I have to slightly disagree with your take on Succumb. The thing with Succumb is that it only really matters if you don't block the arcane out and unlike siren's call it only resolves in the resolution step and it requires an on hit. It's a power card for sure, but it's honestly pretty fair imo cause it's main purpose was to slow down a hero that was planning to keep a full 4 or 5 card hand. If you had a bricked hand as per your example you'd just be comfortable blocking with it anyways, and with Vynnset it's main purpose is to give a runegate card go again. If you block out the attack and block out again onn the followup then succumb doesn't have a trigger. I like it cause it forces interaction with decks that typically don't want to interact at all. It's unlike Siren's call where there's no setup required, banishes a card, and draws a card as well. Also disagree with the Cerebellum take. It's a no block without go again unless you crank. It's only good if you get it from top otherwise it's a card that's on the same level as a weaker tome. Playing it from hand is just bad unless you play it as your last action. Playing it from top means you're not going to get any boom grenades out on to the field anymore. High Octane was the only reasonable ban in that situation. High Octane can cause problems on its own whereas Cerebellum needed a high octane to be overpowered.
Here's my issue with banning high octane over processor: high octane is an interesting build around card for different decks that like to boost, and I think it actually increased design space for mech, despite what the devs think. I dont think processor is particularly interesting, and it basically does nothing for the other mech decks. As far as my issues with succumb, there's exactly 0 decks in the meta that increase their damage exponentially from a 4 to a 5 card hand, so it feels like that type of card doesn't need to be in the meta and only exists to brick hands that are borderline playable. If succumb just said deal 4 damage on hit I'm totally ok with it, or said the opponent discard a card of their choosing on hit. Instead sometimes you can't afford to pitch a blue with your hand because you have one blue and then you get succumbed and lose instantly. Especially considering viserai can use the action point to just play read the runes after and you can't get value blocking.
@@rosebud7 I agree with high octane being interesting and its bans pretty much sent Maxx straight to F-tier, but it's a design space that LSS probably doesn't like moving forward considering cards that are relatively unassuming in a vacuum like Cerebellum easily broke it. That's my perspective on the change in direction. Look at it this way, what do you need to print in order to make Cerebellum broken again vs what you need to print to break High Octane, and I feel the latter has a lower barrier of entry. I have to disagree with that. Aggro versions of Aurora, Zen, DIO, and Azalea all hit different with a 5 card hand. Azalea in particular is the matchup I feel I get the most value out of a succumb trigger since they will never run dreacts. The collateral with Succumb is probably how it interacts with Brutes. Brutes run a ton of no blocks so succumb will most likely hit and they can't easily convert their hand if they go a card down. The other matchups are fine with either one card down or can just block out, which is why I won't even run Succumb into defensive decks since the value it gets is far diminished. I'd assume it's similar with Viserai, since I mostly play Vynnset in terms of runeblades. It's also countered by Warmongers and dreacts. To me it serves its purpose and that's forcing decks looking to keep a 4 or 5 card hand to interact with you. It's not so unbalanced since it's predicated by arcane damage, similar to pummel being predicated by 1 floating and tunic. Definitely way less annoying to me than Siren's call which can be applied to any attack and refunds a card in return. At least Just a Nick requires an attack with base 1 so you know when to expect it.
@MRGilD0 i actually think the way the card interacts with azalea is my main gripe with the card. There's a high chance you brick azalea's entire turn with succumb by taking their only arrow and the play pattern is just so dumb.
@MRGilD0 i also think that zen works best on 3-4 card hands, azalea has great value anywhere from 2-5 card hands, and aurora scales linearly off cards except exactly on flicker arc turns. Dio does scale off five cards but I dont really count her as a strong meta player at the moment.
@@rosebud7 That's where we disagree I think. Azalea has tons of evasion with dominate, RITL, remorseless, premeditate. As a runeblade it just seems fair to me lol.
Love Sirens Call and it’s on theme for Assassin, I should have information on your hand and I should screw with your turn cause that’s literally how I win the game. I make you play sub optimal lines. Assassin doesn’t really have the damage output to keep up with most decks so we need to disrupt.
@kingludd3618 i think that's fair. I dont mind all the other assassin disruption, I mostly just wish sirens call didn't draw a card on hit. It's just so swingy. Maybe if it drew on whiff.
I wouldn't call them similar since neither Cull nor Provoke is a full hand reveal. Cull just forces each hero to banish and provoke is more similar to pulsewave harpoon.
