That Time Marvel Tried to Bury the X-Men
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2024
- It’s a good time to be an X-Men fan right now. We have a hit cartoon that is so beloved by everyone that it’s the focal point in discussions about weekly release schedules. The upcoming Deadpool and Wolverine film has no one talking about the Superhero film Fatigue. And the Fall of Krakoa storyline is front and center for many of the arcs across nearly all of Marvel’s current titles.
We’re only now seeing all these great X-Men projects and the announcement of a new Fantastic Four film because, if you really look at it, the shadow ban was only really lifted just last year. The effects of that point in time when the comic book market leader would rather rip out its largest cornerstones than just acknowledge them, is well known among comic fans.
But looking at the full extent and all the details of this X-Men/ Fantastic Four squash - now with the benefit of hindsight - really does make all of this seem like the worst business decision for the pettiest of reasons. Let’s get into it.
00:00 - Intro
00:56 - Foreshadowing
02:07 - Bankruptcy
04:42 - Greed
06:44 - The Burial
09:24 - More Burial
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I don't think the worst part was the burial, it was the fact they thought the Inhumans stood a chance at replacing Mutants
Aka the m£th dealers of Marvel.
Not joking; they live in the middle of nowhere, huff and mine a dangerous blue rock, the king is married to his cousin and one of the few Inhumans people liked was literally named Crystal.
Heck, Kamala Khan was supposed to be a mutant instead of an inhuman… and it shows.
I feel bad for the actual Inhumans fans who were fans before the push.
They got to see the Inhumans turned into something they were never intended to be and then ultimately booted off the stage almost entirely.
All because of some suit with a grudge and no creative chops.
@@jasongarrett768 sucks really. Mostly because my favourites that weren’t Kamala were Lockjaw and Crystal.
I mean, Lockjaw is either the sweetest or saddest inhuman… or weirdest.
And Crystal is a chaotic mess that works well in Xmen melodrama
Classic ike perlmutter
A total non starter.
The absolute worst casualty from all of this is Marvel vs Capcom it was one greatest fighting game franchises of all time! And it got murdered because the X-men were missing from MVCI. Disney screwed over capcom and it cost them millions. Capcom is likely never going to work with them again. Plus they don't need to they're in the golden age right now
It baffled me on how many gamers solely blamed Capcom for it, while being ignorant to the actual culprit. Especially after what was revealed on how Disney Marvel wanted to show Marvel Characters not looking "inferior" compared to the Capcom reps.
@@Venom3254 yeah it's no coincidence that Marvel vs Capcom only started running into snags after Disney bought Marvel.
Perharps, but that also means that MvC is likely to now join "The Vault" of Franchises that Capcom possess but will not do anything with it because the Re-Re-Re-Re-Re release of an older version of the game didn't passed "The Capcom test".
While I do agree Disney is 100% at fault in the MvC:I fiasco, Capcom should also learn from this and not attribute the failure of something to the audience.
@@Juju2927 Ah yes the fate that befell Onimusha after Capcom decided to remaster just the first game as a standalone release, with none of the stuff the Xbox version Genma Onimusha added
Makes me glad MUA3 came out when it did. Can you imagine TWO Marvel crossover games in a row, in series built on the X-Men, without the X-Men?
Replacing mutants with the inhumans is like replacing Spiderman with J. Pennington Pennyparker
And Pennyparker certainly has some opinions he’d like to share about eugenics.
Yeah. I remember the big Inhumans push. It was truly bewildering.
Nah, it's like replacing Spider-Man with Paul.
Oh wait!
Some deep lore
Or replacing Peter with Miles
I still think the funniest thing about this era and how obviously bonkers stupid it was is how they tried so hard to make Cyclops this antagonistic fallen hero villain during Avengers vs X-Men, but because Marvel's push to replace X-Men and mutants with Inhumans was so transparent because of how aggressive it was that it made Cyclops look more and more right seemingly by accident. They obviously wanted to rush it so much that it made the damn Avengers look bad, during the height of their MCU popularity to boot.
God what a strange little era. And all because of some spiteful little man.
Scott Summers’ secondary mutation is being so right that real world company mandates break against how correct he is.
Most hilariously failed character assassination ever.
There’s a reason “Cyclops was right” became so popular
Only Ike Perlmutter can wage a war against a fictional character... and lose to the fictional character.
*Perlmutter, the whole video is about him.
