Elden Ring PVP: Is Ganking Justified?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มี.ค. 2024
- I have both ganked and been ganked but Elden Ring changed everything.
Big thanks to the boys for coming out for the ending
I owe everyone else involved in this video an apology. Especially those guys on the High Wall. Sorry Jonni!
I will eat a shoe if elden ring brings back invasion covenants
I will pay them $100
I hope they do the spirit of dark souls is invasions
Film and post it
I will eat my boyfriend live on camera if they bring back covenants.
Agreed
You don't know how much fun I had goofing around at Pontiff with the 6 players limit. You could invade a fight club and have some duels, or you could try to ruin it and have people team up on you or join you to create a big fight. Or you could just invade a gank and try to defeat it in a big fight. I'd use the obscuring ring and interrupt fight clubs with a greatbow, then run and hide. Eventually, they would get mad and all would go hunt me down. I even a clip of that on my channel.
Elden Ring is just endlessly frustrating. Most days it feels like I'm just chasing the high of DS3 mutliplayer. Recently I invaded a host who would stand at first step, waiting for a red and pit him in a series of 1v1s against blues and yellows. It was a glimpse into what ER could have been, instead of the constant ganks and clueless PvErs you get now.
Elden Ring at least forced me to become a massive sweatlord. Game becomes more fun when you unlock all the options available to you by having the skill to execute them. Invasions can be a really fun test of your abilities and quick thinking.
I doubt the DLC will bring back the 6 player limit, but I sure hope that at some point in the future, perhaps with a Scholar type deal, we can get the Elden Ring we all really wanted.
Ds3 is still around... i just came back after a 3 year hiatus and its been better than ever!
"Elden Ring is just endlessly frustrating. Most days it feels like I'm just chasing the high of DS3 mutliplayer."
bingo, it's why I just stick to DS3 more often
@@mollywhoppedsouls_pvp While i infinitely prefer ds3 pvp to ER pvp, there is also a conversation to be had about stuff like estus cancelling, the machinegun bow glitch and the murky. I feel like you see a lot of that these days...
The good old times. It was always fun to join fight clubs, watching other players play and cheering with funny emotes. I really loved the fact that invaders, hosts, Sunbros and mad phantoms would all join together for jolly pvp and gank on anyone who would break any fight club rules like no flasks or interrupting a match lmao
1st time I invaded a fight club and broke a rule, it was mad funny watching everyone jump me and kill me. Learned etiquette and honorable yet fun duels, something Elden ring lacks. Even if you were a sweat or the enemy was, we were all having fun
Peak DS3 on PS4 for me. The very best moments were when everyone followed me into silver knight range and began to hit each other accidentally on the narrow spaces. But because the host is no longer summoning, organic reds and aldrichs start coming in, and from their perspective it looks like everyone is ganking a single poor invader, so they empathize and start fighting what they think are traitor reds. At some point, the duelists legitimately became annoyed with one another too and picked their own personal fights, and everything turned chaotic. It was spectacular.
Those moments dude... I just assume there will never be anything like that again.
PS: Eventually tried it on PC. Got a host annoyed and met a cursed knife for the first time. Sometime after that got my char sent into a broken NG+. Not quite the same experience lol
Gankers = invader rejects
Grace duelists = arena rejects
Change my mind
No, you're 100% right
What if you want to grace pvp (1v1) but in all the vase landscapes of ER. Why stick to arena’s stale atmosphere and repetitive scenery ? I personally enjoy having TT on while it’s just me in the world. I enjoy the possibilities of a 1v1 or 1v2 with that being decently winnable. Say I have 1 friend that joins with TT on now it’s a possible 2v2, I say it’s fair but I have to agree it’s very stale as the player limit doesn’t allow for deeper and more fun gameplay. Arena it’s just stale, the landscape and mobs is what turns invasions in invaders favor. Taking that away and clearing the map is pathetic I agree.
You bleeping yourself out when saying "k***ht babyboy" gave me a good laugh
The most annoying thing is that there are so many weapons in the Elden Ring, but no one is experimenting with them. I see almost identical setups with every invasion. If I was attacked by a squad of cosplayers, it would make my day. 😁
When I bought the game, I was expecting Game of Thrones style combat. Fast, brutal, with betrayal at every turn. But the only traitor is the game publisher.😢
I think so much of it boils down to people get overwhelmed by the sheer scope of the game so they just look up whatever is "best". I did all my experimenting with weapons when ganking or invading, but since I don't spend as much time with the game I know a lot less about most of the weapons. If only FromSoft better facilitated experimentation instead of driving cross-country up a mountain.
@@emotionaljonxvx I completely agree with you. Perhaps if the game was more generous with forging stones or did not require farming rare resources, then people would be more willing to test different builds.
Its because:
1) most of the weapon classes are underpowered or outright useless in PvP due to bad moveset;
2) weapons tend to share the same moveset all across one class, including the shitty ones. Why would I use any other curved sword when I have Shamshir? Why would I use any other katana when I have Nagakiba? Why would I EVER use maces/axes, lmao
Crescent moon axe has a unique R2 and feels amazing with earthshaker. That’s why. 😅
@@nachalnik5738 I also thought until I used the poisoned shotel. It makes people poisoned so quickly and goes through shields. The feints and shape of the blade make it unique and make it play differently.
I remembered another example. Miquellan Knight's Sword. It's so rarely used that people are never prepared for a charged R2 attack.
But overall I agree that the meta is crowding out other weapons. The temptation to be 100% efficient is too strong.
Former Gank Hunter here (I used to deliberately invade and kill coordinated ganks in Ds3 at multiple levels) I have trouble accepting the "justice against bad red man" or "it's fun" mindset as gank squads regularly blocked me after I killed them a couple times. Maybe this was the case very early in the souls series, where ganking was a gateway into PvP but not after the first few months of the game's lifespan.
I would suggest that people gank for a much simpler reason: They like winning. As soon as they stop winning it's suddenly not fun anymore.
Why should they play fair when their world is being invaded? For them, you are actively initiating ruining their fun, so it's justice to kill the invader as quickly as possible to then get back to the fun they were having exploring.
