Based on the S2000 firing order (1,3,4,2), that pairing on the new header is the main reason for the increased power. Merging 1&3 /4&2 keeps the exhaust pulses exactly 180 degrees apart. This way when the the two runners merge at the 1st collector, you don't have exhaust gases colliding with the other runner as that runners exhaust has already cleared the area. Ideally, you want all the exhaust gases to smoothly merge together while staying equally spaced apart. Kinda like 4 lanes of traffic merging into 2 lanes and then to 1. If everyone is spaced properly, that transition happens smoothy with not too much slow down.
That is actually one of my bucket lists in life. To see a 4 Lane smoothly merge to a two lane, smoothly merge to a one lane. It would be a once in a lifetime Christmas Miracle! Lol
In wondering if it's contributing to the reduction in midrange someone else commented below, however? I could be off the mark here because tracking exhaust pulses still does my head in, but with cylinders 1 & 4, and 2 & 3 paired, when 3 opens the exhaust gas has to go all the way to the final merge collector before it can try to get into cylinder 1 for reversion. But if 1 & 3 are paired, isn't that a shorter route?
@@ftovr2957 I don't think it's a question of a shorter route (because all the runners are equal length). I think it's just the TIMING of when those pulses meet each other. It seems in a 4,2,1 setup, you have to time the pulses to the 1st collector properly 1st before even worrying about what happens at the main collector. The length of the 2 to 1 section should also play roll. I've always had a problem figuring this out myself but for some reason after seeing these two headers side by side and looking up the S2000 firing order, my brain is starting to visualize what's going on inside. Similarly wizardry is going on with those headers on the new C8 Z06 so it's starting to make sense. I've always wanted to build a 4,2,1 setup for an NA Mazda 4 rotor and now I have an idea on how to do it when I start experimenting. We need some exhaust pulse animations to give us a visual.
@@rotaryperfection Yeah, having four things going on at once is a bit much for the ol brain sometimes lol. I'm just going off the helpful diagram Mazda made in relation to their Skyactiv engines, which utilise a long 4-2-1 header precisely to avoid gas reversion (although where emissions isn't concerned, a long enough 4-1 does the same thing with different scavenging timing from what I've read. By shorter route, I mean less in terms of the actual primaries, but the route between the one that is pushing gas out, and the one that finishing but still open. So the pulses may be more equal, but for the J's header, exhaust gas that's leaving cyl3 has to pass both the first merge collector paired with cyl2, and the second merge, before it has a chance of travelling back up to cyl1 that is closing but still open. Where the Ballade, since cyl3 and cyl1 are joined, only has to pass the first join. But I'm definitely no expert on it, just curious about the results.
Will watch every episode of the ap1 NA build as I may want to copy you a little bit hehe It's so rare to see a youtuber not aiming for big hp and turbo but more with a NA and plaisur built in mind !!! Just like I like it 😂
@@TheSlipAngle I love all your built!! Espacialy the miata !! It sound so good !!! the way you drive and all the little reference to best motoring international is perfect Hehe I guess what I am trying to say is; you guys are doing a great job !! Tks a lot for this channel ! (Sorry for my english.. I'm a french canadian)
To add to the flow you can get the header JetHot coated as they coat the inside as well as the outside!!! On top of the they stay Much Cooler! I have been using JetHot since the early 1980's. Their coating is guaranteed for life as well!!! They do an Outstanding job. I'm going to coat everything I can on my NA. I'm even going to coat the trans housing and diff housing as well as the sub-frames because the exhaust runs through them. I've notice that the Miata crowd (in general) don't use JetHot and with everyone being so censored about heat in the engine bay, I don't understand why more people within the Miata community doesn't use it. Best Always and in ALL WAYS,
I do think the timing gear is going to be beneficial in your case but when I tested the Ballade header vs a J's Replica PLM header the PLM had gains EVERYWHERE with better exhaust scavenging and it was also lighter like J's. The Ballade one however was a bit quieter after some clearancing for the head shield. Mine however doesn't have the Spoon headgasket or a milled head so I don't have the extra compression and I have a Max Bore throttle body instead of Skunk2. I know this setup is going to be better but the header I believe is holding it back.
