Winning in Arenas should provide Ancient Smithing Stones or other limited-per-run consumables. It would incentivize more casual players (who don't use CE of course) to participate more. Cosmetic rewards like in DS2 would be great too, and super easy to implement.
I want infinite larval tears so badly. I hate playing through the game again just to try a new build and the fact that you only get 10 character slots only adds to the insanity of how rigid this game can be for no good reason.
remember when ds2 gave you a unique aura if you climbed high enough in the pvp arenas? it was small, but it served as a badge of pride and that was enough. it don't need to be that complicated
I think you should get this video translated to Japanese and sent to Bandai Namco as feedback. That would massively increase the chance Fromsoft could get the message.
Fromsoft knows that they don't care at all about invasions, duels, and overall PvP. It's very clear that they don't test anything in PvP scenarios before release and it takes constant hassling to get anything "balanced". Even if you went through the trouble of handing Miyazaki himself gold plates containing constructive feedback regarding PvP in Elden Ring nothing would change. It took a game that he wasn't involved with (Dark Souls 2) for PvP and overall player interactivity to be at its prime.
@@DropoutJerome if FromSoft didn't care about PvP, they wouldn't have released so many updates that only target PvP changes, go outside and touch grass
@@DropoutJerome There was literally a japanese translated video given to bandai, forwarded to fromsoft, that ended up being copied word for word in the next patch notes. They DO care about the game, they DO care about pvp. But I don't think a single person at Fromsoft actually speaks english.
JeeNine made that Japanese translation video to software and I can confirm they did see it and made changes according to the video so I highly recommend the community in general
Absolutely add rewards: larval tears, ancient dragon stones, lost ashes of war, anything that is finite during one playthrough. They could even reward you with items that are specific to certain side quest outcomes: I helped Millicent against her sisters, now I can kill 10 folks in the arena to get her Prosthesis Talisman (or something like that). Also add arenas that differ from ‘flat circle’, like the dragon ruins arena from DS3 where you could plan ambushes around corners. Just something to make us want to use the colosseum and a way to make two matches different and unique from each other.
Larval tears would be the absolute best I think. I’m quite hesitant to respec due to their scarcity, and despite being a collector, I just never went after spells because I knew I would never add any stats into a casting build. If there was a way to earn larval tears I would be much more willing to try a caster build from time to time, which then increases my player retention for fromsoft, win-win
2v2 and 3v3 are dead. Duels are stupid, for me mostly because of the arena. Yeah let's give players a circle the size of a fucking stadium. There's no pressure, no corners. People run away, play so passive it makes me fucking sick. Arenas for duels need to be smaller and rectangular
Your videos feel nostalgic in a way. They sort of remind me of the days when I'd listen to martyrsbrigade99 commentary about PvP while doin some highspeed invasions in the forest.
It doesn’t help the matchmaking system is bad, if people don’t have the SAME exact settings they won’t get paired up, IE- someone chooses any arena and the other player only wants to play in the calid coliseum, they won’t get matched up, and I’m pretty sure if you have a password set for 2v2’s you can only face other players with a password set for 2v2 I think they could easily work around this and make it so more players can reach each other
If they just moved the statue to the roundtable basement, at least you could test out your weapons and stuff while you were waiting instead of just jumping on and off the table. That of course would only solve one of these problems, but it would be so easy to do.
As a pure sorcery caster: Worth noting, magic doesn't also get much out of the open sandpit arena design. Most 1v1 matches are kiting matches, with a melee player just chasing you down and trying to find openings to cast spells. It's frankly annoying to not have any terrain to use to shake em. Never tried a group match cause matchmaking woes. I don't think it's unfair for PvP to have rewards you can earn by doing pvp. The game already has a "you don't get to have your cake and eat it too" logic to how invasions work. Players getting things for doing things they enjoy sounds like a hoot. Players who don't enjoy it don't need to bother with that. It only becomes unfair if one has a deep factionalism based mentality and wants to have sides in the community that try to kill each other's game modes to establish total opinion dominance. Rather than seeing it as a "they got something, and we didn't!", I think to such a hypothetical person it's worth pointing out the very issue is they have turned it into "Us Vs Them" to begin with. Or deals in hyperbolic absolutes where something they don't much care for must also to boot be a complete, utter, irredeemable waste of time so they can happily ignore it completely without ever feeling like giving it a spin.
Fair points all around. For me, the magic issue sort of goes in both directions. Casters would benefit from obstacles and multiple floors when they otherwise have no way to protect themselves from melee rushes like in a duel. On the other hand, melee players would benefit from the same thing in team matches where the caster is free to spam away and there's nowhere to take cover. In both cases, I think better arenas are an improvement. And yeah, I understand completely what you're talking about with the factional mentalities because I'm certainly guilty of factionalism as a primarily PVP player when I get comment after comment from people who just want PVP out of the game entirely. Really would like to see more community unity around the one series that actually has its systems intertwined in an interesting way.
@@emotionaljonxvx I think, as has become very apparent lately, Elden Ring is suffering from a deep-rooted Fandom purity culture. Much like just about every other Fandom. Rather than multiple, differing takes and opinions all being as valid (due to all being opinions), Fandom purity culture asserts there can only be one "correct" way of interpreting or feeling about something. Per this thinking, all others are wrong and one has to be crazy to think so. As nobody wants to be deemed as the crazy wierdos of the fandom, it creates a nasty environment where many will try to push to create that "one true way" to then have control to defy what a piece of work is as per their own tastes. This is why I brought up the point about total opinion dominance. Fandom purity culture (ever present and pretty much everywhere) has created a strong "Us Vs Them" mindset. It's thus part of a bigger problem that goes beyond Elden Ring. The "get pvp out!" mindset has a lot of thoughts that go unsaid. One of them I would pressure is the idea if pvp gets anything, then it somehow becomes a threat to their way of enjoying the game. If it gets even more, it might just mean they become the random weirdos of the fandom due to that irksome "One true way" thinking. These things thus get put on pedestals, turned into representative totems of points, and battlefields for opinion dominance, which then goes into viewing anyone who does not agree with one as a hostile or threat. All that to say - the issue is needlessly complicated by how all fandoms - Elden ring included - are choosing to behave. Where non-conforming opinions or takes are treated as the work of a hostile agent or enemy out to ruin the fun of things. Solidified by a general lack of trust towards anyone who says anything. And when distrust and assumed hostility is the basis of the interaction, it's incredibly hard to get someone to listen to even a single word being said. No matter what olive branches or gestures of good faith are given. Even worse, many of these things are so internalized and normalized, many people don't even realize when they are partaking in purity culture nonsense. Making them incapable of even explaining why they act they way they are. An honest conversation in good faith for some reason has become the ultimate poisoned well. And everyone suffers for it.
Problem is that ill just get plusidusax roared behind cover anyway. With so many powerful spells, rewards would mean mages will just spam harder to win. Same with swift slash or anything. Honor goes out the window
I think they should just make all weapons scale to the same level and all players scale to the bottom of a bracket.. so if it’s 100-150… everyone scales down to 100 to even it out and all weapon levels are all the same so it’s more about skill and anyone can match up with anyone
Once again, the PvP gamemodes are totally screwed over by some dumb design choice that anyone that has ever played one single PvP match would've noticed. They do not care.
I think one of two things might happen in the future of souls. Either they go back to smaller games so that they dont have to allocate an unreasonable ammpunt of time and resources to making a huge open world; giving them the oportunity to fine tune their multiplayer and perfect the truly unique blend of PvE and PvP. Or, they separate them entirely. They fully commit to disregarding multiplayet, focus on PvE and if we are lucky they release a PvP focused game somewhere along the line.
Larvar Tears should be added as a rewards for Arenas/Invasion. to allow for more character building and theory crafting. and give more initiative for PVP and replayability of your game.
Funnily enough, DS2 was the game that gave the most focus to PVP (outside of the cursed soul memory system). But, let's be honest, the fact you can have a 3v3 in the Arena (but not in Invasions) is something else. To add to that, why did they have to get rid of the Purples from DS3? They were so fun. Some choices made in Elden Ring's design are head scratchers for sure.
Death coven - summoned to protect those that walk in death near large mass graveyards Rot Coven - summoned to bathe tarnished in scarlet rot, summoned in areas like Aeonian swamp, grand cloister, lower section of the haligtree Nokron/siofra invaders - invade in the starry underground sections. Just a few off the top of my head covens that would EASILY fit into lore
Some of the most fun I've had with Souls PvP was with the Remastest mod for Dark Souls 1. Those ported-over Halo maps played surprisingly well with all the verticality, obstacles and chokepoints to fight in.
Its sad Duel Arena is like this not to say its bad but its just bland this makes DS3 D.A looks better, hearing the co-director Yui Tanimura (Director of DS2) made me gave hope of PVP's future since DS2 pvp was actually genuinely good. Though it is only 3 arenas (3 more if you count the Blue Sentinels) but each of those Arenas has great impact to the gameplay lets start with the "Brotherhood of Blood" arena: Arena 1 (a flat large circular stage with wooden scaffolding in the center with stair way): - basic well-rounded arena for all classes/builds Arena 2 (Labyrinthine arena with two levels. There are stairs in the corners of the arena which lead to the second level) - bizzare terrain but greatly known for its bridge pillars for recovery and anti pressure and at the top or 2nd floor known greatly for small spacing fights Arena 2 (A relatively long bridge that connects one side to another. Falling off the bridge will result in death) - THE BRIDGE OF DEATH "Blue Sentinel" arena Arena 1 (A two-level open square stage with statues in the middle like the pillars in Caelid arena) - nothing more say well-rounded as usual Arena 2 (A maze of small intersecting rooms, stairs at each corner allow you to go up on the narrow walls) - pretty much the same arena Labyrinthine arena but wider and 2nd floor is way more up Arena 3 (A narrow cross-shaped plaform high over water. Falling off the edge will result in death) - STAY AWAY FROM THE WATER great arena for its small spacing fights You know whats more great in Arena PvP? AURAS which has this flaming glowing effect around the player the greatest flex you could ever show to someone in PVP shows that its a High ranking player. There are 2 types: normal Aura acquiring 50 wins and second (which is the final) acquiring 150 wins gives you an Aura with white rimlight like a neon effect. Seeing players with Auras tells you to be ready or locked in like in a fighting game when reaching a promotion rank. Hope they add something cause if this is the end then "oh well"
Hot take that is very biased - arenas/ duels don’t matter and nothing should balanced around it. Instead it should all be downstream of invasions. Reason being, this isn’t a competitive fighting game, there are those games but other games don’t have invasions. Arena is still nice for testing or messing around but honestly every time I hear dedicated duelists opinions I just want to tell them to play street fighter or mortal kombat
Hey, I hear ya. The idea of "competitive" or "ranked" multiplayer in a game this inconsistent is certainly a little confusing. For me, I want it to be basically what Halo 3 Social Slayer / CTF was back in the day. No real need for rankings, just game modes where you fight in groups beyond the scope of the finite campaign. A place for dedicated PVP when you can't find someone to invade. For players to just play on repeat forever. No need to sweat like a meta-duelist or employ hit-and-run tactics just to stay alive. A fight for fighting's sake, with everyone of all skill levels encouraged to participate. But I dream...