Villain Cyclops has to be Marvel's most forced arc because the guy was literally right about every single thing, yet the characters acted like he was the new Red Skull
8:40 To be fair at least the Fantastic Four got a proper send-off with Secret Wars. It wasn't mean spirit and disrespectful like Marvel did with the mutants, trying to basically kill them all and replace with the Inhuman. Ironic that nowadays the mutants are back at being important while the Inhuman disappear from the comics.
To be fair, Secret Wars was written by Hickman, and the Inhumans are too a key part of Marvel's history as creations from Jack the King Kirby, but yeah they were pretty obscure until Jenkins' Inhumans from Marvel Knights.
@@ivanagustinortiz5237 I feel they are very similar. In fact, the Marvel world is messed up. Why are certain super powered beings fine but others (like the mutants) are seen as scary? In fact, the mutants should be accepted more because it is a genetic factor that can happen to anyone. Which is why Master Mold wants to get rid of both humans and mutants because one can turn into another.
Persecution doesn't follow logic, if mob mentality followed logic people would be bowing before asians and africans, yet we have a lot of people(some even are black,hispanic, asian) that feel they are an inferior race, people hate mutants in the marvel universe exactly BECAUSE they were born like that @@mysterycupofjoe2670
Well it's the fans reaction for what happened. You'll find few fans who thought replacing the X-Men with Inhumans was a good idea. They responded in kind by not really picking up as many books. All because Fox had control and they couldn't use them in their Disney movies. Weird strategy. Thankfully Marvel seems to realize what way the wins is blowing and is even gearing up for a new soft reboot of X-Men after the really crap Fall of X story.
@@tonyjackson4078 Yeah, Marvel has started screwing over any characters they don't have the movie rights too.
I'm sure part of the idea was to get them popular for movies but Inhumans as a whole were never cool 😜
If Spiderman and Avengers are the heart of Marvel Comics, The Fantastic 4 and X-Men are the brains and soul. F4 and X-Men were there to challenge the audience and make them question themselves as people. The fact that they were erased for a time over corporate greed still burns my ass and I hate that it took more corporate greed to get them back.
Pearlmutter turned Marvel into a sweatshop-level employer, and it never really has recovered.
This is kinda why i never bother with nerds who come with these elaborate conspiracies of why companies they like are now making whatever they consider "weird choices'. 99% of the time it really is just a few guys in a board room making bafflingly personal decisions.
@@oshkeet Marvel got the worst of both worlds in that it had to please Pearlmutter's greed AND the demands of over-zealous diversity advocates.
I know it was an editorial mandate, but the end of secret wars featuring Sue and Red rebuilding the multiverse was a lovely temporary sendoff in my eyes
Not to drag "Avengers vs X-Men" into this, but I did notice, out of the two teams, which one ended up taking up the "villain" role in that event...
Still, onward towards 2024, the Year of the Mutant!
Hey just gotta say I loved seeing your comments on Shout! Toku videos as I watched their Kamen Rider catalogue lol
You forgot Cyclops dying of mutant flu and Storm and T’challa having their marriage annulled. And the terrible writing of that death of wolverine storyline. It was so frustrating to see as an xmen fan. It’s why the krakoa era meant so much to me❤
I am not the hugest X-Men fan but even I felt the void without the X-Men, the Marvel universe is incomplete without them imo
Agreed, thats why the mcu was just the “avengers universe” for me
Let's be honest: X-Men being out of the main marvel events from 05-10 was the best thing ever. Messiah Trilogy is the best X-Men have since Claremont's departure in 91
I remember the push of Inhumans and definitely realized it was to replace mutants. I sad about it but willing to try and let the Inhumans win me over. I wanted to find more stuff I liked. In the end it was a big nothing burger and I barely remember anything from them. Never saw the show, didn't read the comics, didn't notice anyone in movies. So it felt like they wanted to try and push them but just didn't.
And to this day, I have hated that in the comics, the X-Men stayed out of Civil War because there is no way they would have.
I really liked the Geokinetic Nuhuman Flint, because his story felt like the natural melding point of the two approaches to the Inhuman story. With his family/lost tribe of Inhumans avoiding the Terrigenesis at all cost because their branch of the Inhuman family trees were deemed rotten due to the fact a majority of them just end up either dying or living in constant pain after exposure to the Crystals/Mists. Felt like a superhero metaphor for inherited genetic disorders like Sickle Cell Anemia.
But really, he was the only new character besides Ms. Marvel to leave any impression on me, and given he was in an ensemble book, that’s a pretty damning thing to say.
Cyclops basically said straight up that having to register your identity as a hero to the government was WAY too similar to the Mutant Registration Act. Plus with the having less than 200 mutants left he was trying to avoid casualties
@@richborn6700 They know the reason why, but it still didn't really make sense that all the xmen stay put, no way that would've happend.
