The best thing about the Lyman manual is that they use bullets from all manufacturers, rather than just one. And you are right - have several manuals for reference. For cast bullets, the Lyman cast bullet handbook is absolutely indispensable.
ReloadOC is the only reloading shop that matters. If you're not shopping at ReloadOC, then you're just not serious about reloading. Love your shop, Brian!
I have got at least 70+ reloading manuals to date, and still have at least 10 to go that I know of. And I have been gleaning a lot of knowledge from the front halves of these manuals. But I only use the newest editions from 19 bullet and/or powder companies to gather load data from.
In the Lee manual, on page 37, it states: "Bullets seated deeper than normal will reduce case capacity and increase pressure. This is not too critical for large rifle cases, but extremely important for pistol loads. Good load data specifies bullet seating depth or over all cartridge length. Do not seat the bullet to deep. On page 96, of the Lee manual, under the section of “The Latest Information On Pressure”, it states: "2) the extreme expansion (XTP and Gold Dot) handgun bullets have a large and deep nose cavity that makes them longer than a regular bullet of the same weight. This requires deeper depth resulting in higher pressure. Seating depth is very critical for handgun ammunition because of the small cases and large bores. ... … The usable volume of … … … the 45 ACP is 1.14cc. Seating bullets 1/16” deeper … .. … reduces the volume … 0.16cc for the 45 ACP. That’s ... ... ... a whopping 14% ... . This large volume reduction has an equally large effect on pressure that is made more critical because the maximum pressure for the 45 ACP is 1/3 of [plus 60,000 pound range as mentioned below. Keep in mind the 45 Colt working pressure is a mere 14,000 psi.] … On page 157, of Lee's manual under "Minimal Overall Length", It states: This is critical on most handgun cases. A small reduction in overall length can cause dangerous pressures because of reduced capacity caused by seating the bullet too deep. See details on page 96." On page 133, of the "Complete Reloading Guide", under "Loads For Handgun Cartridges", in bold font right under the heading it states: Loads for handguns ... with less case capacity ... when loading ... ... ... mere tenths of a grain of powder can make the difference between a good load and one that is dangerous. Approach the loading of handgun ammunition with these facts in mind." Plus on pages 88 thru 89, of the Lee manual, under "Signs Of Excessive Pressure" is a list of seven pressure signs and then the manual states the following: "It must be emphasized that these signs will not manifest themselves in ... low pressure rounds. These are signs of pressure in the plus 60,000 pound range. If you are loading for a gun designed to operate at 15,000 pounds pressure, you will most likely never find a loose primer because the gun would have blown up and spread the primer and gun parts over a wide area." And on page 158, in the section of “How To Read The Load Data”, under “XTP” it states : “Use these loads for the Hornady XTP, Speer Gold Dot, or Remington Golden Saber bullets. Now on page 270, of the Lee manual, under the “250 grain XTP” it gives load data with three different seating depths, because the data was taken from three different brand bullets, yet clumped together as if one. So if someone where to take the data developed for the shorter bullet and turn around and used it with the longer bullet they could very well raise pressures far above the 10% reduced starting charge weight. Especially if they use a case with smaller case capacity than that used in the development of the load data, as well as a hotter brand primer than that which was used to develop the data in the first place. Keep in mind that just changing the brand of primer can cause as much as a 2,000 psi rise in pressure alone, which can by itself swallow up the safety margin. Then throw in a case that has a reduced volume than the tested one and on top of all that seating the wrong bullet father in to the case, because it has a deeper hollow point and thicker cooper jacket, than what was used to developed the load data could easily displace the primer into one's own eye - so to speak. Or another way to put it would be as written in the book "Ammunition, Demystified", at the bottom of page 18, which says: "Use only the loading data published by the bullet manufacture! Substitution of loading data for equivalent weight bullets can get you into deep yogurt!" And I know for a fact that other manuals have stated not to switch brands of bullets even if they are of the same type. I would post them here if I had the time to wade through 30 different manuals to find where they spoke of such, but I am tired just having to have dug up the above and below. Head the warnings of reloading or