Many such cases. My first exposure to invasions in Elden Ring was getting put on unstoppable timers by rot pot and antspur invaders in Castle Morne, which infest the low-level brackets like cockroaches. It made me think invasions generally were a purely sadistic mechanic. And while I was never an actual ganker, over time, the "always active golden effigy co-op player who endures invasions" -> "co-op player who has grown tired of the base game and now looks forward to invasions" -> "taunter's tongue solo host who is now facilitating invasions herself for a 'challenge playthrough'" -> "just invading herself because PvP has become the main draw of the game" pipeline worked its course on me, as I'm sure it has for others.
I had a similar path. I went from finally getting the hang of solo pve to helping others, to wanting to 1v1 the invader but seeing them just get ganked by the host and other co-op, to feeling bad for being a crutch for hosts who don’t level vigor, to becoming an invader. Now I make the host’s victory mean something or I teach them to level more vigor.
Are you me? This is exactly my path except the final step is "realize the game sucks and move on to something else"
Bruh Elden Ring multiplayer overall is just a big missed opportunity, not only they didn't improve a single thing, they went backwards a mile. I have almost 1000 hours on DS3 cause of the multiplayer, literally engaged with everything, coop, pvp, fightclubs, invasions and all them shenanigans, tried that in ER and quickly just dropped it. It's so ass.
EDIT: Also the content from multiplayer in DS3 was just pure gold. So many iconic videos and memes. Same with DS1. That ain't happening much with ER.
And bro that clip at the end is literally why I love DS3 so much. Running into stuff like this back in the day was such a blast and a huge laugh.
Definitely feel you on that. I'd love for the DLC to shake up / reinvigorate the scene but without an expanded player count or a forced invasion zone, I don't see anything sticking. It really feels like a hopeless situation and a complete whiff.
@@emotionaljonxvx Yea honestly I just accepted it, it's a hopeless situation indeed. From Software never were the developers to do huge changes and reworks during the game's lifecycle.
Elden ring pvp can never recreate the gank city
Leyndell could have been gank city.
The place in Farum Azula with the birds and lightning could have been gank city.
Nokstella or Nokron could have been gank city.
But instead we just get boilprawn shack duelists, Radahn beach shitters and the three shitgrave skullfuckers.
Back then when ganking wasn’t as cancer for you had buddies
I can’t believe you guys actually convinced yourselves Gank City was good. My god have PvP community fallen.
Good.
@@nunchuksteev9811 whats wrong with gank city? It’s the best place for any invader
You lightly touched on that in your previous videos but it truly cannot be understated how hard Fromsoft fucked up the multiplayer by mostly just taking stuff out of it.
No natural solo host invasions means that invaders almost only fight teams and if you coop you will literally be invaded every 10 minutes when the timer resets.
No real factions or covenants means that not only have they largely killed the roleplaying aspect, you also get no real reward for doing invasions or playing as a blue.
Blues are somehow even less fun to play as or fight against than in ds3 due to multiple factors.
4 player limit i don't have to explain either i think.
The taunters tongue working the way it does is easily exploitable and worse than the dried finger in every way. Also, fcking AFK farmers.
As far as i can see, the only positive change they made was adding the "wex dust" feature and they only added it in a later patch.
Love your vids by the way, i sincerely hope for you to keep growing and making them.
I really don’t think we should even be letting FromSoft get away with their busted ass rip off wex dust. They implemented it in the worst way they could have AND it was MONTHS after the game dropped.
DS3 Wex Dust: Has an in depth area filter down to different segments of a level. Starts searching in areas that actually have activity near your level. Searches an area every 5 seconds. Official ER Wex Dust: No area filter. Searches literally anywhere you've been no matter what level you are. Only does a single search every 30 seconds.
It's pretty miserable.
@@OrangeWaterLemons They could at least let us an option to toggle certain areas on or off.
Only took 6 months for wex dust, give them a break! lmao
Before Elden Ring, whenever I entered a world, I thought three things: 1. Where am I? (What level, and what part of the level) 2. Where is the host's party? (must find out through dead/active pve, changes in terrain, etc) and 3. How is my backup? (is the pve dead or wandering or their one trick used up, do I have a co-invader, is there a blue in the world, have the traps been sprung).
Answering these three questions made me feel like a hunter tracking my prey. In DS3, I could use the Millwood bow, Silvercat ring, and Obscuring ring, which made me feel like I was absolutely hunting prey. I had to be cunning and use everything to my advantage to defeat a stronger foe, and that made it exciting. Even running away in order to get backup (either for a fresh co-invader or more enemies) was exciting.
Elden Ring's nature as an open world game gave it the most potential to give the best "hunting" invasion experience, especially if they had added more or more visible ways to track players. Instead, we got... what we got. A lesser ecosystem than anything before. An experience where you run towards the marker on your compass and then you either get blended or one-shot the host, and it's boring for both parties. Truly the Game of the Year.
i get it that miyazaki wantsto protects the host experience. but goddamn the fuckers who exploit to just stick in one place and gank incoming invaders and won't even move towards the pve areas
I wish they'd let you, as an invader, manipulate enemies. If I could lure a monstrous crow to gankers, I'd pivot my entire life to being a monster rancher.
@@emotionaljonxvxshadow bait might work as an invader? Don’t quote me. It’s an incantation by the way
not sure having overleveled phantoms destroy everything in their path with 1 or 2 hits, be it pve or other players, doesn't seem like a good experience as a host. Ganking is not a problem inherently, the way multiplayer works in ER just makes it an absolute shit experience for both parties because host and phantoms have no need to be even decently good at the game while invaders need to be top 1% players to even have a chance to pose a threat against brain dead gankers.
@@miguelnascimento2847 a top 1 might be able to survive, but they will run out of every items and was force to return home or die.
@@emotionaljonxvxYes! This is what Mohg's rune should do instead of buffing them. Instantly make the enemy aggro the Host regardless of distance, or at least follow the Invader.
That invasion at the end is great! DS3 had some amazing meme potential.
Everyone had more fun in a troll-ish but good natured way in Souls pvp. ER is full of people who are very uninterested in the older sense of humour I think. They don't gesture, they don't honour-duel, they don't take kindly to wacky invader behaviour. For the most part. It's why I still go back to DS3 more often.
@@ianwilliams2632 Without DS3 PvP and it's humour we never would have got this absolute masterpiece th-cam.com/video/YpjBZezKikA/w-d-xo.html
bring back humour to the PvP community!
