Because God doesn't operate like a human. You cannot betray him or lose your salvation. If you could it would mean Christ died in vain. It's a gift. Paid for by Christ. God is not an Indian giver
@@EdWard-ie5wn yeah well a third of the angels fell just because they forsook him and they were already in heaven. So like Troy says, if you foresake him on earth you never really did love him. No different than two teenagers who swear at the age of 13 they will get married and live together then end up with someone else 4 months later … sure they thought it was love they felt but no it wasn’t really.
To answer your question - We can't reject God's grace because we do not come to God by our own efforts or thoughts. John 6 tells us we cannot come to Jesus unless God the Father draws us (literally more like dragging, as water is drawn from a well -- same word). It also tells us that everyone who has learned from the Father will come to Jesus (and scripture elsewhere teaches that we are made into a new creature). It further tells us that none of those given to Jesus will be lost, but we will be raised up on the last day. God (the Father) draws us. God (the Father) gives us to Jesus. Jesus keeps us. It's not of our doing, and thus cannot be of our undoing, either. Be well.
@@jpreston84 this is not scriptural. You can lose your grace. Matthew 7:21-23 (RSVCE): 21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
I’m a reformed Baptist and personally I’m on the side of eternal security, but I’ve been studying God’s Word and doing my research to see what the other side has to say! And not only this subject, but also just the Catholic faith in general. This was a different perspective, thank you, and God bless! I noticed the guy they had talk on this subject was the same guy that James White debated, seems like a very smart guy.
A dilemma the Catholic cannot answer - how can Jesus say “i never knew you” in a world where mortal sin and reconciliation can make one flip flop in and out of salvation? The statement is “never knew you” but salvation is knowing him. if you can lose salvation, then for a time you “knew” jesus then didn’t thus making the “never knew you” claim a lie.
@@change_your_style best to fight them on their Plainfield. Trust me they’re playing field is a contextual mess. They dogmatically snip pieces of scripture like Romans 11 to miss interpreted as losing salvation, completely, ignoring the context of every passage, just to make a dogmatic case. They do this with purgatory, they do this with Marry, they do this with the Saints, they do this with indulgences. What it really boils down to is really quite simple. “The church came from Christ there for the church is without air. Therefore whatever the church says goes”. That’s what it’s going to boil down to after you’ve eroded there defenses. And the sad reality is otherwise intelligent individual’s remain blind to the truth of god because ultimately, they are dead in sin- blinded by the god of this world because they live a life of penance, trying to do good works to please God versus relying completely on faith and letting faith yield good works.
@@change_your_style For the sake of your immortal soul, you need to understand that you can walk away from being born again. Christ himself told us to abide in him (John 15) after we have been born again (ie: baptised - John 3 and 1 Peter 3:21) otherwise you may be cut off and thrown into the fire.
If marriage is a picture of the relationship between Christ and his church it seems odd to me that, in the view of Rome, a valid marriage cannot be dissolved, but a true incorporation into the Body and Bride of Christ can. Now, I am not saying that the warnings of falling away are not there for good reason. That those who stand should take heed, lest they fall, is wise in every aspect of life and we are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. But when Trent quotes Protestants who claim that those who walk away from the faith were never truly saved, that is exactly what Catholics say about annulments (i.e. that the marriage was simply never valid in the first place). That has always struck me as odd.
Read 1 John 2:18 through the rest of the chapter, and see what it says about those who professed one thing and and did another and see what the scriptures actually say about those deserters!
The bible never indicates in the first place that there would be a man can forgive sin! There is never a verse that says we are not to pray directly to God and confess our sin, we are sealed unto the day of redemption with the Holy Spirit. Believe the way you want, but why quote what is actually written to someone that doesn't believe they are infallible!
@Trent "once saved always saved" is in direct conflict with 1 Corinthians 11: 27-29. St. Paul proclaims that one may not partake of the bread and cup unworthily lest they bring judgement onto themselves. My questions are that if a saved person is always saved... 1. How would it be possible for an always saved person to be in an unworthy state? 2. How could an always saved person eat and drink judgement onto one's self? 3. If we are to believe the Protestant belief that the bread and wine are nothing but bread and wine, unchanged into something other than mere bread and wine, how could they possibly have such importance that one could eat the bread and drink the wine unworthily whether they are once saved, always saved or not? The Protestant doctrine of once saved, always doesn't just contradict 1 Corinthians 11: 27-29, it is at war with that passage.
You suppose your view as fact, you don't even believe the word eternal that God uses really means eternal! Seal unto the day of redemption as heresy, you must believe God doesn't know the end from the beginning, He seals the believers with the Holy Spirit unto eternal life but has to wait to see if He made a mistake, doesn't that sound rather foolish! Had they been with us they would have remained with us, they departed to show that THEY WERE NEVER OF US. If you don't believe that and all verses walk hand in hand, you will never see error!