not, but what ever you do try not to teach others to ignore them just because you might so choose. Again, the Richard Lee loading manual does not do pressure tests themselves, they only take test data from others that do and jumble it all together, of which they lose the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, as well as bullet brand. These are all important elements, as one should never take data made for one specific brand and type bullet and turn and use it with a different brand or type bullet. This is due to Brinell hardness and bearing surfaces can be different, as well as the shape can be slightly different with longer or shorter lengths, all of which can cause extremely high pressure issues. One should only use data straight from a reputable data source [see paragraph below] that does their own pressure testing which give the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, and most of all the brand of the type bullet used in developing the data. Each one of these elements that are changed is a compromise of which if all are compromised at the same time could very well add up to a recipe for disaster. First off, I am not implying that Lee plagiarized the data in their manual, just that they jumbled data from different sources together and lost key elements in the doing. And it has always been a given that one should use the starting loads and work their way up. This 10% reduction covers for smaller bore diameters, different lots of powder, different brand/lots of primers, and different brands of cartridge cases. These alone can take up that 10% relatively easy. Especially in pistol cartridges, as a little goes a long way in such small volume chambers. Lyman, Speer, Nosler, Sierra, Barnes, Swift, Berger, Norma, Lapua, VihtaVuori, Accurate, Western Powder, Hodgdon, or even Hornady reloading manuals are far better suited than Richard Lee's for gleaning load data from, as they all not only do their own testing but they all give the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, as well as the bullets brand and type for each load recipe. Again Richard Lee's manual throws out one of the carnal safety rules of "never use load data developed for one brand of bullet for another brand of the same style bullet". Keep in mind that it is always better to throw out Richard Lee's manual than any of the safety rules. But with all that said Richard Lee's reloading manual has a wealth of knowledge in the front half that makes the book well worth having. Just do not ignore the Cautions, Warnings, and Nevers there within.
Excellent advice and information. One point if I may add, with the Lyman manuals (esp. with those new to reloading) , they tend to stay on the conservative side of pressure with their load recommendations. I’ve also used multiple manuals to compare bullets of common weight, design and caliber to see variations in velocity from powder charge to powder charge of the same type. Lots of valuable data available from multiple manuals, and I dare say “No reloading manual is out of date!”
Reload OC, I am totally new to reloading, and I haven't made my first round yet, but I have bought the weigh scales, trickler, Lee dippers, caliper, bullet puller hammer, loading block, case lube, funnel, brass, bullets, primers, berry's bullet boxes, and chronograph thus far. Now I am getting the books to help me learn the knowledge end before buying powders. So any advise on books to get is appreciated. Would you know if Norma, Barnes, Sierra, or Nosler have pistol data? I have not order either the Barnes or Norma manuals yet, although I did order the Nosler and Sierra ones already. I also have gotten Richard Lee's 2nd 2020, Lyman 51st, Hornady 11th, Speer #15, Hodgdon 2023, Western Powder's 1st, The ABC's of Reloading 10th Edition, Ken Waters' Notebook by Ken Waters, and Pet Loads - Complete Volume - by Ken Waters. I also got Cartridges of the World 17th just for the history stuff in it. But if there is any other really good books that are valuable, I would like to add them to my library as well. Yes I know I still need to get a press and dies, and after acquiring the books, that is next on the list to get (while I am studying up on what powders to get).
The best thing about the Lyman manual is that they use bullets from all manufacturers, rather than just one. And you are right - have several manuals for reference. For cast bullets, the Lyman cast bullet handbook is absolutely indispensable.
ReloadOC is the only reloading shop that matters. If you're not shopping at ReloadOC, then you're just not serious about reloading.
Love your shop, Brian!
I have got at least 70+ reloading manuals to date, and still have at least 10 to go that I know of. And I have been gleaning a lot of knowledge from the front halves of these manuals. But I only use the newest editions from 19 bullet and/or powder companies to gather load data from.
