I’ve been saying this for awhile. If they lose money they stop just like any other industry. And let’s be honest this is all marketing to make money. The “older better manuscripts” the “new discoveries” “better scholarship” etc is all just to make people buy them. St.Jerome translation the vulgate in 382 ish A.D. and the douay rheims reads almost exactly like th kjv. He had access to things we do not today and his scholarship and the kjv scholars were far superior to anyone today without a doubt.
@@terryhumberd7546 it's tough to stop buying the new editions when the NIV84 has been long out of print and only available mostly used from 3rd parties. Thankfully the NASB95 are still in print and going strong. Same for the NKJV.
I've used the NKJV all year and it is solid. I also like the CSB because they said they're done updating since the 2020 edition and if I remember right they said it would require new manuscripts being found.
Aside from the KJV and NKJV, Bible translations are starting to become like phones and computers where we need to upgrade every few years to keep up to date. The Word of God doesn’t need to be updated (at least not at this frequency).
I hope you guys eventually remember that the goal is to communicate Gods word , not stick with tradition You can keep original copies of archaic bibles on your book shelf . But if 100 new versions bring 100 new people to walk in Gods ways than it’s worth it
@@peterfox7663 thanks to all the backlash smh. Perhaps if they never announced that the 2016 edition would be their "permanent text edition" and kept it silent to themselves, there wouldn't have been any criticism for that decision. Who knows if it could have been another 20 years before they decide to update it again?
Love the ESV and was considering making it my go to translation but after watching this video I am sticking to the NKJV. Thanks Tim love watching your content ❤
I was raised in NKJV and KJV. When I got serious about studying the word of God I bought an ESV. As I read it through I found myself translating in my head back to NKJV. So I’ve moved back to NKJV.
The CSB was already nudging out the ESV for my favorite critical text to read along with my NKJV, this will probably help me nudge that along. I can go with once a generation updates, but every 5-7 is too much for me.
Oh, this went pretty much the same for me. A few years ago I was looking at bibles for both some Bible study and regular reading. While my church uses the *NKJV* I was seeing a lot of love for the *ESV* online so I checked it out and at the time it seemed like a 'sweet spot' to me for the sort of 'formal language' of translations like the N/KJV while it also was being praised for (allegedly) being very accurate. So I got a copy of the *ESV Archeology Study Bible* but around that time I also picked up a *CSB Everyday Study Bible*. At first I kind of thought the CSB was a bit basic and thought I preferred the ESV, but I've since come to have the CSB become one of my favorite translations. (I have really been wanting to get my hands on a nice *HCSB Study Bible* since I found out about it though, high hopes that I'll be getting one as a Christmas present this year, Lord willing, hehe!)
The CSB launched in 2017 and had its first update in 2020. Holman stated then that they reserve the right to issue updates, but that they had no intention of doing so again.
@@caseydbell that gives a peace of mind ty; I bought quite a few study bibles of this version and a great a great deal money on a Schuyler ESV. I love the net bible full notes edition too. I also think simply rewording is just another way of saying something rather than more accurate
I'll hazard a guess. It's like college textbooks. Tweak them just slightly, then force the students to buy the NEW edition. The professors keep their income stream alive! Rinse and repeat. It's an old money-making trick.
I've determined that I need a consistent translation. The KJV remains my primary text as many of my study resources use it. Modern translations are useful to help understand the KJV in areas where the words aren't as clear (such as Job 8:11 and the word flag) and in that regard the updates should not be a problem. The important factor here is that we remain students of the Word.
Updates are so frustrating, it’s hard to memorize verses knowing that they may change. Did I hear right that the NKJV will not have any updates? If so I may switch to the NKJV as my primary translation. Appreciate all you do, love these informative videos.
@@davidkelley8220I saw that the nkjv may update the footnotes but the text won’t be. I could be wrong so don’t quote me, that or they said they were not doing either the text or the footnotes and it’s stating the same.
Thankfully not an issue for me, just so very grateful we live in a society that has access to so many sound and wonderful translations. Happy to read any of them! Tinkering with the text is a non-issue as long as it doesn’t alter the infallible word of the Lord. There are brothers and sisters in the world who are certainly not as well off as those of us living in the west enjoying the freedom we do. Let’s not create waves where there aren’t any. 🇬🇧🇺🇸
I’m with you Pastor Tim. I love the NKJV. I’m in the NKJV, ESV, CSB and NLT just about every week. When I read the text from the NKJV my heart just sighs (in a good way). 😊
Pastor Tim I’m hanging onto my NKJV, my NASBs 95, 77 and I’ve even got a 73, my NIV 84 and my ESV 2001 and I’m not moving. I am really disappointed with gender neutral language in the Bible and especially changes to support cultural issues. You mentioned the gender inclusive language of the NRSV UE but there were other changes in that update to accommodate the culture. I do wonder about the motivation behind this. The Bible used to be the standard for Christians but with so many changes being made its authority is being eroded. This makes memorisation harder and if one only has a digital Bible, well they are automatically updated. Very sad and worrying. Thank you for telling us. 😊
I agree. There are some folks out there who are pushing for translations which cater to modern political and "cultural" fads and trends of one kind or another. Count me out! For me, the Bible is timeless in its message. We have need new translations from time to time, true. There were 8 English translations before the KJV. There have been more than 12 since, e.g., the ESV and the CSB.
I prefer the RSV to its "son", the ESV. The RSV text will not change and its language style is IMO superior to the ESV. In fact the majority of the ESV is lifted directly from the RSV. Yes, there are a handful of verses where I disagree with the RSV's wording but, being aware of that, I can navigate those readings by comparison with the ESV or NASB.