@@ianwilliams2632 Elden ring has a much bigger audience then all the previous games so not all of them will have the quirky etiquette the older games had.
@@WokeandProud Quite
There is still potential, I have tried to carry the torch of stupid but fun set-ups but it's hard to do it as a host since nobody else in my friends group is interested.
That said quickly invasions may inspire quickly hosts so I still forge ahead.
You are free to gank but I’m still gonna see you as a noodle
Ya agreed, but this definitely affected my opinions on ganking. I appreciate it more than I did.
I usually try to take an invader 1v1.. otherwise tripping off a cliff if that can't be arranged lol
An interesting point you brought up is about the fun of ganking in DS3 vs ER. For context, in ds3 I spent most of my time invading at 90, meanwhile on ER I've been mostly sticking to the 40-80 range.
One thing I've really noticed as a difference is the lack of repeat gankers. In ds3, there were usually a few recognizable names and even just sticking to the archives I would run into a squad a few times over the course of weeks or months. In ER I have never seen a ganker more than one day. Like sure I'll invade a team multiple times one evening but then never again.
Sure this could be due to the size of the playerbase, but there are multiple hosts that I've run into during different points of their playthrough. So it really feels to me that people will try ganking for one night and then put the game away again.
Interesting. DS3 ganks had a lovable rogue sort of feel. There were more tools to space them as a single invader, given how much more head-to-head physical combat oriented DS3 is. ER projectile & AoE spam just makes these less fun. Also the lack of true combos.
Ganking would be acceptable to me in ER if we could just have an area where it was possible to have 2v3s. I literally go back to Ds3 and invade the Ringed City at 125 just so I can have a super chaotic 2v3 murderfest.
I would enjoy more emphasis on different areas. I'd also like to be invaded naturally rather than only taunting, when I'm playing pve
Ngl I'm having a better time playing old souls games and struggling with activity but still having more fun than elden ring pvp.
I got on Dark Souls 3 to get footage for this and ended up just invading for like an hour. I really wish Elden Ring would step it up with PVP. I'd put in more time if I felt I had more to do.
@emotionaljonxvx you mention arena for a split second in this video and I realized arena gets 6 player multi-player with spirit summons... wtf man let dungeons have 6 players. Who cares if it's not available in the overworld. Overworld invasions suck anyway.
Still playing Bloodborne invading in the Nightmare of Mensis on lore heavy gimmick builds, here.
@@GeorgeBigglesworth 3v3s at rhadans catacomb are glorious
@TheCryptidman what level and all of that stuff for your matchmaking?
I think the biggest issue I have with gankers and duelists is that they completely miss what an invader and wants when invading. The ideal invasion in my mind is a group of players who are just playing the game, and doing otherwise is confusing to me. Duelists literally have the coliseum if they want 1v1s, and having an overleveled phantom play the game for you defeats feels like a waste of money for the host, and ganking is just lame. it's weird that they made being invaded multiplayer only since people summoning typically need the most help, and those who aren't needing it the least, with that change making me want to invade in the first place.
I dislike "duelists" more than anything. I love invading but I don't want to deal with some hooser validation tech. Though there all a few I appreciate like benya
I feel like invaders dont know what hosts and co-op players often want most, and that is to just play the game 💀
@@pooperdooper3576 being invaded is playing the game lmao.
@cowspoopmagic so is ganking, if hosts can't complain about invasions because it's "part of the game" then invaders can't complain about ganking because it's also just "part of the game"
@@pooperdooper3576 invaders don't complain about ganking that I've seen save for a few tits.
I completely understand why people gank. But wow, am I happy to have discovered the invader community before ever going down that route. I love introducing friends to these games, so we mostly just duel (train them) and fight the pve. When an invasion occurs, we give an honest fight while trying to progress through the area. All that aside, this video was a fascinating insight into the mind of an actually intelligent, articulate, challenge seeking player with a big-picture view of the pvp dynamic.
I thinking the main issue is when competent or more, players gank. Because of the system at hand it's not remotely balanced
Dedicated gank squads always have been, and always will be pathetic. Now if it’s a host and 2 summons playing through the game, that’s completely different. There WAS a difference in dedicated gank squads in DS3 in the areas where the player limit was increased so that you could have 3v3’s. That’s nowhere near as bad as dedicated gank squads in Elden Ring.
I really wish they’d just increase the player limit to at LEAST 5, that way there can be 2 invaders vs the 3 gankers.
Anyway, this doesn’t mean as an invader I will complain about gankers. That’s the entire point of invading, to go up against multiple players. I’m just not a fan of facing dedicated gank squads, that have builds literally dedicated to ganking. The worst ones are the ones who gank in a very bad area (somewhere that has a lot of wide open space) and there’s either 1 players spamming the insane projectiles in ER while the other 2 rush you down with PSGS’ or just really oppressive offensive pressure weapons. OR 2 players spamming the projectiles while 1 player is in your face rushing you down. I think both are equally difficult to deal with, especially if the gankers have any semblance of knowing what they’re doing at least as far as ganking is concerned.
What a great video. I know in inhaling copium, but I wish SO MUCH that in the DLC we get 6 player limit. One can dream. Also, you just earned a sub!
We can hope and we can dream. Thanks for the sub!
I hope some of you check out Waifu's work. He makes accurate and nuanced videos on Elden Ring that are also hilarious
its so brave of you to come out as a recovering ganker. i'm so proud of our community for accepting people with conditions like this. on a side note, really good vid
My issue is, it's. Just. Not. Fun. On either side, it literally only serves to protect the lowest of the low on the skill ceiling. The worst part is people are STILL using twinks as this legendary feared boogeyman as an excise to sit on ass at the liurnia steps, twinks are dead, you cannot twink anymore, the host has just as much access to these tools as the invader the only difference is that your modern day 1 playthrough kevin doesnt want to put in that effort
The lack of fun is such an important flaw. I would accept so much crap so long as I could fight as many people as possible for as long as possible, but Elden Ring says no. Maybe next time
@emotionaljonxvx my major issue is more centered around weapons and ashes, I hope the DLC gives us MORE consistent and practical movesets and LESS L2 sticks
@@Bitter-Wounds We can only hope
Fromsoft when a host gets twinked: "Oh no, my sweet baby boy, I will protect you."
