Ford F-150 5.4L 3v P0021 P0022 Over Retarded Timing Codes After a Complete Timing Job: But Why?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2023
- In this video we show you it is not always so simple when it comes to diagnosing some of these timing error codes on the Ford 5.4L 3v Triton engines.
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I wish I had a purpose in life after 51 years of working in the automotive industry lol Brian you do a fantastic job of explaining everything and your patience is that of a saint
51 years?! You must have a lot of patience yourself
That sir was a repair a majority of Techs probably would not have made. Only those who have thorough knowledge of the engine would even think to look at that very small detail. Well done and impressive indeed!!
I think he even came across the answer by accident. He took out the bolt to look into the Fazer and had to buy a new bolt to put back in. Then noticed the old bolt had no washer.
That's a fascinating find. As a dealer technician i will say I'm usually too much in a hurry of being rushed to spot an issue like that. One of many issues of this industry right now is there is no patience.
Just goes to show that no manufacturer is immune from making mistakes, even Ford. Check and re-check, but still... unless you *know* how that bolt is supposed to be and why, easily missed. Wow. For want of a horseshoe nail, eh?
You're the best, Brian! Once again, lemme shout out you for giving me the knowledge (and frankly strength) to tackle my 4.6L 3v timing! My car still lives because of your wonderful 4 parter on that!
So true. Ford is the gold standard for design, engineering and workmanship.
Man, I never would have noticed that missing washer. Nice work!
That's a thousand dollar piece of information, great catch. Surprised that it wasn't in the service data but if the factory puts those washers on 999 times out of 1000, somebody will have to get the missed one and then post the info. Looks like you're that guy on this one.
This video highlighted the importance of the seal between the phaser bolt and the phaser seat. I had been chasing this problem for almost 4 years now and just assumed it was low oil pressure since it was the passenger side bank. When I got the truck I did a complete timing job, followed Brian's very helpful videos. After a few minutes after initial start up and smooth idle, the motor jerked and then ran rough. In the trouble shooting process I thought it might be a bad phaser, so I put the ford one back in.. turns out the timing chain guide broke amd it skipped a couple links. Re did the timing and still this same issue. I then compared the aftermarket phaser bolt length after watching the video to the one that came with the new cloyes phaser and sure enough the amazon bolts were a tad shorter in length between the underside of the bolt head to the phaser washer. Replaced the bolt and phaser (since it was an old oem unit) yesterday and problem solved, runs smooth finally and the codes all cleared on their own!
I believe this shows how incredibly tight the tolerances are in these engines and how sensitive they are to any improper assembly. I finally did my timing job on my 5.4 a couple of months ago and can't remember the washers. They must be there as it is running fine. I have to add that Brian is the reason I had the confidence to take on that work to keep my 5.4 running good. It seemed daunting at first but with his guidance it just seemed to get easier and easier to complete.
Thank you Brian.
Im currently doing mine. Stuck on removing the 6 rollers prior to removing all timing components but the middle ones seem to not want to come out with the tool.
Amazing how a little detail like that washer can make such a big difference. Well done!
I like seeing channels that actually diagnose and not just replace the engine like some of the other popular channels do. Seems "Narrow is the path" doesn't just apply to ones faith.
I actually found, more peace of mind, going with a " brand new ", 'short block', from ford,( and not rebuilt ) at 349,000 miles.
@@jefferythayer6103 At that mileage, I would agree. I was referring to Trucks under 150k miles knowing a well maintained 5.4 will do double that, especially if it's the original owner. One clown I refer to even suggests if you get 100k on the truck prepare to throw it away. he wants $10k plus labor to do you a favor.
Wow, I bet the owner if that truck is truly grateful to you - very good work !
King of the 3V. A lot of these F-150’s, Expeditions, Navigators can be had relatively inexpensive. After a full timing job these can go another 100k with regular maintenance, clean oil especially. A good option for a vehicle for yourself or your family. Obviously putting in all this mechanical work won’t increase resale enough to make it viable for a flip unless the vehicle can be initially purchased for next to nothing.
More than that!😊
Many are going 250,000 to 325,000 miles on all original 5.4 triton 3v engine parts, keep it maintained
I have 306,000 on a 06 f 150
These are the videos that are worth more than gold. Now, everyone that has a timing job to do and has watched this, can save themselves the frustration of knowing they did the job correctly and having an issue such as this.