The RSV is better overall in my opinion too. That's why I have several copies of the 1952 text. I have one copy of the 1971 second edition, but I primarily read out of the KJV, RSV, and CSB.
“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.” 1 Timothy 6:10 KJV “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.” 1 Timothy 6:10 ESV
I was considering a change to ESV this year but in the end I settled on LSB for my "goto" for the next decades. I like the transparency of the LSB so I can see what the original says more clearly and then I can make up my own mind on what it means.
I don’t mind modest updates as long as they publish a complete list of the changes, which then allows you to pencil these in the margin of your existing Bible. Allan M
They know lots of people are subjected by the spirit of consumerism and will be easily convinced that they 'need' the updated version. I believe updates every 50 years may be fine, but not before, for language doesn't chance so radically so fast. Another justification could be if there were some new important archeological discovery. But that hasn't been the case.
NKJV is the translation for me as well. I appreciate the other versions and their attempts to get the most accurate and understandable words. But stable NKJV for reading and KJV for memorization have been my standard
I completely agree with you Tim about modern translations. It’s NKJV and KJV for me. That’s what my church uses as well. I read from others but stability and having everyone’s Bibles and all editions saying the same thing is a big strength IMO. Missing verses and changed verses throw me off. I often feel lost in the more modern translations, even between various editions and updates, so I often end up running back to KJV. It wasn’t always my favorite but I appreciate the stability and that all the KJV & NKJV Bibles I buy have the same verses.
For this inevitable reason I can’t justify investing in a high quality ESV Bible or any other modern version that is continually updating. I’ll keep premium Bible purchases to KJV and NKJV only.
@anickelsworthbiblereviews Having been a college student, I remember hear professors complain about a new edition coming out just to make money while the book they were selling was doing very well. The publisher was just unhappy that there were so many used copies out and that the teachers had not purchased a new copy in five years. This is not uncommon, particularly in the English, literature, or arts departments.
I think I'm going to be using the Kjv & Nkjv more & more. If I read from the Esv, it'll be from the ones I currently have. I won't be buying any updated Esv's. This is not necessary & I'm disappointed to hear about this news.
Ugh. Unless there is a straight-up mistake that the copy editors didn't catch, once it's published, it shouldn't change. I hate having to think "Is this NASB 1995 or some other year? New footnotes may be a solution, but I think they should simply dissolve the committee and that's that.
The biggest issue for me with the frequent updates has to do with memorization. I’ve used the ESV for over ten years, and have memorized chapters and whole books word-for-word. One of the primary ways this memorization is solidified and strengthened is through daily reading of the Bible in the ESV. When the text is updated, it can be frustrating to change what I’ve already memorized-it’s not at all easy. I’d love to change to either NKJV or LSB, though again, memorization makes that difficult.
Very informative and also very frustrating. The ESV has been my go-to translation for several years now (though the NKJV has been a close second in that regard) but I was a little disturbed a few years ago when they backed off a short-lived commitment to a permanent edition. The update in your video means at least a few updates are now on the way and after that who is to say there won't be more? There probably will be. I may follow your strategy and make the NKJV my standard version at this point, as the publishers of that version seem dedicated to a stable text. As you say, updates are overdone and rarely as necessary as some like to pretend they are. Thanks for another great video and addressing this important issue.
Over the last 40 years, I started out with the KJV. Thereafter, I have used the NIV, NASB95, ESV, NLT, and the last 10 years I have just stuck with the NKJV and KJV with the KJV my main.
My first question: Any chance they can reverse a number of decisions they've made in previous revisions? Or should I just keep looking longingly at that new Thomas Nelson RSV?
Are you going to ask for the FormTX they file when they get the copyright on their revision? I will place a bet right now with you the revisions will be consistent throughout.
Keep in mind.. just because there is an update doesn't mean the previous text edition is bad. It just means there is an update. So use the 2016 esv bibles you have until they wear out. Dont worry about it. And even better yet, take advantage of the closeout prices on 2016 editions that will hopefully happen. That being said, I do hope they go to a more traditional and litteral rendering of Genesis 3:16 and 4:7. This is an example of a very, very dynamic translation choice of a bible that's supposed to be very literal. Although the footnote explains what the Hebrew says.
I've been building out their Expository Commentary for several months now. Since Volume I doesn't come out until next year, I may not even be able to complete that in the 2016. I'll have a combination of 2016 and 2024 in the same commentary set. It's really quite ridiculous.
I grew up with a Harper's RSV Zondervan Study Bible 1952 text and have had it rebound once.It's my go to for memorizing and still is I am too old to change.I also study from the ESV sdtudy Bible 2011 edition.I also read and study from the NASB 1995, the NRSV, NLT, and read the Message.I can also read the NT in Greek and to let everybody know the RSV and ESV are a faithful bedrock translation.NKJV is excellent also.
I agree. I wish the footnotes were updated and not the text in most cases. It was hard enough for me with NASB adding the 2020 and LSB. They’re all good but I can’t use them all at once!
I probably have about 10 different ESV bibles on my shelves ranging from 2001 to 2016. I never grab one thinking that I'm grabbing a different translation, because the updates between them are really not that significant. It's not like NIV84 to NIV11, NASB95 to NASB20 or even HCSB to CSB all of which were large scale changes. The ESV in the last 23 years really has been just about the same translation. After reading the article, it doesn't seem like their changing their translation philosophy or anything, just (yet again) making minor changes.
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you accused them of that. I was just trying to make the point that for those of us who don't mind minor changes, I don't see this as a big deal. Though I guess we'll see how well this ages. 😅 I'll edit the comment.
Good call. Hadn’t thought of it that way! I wouldn’t think of pre-2016 ESV’s as somehow being different translations. And when you stop to consider that there are around 31,000 or so verses in the Bible and over 750,000 words, you begin to realize that 50 or so minor modifications is really nothing to get hung up on.
