Good evening Roger just to say a very big thank you mate 👍 we have been without heating and hot water for five days and after calling what was meant to be a reputable company out at a £100 just to walk in the door he then gave an estimate to replace the water pump for £ 581. 22p ! With your easy to follow video I have managed to replace the water pump for £83.00 so a very big thank you from me but most of all a very big thank you for me very could wife and too teenage daughter's ,in fact my youngest daughter is going for a shower 🚿 now. So thank you again Roger 👍 Keith the Roof
Thanks for that Rodger, without replacing the unions, I think most ppl could do this. Replacing the unions adds a complexity, which possibly deserves another video?
Roger, respect to your services in the trade. We did meet 30 years ago when you did an article on one of my systems. However, I would never trust ball type valves, always replace. I would also bung the header tank and do one valve at a time rather than drain down, but I realise you are teaching the DIYers.
It's amazing how different the central heating systems are compared to ur huge units in the US. I have a lot of videos on my channel on our systems but I really like the compact size and efficiency of your stuff. Great videos too!
I’m glad you gave the first tip of tapping it with a hammer. Probably saved me $180 in replacement pumps. Wish I had known that before replacing my last one...
Thanks for pointing out the isolation valves, the housing on my circulation pump cracked, and has been leaking water. The isolation valves have allowed me to stem the leak while im waiting for a replacement.
Hi Roger - One thing worth mentioning is that the length of the Perfect Pump valves you have fitted are slightly longer than the normal valves. If there is no movement in the pipe work you will have to cut one of the pipes to make them fit. But far superior to the standard gate type valve in my opinion.
I remember years ago in the 1990's we had a "Grondfos Selectric 3" pump upstairs right by the hot water expansion tank in a cupboard in the bathroom, this pump was similar to the ones in your video and would always jam and make a loud humming sound... the tell tale that something was wrong was all the downstairs radiators would be stone cold whilst the ones upstairs were red hot ! - I found that there is a vent valve at the rear of the pump head where you could use a large straight screw driver (or even a 2 pence piece if this vent valve was loose enough lol).. With the heating off I would remove this brass/steel valve plug and there would be a tiny bit of water that would drip down, but this would then give full access to the rear part of the motor's DRIVE shaft which had a slot in it to accept a screwdriver ! - If you insert the screwdriver into this slot and turn it a few turns left and right, (you may need a little bit of force if the shaft / impellor is stuck or seized) but this definitely used to work and the pump would run OK after this for a while keeping the whole house warm and my mum happy ! - Great video and demo ! - Love the new style unions they sell nowadays compared to the older ones where you would insert a straight screwdriver in them to isolate the water at both sides of the pump before working on it...
Thanks for that, you can often get a jammed pump up and running with the screwdriver in the impeller slot but often the thing that jams the pump is a build up of sludge inside the pump or even rust due to cavitation.
@@SkillBuilder Yes, Sludge from the tank and radiators is definitely bad for any of these pumps and leads to a cold house and expensive repairs ! "Fernox" (I think that's how it's spelt ?) is good for flushing out the system every few years to keep things clean and running smoothly ! - Also if you isolate the power to the pump, and isolate both pump unions and you have a allen key set and some high temperature sealant, it may well be possible to undo the 4 allen (or sometimes 2 allen screws) and remove the pump head/motor assembly and then free it up by turning it by the impellor by hand and also cleaning any remaining sludge in the cast iron pump body before putting the pump head back again in place and making sure it's sealed well as they also have the same poor quality rubber washers as those unions that parish from the heat and age.
Temporary fix is change the speed of the pump, it should get going, mine just stopped again after 2 months but managed to start it the same way until the new pump arrives. Hope this helps someone.
My issue is our pump must have been off for years without our knowledge (in the basement). That left the bottom bedroom freezing and we never got a fix until we had a plumber come and noticed there was a pump in the basement. He suggested a electrician come and get it connected up to electric again (some cowboy removed it from mains). Anyways it was flying for weeks and now suddenly it's not. The pump is very warm and seems to be moving water but not to the rads down in the bedroom. Changing speed hasn't fixed it. We are at a lose as the pump seems fine.
Great, a jod I can do myself, can I switch all the electric off, and the main water supply under the sink, as feel safer...will I have to bleed the system now there will be air in the pipes..?.thanks for a great video.....!
Interesting video. You didn't mention that Grundfoss pumps allow access to the motor shaft (via that big chromed screw cap) which has a slot in the end so that the pump can be freed up using a screw driver if seized after along period of no use e.g. in the Autumn on a CH only system. Worcester boilers run the pump for a about 5 seconds every 24 hours to guard against pump seizure (which I think is a bit over the top, once a week or month may be since running the pump for this reason can waste some energy on certain systems by pumping a slug of cold water into the hot water cylinder coil for example). Interesting what you say about the isolating valve glands usually giving trouble when disturbed after many years; would be quite a straightforward job otherwise. Totally with you regarding the Potterton Netaheat range of boilers; I would bet that there are some still going after 25 years of service with little trouble although inefficient by todays standards of course.
I have this job to do as the pump valves are weeping. As I have a cyclone filter below to pump could I isolate the feed to the attic tank and only drain the system down from the cyclone filter?
I had the same pump on my back boiler stove..had to replace it, all the heat merchants had were the evo eco type one with loads of different settings... It hasn't worked since... I must trying getting one of these old type pumps off eBay and change it myself...cheers lads
Wondering about the lock off valves either side of the pump; I am unsure if they are locked off because the screw just keeps turning? Any help would be great!!
