getting powercrept by Jane. They WONT work well on a team together btw. The point is if you happened to have built Piper and then pull Jane Doe, there’s no reason to play Lucy anymore bc she serves the same role but does everything better. Exception is using her on a different team
Exactly, after getting Jane I don't even WANT to make a secondary team for Piper, the rat made the spinny girl feel completely useless not only numbers wise but just the general gameplay loop. Piper feels like ass to play once you try Jane lmao
kinda weird feeling witnessing the Jane VS Caesar argument between every1 i started saving poly fully expecting that i would miss out on an insane Anomaly DPS so i can have the S-rank that really clicked with me. Caesar was gonna be the weird pick that most people didnt like (kinda like Argenti in HSR) and that was that. now it looks like the roles keep switching between whos the 'INSANE 1MIL DPS WHOAG' character haha
I specifically skipped Ellen because Zhu Yuan is actually good with Nicole and Anby, the idea of having a team comprised mostly of the free characters they gave us really enticed me. Also in terms of Genshin Impact the older characters have held up well especially the 4 stars from the beginning of the game that are still meta to this day. My best team is a Noelle comp that I just invested a lot of time in. Games like Genshin are often more about the investment you put into a character than the characters itself.
I think Hoyo is just gonna force you to roll new elements, cause resistances are no joke in this game, the anomally and daze build up are also effected by them and then force you to roll new supports for your teams. The hp in the shiyu defense is gonna continue to grow like in all Hoyo other games and without new supports i think your A ranks or even S ranks are gonna struggle. And they can always implement a new mode like they did in HSR which promotes only a certain class of characters (erudition for pf) to force you to roll, cause you know - polychromes. Only time will tell if for example Ellen\Lycaon\Sokaku will still be able to clear the last sd floor in about a year from now
That's my guess as well. I expect a new mode to come along that is gatekept by element resistances. Maybe bosses will be resistant to two attributes a piece. Like imagine the Twin Marionettes, except one is resistant to Physical & Ice and other is resistant to Electricity & Fire. And they can still resurrect each other, but we can also tag out to a second team.
people just needs to start defining their definition of powercreep before discussing it. is it old premium units not being able to clear content? or is it old premium units being WAY weaker than the new ones
If you have two things and they do the same thing but one of them does it better, that is powercreep. You can use the weaker one to clear content. But if you have both why would you use the other? It's not that complicated.
I think the worry about powercreep in zzz stems from hoyo releasing characters with similar role and element early from release. Even so from what I’ve seen from the devs they seem to really care about the longevity of the game so I too trust them atm.
the only thing that matters in the game rn is the enemy's weakness and resistance, but things like these can be overcome even with Billy... S-rank limited is when you want do draw below minute on the highest end game level you can... with a full build Billy? you do it in one minute
To be honest with you, there is really no powercreep, but only fear of missing out (FOMO). Like, as the F2P player who used Anby this entire time and got Qy recently (I really like her character and her special character story is a really nice addition). Both of them have their own role and both of them also add more variety. Like, Qy/Lycaon/Corin team is a thing now, which I really REALLY like to use myself. If I would have been using Anby instead of Qy there, then it would have felt iffy. And so is vice versa. Qy really won’t fit into Anby/Nicole/Billy team instead of Anby, because Qy lacks that burst stun and insane energy regen via perfect dodges (which Anby has with her signature w engine).
Your opening point is insanity she breaks down class differences. Why bring a stunner when Ceasar why bring a support when Caesar why bring Seth in a anomaly team when Caesar. Caesars buffs are universally better than s ranks in their niche. She doesnt just creep cause she's a new 5 star defender she creeps everything we've seen so far in current state of beta. She should be nerfed.
That's what I'm thinking. It assumes she's is as good as people say, but taking that at face value, if a character can realistically fill the roles of what normally would require 3 or 4 other characters to do, then she is a bit broken. Even if you don't need her it is flattening the interesting decisions that you make in the team building process.
I don’t think we’ll really know what the state of power creep is going to look like in Zenless until we see out first limited S-Rank support characters. I feel like Hoyo would be silly to make a dps that isn’t at least viable for end game content, but I think Hoyo absolutely would release a limited support that blows the others out of the water.
if you play Hoyoverse games you will know that the thing that clear contents in their game are not new S rank characters BUT those stats on the disks you painfully farmed. With good enough resource, even the A tier will be able to clear all contents. But even knowing all these stuffs, you will still give into pulling. That is what MAKE them what they are today. Their character design, drip marketing, and storytelling are just INSANELY too good.
I will say the story is a big pull for me in this particular game. The characters all feel really well fleshed out and you generally get to spend a decent bit of time with most of them (well except the several who you can't hang with yet like Lucy, Piper, Soukaku). I'm fine not pulling for Qingyi but I think she's funny and hope I someday get her to see her dialogue options and stroy events.
adding what makes the best support in the game into the best def unit and doubling her shield power is 100% something to worry about if u dont even care about geting her u should atleast worry about the charcter u invest in , u dont want to go lvl 60 sokaku and invest in her core and skills just for her to get power creep by not even a better support but by the best defense unit in the game , also if the rateup S rank defense unit gone give 1000 atk , how much do we expect from the next rateup support
people are so scared of powercreep, when the game hasnt even been out for 3 months!! just get what agents you like, and if you miss out, just wait for the banner to rotate back
I've been pretty impressed with the balance in the game so far, so I'm not super worried. The fact that every standard banner 5 star could be considered worthwhile to build is already so huge. Still sucks to lose a 50/50 but at least you get a decent unit and not useless garbage like Qiqi or Yanqing.
My take on the creator preview deep dives is not that Jane is mid but rather that Seth is so good that he makes everyone else on the banner look bad. I'm seeing a growing number of players saying they will pull on Jane's limited banner mainly to get Seth, whether or not they get Jane also.
As f2p, I find I am literally enjoying every limited character that hoyo brings. Even though jane doe looks promising and fun, I already have zhu yuan and ellen team. So I find it not hard to skip ANY BANNER because I believe i will enjoy every new limited character as they for sure be banger. As long as i can clear content.. I am fine. Not being able to clear content pursuing your favourite character is no fun. Until zhu yuan and ellen becomes "weak", i'm skipping as F2p. EZ
I’d say Genshin’s resistance to powercreep can be attributed to having both a stagnant endgame and a in-depth combat system. In ZZZ, teambuilding is more linear, and less units are needed per team. Old units won’t die immediately, but I wouldn’t bet that the game will dodge powercreep for as long.