Fromsoft when an invader gets twinked: "Oh yeah, it's all coming together."
The thing with ganking is that in previous games there was harder away to completely obliterate a player or to spam them to death. In ER a lot of options encourage one-shotting a player with one aow, same for spamming magic from the distance while chipping away at their health bar or two-shotting them with comet.
In a game where two hits mean 90% of your health down every match is going to go faster usually, more so if it's a 2/3v1. The thing is, due to the rework of invading, invaders are hardly twinks or bullies that will stomo new players since hosts can summon overleveled phantoms and invaders will always invade someone on coop having 2 allies most of the times.
There has to be taken into account also the number of heals, the fact that running away from the PVE is easier than ever, how most PVE can also hurt the invader and that, should a co-invader appear (granted the host doesn't deactivate taunter's tongue to lure invaders and grief them), they're still exposed to friendly fire, which hosts and summons never suffer from.
My point is, with the variety of overpowered options at the hosts disposal, invading is no longer a twink kicking a deffenseless puppy but a chamce game in which most of the times you'll fight someone with similar gear aided by at least one people. I accept that invading in this game is getting oneself ready to be ganked, but the thing is, there's no fun or thrill in that anymore; if you lose to overwhelming odds you got nothing out of that, and if you take the upper hand the host can always disconnect or you don't get the same reward you'd get co-invading, it's just a game of attrition slowly mowing down three people.
And that's without getting on topics such as how many invasions occur in open fields without cover making most fights just running around while three people spam projectiles boosted by two or three buffs from the distance.
I got my main character in DS3 to level 420 thanks to multiplayer. High level pvp after Sulyvahn have been some of the most fun I've had in my life, me and my friend would simply go there and wait for people to arrive. If only 1 invader showed up, one of us would duel, otherwise it was a mess of summons and invasions: aldritch servants would arrive, blues would try to help us, some other random invaders would show up. It was awesome, especially when one of us two died and it was a chase back just after Sulyvahn just to summon each other. Not to mention the number of strats and unique quirks that game had (using Rosaria's ring to stay hidden, using the Cat ring to quickly escape or the FAP ring glitch on the stairs, awesome whenever it turned into a 2v1 or 3v1)
And then Elden Ring came. It took everything good DS3 did and deleted it: as an invader, it is frustrating; as a ganker, it is boring. I could point out various problems I have with this game (namely the incredibly high damage output compared to DS3) but the biggest one is the 4 player limitation. Why? I understand it's a different game, that it is much much bigger and more focused on exploration, but shouldn't everything get better? This game killed fight clubs and brawls simultaneously.
There is, for me, no incentive whatsoever to play pvp in ER. It's a game of spin the wheel: will you get ganked by a 2 guys who cleared the area, 3 guys who cleared the area or will you encounter 2 total newbies?
I think in Elden Ring PvP Gank squad ganking is mostly just a griefing tool. It's not about pvp - it's about trolling with a side of petty revenge. About causing rage and negativity. It's also not about it being fun. Quite contrary, the idea seems to be to make sure the invaders gets to have no fun, which in turn is how the gank squad has fun. By hoping to any outer god that will listen to their plea, they just ruined someone's day and made them feel bad/to cause them to quit playing the game.
Oh, and as for 2v2 - I have never got to do this. Anytime I end up in a situation where it could occur, the second red backstabs me on purpose. Mostly to without fail after that to end up getting clobbered by the host and their pal. It's so stupid and annoying it's made me physically exclaim out loud: "Why would you do that?" When I am making it a point to demonstrate to the other red, I am peaceful and want to work together. But nope. Always a purposeful backstab, and always the other red gets killed after by the host and their buddy. I was under the impression, too, that there was supposed to be some sort of honor code between invaders, but I've never seen a single red follow it. Makes me wonder why do I even bother at this point? It's just frustrating to see what could be fun get crashed. Which seems to be the whole problem of Elden Ring PvP.
I also really dislike how after gaining enough levels, you can hardly do much with multiplayer. Elden Ring is odd in that way where it almost feels like the game is punishing you for bothering to play it long enough, as then you begin to get no multiplayer experiences due to how its match making system is beyond borked. I'd rather just get scaled down instead of sitting around for mostly nothingburgers.
I agree that the odds set it up to be entirely griefing in Elden Ring. It's why all I could really say is just that I miss what ganking could be and that as someone who has spent a lot of time on either side of the spectrum, Elden Ring ganking has zero appeal to me. 2v2 is unreliable and not nearly as much fun, and 3v1 has always been the worst case scenario, made all the worse by the volume of AoE and longrange death beams.
I definitely think griefing can come in as an invader too, but ganking with the powerscaling and openness of Elden Ring really makes it feel like From wanted to make sure people stop playing the game once they beat it.
I think they left out the scaling down of high level invaders to purposefully limit the range of tools they can use...
@@alessandrobaggi6129 Fair enough, early on. But when we are talking level ranges where people already got all the tools and are freely mixing and melding them to their liking, it becomes a very annoying thing. Way I see it, if you got a lot of people who want to engage in a game mode and are stopped from doing so by the game, then stands to reason there is a problem. I'm far from the first "high level" player to bring this up.
@@glatykoffi6672 ds3 automatically embers the player after a boss kill, so you are subjected to one invasion unless you go out of your way to suicide it off. They didn't try to kill pvp in ds3, it was after ds3 they killed it.
And I think the reason they killed pvp in elden ring was lapp twink losers at wall of lothric. The multiplayer is now entirely vestigal especially with spirit ashes completely replacing the need for coop.
I feel like it makes sense for people who have gotten invaded to get angry with invaders. When you're just trying to peacefully play the game and you get one shot by a random invader, it only makes sense for the host to them approach with far more caution and gank the red immediately on first sight. Its very easy for invaders to make the game feel bad, people reciprocating that is the natural progression.
Ganking is literally letting someone else play the game for you/the Host. Most of them can’t hold their own ground, at all. Even more when they lose one or two of their beloved yellow boyfriends, sooooo…
Yeah I’m sure there’s players even most who have their friends playing with them because they just wanna play the game like that but more or less it hinders their ability to learn the game in both PVE and PVP
So to you, If someone buys the game with their money and decides to play, LETS SAY, with a friend or whatever, and someone invades them, for your personal and subjective reason your want them tô say How they play...? I know souls players are judges and adjucators by themselves but that never cease to amuse me😂😂
@@Spid4r1 this is the mindset that consumerism is employed upon a lot of useful idiots like yourself we’re all playing a game here my guy no different from playing baseball or any other sport only differences. It’s a video game balancing changes is only fair
@@Spid4r1 portuguese speaker detected, caralho engaged.