Hi Roger, imagine this system you are repairing here is the type that has a loft top up tank, couldn`t help but notice prior to draining off down to pump level that you didn`t instruct us to shut off the refill on that top up tank. Thx, Tony
Yes you are right Tony. The trouble is that this was supposed to be a pump change just on the valves but it grew and I wasn't able to think about the filming as I should have. It is always a balance between doing the work and filming.
Thanks for responding Roger, yes that makes sense and can understand how that would occur. I appreciate your presentations, keep up the great education.
Thank you so much. Firstly we didn't know what a central heating pump was nor where to find it!, then following your tip, we gave it a tap with a hammer, and bingo_ pump and boiler started working again. You are a star and have saved us a fortune! :)
This is super helpful advice, and a much cleaner way of testing whether the valves aren't holding, thanks! For anyone wondering, the bleed screw is the big silver screw in the middle of the pump.
my pump rotor had seized up. I manually freed it up (remove the four small allen bolts...) and connected up the pump again. it works fine now. we'll see how long it lasts. the thing is that this pump only runs during winter, so i wonder how often rotors sieze up inpumps that are used only seasonally.
Great video !! But I noticed the original defective pump was a Bronze (yellow body) and you replaced it with a cast iron body pump (red casing). Is there any reason you did not replace it with a Bronze or Stainless pump ?, or why you just did not replace the pump head to avoid having to change the valves ?
I have 2 of those central heating pumps, and the valves ( gate valves?) that goes into them and comes out of both leak drip drip constantly. I think they're about 25 yrs old, and are in a right state. There's no isolation valves on them so can't turn them off. I have a hot water/ cold cylinder (elsan?)upstairs in the airing cupboard,, and the boiler is downstairs. I've tried tightening up the nuts but one is worse now! Drips faster oops. I need to buy 4 new ones I think. Im a numpty woman, but I have a go thanks to videos like yours.
what made the pump to overheat, if it was not circulating ? I usually found that the impeller has stuck which makes the motor housing hot, especially if the water either side of the pump is cooler, you could have removed the big crome plated screw in the center of the pump and tried rotate the impeller with screw driver, not saying that is what was wrong with the pump.but worth a try.
Roger brilliant as always but surprised you didn't mention capacitor inside electrical part of pump, they are only a fiver or so and easily checked and replaced. Any electrical appliance that has one, e.g.. Dryer, maybe washing machine, pumps etc. Check/ replace this first. Easy and low cost. I replaced on my pump working fine now. They are like a battery they degrade over time
Hi Roger Thanks for uploading the video, very enjoyable and a good learning experience. I have a friend who is a long, time served plumber and heating engineer. He was saying, you can replace the heads in the pump, is this a difficult job or a false economy. are you better off just replacing the whole unit. Happy Easter and all the best from Glasgow.
Tapping may not free a jammed impeller. Undo the access cover (coin or large screwdriver) and you'll see the end of the spindle has a slot for a screwdriver. If it won't spin, there's the issue. Work it back and forth until it's free and hope the piece of grit or scale that caused it ends up safely lodged in the bottom of a radiator or somewhere. There's no need to drain the system and it may save you a big job.
I gave that advice once when I worked for the BBC and a viewer opened the silver access plug and hot water came out and scalded them. Apparently I should have given the warning that there might be hot water in the pump. Since then I have advised tapping it gently, most of the time it works.
im without heat here and the plumber came friday and the pump needs replacing, he said "we are in trouble here, where are your tanks, we will need to bleed the system and replace the pump, i will have to get another man back with me" and is not coming back til sometime this week, he has me so worried that im anticipating this is a thousand pound job...is this really the case or is it as seemingly easy as you have shown? ( i mean easy for you as an expert) i could do with some advice please.
Hi Roger. Have installed the very same pump but need to set it to the second setting. Does the pump automatically do this as I can't seem to change it, even with a press of the green illuminated button! Thanks.
As for the old boiler. Too right, keep it. In my last house I had a wall mounted Ideal Standard boiler with cast iron heat exchanger. It was in the house when I moved in, and in the 27 years I lived there I only ever had to change a thermocouple and replace the O rings between the two halves of the boiler castings. It may have used a little more gas than a modern boiler, but not a huge amount, but apart from that it cost next to nothing to run. No dedicated pump, no ignition device, no fan or pcb to fail etc. It would keep the house nice and warm with the boiler stat on 1 or 2 with the heating on 24hr tick over in the coldest months.
"It may have used a little more gas than a modern boiler, but not a huge amount, but apart from that it cost next to nothing to run" Really? Your 30 year old boiler was probably 60% efficient when first installed, over 30 years of use, that would easily bring the efficiency down to 50%, modern condensing boilers run at 92-94% efficient ErP. so straight away saving you 50% on your gas bill.... And btw. netaheat boilers are a bag of crap, ask any service & repair engineer.
Hi I have a Worcester boiler 35CDi greenstar the hot water only works if the pump is on permanently on if I put it back to factory settings and turn on the hot water the temperature rises very fast and the boiler locks out does the pump work for heating and hot water or just heating I’ve had loads of engineers looking at this boiler and no fix parts that have been changed plate heat exchanger new mother board new expansion vessel the diverter valve opens when it’s calling for hot water
Ever single pump (ball valve union) i have turned off, never never works ever. i drain down to below the pump then change valves and pump.. job done. also check the water quality ifits brown or black you will be back in 6months to change again, advise them to have a magnetic cleaner,,,,
Hi Roger - did you have to cut the pipe a little to fit in those Ball Valves? I'm finding that they are slightly longer than the gate type of valves I am replacing. Thanks!