The most wild thing to me was not just merch missing the X-Men and the FF, but the fact that they would literally edit them out of classic comic artwork. I recall a t-shirt that was the cover art from the classic Secret Wars #1, but with like Wolverine edited out and Black Panther inserted in his place. Wild.
That's hilarious. BP wasn't even in that comic.
@@BCWasbrough Also the shirt for the classic Secret Wars #8 cover had the Fantastic Four and X-Men characters edited out and there was just nothing there making their omitting even more obvious.
Ah, yes. I remember that dark period in Marvel history. For me, the most insulting part wasn’t that they were replacing them with the Inhumans. The insulting part is that they thought we were SO stupid to fall for such a ploy. Not just in the comics but everywhere. The X-Men were disappearing everywhere. Just look at one devs comment from Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. I do not envy his position, but my god the response about how it was all about mechanics and not the characters shook me to my core angry. It sucked being an X-Men fan for the longest time and I am still waiting for them to resurgence like they used to with a new X-Men game that isn’t Wolverine.
That quote becomes funnier when The Marvels was the biggest bomb for the MCU and X-Men 97 is bringing back Marvel from the dead. How ironic
@@KgEclispe252 Yet they made kamala a mutant and the cameo of beast.
I can understand Disney not wanting to support the X comics. But why put them through a slow killing period instead of just giving them a happy ending? Doing that would have lessen the spite against the Inhumans.
Never thought of that, but would have been a great idea!
Personally I can't understand the idea that the Inhumans could ever be likable, at least moreso than the X-Men. Their whole concept screams "we want to replace the X-Men but we're so uncreative we came up with the same thing twice" and in nearly every story Inhumans are in, they're massive douchebags to any non-Inhuman. The X-Men are just cooler and the stories you can tell with them are 10 times more engaging than anything the Inhumans could ever do.
It's almost like Disney is some sort of cult of jerks.
*Perlmutter.
Marvel tried to remove a franchise of outcasts that taught kids to stand up for your rights, didn’t expect a fanbase of outcasts to stand up against mutant hating bigots?
Every comic executive must be required to have a PHD of comics knowledge
I'm not going to say Ike was this wonderful man because he wasn't, but you didn't mention Joe " no more mutants sins past one more day" Quesada. He had a hand in it, too. But hey, great video. I really enjoyed it and I hope you have a wonderful day.
Changing quicksilver and the scarlet witch’s backstory was definitely one of the stupidest parts of all this. They went from having some of the most interesting backstories and family relationships, to… whatever layers of convoluted nonsense they’ve come up with since.
'Doc Ock's Wok'
That's the best fucking name for anything ever. God Bless
I cackled at this and then instantly :| at incredible hulk burger
I was so pissed about the way they treated the FF for several yrs I didn’t buy a single Marvel product outside the occasional Essential collection (mainly FF & X-men collections. )
This also killed Wolverine and The X-men. It was a great show that had the potential to be The Best X-men show, but Marvel didn't have the movie rights, so 1 single season it got
The Age of Apocalypse teaser that would have been the crux of season 2 never coming to pass is so disappointing
The one thing I did enjoy about this era of X-Men was that with so many other titles getting a lot of oversight from the higher-ups to create brand synergy, the X-Men titles were basically given free reign to try whatever they wanted as long as it didn't interfere with the marvel universe as a whole. It gave room for some experimental storylines. Whether they were successful or not was another matter but with so many cases of the movies influencing the comics it was interesting to see the X-Men titles having the ability to try stuff out.
The fact that the rare ToysRus exclusive Marvel Legends wave was a nightmare to obtain 10 years ago during the dark age of X-Men. Tells you a lot on how many fans still valued the X-Men during that time. I legit was sold on getting Marvel Ultimate Aliance 3 when they had that Xaiver Mansion trailer.
I knew X-men were dead when they killed Wolverine to quote Deadpool he was "THE X-MAN" . Im excited to see if they can keep up the quality xmen content X-men 97 has been great.
Honestly, everything from House of M, Decimation, Messiah Trilogy, Schism, and the aftermath were all top tier X-men comics. An absolute tour-de-force of great, hard, tough, beautiful storytelling. The real crud of the Perlmutter Pettiness was when the Terrigen mist bomb was detonated, that was when the attempt to replace the X-men was very up front and intentional. The problem was that none of the Inhumans besides Ms Marvel had any pizazz or personality or character design to stick even a little bit, and because of their origins their stories were never going to hit the same sweet spot of notes that the X-men always have. The most infuriating, however, was the blatant lying and gaslighting by Marvel pretending that they weren’t trying to replace the X-men
X-Men Origins Wolverine was the last movie to get any toys made for it not X2.