Wealth of knowledge, thank you.
In the Lee manual, on page 37, it states:
"Bullets seated deeper than normal will reduce case capacity and increase pressure. This is not too critical for large rifle cases, but extremely important for pistol loads. Good load data specifies bullet seating depth or over all cartridge length. Do not seat the bullet to deep.
On page 96, of the Lee manual, under the section of “The Latest Information On Pressure”, it states:
"2) the extreme expansion (XTP and Gold Dot) handgun bullets have a large and deep nose cavity that makes them longer than a regular bullet of the same weight. This requires deeper depth resulting in higher pressure. Seating depth is very critical for handgun ammunition because of the small cases and large bores. ... … The usable volume of … … … the 45 ACP is 1.14cc. Seating bullets 1/16” deeper … .. … reduces the volume … 0.16cc for the 45 ACP. That’s ... ... ... a whopping 14% ... . This large volume reduction has an equally large effect on pressure that is made more critical because the maximum pressure for the 45 ACP is 1/3 of [plus 60,000 pound range as mentioned below. Keep in mind the 45 Colt working pressure is a mere 14,000 psi.] …
On page 157, of Lee's manual under "Minimal Overall Length", It states:
This is critical on most handgun cases. A small reduction in overall length can cause dangerous pressures because of reduced capacity caused by seating the bullet too deep. See details on page 96."
On page 133, of the "Complete Reloading Guide", under "Loads For Handgun Cartridges", in bold font right under the heading it states:
Loads for handguns ... with less case capacity ... when loading ... ... ... mere tenths of a grain of powder can make the difference between a good load and one that is dangerous. Approach the loading of handgun ammunition with these facts in mind."
Plus on pages 88 thru 89, of the Lee manual, under "Signs Of Excessive Pressure" is a list of seven pressure signs and then the manual states the following:
"It must be emphasized that these signs will not manifest themselves in ... low pressure rounds. These are signs of pressure in the plus 60,000 pound range. If you are loading for a gun designed to operate at 15,000 pounds pressure, you will most likely never find a loose primer because the gun would have blown up and spread the primer and gun parts over a wide area."
And on page 158, in the section of “How To Read The Load Data”, under “XTP” it states :
“Use these loads for the Hornady XTP, Speer Gold Dot, or Remington Golden Saber bullets.
Now on page 270, of the Lee manual, under the “250 grain XTP” it gives load data with three different seating depths, because the data was taken from three different brand bullets, yet clumped together as if one. So if someone where to take the data developed for the shorter bullet and turn around and used it with the longer bullet they could very well raise pressures far above the 10% reduced starting charge weight. Especially if they use a case with smaller case capacity than that used in the development of the load data, as well as a hotter brand primer than that which was used to develop the data in the first place. Keep in mind that just changing the brand of primer can cause as much as a 2,000 psi rise in pressure alone, which can by itself swallow up the safety margin. Then throw in a case that has a reduced volume than the tested one and on top of all that seating the wrong bullet father in to the case, because it has a deeper hollow point and thicker cooper jacket, than what was used to developed the load data could easily displace the primer into one's own eye - so to speak.
Or another way to put it would be as written in the book "Ammunition, Demystified", at the bottom of page 18, which says:
"Use only the loading data published by the bullet manufacture! Substitution of loading data for equivalent weight bullets can get you into deep yogurt!"
And I know for a fact that other manuals have stated not to switch brands of bullets even if they are of the same type. I would post them here if I had the time to wade through 30 different manuals to find where they spoke of such, but I am tired just having to have dug up the above and below.
Head the warnings of reloading or not, but what ever you do try not to teach others to ignore them just because you might so choose.