I have a pair of these on a closed loop for a ground source heat pump, and there's a bit of air in the loop .. can these pumps be vented at all? Open the screw on the head while its running?
Got this problem right now. I don't have the confidence to take it apart so I'll wait for the bloke who checks my boiler every year to come look at it in a couple of days, but I've given it a tap wit ha hammer and we'll see if that helps!
I got an old style boiler in my flat the hot water pressure is terrible. I do not have a pump fitted. Can I buy a pump like this 1 and get someone to plumb and wire it in? If so how much you reckon I'm looking at? Thank you
I've cleaned the sludge out my downstairs rads cleaned my header tank out ran some cleaner for a week and then drained the system and let it run through a pipe the cleaner must have worked because it stopped the kettling noises straight awa y .Now i suspect my pump is either weak or jammed with remaining sludge because some of my rads aren't getting as warm as before especially downstairs .
The cleaner has moved the sludge to the low spots. You now have to remove the rads so you can hose them through. You will be amazed by the crap that comes out. Once done you will have a really good system. British Gas would charge you £500 for this.
Someone replaced the pump and cleaned a pipe near the pump. The rad in bathroom near pump is working. It took hours for the bedroom rads to get hot except one in bedroom. I waited until morning but rads downstairs still not hot. The timer is on on has advised and only c/h mode. Anymore advice as suggested by man who fitted it it needs a full flush. I did that 3 years ago. Surely it doesn’t need it again
H Roger -- really like your videos -- tell your mate to get you tovservicevthat POTTERTON netta heat every year co the combustion chamber is under possitive pressure from the fan + can be dangerous if the casing seals are faulty !!! -- even better get a new boiler !!! -
Mine is the same pump and screeching it gets red hot and not getting no heating to the radiators could mine be jammed and freed with screw driver or should I get a replace ment and also my electric motorised white box is broken can any one give me any tips please
My boiler is working ok most of radiators downstairs are working … 3 radiators in my son’s room aren’t working.. pressure is 1 bar .. bleed no air in them .. the pump is pretty warm how would I know if it isn’t working properly?
I have a 20+ year old potterton Housewarmer Back boiler. I have just replaced my 15+ year old Grundfos pump as it was making surging noises. Now my Burner keeps going out prematurely and then locking out. I am thinking that I have dislodged some sludge/magnetite that has now entered my heat exchange with the extra power of the new pump. Could I be right? I recently hoovered all my back boiler and burner blade out so I know that's not the issue.
It would seem to me that you have no circulation at all in the boiler. Check the flow direction and the valves. If that doesn't help you could flush the whole system through. Back boilers are usually not low water content so they should be better than most in terms of staying clear.
@@SkillBuilder Thanks, thing is for the first week of me swapping the pump it ran great, got nice and hot and no issues with locking out or anything. Today I have changed the Oxipilot ignition thingy and I have also fitted a new thermostat. I have also drained the system and refilled but nothing really came out other than clear water. Still not lighting or going out. I'm waiting for some cleaner and inhibitor to come. Only other idea I have is that could my Honeywell gas valve be broken? perhaps it isn't working and letting the gas through for the boiler to light? I'll be corgi registered by the time I am done with this!
Hi Ray I am afraid that air locks are a fact of life. If the system is well designed it should self vent to the radiators but high spots with no bleed points are difficult. I have spent many hours clearing airlocks and they can turn a one hour job into a three hour job. I am afraid the airlocks belong to the customer not the plumber and in the past I have been far too generous on this and walked away with less money than I deserved. If the customer is a good regular customer I will swallow it to keep them sweet but on a one-off job it is my policy to charge the customer for my time. Best thing is if the plumber warns you before draining down that it could go badly.
@@SkillBuilder Forgot to mention Paid out £540 last Friday thinking all was well but after trying to rectify the young fitter said the pump was no good and there were air locks then left as it was weekend.
Any decent fitter will make sure theres no air locks so I disagree 100% it's a customer issue. Given gents age its disgusting anybody would leave until systems running perfect and hes happy.
Ball-o-fix type pump valve unions always leak, see them replace them for gate valve type. Copper grease the union threads to ease replacement next time! Best practice, remove head and rotate so electrical connection comes in from underneath, more professional job that will avoid any water ingress if there’s ever a leak! Don’t forget to replace your washer on the drain off!!!
@@SkillBuilder ok, mine is hot hot, and only luke warm rads downstairs. Pump might be suspect. Doesnt look too bad a job to replace, just the risk of the weeping valves as mine is an old / original pump. Ive checked almost everything else and new rads throughout.
Nice job. Done it myself but pump idolaters were crap cheap gate valves that passed - had to drain system. Ball valves are far superior even though they cost a tad more - well worth it.
I loathe, hate and detest those balofix globe valve type pump unions. They always leak from the O ring seal on the shaft. All I can think is that after years and years of not moving the O ring sticks to the shaft, so when you turn it, it tears a bit never to seal again. Much prefer the gate valve type, at least if they do weep you can pinch up the packing gland, or if needs be use a few twists of PTFE tape to add some stuffing to the gland seal. I always carried a spare pair of valves in the van when I worked in London, it wasn't worth the grief of driving across London just to get a pair from Fulham Heating.
Does one cover oneself for the extra expense of the glands, labour, running around by giving a conditional estimate? also did you mention making sure the pump electrical power is removed before working on it? Although that is a given, if the pump is bunt out it still might be live.
Yes, I isolated the power at the beginning. As for all the running around etc. most of the time I am on the clock so whatever time I spend on the job is charged for. It is one of those things you just have to establish with the customer. If you replace the pump that is one job, if the glands leak and you replace the valves that is another job. If the customer isn't happy then just take the money for the pump job and leave the glands leaking. I have had someone say that the valves were fine until I touched them but you always get those kind of people. You learn to filter them out before the job. If they begin the conversation with "How much?" I just tell them I am too busy.