Ironic that mutants were the ones hidden both in universe and real life
I will never forget how marvel vs Capcom infinite was the point people said OH FUCK OFF MARVEL like saying a beloved character in fighting game history was only loved because of air dash is absolute dickish to the legacy of MVC hell MVC wouldn't exist if it was for X-Men Children of the atom and the secret akuma code planeting an insane seed that after marvel superheroes marvel said want to do a crossover and Capcom said yeah and street fighter vs X-Men created the greatest fighting game series ever
The MCU to me will never be a complete cinematic universe due to the fact that the X-men and fantastic 4 were unavailable to them during the mcu’s peak.
Yeah. Such a shame. But to be honest only thing that can bring back Marvel and superhero hype to it's glory is X-Men and F4. Because people are not got bored from superheroes they got bored from bad stories. X-Men and F4 has lots of good stories.
@@berkekaradag1410
Subjective.
100% agree with the messiah complex bit. Hopefully we get to see that in X-Men 97 somehow
Marvel vs Capcom infinite still haunts me. An incredible fighting game with great online held back and dismissed by fans due to the lack of X-Men (and a generally bland roster) and an awful ugly art style with some wonky character models
The terrible thing was that Perlmutter thought people would be dumb enough to blame Fox for his petty nonsense. Sadly, he was somewhat right.
It's more infuriating that they allowed to bring in the F4 and X-men back and pretend they always important to Marvel when they weren't important enough to keep around in the comics over movie rights.
And people say I’m crazy for saying the movies influence the comics. But this and Deadpool not having an ongoing for years until he got another movie coming prove my point.
Come again?
@@dylansharp8471 Think about it. Back when the Raimi Peter got organic webs in the comics, many characters such as Star Lord and Lady Deathtrike had their looks changed to match their movie counterparts, and of coarse, Civil War 2 happened right when the MCU Civil War came out.
It not really surprising live action movies will always have a bigger reach and audience than comics books especially if the movie a big hit
people forget but characters such as Iron Ma, Captain America, Thor were not household names like today
pre-MCU they were relatively unknow, thats why Marvel got to keep them, cause no one wanted them
So the MCU had to start with films about heroes that were not well known and they succeed with making them million/billion dollar franchise
The irony is that sony, who had the chance to buy every single marvel character but only ended up buying spider-man, is doing the same thing marvel had to do, making films about unknow characters like Morbius and Madame Web, but unlike Marvel, they are failing both financially and critically
All this because Disney didn't own their film rights at the time.
Partially, the other part is FOX X-Men movies sucked!
X-Men United, First Class, Days Of Future Past, and Logan all rule. Better big swings and misses than playing it totally safe, which's why the MCU's so dull to anyone with half a brain.
This is why I follow Venom. No more winking at the camera
@@BlueMarsalis First 2 was good. First Class, Days Of Future Past and Logan was amazing. The rest is either really bad or mid.
Do you ever watch the video?
5:45
i've heard about that, Pearlmutter being REALLY camera shy and photos of him being SUPER rare.
Reminds me of Swan from Phantom of The Paradise. Can’t let anyone but his own crew take pictures or film of him, or else his secret pact with the devil will be revealed when everyone sees how much older and scarred he looks in their photos.😂
It's just very funny that one of the few known pictures of him is incredibly sinister
Leaving the Fantastic Four off the 75th anniversary posters and merch was unbelievable and I'm only a surface level follower of Super Hero comics. My Daughter has a big group poster of the Marvel Universe from that time and I still find myself looking at it in disbelief.
last 24 years have been really lame for the X-Men, now we get the omega level of cool classic X-Men back, thanks mutant kind.
Damn 24 years?? Movies weren't perfect but the Fox verse as well as the 2 subsequent tv series, the games, and their appearance in MVC3 was pretty cool, sure they weren't as on top of the world and their comics may have dwindled but the IP was as alive as ever I feel
@@tino9117 all that was ok but never had the x-factor or that omega cool factor the classic X-Men just ooze with.
@@krono5elunderstandable, and after seeing more of the video, I can see that they weren't as prevalent in a lot of things
@@tino9117 all the X-Men cartoons are fire tho.
The last 10 years sure but some of the movies were great and let’s not discard Xmen comics in the 2000s, there was some peak stuff in there.