Based on playing HSR, I know that sometimes having their signature weapon is "strongly advised." It might not be enough to just roll for the S rank character and simply slap on an A rank W-Engine. You might be in for a disappointment. And some S ranks only really shine after 1 or 3 dupes. 🤷
I feel like YT videos often blow this way out of proportion. Like with most games, that's just to fet your attention and rarely actually means much. However the game can be cleared with Corin, so that's what I did
The powercreep on most game is stop play the game for years and miss all the freebie they gave you. When you comeback usually mean you need to grind again similar to new player for the least.
Jane was fun in the side story, but she doesn't quite fit with my gameplay style and current team composition goals. I'm a lot more interested in getting Burnice and Caesar because the SoC are massive goofballs in general and they look to be a lot of fun so far. I definitely need to start looking into alternate elemental teams though haha...
As long as i can use Qingyi, Jane and seth for most of the future Then im chill Also im still Livid that i got 2 stupid cats and 1 qingyi when i was hoping for a better cinema on qingyi
I'm actually hoping for power creep, and a lot of it. I'm someone with the reflexes of an old man and I'm painfully aware that I'm not gonna be able to handle the harder content in this game. So even if I want to play this game, I'll have to uninstall it eventually when I hit my skill ceiling. The only thing that can help are very overpowered characters.
You don't need powercreep for that, you just need money. M6 everyone on your team and max out their gear by whaling. You can even do it low spend, it just takes much longer.
Even if they aren’t good enough at m0 to clear end game content, if you play long enough to get to endgame content you probably will get some mindscapes in the process and make your free characters as good as or better than some m0 S ranks. And yea Jane being mid didn’t age well lmao but can’t pull em all tbf. If I was playing when Ellen Zhu Yuan and Qingyi were released I would have had to sell organs for tapes to get Jane
Claiming 60 pulls as average luck feels like I’ve been spit in the face lol Across the 3 big hoyogames I’ve definitely pulled 72-87 for nearly every 5*/S-Rank
Both Genshin and Star Rail 100% have had powercreep. For Genshin, a lot of Fontainian characters have powercrept previous ones; if you have Arlecchino there's no point in using Hu Tao or Yoimiya and if you have Neuvilette there is no reason to use Tartaglia or Ayato just to name 2 characters. HSR has also had powercreep and a lot faster than Genshin where it took 3-4 years for powercreep to become a major thing. Acheron and Firefly have just left the previous DPS's in the dust while being usable in almost every situation thanks to Omni-Toughness break and Weakness Implant respectively. I do think ZZZ will survive without powercreep for longer than HSR and the Additional Ability mechanic is a theoretically excellent way to limit powercreep so long as Hoyo lets it and doesn't give Zhu Yuan/Qingyi/Jane Doe type conditions to every limited 5-star.
Ni 3 meses tiene el juego y ya hay personas que se preocupan por el PowerCreep? Me parece muy apresurado pensar en ello, y más aun cuando el juego tiene mucho potencial por explotar y explorar. ZZZ es mi primer juego del HoyoVerse y hace poco comencé con el Star Rail y si algo me queda claro es que aun con todas las criticas que hayan tenido los desarrolladores en su pasado, han demostrado tener el genuino interes de mantener sus juegos bien balanceados permitiendo que la comunidad F2P tenga una buena experiencia de juego sin dar la imagen de solo querer estar exprimiendo las carteras de aquellos a los que no les duele gastar dinero en el juego sacrificando el gamplay en el camino. Por eso generalmente no hago caso a las comunidades o creadores de contenido que se van con titulares faciles como "You should pull this banner", "This PJ will be Op", "This PJ will change all the meta", "You'll regret if don't pull for this incoming unit" y muchas otras, asi que solo disfruto de los juegos por lo que son, juegos.
The difficulty lvl for the current shiyu defense 7 floors is just way too easy for players that have a decent investment into their dps. Just you wait until they release floor 89101112 shiyu defense, when bosses are lvl80 and 90. The clear time of qingyi vs anby, ceasar vs ben, limited S rank vs standard will be way more obvious by then. Powercreep exists in all hoyoverse game in one form or another, personal experience from a player that played all their games since honkai 3rd.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Hoyo doing me dirty putting Caesar and Burnice right after Jane’s banner 😭
the pain is real...
Real
I know right!? What's worse is that the three of them would be a really good team, now we're going to have to pass on one of them.
*smiles painfully for Jane’s pity*
Do we know who is coming first tho? Cesar or Burnice?
Powercreep isn't real, but fomo for sure is. That and the pretty waifu png /j
Remember that gacha is a marathon, not a sprint. You won't get everything right away, but you will get most of what you want over time. Save up for reruns.
I'm curious though, how would the power creep that's already happened to lycaon be explained ? Both he and qingyi are S tier stunners and qingyi clearly outclasses him in every aspect.
@@talgrus3281 you answered your own question. Limited S rank are supposed to be better than standard S rank, or else them being limited wouldn't make much sense anyway
@wobblestone3148 yeah I know. I'm asking because maybe they had a perspective I hadn't seen.
Otherwise I can't agree with "power creep isn't real"
Power creep in Honkai Impact is insane, but only for one particular mode in the entire game, and you can still do good even with older characters. The only people truly affected by power creep are those that are very, VERY, competitive. And at that point you'll never beat anyone that spends a lot in the game. Hoyo has never, EVER, released content that cannot be cleared by free or trial characters.
Long may it continue.
Powercreep in PGR be like: new healer will outdps older dps to oblivion
@@eurekadiaz3771 PGR is kinda different though , you technically get one copy of every char as long as you play regularly.
@@eurekadiaz3771 PGR debut banners feature 100% rate up on the limited character AND for their weapon...
Clear moc 12 with only free characters
The real problem that needs to be addressed is that the characters are getting hotter and my pulls remaining are getting smaller 😢😂
Frfr going to have to pull put the card sooner or later
The Lycon > Like and subscribe combo was genius
I stole it from a comment. Shhh.
Your content is far above average! Thank you for your work!
Thank you!
His luck is average, his content is great!
This really feels like a reach. There will always be power creep. You don't have to care or let it affect you, but that doesn't mean it's not real.