@@Spid4r1soyjak
How do you feel about a non rune arc'd host with same level phantom that turn on tongue and duels until the invader gets a teammate and thus becomes a 2v2? PC coliseum 2v2s have to be organized or are just dead.
2v2 is cool, it's just extremely unreliable. Not exactly ganking just because of the balancing, even though invaders aren't on a team and don't share the advantage. I really only love 3v3 and 4v2 so anything less just doesn't hit the same.
@@emotionaljonxvx Yeah, the 4 player limit on ER is just a shame. We didn't know what we had in the ds1~3 days
In Elden Ring, it is possible to make ganks that are ACTUALLY unbeatable, and I mean that. The amount of spell spam you can do in Elden Ring with 3 players can be equivalent to using cheat engine and firing a bunch of spells at once, the invader gets frametrapped or has no chance to do anything but attempt dodging, all the while their health gets chipped down... DS3 had it's own charm that was destroyed with Elden Ring and I sadly do not see that charm coming back with the DLC. Hopefully their next souls type game isn't this bad in the PvP regard.
An the password summons going in unscaled to basically one shot a boss or dropping there friends endgame gear
Yep and you can always summon a friend who is over leveled like lvl 400 at lvl 100 or you could just have a three man gang using duel bleed nagis The option serving an absolute tumor are just endless for ganks
I recently got deeper into pvp and honestly it’s apart of the game you just gotta accept.
Sometimes there are ways around it
Sometimes you just gotta take the loss
Taking on a team of ppl is wild regardless so prepare and try things out.
Some Gank setups will actually be interesting to take on and creative.
Unrelated to the topic of ganking, but I like that you wrote a script for your video to explain a topic such as this. Speaking into an open mic has its charm but when approaching subjects like this one its better to have a plan. Good job, man.
Ganking is a justified evil for me to feel badass in a 4v1
Yes, but it's case by case. I think it's justifiable to gank a mega-twink. Some invader at level 15 using rot pots, and giant's flame take thee. Of course I have heard arguments that invaders need overpowered stuff at low levels to deal with overleveled phantoms. There are two problems with this. One is if they have end game overpowered stuff they could have leveled out of low level, and experienced less overleveled phantoms. Two, as a person who has ganked, every twink invader I see no matter what, uses the end game stuff regardless if there is an overleveled phantom, or not.
On the other hand it is just a game, and people who invade tend to say invading is justified because it's a inbuilt game mechanic. In that sense I think groups of coop can gank, but I personally think that a gank should be at that very least polite to an invader who isn't a mega-twink. All we have is our humanity deciding this stuff, and we could choose to switch to a fight club when the moment is appropriate. An invader can be a fresh pvper too. Not all invaders are old hardened players that went to the end game to build the finest twink ever.
To me Invasions is part of the identity of the Soulsborne franchise--and much like how Hosts run the risk of Invasions, it's only fair that we run the risk of being ganked. I hope that they bring back Invasion Covenants though--one of the best parts of the invasions to me
Ganking and twinking are just two sides of the same coin: players leveraging the flawed mechanics of the online play to have the most unfair fights possible. Players will justify using unfair strategies because of other players using things they perceive as unfair or lame. Ultimately the problems with ER PVP have to do with the fundamental balancing of the game which makes so many "cheap" strategies popular among both hosts and invaders.
I don't join in ganking invaders when the host is farming them. It feels gross. I prefer fighting world bosses and fighting the invader at the same time. something to add an advantage to the environment. But also it's a game no moral question needed
Here's the thing I don't get. It's so easy to not get invaded, and if you are invaded and stick to the online consent form (we all literally agree to every time we open the game) and don't disconnect wich many who get mad at the mad red men do, then you don't have the ability to get invaded again for like 20 minutes.
I'm not a invader, and this isn't everyone, but disconnecters are not uncommon and it's worth saying that it is pretty much only to their detrament to disconnect constantly. Different issue then the video, but one with lots of overlap.
Man....the nostalgia.....great video!!!!!
I need to know that song at the end, please!
Strong and Strike from Naruto
What about the Colosseum Update?
Watching you invade in Lapps with ds axe throwing dung pies makes me so angry
Yeah, I didn't feel good about getting that footage. Felt it was necessary to demonstrate for those who never experienced it.
If someone just wants to play the game and beat a level, I feel like it’s justified. But if people are straight up baiting invaders to gank, then that’s just low
So much of these ganks can be nullified if you use Law Of Regression, especially the immortality gank
That fight at the end was amazing.
Ive never heard such a good defence for something that I had no idea existed
You're welcome
When elden ring first came out, the multiplayer was actually very fun around level 40 at the academy with my ultra greatsword and bloodhound step. But that was only because bloodhound step made it possible to be at even footing with an often inexperienced gank squad
Souls pvp is at its best those first few weeks, until everyone figures out the meta and start abusing the same 4-5 weapons.
Ganking is just sad.
These multiplayer diaries have been top notch.
Okay, but why did that one ganker use scarlet aeonia as part of their setup? In what world is that a good ganker incantation?
Gankers aren't known for being the most intelligent creatures
Any large AoE is good if you have two othet spammers backing you up.
I loved the 2 v 3 at pontiffs in ds3 the most intense pvping and the most fun ive had as a purple or orange spirit
DS3 invading will always be a soft spot in my heart definitly miss those days
i think other fundamental problems is the reason invasions typicaly arent fun, such as ridiculously high damage and spamming. All co-opers/gankers generally have to do is spam aows to win(not a single brain cell needed). For example, getting stun-locked to death because you got hit by the 14th reduvia thrown at you. Invasions are supposed to be challenging, that's a given, but some invasions feel overly oppressive and just not fun
Speaking broadly, absolutely. I really don't care for Elden Ring's power scaling when compared to previous entries. I love sword and sorcery, not as crazy about swords made of sorcery. In Dark Souls 3, I felt like I had a good chance of back & forth regardless of how potent my build was, but in Elden Ring I know high level invasions means high, constant damage. There are always exceptions but Elden Ring has pushed the scaling considerably higher and I'm not a fan.
i heard its possible to have 2 invaders in one game of elden ring if one is a Bloody Finger and the other a Recusant but that would most likely require insane luck and maybe a blue guy to be in the game
You can do 2v2 with invaders of any type, but then the host can only have 1 phantom. The invaders cap at 2 but the host could get 2 phantoms or 2 blues or whatever, it's just not very reliable.