I did really enjoy the Bendis era, All New, All Different X-Men, but I also spent most of that era being "Like OMG, Marvel is killing this book."
I did love the Zeb Wells New Mutants. The Magik and Karma drama was fun.
Ugh the All New All Different era. That was right about the fall after I finished high school and quickly realized adulthood has no budget for comics weekly. Especially when the books were getting more expensive for less quality content
@@richborn6700 for me, it was when i upgraded my adulthood to include a comics budget, digital comics becoming a thing was a huge help.
I still feel like the X-men are being ruined in the comics. They butchered a lot of the characters during the Krakoa era, like turning Kitty Pryde into a mass murdering psychopath after she'd been established as a pacifist for decades. Hell, during the War World Hulk tie-in, she was fretting over crippling the Hulk after phasing his hands through the floor, but has no issue now phase ripping people's hearts out now.
X-men 97 is the first genuinely good X-men thing to come out recently. The new Deadpool movie looks like it might be great, so maybe this will be a turning point. I just don't trust the current writers at Marvel Comics to respect them until I actually see it happen.
That timeline where the Inhumans almost won...
"Wolverin's death was intended to be permanent."
Come on guy. No one believes that.
This was great, thanks. Just suscribed, I really appreciate the time length as well.
On one hand, i appreciate that the spite lead to a lot of Marvel's lesser known characters getting the spotlight after Marvel practically became the Spider-Man and X-Men show, but that feeling didn't last long
Didn't last long?
Mr. and Mrs. X is one of my favorite miniseries, so, there were *some* bright spots.
Marvel Fans: Can we have X-Men in the MCU?
Ike Peralmutter: We have the X-Men at home.
X-Men at home: Inhumans
5:19 If anyone wondered what it would look like if Marvel made the DCEU, there ya go.
The most in depth video I’ve seen on this subject. I haven’t heard anyone mention Marvel Mania in years. I’m a young guy so I never went but I do have a replica menu from the marvel vault.
While I enjoyed Inhumans, I even met Anson Mount at Montréal Comic-con. I was NOT happy with the decision to shaft the X-Men and Fantastic Four. It got to a point where I stopped reading comics for a while and I only returned once the Fantastic Four returned to comic book pages. I have Autism and 2 of my favorite heroes are Cyclops and Mr. Fantastic whom I believe also have it. Seeing them reduced to vindication against Fox alienated me from the comic book world.
Now, the Cyclops one I get.
Although it does make reading them at moments, like Scott walking out on Maddie, incredibly frustrating for an autistic guy like myself.
While I can understand somewhat I find it idiotic that despite owning the merchandise rights they would shaft the X-men especially considering the X-men movies after First Class were pretty well received they could’ve made a lot of money from the merchandise alone.
They didn't stop doing movie toys until after X-Men Origins
Jesus Christ, I knew it was bad but I didnt know it was THAT bad. I very sadly didnt even notice both groups were always omitted from merch more often than not. But I do remember when they were removed from the Marvel hero logo. People were raising all KINDS of hell, myself included. Geez who the hell was that guy and what gave him such little dick energy? Smh, well they made one HELL of a comeback in X-Men 97, cant wait to see what happens with Fantastic Four.
Never forget what happened to Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite
I'll never forgive Marvel for retconning Wanda and Piertro to not be Magneto's kids.
Even late last year I had to go hunting for a Marvel calendar that actually had any mutants on it (marvel HERoes Calaender 2024, which had a single jean grey spread while they had three different spider-women)
Nice content man! Great quality and production value for a smaller channel.
Why thank you! I sincerely appreciate that.
I've been trying to up my game with every video, learn one new thing to make the next one better, getting a new piece of gear to do a thing better. I put a lot of pride in my channel and, well, making my work better. Seriously. Thank you.
There's a reason I call this the "X-Men Prohibition Era", because of Ike Perlmutter's utter spite towards his competitors. Most people still blame Disney and Bob Iger, who still have a big part in it, but it was all Ike's doing, and Disney was just along for the ride.
Though it's not like it mattered, X-Men 3 was such an awful movie that it put an end to the franchise's cultural relevance, which is a shame because it was EVERYWHERE up until that point, with the 90's cartoon series and several video games. There was a time where you couldn't go anywhere without seeing a kid wearing a t-shirt or backpack with Wolverine or other characters from the franchise on it. By the time Phase 1 of the MCU started, most people had already moved on.