Caeser is probably going to be the last character I pull for just because I like their design a ton, and I want an S rank of each category. Afterward, I'll sit out the banners until and save up for a character I REALLY enjoy.
Yeah that's fair, we don't have an S rank defense agent yet and she'll likely be very good.
She's likely to also be our ONLY limited shielder for at least half a year
With you on this one, I honestly just want the entire Sons of Calydon characters because they cool. No other faction really interests me besides Victoria and PubSec, just Corin and Rina, the only characters I like from that faction. And also Qingyi because she’s funny to me.
Zhu Yuan should get a physics buff as well
Jane can't keep on getting away with it
Maybe when we get walk mode for Zhu Yuan...
I think her walk will be the one from the trailer so she doesnt lose at all
ZY is literally still better than Jane though, Jello Zenless Zero gave an honest first impresson of her, check him out, while other CCs' :"OMG BIG NUMBER JANE BROKEN GYATTTTTT 1 JANEBILLION DMG!!!!" *thumbnail with Jane and big pp dmg number*
@@AverageLuckGamerI hope we do 😅
@@AverageLuckGamer they said they're working on being able to walk around the overworld as all characters for 1.3? I remember it being 1.3, could be 1.2 though. point is, they're gonna have to add a walk mode for all characters... I know one thing though, I aint using Ben to walk around the overworld no matter how much I like his personality
I'm a normal person, i see average luck gamer post, i click
Every time.
Thank you so much for the support!
>:3
Maybe you're an average person
you are right on a few things, the first is that you really shouldn't be worried about powercreep because new options don't suddenly make older options worse at what they currently do well. So your dps isn't going to suddenly do less damage or be a worse unit if a higher damage unit comes out for instance.
Now regarding Caesar; the concerns about are not about powercreeping the A rank defenders, caesar's current beta iteration has the fastest daze buildup in the entire game (so she stuns faster than Qingyi does). She also gives a 1000 attack buff to your onfielder along with a generic damage increase buff (so she buffs more than any soukaku does).
So the powercreep discussion about Caesar is not about her being better than Defense characters, it's the fact that she is shaping up to not only be the best stunner in the game but also the best support in the game while being neither a stunner nor a support.
All of this without mentioning the fact that her additional ability is not only activated by members of her faction but by any character who can perform a defensive assist (meaning she works with literally every melee unit in the entire game).
So while on one hand, Caesar will not suddenly make other units worse by power creeping them, she is absolutely be looking to be the best unit in the game on pretty much every single team: The current Beta calcs have Caesar being stronger than Lycaon in an Ellen against neutral resistant enemies.
granted, i would be extremely surprised if her current iteration makes it to the live game, she will most definitely be nerfed in some way or another.
I rather her be broken, what's the point of a niche unit? Ben and Seth, do good enough shields, I'm playing the game to pull characters, if some characters get powercrept, so be it.
I rather have broken units to pull for than mid units that don't get pulled and just takes up space in my device's storage.
S cleared the last Shiyu 17 in only 4 minutes. If Caesar clears it in 3 minutes I don't really care. Now if they buff Shiyu enemies to the point that I HAVE TO CAESAR to clear in 5 minutes, that will be fucking annoying. That said Jing Yuan can still 3 Star MOC with 4 Stars, so I don't expect my Ellen and Zhu Yuan teams to not be able to clear anytime soon
@@Hhhh22222-wPowercreep doesn't just mean new character hits harder or supports better and that's it.
Now they have to make harder enemies so they don't trivialize content.
So now older characters have an even worse time with clearing content.
This makes people feel forced to get a character they might not even like just to clear
And now because the company wants them to spend on more characters not just use this one character for everything they have to do that for almost every character
Now they have to make harder enemies.
It's just a continuous cycle that makes a lot of people unhappy because now they have to spend more for characters they might not even like just to keep up with content, to get characters they actually want but actually can't get because they spent it on someone else to clear the content.
They could save but they will get less rewards because content left them behind with their weaker characters.
Having a bunch of "mid" or balanced characters means the difficulty is healthier and people can actually play the characters they actually like.
@@hyuugasora4031 They are 100% going to do that anyway. In a few months, if players are happy with their teams and don't feel the need to buy new heroes, mihoyo gets less money. If they pressure players into wanting new heroes because they content is getting harder, they get more money. It's a f2p game so stuff like this is sadly unavoidable.
@@hyuugasora4031 obviously I know that, it's a gacha game and I've played them since I was 13, but we're tallking about support here, and Caesar will literally be the ONLY option for months, so far everyone can pretty much clear SD with no shielder, same with the other new game mode as long as you can dodge you technically dont need a shielder, and no, you dont have to spend more, since Caesar will be meta for months even if she gets powercrept itll be months later and even then she will still be good, why? Cause she was broken in the first place, broken units lasts longer than mid units, but again if you need shielders, we got Seth and Ben, who are likely to feature on many more banners in the future, in fact both my Sou and Ben are at m6 and I'm f2p on this game, ofc you dont need them to be m6 to be good enough
People are worrying too much for power creep. The game has barely been out for 2 months. We can probably reallistically talk about power creep, once every single category of agent has at least 2 agents, example being , Qingyi and Anby. And that will take a long while
True, we're way too early
And not even so, anby is not only 4* but also FREE and she's like 90-95% of qingyi
This video was what i needed as a new gacha gamer. I was kinda trying to look past "powercreep" but this has helped me to acually do it. Especially your point on ellen/miyabi cause i have Ellen and tbh i like the feel of Ellen and the whole shark Look so much, wich made me think about my Plans for pulling thx.
Noice. Glad it was helpful!
loving your chilled down to earth covering of this game, a breath of fresh air in the "community"
Thanks for the support!
The lycaon and subscribe got me, but I'm already subscribed
Appreciate the support! Glad you liked it.
While yes Caesar isn't powercreep since she's the first limited defense unit, as you said she's "the baseline" which is somehow more terrifying because you gotta wonder if this is the base then what kind of insanity will come after her ?
Hoyo loves to have their cake and eat it too, creating a perception of power creep while not actually creating any content that "weaker" characters can't clear. Like, that's the trick! Make it feel like there's powercreep to get the whales to spend, while not actually lose players to the negative effects. It's clearly been extremely lucrative!
Actually so simple. I should have added this line to the video.