The same who says, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." Also says, "As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning (i.e. the Gospel) remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us-eternal life." 1 John 2
Dear brother, John is talking from the beginning in 1 John about fellowship with God. In verse 18 it talks about Antichrists going out from them, from the fellowship of the Church, cause they were never of them, wheter saved or not. Verse 24 is saying that everyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ is saved forever, but can lose his fellowship with God if they don't abide in Him.
If predestination is what caused the ones that went with us but since they were not predestined they did not belong to us, then why did Jesus say that he wished that none would perish. We all have free will. The predestination theology does not correspond with even John 3:16. He loved the world. That cancels out predestination.
@@axxel9626 You started with what the text really said and then diverted and added your misunderstanding of the words in the text. You just need to keep reading the words and then say you don't really believe they are inspired by God because they say had they been one of us they would have remained with us, but they left us to show they were never of us. Is that not true or NOT> you read your belief in to what you said was the text. Shame on you.
I am liking the new thumbnail style! And I agree that we can definitely lose our salvation. I fear this and that’s why it’s so important for me to stay close to the sacraments: confession and communion. I need to receive Jesus and I need His grace to help me avoid temptation of sin.
Do not be deceived by Trent. A true believer cannot lose their salvation. The Bible is clear on this. "He who has begun a good work in you will complete it...". Salvation is God's work and He will complete it. You can do nothing to maintain it or keep yourself saved.
My friend I say this in love but I utterly reject the idea of fearing that you will loose your salvation. This right here is a trick that is of Satan because your hull walk is motivated by fear and not gods love and power. This fear will not set you free from sin. Fearing that you will loose your salvation is rooted in pride and is a sin because it comes from trying to earn gods love and based on how you perform day to day which makes you fearful. This will only reap death in your walk there is no life in that lie. It is the love and goodness of god that brings a man to repentance and through that your actions change. This is the biggest lie in Christianity that so many people are in snare to. Good bless and he love you unconditionally.
This makes me sad that people believe this loosing your salvation garbage and I’m sick of hearing it😢😣 it’s his love and power that changes us not him threatening that he will throw you in hell! Stop believing this lady! I’m so sad for you and I’m praying for you now! Please do you can experience life! God power! If I were with you in the person I would be begging and pleading that you would see!😢
Not will never EVER EVER dis own his child!!! Would you??? If you would then you don’t have love for your child. Doesn’t matter how much you sin! God will only show you even deeper levels of his love that would be very difficult to resist!
I feel lost and don’t fully understand how I can avoid hell….it says God has mercy on who he wants to….so does anything I do matter? I believe with all my heart for real it’s so real to me, but I’m practicing sin willingly even though I don’t want to do it and know it’s wrong and feel like God has forsaken me because he won’t bother with someone who he knows is going to hell anyways….I don’t get why no matter how much I pray or beg or cry out he doesn’t want to intervene like he does in other believers lives. I’m so hopeless and fear judgement and hell every day😢
Go to confession, if you truly repent and want to commit your sins no more, Jesus Christ (in the person of the priest) will forgive your sins :) Another important thing : only mortal sins cut you from the grace of God, and these sins must be commited in 1. Perfect knowledge of the sinful nature of the act 2. Perfectly willingly (if you fall in temptation or for others reasons, your will was not perfectly unaltered) 3. Regarding a grave matter. If one of these conditions is not met, the sin is not mortal, it's venial (and the Holy Mass takes away venial sins), for the rest, there is the sacrament of confession, God IS waiting you to return to him, for there is more joy in heaven for one sinner that repents than for 99 justs that live holy lives. Just go, He's impatient to have you back
That fact that you feel so convicted proves that you have the Holy Spirit. Faith in Jesus is what saves us, not works. (Ephesians 2:8-9) A Christian isn't saved one day and lost another. God has you in His hands, we all sin but He will keep us from falling away. (Jude 1:24) Continue to grow closer to Him. He will finished the work He started in you. (Philippians 1:6)
Gods mercy is endless and his grace is everlasting, he will never leave you nor forsake you, everyday that God gives you is another day to get right with him and give everything to him, God's got you, he's Givin you his Holy Spirit so all the feelings of fear and doubt and discouragement are from the enemy, don't listen to them, cause God has called you his child, you are wonderfully and fearfully made, trust in the Lord with all your heart, he will guide you if u try, and he doesn't pick and choose on who he wants to have mercy on for his mercy is for everyone, he will never turn away the one who comes to him, if u truly want to quit with sin, then give it to him, for we cannot change ourselves he wants us to come to him as we are and give everything to him so he can change us, and clean us from all unrighteousness, he's already paid the ultimate price for our sins, so we can have assurance through him that we will be with him and that our sins are forgiven when we repent and accept him into our heart as our Lord and Savior, and pray to the Holy Spirit to lead you, guide you, and teach you for he's given you a spirit of power, comfort, and teaching not a spirit of fear that's just the enemy trying to get you, don't let him remember, through the power of prayer the Lord will win our battles for us, so don't worry and don't be scared the Lord has you in his loving arms keep reading your Bible and keep in prayer and lean not unto your own understanding but lean onto his understanding and learn of him, for his yoke is easy and his burden is light. God loves you always remember that. We are all sinners that's just what we are, but we don't have to dwell on that cause we know that through Jesus Christ, we are saved by his grace through faith because of what HES done. God bless you.