Brian, you are a gift to us all!
P.s. any time to tear down that transfer case you changed out for me? I'm waiting for the autopsy, I have a theory about it.
What is surprising is the man has 'done quite a few of these' did not observe the lack of a critical washer on the bolt that attaches to the cam phaser. Yes, anyone can overlook the observation you made, however, when one performs a timing chain replacement, Every detail must be carefully paid attention to. Your explanation of the oil flow through the various ports of the bolt and the phasor was immensely important. Thank you, sir.
I've been working on my friends 2010 f150 about a year now did everything that you explained this owner did in this video to his truck pretty much the whole top end and I just seen this video today so I switched out the phaser bolts and sure enough it fixed the problem thank you makuloco you are a good inspiration and motivator! 😀 From Los Banos CA we thank you!.
That's hard to believe one washer could do that. Keep up the good work
And that sir is why I came to you for my full timing job and oil pump and exhaust manifold leak and oil pan replacement job on my 2009 5.4 3v😎
p.s. and I've been a semi truck mechanic since 1986 😂
Hi, how many miles were on your ‘09 when you had that work done? My original owner ‘09 was starting to develop a slight tap but now runs quiet as new again after I replaced the VCT solenoids last fall. The motor still looked like new inside when I had the valve covers off for the job so I guess proper oil change intervals all these years have paid off.
@squangan my Ole girl had 230,000 when timing set was done last July and now has right about 250,000 and I'm still getting around 14-16 city and 18-21 hwy , change my oil 5w30 every 3--4,000 miles , it's my money I'll cry if I want too,, I also purchased it used just 4 years ago and was getting taping on start-up and deceleration chain rattle and noticed peices of chain guides in the oil pan with bore scope, BUT all is good now .
@@bddfc1968 I’ve run 5-20 in it since new as it was strictly dealer maintained until 2017 and it’s probably only hit 5,000 between changes once on a long road trip, mostly it’s been 3-3,500 intervals. It also only has low miles at 68,000 as it’s always been my 2nd or 3rd vehicle, used only when I need a truck. At this point I think it may last almost indefinitely with continued proper care.
@squangan yes sir should be fine for years to come, I also noticed that when timing job was done it wasn't that it had worn much as one would think the plastic guides would be but instead so brittle from age and heat cycles from the engine temp and actually just started breaking into bits ..
@@bddfc1968 That’s interesting to know about them becoming brittle as compared to wearing. I’ll definitely keep it in mind.
Man I wish we had more smart mechanics like you. Keep it up and please continue to pass along your knowledge to the young generation!
This is what makes a mechanic though! Figuring out what caused the failure. Learning about something you have already mastered, as he has with this particular engine. Well done! All your videos are very informative and easy to follow. Thank you for the time you put into helping people! You're a hero. I mean that, truly. You're saving people thousands of dollars by education. You're amazing, sir. You should know that.
another "atta boy!" to you for splendid diagnostic work. Vehicles are complex enough and difficult to repair, we don't need the added burden of manufactured replacement parts being out of spec. Several comments that it is the wrong bolt due to the knurled area running down to the shoulder with no room for the washer. I believe that is because the washer has to be installed first, then the knurled area is completed, the installed washer would be a necessary spacing of the bolt assembly for that knurling process. But it is puzzling that a bolt could miss the washer install. There is an awful lot of bad out of spec parts showing up these days, many videos addressing this problem.
Exactly!
I just bought a truck and found out after the fact that the timing was off. I took it in to have a timing job. When the tech got in there he tells me the truck had a timing job fairly recently with after- market parts and that it must’ve been Mis-timed. He went ahead and re-did timing with parts as recommended by Makuloko at my request. Now I’m wondering if the issue wasn’t something like this. Very interesting. This channel has been a HUGE help since I purchased my truck!
Dude pretty sure if theFord TechMakuloco says something different than the ford techs or any mechanic around my area, I argue until my face, turns blue that the wrong that’s not how it should be. Pretty sure if ford techMakuloco told me I had to stick a finger up my ass and keep it there while I torqued my cam phasers 90 is degrees over then id probably watch it twice just to make sure he didn’t say to have two fingers in my ass hahahaha.