@@emotionaljonxvx that’s totally fair. Great video btw. And maybe I phrased my comment poorly, i don’t hate duelists or anything even competitive players, I just feel like they want to put a square peg in a circle hole. Also I genuinely think a lot of them would enjoy their time more by playing a fighting game. 3v3s are a lot of fun every now and then imo, and even if I didn’t think that I don’t want them to remove the arena or anything. In a perfect world we could all have all the mechanics for all of these things, but in reality that isn’t going to happen and I see every step towards focusing on arena as a step away from focusing on invasions. Which is maybe not true but it is how I see it
@@emotionaljonxvx and like you said, non competitive arena is very different from competitive but I do kinda reduce them to be the same thing. Which isn’t really fair
@@James_Rustled I understand completely. Every issue I raise that doesn't directly relate to giving me back 3v3 in invasions feels arbitrary in one way or another. It's so hard to cope with a game that has completely removed practically everything that made the system fun in the first place. And we stick around because there isn't anywhere else to go. Where else can I make my own character with this sort of build diversity and combat while also having a robust and interesting single player experience? The competition just isn't there and FromSoft has fickle interests.
I generally agree with you when it comes to invasions, they do absolutely need to have the focus, but telling souls PvPers to play other games is incredibly disingenuous and completely missing the point. If they wanted to play a traditional fighting game they'd be doing that, you don't need to tell them. I'm especially puzzled whenever I see DmC fans telling PvP heads to play a Character Action Game instead and I'm like: Have you actually ever played a Souls Game? Have you tried the PvP? Don't think so tbh, because in no way a person with a functioning brain would think an Action RPG and a Character Action game are even remotely comparable gameplay wise.
The game is what it is. We need to hope the next time they make a souls-like title they have a design philosophy that doesn't allow the most ridiculous weapons or matchmaking.
How as a community can we work to make 3v3s more common? I never tried the arena much before the expansion, but have been having fun doing the united combat or 2v2s/3v3s. Problem is, while 2v2s are fun they can easily become steamrolls. While 3v3s feel like they have a lot more engaging back-and-forth. Except it's near impossible to queue into a 3v3. Hard agree on what you said about "partial teams" and needing to match with non-password players. But I feel like there's something we could try as a community, like somehow having specific times to go online for 3v3s or something like that.
On the talk of covenants I, while I feel it's easy to implement them, I also believe there's a way to add in a reward system for people who do coop and invasions. Different factions like furled fingers, hunters, bloody fingers and recusants can each get their own rewards for completing a multi-player session in exchange for new rewards. The recent Lords of the Fallen game had something similar, and I feel like elden ring could benefit from something like that
invaders are reason why things getting nerfed / buffed. it's not fun for pvers that invader uses something broken and wipes 3 ppl. fromsoft cares more of pver experience. also it's not fun to fight someone who uses glitches and crazy brainless stuff.
@@lukaogadze5071 Of course they care more for pvers, thats the majority of the playerbase lol. Pvp has always been a feature but never the main point of the game. Twinking is an issue you arent wrong, but to complain about having more things to try and use because of that is kinda bizzare.
I queued up on a lvl 90 character I used to invade in leyndell about a month after colloseums released. It took about 40 minutes to find a match and when I finally got into the arena, I got dced 10 seconds into the fight. Never interacted with the colloseum again, sticking with invasions, more fun anyway.
I agree with everything you've said. The only thing is I don't think the lack of pvp features is a design decision against those features, I believe the company is just so enveloped with development of the DLC and other games that they don't bother focusing on pvp. Even Shadow of the Erd Tree which is fantastic felt like the map was designed with a few more years of development in mind, but I think the company is shifting away from Elden Ring and Souls games for newer and fresher projects.
One of the bigger reasons why I never participated in the Arena's is because I didn't want to wait for minutes on end to get a duel going. I tried a couple of times, and the wait to find a match out weigh my interest to join one. A level bracket might be the answer to fix that. Either way, waiting around and doing nothing at the Round Table Hold isn't great. I was hoping they would of gave us an item that would allow us to enter an arena from anywhere in the world, similar to the invaders and coop fingers. It's incredible how outdated Fromsoft is where it comes to multiplayer and seeing the lost potential just upsets me. Like, World of Warcraft - a game that has been out for 20 years for example, has a level bracket for arenas and pvp content, and allows you to enter said pvp content from anywhere in the world. So, I just invade instead. I prefer invasions over arena's anyways because I love the chaos. But still, would be nice to have rewards for that too. Hopefully Fromsoft does something to address the issues, but I don't have much hope for it
Are you way over lvl 150? Make a 125 or 150 character. I'm at 150 and never wait more than like 15 seconds. Doesn't seem fun to play PVP at 200+, because you run into stuff like infinite mana 80 int mages with medium roll heavy armor, 2000 hp, and 100 poise etc. Unique builds don't even matter at that point.
I did see a post or two on Reddit mentioning that a PvE mode for the Colosseum selections would make for a fun replayable piece of content if it were ever added, slap in those rewards you mentioned and that'd be good for people without online or just wanting more casual battles against NPC Tarnished brandishing random Builds/Spirit Ashes. Something close enough to an infinitely replayable loop like the Chalice Dungeons from Bloodborne would be very nice in a game like Elden Ring.
I think fromsoft just really needs to sit down and reevaluate their aproach to multiplayer across the board. For example, the match making itself. Segmenting the player base across 714 levels is genuinely unhinged. It works for no one. It makes it impossible to balance, it makes it harder for people to match, its a broken sistem. Lower the level cap. Make 150 max level. Literally everyone wins. Even PvErs win. Scadoodoo wouldnt be necesary if the max level was reasonable. Even if the way they aproach multiplayer is still pretty uncharted territory, ER has taken a step back in pretty much every single way. Its wild that a game that they made more than 10 years ago has more effort and thought put into its multiplayer mechanics than a brand new game. It seems like they dont learn from the success and failures from their previous work on multiplayer. It honestly seems like they didnt think at all about multiplayer. Just slap the most barebones things that are expected in a FS multiplayer. Its like they dont want to do it. Like they feel obligated to do it because the most hardcore part of their audience loves it, but theres no passion or effort put into it.
definitely not an important thing to add, but i think it would be cool to have a colosseum mode that gives you a selection of specific character builds to choose from (made by the devs), and then fight other players that are selecting from the same pool, with rewards being gear from the build you used it would allow some once-per-playthrough weapons or rarely dropped armors to be more readily available, as well as the actual mode being easy to balance in comparison to the normal colosseum
This is Sparta !!!no cover needed, tho the spell spamming and backhand swift slash does frustrate me at times , I hope they patch certain hit boxes and either slightly weaken certain spam spells or extend there casting time forcing for more strategy than cheese
The dlc literally killed pvp. They literally buffed poise when it was in a good spot with 1.10 the day before the dlc so now we got a bunch if heavy ass walls trading bonks with no braincells. Im not even going to het into all the broken shit like swift slash , heal from afar , blind spot , sword of damn nation shitty hit box, a MADNESS FUCKING TORCH , fuck this game is a joke now.
@@wazaaup4993 ds2 did more right than wrong when it came to online, it suffered from bad execution and riding the high of ds1. Had the game been delayed to a ps4/xbone release at minimum it would be better received.
You said there arent brackets, but there are. X above x below. Upgrade level balancing helps, but honesltly has it ever been a big deal if you level health and actually use dps rings?
Sorry, I just meant set brackets that are not host dependent. I'd like to be able to find matchmaking at level 50 and under but with the current system, it's pretty much impossible.
I wish there was a special arena mode that took place in a large field (like the boss arena for Gaius) and forced every player on horseback, this could give a purpose to equipment like the lance talisman, certain spirit summons like the Leyndell Solider Ashes (spear soldiers have a move that can knock you off your horse) or the Spirit Raisins which gives torrent a boost attack. With the seamless co op mod it already shows that the engine can handle other players on horseback so I don't understand what was the point of adding the Lance Talisman or Raisins if torrent is only going to be used for traversal and certain bosses.
wait hold on, i appreciate the message but... 2:40 ???? the issue of the coliseums is that they are MASSIVE circular arenas, in any actual competitive context(ds3 old wolf arena, er's console tournament stormveil arena, er's den maps seaside arena, ec), arenas are not even 1/4th of the coliseum size, because ANY ranged build can just run away and keep spamming tracking projecties, slowly but surely wittling down any opponent if the range-weapon user wanted to, let alone the chance of regenerating throughout.
you're preaching to the choir man. A lot of possibilities with elden ring, many of them unfulfilled. I love this game but sad that they are abandoning it unfinished, so to speak
Considering they just dropped the DLC and have made statements about extending the life-span of Elden Ring because it sold so well, I wouldn't call it just yet. The time of the one who waits is long (Finnish proverb), but the DLC is brand fresh and has already sold over five million copies. The base game has sold over 25 million copies. They would be complete and utter fools to not bank on that and keep support going. The DLC is less than a month old. That ends the more factual part of my comment. This one is neither here nor there (so salt shaker warning is in effect), but I also heard some murmurs about From not being too happy about the state of pvp and as per rumor being in contact with the Elden ring Fexalife wiki people to see about getting some solutions in.
@@videocrowsnest5251I want to believe this, but I think the last part is kinda cope. TT is something that can be fixed in minutes and they haven’t, meaning that they’re fine with it. I wouldn’t lose complete hope tho.
It's certainly a possibility but I'd like to think they're open to making community-focused adjustments. They certainly have some interest in the systems as a whole but I think so much of their development time went into all the newer, shinier things like the open world, whereas PVP and other long-term functions fell to the wayside. In any case, they could make meaningful adjustments if they had a mind to and I'm hoping they follow through.
@@videocrowsnest5251You see thats the problem they're going to fexalife to fix pvp you might as well just go to the main subreddit it would be about just as effective.
The PvP is still trash. Came back to try it out after the DLC dropped. Even in the 1v1 arena, people will attack you immediately. Won’t let you buff or bow or anything. 80% of people are using the same 3 meta builds they saw online and are sweating their balls off. Healing flasks by default are disabled in the 1v1 arena but like half the people I play against if they start losing will just endlessly run away until they can heal with an incantation and then go back to trying to cheese you with Ash of war spam. No technique, no skill. Just mash L2 and see who’s AoW does more damage or who has hyperarmor and who doesn’t. I miss DS2 iron keep and DS3 pvp fight clubs. Rip. I would golf swing dudes of that bridge in DS2 all day.
13:00 there are already npc invaders that drop cool items so than can maybe add a few arena matches against npc´s for the rewards and than some regular items and consumables for the actual pvp so that palyer can learn how the arena works but the great rewards are not behind pvp exclusiv.
I will say that if the Elden Ring Colosseums had added just a gallows with stairs leading to the top in the center of the arena for one of the options, YES literally like Dark Souls 2 Blood Duelist Arena(it's the best arena imo), then I would be playing Elden Ring PvP instead of just putting my sign down for Co-Op and getting millions of runes I will never spend. The arena makes more sense for what I want, which is duels and team fights, but just like you said in the first two or three minutes, I simply do not want to engage unfortunately. It's not a good replacement or even consolation for missing out on six players invasions like in Dark Souls 3, it's just a downgrade because of the melting pot of ideas they had and which ones they discarded but should not have.