I also keep one of those wireless voltage sensor marker-pen shaped goodies handy to do a final check that there is no live circuits before touching anything
Roger... would u consider a light smear of vaseline on those rubber washers ?? Also... any thoughts on using liquid ptfe ( in general plumbing ) instead of the tape which can be a pain sometimes ?? Loving the vids, I'm refurbing a stone cottage on the west coast of Ireland & having a ball learning the trades from people like your goodself... Thanks & keep up the good work man... ☘️☘️☘️
Hi,hoping somebody can help,having problems with my boiler,last night the boiler tripped the electricty,the plumber is trying to push me to get a whole new boiler rather than replace the pump and diverter,he said it's the pump that is making the electricity trip,this doesn't sound logical to me,searched online and can't find anybody who talks about the pump tripping the elecricity! is it possible?
It can happen but you can easily wire a pump up on a 3 pin plug and check it independently. It is also likely that a slight trace of moisture on a motorised valve can cause the RCD to trip.
@@SkillBuilder Hi,thanks for the reply☺had a closer look at it and there's water drops coming from the inside of the wiring/electrical part!! the plumber said the seal must've worn away and that's how the water has gootten to the electrical wires!!that seems like a disastrous design flaw!,i'll have a proper look when he replaces it tomorrow,thanks again.
Thanks for the videos. As an amateur, I've done a bit of plumbing of all sorts. If that had been me I'd have tried 2 fibre washers and joint compound. What do you think? Wasting my time?
GrumpyGrampa I think the leak was from the isolation glands rather than the union connections themselves so needed to be replaced. Good to see the job done properly, plenty would have tried to bodge that and walk away. 👍🏻
Put the price up by 50quid! A bit generous Roger, if I have to drain down it's £100 minimum. Have to cover the cost of adding back inhibitors and the inevitable time to get all the airlocks out.
Why would you have to drain down to change the pump valves when it’s only gravity so can easily be snatched an if your not confident in snatching bung the tank
@@Steve-jh6oz Draining down also allows you to remove debris. It's not exactly hard, I did 8 whole-system drain downs today (6 on one side of the removed radiator, 2 on the other side), and a couple more tomorrow after running the pump. Then I will put in the new pump. I want that water good enough to drink. I noticed the pump spent a lot of time running, so I am putting in a modern low consumption model that will half the electricity cost.
@@SkillBuilder so, you either forgot to video it or it was a complete bugger of a job getting the new washers and pump into place and you didn't want to show yourself struggling with it. Either way, it makes the video far less useful. But your response to a correct comment says it all really.
Yes an excellent presentation which is REAL and PRACTICAL. Jobs like this are never straightforward and you didn't hide that fact.
Good evening Roger just to say a very big thank you mate 👍 we have been without heating and hot water for five days and after calling what was meant to be a reputable company out at a £100 just to walk in the door he then gave an estimate to replace the water pump for £ 581. 22p ! With your easy to follow video I have managed to replace the water pump for £83.00 so a very big thank you from me but most of all a very big thank you for me very could wife and too teenage daughter's ,in fact my youngest daughter is going for a shower 🚿 now. So thank you again Roger 👍 Keith the Roof
Thanks for that Rodger, without replacing the unions, I think most ppl could do this. Replacing the unions adds a complexity, which possibly deserves another video?
Thank you for the video Roger. We tried tapping the pump first before replacing it. Worked like a charm!
Glad it helped
Absolutely brilliant, that just give it a tap piece of advice just saved me £100 for a replacement pump, thank you for that.
Roger, respect to your services in the trade. We did meet 30 years ago when you did an article on one of my systems.
However, I would never trust ball type valves, always replace. I would also bung the header tank and do one valve at a time rather than drain down, but I realise you are teaching the DIYers.
Best replaced with what part ?
How can you keep the water there while replacing a single valve?
It's amazing how different the central heating systems are compared to ur huge units in the US. I have a lot of videos on my channel on our systems but I really like the compact size and efficiency of your stuff. Great videos too!
I’m glad you gave the first tip of tapping it with a hammer. Probably saved me $180 in replacement pumps. Wish I had known that before replacing my last one...
Thanks for pointing out the isolation valves, the housing on my circulation pump cracked, and has been leaking water. The isolation valves have allowed me to stem the leak while im waiting for a replacement.
Glad it helped
Nice one Roger, gave it a little tap all round the pump 🔨🤞, worked a charm. Saved me a call out for the plumber. 🙂👍
Hi Roger - One thing worth mentioning is that the length of the Perfect Pump valves you have fitted are slightly longer than the normal valves. If there is no movement in the pipe work you will have to cut one of the pipes to make them fit. But far superior to the standard gate type valve in my opinion.
Thanks, fixed mine 👍
How do you know what radiator to bleed in the house as you didn't say and what was the last bit you where showing with the to valves thank you
I remember years ago in the 1990's we had a "Grondfos Selectric 3" pump upstairs right by the hot water expansion tank in a cupboard in the bathroom, this pump was similar to the ones in your video and would always jam and make a loud humming sound... the tell tale that something was wrong was all the downstairs radiators would be stone cold whilst the ones upstairs were red hot ! - I found that there is a vent valve at the rear of the pump head where you could use a large straight screw driver (or even a 2 pence piece if this vent valve was loose enough lol).. With the heating off I would remove this brass/steel valve plug and there would be a tiny bit of water that would drip down, but this would then give full access to the rear part of the motor's DRIVE shaft which had a slot in it to accept a screwdriver ! - If you insert the screwdriver into this slot and turn it a few turns left and right, (you may need a little bit of force if the shaft / impellor is stuck or seized) but this definitely used to work and the pump would run OK after this for a while keeping the whole house warm and my mum happy ! - Great video and demo ! - Love the new style unions they sell nowadays compared to the older ones where you would insert a straight screwdriver in them to isolate the water at both sides of the pump before working on it...