Your attention to detail is very good! Amazing a washer that cost mere cents, fixed the problem!
Nobody knows 5.4 3 v like this guy he's the best. Thanks
You can see that even the knurls are wrong so that there's no place for the washer to reside. I wonder how many of these were made and ended up in the parts chain.
I saw that too...!
You probably the only one to figure it out good job!
Yet another great diagnostic video, Brian. It's always a necessity to check all replacement parts. Keep up the great work.
I need to look in the kit that I have in the garage now and make sure I have this washer before I start my own timing job. Thanks again Brian!
Nice diagnosis & fix Brian! That's where knowledge & experience comes in! Great job!!
Great video ! reminding us all it's the minute details that makes the surgery/repair successful you're attention to detail is inspiring !
I am a Ford Senior Master Tech retired....thank you techmakuloco!!!!
NOT fixable with an over the air update 👍🏼💪🏼
Bravo, Brian. 👏🏼
LOL
Wow. You are a great mechanic. Great info. Incredible how sensitive the tolerances are. Great job. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Just a follow up, my Powertrain Products replacement engine that refused to run right, had silicone all in the pan and oiling system, clogged up vcts, they sent me another engine, it runs perfect. Lots of hard work, but our 2012 King Ranch was too nice to not fix and keep. Bank 1 chain adjuster would not keep chain tight, eventually leading to po300 and po305. I finally had enough, so kudos to them for making it good. These engines are assembled in Mexico, and come out of ACT warehouses all around the country. Powertrain assured me that the replacement had just come off the spinitron and was good. Now, if I can just get them to pick up the core! Thanks for your videos, phaser bolt without a washer? Who would have thought.
Now I know what to look out for when I do this job on my expedition. Your info and tips are awesome brother!
Even though I will never go this far on my repairs is just great to know this. Awesome video sir!!! This show how crucial engine oil is on newer modern engines.
Done a few of these myself and that would have had me baffled! Good detective work Brian!
Best mechanic hands down! saving me money and headaches for 5 yrs. Cheers!
Thank you for taking the time to explain everything in detail. What an awesome video.
Omg! That is amazing! I wish I could find a great mechanic like you here in South Florida.
You are an amazing mechanic and thank you for sharing so much knowledge with the rest of us sir! GOD BLESS YOU!
This is an awesome find. I am a journeymen technician for Ford in Illinois.I have never run across this problem yet. Thank you for sharing this with us. God Bless!
I'm impressed....got a 08 150 KR with 190,000 miles and no issues....I followed your recommendation to go to 5w-30 full syn oil and change every 5k miles....this engine is sweet......smooth, and the 300 ponies coupled with 3:73 gears pulls my 20 ft bass boat thru mountains with ease.....gas milage ain't bad either.....I'm subscribed !!
Brian is the master at his work !
This was a fun video. Great catch. Way to look for the minute details.
Awesome find. I wouldn’t have thought of that either. Just something else to check. Thanks!!!
A video I watched just b4 this one was stumping a tech because of timing being off on a VW diesel Jetta. The fix was it needed a new main seal !!! nice catch FTM.
Brian you're like Columbo! What a detective story.
Excellent tutorial ! Super coaching techniques !! Super helpful .
Excellent diagnosis Sir! Bravo!
Wow, awesome find and fix, thanks Brian 👍😁
Super informative video, thanks for teaching us!
Well done Brian nice catch ❤❤it. Take care of yourself and family and be Blessed.
Only you. Bravo👏 . Thanks for being the " sluth " of mystery solving. I've watched you in the past, and you have helped me, greatly. I've commented, before, of my 2004 w/5.4, bought new, in 2003. Married to the ' faults ', and the good times. My XLT with 376,000, will still see me, towing my rv, once again. Thanks Bryan.
Good video 👍👍 went the extra mile for sure. You never know what someone else may have missed.
Perfect explanation for the situation
Outstanding catch on that washer.