You both got violated at 4:00, that was wild haha. I remember trying arena and never getting a match in ER then proceeded to never try it again. I prefer invasions, but the invasions are just ganks. PvP is, as Sir Gideon would say a "sad state of affairs." If you think about it, Fromsoft is an outer god and they totally abandoned us PvPers haha.
I wish there was more incentive to level up more. I don’t want to max my stats to make me shot anyone, I’d rather have a fight than try to 1-2 hit. Would be awesome to See more varieties of builds. Maybe an area that allows 4-5 players per side would be cool too. Like in the DLC area, taunters tongue is on if you party with anyone and they same amount of players can invade as what’s in your party. And if a hunter comes in, another invader can too
I guess this take is hot and wrong, but I personally feel the lack of rewards for winning, as you state, is very intentional. Winning in itself is enough of a reward for most to be running whatever is overtuned this patch, and as someone who's very new and enjoys the roleplay aspects plus seeing a wide variety of weapons I'd just love the ancient smithing stones as much as I'd hate only smithscript weapons should support cycle end prior to the perpetual balance adjustments. What I'm saying is I play solo should I still download seamless coop
I’m gonna stop you right there chief. You know why the Arena is just a flat circle and not a twisty turney labyrinth or whatever? Because people; the overwhelming majority, wanted it that way. No one used the DS1 arena because of that. People gravitated to Brotherhood of Blood over Blue Sentinels arenas because they had the flat circle, and as soon as DS3 gave us the Irithyl flat circle arena, everyone chose that over the Lordran one. Why? Because fighting game enthusiasts don’t like gimmicks. No one chooses poké-floats for a duel. They choose the small platform with no stage hazards. Would I enjoy an Arena with swinging pendulums like Sens fortress? Yes. I would also enjoy a 6 player free for all where we can all use Spirit Summons- and we have that, but no one uses it because “gimmicks”. It’s the reason why the flat circular arena in Liurnia was chosen by the community for fight clubs. The reason why no one’s using Arena right now is because the PvP itself feels like a gimmick. Big flashy Ashes of War, everything destroying your health in one go or getting stunlocked, metas debilitating build variety.
Wtf are you talking about,pretty much every pvper I know wants small,rectangular arenas for 1v1.Also,every pvp content creator is asking for smaller arenas.
i really liked the arenas of ds2, they were not similar to eachother, and some of them required enviroment awareness, because you could fall to your death. for not saying by participating in the arenas, they would reward you with items. probably the worst part of them, were that they didn't have any matchimaking, so you could encounter a lv 10 player or a max player, that's one of the reason why the meta of that game was lv 150.
I've never seen someone so bad at souls PvP demand so much from it. There is a very large difference between Arena PvP/Duels and Invasions. Invasions are meant to be sporatic and have a level of randomness to it due to the environment. The Grace duels in Raya Lucaria proves this point. No one who seriously duels want verticality, remember how angry the community was with the poor showing that the DS3 arena maps were until they added Pontif's backyard as a (mostly) flat circle. As someone who has engaged with arena PvP since DS2 I am completely fine with how the arenas work in ER. The incentives are a larger problem that is fundamental to the game, there isn't much incentive for anything due to the open world design being the core focus of the game, the arena can't offer anything that would dimish the importance of exploration without it dumbing down the game experience for PvE, which is the main focus for the game. An example I can give is Invasions awarding Rune Arcs, whenever I make a new character I spend the first 2-3 hours doing nothing but invading to stock up on Rune Arc and levels which trivalized the experience/diminishes the risk/reward factor of using a consumable that is lost on death. The only realistic incentive I can see be added to the arena and to extension, invasions, is the DS2 style cosmetic changes, Radiant phantom glows, maybe a title to go along with the invasion name like the NPCs have. PvP is and always has been a 2nd thought in Fromsoft games, even more so in ER where it is limited in the way that it is, so the expect them to do anything meaningful with it is a recipe for disappointment.
So I think the fundamental difference here is that what I'm advocating for isn't dueling. Dueling is a thing the arena facilitates well enough. I want the arena to capture a wider scope of PVP, where players can compete without the highest skill level or most meta builds. To entertain modes that actually add some variety to the experience that wouldn't be just for the most dedicated PVPers. But hey, I'm bad at PVP.
They added the colisseum a while after the base game released, maybe there is hope for them addressing pvp in a few months? It's really disappointing though.
I just want better maps with more cover against spell and AOW spam something to give me and others an incentive to play modes beyond one on one battles.
The real thing we should do is submit support tickets to Bandai Namco until something happens for us. They have casualized the game for the masses. We aren’t asking for a lot in terms of changes just something geared towards us. Please people go submit support tickets, they’ll have to listen eventually
Played Elden Ring about 700 hours. Probably spent a grand total of 1 hour in the arenas. When I want to duel I just find a cool looking place in the world, pop my taunters tongue and go toe to toe with some invaders.
I agree with everything you say. I just like millions of others miss the covenants and the incentive in participating in "modes" throughout the game. But I had a crazy thought. Maybe...from soft doesn't want to incorporate these into the game so darksouls 3 can still strive seeing as elden ring is open world and souls games are far linear? 🤔 Curious to know if that's accurate or not. I hate the idea of from soft ignoring these issues to "cater" to everyone because at the end of the day when you play any souls game, you either "git gud" or "you die" 🤣
Talk about a can of worms… Anyhow, the only thing I don’t like is locking spells and weapons behind PvP (or at least, too much of it). My mind goes to the dark moon blade spell. I prefer having a character be one character, one build progression, per game. No changing partway through. In my mind, there’s no “you HAVE to level Dex, THEN you can level Int”-you can just be a Carian knight super easily, right off the rip. I don’t have to pretend for the first third of the game that my character is someone they aren’t. So, DS3, say I start up wanting to be a dark knight build, using a weapon that isn’t explicitly just a dark weapon. The same way you can still be a Carian knight, without requiring a specific thing like the Carian Knight sword-you can be like “yeah, this is my carian build”, while having a claymore be your main thing. You can accomplish this in more than one way-changing the ash to something magic, changing the infusion itself to be magic, or using the scholar’s armament spell. This makes *the weapon* fit the build. No prerequisites required. You can change the claymore, or whatever, in ER to fit *any* possible idea for a build, super quickly. You can make your character much more obviously what they’re meant to be, much more quickly. If I want to be a dark guy with the awesome purple color of magic wreathing my blade in DS3, I have to complete-how fucking many invasions? Before my character actually becomes what they were intended to be. Before I can actually start “playing” my build. As such, I’m *disincentivized* to play a dark knight guy, because I can’t be that character *before* I start showing it to other players, let alone *myself*. There should be as few prerequisites as possible to make a basic version of the kind of character you want to be. Starter classes just don’t accomplish this. This is also the reason I *don’t* like how the new amazing weapon classes, and flavors of new spells, and factions, are locked behind the DLC. You can be a basic fire knight in ER super easily, but you can’t be a Messmerfire guy. You can use Caestus on a new character, but it takes too long to allow yourself to actually be the monk (dryleaf arts) you intended to be. Back to the Carian example, I wish there were more ways to progress your character in the DLC instead of both that *and* new various “starting points” for a character. You can get the carian greatsword, and grandeur, ashes in the base game, and getting greatsword before grandeur grants a sense of progression-your basic ability now has an additional complex step. They added carian sovereignty in the DLC, which is a *new* step in progression for a character you had already made in the base game. I don’t think the Fire serpent spell is a new step in progression for a fire knight guy-it comes off more as a new basic ability. Sure, the DLC only really takes a few hours to access from a new char when you intend to rush into it, it’s not locked behind tens of hours. but Mohg and Radahn shouldn’t be prerequisites to access basic things like the gd dryleaf arts. There should have been more things like carian sovereignty, a deep step in progression, than new basic abilities, like fire serpent, Milady, dryleaf arts, etc etc. It is fucking tragic how your character isn’t allowed to have a weapon in the main hand, and a *basic* kick accessible with the offhand, until you beat the *second-to-last* encounter of the DLC (Dane’s kicks). *That’s* egregious. With that framework, my point about Darkmoon blade is, a spell like that is more in line with fire serpent-it’s a new *basic* ability. I shouldn’t have to take an extreme amount of time to unlock something that, for a build, should be more of a guaranteed part of it. When that’s the case, I’m less likely to want to become a character that would use it, despite *really* wanting to use it. However, it might just be the sheer amount of effort taken to receive dark moon blade that made me not want to obtain it, and not the method of obtaining it itself. In Elden Ring, if something like Bloodflame Blade was locked behind invading in the name of Mohg’s Covenant, I might feel that it would be worth somewhere between five and ten *successful* invasions. Something realistic-meaning, in this case, something you can set a goal for by wanting, and expect to accomplish said goal within an hour or two. That’s a long enough time to have earned a basic, but awesome, ability like Bloodflame blade. But not more. Because I don’t want to be stuck as a regular knight working to become a blood knight-I just want to be a blood knight, working to be a better blood knight. This is a huge reason why I prefer ER to most other souls games-you can become who you are meant to be flavor-wise *extremely* quickly, no matter what color of magic you associate with. Gravity, blood, poison, star magic, sword magic, holy, lightning, even frost, even arcane, are all things you can make a reasonable build about within two hours of making a new character. Pretty damn good considering the rest of the game’s length. As for other consumables and effects, and cosmetics like armor, absolutely make them rewards for PvP. Invasions *and* arena. But don’t make build components themselves the *latest possible* rewards, especially when they’re as basic as weapon buffs. If those things must exist, let them be obtainable as quickly as possible. I can see something as specific and badass as Mohg’s Sacred Spear being a later PvP reward-having to work harder for one of the *latest possible* steps of progression for a given character, their factions defining weapon, or whatever. But not fucking dark moon blade lmao. My one last note unrelated to that larger rant, is about the geometry of the arenas. Sure, more complexity would be nice. But more than one floor? The arenas are, obviously, references to the Roman colosseum, first and foremost. Adding too much complexity would hurt their image, and make me less interested, personally. When I want to use the geometry of what’s around me, I invade. When I want to focus on combat, meaning dueling, I want simple, flat ground to do it on, so that as few external variables as possible affect my purposeful fight-about-skill against someone. In my mind, fighting in invasions is more about fight-for-fun/experience/thrills, compared to the arena’s fighting-for-skill/practice. I want simple, flat ground for the latter, and complex geometry for the former. That’s just preference of course; I agree with your reasoning for how complexity would help, otherwise.
Love the idea of item rewards,but im afraid thatll bring alot of player who just want to win and get that reward,using any kind of toxic builds you could imagine(maybe like sleep shotgun)
It feels like Fromsoft just have contempt for anyone trying to engage in online PvP at this point. Invasions, duels, Even hosting with Taunter's Tounge. Trying to fight other players has never been in clunky in any previous Souls entry. For the love of God can they just increase the player count to six and allow 3v3 invasions.
to answer your question i will add someone's comment here: "I’m 300 and never get any 2v2 or 3v3s here lol. Only pvp option is invading…" this is why 125-150-168 is meta. meta means most players to match.
Because builds at lvl 250 are incredibly unbalanced(think fullgoat mages).125 forces players to make sacrifices when crafting a build,is much more balanced,and increases build diversity.