Sword and board level 35 parry builds were my thing. I was the scourge of if the catacombs and chapel.
i played so much multiplayer in ds2 and ds3 in a variety of ways (co-op, covenant summoning/invading, invasions, fight clubs) and i was so hyped for what innovations Elden Ring would bring on this front. It so very disappointing to see the state of multiplayer throughout the early life of the game, especially when that's the most densely populated it would ever be. I realized I would never get randomly invaded as a solo player, removing the signature tension that souls games have always had. I realized I would always be invading into a 2-on-1 or worse odds. That there were no covenant-based battleground areas, which were my favorite things in the previous games. That wearing the blue ring would usually be bringing me into a now 3-on-1 fight. But worst of all, the connectivity was so broken early on for PC that eventually I gave up even trying to help people in PVE co-op. Connectivity eventually got fixed and I've enjoyed a lot of co-op and what little PVP I've bothered with, but it's such a let down that my favorite aspect of these games has been gutted (in what seems to be a purposeful way).
I'm hoping there will be some new multiplayer modes with this new expansion, but I'm not holding my breath...
As someone who has finally started just taunter's tonguing (lol sounds lewd) to lure invaders while playing solo, I have grown to enjoy the challenge but hearing your side of the story makes me wanna experience the Invasion experience of dark souls 3.
Nice man! I love this type of content. You remind me of the old Amish and Sillydogs of yore.
I don't even play Elden Ring, the pvp is a joke to me, since day 1. And a total disgrace to what came before. But I love this type of reflective content, keep it up!
Yeah I saw the player limit in the dlc and was devastated.
The future looks bleak
Fingers crossed for a dedicated PvP area
Elden Ring was my first Fromsoft game. I had no idea it was multiplayer or that they had been doing it since Dark Souls. I have no desire to play against anyone else. I don't care about competition or bragging rights, and I don't care if someone's build or Internet speed is better than mine. I even play offline only so I don't have to see messages, bloodstains, or phantoms running around.
Thanks for giving us the other side's point of view, my man. I can't believe ER pvp was able to ruin the experience for invaders AND some gankers XD Truly, Miyazaki has outdone himself.
I recently heard from an invader that his first experience with ds3 pvp was being a blue fending off invaders to rack up the skill required for invading himself. It's nice to know not all gankers are just self-righteous red haters.
if i simply had to take a guess From just looked at the win/loss ratio of hosts and kept buffing them in order to reach an acceptable percentage. i don't agree with some of the changes but this is largely brought on by twinks and imo may be From nerfing what they consider as unfair as most invaders have way more hours in the game than most hosts/co-opers. honestly the PVE in ER is leagues higher than any other DS game, piling on top of that an invader that is actually good is an unwinnable situation for a host even with a gank. you can essentially view it as skill based matchmaking but instead of rank it's number of opponents.
it's likely very hard for invaders to understand since they (no offense, i've seen probably hundreds of videos of invader ranting) are pretty short sighted. an invader can essentially hold your world hostage and in the open world they can for the most part hide and prevent the host from resting and drain them of resources and wait for a kill opportunity especially during an open world boss, against an elite, gravity assist, or the most common one is to drag the host and phantoms into a never ending gauntlet of mobs, this may be what From wanted out of invaders but it does not feel skillful or satisfying. i tried invasions at the start and i didn't find it fun as it essentially pigeonholes you to a certain playstyle so i just went back to duels/arena and recently co-oping.
i definitely agree i preferred DS3's invasion and dmg scaling better. essentially the dmg of R1/R2 are way too low compared to AOW which is why most players just spam them (i feel the majority of them should be utiltiy focused rather than dmg focused). compared to DS3 where dmg was much higher in terms of % of hp taken without the ability to delete a phantom in a few seconds you will perpetually be on the back foot. early ER dmg scaling was right imo, with some certain exceptions. (the pvp dmg modifier in my opinion is what forces invasions to be such a slog, yet every invader praises it) i personally think having the DLC area set to 6 player maximums would be ideal and may bring back gank city, but is dependent on the level design. personally i don't know a solution that would "fix" ER invasions tbh i don't think anyone does not From not even invaders themselves as most solutions are just buffs to themselves. having a 3v2 imo would just have invaders winning most matchups as for some seemingly weird reason From seems to have opted to nerf invaders rather than balance the things in game.
I like how now I've heard from every angle that people want 6 player co-op limit and dedicated invasion zones. The player limit idk why they went back to but the 2nd ask could easily be solved with covenants
Excellent video, couldn't have said it better myself
I remember in dark souls 3, I started bowing in duels and in invasions and 95% of the players would do the same. Elden ring players would never do that or let others do that, too many new players don’t know etiquette due to lack of fight clubs. I stopped bowing myself because at the end of the day, invaders are the “bad guy” instead of a faction like dark souls
That’s a big problem with the PVP now there’s too many new players who just don’t know the etiquette that’s been built up through the soul series
Tbh as far as I am concerned. I am a mercenary. I do not care I just wanna play. Invading, Ganking, Blue summon and other shit I don't care. I just wanna play.
the argument of "you cant demand quality or consistency" is really bad. yes i absolutely can bc i paid money for this product. where would humans be now if we didnt expect quality from the things we made? thats like telling a North Korean he cant demand a better quality of life because the standard of living in North Korea is just what the government has facilitated so it is what it is. its a REALLY bad argument.
later what you said about Elden Ring i can get on board with though, i was expecting a better pvp experience. i had no delusions about invasions going back to how they were in ds1, but i was totally NOT expecting an even lower player limit, no covenants, and no invasion zones. that was just wild to me lol.
Well I did have the qualifier that you can't demand quality or consistency beyond what the game facilitates. Sorry if that point wasn't clear. I don't think it's okay for the experience to be crappy, just that the game allows players to be however they want and that's more on the game rather than the player.