Oh, thanks to you, I changed my spark plugs on 2014 Exp. It was stumbling a bit on acceleration, yet no codes. I believe those were the original plugs, at 152 K miles, no tips left on any of 8. Like a 1/4 inch gap. Thank You for giving us confidence in maintaining our Tritons 👍
My 07 Nav is coming up on the 200k mile mark zero issues. As preventative maintenance gonna be getting a timing job done soon. Hopefully I find a mechanic as knowledgeable as you 🙏🏽
Awesome diagnosis Brian, as usual!
Just amazing! Definitely a manufacturing QC issue, man that small part definitely caused some sleepless night!
Sherlock holmes to the MAX !! , always a pleasure to watch you work. brother
I’ve been lucky no issues on my 2012 Expedition but I’ve been looking and listening.
Great job thanks for sharing your experience
Another awesome video from the master of Triton engines 👍👍👍👍
Immense attention to detail, sir. I sold my wife’s 2012 Expedition because it needed the timing done, and I was too afraid to do it lol
Now I’m back in the boat w/ a 2008 Navigator w/ only 52k miles. When the time comes, I will spend even more hours watching all of your videos because I refuse to spend the ungodly amount of money the dealers and shops want. Again, thank you so much for all of your knowledge and beyond attention to detail.
HEY! Hello and thank you for the awesome videos!
That’s a hell of a find…… you definitely have to know your stuff in order to catch something like that..👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great catch. Not sure many techs would catch that
Good stuff. I'm doing that timing set and what not later today.
Wooooooowwwwww! Incredible detective work Brian! A true Master Tech!!
Turned out to be a pretty darn good video explaining how it works as well
Fantastic stuff only a mechanic appreciates!
I'm not a mechanic and I still appreciate what Brian does. Another great catch and something to add to the note book ;-)
That was a wealth of information, thank you.
That's one heck of a good catch. Bravo.
Great video!
Very informative!
Thanks for the info...
That was a great repair job and the thing I see is that you have tons of patience and stick to it to find the problem. Thanks again for your videos I always check to see what you say.
Outstanding vid Brian!
Thanks Brian. Great video
I bet the guy that did this job will never fail to look for the washer again !
Awesome video
Now im going to pay attention to see if those washer are always included
Good morning Brian another great video best of the best in ford land just a missing washer peace n love brother 🙏🏿
Amazing skills. You take the truck to the ford dealer and they would say that you new a a new engine .. no kidding thank you dude
great Job figuring that out.
Thanks for your dedication sir.❤
265,000 miles trans went out so had rebuilt, then had first timing job done. I would love to send ya photos of the guides, barly worn looking. And pictures of inside engine. Mobil one every 5000 miles since 22,000 miles. Swear by that. Outstanding. Looked like a new engine. Am sure you would be impressed.
Hey Bryan I learn so much from you. Would you consider doing timing chain replacement video on the Gen 3 coyote and 3.0 nano engines I have both that soon need replacing
Great find!
Great find Brian !
Brian I noticed that the bolt missing the washer has another difference. The knurled part was machined all the way up to the shoulder leaving no space even for the washer...very interesting find. You're an incredibly talented tech, thank you for the helpful videos..very much appreciated!
Definitely, the missing washer messed up the gauging for the machining process.
What a find and fix. Amazing
Wow!! Unbelievable! Good eye man good eye! I agree with another comment that no way would any local shop would find that issue. You have to know this pain in the ass motor inside and out!! Very impressed!!
You are amazing, only if local machanics here (FL) had half your abilities or at least you care to to a good job.
Thanks for the video u do a great job on the videos
Great job Brian must have been a Monday morning assembly at the plant😎
Man you are a God to me!! You have me hooked on working on these 3valve engines. And I don’t know what I’d do without your knowledge and teachings. Pretty sure If you told me to eat dog shit that it would man my truck run faster… I’d ask you how much should I eat lol. Thank you for all that you do man on here cause you have saved me thousands and thousands of dollars.
Good work, Brian. Ford quality. Let's cross the each t and dot every i.
Best ford repair videos
Brilliant, thank you.
That is nuts! Attention to detail pays off, if he would have noticed the missing washer and questioned it maybe he wouldn't have had to send it to you for repair.... BUT, I'm glad he didn't because now we have all learned from this. Excellent Brian, you are so great to have as a teacher on TH-cam. Thank you for all you do with your channel, you're a good man. Happy Father's day as well!
Very well done.