There was also an ESV update in 2011 too, just 4 years after the 2007 update. I remember back when they released the 2016 update, the ESV translation committee stated that the 2016 version would be the permanent text edition and that they would no longer update the translation. That also was a bit controversial with the backlash, so they took back on that and said they would update as needed. But I agree, ESV is being updated way too frequently. I thought I wouldn't see an ESV update for another 20-30 years, and made it my main translation. Probably will just continue using the 2016 edition since the changes will be so minor. Can always just write the changes in the margins or have a print out of all the verse updates. I also never really considered the NKJV until I found your channel lol. I'm starting to use it more along with the NASB95.
Updates or not I’m not gonna run and grab a new copy just because a committee decided to make subtle changes. Is it necessary to make changes? Beats me. Is it necessary for me to be in the word each day and study it to know God and how I should live according to His Word? Absolutely. Stick to one Bible and there isn’t a need to be having to buy new copies every time an update drops. We get so uptight on these things. Just study God’s Word and move on. We already know God is faithful to His Word and reveals Himself to us when we search for Him. We know no translation is going to get it right and there will always be things to gripe about. Grab one or two translations you enjoy and understand and get to studying. I’m sure God is aware of all this nonsense and will do what He has done to preserve His Word which never changes and will never return void.
Tim thank you for keeping us informed - you and the other two Tims (you know who they are, lol) bring positive, honest, clear eyed viewpoints to us who are trying to stay abreast of how Scripture is related or presented to us. I trust you guys, you love Jesus, that's readily apparent, and are caring about the things you provide.
I have an ESV that I got before there was an ESV-CE; guess I'll take the CE off my "need" list. Thankfully, my primary (RSV-CE2) has had 0 updates since initial publication.
I'm actually wondering if this isn't because of the ESV-CE. The Bishops certifying that translation for Catholic use made some tweaks to make the translation more consistent.
Like you, Tim, I'm sticking with the NKJV. Not just because it's a stable text, but because it is a wonderful translation. (But I must admit, I also like the CSB and NASB!)
So frustrating 😫 just seems like they want to make money off new editions. I'll keep my esv study bible for the notes but I won't be using ESV anymore 😕 I spent a bunch of money for a premium esv too.
One of the main reasons I’m mostly KJV Only, with some usage out of NKJV. I don’t like the Bible of the month club vibes most modern translations are guilty of. Not to mention manuscript differences.
I am so sick of it. I just read the article. His statement about translating phrases to match how they were translated in other areas sounds like there may have been a lot of push back from the production of LSB. I came out of the kjv movement. I’ve been out for about 7 years but good grief they make it easy to want to go back.
When you posted about this on Facebook I was unaware of the frequency that the ESV met for updating. I’m aware of the updates to the NASB and I use the NIV. For an example I thought we were talking about something like the NIV that had had a text from 84 and then updated in 2011 (which I feel is appropriate). You’re right that does seem like a lot, and I’m considering adding a word for word translation to my study for cross reference.
I don't think the ESV will ever be a complete translation just like the nasb will never be a complete translation. I will take the King James Bible over modern.
All these unnecessary “revisions” to a “Permanent Text Edition” is what caused me to buy a KJV. If you say it the permanent addition don’t change it… let your yes be yes and your no be no.
Hi Tim. Who are these people doing the suggesting? "So we're meeting in Wheaton, Ill., in July to consider 120-or-so suggested changes. I suspect we'll accept 30 or 40 of those suggestions..."
The updates often seem minor. How much new theological ground are we really gaining. Like you said probably could cover it in the notes or maybe in devotional material. I still preach from the older CSB. There last update was not big enough for me change.
Its only the ESV i can recall that has been updated frequently but the major translations are updated from my recollection on average 20 years or more.
I used the NASB95 for years, and was quite surprised at how many changes the translation committee did with the 2020. I like most of the changes, but it makes it hard for memorizing. We really need more modern translations with a stable text like the NKJV.
You are just spot on! Why on earth constantly update the actual translation just because people use words slightly differently over time. I think you solution of simply updating the notes make much more sense. Sure, maybe then every 40 years or so do a full update.
This is why people like me are kjv/nkjv only/ preferred. Or at least majority text preferred. This is purely for marketing and money at this point, if you combine the % of changes from each copy right of the niv, nasb,esv the text ends up being a really high % of changes. If we believe this is God words and innaarent and infallible then changes make it different period, and if you primary authority is the word of God that creates a huge problem. I stay with interlinear Hebrew & Greek , 1536 Matthew’s Bible, 1650 Geneva, douay rhiems, kjv, sometimes nkjv and MEV. The only time I use a critical text based Bible is a study Bible.
I have a few questions that pertain to leather, soft or imitation leather Bible covers. Why is it that they show fingerprints badly and because they’re so flexible that usually the glued in liners come loose from the covers the end that sometimes pages on the inside of the Bible that are not sewn in and their glued fall outand why are some leather soft Bibles are expensive and they’re not made of quality just your opinion is all I’m asking and can you recommend a king James version leather soft that is Quality not overpriced and is durable
They can update all they want…doesn’t mean I will waste my money getting it. I have my KJV, NASB95, ESV, CSB, NIV and NLT in physical bibles/study bibles and that is what I am sticking with. They can keep their ‘updates’.
I’ve always considered myself someone who valued the discoveries of modern scholarship over the need for a stable text, (NOT that I consider myself a Bible scholar, but I like to benefit from the research and knowledge of those who are) but even I think every 5-7 years seems excessive. I like your idea of updated footnotes instead of a complete textual update.