@@AverageLuckGamer also like, am I crazy or is nothing in zzz actually all that hard? I've died a few times but it was because I was doing stuff I wasn't ready for. I feel like if I did whale and got everything to max power I'd just straight up stop enjoying the game, Lol
I think you nailed it. Why do work on the actual game when you can achieve the same financial goal through perceived FOMO?
@@devtesla I think it's plenty hard, especially when they cram multiple Elites and Boss enemies into a tiny space that limits your ability to dodge and do ranged attacks. That said, you can brute-force just about anything, so P2W is rewarded. If the game just stopped there I'd have quit playing already. What keeps me coming back is that if you can't afford P2W, skills building is also rewarded.
They don't even have to do anything, it's the community that does it to themselves. One look at the HSR community and you see how rampant this fake notion is, because people are plain clueless about it.
For me power creep is always part of live service game and if it's going to put you off from the game then I really don't know what to tell you.
Don't spend beyond comfort for any character no matter how much you like them, try to enjoy them while they're relevant, and either move on when the new shiny toy comes out or accept that the new thing is better but you still love the older thing
I'm not pulling qinyi because I love Anby. Qingyi is her direct and better replacement but I'm still enjoying Anby just the same
Great Take
I never been more subscribed, my guy
And here ya go, a big thumb up for ya
I've never felt the "1.0 Pressure" with other Hoyo games until ZZZ. I was pretty relaxed in Genshin and skipped Seele in Star Rail, I think it's a testament to how appealing ZZZ's characters are (to me specifically at least) that I legitimately feel every limited character is desirable in some form or another, whether through gameplay or aesthetics!
Lycaon subscribe made me audibly giggle 👌 Agree with your take for the most part, except that Hoyo has shown it is more willing to up the ante when it comes to introducing OP characters the last year or so. In Genshin, but especially in HSR, which is a power creep fest. I guess that’s more typical for turn-based games, because there’s only so much you can do with a unit, where in Genshin and ZZZ there’s more to gain when it comes to gameplay and how a unit ‘feels’ to be played. Jane might not necessarily output more damage than my Ellen Joe and ZY, but she sure as hell feels better gameplay wise than the former. I don’t know, I expect at least some power creep in this game, but don’t worry about it too much. It’s a gacha game after all, even if our units don’t get power crept, we will want to play new units at some point anyway.
Realisticlly a pve style gacha will never have a power creep too severe and even more with a ARPG like this one (also i need take your luck for a bit for Ceaser TYVM)
haha you want my luck? I lost 9/10 of my last 5050's in genshin.
@@AverageLuckGamer emmmmmmmm i am taking your other subscribers luck
Interesting tactic to say "Genshin doesn't have power creep because standard banner characters are still useable" while showcasing gameplay exclusively using recent limited 5☆s who are largely responsible for the power creep argument especially Neuvillette.
They just released 4 5 Stars limited characters that are already powercreep from the standard banner. We will see the next powercreep a year from now.
my therapist: “miyabi powercreep isn’t real, it can’t hurt your ellen”
miyabi powercreep:
Star rail's MoC has been buffed several times since its release, most enemies have around 3x the amount of health they had before, with built teams, I could clear everything, now I feel that only the new, overpowered characters can clear all of MoC...
Yep, it sure has, and people are still clearing it with 1.x characters in their teams. Because new sets, increased relic quality, and (importantly for Hoyo games) new supports and synergies keep old characters relevant. For God's sake Seele, the very first limited, is top tier in an AOE focused game mode when she's single target..
@@Viryn272 TBF Seele is an Erudition character in disguise with the amount of extra turns she gets, oh boy, would you look at the time, its Seele's turn
just pull new harmony characters, they can make old dps shine
That's because HSR is a RPG where stats are all, your gameplay comes down to "How much do these characters synergize with each other to gain buffs and debuff the enemies as much as possible?" There's no mechanical skill required, and thus new units come down to "Hey I can debuff/buff/dps better!!" Instead of "I'm harder to master, I take less field time, I have fun distinct gameplay" 💁
Its a weakness check.You just cant bring whoever you like and bruteforce it unlike before.
Look at blade for exemple everyone said the guy was finished but the guy can clear moc 12 in 2 to 3 cycle.
Took me 7 when the enemy didnt have the wind weakness
In HSR, they invalidated previous investments and got away with it because the game is still successful. I expect them to do the same here-and maybe even push it further-to see just how much they can milk their player base.
Power creep will start happening when actual S-rank support agents are released. While premium characters like ZY, Ellen, and Qingyi (and soon Jane) have shown the current ceiling, they’re limited by their supporting cast. Nicole and Lucy are pretty good right now, and Soukaku is insane, but they’re only A rank agents. S rank supports will probably be way more broken and while power creep may not be a thing, I feel like there’s going to be wide gaps in Shiyu times in terms of teams that do or don’t have those specific supports
thank you man, I think people are just really really anxious about the future of the game but I'm chilling.
let's take this game slow and steady everybody.
Just a few more days before the Bakery! Opens 🍰
Going by genshin , a lot of old chars will get a facelift through sets , type of content and even newer character archetypes. I havent played much HSR recently.
Trust me I still use klee and ayaka all the time and they work just fine.
Besides in this game inherent skill and roles play a huge part. Even the typical dps units and supports are categorically different from each other.
Unless you wanna hit 40 million in one rotation in inferno reap , you should be good diversifying your roster as shiyu is pretty easy ( for now )
Reasonable take.
In GI from 2.0 on-ward, the powercrept has reduced a lot. Zhongli, Hu Tao, Xiao, Ayaka,... still can be used well even when recently good characters released (Alercinno, Neuvillete,...). I think HYV will release characters that buff old character to resolve this "powercrept" issue in the future (like Furina and Clorinde good with Qiqi, or Xianyun for Diluc and Xiao, or Shenhe for Ayaka,...), making players that enjoy using old characters pulling for them.
love your vids average luck tysm for all the banger content on this new game
Thanks so much for the support!
From 2:16 to 2:46 is a master class of transition bro. Very nice ♥
Ay, thanks man.
@@AverageLuckGamer ♥
i had to quit hsr because i pulled waifu over meta and the gameplay just became tedious with enemies too strong and it doesnt feel satisfying not being able to clear the challenges. then i had to use currency to get characters i dont even like. that's the real danger of power creep, it makes you not have fun playing the characters you like.