HVY: not mechanically complex and that's OK. Captures the bear face mentality perfectly
Just got my 2nd sirens call in the mail
I have to slightly disagree with your take on Succumb. The thing with Succumb is that it only really matters if you don't block the arcane out and unlike siren's call it only resolves in the resolution step and it requires an on hit. It's a power card for sure, but it's honestly pretty fair imo cause it's main purpose was to slow down a hero that was planning to keep a full 4 or 5 card hand. If you had a bricked hand as per your example you'd just be comfortable blocking with it anyways, and with Vynnset it's main purpose is to give a runegate card go again. If you block out the attack and block out again onn the followup then succumb doesn't have a trigger. I like it cause it forces interaction with decks that typically don't want to interact at all. It's unlike Siren's call where there's no setup required, banishes a card, and draws a card as well.
Also disagree with the Cerebellum take. It's a no block without go again unless you crank. It's only good if you get it from top otherwise it's a card that's on the same level as a weaker tome. Playing it from hand is just bad unless you play it as your last action. Playing it from top means you're not going to get any boom grenades out on to the field anymore. High Octane was the only reasonable ban in that situation. High Octane can cause problems on its own whereas Cerebellum needed a high octane to be overpowered.
Here's my issue with banning high octane over processor: high octane is an interesting build around card for different decks that like to boost, and I think it actually increased design space for mech, despite what the devs think. I dont think processor is particularly interesting, and it basically does nothing for the other mech decks.
As far as my issues with succumb, there's exactly 0 decks in the meta that increase their damage exponentially from a 4 to a 5 card hand, so it feels like that type of card doesn't need to be in the meta and only exists to brick hands that are borderline playable. If succumb just said deal 4 damage on hit I'm totally ok with it, or said the opponent discard a card of their choosing on hit. Instead sometimes you can't afford to pitch a blue with your hand because you have one blue and then you get succumbed and lose instantly. Especially considering viserai can use the action point to just play read the runes after and you can't get value blocking.
@@rosebud7 I agree with high octane being interesting and its bans pretty much sent Maxx straight to F-tier, but it's a design space that LSS probably doesn't like moving forward considering cards that are relatively unassuming in a vacuum like Cerebellum easily broke it. That's my perspective on the change in direction. Look at it this way, what do you need to print in order to make Cerebellum broken again vs what you need to print to break High Octane, and I feel the latter has a lower barrier of entry.
I have to disagree with that. Aggro versions of Aurora, Zen, DIO, and Azalea all hit different with a 5 card hand. Azalea in particular is the matchup I feel I get the most value out of a succumb trigger since they will never run dreacts. The collateral with Succumb is probably how it interacts with Brutes. Brutes run a ton of no blocks so succumb will most likely hit and they can't easily convert their hand if they go a card down. The other matchups are fine with either one card down or can just block out, which is why I won't even run Succumb into defensive decks since the value it gets is far diminished. I'd assume it's similar with Viserai, since I mostly play Vynnset in terms of runeblades. It's also countered by Warmongers and dreacts. To me it serves its purpose and that's forcing decks looking to keep a 4 or 5 card hand to interact with you. It's not so unbalanced since it's predicated by arcane damage, similar to pummel being predicated by 1 floating and tunic. Definitely way less annoying to me than Siren's call which can be applied to any attack and refunds a card in return. At least Just a Nick requires an attack with base 1 so you know when to expect it.
@MRGilD0 i actually think the way the card interacts with azalea is my main gripe with the card. There's a high chance you brick azalea's entire turn with succumb by taking their only arrow and the play pattern is just so dumb.
@MRGilD0 i also think that zen works best on 3-4 card hands, azalea has great value anywhere from 2-5 card hands, and aurora scales linearly off cards except exactly on flicker arc turns. Dio does scale off five cards but I dont really count her as a strong meta player at the moment.
@@rosebud7 That's where we disagree I think. Azalea has tons of evasion with dominate, RITL, remorseless, premeditate. As a runeblade it just seems fair to me lol.
Would you like discard that targeted reds better? MtG sort of uses that.
@@mayhayden5786 yes but I still wouldn't really like it
Great vid I learned a lot
Good list of cards! But HVY was peak fab, Guardian is the best class design ever.
hahahah
Love Sirens Call and it’s on theme for Assassin, I should have information on your hand and I should screw with your turn cause that’s literally how I win the game. I make you play sub optimal lines. Assassin doesn’t really have the damage output to keep up with most decks so we need to disrupt.
@kingludd3618 i think that's fair. I dont mind all the other assassin disruption, I mostly just wish sirens call didn't draw a card on hit. It's just so swingy. Maybe if it drew on whiff.
thoughts on provoke? it’s not as extreme as succumb or sirens call but it’s still a card that seems kinda scary for what it does
@@slyrytang blue three block is good, but it doesn't have the same look at your hand ability. Still probably good and probably not particularly fun.
The cheeky kassai cnc
they already showed 2 other succumb / sirens call like cards - provoke and cull 🫣
I wouldn't call them similar since neither Cull nor Provoke is a full hand reveal. Cull just forces each hero to banish and provoke is more similar to pulsewave harpoon.