I generally agree with you but I would add the CSB even if it’s bland because they translate units of measure and it’s clear for a non or new Bible reader and the NET for those marvelous text notes. But these constant updates make group Bible study more challenging and it’s gotten to the point of silliness.
Nooooooooo!😂 I agree with you. I really don’t think an update is necessary. Too frequent updates, invites interpretation changes based on popular culture rather than on God’s word.
The ESV has been my main translation for a long time and when they updated it last and announced a commitment to no further updates I purchased my "forever" bible. It's a premium bound edition and it took a long time to transfer the notes into it from my old bible. Since then I've added more pages, references, written notes and quite a few sticky notes too. It's huge and heavy and it contains all my bible brains. I read a different translation cover to cover every year, and any and all notes end up in my ESV. There's no way to ever get a new update and transfer everything to it. If they do an update, somewhere along the line I'll find a list of all the changes and just put them in my bible as notes. I'm not a scholar but it sure seems to be a money grab. I imagine other publishers will gradually jump on the bandwagon and decide to update their translations.
Updating Bibles usually means that mistranslations of the original languages are corrected as we better understand those languages and biblical text. Updates could be published as a supplement attached in a pocket at the back of a bible and when the supplement gets too large a re-publication of the bible can be introduced. Generational updates are probably sufficient.
As long as they don’t add “brothers and sisters” like the NASB 2020. ESV has this in footnotes where it belongs if at all. That said, I agree that there have been too many updates.
I agree that any time you have to “explain” the text the notes are the best place for it. Be literal as possible in the text and then dynamic in the notes. Perfect approach.
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews we agree. My only exception is a translation that is already dynamic I happen to really like the NET which is a bit dynamic so I can live with this particular thing. The ESV is stated to be a formal translation so it should remain so.
Oh man, I love ESV it reads so nicely. I actually just got back into it after being in NKJV for so long but, I need something stable. NKJV is where I’m going to stay! Thanks for the update!
I do agree, they shouldn’t update translations as often as they do. The king James version is a good example hasn’t been updated since 1982 when it was first published.
Dust off the 84 NIV or the 95 NASB and the NKJV. Stop buying the new editions and maybe they will learn to leave updating alone.
Sounds like a good idea to me!
There was a lesbian sodomite consultant on the niv84 names Virginia Molenkott. I would stray away from the Non Inspired Version.
I’ve been saying this for awhile. If they lose money they stop just like any other industry. And let’s be honest this is all marketing to make money. The “older better manuscripts” the “new discoveries” “better scholarship” etc is all just to make people buy them.
St.Jerome translation the vulgate in 382 ish A.D. and the douay rheims reads almost exactly like th kjv. He had access to things we do not today and his scholarship and the kjv scholars were far superior to anyone today without a doubt.
@@terryhumberd7546 it's tough to stop buying the new editions when the NIV84 has been long out of print and only available mostly used from 3rd parties. Thankfully the NASB95 are still in print and going strong. Same for the NKJV.
I've used the NKJV all year and it is solid. I also like the CSB because they said they're done updating since the 2020 edition and if I remember right they said it would require new manuscripts being found.
I like your suggestion on just updating footnotes and leaving the text alone.
Aside from the KJV and NKJV, Bible translations are starting to become like phones and computers where we need to upgrade every few years to keep up to date. The Word of God doesn’t need to be updated (at least not at this frequency).
I hope you guys eventually remember that the goal is to communicate Gods word , not stick with tradition
You can keep original copies of archaic bibles on your book shelf . But if 100 new versions bring 100 new people to walk in Gods ways than it’s worth it
Agree 100%. Bible of the month club is bizarre to me. And the first thing to be lost is scripture memorization.
They just want to make sales.
Great that the NKJV will not get updated!
Just call it the CUSV
Continually Updating Standard Version
Ha ha.
I still love it haha, but NKJV is close enough for me.
They did walk back the 2016 statement that it was the definitive, final version
@@peterfox7663 thanks to all the backlash smh. Perhaps if they never announced that the 2016 edition would be their "permanent text edition" and kept it silent to themselves, there wouldn't have been any criticism for that decision. Who knows if it could have been another 20 years before they decide to update it again?
@@JSK95 doubtful. These companies continue updating translations. Oh how I miss the 80s and 90s
Love the ESV and was considering making it my go to translation but after watching this video I am sticking to the NKJV.
Thanks Tim love watching your content ❤
And this is why - even though I do buy modern versions - all my _good_ bibles are KJVs.
💯
Enough is enough. There are now only two options of Bible translation to buy in my opinion,
KJV and NKJV.
NKJV has left out 19000 words and has nothing to do with the King James. It is a perversion!
Yes stick with the trusty King James Bible
💯
NKJV is my daily Bible
I was raised in NKJV and KJV. When I got serious about studying the word of God I bought an ESV. As I read it through I found myself translating in my head back to NKJV. So I’ve moved back to NKJV.
Truly, I'm turning more KJVO by the minute. I have an ESV Study, and Thinline, but when I read KJV, it feels like home...like the house of the LORD
Same here
That's just dopamine firing off due to the swagger of the KJV translation.
@@u-l-t-i 🤣 I’ll take it
Exactly how I feel when I read the Hebrew and Greek.
Yes just stick to the King James
The CSB was already nudging out the ESV for my favorite critical text to read along with my NKJV, this will probably help me nudge that along. I can go with once a generation updates, but every 5-7 is too much for me.
Oh, this went pretty much the same for me.
A few years ago I was looking at bibles for both some Bible study and regular reading.
While my church uses the *NKJV* I was seeing a lot of love for the *ESV* online so I checked it out and at the time it seemed like a 'sweet spot' to me for the sort of 'formal language' of translations like the N/KJV while it also was being praised for (allegedly) being very accurate.