Genshin is really good with handling powercreep, but hsr is quite abysmal with some old units being completely unusable. With ZZZ being a hybrid between both, I expect there to be a middle ground with powercreep where the content will be easy enough for old units, but it might be easier with strong units
Who's unusable? The only limited unit I'd consider bad is Blade. The rest are still good. Just need more favorable content to shine. Far from unusable.
Bro that Lycon/ Like & Subcribe was way too smooth man.
Your voice is incredibly soothing.
I'll take that, even when I go all high for comedic effect?
"Ew defense, skipped, heckin' muh perfect dodge, muh skills, easy"
*Clank clank clank clank* GET BUFFED GET BUFFED GET BUFFED
"Nooo, muh heckin' meta! Now I have to pull because my singular braincell is being stimulated by numbers"
1:48 I still feel that the slap is out of sync with the audio...
I hope you're right, but it would've been alot easier for me to give devs some goodwill if they just not release "op" chars to begin with. That would be risky, sales wise, but if devs themselves don't believe in waifu factor and their gamedesign capabilities then why should I? Speed is everything when it comes to powercreep, and Miyabi will be a good incidication of where it goes, assuming she stays ICE ATK. If she's like 10-15% stronger than Ellen that's not too bad, but if it's a massive 30-50% difference AND endgame is getting considerably harder each patch then I'm out. I know many love to dunk on GI nowdays, but I really appreciate that my characters there are able to perform well for multiple years before it's finally time to bench them for good.
Tell me you've only played Hoyoverse gacha games without telling me you've only played Hoyoverse gacha games (challenge)? ;p
More seriously the main reason I still always give Hoyo games a chance is that they're nowhere near the levels of other devs like Netmarble who lean so far into Power Creep that Limited S-Rank/Limited 5star units end up turning into F-Rank/1 Stars because they're not the new new "5 Star" tier with an exclusive level up system older characters can never access and have to be subjected to massive nerfs until they hit the "Recommended Power Level" (that requires 10+ copies of them ) due to having 1 button screen wipe abilities where one is always off cooldown.
Even at its worst that has never really seemed to be how Hoyo rolls though, especially not for Zenless so far where I and presumably a lot of other people are doing basically fine on the grind towards 60 by having teams with generally 1 limited S Rank each at best. Way too early to start going "But what if this time they're going to release 'OP' characters that completely break the game balance in a way that means they have to make all content absolutely brutal in order to extract maximum profit out of the whales wallets" imo.
Especially because Hoyo avoids PvP and thats generally the easiest place to incentivizing a powercreep structure, instead of uh, doing so by making fun to play characters that *checks notes* you can only invite out on dates if you've pulled them and only get to show off how much you love the character by using their halfways undressed pinup art on your player profile if you 6 star them on top of that?
@@krysbrynhildr I know that powercreep can be far, FAR worse, and I played gachas like that (admittedly not many), it's just... I dropped them all long ago.
Yeah, the game isn't even halfway through its first year, but none of the decisions so far indicated that devs are afraid of overbuffing a character. With Qingyi they reverted stun multiplier last minute even though it was unnecessary and only made the gap between Ellen and Zhu premium teams bigger, now they are thinking of giving Caesar - a defence unit - all offensive buffs in the world. My belief is that if the team really is conscious of powercreep and don't want to rely on it to sell characters they should do a better job of balancing their characters, otherwise it will spiral out of control eventually. I don't think ZZZ will become the p2w shithole like ToF either way, but I'm sorry, just avoiding the worst case scenario isn't good enough for me. If it turns out to be another HSR (which has "not great, not terrible" powercreep situation), I'm not sure I'll stick around past the first year.
But yeah, there's no point in giving it so much thought right now, we just have to wait and see how it's gonna be.
@@belugastyle480 Hsr powercreep is like genshin, old charachters still can perform and clear old content(people even do 4 star only clears) new characters are stronger but they arent necessary. Same in genshin some new charachters are a lot stronger but it doesnt invalidate old ones. People got mad at HSR because of the new game modes but because of them all characters are being viable
I will stick to the golden rule of pulling for whoever you like the most. That being Jane and followed by Miyabi. As someone who has Piper relatively well built, I am wondering if 2 anomaly teams will be a viable choice. Also calling Jane "mid" is pretty funny considering the assault numbers she is doing.
With qingyi ZY does like 55% more damage than her previous best team which is a bit insane. Powercreep is pretty normal and expected but its supposed to be slow and gradual, the current rate is a bit concerning ngl
If Caesar drops in her current state that 55% will drop to 1%
Power creep is envitable I agree it’s the rate that should be. Cause if Caesar doesn’t get nerfed content will probably scale in difficulty faster which may make some characters not last as long as we would like
Qingyi will literally be our ONLY limited stunner for at least half a year, she HAS to be broken, heck the devs even made Anomaly and shielders be able to stun to mitigate the lack of stunners
@@tipithedhedhistar4132 sure but you forget that caesar and qingyi will be our only limited support units for at least half a year, so far the leaked schedule is correct, it will release based on faction order, which means around december is 1.4 when Miyabi releases which is the last known unit for now, if caesar isnt amazing then what's the point of having her in the game
@@Hhhh22222-w as someone who is guaranteed Caesar because I lost my prev 50/50 I think she's too broken. She's obvs gonna be the best defender, support and potentially stunner as well which is 3/4 roles in the game. Pretty hard to justify a unit like that
There's nothing slow about powercreep in this genre (or in most games), the moment it exists there's no going back unless it's a game with balance patches. It's instant and irreversible, the moment new content drops older things become obsolete. When this is not the case, powercreep simply doesn't exist. This is a mistake people make because the term is probably adapted from entertainment media, where each arc has to advance the stakes, then it gets loosely applied to games and it's a complete mess.
Я не знаю почему, но мне нравится смотреть каждое твоё видео! Продолжай в том же духе!
Thanks so much for the support! Спасибо
Wait who the heck said you’re a shill? 😂 you’re not trying to overhype every banner and glaze over characters with fluff and glitter saying click bait shit like “THEY ARE SO OP” or “THEY BREAK THE META!?!?” Literally every hsr tuber that straight up shills for every banner being a must pull and gives no actual criticism.