Past level 200 if you know how to spread your points correctly you can become a master of everything character. The PvP is already unbalanced as is. At that level someone can go from trying to hit you with a melee weapon to bullet hell of sorceries, holy frisbees and giant fireballs very quickly lol
The real problem is the fact that the gamemodes suck. There's a complete lack of an unlimited time option, and the very obvious difference in spirit ash powers kinda ruins the spirit gamemode, and leads to everyone just using the exact same spirit instead of the multitude of other spirits that they made the effort of adding only for them to be literally unsuable because of how bad they are
With the amount of jank this game has, I feel like adding valuable items (like ancient dragon stones) to arena duels would incentivize ppl to use only the most broken shit ever to farm these items. That would solve the player base issue, sure, but every other player you are matched with will be running chainsaw / swift slash / instant sleep crossbow / etc. It would probably be fine if the reward is cosmetic only tho
I just think it's kinda crazy that we didn't get a new arena/arenas with the dlc. Not surprising considering the fact that they added absolutely nothing pvp specific but still very disappointing.
I don't get this "unbalanced dlc items" issue. Everyone is still using the guts sword with their lightning buff and BHS. The only thing that's changed is the random best-in-slot helmet they put on for extra stat points. Their damage will shred you at even 60 VIG, so most of my pvp matches are just me waiting for them to do something stupid so I can kill them. I win more often than not, because of this. It's an awful experience, the dlc didn't really impact that for me.
We've been playing VASTLY different games then, the only weapons remaining are the better L2 sticks of the MLGS and BB, sometimes noobveil. Outside of that is nothing but DLC L2
@@leonardo9259 Yeah. i was expecting to see a lot of DLC L2 spam too... All i see is people tacking on new tools to their cookie-cutter builds. Like throwing weapons over knives. I did run into one "i found the sleep crossbow and ore sword build on youtube" but that's it
Miyazaki hired the man who made ds2 pvp the best in the series, only to not allow him to do anything pvp related. Cus "covenants do not fit the world of elden ring" and miyazaki doesn‘t play his own games, as if he‘d know the issues the game has. Shame.
I think there are just too many ingredients in Elden Ring. I'd rather have "R1 Spammers" than the L2 enthusiasts that Elden Ring introduced. It used to be about spacing, if you learned that, you could pretty much use any weapon, now... It's about running around until your opponent has drained their FP or you find an opening to use an L2 of your own. One shot builds are more prevalent, almost needed, and the days of hitting someone with a sword are gone. Also, there is just no incentive to be yourself when it comes to fashion. If you're up against a high skill player rocking goat or solitude with shamshir, etc... You're going to get mopped up, it's that simple. I believe Elden Ring is firmly for PvErs and that PvP was added simply because it was in the other games. It pains me, honestly pains me, because I feel like there was so much potential. Imagine being in a covenant as an invader and you're getting ganked, use some form of finger item, and it tries to prioritize other invaders in your covenant to invade your session as an ally. That would be sweet, obviously just an idea. In DS3, I used the arena to warm up a bit before invasions, but I have never cared for it one way or the other. Invasions are what kept me around, and unfortunately what have driven me away from this game.
the whole multiplayer set-up is bad. simple scaling would fix it. lock people in around 125-150 and lock them in at 150. add stat points to the highest stats to make up the difference. or give the player an option to put points in to specific stats before the match starts. i've been lvl 5 and got summoned for co-op, only to have an invader come in with a white mask and ROB and just kill us. did we get scaled up to match him, or did he get scaled down to match us? No.
The amount of logic used inside of this video is TOO HIGH. FS decided to put barely a thought into PvP, it's flawed, from Co-op, to invasions, to pointless duels. I really like the PvP but there's no way people will keep playing it like this, one of the things that really makes me sad about the PvP state is the absence of incentives to dueling/invasions. Duels are pointless and kinda always similar in a way, invasions often makes you hated because people invaded feels like you're wasting their time and they have no incentive to kill you as well. Why even making PvP if that's the case? Even just the incentives would be a game-changing mechanic into the game.
Casters could've had better gameplay if FromSoft didn't nearly 1:1 Copy/Paste DS3's terrible Caster system. There are numerous ways they've done this: 1. Make Catalysts function like real weapons. Functional R2, L2, L1 (Two-Handed), and Infusions. 2. Make FP recharge like Stamina but give Spells a cooldown. (Ex: FP_Cost ÷ 10 = Seconds needed to recast spell. So if a spell requires 50 FP to cast, they have to wait 5 seconds minimum to recast.) 3. Removing Spell Damage Buff Rings. Scorpions only affect weapon attacks. 4. The slightly improved spells of previous versions could've just been Charged Cast versions of the spell. (Ex: Swift Glintstone -> Glintstone Pebble)
I'd generally not be fond of these ideas. I tried messing around with the Carian sorcery sword, and it's very unaccommodating, purely because of how much extra work it takes to cast spells. The Carian regal scepter on the other hand has a perfect trick with the spin attack that can really punish, but does not get in the way of spell casting by over complicating the controls. Second idea seems, ehh....FP isn't much of an issue at higher levels. It's about the action points and finding an opening to cast one. Cooldowns would just make melee rush down more powerful, and it's already a lot of work to find an opening to get to cast a spell. This would really only have benefit to it IF there was a hotbar to gain access to spells with ease instead of manually scrollable spell slots. Damage buffs for spells are vital because in invasions the openings to cast spells are few and far between. Sometimes taking a ton of work to find even one. Nothing is more satisfying than managing to KO an opponent to instantly have more breathing room. On the other hand, because of the low amount of flasks, failing to KO an opponent in an opening can easily turn it into a battle where supplies run out for an invader while host/buddies has plenty to spare. Magic needs to make its mark when it makes it. Can't make spells easier to tank than they already are. The fourth idea again sounds like it would complicate the controls and mechanics way more. I think the amount of upgrade spells gets seriously overplayed. Especially when sometimes there is a good reason to using lower power ones due to better tracking/casting time/to throw an opponent off. Nothing feels better than hurling out a greater glintstone shard, as it comes out instantly at sufficiently high DEX and can really catch incantation spammers off guard. Comet takes too long to use for this and gives a tiny bit of time to react to it.
@@videocrowsnest5251 How is moving the Cast Spell from R1 to R2 overcomplicating the controls? What hurts the CSS is the confounding lack of ability to change its AoW and that it can't be Infused nor buffed. If Carian Regal Scepter's Ash of War wasn't the sole useful exception in the entirety of Elden Ring for Catalysts, they could've just put Catalysts on the hotbar like Bloodborne did and we'd see little mechanical difference in Caster gameplay. That's how awful Catalyst gameplay is in the game. "At higher levels." Exactly, unless you power level Mind, you're going to be playing as a Spellblade instead of a Caster for half the game. Having a small cooldown window would cut down on same-spell spam. It would encourage mixups utilizing different spells and give greater priority on FP cheaper spells. The biggest complaints against Casters are again spell spam and their lack of interactivity with encounters. General Damage Buff Rings are just a damage tax against Casters. By having these Rings, it's basically saying players have a 4% and 8% innate spell damage debuff unless you wear those Rings. NO ONE liked the Ring of Blades damage tax against Martial builds in DS2, but somehow it always gets a pass when it's applied against Casters. Condensing the spells would clean up the spell list of near identical spells and every spell that's condensed would benefit from effects that boost Charging spells. As a Caster main since DS1, playing as a Pure Caster in Elden Ring is awful during the early levels, though it's better at it than DS3. The entire game just pushes for Casters to play as Spellblades instead as that's where most of the magic support went, especially with the lack of gameplay improvements for Catalysts.
Easy fix.. delete swift slash.... Hard fix? Make it like ds3 with 6 players and 3v3 2v4 and adding some of the boss rooms into the arena map rotation and then add new ones from there.. covenants would be cool.. a reason to pvp again besides just abusing the blue system to help gank one red at a time is boring.. and invading is a slog unless you sweat or abuse one shots and backhand blades or thorn spells to cheese everything... I'm all for including casuals and making the game more accessible.. but at what cost?? I don't think this was the right route. I hope ds3 gets a remaster at this point, lol. Edit: Fromsoft and Bandai need to take some notes from the modders that helped make archthrones and created the invade and be summoned near AND far feature. Look at seamless co-op and give console players that with crossplay, maybe? That would be insane for some final updates before moving on to other projects.
Pvp is just a mini game in elden ring. There is no incentive. Very little initiative. The devs could care less for it. They couldnt even make sure taunters tounge couldn't be turned on an off. Elden ring is just a watered down dark souls for the mainstream masses who couldn't even bother to get gud. Spirit ashes and such. The mainstream didnt even get to exprience covenants and covenant based PVP.
Winning in Arenas should provide Ancient Smithing Stones or other limited-per-run consumables. It would incentivize more casual players (who don't use CE of course) to participate more. Cosmetic rewards like in DS2 would be great too, and super easy to implement.
I want infinite larval tears so badly. I hate playing through the game again just to try a new build and the fact that you only get 10 character slots only adds to the insanity of how rigid this game can be for no good reason.
Starlight shards, Arteria leaves, Aeonian butterflies, st Trina Lily, larval tears, need i go on?
Larvar Tears and u solve most of your issues
I would love having rewards based on what great rune you're wearing, so unfarmables suddenly become available again.
@@jaysuede2627miyazaki doesn’t want covenants, that’d be a great alternative
remember when ds2 gave you a unique aura if you climbed high enough in the pvp arenas? it was small, but it served as a badge of pride and that was enough. it don't need to be that complicated
Elden Ring has that kinda. To the left of the health bar that icon glows bright if you are the Supreme Combatant enough times.
I miss my red & white aura bring it back!
It's funny how someone in-lore probably had a similar rant when the arena fell out of favour after Godfrey's era.
I think you should get this video translated to Japanese and sent to Bandai Namco as feedback. That would massively increase the chance Fromsoft could get the message.
Fromsoft knows that they don't care at all about invasions, duels, and overall PvP. It's very clear that they don't test anything in PvP scenarios before release and it takes constant hassling to get anything "balanced". Even if you went through the trouble of handing Miyazaki himself gold plates containing constructive feedback regarding PvP in Elden Ring nothing would change.
It took a game that he wasn't involved with (Dark Souls 2) for PvP and overall player interactivity to be at its prime.
@@DropoutJerome if FromSoft didn't care about PvP, they wouldn't have released so many updates that only target PvP changes, go outside and touch grass
@@Void-Knull “go outside and touch grass” says the butt hurt fanboy who can’t believe someone dissed their game dev lord and savior
@@DropoutJerome There was literally a japanese translated video given to bandai, forwarded to fromsoft, that ended up being copied word for word in the next patch notes.
They DO care about the game, they DO care about pvp. But I don't think a single person at Fromsoft actually speaks english.
JeeNine made that Japanese translation video to software and I can confirm they did see it and made changes according to the video so I highly recommend the community in general
They also need to fix invasions, 6 player limit and map option to disable/enable invasion areas. Shouldn't be so difficult.
I agree
I agree
Absolutely add rewards: larval tears, ancient dragon stones, lost ashes of war, anything that is finite during one playthrough.
They could even reward you with items that are specific to certain side quest outcomes: I helped Millicent against her sisters, now I can kill 10 folks in the arena to get her Prosthesis Talisman (or something like that).