So I got a copy of the *ESV Archeology Study Bible* but around that time I also picked up a *CSB Everyday Study Bible*.
At first I kind of thought the CSB was a bit basic and thought I preferred the ESV, but I've since come to have the CSB become one of my favorite translations.
(I have really been wanting to get my hands on a nice *HCSB Study Bible* since I found out about it though, high hopes that I'll be getting one as a Christmas present this year, Lord willing, hehe!)
The CSB has already been updated once and it hasn’t been around that long.
I really enjoy the CSB
CSB is also going to get updates. I think KJV, NKJV, and NASB95 are probably the best choice for no updates.
The CSB launched in 2017 and had its first update in 2020. Holman stated then that they reserve the right to issue updates, but that they had no intention of doing so again.
Enough with the updates. In the article you linked he even said hardly noticeable. So what's the point?
Thank you for saying this.. what is the point if all they are going to do is make 30-40 minor changes..
@@caseydbell as a q, would you be fine simply keeping the 2016 text if that’s it?
@@pollycronopolis7648 yep
@@caseydbell that gives a peace of mind ty; I bought quite a few study bibles of this version and a great a great deal money on a Schuyler ESV. I love the net bible full notes edition too. I also think simply rewording is just another way of saying something rather than more accurate
I'll hazard a guess. It's like college textbooks. Tweak them just slightly, then force the students to buy the NEW edition. The professors keep their income stream alive! Rinse and repeat. It's an old money-making trick.
I've determined that I need a consistent translation. The KJV remains my primary text as many of my study resources use it. Modern translations are useful to help understand the KJV in areas where the words aren't as clear (such as Job 8:11 and the word flag) and in that regard the updates should not be a problem. The important factor here is that we remain students of the Word.
The Schuyler personal size Canterbury kjv has a dictionary in the back for the words that are hard, i think the regular size one has it too.
@@Starkwolf88 Cool, thanks.
I grew up using the NKJV and as a Reformed Presby, we use the ESV in church. The NKJV (soverign collection) is my go to bible.
I recently switched from ESV to NKJV, and this video reinforces my decision.
Updates are so frustrating, it’s hard to memorize verses knowing that they may change. Did I hear right that the NKJV will not have any updates? If so I may switch to the NKJV as my primary translation. Appreciate all you do, love these informative videos.
The NKJV is committed to a stable text.
That is so good to hear, definitely going to use the NKJV more. Thanks for the info.
@@davidkelley8220I saw that the nkjv may update the footnotes but the text won’t be. I could be wrong so don’t quote me, that or they said they were not doing either the text or the footnotes and it’s stating the same.
I memorize from the KJV. I grew up with it. ❤
Thankfully not an issue for me, just so very grateful we live in a society that has access to so many sound and wonderful translations. Happy to read any of them! Tinkering with the text is a non-issue as long as it doesn’t alter the infallible word of the Lord. There are brothers and sisters in the world who are certainly not as well off as those of us living in the west enjoying the freedom we do. Let’s not create waves where there aren’t any. 🇬🇧🇺🇸
I’m with you Pastor Tim. I love the NKJV. I’m in the NKJV, ESV, CSB and NLT just about every week. When I read the text from the NKJV my heart just sighs (in a good way). 😊
They should just add these updates in the footnotes.
100 percent agreed.
Yeah tbh
My favorite bible translations are the CSB, NASB ‘95, and NKJV. The CSB has dynamic equivalence which is simply beautifully written.
Pastor Tim I’m hanging onto my NKJV, my NASBs 95, 77 and I’ve even got a 73, my NIV 84 and my ESV 2001 and I’m not moving.
I am really disappointed with gender neutral language in the Bible and especially changes to support cultural issues. You mentioned the gender inclusive language of the NRSV UE but there were other changes in that update to accommodate the culture. I do wonder about the motivation behind this.
The Bible used to be the standard for Christians but with so many changes being made its authority is being eroded. This makes memorisation harder and if one only has a digital Bible, well they are automatically updated. Very sad and worrying. Thank you for telling us. 😊
I agree. There are some folks out there who are pushing for translations which cater to modern political and "cultural" fads and trends of one kind or another. Count me out! For me, the Bible is timeless in its message. We have need new translations from time to time, true. There were 8 English translations before the KJV. There have been more than 12 since, e.g., the ESV and the CSB.
Ugh. From now on, I will exclusively go with the RSV 2 CE and the NKJV. This is not necessary and I share your concerns. I hope they leave it alone.
Another reason I'm Majority Preferred... Critical Text is not stable.
My NKJV will remain my go-to. Memorizing Scripture that’s constantly being reconsidered and retranslated gets old and discouraging.
I prefer the RSV to its "son", the ESV. The RSV text will not change and its language style is IMO superior to the ESV. In fact the majority of the ESV is lifted directly from the RSV. Yes, there are a handful of verses where I disagree with the RSV's wording but, being aware of that, I can navigate those readings by comparison with the ESV or NASB.
The RSV is better overall in my opinion too. That's why I have several copies of the 1952 text. I have one copy of the 1971 second edition, but I primarily read out of the KJV, RSV, and CSB.
Good choices - a nice mix of TR/NU and formal/informal.
The KJV has done numerous updates, but that was over a 400 year period, not a measley 10 year period.
“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”
1 Timothy 6:10 KJV
“For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.”
1 Timothy 6:10 ESV
So tired of all the updates. The last one I bought into was the NASB 2020. Now I think I'm going to stick with the KJV/NKJV for a while.
I was considering a change to ESV this year but in the end I settled on LSB for my "goto" for the next decades. I like the transparency of the LSB so I can see what the original says more clearly and then I can make up my own mind on what it means.