Even Paul in the Bible said he did things he didn't want to do and didn't do things he wanted to do. We all struggle with sin. Jesus is our high priest, not man. You can pray and repent to Jesus and ask him to forgive you and to help you over come what you are struggling with. Start reading the Bible too. I saw a study that reading 4 times or more a week really helps people in changing their lives!😊
The position for Calvinist that hold to baptismal regeneration seems to be super conflicting. If a baptized regenerate believer falls away which happens then it destroys their erroneous position, & as Trent Horn mentions which obliterates osas is per Saint Paul, w/ ones faith being ship wrecked...amongst countless other texts
@@Bigdaddyschnooks that does not hold up. I can give you countless texts refuting that, but in short, would an unbeliever have their faith shipwrecked? Told to finish the race, not fall away? Christ in Luke 22 prays Saint Peters faith will not fail. Rom 11 we can be grafted in & cut off. Christ says abide in him & bear fruit otherwise thrown into the fire. Saint Paul says several times that such sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The Parable of the Prodigal Son shows falling away & returning. Christ gave authority to his apostles to forgive sin, sacrament of confession in John 20 as well as His body & blood all thru the Gospels that we may have life by partaking this sacrament. Hebrews is explicit that partakers of the Holy Spirit can fall away. Saint James tells us a multitude of sins will be covered if we turn a sinner back from the error of his ways. Saint 2Peter 20-21For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. I can keep going but hopefully you see the truth of scripture & the position this ancient holy faith has had the entirety of church history
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
*"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."* (Ephesians 4:30) Brother, this verse right here is straight outta the word of God. The day of redemption is the second coming of Jesus where the believers are resurrected and made whole with their new, glorified bodies. That is the end goal/the point of the "good fight" or the "race" as Paul refers to it. The Holy Spirit is given to believers upon believing (Ephesians 1:13). Now, if you think you can break the seal of the Holy Spirit, I don't know what to tell you. As far as people that "were saved" but fell away: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1 John 2:19)
Excellent points. Can’t fight logic lol. A dilemma the Catholic cannot answer - how can Jesus say “i never knew you” in a world where mortal sin and reconciliation can make one flip flop in and out of salvation? The statement is “never knew you” but salvation is knowing him. if you can lose salvation, then for a time you “knew” jesus then didn’t thus making the “never knew you” claim a lie. I would also encourage you to continue reading the Thessalonians series. I get the feeling you think that believers remain asleep until the day of the second coming before we are resurrected consciously into heaven. Scripture doesn’t teach that. But that’s a common misconception.
@@HillbillyBlack If salvation was knowing God, then Satan and his angels wouldn't have ever fallen. Did Jesus say "I never knew you" to all who reject him or to _many_ who rejected him?
@@HillbillyBlack Why are you shying away from what I said about Satan? And why would Paul have to tell the Romans not to subject themselves to sin again if they're already under grace and therefore wouldn't be sinning anyway?
@@aprendiz4 im showing you what salvation really is. Satan didn’t have salvation. It didnt exist then just as it didn’t exist for Adam. These were created in grace with choice. Humanities creation after the angelic fall sealed the angels decisions on both sides. Today Gabriel cannot choose to rebel. Just as the regenerate today, reborn and made alive cannot choose to undo salvation. The truly regenerate are redeemed and made alive. Not made alive by human will.
So basically Yes, even those who are once Saved from sin still have free will and can choose to no longer be Saved from and sin, and go on sinning. We still are held accountable for our actions. Christ tells us repeatedly as he told the woman accused of adultery, "Go and sin no more." Here's an example for those who disagree- Satan. Even though he was in God's very presence in Heaven, in such a much more secured holy state than any holy person set foot on earth besides our Lord had yet witnessed... he fell. See Revelations 12
You are going to sin no matter what. Whether you are saved or not. To say you can lose your salvation because of sin is ridiculous. If that's the case what is the purpose of Christ.