@@TheSlipAngle I probably have them saved on my computer as it's been a couple of years. I believe I posted them on S2ki if I can recall my old screen name. My AP1 is the typical AutoX STR build. I have just a AP1 with the Karcepts E-Manage setup and we tweaked the tune a bit. Using a HFC and 75mm HKS exhaust on OEM header we managed to get a 210-215 HP baseline with about 140tq but a more linear line with VTEC at 4000rpm that feels great. When I tried the Ballade header I did lose about 10-15hp below 4600 then around 5200+ it had 8-15 horsepower. Gains were impressive up top. Peak torque was 144 after 3 runs. When I tried the J's Replica I managed to gain +10hp and +7tq from 3000-5000 then it was a flat increase up to redline of about +8-12 horsepower with torque peaking at 148 after 3 runs. The Ballade header did make more peak power but the loss in midrange with my setup was what made me not like it as the gains were really only better in a 500rpm window near the top. I have added a Fluidampr and played with intakes since then. With a test pipe and a Whale Penis intake on the same Dyno on a 86⁰F day I did make 238HP at the wheels and 149TQ but the engine runs much smoother.
@@DirtDude117 perhaps Ballades exhaust manifold is beneficial for SC? But on that note we probably have better exhaust manifolds as well... Interesting read, thank you.
@@TheSlipAngle understandable. It's probably one of the older cars you have so that makes sense. that's good to hear though. I didn't know if you had been burdened in the past that made you seek out peak examples rather than fixer-uppers.
F22c provides that extra hp and torque down low. 10-15+ across the range. Stock head flows to much for the 2l but really helps the 2.2l once modded and tuned. My experience with the Ballade cams on my tuned f22: no top end gains, shift of power down low..could lower vtec even more and gained some good torque and hp down low.
The S2K is already maxed out from factory, your basic N/A upgrades are for weight saving & aesthetics only(And often times you will lose hp). There is NO header out there that performs better than OEM. Headers that increase mid/low ranged will have negative effect on the top end, which is the point of the high revving engine. Best exhaust upgrade is replacing cat with test pipe/hfc.
I see your point but I am going to have to disagree. The dyno results of all this yielded really good results and proves there is still meat on the table over the stock. I am very happy with the new setup. Stay tuned for more videos coming soon!
@@TheSlipAngle we've literally dyno'd ALL available headers HUNDREDS of times on 91, E85, & beyond there is no "meat on the table" even our record breaking race car uses the stock manifold. It's not uncommon to get false results on a dyno.
@@RockstarGarageS2K Can you share your dyno results of all of these available headers that you've tested? The entire S2000 community would greatly benefit from this. If what you are saying is accurate, then it would be extremely helpful information to make publicly available.
@@SUPRAP2 glad the ENTIRE S2000 community is interested. Here's a the first video to a short series we've been putting together. th-cam.com/video/34tuRF0x0CU/w-d-xo.html freshly rebuilt f20c, J's Racing header, HKS Single, BC built head, AEM ecu, and other goodies. F22 is a little different and can make a few HP, but overall the stock header is THE best. We have a record breaking track car that uses the stock header.
@@RockstarGarageS2K it would only take 5 minutes of your time to find a few dyno charts supporting your claim (especially if you have thousands to choose from) and share them with us. Unfortunately we can already see that you won't. This is one of our biggest problems in the S2000 community. We have a majority of owners and shops both spreading information on subjects that they're unwilling to provide fact based data to support. For every question that gets asked, 98% of the responses are people that will say no it can't be done or it doesn't exist or OEM is best or driver mod bro. Kind of shocking considering how parts for the S2000 are not expensive. Our community would rather say "nah bro that shit won't work" than "try this product I heard good things about it and here's the dyno!" As one of the primary shops for the S2000 I'd figure that you guys wouldn't do the same thing as the other 26 year olds with 285K miles on their AP1 scraping the concrete in LA.
The stepped primaries and runner lengths on the Ballade are not the same size as the Hytech so I wouldn't call this a replica. I don't have any data on the PLM, but I thought it was a J's replica.
@@TheSlipAngle if you have the measurements I'd like to see that..I went from a ballade to hytech header they're identical aside from the secondaries being shorter on the ballade. The plm race header and ballade also look identical except one is half the price
I'd be interested as there is NO information around the internet if the ballade header fits RHD S2000. I know for a fact that J's fit RHD but does the Ballade protrude much more outwards from the engine where it might hit the RHD steering column.
I'm not sold on it. I did it to a couple turbo manifolds but still ended up wrapping them. Anytime you do stuff like that to minimize heat it stresses the manifold more.