As an invader, sometimes trying to beat gankers over and over felt like insanity.
So I stopped now I go over the coliseum to enjoy pvp but coliseum has somes cons like the small arena that magic spammers can take advantage of and of for Playstation fellows we all now none go over limbgrave or caelid coliseum meaning that 2vs2 or free for all is kind of dead for us.
Therefore now I am the one getting invade of course without ganking.
I constantly wear the trick mirror, because fashion. Does this still make me the badredman? Things that make you go hmmm...
I’ve always loved the ganks, yea they can be toxic but what multiplayer in a video game isn’t toxic to some extent. I’ve always seen ganks as an extreme challenge that pushes me to my limits on map understanding, being aware of surroundings and combat. It’s a great challenge that gives a great deal of satisfaction whenever you beat one.
And Elden ring has just brought that challenge to even more ridiculous extremes. I love it.
Broooo you can't pull out the poop slinging Ds3 invader. That type of player is 100% the reason gankers hate the bad red man so much lol
Saw way more poop from pontiff ganks than i ever did invaders back then. There's a reason they are called sh*tters. That said, legit ganks provided a lot of fun challenge in DS3. Fighting an even halfway honorable gank in DS3 was the most fun I've ever had with these games.
@@joshuathompson2404 Exactly because it goes both ways. Someone got poop thrown at them once and the rivalry was born. Also totally agree ganks were how I had a fun fight after you get too good at 1v1
I have experienced a lot of gankers at my time in invasions, and while the gankers in question would win most fights on the count of 2 to 3 against one, in all honesty, it does take the fun out of PvP in Elden Ring. Which is why I use the taunter’s tongue to give some players wishing to invade a fighting chance while showing respect to one another like we should. Of course, I might experience some actual hackers or cheaters. Hence is why I needed to put on the white cipher ring. And I don’t rely on sorcery/incantation spamming because i would try things differently in my own way. Not every single player I encountered that does gank are toxic. There are some if any do show some degree of respect to those trying to invade.
For sure. Gankers are not a monolith and there's all sorts of nuance in these games, which I love. I just wish Elden Ring saw fit to allow for more of it, instead of giving people so few options or incentives for interaction. Ganking & gankbreaking used to be highlights for me but now I have no interest. It's just not the same.
This video is solid heres to my DS3 veterans
Gonna be honest I think if someone is literally INVADING someone else’s world, they should go in expecting the unexpected. Why would someone play fair if they’re literally being invaded? Just my thoughts on it
Exactly, the expectation of fairness makes no sense.
@@Undeadsheperd in most cases when people say " fairness " they don't really mean fight me 1v1 ( well some do but we got something for that already ) but what they mainly mean is give the invader something as well. Everything is 100% in the host favor. Invaders get their stats, etc cut. In previous games yes it happens but they also allowed for invaders to POSSIBLY get back up or they had covenants for invaders or the mad phantoms ( though people had no idea how to play that they just acted like an invader instead of being the double agent ). There was more to invading than just go and get ganked. TLDR: Give the invaders a little something also be it a cool weapon or spell or what have you ( its not a lot but a start ). Player invasions should be more exciting and not treated like an NPC invasion.
@@OtaniNoAsagi I see what you mean but I don’t really mind how Elden Ring does things.
If those changes happen that you want then I’d like them too but I’m ok if things stay how they are.
The chaotic nature of Elden Ring pvp is fun to me.
I agree. Hiding in an unreachable area to farm invaders is unexpected, and is a practice that should be promoted 🤡
There's nothing wrong with asymmetrical gameplay I loved Evolve for the longest time. It gets unfair when I see a 300 hp host with his overleved phantoms in Limgrave that both have bleed setups w/ paired curved swords, and both take 100 damage max if that. Nothing about that is organic or even close to fun it's fucking boring for both sides and sucks any engagement I had with the game for the night an it ruins invasions
imo there’s a very big difference between dedicated gankers, and pve players who gank you because you happened to invade them.
Very true, I don't mean to lump everyone into one motivation. Just wanted to speak to how frustrating the multiplayer setup is compared to what it used to be.
@@emotionaljonxvx Yeah I get that I just wrote that to clear it up for people who think all gankers are dedicated gankers. Btw I’m mainly an invader.
There’s definitely a difference but it’s certainly not their skill
I've done close to a 1000 invasions in DS3, but maybe only 100-150 in ER. Its just not the same anymore.
Too true. I'm trying to make the best of it and never want to rule out the possibilities the DLC could bring but it's definitely been a downgrade in a lot of significant areas. Maybe next game in 5+ years we'll get something better.
Great video Jon, as an invader I have thought numerous times "Who the f*ck are these people" and accepted that without gankers there are no invaders as is the ecosystem.
Im glad I can finally hear thoughts and perspective from a person who ganked previously. I think your experience though may be quite a bit different from most gankers.
You turned red because you had a drive to improve your skill at the game and began viewing it from a individualistic perspective, however if you look into dedicated gankers YT channels you will find that they really are fanatical about hating invaders, and good players/streamers. They genuinely view ganking as superior and in the right.
I completely understand where they're coming from and I'm sure I'm not very representative of gankers broadly. Part of me appreciates that sort of fanaticism existing because it's so motivating for players and drives conflict, which in turn helps invasions thrive. Then again, Elden Ring has opted to devalue any variance ganking could have, and the idea that invaders are a net negative can cause people to never even give it a try. It's a tough situation and I hope one day FromSoft will have a better answer.
Personally as an invader i wouldnt mind the ganks if its just creative trolling
lmfao that ending was beautiful
Im sorry man tbh, if you had experienced forest gankers from ds1 in 2012 or 2013, your feelings towards ganks might be much different. Watching them take different shapes in ds2 was also interesting because of the absence of miyazaki's limp left hand
1:36 "In its most basic form, you should understand and accept that risk when you invade."
How I wish the other invaders will have this mindset, when the very same demand that the host to: "Accept and understand the risk of being invaded when you summon your friend to play the game with you."
And as for Elden Ring PvP? Well, I think we can all agree it's a severe, unneeded downgrade from DS3.
I missed that one time when I invaded a fight club at pontiff as a mad tongue, and it turned into a crazy chase.
I get why people get stuck in their own perspective, for better or worse. My favorite thing about making these videos is getting to analyze my own biases.