I agree that scripture tells us repeatedly not to sin. That's a matter of sanctification, not justification. Why do you think Satan is a proof of the ability to lose salvation. Do you believe that Satan was saved at some point previously?
@@EdWard-ie5wn Friend, I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to the person who suggested that Satan is an example of lost salvation. I don't think scripture supports that position at all.
Do you steel have it? How do we keep it? The problem of thinking that we can lose salvation it stands in the fact that we think we have the power to gain it in the first place. If that doctrine of losing salvation is true theres no hope gain it back has it says in the book of Hebrews 6:4("impossible to bring on to repentance those who....")
You don't lose your salvation by sinning a number of times, you lose it by ceasing to care about God's commandments, which would lead you to becoming a sinner again. Hebrews 6 actually refutes you, since you believe you can't fall away after you've been given the Holy Spirit, which means it doesn't make sense for Hebrews to be talking about falling away on verse 6 onwards if it can't happen. On principle, you would reject any interpretation that doesn't make sense.
@@aprendiz4 no. You CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION. YOU NEVER EARNED IT. JOHN 10:28 AND 2 TIMOTHY 2:13 ARE SUPER CLEAR. Tha verse you quoted is saying that we should not abuse the grace of God, that we may not be chasened by Him.
@@axxel9626 None of the two verses you cited make your point. I would show you how, but you seem to think you're infallible when you interpret those verses. Do you want to know why your interpretation is not valid in light of the message of the Bible?
To anyone reading this. I do have a genuine question and all answers are welcome. I do believe that salvation can be lost by apostate, but does that mean that if I commit a sin at all, will I lose my salvation? Or is my loss in salvation just the rejection of God's grace and leaving Jesus in the dust after accepting Christ as savior?
Catholic teaching is that venial sin does not separate your relationship with God. Mortal sin does and will likely cause you to go to Hell if you die without repentance. (look up the requirements to committing a mortal sin)
Will Jesus Christ EVER ,,,,, UN.. redeem his own ,,,after ...he has redeemed them? Does Jesus Christ abort his own or put them on probation ? OSAS IS CHRISTIANITY PERIOD. END OF THIS DEBATE PERIOD
SO you realy believe Jesus Christ will ..un.. redeem his own? do u even know what redemption is ? How do you call.Jesus Christ a liar in John ch 3 vs 16 ? So you dont believe in redemption satan has you very very spiritualy blinded and you believe in you dont need to trust JESUS CHRIST ALONE FOR YOUR SALVATION ..OSAS IS IN THE BLOOD AND DNA OF GOD ALL MIGHTY
@theodoreritola7641 Am blinded? Who's the one who believes In a doctrine that didny exist till 1500 years after Christ? U do know ur doctrine was taught for the first time during the reformation right?
I have asked God every fucking day of my life for the past 15 years to give me a tangible, physical, real visible audible JUST ANYTHING BESIDES SILENCE AND UNANSWERED EVERYTHING AND GETTING FRUSTRATED BC IM TRYING TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEONE/something THAT NEVER RESPONDS!!!! Idk how anyone can think they really know the answers to anything about what happens after death, meaning of life, purpose, if we have an eternal soul that goes to a physical place after this life, if there’s a God worth worshiping if God is even real If there is a hell and how we can avoid it I can go on and on. No one asked for any of this and if it’s easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than it is to get in to heaven, why the fuck is that fair how is that right when everyone regardless of free will is a product of their environment their genes the people around them and we had no choice or chance where or who were born to. How can hell be an acceptable punishment for crimes we committed that offend God when we had no choice in the matter to even be alive let alone the environment you’re born in to. Hell bothers me so bad I hope it’s not real
A dilemma the Catholic cannot answer - how can Jesus say “i never knew you” in a world where mortal sin and reconciliation can make one flip flop in and out of salvation? The statement is “never knew you” but salvation is knowing him. if you can lose salvation, then for a time you “knew” jesus then didn’t thus making the “never knew you” claim a lie.
XoMa, you sound a lot like I did when I was a diehard believer trying to desperately to sense out of all the nonsense. When we're dealing with unproven supernatural claims, there will never be enough prayer, belief, faith, etc to make it true or make it work. It's okay to admit "I don't know". Sometimes it actually takes a lot of humility to say that.
@@HillbillyBlackit's not a hard response, and it's only a dilemma when it's already put in the framework of eternal security (confirmation bias) or there is a lack of understanding of mortal sin and the sacrament of reconciliation. Flip flopping is a misunderstanding of mortal sin. No one accidentally or out of imperfection commits mortal sin. They are fully aware of and actively make a choice with grave consequences. In the context of Matthew and even John if one doesn't obey the Lord they don't love the Lord and therefore, doesn't enter heaven. Reconciliation was given so should we reject God per the criteria above (not just being imperfect) we can be welcomed back with evidence of contrition and repentance.