I think you’ve been objectively sound with your reviews and takes. Here is hoping for your channel’s continued growth and success 🎉
I am new to gacha games, so I really can't say what it's like in Genshin or HSR, but I feel that one shouldn't worry about powercreep too much because of the skill-based nature of ZZZ.
No 5-star character is going to "win" you Shiyu Defense floors just because you got them because you need actual mechanical skill to clear content. Example: the teleporting etherial with a blade for an arm. Sure, Zhu Yuan is going to help you kill it faster because it has Ether vulnurabily, but if your hands grow out of your ass and you can't dodge it's moves, learn it's attack patterns and have a set strategy on defeating it - you are going to have a bad time.
Then again, I am new to gacha games, so maybe they'll introduce some game mode where numbers are so pumped up you'll need current limited S-ranks to clear content in the future, I don't know how this business works at all. All I know is I like Billy (and I honestly think he is a better character than Nekomata...at C6 that is) and so far my experience with DMC has let me clear this game's content with relative ease.
P.S. I wish Hoyo would let you choose battle music in Shiyu. I'd pick Belobog Industries theme and never turn it off
For me, the biggest selling point that keeps me coming back to play is exactly that skills building is rewarded. I'm much more impressed by an M0 Anby, Nicole, Billy team clearing Shiyu Defense than I am with M6 Ellen, Zhu Yuan, Qingyi. If MiHoYo screws that up and makes the most fun new content strictly P2W, I'm done.
You know, they've been pretty responsive to player requests and that's an easy one to implement. Go ahead and request it on the next player survey. I'll do the same and lock in Jane's Undercover R&B music.
@@crappiefisher1331tf you mean by that beginning? You sound insane already
I honestly think is fine for a S Rank to Powercreep a A rank, and Anby is still very good. Same from Nekomata and Billy (that was released powercrept lol ) I think would be bad if they release another Rank S same archetype and Element so soon tho. So I think they might change Miyabi to Anomaly ice or even Electro DPS would still look good for her. They have so many combination to do that would be just dumb to repeat an archetype so soon.
I don't believe in any power creep videos until like a year into the game when you have units to compare to the launch units. How heavily the character may have fallen off if you like to look at a tier list. Yes, you can complete all content with 4* and launch characters but I also like looking at numbers and long term investments. My investments will normally come from support that will gradually improve a DPS that was there at launch or vice versa, maybe my Anby will have some sick synergy with this other unit.
I don't doom with any of these videos since I'm used to team building and mostly selecting units that I strongly like and how helpful they'll be in the long run. If I kept playing HSR I would've long have summoned Sparkle for my Seele party and sat down forever until I see a new unit that can help my second party with Jingliu. I'm the kind of guy to wait for a rerun for a DPS or a unit that I like and helped me out greatly and summon their duplicate. Depending on the quality of life it brings. I'm a very low spender.
I agree. I think all the hype about unreleased agent X power creeping is like all the hype about unreleased agent X "breaking the meta." What meta? It's too early for an entrenched meta, the roster still has too many holes in it.
@@papacharlie-niner148 'Jane Doe changes anomaly.' 'Caesar just got buffed!' 'Early build for Burnice.'
The list goes on for all these view farming they're easy to ignore when you know what to look out. I'll help out other players by listing more nonsense and videos you can easily ignore.
-99.45% players don't know this tech
-Only character guide you need
-You're building your character wrong
-Mei Ling destroys the meta
-100% success rate at summoning 8 5* at once
-Big yellow numbers that stack repeatedly
I know I'm missing a few but these are easy to joke on.
@@Sadeyo1 Tbf, Nicole's alternate EX Specials aren't really explained properly in the game itself as far as I could see, and that was the only "99.45% of players don't know this tech" video I've watched so far myself. Specifically because I'd accidentally done the "Sit on Case" version before and wanted to find out about how to replicate it on purpose.
So, its not an absolute science.
2:16 that was smooooooth brother
The only time I've ever seen "must pulls" are usually a rank characters that synergize with the main DPS and getting their dupes up.
I'm so happy I don't have a fomo and meta mind.
I'll use my fav characters for as long as I play this game and be happy, even if someone else stronger comes it's easy to skip and save for the next fav.
A little thing on the Ceasar buffs, I look at Ben and Seth being 4 stars and easy to mindscape and those 2 are really good characters battle wise, why is there such an uproar for Ceasar?
Shouldn't a limited character be really good out of the box? If mostly all she did was shield it would feel so lackluster, the others shield and buff pretty good
Caesar was good before the buffs. Now she is incredible. Pretty much best in slot in every team and only 1% worse than Qingyi in Zhu yuan teams.
I think people are concerned at which new characters raise the power level of the game as hoyo in order to sell more characters will raise the difficulty of the content. For you who doesn’t have have a meta mindset it won’t matter at all lol. So you will be fine regardless it’s the best way to play the game especially to save money
The problem is the current iteration of Caesar being the best damage support, best defensive support and the best stunner while also being the most versatile character in the entire roster
"There is no powercreep"
Qingyi:
Also, Anby is the worst stunner in the entire game. Felt scammed once I upgraded her so much, only to get Qingyi and watch her stunlock everything in the game 3 times faster with only half of the investment.
Ngl, the way the video title is worded, it sounds like Copium.
"There is no powercreep, trust me bro"
I have definitely seen power creep in other Hoyo games, particularly Genshin when I pulled Navia and Neuvilette and they made my other DPS characters mostly obsolete (Hu Tao seems to have survived but she's harder to make work than the character that gives herself *invulnerability*).
But... That's fine? I don't *want* Hoyo to make characters that are the same or worse than the ones I have, that sounds like a Dehya situation. I don't want a Dehya situation. I'm happy with the characters slowly getting better over time and the content slowly getting more challenging.
And lol at people who are complaining about power creep when we don't even have a character in each role&element.
Its not powercreep we should be worried about. The problem will be shiyu defense getting harder and their mechanics always favors newer characters
Nah, the problem is stamina. You just need better gear and maxed out characters for Shiyu. The rest is whether or not you have the skill to use your characters to their maximum.
Isn't this why people are being worried about powercreep though lol
@@Luna-1re powercreep isnt always present when clearing main story and hollow zero but i get your point. Im only expressing that people might think they cant clear other stages other than shiyu defense
@accompolice4694 I kinda mean that people only have problems with powercreeping when it comes to end game content like Shiyu Defense like you said. It's true that there's no need to worry about it in casual playthrough if there're actually people worrying about that.