Also add arenas that differ from ‘flat circle’, like the dragon ruins arena from DS3 where you could plan ambushes around corners.
Just something to make us want to use the colosseum and a way to make two matches different and unique from each other.
Larval tears would be the absolute best I think. I’m quite hesitant to respec due to their scarcity, and despite being a collector, I just never went after spells because I knew I would never add any stats into a casting build. If there was a way to earn larval tears I would be much more willing to try a caster build from time to time, which then increases my player retention for fromsoft, win-win
Honestly it would just end up with super toxic players more often for the items
2v2 and 3v3 are dead. Duels are stupid, for me mostly because of the arena. Yeah let's give players a circle the size of a fucking stadium. There's no pressure, no corners. People run away, play so passive it makes me fucking sick. Arenas for duels need to be smaller and rectangular
Fr. And make it hard it get max rank, I was able to get max on a new character in a single sitting. Rank being shown in invasions would also be nice.
@@bullymcdouble6048rank isn’t shown in invasions? I don’t duel at all but I thought ds3 showed your rank in invasions? Smh
@@dankbudski I mean, it did show rank in ds3 but that's kinda irrelevant tbh, being good in duels does not 100% mean you are also good in invasions.
Undead Burg in DS1 was the perfect size and shape
@@bullymcdouble6048nah thats cap unless you duped runes or cheated them in on pc just farming invader runes would still take a few weeks
I lierally play souls games for the pvp unironically. I love this.
Your videos feel nostalgic in a way. They sort of remind me of the days when I'd listen to martyrsbrigade99 commentary about PvP while doin some highspeed invasions in the forest.
Those were the days. I’ll take roll back stabs and Havel moms over ashes of war any day.
It doesn’t help the matchmaking system is bad, if people don’t have the SAME exact settings they won’t get paired up, IE- someone chooses any arena and the other player only wants to play in the calid coliseum, they won’t get matched up, and I’m pretty sure if you have a password set for 2v2’s you can only face other players with a password set for 2v2 I think they could easily work around this and make it so more players can reach each other
That's why you always chose the all option that way you'll always be matched up with someone regardless of their choice.
@@WokeandProud what I’m saying is it doesn’t work like that, they only match make with other players who have the “any” option selected
If this is true it's beyond stupid
If they just moved the statue to the roundtable basement, at least you could test out your weapons and stuff while you were waiting instead of just jumping on and off the table. That of course would only solve one of these problems, but it would be so easy to do.
As a pure sorcery caster: Worth noting, magic doesn't also get much out of the open sandpit arena design. Most 1v1 matches are kiting matches, with a melee player just chasing you down and trying to find openings to cast spells. It's frankly annoying to not have any terrain to use to shake em. Never tried a group match cause matchmaking woes.
I don't think it's unfair for PvP to have rewards you can earn by doing pvp. The game already has a "you don't get to have your cake and eat it too" logic to how invasions work. Players getting things for doing things they enjoy sounds like a hoot. Players who don't enjoy it don't need to bother with that. It only becomes unfair if one has a deep factionalism based mentality and wants to have sides in the community that try to kill each other's game modes to establish total opinion dominance. Rather than seeing it as a "they got something, and we didn't!", I think to such a hypothetical person it's worth pointing out the very issue is they have turned it into "Us Vs Them" to begin with. Or deals in hyperbolic absolutes where something they don't much care for must also to boot be a complete, utter, irredeemable waste of time so they can happily ignore it completely without ever feeling like giving it a spin.
Fair points all around. For me, the magic issue sort of goes in both directions. Casters would benefit from obstacles and multiple floors when they otherwise have no way to protect themselves from melee rushes like in a duel. On the other hand, melee players would benefit from the same thing in team matches where the caster is free to spam away and there's nowhere to take cover. In both cases, I think better arenas are an improvement.
And yeah, I understand completely what you're talking about with the factional mentalities because I'm certainly guilty of factionalism as a primarily PVP player when I get comment after comment from people who just want PVP out of the game entirely. Really would like to see more community unity around the one series that actually has its systems intertwined in an interesting way.
Lmao a caster complaining.
@@emotionaljonxvx I think, as has become very apparent lately, Elden Ring is suffering from a deep-rooted Fandom purity culture. Much like just about every other Fandom.
Rather than multiple, differing takes and opinions all being as valid (due to all being opinions), Fandom purity culture asserts there can only be one "correct" way of interpreting or feeling about something. Per this thinking, all others are wrong and one has to be crazy to think so. As nobody wants to be deemed as the crazy wierdos of the fandom, it creates a nasty environment where many will try to push to create that "one true way" to then have control to defy what a piece of work is as per their own tastes.
This is why I brought up the point about total opinion dominance. Fandom purity culture (ever present and pretty much everywhere) has created a strong "Us Vs Them" mindset. It's thus part of a bigger problem that goes beyond Elden Ring.
The "get pvp out!" mindset has a lot of thoughts that go unsaid. One of them I would pressure is the idea if pvp gets anything, then it somehow becomes a threat to their way of enjoying the game. If it gets even more, it might just mean they become the random weirdos of the fandom due to that irksome "One true way" thinking. These things thus get put on pedestals, turned into representative totems of points, and battlefields for opinion dominance, which then goes into viewing anyone who does not agree with one as a hostile or threat.
All that to say - the issue is needlessly complicated by how all fandoms - Elden ring included - are choosing to behave. Where non-conforming opinions or takes are treated as the work of a hostile agent or enemy out to ruin the fun of things. Solidified by a general lack of trust towards anyone who says anything. And when distrust and assumed hostility is the basis of the interaction, it's incredibly hard to get someone to listen to even a single word being said. No matter what olive branches or gestures of good faith are given.
Even worse, many of these things are so internalized and normalized, many people don't even realize when they are partaking in purity culture nonsense. Making them incapable of even explaining why they act they way they are. An honest conversation in good faith for some reason has become the ultimate poisoned well. And everyone suffers for it.
@@videocrowsnest5251 Eww, coward mage 🤮 Prob with shit net
Problem is that ill just get plusidusax roared behind cover anyway. With so many powerful spells, rewards would mean mages will just spam harder to win. Same with swift slash or anything. Honor goes out the window
I think they should just make all weapons scale to the same level and all players scale to the bottom of a bracket.. so if it’s 100-150… everyone scales down to 100 to even it out and all weapon levels are all the same so it’s more about skill and anyone can match up with anyone
Once again, the PvP gamemodes are totally screwed over by some dumb design choice that anyone that has ever played one single PvP match would've noticed. They do not care.
I think one of two things might happen in the future of souls. Either they go back to smaller games so that they dont have to allocate an unreasonable ammpunt of time and resources to making a huge open world; giving them the oportunity to fine tune their multiplayer and perfect the truly unique blend of PvE and PvP.
Or, they separate them entirely. They fully commit to disregarding multiplayet, focus on PvE and if we are lucky they release a PvP focused game somewhere along the line.
Larvar Tears should be added as a rewards for Arenas/Invasion. to allow for more character building and theory crafting. and give more initiative for PVP and replayability of your game.
Funnily enough, DS2 was the game that gave the most focus to PVP (outside of the cursed soul memory system). But, let's be honest, the fact you can have a 3v3 in the Arena (but not in Invasions) is something else. To add to that, why did they have to get rid of the Purples from DS3? They were so fun. Some choices made in Elden Ring's design are head scratchers for sure.
Me personally I just want the netcode to be better but that’s like asking for the dinosaurs to come back
only ping filter can fix that problem. people are also laggy on psn and seamless.
it deserves Dark Souls 3 PvP invasion with the mad phantom
Death coven - summoned to protect those that walk in death near large mass graveyards
Rot Coven - summoned to bathe tarnished in scarlet rot, summoned in areas like Aeonian swamp, grand cloister, lower section of the haligtree
Nokron/siofra invaders - invade in the starry underground sections.
Just a few off the top of my head covens that would EASILY fit into lore
Nomad (frenzy) coven - summoned in subterranean shunning grounds, abyssal woods, frenzied flame village,
@@SpruceZTcrazy how us fanboys can come up with content in a matter of hours
Bro the demigods are right there, all with their own legacy dungeon
Some of the most fun I've had with Souls PvP was with the Remastest mod for Dark Souls 1. Those ported-over Halo maps played surprisingly well with all the verticality, obstacles and chokepoints to fight in.
Its sad Duel Arena is like this not to say its bad but its just bland this makes DS3 D.A looks better, hearing the co-director Yui Tanimura (Director of DS2) made me gave hope of PVP's future since DS2 pvp was actually genuinely good.
Though it is only 3 arenas (3 more if you count the Blue Sentinels) but each of those Arenas has great impact to the gameplay lets start with the "Brotherhood of Blood" arena:
Arena 1 (a flat large circular stage with wooden scaffolding in the center with stair way):
- basic well-rounded arena for all classes/builds
Arena 2 (Labyrinthine arena with two levels. There are stairs in the corners of the arena which lead to the second level)
- bizzare terrain but greatly known for its bridge pillars for recovery and anti pressure and at the top or 2nd floor known greatly for small spacing fights
Arena 2 (A relatively long bridge that connects one side to another. Falling off the bridge will result in death)
- THE BRIDGE OF DEATH
"Blue Sentinel" arena
Arena 1 (A two-level open square stage with statues in the middle like the pillars in Caelid arena)
- nothing more say well-rounded as usual
Arena 2 (A maze of small intersecting rooms, stairs at each corner allow you to go up on the narrow walls)
- pretty much the same arena Labyrinthine arena but wider and 2nd floor is way more up
Arena 3 (A narrow cross-shaped plaform high over water. Falling off the edge will result in death)
- STAY AWAY FROM THE WATER great arena for its small spacing fights
You know whats more great in Arena PvP? AURAS which has this flaming glowing effect around the player the greatest flex you could ever show to someone in PVP shows that its a High ranking player.
There are 2 types: normal Aura acquiring 50 wins and second (which is the final) acquiring 150 wins gives you an Aura with white rimlight like a neon effect.
Seeing players with Auras tells you to be ready or locked in like in a fighting game when reaching a promotion rank.
Hope they add something cause if this is the end then "oh well"
CTF mode would slap
Hot take that is very biased - arenas/ duels don’t matter and nothing should balanced around it. Instead it should all be downstream of invasions.
Reason being, this isn’t a competitive fighting game, there are those games but other games don’t have invasions. Arena is still nice for testing or messing around but honestly every time I hear dedicated duelists opinions I just want to tell them to play street fighter or mortal kombat
Hey, I hear ya. The idea of "competitive" or "ranked" multiplayer in a game this inconsistent is certainly a little confusing.
For me, I want it to be basically what Halo 3 Social Slayer / CTF was back in the day. No real need for rankings, just game modes where you fight in groups beyond the scope of the finite campaign. A place for dedicated PVP when you can't find someone to invade. For players to just play on repeat forever.
No need to sweat like a meta-duelist or employ hit-and-run tactics just to stay alive. A fight for fighting's sake, with everyone of all skill levels encouraged to participate.
But I dream...
@@emotionaljonxvx that’s totally fair. Great video btw.
And maybe I phrased my comment poorly, i don’t hate duelists or anything even competitive players, I just feel like they want to put a square peg in a circle hole. Also I genuinely think a lot of them would enjoy their time more by playing a fighting game.