@@cyberfist6568 Is eternal life eternal? Does God transformed the heart? Do those in the vine produce fruit? Does god prune those in the vine? Does even the fool walk the way? Are we not regarded as sons for correction? Does God cause us to walk in his rules and statutes? To lose something supposes the mechanism that saves is not of God. Is god so weak that the will in men is able to overcome him? Or is god so powerful that he is able to keep you from stumbling? Is our perceived will bestowed supernatural power to resist God? And if so where did the power come from in the new covenant? Or…s god so powerful that he’s able to bring you to completion? If this is all true then language of loss has to be reevaluated contextually otherwise confusion is created and one Has to choose from a 50-50 choice derived from plainly read text out of context using human will vs trust. Do we make much of men or much of God? Is God sovereign? It’s the God you KNOW versus the god you think. THE ROMAN SYSTEM WILL NEVER ANSWER THIS CORRECTLY UNLESS IT’S SELF IS REFORMED TO THE TRUTH OF GOD’S WORD.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” ( John 6:37-40)
If you can't lose your salvation prior to death, either you have become incapable of sin or God no longer cares whether you sin or not. Both of these heresies have their adherents among contemporary Protestants.
Friend, neither of these is a belief held by most denominations, particularly those who hold to Reformed Theology. The belief is that, instead, Jesus died once for all (according to Hebrews 7), meaning that his death, which happened before I was ever born, covered my sins, and no additional atonement is necessary. Christ's death was not only sufficient (capable of wiping away my sins), but also efficient (meaning he accomplished exactly what he set out to do -- as he said, "it is finished"). It is not as though my additional (future, to me) sins are a surprise to God. He knew and knows what sins I will commit, even when I myself do not yet know. Those sins were covered by the blood of Christ before I was ever born. My salvation is not contingent on me doing anything. It is God who did it all. Be well.
@@jpreston84 You make some sense. But it is still God who does it all at confession. I think losing salvation is still possible, otherwise the concept of "deadly and undeadly sin" is not functional, especially the ones that were in fact, listed in scripture. Also, why would Jesus tell his Apostles, "Whoever's sins you forgive are forgiven, and whoever's sins you retain are retained"? What would be your understanding of this? These are just some of my questions, if possible I'd love for the Catholic Answers' one to be refuted. Peace be upon you :)
@@regandonohue3899 - Sorry for the late reply. Simply, the idea of deadly/mortal sins, as Catholics regard them, is mostly an invention of the church, and simply not found in scripture. The closest one can come in scripture are two passages. In Mark 3:28-30, we read about those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. But notice how this is different from the Catholic model -- verse 29 says that person "never has forgiveness". It is not a "mortal sin" from which one needs redemption. Rather, it is an unpardonable sin for which there is no forgiveness. And then, in 1 John 5:16-17, we read about a "sin that leads to death". But again, this is not a "mortal sin" in the Catholic sense. The author of the epistle says one should not even pray for this sin. Finally, as regards the "power" to forgive sins, this is actually a translational issue. This is not an empowerment, but rather a command. Literally, it's more like "If you forgive sins, they are already forgiven by God." And think through the simple logic -- it is God's prerogative alone, as the one who has been sinned against, to forgive sins. This verse immediately follows the phrase "Receive the Holy Spirit." In other words, Christ is commissioning them as the ones he sent out, to forgive after like manner as Christ himself has forgiven us. I hope this helps.