Thanks for that, you can often get a jammed pump up and running with the screwdriver in the impeller slot but often the thing that jams the pump is a build up of sludge inside the pump or even rust due to cavitation.
@@SkillBuilder Yes, Sludge from the tank and radiators is definitely bad for any of these pumps and leads to a cold house and expensive repairs ! "Fernox" (I think that's how it's spelt ?) is good for flushing out the system every few years to keep things clean and running smoothly ! - Also if you isolate the power to the pump, and isolate both pump unions and you have a allen key set and some high temperature sealant, it may well be possible to undo the 4 allen (or sometimes 2 allen screws) and remove the pump head/motor assembly and then free it up by turning it by the impellor by hand and also cleaning any remaining sludge in the cast iron pump body before putting the pump head back again in place and making sure it's sealed well as they also have the same poor quality rubber washers as those unions that parish from the heat and age.
Great video. Like the way you replaced valves as you knew what would happen.
Thanks 👍
Another great video, Roger. Thanks for sharing. Keep these coming please!
Brilliant...a few taps with the hammer and bingo!bThanks Roger
Temporary fix is change the speed of the pump, it should get going, mine just stopped again after 2 months but managed to start it the same way until the new pump arrives. Hope this helps someone.
My issue is our pump must have been off for years without our knowledge (in the basement). That left the bottom bedroom freezing and we never got a fix until we had a plumber come and noticed there was a pump in the basement. He suggested a electrician come and get it connected up to electric again (some cowboy removed it from mains). Anyways it was flying for weeks and now suddenly it's not. The pump is very warm and seems to be moving water but not to the rads down in the bedroom. Changing speed hasn't fixed it. We are at a lose as the pump seems fine.
Roger, Super video, I’ll be tackling the exact same job tomorrow, wish me luck.
Great, a jod I can do myself, can I switch all the electric off, and the main water supply under the sink, as feel safer...will I have to bleed the system now there will be air in the pipes..?.thanks for a great video.....!
Interesting video. You didn't mention that Grundfoss pumps allow access to the motor shaft (via that big chromed screw cap) which has a slot in the end so that the pump can be freed up using a screw driver if seized after along period of no use e.g. in the Autumn on a CH only system.
Worcester boilers run the pump for a about 5 seconds every 24 hours to guard against pump seizure (which I think is a bit over the top, once a week or month may be since running the pump for this reason can waste some energy on certain systems by pumping a slug of cold water into the hot water cylinder coil for example).
Interesting what you say about the isolating valve glands usually giving trouble when disturbed after many years; would be quite a straightforward job otherwise.
Totally with you regarding the Potterton Netaheat range of boilers; I would bet that there are some still going after 25 years of service with little trouble although inefficient by todays standards of course.
That is also writen in the instruction manual.
I have this job to do as the pump valves are weeping. As I have a cyclone filter below to pump could I isolate the feed to the attic tank and only drain the system down from the cyclone filter?
I had the same pump on my back boiler stove..had to replace it, all the heat merchants had were the evo eco type one with loads of different settings... It hasn't worked since... I must trying getting one of these old type pumps off eBay and change it myself...cheers lads
Wondering about the lock off valves either side of the pump;
I am unsure if they are locked off because the screw just keeps turning?
Any help would be great!!
Hi Roger, imagine this system you are repairing here is the type that has a loft top up tank, couldn`t help but notice prior to draining off down to pump level that you didn`t instruct us to shut off the refill on that top up tank. Thx, Tony
Yes you are right Tony. The trouble is that this was supposed to be a pump change just on the valves but it grew and I wasn't able to think about the filming as I should have. It is always a balance between doing the work and filming.
Thanks for responding Roger, yes that makes sense and can understand how that would occur. I appreciate your presentations, keep up the great education.
Thank you so much. Firstly we didn't know what a central heating pump was nor where to find it!, then following your tip, we gave it a tap with a hammer, and bingo_ pump and boiler started working again. You are a star and have saved us a fortune! :)
I always remove the bleed screw and that will tell you if the valves are holding before you crack the pump valves open.
This is super helpful advice, and a much cleaner way of testing whether the valves aren't holding, thanks! For anyone wondering, the bleed screw is the big silver screw in the middle of the pump.
Is it worth cleaning one out?do you have a video's on doing this or would you always just replace it.
my pump rotor had seized up. I manually freed it up (remove the four small allen bolts...) and connected up the pump again. it works fine now. we'll see how long it lasts. the thing is that this pump only runs during winter, so i wonder how often rotors sieze up inpumps that are used only seasonally.
Great video !! But I noticed the original defective pump was a Bronze (yellow body) and you replaced it with a cast iron body pump (red casing). Is there any reason you did not replace it with a Bronze or Stainless pump ?, or why you just did not replace the pump head to avoid having to change the valves ?
I have 2 of those central heating pumps, and the valves ( gate valves?) that goes into them and comes out of both leak drip drip constantly. I think they're about 25 yrs old, and are in a right state. There's no isolation valves on them so can't turn them off. I have a hot water/ cold cylinder (elsan?)upstairs in the airing cupboard,, and the boiler is downstairs. I've tried tightening up the nuts but one is worse now! Drips faster oops. I need to buy 4 new ones I think. Im a numpty woman, but I have a go thanks to videos like yours.