3v3s are a lot of fun every now and then imo, and even if I didn’t think that I don’t want them to remove the arena or anything. In a perfect world we could all have all the mechanics for all of these things, but in reality that isn’t going to happen and I see every step towards focusing on arena as a step away from focusing on invasions. Which is maybe not true but it is how I see it
@@emotionaljonxvx and like you said, non competitive arena is very different from competitive but I do kinda reduce them to be the same thing. Which isn’t really fair
@@James_Rustled I understand completely. Every issue I raise that doesn't directly relate to giving me back 3v3 in invasions feels arbitrary in one way or another. It's so hard to cope with a game that has completely removed practically everything that made the system fun in the first place.
And we stick around because there isn't anywhere else to go. Where else can I make my own character with this sort of build diversity and combat while also having a robust and interesting single player experience? The competition just isn't there and FromSoft has fickle interests.
I generally agree with you when it comes to invasions, they do absolutely need to have the focus, but telling souls PvPers to play other games is incredibly disingenuous and completely missing the point. If they wanted to play a traditional fighting game they'd be doing that, you don't need to tell them.
I'm especially puzzled whenever I see DmC fans telling PvP heads to play a Character Action Game instead and I'm like:
Have you actually ever played a Souls Game? Have you tried the PvP? Don't think so tbh, because in no way a person with a functioning brain would think an Action RPG and a Character Action game are even remotely comparable gameplay wise.
bro you make good points, i hope the devs listen to your speeches.
The game is what it is. We need to hope the next time they make a souls-like title they have a design philosophy that doesn't allow the most ridiculous weapons or matchmaking.
How as a community can we work to make 3v3s more common? I never tried the arena much before the expansion, but have been having fun doing the united combat or 2v2s/3v3s. Problem is, while 2v2s are fun they can easily become steamrolls. While 3v3s feel like they have a lot more engaging back-and-forth. Except it's near impossible to queue into a 3v3. Hard agree on what you said about "partial teams" and needing to match with non-password players. But I feel like there's something we could try as a community, like somehow having specific times to go online for 3v3s or something like that.
Increase player cap to 6 so we can host our own fucking fight clubs!
On the talk of covenants I, while I feel it's easy to implement them, I also believe there's a way to add in a reward system for people who do coop and invasions. Different factions like furled fingers, hunters, bloody fingers and recusants can each get their own rewards for completing a multi-player session in exchange for new rewards. The recent Lords of the Fallen game had something similar, and I feel like elden ring could benefit from something like that
Gotta hand it to the pvp crowd for being the only one for complaining about having new weapons and ashes added into the game.
invaders are reason why things getting nerfed / buffed. it's not fun for pvers that invader uses something broken and wipes 3 ppl. fromsoft cares more of pver experience. also it's not fun to fight someone who uses glitches and crazy brainless stuff.
@@lukaogadze5071 Of course they care more for pvers, thats the majority of the playerbase lol. Pvp has always been a feature but never the main point of the game. Twinking is an issue you arent wrong, but to complain about having more things to try and use because of that is kinda bizzare.
I queued up on a lvl 90 character I used to invade in leyndell about a month after colloseums released. It took about 40 minutes to find a match and when I finally got into the arena, I got dced 10 seconds into the fight. Never interacted with the colloseum again, sticking with invasions, more fun anyway.
this channel is bringing the well deserved pvp critiques I've been looking for. keep it up!
I agree with everything you've said. The only thing is I don't think the lack of pvp features is a design decision against those features, I believe the company is just so enveloped with development of the DLC and other games that they don't bother focusing on pvp. Even Shadow of the Erd Tree which is fantastic felt like the map was designed with a few more years of development in mind, but I think the company is shifting away from Elden Ring and Souls games for newer and fresher projects.
One of the bigger reasons why I never participated in the Arena's is because I didn't want to wait for minutes on end to get a duel going. I tried a couple of times, and the wait to find a match out weigh my interest to join one. A level bracket might be the answer to fix that. Either way, waiting around and doing nothing at the Round Table Hold isn't great. I was hoping they would of gave us an item that would allow us to enter an arena from anywhere in the world, similar to the invaders and coop fingers. It's incredible how outdated Fromsoft is where it comes to multiplayer and seeing the lost potential just upsets me. Like, World of Warcraft - a game that has been out for 20 years for example, has a level bracket for arenas and pvp content, and allows you to enter said pvp content from anywhere in the world. So, I just invade instead. I prefer invasions over arena's anyways because I love the chaos. But still, would be nice to have rewards for that too. Hopefully Fromsoft does something to address the issues, but I don't have much hope for it
Are you way over lvl 150? Make a 125 or 150 character. I'm at 150 and never wait more than like 15 seconds.
Doesn't seem fun to play PVP at 200+, because you run into stuff like infinite mana 80 int mages with medium roll heavy armor, 2000 hp, and 100 poise etc. Unique builds don't even matter at that point.
I did see a post or two on Reddit mentioning that a PvE mode for the Colosseum selections would make for a fun replayable piece of content if it were ever added, slap in those rewards you mentioned and that'd be good for people without online or just wanting more casual battles against NPC Tarnished brandishing random Builds/Spirit Ashes.
Something close enough to an infinitely replayable loop like the Chalice Dungeons from Bloodborne would be very nice in a game like Elden Ring.
I think fromsoft just really needs to sit down and reevaluate their aproach to multiplayer across the board.
For example, the match making itself. Segmenting the player base across 714 levels is genuinely unhinged. It works for no one.
It makes it impossible to balance, it makes it harder for people to match, its a broken sistem. Lower the level cap. Make 150 max level. Literally everyone wins. Even PvErs win. Scadoodoo wouldnt be necesary if the max level was reasonable.
Even if the way they aproach multiplayer is still pretty uncharted territory, ER has taken a step back in pretty much every single way.
Its wild that a game that they made more than 10 years ago has more effort and thought put into its multiplayer mechanics than a brand new game.
It seems like they dont learn from the success and failures from their previous work on multiplayer. It honestly seems like they didnt think at all about multiplayer. Just slap the most barebones things that are expected in a FS multiplayer.
Its like they dont want to do it. Like they feel obligated to do it because the most hardcore part of their audience loves it, but theres no passion or effort put into it.
Preach it! 🙏🏻 This and you deserve more views bro
definitely not an important thing to add, but i think it would be cool to have a colosseum mode that gives you a selection of specific character builds to choose from (made by the devs), and then fight other players that are selecting from the same pool, with rewards being gear from the build you used
it would allow some once-per-playthrough weapons or rarely dropped armors to be more readily available, as well as the actual mode being easy to balance in comparison to the normal colosseum
That would take more creative processes for PVP. Something from has Cleary refused. I love the idea, they just won't do it.
This is Sparta !!!no cover needed, tho the spell spamming and backhand swift slash does frustrate me at times , I hope they patch certain hit boxes and either slightly weaken certain spam spells or extend there casting time forcing for more strategy than cheese
The dlc literally killed pvp. They literally buffed poise when it was in a good spot with 1.10 the day before the dlc so now we got a bunch if heavy ass walls trading bonks with no braincells. Im not even going to het into all the broken shit like swift slash , heal from afar , blind spot , sword of damn nation shitty hit box, a MADNESS FUCKING TORCH , fuck this game is a joke now.
The reward should be silver tears.
Yeah, infinite larval tears, ancient smithing stones, anything that's otherwise finite in a playthrough that really shouldn't be.
DS2 did it best, but I forgot you can't say anything good about DS2 in this community😂@@emotionaljonxvx
@@emotionaljonxvx and Bell bearings for crafting materials
@@wazaaup4993 I love DS2 and it had lots of great ideas. I think people are coming around these days.
@@wazaaup4993 ds2 did more right than wrong when it came to online, it suffered from bad execution and riding the high of ds1. Had the game been delayed to a ps4/xbone release at minimum it would be better received.
You said there arent brackets, but there are. X above x below. Upgrade level balancing helps, but honesltly has it ever been a big deal if you level health and actually use dps rings?
Sorry, I just meant set brackets that are not host dependent. I'd like to be able to find matchmaking at level 50 and under but with the current system, it's pretty much impossible.
Glad I saw this video, I was just on DS2 & DS3 earlier dabbling in the colosseums and had the exact same thoughts.
I still haven’t played in the arenas, after awhile on PS5 the original dueling grounds became active again and I still duel there.
Thank you for trying, pvp is a really big part of these games for me, and I really would like a better experience.
I wish there was a special arena mode that took place in a large field (like the boss arena for Gaius) and forced every player on horseback, this could give a purpose to equipment like the lance talisman, certain spirit summons like the Leyndell Solider Ashes (spear soldiers have a move that can knock you off your horse) or the Spirit Raisins which gives torrent a boost attack. With the seamless co op mod it already shows that the engine can handle other players on horseback so I don't understand what was the point of adding the Lance Talisman or Raisins if torrent is only going to be used for traversal and certain bosses.
wait hold on, i appreciate the message but... 2:40 ????
the issue of the coliseums is that they are MASSIVE circular arenas, in any actual competitive context(ds3 old wolf arena, er's console tournament stormveil arena, er's den maps seaside arena, ec), arenas are not even 1/4th of the coliseum size, because ANY ranged build can just run away and keep spamming tracking projecties, slowly but surely wittling down any opponent if the range-weapon user wanted to, let alone the chance of regenerating throughout.
you're preaching to the choir man. A lot of possibilities with elden ring, many of them unfulfilled. I love this game but sad that they are abandoning it unfinished, so to speak
I had a feeling they gonna drop the support. And left the game broken lmfao more broken than old souls which is ironic...
Considering they just dropped the DLC and have made statements about extending the life-span of Elden Ring because it sold so well, I wouldn't call it just yet. The time of the one who waits is long (Finnish proverb), but the DLC is brand fresh and has already sold over five million copies. The base game has sold over 25 million copies. They would be complete and utter fools to not bank on that and keep support going. The DLC is less than a month old.
That ends the more factual part of my comment. This one is neither here nor there (so salt shaker warning is in effect), but I also heard some murmurs about From not being too happy about the state of pvp and as per rumor being in contact with the Elden ring Fexalife wiki people to see about getting some solutions in.
@@videocrowsnest5251I want to believe this, but I think the last part is kinda cope. TT is something that can be fixed in minutes and they haven’t, meaning that they’re fine with it. I wouldn’t lose complete hope tho.
It's certainly a possibility but I'd like to think they're open to making community-focused adjustments. They certainly have some interest in the systems as a whole but I think so much of their development time went into all the newer, shinier things like the open world, whereas PVP and other long-term functions fell to the wayside.
In any case, they could make meaningful adjustments if they had a mind to and I'm hoping they follow through.
@@videocrowsnest5251 i just can't when the performance issue, bugs and glitches still here 2 years later
@@videocrowsnest5251You see thats the problem they're going to fexalife to fix pvp you might as well just go to the main subreddit it would be about just as effective.
That dude with the axe was scary, insane damage.
The PvP is still trash.
Came back to try it out after the DLC dropped.
Even in the 1v1 arena, people will attack you immediately. Won’t let you buff or bow or anything.
80% of people are using the same 3 meta builds they saw online and are sweating their balls off.
Healing flasks by default are disabled in the 1v1 arena but like half the people I play against if they start losing will just endlessly run away until they can heal with an incantation and then go back to trying to cheese you with Ash of war spam.