@@jpreston84 I John 5:16-18: If anyone sees his brother committing a sin that is not a deadly sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not deadly. There is sin which is deadly; I do not say one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not deadly. We know that anyone born of God does not sin, but He who is born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. Three points: 1. These verses cannot be any plainer that there is such a thing as “deadly sin” and “sin which is not deadly.” That is precisely what the Church means by mortal (sin unto death) and venial (sin not unto death) sin. 2. St. John distinguishes the effects of mortal and venial sin as well. Members of the Body of Christ can pray for someone who commits venial sin (sin “which is not deadly”) and “life” (Gr. - zo-ay, or the divine life of God) and healing can be communicated to him through that prayer. But when it comes to “deadly sin,” St. John tells us not to “pray for that.” This is not meant to say we should not pray for a person in this state of sin at all. Scripture is very clear that we should pray for “all men” in I Tim. 2:1-2. The context seems to indicate that he is referring to praying that God “give [the wounded member of Christ] life” directly through that prayer. Divine life and healing can only come through members of the Body of Christ to other members in a direct way if the person being prayed for is in union with the Body of Christ. For mortal sin, one can only pray that God would grant the grace of repentance to the sinner so that they may be restored to communion with the Body of Christ through the sacrament of confession. To understand this better, consider the analogy St. Paul uses for the people of God in I Corinthians 12:12-27-the analogy of the physical body of a human being. St. Paul tells us we are all members of “the Body of Christ.” A wounded finger that is still attached to its host body can be healed organically by the rest of the body. That kind of wound is analogous to the effect of venial sin. A severed finger, however, cannot be healed by the rest of the body because it is no longer attached to the body. That kind of wound is analogous to the effect of mortal sin. So it is in the Body of Christ. 3. Just after distinguishing between mortal (deadly) and venial (non-deadly) sins, St. John says “anyone born of God does not sin.” We know St. John could not be referring to all sin here because he already told us in I John 1:8: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” Christians sin. It is clear from the context that St. John is referring to mortal sin here. If we sin mortally, we are cut off from the Body of Christ and are no longer in union with God. In that sense, the one who is in union with God cannot sin mortally. This is yet another clear distinction between mortal and venial sins in this text. First we must define what is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The Catechism states: “Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.” There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss (CCC 1864). Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to refuse God’s mercy. It is a refusal to repent of sin. God does not bring anyone into his kingdom against his/her will. Human persons have the ability to reject God’s mercy and refuse forgiveness of sins which leads to eternal separation from God.
Forget about contemporary protestants. "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin- 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin - Romans 6:7" & "In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus - Romans 6:11" By the way, the first part of your logic is correct.
Funny how only calvinists believe in the 5 points. Out of all the other denominations and people that ever read the Bible, Calvin was the only one to say "you can't choose salvation, you're totally depraved, if you're elect than you'll be a good Christian and if you sin then maybe you never were or ever will be a true Christian." Not like it matters because the elect can sin but they're already forgiven long before they ever commit the sin. Also if you aren't elect, then there's nothing that can be done. God is sovereign, he made you and tons of other people just to exist in torment for no fault of your own. God made you totally depraved, dead in your sin, and since he didn't elect you he won't toss you the life raft of grace and regenerate your heart so that you no longer sin. Most calvinists will think of a non elect person as if they deserve hell for not being chosen like they were. It's a gross theology to me and I wonder if JWs and Mormons are closer to Christian than calvinists are.
"Most calvinists will think of a non elect person as if they deserve hell for not being chosen like they were." I believe in election/predestination, and I don't know a single electionist/predestinationist who believes "the non-elect deserving hell for not being chosen as they were" as if 'electionists/predestinationists' believe they themselves do not believe they also deserve hell. Every human being in history, other than Christ, was and is fully deserving hellfire.
@@soulosxpiotov7280 but doesn't jesus want everyone to be saved? 1 Tim 2. Does god want the unelect to be saved or is scripture wrong here? The unelect may not have chosen christ if they were given the choice but the fact that they have no choice in calvinism means they were created for destruction. How can they be blamed for their destruction if there was nothing they could do to overt it? Does god truly want to save these people? If so why doesn't he? Is something they are doing preventing him from doing so?
@@timboslice980 That God "desires" everyone to be saved does not mean He elects everyone. Read Romans 9 when you get a chance - but I'll cut to the chase - it says "Who are YOU, OH MAN, ....to talk back to God!" That be the answer, we have no right to take offense at God.
@@soulosxpiotov7280 I did not say that. Not all are elect....He desires us to be saved but something must be stopping god from getting what he wants. Why do you think god wants the unelect to be saved?
@@timboslice980 Romans 9 & 10 answers your question. Question is, will you reject what Romans 9 & 10 says? I'm glad I'm not Pharaoh, whom the Lord hardened to show His glory. But there is a difference between "desire" and a higher purpose, which is His glory.
@@Keepitoriginalministry Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” ( John 6:37-40)
First of all, it is NOT TRUE that all Christians during the first 1500 years believed that a true Christian can lose his/her salvation. During the 4th century St. Augustine taught what is now known as Calvinism. It is also important to note that not everybody who believes in the eternal security of the believer is a Calvinist. Many are not (although I am). Let's look at scriptures: John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand". What part of NEVER don't RC's and Arminians understand? Also: 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us".
Augustine was not calvinist wth. Augustine said it is not a sin to worship the Eucharist but that it is in fact a sin NOT to worship the Eucharist. Does this sound Calvinist?