Don't get me started on their push for the Inhumans, they were never as popular as Ike Perlmutter thought they were, and not even Kevin Feige wanted them in the MCU. As soon as their TV show bombed, that was the end of that push.
Did the third X-Men film really dropped their overall popularity? I thought they were still fairly popular since that film, where I'm from anyways
@@bryantsusilo5722 Yeah, the third film pretty much killed the franchise, and it was soon after that Ike Perlmutter took over Marvel. It didn't help Fox clinged onto the rights to the X-Men for almost 20 years, which was entirely Ike's fault because he hated the X-Men franchise.
@@Masterge77 Oh, well where I'm from even after X-Men 3 they're still close to MCU/Avengers level of popularity even before X-Men 97 was made, especially because of the Deadpool and Logan films, Deadpool and Wolverine really carried the franchise
Lore of That Time Marvel Tried to Bury the X-Men momentum 100
Well…2024 and the X-Men returned to save the MCU and Marvel.
This was a dumb idea as the X-Men were at one point the most popular team of heroes out there, even more then the Justice League and some idiot thought that the Inhumans were going to be a good replacement despite the fact that (unless you're a hardcore Marvel fan) pretty much nobody had heard of them since (again outside of the comics) they hadn't appeared in a lot of media. I think their last appearance in any form of media before Marvel tried making them more popular were as NPC's in the first Marvel Ultimate Alliance game.
i still remember when they tried to replace the Xmen with Inhumans and had the mist kill off xmen... including Collossus.... whos been one of my favorite xmen since i was little.
Ironically, this only made me hate every single Inhuman save for Ms Marvel. Shes cool. Shes fine.
Oh, Also I know this probably wont be seen by anyone but in the Avengers video game, the sentinels appear in the story serve a strikingly similar role of hunting down all inhumans just like they did with the mutants who just dont exist in that world. And with everyone omitting Xmen, it REALLY felt like Marvel just wanted everyone to forget about the mutants to the point of taking their villainous robots and pretending they were Inhuman rivals the entire time
Once that Game Shutdown it's Servers, kill her off, & Revive her Coprse into a Mutant.
Meanwhile Spider-Man is currently getting shat on in the comics
They probably want to do the same thing they did to the X-Men and Fantastic Four but can't due to how big Spider-Man is so they'll just completely demoralize him
i hated that era... with the inhumans... I mean, I kinda liked them as a concept (mostly known through the FF comics) but I started my comic reading with (the little) material I found growing up, mostly spider man and x-men, so marvel killing off mutants was not my cup of tea... yes it was kind of getting ridonculous of how large the mutant population had become (after the new x-men launch but still it was a bit too far)... and rogue missing from the mvc series hurt...
I start up hated the inhumans in general. They’re nothing but a bunch of privileged assholes who think they can do whatever they want and no one calls them out on it. And what’s worse is that people tolerate the inhumans and not the mutants.
They need to do a documentary on the trading cards
The inhumanZzzzz are legit a filler team
The only cool character is Blackbolt.
No one gives a f about them.
At least we got the Inhumans in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
I remember this era all too well and when I saw Marvel aggressively pushing the Inhumans I knew they were trying to replace mutants. It radiated "We have X-Men at home" energy. As a fan of the X-Men it SUCKED not getting anything new merch wise and the comics were just condemning them to a slow death.
I mean, we're eating good now but it's been after years of famine.
I remember playing an Avengers game on Facebook waaaaay back and as an event they let you unlock Blackbolt. They like giving fun facts about characters so Blackbolt’s fun fact was when he opened his mouth it both started and ended a war. I thought initially “Oh, that’s cool.” Then later on I found out it was against the X-Men which they left Conveniently out of that fact, which made me upset. The X-Men getting bullied by the Inhumans for them to take over stories made me want them to not succeed, so when I saw Multiverse of Madness, I cheered for what they did to Blackbolt. Because I was not happy with the X-Men being a punching bag, and them getting left out of Marvel vs. Capcom a franchise that was basically started with Ryu trading blows with Wolverine
X-Men won that war though. X-Men back to back to back champs. In AvX, IvX, and Eternals vs X-Men the X-Men came out on top.
@@vayacondios345 The real people who lost were the ones who made Emma a villain again.
The fans were calling for blood.
@@christopherbennett5858 Inhumans and Eternals took the biggest L's. Marvel tried to have the Inhumans replace or take over the X-Men was a major failure then they're having Emma married to Iron Man is a joke also. Emma will always be known as an X-Men first and Cyke's woman.
@@vayacondios345 Here’s the thing; I read that story.