No technique, no skill.
Just mash L2 and see who’s AoW does more damage or who has hyperarmor and who doesn’t.
I miss DS2 iron keep and DS3 pvp fight clubs. Rip.
I would golf swing dudes of that bridge in DS2 all day.
13:00 there are already npc invaders that drop cool items so than can maybe add a few arena matches against npc´s for the rewards and than some regular items and consumables for the actual pvp so that palyer can learn how the arena works but the great rewards are not behind pvp exclusiv.
I will say that if the Elden Ring Colosseums had added just a gallows with stairs leading to the top in the center of the arena for one of the options, YES literally like Dark Souls 2 Blood Duelist Arena(it's the best arena imo), then I would be playing Elden Ring PvP instead of just putting my sign down for Co-Op and getting millions of runes I will never spend. The arena makes more sense for what I want, which is duels and team fights, but just like you said in the first two or three minutes, I simply do not want to engage unfortunately. It's not a good replacement or even consolation for missing out on six players invasions like in Dark Souls 3, it's just a downgrade because of the melting pot of ideas they had and which ones they discarded but should not have.
You both got violated at 4:00, that was wild haha.
I remember trying arena and never getting a match in ER then proceeded to never try it again. I prefer invasions, but the invasions are just ganks. PvP is, as Sir Gideon would say a "sad state of affairs."
If you think about it, Fromsoft is an outer god and they totally abandoned us PvPers haha.
I wish there was more incentive to level up more. I don’t want to max my stats to make me shot anyone, I’d rather have a fight than try to 1-2 hit. Would be awesome to See more varieties of builds. Maybe an area that allows 4-5 players per side would be cool too. Like in the DLC area, taunters tongue is on if you party with anyone and they same amount of players can invade as what’s in your party. And if a hunter comes in, another invader can too
I guess this take is hot and wrong, but I personally feel the lack of rewards for winning, as you state, is very intentional. Winning in itself is enough of a reward for most to be running whatever is overtuned this patch, and as someone who's very new and enjoys the roleplay aspects plus seeing a wide variety of weapons I'd just love the ancient smithing stones as much as I'd hate only smithscript weapons should support cycle end prior to the perpetual balance adjustments.
What I'm saying is I play solo should I still download seamless coop
I approve this message!
I’m gonna stop you right there chief. You know why the Arena is just a flat circle and not a twisty turney labyrinth or whatever? Because people; the overwhelming majority, wanted it that way.
No one used the DS1 arena because of that. People gravitated to Brotherhood of Blood over Blue Sentinels arenas because they had the flat circle, and as soon as DS3 gave us the Irithyl flat circle arena, everyone chose that over the Lordran one.
Why?
Because fighting game enthusiasts don’t like gimmicks.
No one chooses poké-floats for a duel. They choose the small platform with no stage hazards.
Would I enjoy an Arena with swinging pendulums like Sens fortress? Yes. I would also enjoy a 6 player free for all where we can all use Spirit Summons- and we have that, but no one uses it because “gimmicks”.
It’s the reason why the flat circular arena in Liurnia was chosen by the community for fight clubs.
The reason why no one’s using Arena right now is because the PvP itself feels like a gimmick. Big flashy Ashes of War, everything destroying your health in one go or getting stunlocked, metas debilitating build variety.
Wtf are you talking about,pretty much every pvper I know wants small,rectangular arenas for 1v1.Also,every pvp content creator is asking for smaller arenas.
i really liked the arenas of ds2, they were not similar to eachother, and some of them required enviroment awareness, because you could fall to your death.
for not saying by participating in the arenas, they would reward you with items.
probably the worst part of them, were that they didn't have any matchimaking, so you could encounter a lv 10 player or a max player, that's one of the reason why the meta of that game was lv 150.
I've never seen someone so bad at souls PvP demand so much from it.
There is a very large difference between Arena PvP/Duels and Invasions. Invasions are meant to be sporatic and have a level of randomness to it due to the environment. The Grace duels in Raya Lucaria proves this point. No one who seriously duels want verticality, remember how angry the community was with the poor showing that the DS3 arena maps were until they added Pontif's backyard as a (mostly) flat circle. As someone who has engaged with arena PvP since DS2 I am completely fine with how the arenas work in ER. The incentives are a larger problem that is fundamental to the game, there isn't much incentive for anything due to the open world design being the core focus of the game, the arena can't offer anything that would dimish the importance of exploration without it dumbing down the game experience for PvE, which is the main focus for the game. An example I can give is Invasions awarding Rune Arcs, whenever I make a new character I spend the first 2-3 hours doing nothing but invading to stock up on Rune Arc and levels which trivalized the experience/diminishes the risk/reward factor of using a consumable that is lost on death.
The only realistic incentive I can see be added to the arena and to extension, invasions, is the DS2 style cosmetic changes, Radiant phantom glows, maybe a title to go along with the invasion name like the NPCs have. PvP is and always has been a 2nd thought in Fromsoft games, even more so in ER where it is limited in the way that it is, so the expect them to do anything meaningful with it is a recipe for disappointment.
So I think the fundamental difference here is that what I'm advocating for isn't dueling. Dueling is a thing the arena facilitates well enough. I want the arena to capture a wider scope of PVP, where players can compete without the highest skill level or most meta builds. To entertain modes that actually add some variety to the experience that wouldn't be just for the most dedicated PVPers.
But hey, I'm bad at PVP.
They added the colisseum a while after the base game released, maybe there is hope for them addressing pvp in a few months? It's really disappointing though.
I just want better maps with more cover against spell and AOW spam something to give me and others an incentive to play modes beyond one on one battles.
Great video, hopefully someone at Fromsoft sees this
Elden Ring deserves a better [everything PVP related]
Why, it’s clearly not the focus for this title
The real thing we should do is submit support tickets to Bandai Namco until something happens for us. They have casualized the game for the masses. We aren’t asking for a lot in terms of changes just something geared towards us. Please people go submit support tickets, they’ll have to listen eventually
Ds3 round plaza pick rate
Played Elden Ring about 700 hours. Probably spent a grand total of 1 hour in the arenas.
When I want to duel I just find a cool looking place in the world, pop my taunters tongue and go toe to toe with some invaders.
I agree with everything you say. I just like millions of others miss the covenants and the incentive in participating in "modes" throughout the game. But I had a crazy thought. Maybe...from soft doesn't want to incorporate these into the game so darksouls 3 can still strive seeing as elden ring is open world and souls games are far linear? 🤔
Curious to know if that's accurate or not. I hate the idea of from soft ignoring these issues to "cater" to everyone because at the end of the day when you play any souls game, you either "git gud" or "you die" 🤣
Talk about a can of worms…
Anyhow, the only thing I don’t like is locking spells and weapons behind PvP (or at least, too much of it). My mind goes to the dark moon blade spell. I prefer having a character be one character, one build progression, per game. No changing partway through. In my mind, there’s no “you HAVE to level Dex, THEN you can level Int”-you can just be a Carian knight super easily, right off the rip. I don’t have to pretend for the first third of the game that my character is someone they aren’t.
So, DS3, say I start up wanting to be a dark knight build, using a weapon that isn’t explicitly just a dark weapon. The same way you can still be a Carian knight, without requiring a specific thing like the Carian Knight sword-you can be like “yeah, this is my carian build”, while having a claymore be your main thing. You can accomplish this in more than one way-changing the ash to something magic, changing the infusion itself to be magic, or using the scholar’s armament spell. This makes *the weapon* fit the build. No prerequisites required. You can change the claymore, or whatever, in ER to fit *any* possible idea for a build, super quickly. You can make your character much more obviously what they’re meant to be, much more quickly.
If I want to be a dark guy with the awesome purple color of magic wreathing my blade in DS3, I have to complete-how fucking many invasions? Before my character actually becomes what they were intended to be. Before I can actually start “playing” my build.
As such, I’m *disincentivized* to play a dark knight guy, because I can’t be that character *before* I start showing it to other players, let alone *myself*. There should be as few prerequisites as possible to make a basic version of the kind of character you want to be. Starter classes just don’t accomplish this.
This is also the reason I *don’t* like how the new amazing weapon classes, and flavors of new spells, and factions, are locked behind the DLC. You can be a basic fire knight in ER super easily, but you can’t be a Messmerfire guy. You can use Caestus on a new character, but it takes too long to allow yourself to actually be the monk (dryleaf arts) you intended to be. Back to the Carian example, I wish there were more ways to progress your character in the DLC instead of both that *and* new various “starting points” for a character. You can get the carian greatsword, and grandeur, ashes in the base game, and getting greatsword before grandeur grants a sense of progression-your basic ability now has an additional complex step. They added carian sovereignty in the DLC, which is a *new* step in progression for a character you had already made in the base game. I don’t think the Fire serpent spell is a new step in progression for a fire knight guy-it comes off more as a new basic ability. Sure, the DLC only really takes a few hours to access from a new char when you intend to rush into it, it’s not locked behind tens of hours. but Mohg and Radahn shouldn’t be prerequisites to access basic things like the gd dryleaf arts.
There should have been more things like carian sovereignty, a deep step in progression, than new basic abilities, like fire serpent, Milady, dryleaf arts, etc etc. It is fucking tragic how your character isn’t allowed to have a weapon in the main hand, and a *basic* kick accessible with the offhand, until you beat the *second-to-last* encounter of the DLC (Dane’s kicks). *That’s* egregious.
With that framework, my point about Darkmoon blade is, a spell like that is more in line with fire serpent-it’s a new *basic* ability. I shouldn’t have to take an extreme amount of time to unlock something that, for a build, should be more of a guaranteed part of it. When that’s the case, I’m less likely to want to become a character that would use it, despite *really* wanting to use it.
However, it might just be the sheer amount of effort taken to receive dark moon blade that made me not want to obtain it, and not the method of obtaining it itself. In Elden Ring, if something like Bloodflame Blade was locked behind invading in the name of Mohg’s Covenant, I might feel that it would be worth somewhere between five and ten *successful* invasions. Something realistic-meaning, in this case, something you can set a goal for by wanting, and expect to accomplish said goal within an hour or two. That’s a long enough time to have earned a basic, but awesome, ability like Bloodflame blade. But not more. Because I don’t want to be stuck as a regular knight working to become a blood knight-I just want to be a blood knight, working to be a better blood knight. This is a huge reason why I prefer ER to most other souls games-you can become who you are meant to be flavor-wise *extremely* quickly, no matter what color of magic you associate with. Gravity, blood, poison, star magic, sword magic, holy, lightning, even frost, even arcane, are all things you can make a reasonable build about within two hours of making a new character. Pretty damn good considering the rest of the game’s length.
As for other consumables and effects, and cosmetics like armor, absolutely make them rewards for PvP. Invasions *and* arena. But don’t make build components themselves the *latest possible* rewards, especially when they’re as basic as weapon buffs. If those things must exist, let them be obtainable as quickly as possible. I can see something as specific and badass as Mohg’s Sacred Spear being a later PvP reward-having to work harder for one of the *latest possible* steps of progression for a given character, their factions defining weapon, or whatever. But not fucking dark moon blade lmao.