Hi Anna
I think the only answer is to drain the heating system and fit a couple of new valves. If they have lasted 25 years they have done well.
@@SkillBuilder thank you, they have ☺
"Drips faster..oops" i got a good laugh from your comment! Oooops
Sometimes you can put a screwdriver in to the pump spin it to get them going again
Do you need to switch off power for that
what made the pump to overheat, if it was not circulating ? I usually found that the impeller has stuck which makes the motor housing hot, especially if the water either side of the pump is cooler, you could have removed the big crome plated screw in the center of the pump and tried rotate the impeller with screw driver, not saying that is what was wrong with the pump.but worth a try.
You are right and we did do that. We made the video on replacing the pump but should have made on on fault finding first.
Roger brilliant as always but surprised you didn't mention capacitor inside electrical part of pump, they are only a fiver or so and easily checked and replaced. Any electrical appliance that has one, e.g.. Dryer, maybe washing machine, pumps etc. Check/ replace this first. Easy and low cost. I replaced on my pump working fine now. They are like a battery they degrade over time
Hi Roger
Thanks for uploading the video, very enjoyable and a good learning experience. I have a friend who is a long, time served plumber and heating engineer. He was saying, you can replace the heads in the pump, is this a difficult job or a false economy. are you better off just replacing the whole unit.
Happy Easter and all the best from Glasgow.
hi anything on the setup of a embrass peerless eclipse pump?air mode?
Tapping may not free a jammed impeller. Undo the access cover (coin or large screwdriver) and you'll see the end of the spindle has a slot for a screwdriver. If it won't spin, there's the issue. Work it back and forth until it's free and hope the piece of grit or scale that caused it ends up safely lodged in the bottom of a radiator or somewhere.
There's no need to drain the system and it may save you a big job.
I gave that advice once when I worked for the BBC and a viewer opened the silver access plug and hot water came out and scalded them. Apparently I should have given the warning that there might be hot water in the pump.
Since then I have advised tapping it gently, most of the time it works.
im without heat here and the plumber came friday and the pump needs replacing, he said "we are in trouble here, where are your tanks, we will need to bleed the system and replace the pump, i will have to get another man back with me" and is not coming back til sometime this week, he has me so worried that im anticipating this is a thousand pound job...is this really the case or is it as seemingly easy as you have shown? ( i mean easy for you as an expert) i could do with some advice please.
Hi Roger. Have installed the very same pump but need to set it to the second setting. Does the pump automatically do this as I can't seem to change it, even with a press of the green illuminated button! Thanks.
Roger, at the start you said turn the water off, do you mean turn the cold mains water off ? Thanks
Yes, to stop the header tank from filling as you drain
As for the old boiler. Too right, keep it. In my last house I had a wall mounted Ideal Standard boiler with cast iron heat exchanger. It was in the house when I moved in, and in the 27 years I lived there I only ever had to change a thermocouple and replace the O rings between the two halves of the boiler castings. It may have used a little more gas than a modern boiler, but not a huge amount, but apart from that it cost next to nothing to run. No dedicated pump, no ignition device, no fan or pcb to fail etc.
It would keep the house nice and warm with the boiler stat on 1 or 2 with the heating on 24hr tick over in the coldest months.
"It may have used a little more gas than a modern boiler, but not a huge amount, but apart from that it cost next to nothing to run"
Really? Your 30 year old boiler was probably 60% efficient when first installed, over 30 years of use, that would easily bring the efficiency down to 50%, modern condensing boilers run at 92-94% efficient ErP. so straight away saving you 50% on your gas bill....
And btw. netaheat boilers are a bag of crap, ask any service & repair engineer.
My heating pump gets red hot and is making a awful noise but thr heating and water is running fine what do you think is wrong ?
Hi I have a Worcester boiler 35CDi greenstar the hot water only works if the pump is on permanently on if I put it back to factory settings and turn on the hot water the temperature rises very fast and the boiler locks out does the pump work for heating and hot water or just heating I’ve had loads of engineers looking at this boiler and no fix parts that have been changed plate heat exchanger new mother board new expansion vessel the diverter valve opens when it’s calling for hot water
Very helpful video. Am confident now to replace my own pump!
Snow such thing as a handy job😀 & usually 4 o clock on a friday
Ever single pump (ball valve union) i have turned off, never never works ever. i drain down to below the pump then change valves and pump.. job done. also check the water quality ifits brown or black you will be back in 6months to change again, advise them to have a magnetic cleaner,,,,
Hi Roger - did you have to cut the pipe a little to fit in those Ball Valves? I'm finding that they are slightly longer than the gate type of valves I am replacing. Thanks!
Yes I did
@@SkillBuilder thanks very much! Was wondering if I was doing something wrong - feels a bit scary to be cutting pipes
mine is hot 180f is that bad or ok?
What will happen if the pump is fitted wrong way or other way round or upside down?
Cheers for this Roger
great video, Just one questions -I always tin stranded wire when wiring into choc blocks - is this not really necessary?
It is a good idea but not many do it.
Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for! Even the same pump model.
Hi Roger
What if bumb have pressure?
How safely can be removed?
Thank you for the information. 😘
I have a pair of these on a closed loop for a ground source heat pump, and there's a bit of air in the loop .. can these pumps be vented at all? Open the screw on the head while its running?
jrfk2 some people are saying there is a bleed screw but i dont see it
@@gfriedman99 The big silver button is the bleed screw.