But I feel like most of the time people complain about powercreeping, it involves these end game modes where it favors new characters and keeps making older ones irrelevant.
I’m an Ellen joe main and I stand by it. When Miyabi drops I’ll still use Ellen with her team. Just gives me more flexibility to share another Ice dps in another team.
Exactly! It just gives you more options if you want them but they aren't going to invalidate Ellen.
If I can s rank with the cunning hares A rankers in the late game, I'm pretty sure there's no power creep right now
Your definition of powercreep is off mate. When a new shock DPS releases that does everything the old shock DPS does but better, that’s powercreep.
Just like how Piper is getting powercrept by Jane. They WONT work well on a team together btw. The point is if you happened to have built Piper and then pull Jane Doe, there’s no reason to play Lucy anymore bc she serves the same role but does everything better. Exception is using her on a different team
How do you compare a fire support with a physical anomaly?
@@tranquangthang8897 ahh I meant piper
Exactly, after getting Jane I don't even WANT to make a secondary team for Piper, the rat made the spinny girl feel completely useless not only numbers wise but just the general gameplay loop. Piper feels like ass to play once you try Jane lmao
Average luck gonna try to go for her and her weapon since she’s so unique in her playability.
kinda weird feeling witnessing the Jane VS Caesar argument between every1
i started saving poly fully expecting that i would miss out on an insane Anomaly DPS so i can have the S-rank that really clicked with me. Caesar was gonna be the weird pick that most people didnt like (kinda like Argenti in HSR) and that was that.
now it looks like the roles keep switching between whos the 'INSANE 1MIL DPS WHOAG' character haha
I specifically skipped Ellen because Zhu Yuan is actually good with Nicole and Anby, the idea of having a team comprised mostly of the free characters they gave us really enticed me.
Also in terms of Genshin Impact the older characters have held up well especially the 4 stars from the beginning of the game that are still meta to this day. My best team is a Noelle comp that I just invested a lot of time in. Games like Genshin are often more about the investment you put into a character than the characters itself.
I think Hoyo is just gonna force you to roll new elements, cause resistances are no joke in this game, the anomally and daze build up are also effected by them and then force you to roll new supports for your teams. The hp in the shiyu defense is gonna continue to grow like in all Hoyo other games and without new supports i think your A ranks or even S ranks are gonna struggle. And they can always implement a new mode like they did in HSR which promotes only a certain class of characters (erudition for pf) to force you to roll, cause you know - polychromes. Only time will tell if for example Ellen\Lycaon\Sokaku will still be able to clear the last sd floor in about a year from now
Time will tell.
That's my guess as well. I expect a new mode to come along that is gatekept by element resistances. Maybe bosses will be resistant to two attributes a piece. Like imagine the Twin Marionettes, except one is resistant to Physical & Ice and other is resistant to Electricity & Fire. And they can still resurrect each other, but we can also tag out to a second team.
people just needs to start defining their definition of powercreep before discussing it. is it old premium units not being able to clear content? or is it old premium units being WAY weaker than the new ones
If you have two things and they do the same thing but one of them does it better, that is powercreep. You can use the weaker one to clear content. But if you have both why would you use the other? It's not that complicated.
I think the worry about powercreep in zzz stems from hoyo releasing characters with similar role and element early from release. Even so from what I’ve seen from the devs they seem to really care about the longevity of the game so I too trust them atm.
the only thing that matters in the game rn is the enemy's weakness and resistance, but things like these can be overcome even with Billy...
S-rank limited is when you want do draw below minute on the highest end game level you can... with a full build Billy? you do it in one minute
To be honest with you, there is really no powercreep, but only fear of missing out (FOMO).
Like, as the F2P player who used Anby this entire time and got Qy recently (I really like her character and her special character story is a really nice addition). Both of them have their own role and both of them also add more variety.
Like, Qy/Lycaon/Corin team is a thing now, which I really REALLY like to use myself. If I would have been using Anby instead of Qy there, then it would have felt iffy.
And so is vice versa. Qy really won’t fit into Anby/Nicole/Billy team instead of Anby, because Qy lacks that burst stun and insane energy regen via perfect dodges (which Anby has with her signature w engine).
Your opening point is insanity she breaks down class differences. Why bring a stunner when Ceasar why bring a support when Caesar why bring Seth in a anomaly team when Caesar. Caesars buffs are universally better than s ranks in their niche. She doesnt just creep cause she's a new 5 star defender she creeps everything we've seen so far in current state of beta. She should be nerfed.
That's what I'm thinking. It assumes she's is as good as people say, but taking that at face value, if a character can realistically fill the roles of what normally would require 3 or 4 other characters to do, then she is a bit broken. Even if you don't need her it is flattening the interesting decisions that you make in the team building process.
2:44 BOOOOO (clicks like button)
Exactly the reaction I wanted.
2:36
liked and subscribed just for this
I don’t think we’ll really know what the state of power creep is going to look like in Zenless until we see out first limited S-Rank support characters. I feel like Hoyo would be silly to make a dps that isn’t at least viable for end game content, but I think Hoyo absolutely would release a limited support that blows the others out of the water.
I'm actually so hyped for limited S rank support
The 1.6 Ruan Mei Kazuha support will be fire
if you play Hoyoverse games you will know that the thing that clear contents in their game are not new S rank characters BUT those stats on the disks you painfully farmed. With good enough resource, even the A tier will be able to clear all contents. But even knowing all these stuffs, you will still give into pulling. That is what MAKE them what they are today. Their character design, drip marketing, and storytelling are just INSANELY too good.
I will say the story is a big pull for me in this particular game. The characters all feel really well fleshed out and you generally get to spend a decent bit of time with most of them (well except the several who you can't hang with yet like Lucy, Piper, Soukaku). I'm fine not pulling for Qingyi but I think she's funny and hope I someday get her to see her dialogue options and stroy events.