My one last note unrelated to that larger rant, is about the geometry of the arenas. Sure, more complexity would be nice. But more than one floor? The arenas are, obviously, references to the Roman colosseum, first and foremost. Adding too much complexity would hurt their image, and make me less interested, personally. When I want to use the geometry of what’s around me, I invade. When I want to focus on combat, meaning dueling, I want simple, flat ground to do it on, so that as few external variables as possible affect my purposeful fight-about-skill against someone. In my mind, fighting in invasions is more about fight-for-fun/experience/thrills, compared to the arena’s fighting-for-skill/practice. I want simple, flat ground for the latter, and complex geometry for the former. That’s just preference of course; I agree with your reasoning for how complexity would help, otherwise.
Love the idea of item rewards,but im afraid thatll bring alot of player who just want to win and get that reward,using any kind of toxic builds you could imagine(maybe like sleep shotgun)
The pvp is just chaos,they'll never care
specimen storehouse is the real arena
It feels like Fromsoft just have contempt for anyone trying to engage in online PvP at this point. Invasions, duels, Even hosting with Taunter's Tounge. Trying to fight other players has never been in clunky in any previous Souls entry.
For the love of God can they just increase the player count to six and allow 3v3 invasions.
let FromSoft see this!
Lets be honest pvp peaked with dark souls 2 and 3 , no amount of bandage will fix it now in ER
Why is 125 always the meta? 250 is way better.
to answer your question i will add someone's comment here: "I’m 300 and never get any 2v2 or 3v3s here lol. Only pvp option is invading…" this is why 125-150-168 is meta. meta means most players to match.
Because builds at lvl 250 are incredibly unbalanced(think fullgoat mages).125 forces players to make sacrifices when crafting a build,is much more balanced,and increases build diversity.
Past level 200 if you know how to spread your points correctly you can become a master of everything character. The PvP is already unbalanced as is. At that level someone can go from trying to hit you with a melee weapon to bullet hell of sorceries, holy frisbees and giant fireballs very quickly lol
Thank you for sharing this
The real problem is the fact that the gamemodes suck. There's a complete lack of an unlimited time option, and the very obvious difference in spirit ash powers kinda ruins the spirit gamemode, and leads to everyone just using the exact same spirit instead of the multitude of other spirits that they made the effort of adding only for them to be literally unsuable because of how bad they are
With the amount of jank this game has, I feel like adding valuable items (like ancient dragon stones) to arena duels would incentivize ppl to use only the most broken shit ever to farm these items. That would solve the player base issue, sure, but every other player you are matched with will be running chainsaw / swift slash / instant sleep crossbow / etc.
It would probably be fine if the reward is cosmetic only tho
can it be saved? yes. will it be saved? HELLLL NAHHHH fromsoft dont give a FUKKKKKK
Big circle is lack luster.
I just think it's kinda crazy that we didn't get a new arena/arenas with the dlc.
Not surprising considering the fact that they added absolutely nothing pvp specific but still very disappointing.
I don't get this "unbalanced dlc items" issue. Everyone is still using the guts sword with their lightning buff and BHS. The only thing that's changed is the random best-in-slot helmet they put on for extra stat points. Their damage will shred you at even 60 VIG, so most of my pvp matches are just me waiting for them to do something stupid so I can kill them. I win more often than not, because of this. It's an awful experience, the dlc didn't really impact that for me.
We've been playing VASTLY different games then, the only weapons remaining are the better L2 sticks of the MLGS and BB, sometimes noobveil. Outside of that is nothing but DLC L2
@@leonardo9259 Yeah. i was expecting to see a lot of DLC L2 spam too...
All i see is people tacking on new tools to their cookie-cutter builds. Like throwing weapons over knives.
I did run into one "i found the sleep crossbow and ore sword build on youtube"
but that's it
lol. I can change your mind. Backhand blades/ swift slash/ fkgs.
Miyazaki hired the man who made ds2 pvp the best in the series, only to not allow him to do anything pvp related.
Cus "covenants do not fit the world of elden ring" and miyazaki doesn‘t play his own games, as if he‘d know the issues the game has.
Shame.
I think there are just too many ingredients in Elden Ring. I'd rather have "R1 Spammers" than the L2 enthusiasts that Elden Ring introduced. It used to be about spacing, if you learned that, you could pretty much use any weapon, now... It's about running around until your opponent has drained their FP or you find an opening to use an L2 of your own. One shot builds are more prevalent, almost needed, and the days of hitting someone with a sword are gone. Also, there is just no incentive to be yourself when it comes to fashion. If you're up against a high skill player rocking goat or solitude with shamshir, etc... You're going to get mopped up, it's that simple. I believe Elden Ring is firmly for PvErs and that PvP was added simply because it was in the other games.
It pains me, honestly pains me, because I feel like there was so much potential. Imagine being in a covenant as an invader and you're getting ganked, use some form of finger item, and it tries to prioritize other invaders in your covenant to invade your session as an ally. That would be sweet, obviously just an idea.
In DS3, I used the arena to warm up a bit before invasions, but I have never cared for it one way or the other. Invasions are what kept me around, and unfortunately what have driven me away from this game.
I’m 300 and never get any 2v2 or 3v3s here lol. Only pvp option is invading…
I think you shoulda earned great rune access by playing the colliseum
the whole multiplayer set-up is bad. simple scaling would fix it. lock people in around 125-150 and lock them in at 150. add stat points to the highest stats to make up the difference. or give the player an option to put points in to specific stats before the match starts. i've been lvl 5 and got summoned for co-op, only to have an invader come in with a white mask and ROB and just kill us. did we get scaled up to match him, or did he get scaled down to match us? No.
A good fix for stuff like this would be crossplay
They need to buff perfumes they suck so much but theyre so cool
Is there any hope for redemption? The answer, it seems, is clear. There never was any hope.
"Spellcasters are as valid as any other playstyle" one of the most and least hottest takes in elden ring
Rewards for rando enemy team, no rewards for whole friend password matches. Ez
They’ll never fix anything. Much happier since I stopped playing. Just wasn’t fun anymore.
No, it can't be saved.
The amount of logic used inside of this video is TOO HIGH.
FS decided to put barely a thought into PvP, it's flawed, from Co-op, to invasions, to pointless duels.
I really like the PvP but there's no way people will keep playing it like this, one of the things that really makes me sad about the PvP state is the absence of incentives to dueling/invasions.
Duels are pointless and kinda always similar in a way, invasions often makes you hated because people invaded feels like you're wasting their time and they have no incentive to kill you as well.
Why even making PvP if that's the case?
Even just the incentives would be a game-changing mechanic into the game.
The only players suffering in this game are invaders. Bad players/co-opers have it made.
Casters could've had better gameplay if FromSoft didn't nearly 1:1 Copy/Paste DS3's terrible Caster system.
There are numerous ways they've done this:
1. Make Catalysts function like real weapons. Functional R2, L2, L1 (Two-Handed), and Infusions.
2. Make FP recharge like Stamina but give Spells a cooldown. (Ex: FP_Cost ÷ 10 = Seconds needed to recast spell. So if a spell requires 50 FP to cast, they have to wait 5 seconds minimum to recast.)
3. Removing Spell Damage Buff Rings. Scorpions only affect weapon attacks.
4. The slightly improved spells of previous versions could've just been Charged Cast versions of the spell. (Ex: Swift Glintstone -> Glintstone Pebble)
I'd generally not be fond of these ideas. I tried messing around with the Carian sorcery sword, and it's very unaccommodating, purely because of how much extra work it takes to cast spells. The Carian regal scepter on the other hand has a perfect trick with the spin attack that can really punish, but does not get in the way of spell casting by over complicating the controls.
Second idea seems, ehh....FP isn't much of an issue at higher levels. It's about the action points and finding an opening to cast one. Cooldowns would just make melee rush down more powerful, and it's already a lot of work to find an opening to get to cast a spell. This would really only have benefit to it IF there was a hotbar to gain access to spells with ease instead of manually scrollable spell slots.
Damage buffs for spells are vital because in invasions the openings to cast spells are few and far between. Sometimes taking a ton of work to find even one. Nothing is more satisfying than managing to KO an opponent to instantly have more breathing room. On the other hand, because of the low amount of flasks, failing to KO an opponent in an opening can easily turn it into a battle where supplies run out for an invader while host/buddies has plenty to spare. Magic needs to make its mark when it makes it. Can't make spells easier to tank than they already are.
The fourth idea again sounds like it would complicate the controls and mechanics way more. I think the amount of upgrade spells gets seriously overplayed. Especially when sometimes there is a good reason to using lower power ones due to better tracking/casting time/to throw an opponent off. Nothing feels better than hurling out a greater glintstone shard, as it comes out instantly at sufficiently high DEX and can really catch incantation spammers off guard. Comet takes too long to use for this and gives a tiny bit of time to react to it.
Deranged
@@videocrowsnest5251
How is moving the Cast Spell from R1 to R2 overcomplicating the controls? What hurts the CSS is the confounding lack of ability to change its AoW and that it can't be Infused nor buffed.
If Carian Regal Scepter's Ash of War wasn't the sole useful exception in the entirety of Elden Ring for Catalysts, they could've just put Catalysts on the hotbar like Bloodborne did and we'd see little mechanical difference in Caster gameplay. That's how awful Catalyst gameplay is in the game.
"At higher levels." Exactly, unless you power level Mind, you're going to be playing as a Spellblade instead of a Caster for half the game.
Having a small cooldown window would cut down on same-spell spam. It would encourage mixups utilizing different spells and give greater priority on FP cheaper spells. The biggest complaints against Casters are again spell spam and their lack of interactivity with encounters.
General Damage Buff Rings are just a damage tax against Casters. By having these Rings, it's basically saying players have a 4% and 8% innate spell damage debuff unless you wear those Rings. NO ONE liked the Ring of Blades damage tax against Martial builds in DS2, but somehow it always gets a pass when it's applied against Casters.
Condensing the spells would clean up the spell list of near identical spells and every spell that's condensed would benefit from effects that boost Charging spells.
As a Caster main since DS1, playing as a Pure Caster in Elden Ring is awful during the early levels, though it's better at it than DS3. The entire game just pushes for Casters to play as Spellblades instead as that's where most of the magic support went, especially with the lack of gameplay improvements for Catalysts.
Easy fix.. delete swift slash....
Hard fix? Make it like ds3 with 6 players and 3v3 2v4 and adding some of the boss rooms into the arena map rotation and then add new ones from there.. covenants would be cool.. a reason to pvp again besides just abusing the blue system to help gank one red at a time is boring.. and invading is a slog unless you sweat or abuse one shots and backhand blades or thorn spells to cheese everything...
I'm all for including casuals and making the game more accessible.. but at what cost?? I don't think this was the right route.
I hope ds3 gets a remaster at this point, lol.
Edit: Fromsoft and Bandai need to take some notes from the modders that helped make archthrones and created the invade and be summoned near AND far feature.
Look at seamless co-op and give console players that with crossplay, maybe? That would be insane for some final updates before moving on to other projects.
Pvp is just a mini game in elden ring. There is no incentive. Very little initiative. The devs could care less for it. They couldnt even make sure taunters tounge couldn't be turned on an off. Elden ring is just a watered down dark souls for the mainstream masses who couldn't even bother to get gud. Spirit ashes and such. The mainstream didnt even get to exprience covenants and covenant based PVP.