And I get to complain about how I want my fun game mode back.
@@emotionaljonxvx Fair, it's not wrong to complain. But sometimes the targets of the complaints end up against the wrong, sometimes innocent parties.
That's why sometimes I try to put out comments that are from perspectives of hosts/summons/phantoms.
Sadly you're one of the very few who are willing to open-mindedly get into a discussion.
If invasions are "intended mechanics", then so is ganking, especially since (without use of special item by host) it is not possible to invade solo host
Gravelording at level 10-25 in ds1 is great, avelyn with lightning bolts can one shot some players and its extremely active
I miss gravelording and I'm very glad it still exists.
Lmao nice, reminds me of the xbox 360 days getting hatemail for cursing ng+ players. Nobody sends hatemail anymore lol
@emotionaljonxvx it's still active, I get invaded by 5 blues every single time...sometimes that's a bit too active but it's very fun when you're a twink just ripping through their health bars with infinite poise and quelaags sword XD
"if they win, despite overwhelming odds, you can always try again..."
So basically invaders are a microcosm of the entire game's experience, a mini-boss of sorts which extends the base mechanic of getting better. I'm on their side. And the host's/ganker's side. Whatever is in the game is there to be used. It's all fair.
I agree that ER killed the team deathmatch funtimes though. FromSoft has always hated invaders and made things worse for them, but ER really destroyed the experience that took years to culminate in DS3. Either we return to DS3's much less active PVP now, or simply wait for From to get over their open world fad/phase.
The key, sadly, was already given to us before ER released. They said they want to make PVP "less frustrating for all". So they killed it.
It's funny, despite all the frustrations I've had over the years with this series and the things it does, the most frustrating have been the things they didn't do.
You’re aggressively delusional if you think From hates invaders.
Fromsoft does not hate invaders. I don’t know why people have convinced themselves of this. Also, given that ER is the closest to Miyazaki’s desired game? Cope
Have you considered he may have just said that to generate hype? He may be an imaginative creator but he's still president of a company. He said in the past that DS1 was a dream of his to make, and then that BB was his personal favourite. Who knows what's true?
All we can say is, things have become shittier for invaders over each game.
@@ianwilliams2632 Yes, I have considered that. However that’s never how he presents himself. That statement was stated casually with very little exaggeration on his part. Heck Miyazaki has always unstated his games. Him just hyping this game off pure marketing cynicism is inconsistent with what we know *publicly* about him. Lest you forget his speech in the game awards and in other interviews that they won’t let ER success how they approach making games. I think From and Miyazaki deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Haven't had a chance to watch the video yet, but I just wanted to say that the concept has me already quite engaged.
Excited to hear your take.
Nice vid, i was a proud wacthdog of farron in ds3, tonight i will be invading and doing coop with me rl120 character and his Morgott cursed sword.
Ds3 invasions were hot garbage. Elden ring’s invasions are a bag of warm dogshit
Why does it have to be, whiners going to whine regardless. Worse, online gaming with some imbecilic thought process of "fairness" breeds more whining.
My problem with er is that in ds3 I could confidently fight a gank against a gank even with a broken straight sword and have fun, now it isn't fun no matter how good I get
you was a WHAT, blood??
i sentence you to 100,000 invasions
You got it, boss.
Dude ganking is literally like the funniest thing ever, me and my buddies used to do that in dark souls 3 all the time, we would use that item that turns you into a tree or something, then the host would lure him over to us and we would annihilate him lmao funnest shit i ever did with the boys.
the closest I have ever come to "ganking" is as you describe you and your freinds did (except I was with randos). I would get summoned behind pontiff and join 3v3s with weird builds, cosplays, and the like.
I don't have any real opinion outside of min-max ganking AND min-max twink invaders being bad, try-hard anti-fun.
what I will say is watching the gameplay makes me wanna go back to DS3 or at least just have significantly lower times to kill in elden ring PvP
If they could just bump the max player count to 8, 3 summons and 4 invaders. And then also toned down player damage output for PvP by like 40% Elden Ring would be awesome. Invading Gank squads who spam ashes of war and miracles while chasing you for 20 minutes before pointing down just isn't the same to me.
I find the invaders are usually far more skilled players. So the gankers try to exploit the only advantage they find.
No, man... Not the point+down-and-throw-crap... It's neither cool nor tasteful, even when they deserve it...
In ER i limited myself to usual duels at the academy (sadly brief, because of bad dmg-to-hp ratio ingame) and being invaded by popping the TT myself.
I ALWAYS played the blue, in any souls, but ER... I really see no point in helping hosts here. (I must add i often disconnected in past titles when called by a gank squad, or ended myself to give flasks to the invaders in disadvantage).
Why normies (and the damned BamCo) had to ruin an almost perfect formula? 🤦🤦🤦
I felt real dirty getting that Lapp twink footage but I felt compelled to demonstrate for those who have never seen it. I find it so novel in hindsight but it is a horrible way to die.
We just need honor
ds3 had some big issues too tho with its multiplayer... people seems to forget..
these arguments come back every few years... almost the same topics, like its 2018 ds3
I totally agree, DS3 was far from perfect. Elden ring made a lot of helpful mechanical changes, just wish they wouldn't have backpedaled on the things that helped facilitate large scale and repeatable multiplayer. Dark Souls 3, for all its flaws, let us play more.
@@emotionaljonxvx yea 20million copies sold and the pvp is a meme :(
Lets pray for the dlc
in my opinion it doesnt really matter and just makes invading more fun for me and ganking is also fun
I usually end up as a ganker because I enjoy playing the game with friends, and don't like invasions.
I do try not to bombard an invader with the many of us- thinking more in a "swap-out" style of engagement, but sometimes we do feel the need to try and overwhelm an invader.
Thankfully, with Seamless Co-op, I don't need to worry about being invaded... only the npc invaders who kick my ass harder than most of the bosses.
I would like to add that I'm also so bad at PvP that the invader almost always won anyways, so it's not like my ganking benefitted me at all.
Hard agree, the only thing fun about ER ganking is the pure sadism surrounding it. 2 man ganking is fun but I wish the 6 player limit was still around.
The fact that a nuanced take like this is so rare is proof that this community is a cesspool.
A nuisance to take is rare because this is a very divisive issue