@@TheSlipAngle how much are you selling it for? Debating between both the manifolds you talked about but my current exhaust set up is a full titanium exhaust from j's racing
Great Head(ers)....cant beat it or them.... ? omg guys 4k..... I have new internet... I can see everything.... spots on quinns face....everything... N x
Based on the S2000 firing order (1,3,4,2), that pairing on the new header is the main reason for the increased power. Merging 1&3 /4&2 keeps the exhaust pulses exactly 180 degrees apart. This way when the the two runners merge at the 1st collector, you don't have exhaust gases colliding with the other runner as that runners exhaust has already cleared the area. Ideally, you want all the exhaust gases to smoothly merge together while staying equally spaced apart. Kinda like 4 lanes of traffic merging into 2 lanes and then to 1. If everyone is spaced properly, that transition happens smoothy with not too much slow down.
That is actually one of my bucket lists in life. To see a 4 Lane smoothly merge to a two lane, smoothly merge to a one lane. It would be a once in a lifetime Christmas Miracle! Lol
In wondering if it's contributing to the reduction in midrange someone else commented below, however? I could be off the mark here because tracking exhaust pulses still does my head in, but with cylinders 1 & 4, and 2 & 3 paired, when 3 opens the exhaust gas has to go all the way to the final merge collector before it can try to get into cylinder 1 for reversion. But if 1 & 3 are paired, isn't that a shorter route?
@@travisswanson3449 Radar assisted automated driving at a large scale is the only way that will happen.
@@ftovr2957 I don't think it's a question of a shorter route (because all the runners are equal length). I think it's just the TIMING of when those pulses meet each other. It seems in a 4,2,1 setup, you have to time the pulses to the 1st collector properly 1st before even worrying about what happens at the main collector. The length of the 2 to 1 section should also play roll. I've always had a problem figuring this out myself but for some reason after seeing these two headers side by side and looking up the S2000 firing order, my brain is starting to visualize what's going on inside. Similarly wizardry is going on with those headers on the new C8 Z06 so it's starting to make sense. I've always wanted to build a 4,2,1 setup for an NA Mazda 4 rotor and now I have an idea on how to do it when I start experimenting. We need some exhaust pulse animations to give us a visual.
@@rotaryperfection Yeah, having four things going on at once is a bit much for the ol brain sometimes lol. I'm just going off the helpful diagram Mazda made in relation to their Skyactiv engines, which utilise a long 4-2-1 header precisely to avoid gas reversion (although where emissions isn't concerned, a long enough 4-1 does the same thing with different scavenging timing from what I've read. By shorter route, I mean less in terms of the actual primaries, but the route between the one that is pushing gas out, and the one that finishing but still open. So the pulses may be more equal, but for the J's header, exhaust gas that's leaving cyl3 has to pass both the first merge collector paired with cyl2, and the second merge, before it has a chance of travelling back up to cyl1 that is closing but still open. Where the Ballade, since cyl3 and cyl1 are joined, only has to pass the first join. But I'm definitely no expert on it, just curious about the results.
Will watch every episode of the ap1 NA build as I may want to copy you a little bit hehe
It's so rare to see a youtuber not aiming for big hp and turbo but more with a NA and plaisur built in mind !!! Just like I like it 😂
This is my life 😂
@@TheSlipAngle I love all your built!! Espacialy the miata !! It sound so good !!!
the way you drive and all the little reference to best motoring international is perfect Hehe I guess what I am trying to say is; you guys are doing a great job !!
Tks a lot for this channel !
(Sorry for my english.. I'm a french canadian)
@@qc-sunbro3066 thank you brother 🙌 we're glad you're here
To add to the flow you can get the header JetHot coated as they coat the inside as well as the outside!!! On top of the they stay Much Cooler! I have been using JetHot since the early 1980's. Their coating is guaranteed for life as well!!! They do an Outstanding job. I'm going to coat everything I can on my NA. I'm even going to coat the trans housing and diff housing as well as the sub-frames because the exhaust runs through them. I've notice that the Miata crowd (in general) don't use JetHot and with everyone being so censored about heat in the engine bay, I don't understand why more people within the Miata community doesn't use it. Best Always and in ALL WAYS,
Where can I find this stuff ?
Hi, do you have the dyno results with those two headers? Keen to see the difference
Love the technical theory! Keep making these killer videos!
Thank you 🙌
I do think the timing gear is going to be beneficial in your case but when I tested the Ballade header vs a J's Replica PLM header the PLM had gains EVERYWHERE with better exhaust scavenging and it was also lighter like J's.