The Lycaon bit payoff hit me like a bag of bricks.
adding what makes the best support in the game into the best def unit and doubling her shield power is 100% something to worry about if u dont even care about geting her u should atleast worry about the charcter u invest in , u dont want to go lvl 60 sokaku and invest in her core and skills just for her to get power creep by not even a better support but by the best defense unit in the game , also if the rateup S rank defense unit gone give 1000 atk , how much do we expect from the next rateup support
people are so scared of powercreep, when the game hasnt even been out for 3 months!!
just get what agents you like, and if you miss out, just wait for the banner to rotate back
I've been pretty impressed with the balance in the game so far, so I'm not super worried. The fact that every standard banner 5 star could be considered worthwhile to build is already so huge. Still sucks to lose a 50/50 but at least you get a decent unit and not useless garbage like Qiqi or Yanqing.
My take on the creator preview deep dives is not that Jane is mid but rather that Seth is so good that he makes everyone else on the banner look bad. I'm seeing a growing number of players saying they will pull on Jane's limited banner mainly to get Seth, whether or not they get Jane also.
As f2p, I find I am literally enjoying every limited character that hoyo brings. Even though jane doe looks promising and fun, I already have zhu yuan and ellen team. So I find it not hard to skip ANY BANNER because I believe i will enjoy every new limited character as they for sure be banger. As long as i can clear content.. I am fine. Not being able to clear content pursuing your favourite character is no fun. Until zhu yuan and ellen becomes "weak", i'm skipping as F2p. EZ
I’d say Genshin’s resistance to powercreep can be attributed to having both a stagnant endgame and a in-depth combat system. In ZZZ, teambuilding is more linear, and less units are needed per team. Old units won’t die immediately, but I wouldn’t bet that the game will dodge powercreep for as long.
Based on playing HSR, I know that sometimes having their signature weapon is "strongly advised." It might not be enough to just roll for the S rank character and simply slap on an A rank W-Engine. You might be in for a disappointment. And some S ranks only really shine after 1 or 3 dupes. 🤷
Lezzgooo Miyabi 🫡🫡🫡
I feel like YT videos often blow this way out of proportion. Like with most games, that's just to fet your attention and rarely actually means much. However the game can be cleared with Corin, so that's what I did
Chad move.
1:46 damn i love this community.
The powercreep on most game is stop play the game for years and miss all the freebie they gave you. When you comeback usually mean you need to grind again similar to new player for the least.
Jane was fun in the side story, but she doesn't quite fit with my gameplay style and current team composition goals. I'm a lot more interested in getting Burnice and Caesar because the SoC are massive goofballs in general and they look to be a lot of fun so far. I definitely need to start looking into alternate elemental teams though haha...
The only thing we are worried about is not having enough currency for waifus.
Asking the real questions.
1.46 i was spotted on screen ... I AM NOT SORRY
Are you... sniffboo?
@@AverageLuckGamer cough yes SNIFFA
As long as i can use
Qingyi, Jane and seth for most of the future
Then im chill
Also im still Livid that i got 2 stupid cats and 1 qingyi when i was hoping for a better cinema on qingyi
this aged very poorly after hoyo making yanagi a shock anomaly..
KURU KURU ~
somehow defender has a role like support with shield generator or it kinda all-rounder in zenless
I'm actually hoping for power creep, and a lot of it. I'm someone with the reflexes of an old man and I'm painfully aware that I'm not gonna be able to handle the harder content in this game. So even if I want to play this game, I'll have to uninstall it eventually when I hit my skill ceiling. The only thing that can help are very overpowered characters.
You don't need powercreep for that, you just need money. M6 everyone on your team and max out their gear by whaling. You can even do it low spend, it just takes much longer.
Even if they aren’t good enough at m0 to clear end game content, if you play long enough to get to endgame content you probably will get some mindscapes in the process and make your free characters as good as or better than some m0 S ranks. And yea Jane being mid didn’t age well lmao but can’t pull em all tbf. If I was playing when Ellen Zhu Yuan and Qingyi were released I would have had to sell organs for tapes to get Jane
Claiming 60 pulls as average luck feels like I’ve been spit in the face lol
Across the 3 big hoyogames I’ve definitely pulled 72-87 for nearly every 5*/S-Rank
60ish pulls for a 5 star is average for hoyo games.
Both Genshin and Star Rail 100% have had powercreep. For Genshin, a lot of Fontainian characters have powercrept previous ones; if you have Arlecchino there's no point in using Hu Tao or Yoimiya and if you have Neuvilette there is no reason to use Tartaglia or Ayato just to name 2 characters.
HSR has also had powercreep and a lot faster than Genshin where it took 3-4 years for powercreep to become a major thing. Acheron and Firefly have just left the previous DPS's in the dust while being usable in almost every situation thanks to Omni-Toughness break and Weakness Implant respectively.
I do think ZZZ will survive without powercreep for longer than HSR and the Additional Ability mechanic is a theoretically excellent way to limit powercreep so long as Hoyo lets it and doesn't give Zhu Yuan/Qingyi/Jane Doe type conditions to every limited 5-star.
Ni 3 meses tiene el juego y ya hay personas que se preocupan por el PowerCreep?
Me parece muy apresurado pensar en ello, y más aun cuando el juego tiene mucho potencial por explotar y explorar.
ZZZ es mi primer juego del HoyoVerse y hace poco comencé con el Star Rail y si algo me queda claro es que aun con todas las criticas que hayan tenido los desarrolladores en su pasado, han demostrado tener el genuino interes de mantener sus juegos bien balanceados permitiendo que la comunidad F2P tenga una buena experiencia de juego sin dar la imagen de solo querer estar exprimiendo las carteras de aquellos a los que no les duele gastar dinero en el juego sacrificando el gamplay en el camino.
Por eso generalmente no hago caso a las comunidades o creadores de contenido que se van con titulares faciles como "You should pull this banner", "This PJ will be Op", "This PJ will change all the meta", "You'll regret if don't pull for this incoming unit" y muchas otras, asi que solo disfruto de los juegos por lo que son, juegos.
Maybe,we re going to need a third team
i think this game is more skilled then power creep and knowing youre characters limits will set you on advantage
As someone who play opbr this powercreep isnt gonna hurt me
The difficulty lvl for the current shiyu defense 7 floors is just way too easy for players that have a decent investment into their dps. Just you wait until they release floor 89101112 shiyu defense, when bosses are lvl80 and 90. The clear time of qingyi vs anby, ceasar vs ben, limited S rank vs standard will be way more obvious by then. Powercreep exists in all hoyoverse game in one form or another, personal experience from a player that played all their games since honkai 3rd.
How is average luck gamer so cool
I literally got her on ten pulls. now I have 80 pulls saved for Burnice.