Good choice.
NKJV. Yep. It’s comforting and stable. Been using since 1985. 👍🙏🏻🥁
I don’t mind modest updates as long as they publish a complete list of the changes, which then allows you to pencil these in the margin of your existing Bible. Allan M
They know lots of people are subjected by the spirit of consumerism and will be easily convinced that they 'need' the updated version. I believe updates every 50 years may be fine, but not before, for language doesn't chance so radically so fast. Another justification could be if there were some new important archeological discovery. But that hasn't been the case.
It’s seems like the ESV translators are not very confident in their work
Exactly my thought. When in doubt, DON'T DO IT (unless there is a new discovery which sheds light on the text in some new way).
NKJV is the translation for me as well. I appreciate the other versions and their attempts to get the most accurate and understandable words. But stable NKJV for reading and KJV for memorization have been my standard
Ring ring: Hello, are we ready for a textual update? Let me check. NO, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever.
I mean yes, but I also understand their position.
I completely agree with you Tim about modern translations. It’s NKJV and KJV for me. That’s what my church uses as well. I read from others but stability and having everyone’s Bibles and all editions saying the same thing is a big strength IMO. Missing verses and changed verses throw me off. I often feel lost in the more modern translations, even between various editions and updates, so I often end up running back to KJV. It wasn’t always my favorite but I appreciate the stability and that all the KJV & NKJV Bibles I buy have the same verses.
For this inevitable reason I can’t justify investing in a high quality ESV Bible or any other modern version that is continually updating. I’ll keep premium Bible purchases to KJV and NKJV only.
It reminds me when they update college textbooks by making very minor changes so they can force students and schools to buy the new edition
I’m not sure that is the motive. They aren’t having a difficult time selling the ESV as is.
That’s what I was thinking.
@anickelsworthbiblereviews
Having been a college student, I remember hear professors complain about a new edition coming out just to make money while the book they were selling was doing very well. The publisher was just unhappy that there were so many used copies out and that the teachers had not purchased a new copy in five years. This is not uncommon, particularly in the English, literature, or arts departments.
Keep reading the New King James Version.
I think I'm going to be using the Kjv & Nkjv more & more. If I read from the Esv, it'll be from the ones I currently have. I won't be buying any updated Esv's. This is not necessary & I'm disappointed to hear about this news.
Perhaps it's all about the money? New updates usually mean more income for the publishers. I'm sticking with my NKJV as well...
Ugh. Unless there is a straight-up mistake that the copy editors didn't catch, once it's published, it shouldn't change. I hate having to think "Is this NASB 1995 or some other year? New footnotes may be a solution, but I think they should simply dissolve the committee and that's that.
The biggest issue for me with the frequent updates has to do with memorization. I’ve used the ESV for over ten years, and have memorized chapters and whole books word-for-word. One of the primary ways this memorization is solidified and strengthened is through daily reading of the Bible in the ESV. When the text is updated, it can be frustrating to change what I’ve already memorized-it’s not at all easy.
I’d love to change to either NKJV or LSB, though again, memorization makes that difficult.
Very informative and also very frustrating. The ESV has been my go-to translation for several years now (though the NKJV has been a close second in that regard) but I was a little disturbed a few years ago when they backed off a short-lived commitment to a permanent edition. The update in your video means at least a few updates are now on the way and after that who is to say there won't be more? There probably will be. I may follow your strategy and make the NKJV my standard version at this point, as the publishers of that version seem dedicated to a stable text. As you say, updates are overdone and rarely as necessary as some like to pretend they are. Thanks for another great video and addressing this important issue.
I wonder if they're doing this to compete with the incredible popularity of the CSB, which is much more readable. In any case, I'll stick with my KJV.
Over the last 40 years, I started out with the KJV. Thereafter, I have used the NIV, NASB95, ESV, NLT, and the last 10 years I have just stuck with the NKJV and KJV with the KJV my main.
I’m NKJVO FOR LIFE! That’s my nickels worth!
Yessir!
What's the "O" for, 'original'?
Only
Makes sense. Thanks.
There it is. I've never actually seen someone who was an "O" that wasn't KJVO. But I have now.
This is one reason why I could never click with the ESV….staying with the Nkjv, NASB95 and KJV.
Those are the 3 I use, with the KJV for memorization.
I agree with your assessment. Leave it alone.
My first question: Any chance they can reverse a number of decisions they've made in previous revisions? Or should I just keep looking longingly at that new Thomas Nelson RSV?
I hope so!
Are you going to ask for the FormTX they file when they get the copyright on their revision? I will place a bet right now with you the revisions will be consistent throughout.
In 2016 they originally called it the "permanent" text
- People complain
They changed it to the "2016 text" and are now updating it
- People complain
I didn’t complain nor am I complaining.
Your comments are spot on. Thank you for sharing them.
Keep in mind.. just because there is an update doesn't mean the previous text edition is bad. It just means there is an update. So use the 2016 esv bibles you have until they wear out. Dont worry about it. And even better yet, take advantage of the closeout prices on 2016 editions that will hopefully happen.
That being said, I do hope they go to a more traditional and litteral rendering of Genesis 3:16 and 4:7. This is an example of a very, very dynamic translation choice of a bible that's supposed to be very literal. Although the footnote explains what the Hebrew says.
I get that. Just not a fan of updates.
I've been building out their Expository Commentary for several months now. Since Volume I doesn't come out until next year, I may not even be able to complete that in the 2016. I'll have a combination of 2016 and 2024 in the same commentary set. It's really quite ridiculous.
Good point and good grief. @@WilliamSwartzendruber
@@anickelsworthbiblereviewsI get that too.