The Ballade one however was a bit quieter after some clearancing for the head shield.
Mine however doesn't have the Spoon headgasket or a milled head so I don't have the extra compression and I have a Max Bore throttle body instead of Skunk2.
I know this setup is going to be better but the header I believe is holding it back.
That's interesting. Do you have dynos for them? What were you tuning with?
@@TheSlipAngle I probably have them saved on my computer as it's been a couple of years. I believe I posted them on S2ki if I can recall my old screen name.
My AP1 is the typical AutoX STR build.
I have just a AP1 with the Karcepts E-Manage setup and we tweaked the tune a bit. Using a HFC and 75mm HKS exhaust on OEM header we managed to get a 210-215 HP baseline with about 140tq but a more linear line with VTEC at 4000rpm that feels great.
When I tried the Ballade header I did lose about 10-15hp below 4600 then around 5200+ it had 8-15 horsepower. Gains were impressive up top. Peak torque was 144 after 3 runs.
When I tried the J's Replica I managed to gain +10hp and +7tq from 3000-5000 then it was a flat increase up to redline of about +8-12 horsepower with torque peaking at 148 after 3 runs.
The Ballade header did make more peak power but the loss in midrange with my setup was what made me not like it as the gains were really only better in a 500rpm window near the top.
I have added a Fluidampr and played with intakes since then. With a test pipe and a Whale Penis intake on the same Dyno on a 86⁰F day I did make 238HP at the wheels and 149TQ but the engine runs much smoother.
@@DirtDude117 perhaps Ballades exhaust manifold is beneficial for SC? But on that note we probably have better exhaust manifolds as well... Interesting read, thank you.
Love the video, as always another fantasticc content from the internets busiest Honda nerd.
Thank you brother 🙌
The pairing is also used on the hytech, urge, and plm race headers. Definitely more low mid range punch with these headers
All of your cars seem so flawless and reliable. Have you had any cars in the past that were a reliability nightmares?
I've been pretty fortunate. My Fd RX7 has had the most stupid issues lol 😆
@@TheSlipAngle understandable. It's probably one of the older cars you have so that makes sense. that's good to hear though. I didn't know if you had been burdened in the past that made you seek out peak examples rather than fixer-uppers.
2004 AP2 /42k miles
Comptech intake
70mm test pipe
70mm Single T1R Exhaust
Stock Header
AEM V2 ECU
Tuned by Jeff Evans
241 WHP.
love the s2000 content!! from my experience the Bc stage2 cams are the best but i want to see the difference between ballade sports very interesting.
You should do another video with the new ballade sports race header.
Great Video as always. We need a side to side comparison with your miata ASAP.
Poor ITB Miata is going to get spanked lol. The 13b Miata might be a better contender.
i noticed how did get a one piece ballade header?
F22c provides that extra hp and torque down low. 10-15+ across the range. Stock head flows to much for the 2l but really helps the 2.2l once modded and tuned.
My experience with the Ballade cams on my tuned f22: no top end gains, shift of power down low..could lower vtec even more and gained some good torque and hp down low.
Interesting
Good video👍🏻 This is the tri-y or k-series?
It's the only header they make for for the F Series S2000s. Tri-Y is just another name for 4-2-1 design.
Where do you get all those cool green bolts from?
Password JDM and eBay
The S2K is already maxed out from factory, your basic N/A upgrades are for weight saving & aesthetics only(And often times you will lose hp). There is NO header out there that performs better than OEM. Headers that increase mid/low ranged will have negative effect on the top end, which is the point of the high revving engine. Best exhaust upgrade is replacing cat with test pipe/hfc.
I see your point but I am going to have to disagree. The dyno results of all this yielded really good results and proves there is still meat on the table over the stock. I am very happy with the new setup. Stay tuned for more videos coming soon!
@@TheSlipAngle we've literally dyno'd ALL available headers HUNDREDS of times on 91, E85, & beyond there is no "meat on the table" even our record breaking race car uses the stock manifold. It's not uncommon to get false results on a dyno.
@@RockstarGarageS2K Can you share your dyno results of all of these available headers that you've tested? The entire S2000 community would greatly benefit from this. If what you are saying is accurate, then it would be extremely helpful information to make publicly available.