And, frankly, it’s set up to be a marriage of convenience and nothing more. And it’s very clear that Tony needs it more than her.
Whilst I did like Emma and Cyclops, I feel like, especially during the Whedon run, Emma became more of a background character in the relationship.
And, when he knocked her out in AvX, and the abysmal IvX making her go mad with grief?
Frankly, if Cyclops and Emma hook up again, I’d rather it be a friends with benefits situation than a committed relationship.
cyclops got more character growth during the era that ike was trying to kill them, then the 45 years prior. cyclops was my favorite hero as a teen in 90's but as i graduated and moved on to college i stopped collecting and reading comics. it wasn't until 2005ish that i finally started hearing that cyclops is marvels hitler, and finding out how my favorite hero became a villain gave me all the motivation i needed to get back into x-men comics. spoiler scott never became hitler, he just started adopting some of magneto's beliefs. being able to come back to the x-men and being able to read morrison's new x-men, astonishing x-men, house of m, messiah complex/second coming, schism, avx, uncanny x-force was almost overwhelming but it solidified x-men as my favorite i.p. ever.
The xmen are pretty good in their own universe. But have them in the marvel universe is strange and confusing.
The classic issue being what's the difference between mutants and people with powers? One part is about prejudice, so a lot of that just towards mutants alone and not powered individuals is messy
The Ultimate universe was at least consistent that anyone with powers was equally feared.
I first noticed this with the LEGO Marvel's Avengers game. Unlike the other two LEGO Marvel games that had original stories, this one was an adaptation of the first two Avengers movies (with a few bonus scenes from other movies).
Three franchises not found in game: X-Men, Fantastic Four, and Spider-Man.
Well, its an MCU game. Why would they appear? Well, the extended roster also had a bunch of non-MCU characters like Squirrel Girl. And then, Marvel and Sony announced their nrw Spider-Man deal, and we got Spider-Man DLC.
It's also a bit noticable with Ultimate Spider-Man. The first few seasons had an occasional appearance from Wolverine and the Thing, then they disappeared. Doctor Doom was also a recurring villain in earlier seasons of that show and Avengers Assemble (its sister show) before disappearing without a trace.
As a business school graduate, I can tell you that business people are just the worst. I majored in marketing so I could promote products that people would enjoy, but on the business side of any product it's all cutthroat. They'd rather spend more time hamstringing the competition than making the best product possible that their customers will enjoy and be satisfied with. It's always about forcing or tricking people to buy the cheap shitty thing rather than making a good thing. Except for Larian making Baldur's Gate 3.
Outside of the mid-late 90s, I've always been more of a casual fan when it came to the X-Men (last time I read the actual X-titles was Onslaught) but to try and omit them from history is insane. Don't know what's going on in the X books right now but it's nice to see them having a resurgence in other media with X-Men 97 and their upcoming stuff in the MCU.
This is the reason I stopped reading comics. I primarily read X-Men comics and Marvel’s vendetta against them was just too heartbreaking to continue. I’ve only just now started reading them again. I’m mainly reading omnibuses and collections from the library. I still don’t trust Marvel Comics enough to give them money on a weekly basis. Seriously, if they were willing to do that to the team that helped keep them afloat in the 90’s then what other petty nonsense would they be willing to do?
I know Jeff Lemire hated working on it, but Extraordinary X-Men was really good.
11:12 as a *slight* addendum, this version of Fantastic Four had, in fact, been seen by small portions of the viewing public, ever since it was completed. It was, for many years, a popular item on bootleg VHS tapes, along with clunkers like the Justice League TV show pilot I'm sure nobody reading this even knew existed, and believe me, you're going to look it up and realize you were much happier in the moments before you learned it existed...
As fascinating as it is to see what people do with the internet, I think it's more interesting to see what they did without it.
I am a HUGE Wolverine fan so I definitely noticed this when it was happening. The death of Wolverine and rumors it was going to be permanent was the last straw so I started exclusively consuming DC content
I'm a fan of the Inhumans and the X-Men. When Marvel decided to prop up the Inhumans, I thought it was going to lead to more synergy with the X-Men, but when they dropped that promo where the mutants were dead, and the Inhumans were thriving, I knew it was going to end badly
1:30 Damn this image is neat, I wonder how much more diverse it goes the closer you get the popularity peak of horror and war comics.