Again, the Richard Lee loading manual does not do pressure tests themselves, they only take test data from others that do and jumble it all together, of which they lose the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, as well as bullet brand. These are all important elements, as one should never take data made for one specific brand and type bullet and turn and use it with a different brand or type bullet. This is due to Brinell hardness and bearing surfaces can be different, as well as the shape can be slightly different with longer or shorter lengths, all of which can cause extremely high pressure issues. One should only use data straight from a reputable data source [see paragraph below] that does their own pressure testing which give the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, and most of all the brand of the type bullet used in developing the data. Each one of these elements that are changed is a compromise of which if all are compromised at the same time could very well add up to a recipe for disaster.
First off, I am not implying that Lee plagiarized the data in their manual, just that they jumbled data from different sources together and lost key elements in the doing. And it has always been a given that one should use the starting loads and work their way up. This 10% reduction covers for smaller bore diameters, different lots of powder, different brand/lots of primers, and different brands of cartridge cases. These alone can take up that 10% relatively easy. Especially in pistol cartridges, as a little goes a long way in such small volume chambers.
Lyman, Speer, Nosler, Sierra, Barnes, Swift, Berger, Norma, Lapua, VihtaVuori, Accurate, Western Powder, Hodgdon, or even Hornady reloading manuals are far better suited than Richard Lee's for gleaning load data from, as they all not only do their own testing but they all give the test barrel length, case brand, primer type and brand, as well as the bullets brand and type for each load recipe.
Again Richard Lee's manual throws out one of the carnal safety rules of "never use load data developed for one brand of bullet for another brand of the same style bullet". Keep in mind that it is always better to throw out Richard Lee's manual than any of the safety rules. But with all that said Richard Lee's reloading manual has a wealth of knowledge in the front half that makes the book well worth having. Just do not ignore the Cautions, Warnings, and Nevers there within.
Excellent advice and information. One point if I may add, with the Lyman manuals (esp. with those new to reloading) , they tend to stay on the conservative side of pressure with their load recommendations. I’ve also used multiple manuals to compare bullets of common weight, design and caliber to see variations in velocity from powder charge to powder charge of the same type. Lots of valuable data available from multiple manuals, and I dare say “No reloading manual is out of date!”
Reload OC,
I am totally new to reloading, and I haven't made my first round yet, but I have bought the weigh scales, trickler, Lee dippers, caliper, bullet puller hammer, loading block, case lube, funnel, brass, bullets, primers, berry's bullet boxes, and chronograph thus far. Now I am getting the books to help me learn the knowledge end before buying powders. So any advise on books to get is appreciated.
Would you know if Norma, Barnes, Sierra, or Nosler have pistol data? I have not order either the Barnes or Norma manuals yet, although I did order the Nosler and Sierra ones already.
I also have gotten Richard Lee's 2nd 2020, Lyman 51st, Hornady 11th, Speer #15, Hodgdon 2023, Western Powder's 1st, The ABC's of Reloading 10th Edition, Ken Waters' Notebook by Ken Waters, and Pet Loads - Complete Volume - by Ken Waters. I also got Cartridges of the World 17th just for the history stuff in it.
But if there is any other really good books that are valuable, I would like to add them to my library as well.
Yes I know I still need to get a press and dies, and after acquiring the books, that is next on the list to get (while I am studying up on what powders to get).
I have most of the reloading manuals. But I think the Lee manual is by far the best overall!
Good to know thanks!
Orange County... Deep behind enemy lines. I ran away to Idaho.
I have a Lyman, Lee, Hornady and caliber pacific manuals. Might get a couple more down the road but you can get information online also.
Get the Lee. Far and away the most data. I have all the big ones, but buy the Lee.
Thank you for being! My ReLoading GO TOOO! Guy!
Love your store, Thanks again!
As long as I live I would never throw out a reloading book ever
Noone should have only one reloading manual.
Oo shit i have too buy library too reload 😆
Thank for info
Good advice
Thank you very much. Good info.
Lyman, Lee and the Hodgdon annual.
Great shop Brian. Thanks for sticking it out and staying in the OC to keeps us going.
Let me know when you get those 90tnts in!😏
Notes or links in the description would be great 😉
Nice presentation and good info.
Thanks
Yes
Please send books on reloading.
Lol me too love reading through those books