Got this problem right now. I don't have the confidence to take it apart so I'll wait for the bloke who checks my boiler every year to come look at it in a couple of days, but I've given it a tap wit ha hammer and we'll see if that helps!
I got an old style boiler in my flat the hot water pressure is terrible.
I do not have a pump fitted. Can I buy a pump like this 1 and get someone to plumb and wire it in?
If so how much you reckon I'm looking at?
Thank you
@@alemgas thanks for replying to my 2 year old comment. Much appreciated
Those pumps are designed so you can change the head only,no need to touch the water connections,four Allen bolts and it's off.
Yes but often it is the impeller that is knackered. They get noisy
@@SkillBuilder the impeller is in the head/main body.
Just changed the head on mine much easier
Pl what goes in what colour
I've cleaned the sludge out my downstairs rads cleaned my header tank out ran some cleaner for a week and then drained the system and let it run through a pipe the cleaner must have worked because it stopped the kettling noises straight awa y .Now i suspect my pump is either weak or jammed with remaining sludge because some of my rads aren't getting as warm as before especially downstairs .
The cleaner has moved the sludge to the low spots. You now have to remove the rads so you can hose them through. You will be amazed by the crap that comes out. Once done you will have a really good system.
British Gas would charge you £500 for this.
@@SkillBuilder Thanks for reply i have removed and hosed out my downstairs rads alot of sludge came out.
@@SkillBuilder What should you pay for a power flush
Hi, I live in a small flat with 1 bedroom and 1 bathroom
Is 75 W circulation pump strong enough for the system?
Thanks alot
Yes, absolutely
Tks alot
Get a modern pump, 45W. You would probably end up using 5W.
What should the pump speed be set to?
Set it low and see if it works, if some rads are not getting hot turn up the pump speed.
Why did the pump fail could it not be down to contamination in the system did you not need to remove the common contamination from the system first?
Someone replaced the pump and cleaned a pipe near the pump. The rad in bathroom near pump is working. It took hours for the bedroom rads to get hot except one in bedroom. I waited until morning but rads downstairs still not hot.
The timer is on on has advised and only c/h mode.
Anymore advice as suggested by man who fitted it it needs a full flush. I did that 3 years ago. Surely it doesn’t need it again
H Roger -- really like your videos -- tell your mate to get you tovservicevthat POTTERTON netta heat every year co the combustion chamber is under possitive pressure from the fan + can be dangerous if the casing seals are faulty !!! -- even better get a new boiler !!! -
Mine is the same pump and screeching it gets red hot and not getting no heating to the radiators could mine be jammed and freed with screw driver or should I get a replace ment and also my electric motorised white box is broken can any one give me any tips please
What pump speed
My boiler is working ok most of radiators downstairs are working … 3 radiators in my son’s room aren’t working.. pressure is 1 bar .. bleed no air in them .. the pump is pretty warm how would I know if it isn’t working properly?
Do you need to be electrically qualified now to do the wiring?
No it is not rewiring and a lot of pumps now have push in terminals.
Never known those garbage valves not leak. The gate valve or type you’ve used to replace with are far better.
Good video.
I have a 20+ year old potterton Housewarmer Back boiler. I have just replaced my 15+ year old Grundfos pump as it was making surging noises. Now my Burner keeps going out prematurely and then locking out. I am thinking that I have dislodged some sludge/magnetite that has now entered my heat exchange with the extra power of the new pump. Could I be right? I recently hoovered all my back boiler and burner blade out so I know that's not the issue.
It would seem to me that you have no circulation at all in the boiler. Check the flow direction and the valves. If that doesn't help you could flush the whole system through. Back boilers are usually not low water content so they should be better than most in terms of staying clear.
@@SkillBuilder Thanks, thing is for the first week of me swapping the pump it ran great, got nice and hot and no issues with locking out or anything. Today I have changed the Oxipilot ignition thingy and I have also fitted a new thermostat. I have also drained the system and refilled but nothing really came out other than clear water. Still not lighting or going out. I'm waiting for some cleaner and inhibitor to come. Only other idea I have is that could my Honeywell gas valve be broken? perhaps it isn't working and letting the gas through for the boiler to light? I'll be corgi registered by the time I am done with this!
Can a Grunding pump fail after 6 years? Mine is making a noise now .
nice one roger
At the start you said water turned off ..... is that the cold feed in to the central heating you turned off
yes to stop the tank filling as you empty it
Thanks mate
Great.Had cylinder fitted..air locks in system. Who's responsible please?
Hi Ray
I am afraid that air locks are a fact of life. If the system is well designed it should self vent to the radiators but high spots with no bleed points are difficult. I have spent many hours clearing airlocks and they can turn a one hour job into a three hour job. I am afraid the airlocks belong to the customer not the plumber and in the past I have been far too generous on this and walked away with less money than I deserved. If the customer is a good regular customer I will swallow it to keep them sweet but on a one-off job it is my policy to charge the customer for my time. Best thing is if the plumber warns you before draining down that it could go badly.
@@SkillBuilder Forgot to mention Paid out £540 last Friday thinking all was well but after trying to rectify the young fitter said the pump was no good and there were air locks then left as it was weekend.
@@rayskinner1581 owch nobody happy on that one. Ive heard of some pumps that have a jockey mode to clear air out, best used on large houses
Any decent fitter will make sure theres no air locks so I disagree 100% it's a customer issue. Given gents age its disgusting anybody would leave until systems running perfect and hes happy.