You took 1 John 2:19 out of context. If you read the whole passage, St. John, the author of the epistle, was talking about the false teachers or the "antichrists" who have invaded the Church and were teaching a Gnostic heresy that Jesus did not come in the flesh but was instead a phantom or a ghost. St. John was not talking about all apostates in that verse; he was only talking about the Gnostic heretics who were invading the Church and impersonating true Christians. For example, it is said by the scribe who has blonde hair and who fought in a war as a child soldier, which moved and drove her to desperately seek and search for the meaning of "I love you" by writing down letters: "No letter that could be sent deserves to go undelivered". What shall we say then? Does this verse mean that all letters must be delivered to those that the letters are supposed to be delivered to, which includes letters with harmful words and Satanic spells? By no means! In the context of the passage, she was talking to a little girl who was the daughter of her client whom she was writing a letter for.
@@crusaderACR Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@@crusaderACR Augustine- “…inasmuch as it is He that justifies the ungodly, to the man who believes in him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is imputed for righteousness.”
@@HillbillyBlack Nice misquoting of Augustine, bible pervert. Do you also believe what St. Augustine says here? On Grace and Free Will, 20 (426-427): This question, then, seems to me to be by no means capable of solution, unless we understand that even those good works of ours, which are recompensed with eternal life, belong to the grace of God, because of what is said by the Lord Jesus: “Without me ye can do nothing.” Jn. 15:5… We are framed, therefore, that is, formed and created, “in the good works which” we have not ourselves prepared, but “God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” It follows, then, dearly beloved, beyond all doubt, that as your good life is nothing else than God’s grace, so also the eternal life which is the recompense of a good life is the grace of God; moreover it is given gratuitously, even as that is given gratuitously to which it is given. But that to which it is given is solely and simply grace; this therefore is also that which is given to it, because it is its reward;-grace is for grace, as if remuneration for righteousness; in order that it may be true, because it is true, that God “shall reward every man according to his works.”(Mt. 16:27). NPNF1, vol. 5, pp. 451-2. Do you believe that it is our GOOD WORKS and a GOOD LIFE that is recompensed with eternal life, and not our faith alone?
Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. Psalm 34:20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken. If the King James Bible is right, in which no one has been able to disprove it, then it is impossible for a Christian to lose salvation because Jesus Christ doesn’t dismember himself and there’s no sin strong enough to separate a Christian from His body. Furthermore, God keeps His Born Again saved. 1 Peter 1:4-5 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. How can a name be erased if it is not written in the book of life in the first place, this is Jesus Christ himself talking here, according to Jesus Christ it is possible for a name being erased in the book of life,so once saved always saved, it is a false gospel indeed
You provided the answer in the first 3 words of Revelations 3:5. "He who overcomes..." Not everyone overcomes! What's so hard to understand that concept?!!!
Saying "i will not erase his name" does not mean that it must be possible to erase the name in the first place. It simply states that the name will not be erased.
@@christopherneedham9584 Christ be with you Yes it does and it implies that those who have defiled their garments with sin will be erased, otherwise there is little point in saying it. God bless you
@@MrKev1664 the very fact that you said "it implies that" means you are inferring a statement that isn't in the text. Or you are reasoning out something. There could be a reason for having a statement saying "I will not blot out his name" even if it were impossible for a name to ever be blotted out. For example, refutation of a belief that you can lose your salvation, for example. Also, trying to read into the passage anything about ones ability to tarnish their garments is incredibly disrespectful to the text here.
@@christopherneedham9584 Christ be with you No you are denying something that is easily seen in the text. In Rev 3:1-6 Jesus warns the Church of Sardis of the poor works. He tells them that the must repent for the have defiled the garments of righteousness. The only ones he singles out that the will not blot out are those who remain undefiled. The underlying reasons are given in the previous verses we don’t have to make up stories. Those who have defile their garments must cleanse them. Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. (Rev 22:14) Please read the Bible and stop trying to twist a single verse to fit you false believe. Come to Christ
The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. You can’t lose the gift because the gift didn’t come from you and if you could lose it from sin then Jesus and John would be a liar. Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. John 6:37 ESV All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:39-40 ESV And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. [40] For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." Do keep in mind that true regeneration comes with it marked behavior. And this is not a willed behavior of your own accord. This is all the causality of God. 1 John 3:9 esv/ greek interl No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he is not able to keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 1 Corinthians 12:3 ESV Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit. So we have the marked promise of salvation and the seal of salvation and the promise from Jesus of salvation and the reason why it’s secure based on what it looks like and what we are unable to do. If you’re struggling with salvation security, read Hebrews 12:4-8. Struggle with sin is the mark of salvation. God promised this salvation long before this new covenant Ezekiel 36:26-27
You can fall away from grace, but you don't have to be scared because God will always take you back, just like the father took back his ungrateful son. All you have to do is humble yourself and repent.