I grew up with a Harper's RSV Zondervan Study Bible 1952 text and have had it rebound once.It's my go to for memorizing and still is I am too old to change.I also study from the ESV sdtudy Bible 2011 edition.I also read and study from the NASB 1995, the NRSV, NLT, and read the Message.I can also read the NT in Greek and to let everybody know the RSV and ESV are a faithful bedrock translation.NKJV is excellent also.
Thank you for this information. I didn't even know the ESV already had these prior updates!
Every 50 years would be enough
And even then not really needed.
Well, the NKJV is almost that old, so they'd better get started...😎
In my 40 years of studying the Bible I have slowly evolved from the NKJV to the NIV, to the ESV, and recently finally back to the NKJV.
I will go back to KJV. THIS IS RIDICULOUS! It's getting as bad as iPhone.
Why? There needs to be some updates.
You do know we discovered more and new manuscript since the 1600s right? 😂
@@d3adp94 None that matter!
@@Rod-Wheeler sure thing Rod.
@d3adp94 Name one that changed doctrinal teaching.
I agree. I wish the footnotes were updated and not the text in most cases. It was hard enough for me with NASB adding the 2020 and LSB. They’re all good but I can’t use them all at once!
I probably have about 10 different ESV bibles on my shelves ranging from 2001 to 2016. I never grab one thinking that I'm grabbing a different translation, because the updates between them are really not that significant. It's not like NIV84 to NIV11, NASB95 to NASB20 or even HCSB to CSB all of which were large scale changes. The ESV in the last 23 years really has been just about the same translation. After reading the article, it doesn't seem like their changing their translation philosophy or anything, just (yet again) making minor changes.
I don’t believe I accused them of changing their philosophy of making drastic changes.
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you accused them of that. I was just trying to make the point that for those of us who don't mind minor changes, I don't see this as a big deal. Though I guess we'll see how well this ages. 😅 I'll edit the comment.
Good call. Hadn’t thought of it that way! I wouldn’t think of pre-2016 ESV’s as somehow being different translations. And when you stop to consider that there are around 31,000 or so verses in the Bible and over 750,000 words, you begin to realize that 50 or so minor modifications is really nothing to get hung up on.
About 100 years between updates is soon enough. Language doesn't change so fast that an updated is needed in 5 years.
I wonder why so many updates? I’ve noticed other Bible companies don’t do that much updates. Also I love the NRSV
Money
I think it's less about money and more about commitment issues.
There was also an ESV update in 2011 too, just 4 years after the 2007 update. I remember back when they released the 2016 update, the ESV translation committee stated that the 2016 version would be the permanent text edition and that they would no longer update the translation. That also was a bit controversial with the backlash, so they took back on that and said they would update as needed. But I agree, ESV is being updated way too frequently. I thought I wouldn't see an ESV update for another 20-30 years, and made it my main translation. Probably will just continue using the 2016 edition since the changes will be so minor. Can always just write the changes in the margins or have a print out of all the verse updates.
I also never really considered the NKJV until I found your channel lol. I'm starting to use it more along with the NASB95.
Thanks! Once every 100 years is enough for me for updating a translation.
Updates or not I’m not gonna run and grab a new copy just because a committee decided to make subtle changes. Is it necessary to make changes? Beats me. Is it necessary for me to be in the word each day and study it to know God and how I should live according to His Word? Absolutely. Stick to one Bible and there isn’t a need to be having to buy new copies every time an update drops. We get so uptight on these things. Just study God’s Word and move on. We already know God is faithful to His Word and reveals Himself to us when we search for Him. We know no translation is going to get it right and there will always be things to gripe about. Grab one or two translations you enjoy and understand and get to studying. I’m sure God is aware of all this nonsense and will do what He has done to preserve His Word which never changes and will never return void.
The issue isn’t me needing to have the latest update. It is that anyone that buys one or any software will have a different edition. It’s unnecessary.
Tim thank you for keeping us informed - you and the other two Tims (you know who they are, lol) bring positive, honest, clear eyed viewpoints to us who are trying to stay abreast of how Scripture is related or presented to us. I trust you guys, you love Jesus, that's readily apparent, and are caring about the things you provide.
I have an ESV that I got before there was an ESV-CE; guess I'll take the CE off my "need" list. Thankfully, my primary (RSV-CE2) has had 0 updates since initial publication.
I'm actually wondering if this isn't because of the ESV-CE. The Bishops certifying that translation for Catholic use made some tweaks to make the translation more consistent.
Like you, Tim, I'm sticking with the NKJV. Not just because it's a stable text, but because it is a wonderful translation. (But I must admit, I also like the CSB and NASB!)
In case anyone is curious, the KJB was standardized in 1769. Presumably, that’s what all the updates to the ESV are about.
And that would merit a great follow up video if this was the update to end all updates.
So frustrating 😫 just seems like they want to make money off new editions. I'll keep my esv study bible for the notes but I won't be using ESV anymore 😕 I spent a bunch of money for a premium esv too.
I don’t think they have a sales problem. It’s one of the top.
One of the main reasons I’m mostly KJV Only, with some usage out of NKJV. I don’t like the Bible of the month club vibes most modern translations are guilty of. Not to mention manuscript differences.
Exactly
I am so sick of it. I just read the article. His statement about translating phrases to match how they were translated in other areas sounds like there may have been a lot of push back from the production of LSB. I came out of the kjv movement. I’ve been out for about 7 years but good grief they make it easy to want to go back.
When you posted about this on Facebook I was unaware of the frequency that the ESV met for updating. I’m aware of the updates to the NASB and I use the NIV. For an example I thought we were talking about something like the NIV that had had a text from 84 and then updated in 2011 (which I feel is appropriate). You’re right that does seem like a lot, and I’m considering adding a word for word translation to my study for cross reference.