Yep...... this was awesome. Thankyou👍🏻
Very good
Ball-o-fix type pump valve unions always leak, see them replace them for gate valve type. Copper grease the union threads to ease replacement next time! Best practice, remove head and rotate so electrical connection comes in from underneath, more professional job that will avoid any water ingress if there’s ever a leak! Don’t forget to replace your washer on the drain off!!!
Watched this, hit the comments...you've done it already Jamie👍
Should the pump not be "red hot"? It is pumping hot water direct from the boiler...
hot but not red hot. When the water is flowing through it is the same as a radiator.
@@SkillBuilder ok, mine is hot hot, and only luke warm rads downstairs. Pump might be suspect. Doesnt look too bad a job to replace, just the risk of the weeping valves as mine is an old / original pump. Ive checked almost everything else and new rads throughout.
Nice job. Done it myself but pump idolaters were crap cheap gate valves that passed - had to drain system. Ball valves are far superior even though they cost a tad more - well worth it.
Thanks very much
I loathe, hate and detest those balofix globe valve type pump unions. They always leak from the O ring seal on the shaft. All I can think is that after years and years of not moving the O ring sticks to the shaft, so when you turn it, it tears a bit never to seal again. Much prefer the gate valve type, at least if they do weep you can pinch up the packing gland, or if needs be use a few twists of PTFE tape to add some stuffing to the gland seal. I always carried a spare pair of valves in the van when I worked in London, it wasn't worth the grief of driving across London just to get a pair from Fulham Heating.
You need to watch the beginning of this with the subtitles on. Roger seems to have changed his name lol.
Very nice 👍🏼
Hey this guy is good!!
Does one cover oneself for the extra expense of the glands, labour, running around by giving a conditional estimate? also did you mention making sure the pump electrical power is removed before working on it? Although that is a given, if the pump is bunt out it still might be live.
Yes, I isolated the power at the beginning. As for all the running around etc. most of the time I am on the clock so whatever time I spend on the job is charged for. It is one of those things you just have to establish with the customer. If you replace the pump that is one job, if the glands leak and you replace the valves that is another job. If the customer isn't happy then just take the money for the pump job and leave the glands leaking. I have had someone say that the valves were fine until I touched them but you always get those kind of people. You learn to filter them out before the job. If they begin the conversation with "How much?" I just tell them I am too busy.
I also keep one of those wireless voltage sensor marker-pen shaped goodies handy to do a final check that there is no live circuits before touching anything
Well said Roger
Whats the name of the part at 6:52
shut of valve or isolator
Valved Pump unions.
PTFE Tape..
Roger... would u consider a light smear of vaseline on those rubber washers ??
Also... any thoughts on using liquid ptfe ( in general plumbing ) instead of the tape which can be a pain sometimes ??
Loving the vids, I'm refurbing a stone cottage on the west coast of Ireland & having a ball learning the trades from people like your goodself...
Thanks & keep up the good work man... ☘️☘️☘️
Peter Fitzpatrick no vaseline is petroleum based and will destroy the rubber in due course. Always use silicone paste on rubber parts.
Really helpful thanks
You just saved me €200!
Hi,hoping somebody can help,having problems with my boiler,last night the boiler tripped the electricty,the plumber is trying to push me to get a whole new boiler rather than replace the pump and diverter,he said it's the pump that is making the electricity trip,this doesn't sound logical to me,searched online and can't find anybody who talks about the pump tripping the elecricity! is it possible?
It can happen but you can easily wire a pump up on a 3 pin plug and check it independently. It is also likely that a slight trace of moisture on a motorised valve can cause the RCD to trip.
@@SkillBuilder Hi,thanks for the reply☺had a closer look at it and there's water drops coming from the inside of the wiring/electrical part!! the plumber said the seal must've worn away and that's how the water has gootten to the electrical wires!!that seems like a disastrous design flaw!,i'll have a proper look when he replaces it tomorrow,thanks again.
Thanks very much hammer knock worked for my issue.
Thanks for the videos. As an amateur, I've done a bit of plumbing of all sorts. If that had been me I'd have tried 2 fibre washers and joint compound. What do you think? Wasting my time?
GrumpyGrampa I think the leak was from the isolation glands rather than the union connections themselves so needed to be replaced. Good to see the job done properly, plenty would have tried to bodge that and walk away. 👍🏻
So that's a HEATING Pump? How does the hot water pump from the boiler to the hot water tank?
Diverter valve into cylinder coil the back to boiler.
man I could listen to roger narrate paint drying
we have that video.
Put the price up by 50quid! A bit generous Roger, if I have to drain down it's £100 minimum. Have to cover the cost of adding back inhibitors and the inevitable time to get all the airlocks out.
Fair enough. That is why I am poor and still working into my old age
Why would you have to drain down to change the pump valves when it’s only gravity so can easily be snatched an if your not confident in snatching bung the tank
@@Steve-jh6oz Draining down also allows you to remove debris. It's not exactly hard, I did 8 whole-system drain downs today (6 on one side of the removed radiator, 2 on the other side), and a couple more tomorrow after running the pump. Then I will put in the new pump. I want that water good enough to drink. I noticed the pump spent a lot of time running, so I am putting in a modern low consumption model that will half the electricity cost.
is it me or are Irish heating systems including plumbing almost identical to British systems ? I'm not a plumber by the way.
You glossed over the hardest part, fitting the new pump which is an ultratight fit.
Get a plumber
@@SkillBuilder so, you either forgot to video it or it was a complete bugger of a job getting the new washers and pump into place and you didn't want to show yourself struggling with it. Either way, it makes the video far less useful. But your response to a correct comment says it all really.
@@stuartb3502 Fitting the pump and washers is the easiest park of this job, the hardest is filling system up and getting rid of air....