Dude... Power Pack was MY SH!T when i was a little kid. Dang it
I get so upset over theX-Men and Fantastic Four being ommited from Merchandise, it's like having a Nintendo Shirt without Mario or Pokemon
I was also fuming around 2013-2015 when the xmen where paid dust, thank god things have changed
Deadpool was technically an X-Men character but he still did suffer from all of this. They made him an Avenger. Therefore all Deadpool popularity would lead into Avengers titles getting attention too. I've been reading Deadpool since he was first introduced in the 1990s and the reason why his original run was so great was because he was on the outside looking in. The Avengers is no place for Deadpool.
A fantastic overview of the real story behind the stories.
As someone who grew up primarily in the pre-MCU world and always saw Wolverine as one of the "Big Three" Marvel heroes, the mid 2010s were a bleak time to be a fan of Marvel outside of the movies. Seeing beloved characters unceremoniously offed and scrubbed from the public eye in the name of the great corpo pissing contest was appalling and I hate that it took expanding the Disney monopoly to put an end to it.
Just started reading the Hickman run on FF to get prepared for the movie. I'm really enjoying it.
I've been reading the very original run by Stan and Kirby
Read the run by Waid and Wieringo! It's iconic for a reason. I'm also a huge fan of the current run by Ryan North.
this dark age was what killed the marvel vs capcom series that is one of my favorite game series ever and i'll never forgive them for that
How far have things fallen that stuff like AvX and Schism are looked at positively?
the new X-Men stuff being put out feels really bittersweet and greedy bc of how much Disney burned us over the last decade and a half, it's painful
I’m gonna be honest. Now that the dust has seemingly settled, I’d like to learn more about the Inhumans. It’s not the X-Men, but it could be cool! It’s one side of the fandom I know nothing about.
X-Men fans: we want X-Men
MCU: we have X-Men at home
X-Men at home: inhumans
Only good things to come out of this time frame were Avengers vs XMen and Ms Marvel (who is conveniently now a mutant. It's almost like she was supposed to be one from the start 🤔)
1:29 Also puts into perspective how popular Superman was.
During this saga I got my favorite comic run of all time, All New Wolverine, so I consider that a plus.
Frankly, whilst I bought House of X/Powers of X back in 2020, Marvel isn’t great at marketing its comics.
I first got into the comics in Uni after watching reruns of Wolverine and the Xmen. Because of Emma Frost and, surprisingly, Dust.
That led me to reading the Morrison run, Academy X (yikes) and the Decimation.
Then it just fizzled out for me.
Then, last year, I found a little animatic using comic pages about a certain 17,000 year old psychic, magical dominatrix sucking people dry (of their life force) in the ramble, found the podcast Cerebro and my love for the Xmen since watching the shows as a child was rekindled.
And I’ve been catching up on the Krakoa era.
Safe to say I’ve been loving most of it.
And I got some of the big master collections.
Not going to lie, Vita Ayala’s run in New Mutants made me cry when Martha finally got a body.
minor thing but it's infinitely annoying to me that the F4 and x-men weren't in lego marvel 2 because that game made so many improvements upon the first one and you're only able to experience all that with two of marvel's biggest pillars, spider-man and avengers (the other two being x-men and fantastic four. sorry guardians)
9:34 I mean, X-Men Origins Wolverine got a toyline from Hasbro. Also the reason X-Men 3 didn't get a toyline was, according to Hasbro, because the rights to Marvel Toys were in the process of getting transferred from ToyBiz to Hasbro and because Fox moved the release date of X-Men 3 up a few months (mainly to beat Superman Returns in theaters to spite Bryan Singer)
Doing the same thing to Spider-man, because Sony owns the movue rights.
Oof needs fact checking.
-X-Men were always in Ultimate Aliance 3, even before the dlc. They're on the cover of the game. They have a whole level to introduce them to the roster.
-The X-Men and Fantastic 4 (along with other Capcom characters) were planned for for MvC: Infinite but was canceled due to poor sales and reception of the game. Even the road map for the game was cut short. They're is even an In game explanation for the reason of missing characters from both sides.
-Fox owned characters like Gwenpool and Hit Monkey were in Marevl Super Heroes 2. Kang was the villian who Fox and Marvel had co-ownership.
-It wasn't a merger. It was a buy out. Fox wanted to sell their TV/Film division (20th Century) after they lost $6 billion in the summer of 2016 (Independence Day 2, and X-Men: Apocalypse were the leading cause for that lost). Murdoch went to Dinsey first, but once word got out Comcast-Universal got in a bidding war with Disney. Disney won the buyout by offering more money (some in stock option) and also taking on 20th Century's debt. It's an interesting story for the BUYOUT. Comcast was mainly in the bidding war just for the Sky Group portion so they could have a stronghold in the cable business in Europe.