I don't think the ESV will ever be a complete translation just like the nasb will never be a complete translation. I will take the King James Bible over modern.
100%!
All these unnecessary “revisions” to a “Permanent Text Edition” is what caused me to buy a KJV. If you say it the permanent addition don’t change it… let your yes be yes and your no be no.
Hi Tim. Who are these people doing the suggesting? "So we're meeting in Wheaton, Ill., in July to consider 120-or-so suggested changes. I suspect we'll accept 30 or 40 of those suggestions..."
I wondered the same thing.
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews, it’s always a they. Very mysterious.
The updates often seem minor. How much new theological ground are we really gaining. Like you said probably could cover it in the notes or maybe in devotional material. I still preach from the older CSB. There last update was not big enough for me change.
Couldn't agree more! I've been a NKJV guy since Covid because of your channel. God bless!
Its only the ESV i can recall that has been updated frequently but the major translations are updated from my recollection on average 20 years or more.
Agreed! Nice job explaining this issue, Brother Tim!
I used the NASB95 for years, and was quite surprised at how many changes the translation committee did with the 2020. I like most of the changes, but it makes it hard for memorizing. We really need more modern translations with a stable text like the NKJV.
I have parked my ESV and now use the Legacy Standard Version.
I agree with all that you said!
Entirely agree with everything said here. Would love to see the NKJV footnotes (and footnotes only) updated.
You are just spot on! Why on earth constantly update the actual translation just because people use words slightly differently over time. I think you solution of simply updating the notes make much more sense. Sure, maybe then every 40 years or so do a full update.
This is why people like me are kjv/nkjv only/ preferred. Or at least majority text preferred.
This is purely for marketing and money at this point, if you combine the % of changes from each copy right of the niv, nasb,esv the text ends up being a really high % of changes.
If we believe this is God words and innaarent and infallible then changes make it different period, and if you primary authority is the word of God that creates a huge problem.
I stay with interlinear Hebrew & Greek , 1536 Matthew’s Bible, 1650 Geneva, douay rhiems, kjv, sometimes nkjv and MEV.
The only time I use a critical text based Bible is a study Bible.
I have a few questions that pertain to leather, soft or imitation leather Bible covers. Why is it that they show fingerprints badly and because they’re so flexible that usually the glued in liners come loose from the covers the end that sometimes pages on the inside of the Bible that are not sewn in and their glued fall outand why are some leather soft Bibles are expensive and they’re not made of quality just your opinion is all I’m asking and can you recommend a king James version leather soft that is Quality not overpriced and is durable
I’ve not ever seen that issue before.
Frequent changes suggest a regular stimulation of revenue streams. Ill not buy any except the KJV.👍🏆
Didn’t they say the last update was the last one?
They walked it back when the minions pitched a fit.
They can update all they want…doesn’t mean I will waste my money getting it. I have my KJV, NASB95, ESV, CSB, NIV and NLT in physical bibles/study bibles and that is what I am sticking with. They can keep their ‘updates’.
I’ve always considered myself someone who valued the discoveries of modern scholarship over the need for a stable text, (NOT that I consider myself a Bible scholar, but I like to benefit from the research and knowledge of those who are) but even I think every 5-7 years seems excessive. I like your idea of updated footnotes instead of a complete textual update.
I agree with you Tim. The ESV is my primary reader/study Bible with the 95 NASB and NKJV a close 2nd and 3rd. Frustrating to hear an update is coming.
I'll just stick with my KJV, but no ill will to those who like a different translation.
I generally agree with you but I would add the CSB even if it’s bland because they translate units of measure and it’s clear for a non or new Bible reader and the NET for those marvelous text notes. But these constant updates make group Bible study more challenging and it’s gotten to the point of silliness.
Nooooooooo!😂 I agree with you. I really don’t think an update is necessary. Too frequent updates, invites interpretation changes based on popular culture rather than on God’s word.
I think there are far too many English translations, & I question whether they are all needed.
I do also.
The ESV has been my main translation for a long time and when they updated it last and announced a commitment to no further updates I purchased my "forever" bible. It's a premium bound edition and it took a long time to transfer the notes into it from my old bible. Since then I've added more pages, references, written notes and quite a few sticky notes too. It's huge and heavy and it contains all my bible brains. I read a different translation cover to cover every year, and any and all notes end up in my ESV. There's no way to ever get a new update and transfer everything to it. If they do an update, somewhere along the line I'll find a list of all the changes and just put them in my bible as notes. I'm not a scholar but it sure seems to be a money grab. I imagine other publishers will gradually jump on the bandwagon and decide to update their translations.
Updating Bibles usually means that mistranslations of the original languages are corrected as we better understand those languages and biblical text. Updates could be published as a supplement attached in a pocket at the back of a bible and when the supplement gets too large a re-publication of the bible can be introduced. Generational updates are probably sufficient.
As long as they don’t add “brothers and sisters” like the NASB 2020. ESV has this in footnotes where it belongs if at all. That said, I agree that there have been too many updates.
I agree that any time you have to “explain” the text the notes are the best place for it. Be literal as possible in the text and then dynamic in the notes. Perfect approach.
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews we agree. My only exception is a translation that is already dynamic I happen to really like the NET which is a bit dynamic so I can live with this particular thing. The ESV is stated to be a formal translation so it should remain so.
Oh man, I love ESV it reads so nicely. I actually just got back into it after being in NKJV for so long but, I need something stable. NKJV is where I’m going to stay! Thanks for the update!
I do agree, they shouldn’t update translations as often as they do. The king James version is a good example hasn’t been updated since 1982 when it was first published.