@@SUPRAP2 glad the ENTIRE S2000 community is interested. Here's a the first video to a short series we've been putting together. th-cam.com/video/34tuRF0x0CU/w-d-xo.html
freshly rebuilt f20c, J's Racing header, HKS Single, BC built head, AEM ecu, and other goodies.
F22 is a little different and can make a few HP, but overall the stock header is THE best. We have a record breaking track car that uses the stock header.
@@RockstarGarageS2K it would only take 5 minutes of your time to find a few dyno charts supporting your claim (especially if you have thousands to choose from) and share them with us. Unfortunately we can already see that you won't. This is one of our biggest problems in the S2000 community. We have a majority of owners and shops both spreading information on subjects that they're unwilling to provide fact based data to support. For every question that gets asked, 98% of the responses are people that will say no it can't be done or it doesn't exist or OEM is best or driver mod bro. Kind of shocking considering how parts for the S2000 are not expensive. Our community would rather say "nah bro that shit won't work" than "try this product I heard good things about it and here's the dyno!"
As one of the primary shops for the S2000 I'd figure that you guys wouldn't do the same thing as the other 26 year olds with 285K miles on their AP1 scraping the concrete in LA.
id like to see if theres a difference between the ballade and plm header since theyre both hytech reps and plm is half the price of the ballade header
The stepped primaries and runner lengths on the Ballade are not the same size as the Hytech so I wouldn't call this a replica. I don't have any data on the PLM, but I thought it was a J's replica.
@@TheSlipAngle if you have the measurements I'd like to see that..I went from a ballade to hytech header they're identical aside from the secondaries being shorter on the ballade. The plm race header and ballade also look identical except one is half the price
So, did it made an impact on the exhaust sound?
Yes! Sounds very different now.
@@TheSlipAngle any detail on the change you can share?
is it the video angle or one is 4-2-1 and the other is 4-1 . if so, 4-2-1 will be better @ low to mid rpm because 4-2
They are both 4-2-1
I'd be interested as there is NO information around the internet if the ballade header fits RHD S2000. I know for a fact that J's fit RHD but does the Ballade protrude much more outwards from the engine where it might hit the RHD steering column.
We have local rhd car with the balladesports header, the steering column makes contact with the header.
The Ballade cams are regrinded oem cams, you will see once you make the valve adjustment ;)
Oems are good. Nice and light 😉
Oems are good. Nice and light
Consider getting it ceramic coated to maximize scavenging and minimize underhood heat
I'm not sold on it. I did it to a couple turbo manifolds but still ended up wrapping them. Anytime you do stuff like that to minimize heat it stresses the manifold more.
@@TheSlipAngle Fair enough up to you. Its an NA build though so it can probably handle the heat
Good content, more shenanigans please! 😂
It's coming!
is the js up for sale sir? lol great uploads regarding the NA s2000. I enjoy your channel very much, keep it going
Yes it is!
@@TheSlipAngle name your price? 😆 ballade sounds like it gave you better gains but js it's lighter, I would need a new gasket right?
Thanks for the info. Clean cars my guy🤙🏽
Thank you!
Great video 👍🏻
🙌
J's racing looks prettier, but hopefully the ballade header actually performs better!
As a second comment, I don't want to get a header of myself, but this is interesting.
I cam say, I agree with you.
Lol
@@mattwiser7982 Lol, you seem pretty rod man. We should crank up the comments just for this, lol.
@@TheSlipAngle I have to say, that video on the LFX RX-8 is pretty rod man. I can't wait to see what you guys crank out next. Lol
Nice verse
Sweet
You’re using the word ignorant completely wrong, probably because LZ has been for weeks :(
huh?
I told you you are way too close to the microphone 😏
I wanted to make sure you could hearrrrrr meeee 😉
Weekly content...
This series will be weekly until it ends!
Let me buy that J's racing header off you for my s2k lol
It's for sale
@@TheSlipAngle how much are you selling it for? Debating between both the manifolds you talked about but my current exhaust set up is a full titanium exhaust from j's racing
MONTANA plates, LOL!
Oh are you from Montana also? 🙂
Great Head(ers)....cant beat it or them.... ?
omg guys 4k..... I have new internet...
I can see everything.... spots on quinns face....everything...
N x
Lol awesome buddy! 🍳🍑👾🤙🙌
First
Wtf man no comparison video?🤦🏽♂️ why’d I even click on the video? To learn they pair different primaries. Smh…
There's a dyno video of the new setup vs the old....
No dyno👎
Sounds like you didn't watch the series