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40)
that is not in scripture, now show what the inspired word of God actually says, John 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.” What does the word eternal means? Everlasting! and they shall "never"" perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my Father's hand, do you see these truths? Let the words speak for themselves.
Well, you have to be saved in the first place and that would have a believer participating in a true baptism by a believer fully immersed. If you have not done that, you have not even started the journey.
Jesus Christ saved those baptized with The Holy Spirit from Original Sin. Sins committed after have to be confessed, absolved and penance served to be forgiven by God. That’s why He instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation 2 Cor 5:18-19, Jn 20:21-23, Mt 17:18, 28:18-20, 16:18-19. If you die with mortal sin you chose to be separated from God eternally. If you die with venial sin, you can be saved but only by the purge of fire. 1 Cor 3:15, Mt 5:21-26. Nothing impure can enter Heaven. Rev 21:27
very good. Just two comments: Penance, after reconciliation, can be anything your priest decides (with your consultation), it need not necessarily be prayers. Once when I confessed gluttony, he told me to go through 2 days, eating 3 healthy meals a day with no snacks, whenever I was tempted and to offer up my sufferings to God. It was a clever penance as after 48 hours I had passed that critical moment of weakness. My only other point, query really is that Rev 21:27 refers to the New Earth (after the old one has passed away). I'm sure one can find a better Scripture reference referring to us here and now, on this earth?
WHEN a born again Christian has BEEN REDEMED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST they are his 4 ever like my self. ALL my trust is in Jesus Christ ONLY not in ANY WORKS of mine
@@theodoreritola7641 We aren’t supposed to trust in our works. We’re just supposed to do His works and He will judge us accordingly. We are only saved by loving God enough to live His Commandments, Church, Sacraments, Doctrine, Teaching, having faith, doing His work, receiving His grace, love & unfathomable mercy! He taught if we don’t remain in His Church and His Doctrine that He set in His One True Apostolic Catholic Church, We DO NOT HAVE HIM. 2 Jn1:9, Rom16:17, Heb13:9, 2Thess3:6-16, Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-4 If we don’t receive His Sacraments, we will never enter Heaven. Jn 3:5, 6:51-59, 1 Cor 11:23-29, 2 Cor 5:18-20, Jn 20:21-23, Mt 18:17-18 are a few of them. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and Scribes for making their own version of His One True Church and Doctrine, just like all 44,000 other Christian Churches and other Faiths have done. Mt 23:1-39, Lk 11:37-54
trent has to take this position, because the roman catholic church is a works-based church, not fully accepting salvation is by faith through grace in Jesus Christ alone (stated clearly in the counsel of trent). if you don't do this, don't do that, you can lose your salvation, according to the roman catholic church. this is also why they have divisions of sin (venial, mortal, ect.).
The Catechism clearly teaches that we are only saved by God’s mercy, our works cannot save us. Essentially, as long as you have faith in Christ and do not die in an unrepentant state of mortal sin, you will be saved. Much love, God Bless ❤️✝️
If we could lose salvation then none of us would have salvation right now . I hate when people preach this false doctrine of condemnation!!! We WERE NEVER SAVED BY OUR OWN WORKS BUT BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS, and as the same can’t lose salvation by just sinning, meaning that Jesus sacrafice wasn’t enough to cover all sin, making him seem as though he doesn’t cover all sin when he does
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
@@HillbillyBlackat what point are we finished then? How many works? Quantify it. One sin is enough to go to hell. We all broke the law. You can't justify yourself by going back an d trying to keep it now. Judge I stole from many people but I haven't stolen in a long time so can we pretend I never stole at all?😂
John 8:10. When Jesus asked the adultress where are her accusers to condemn her? She says there was no one there, Lord (believer). Then neither will I condemn you. Go and sin 'no more'. Why would Jesus make that statement? What if she went right back to commiting adultery, a mortal sin? Are you telling me her unrepentent heart is saved? We are all sinners and Jesus grace and salvation thru his blood means we are saved, but we have to strive to be sinless and when we recognize we have sinned, repent and reconcile ourselves. He will forgive all sins.
SHE LIKE every one else needs to put all their trust in Jesus Christ only ONLYBY BELIEVING IN his death barial and resurection and He did that for them PERSONALYThen you atre born again ansd SAVED 4 EVER The words of Jesus Christ in John ch3 vs 16 CHILD LIKE FAITH ON STERIODS
How can a Catholic believe that he could lose his salvation, when he can’t know if he is saved to begin with? According to Catholic doctrine to think one is saved is a sin of presumption. So sad. 1 John 5:13, These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” King James Bible.
The parable of the sheep and the goats is blasphemy against the glorious doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved". Matthew 10:22 and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 13:21 yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away. Matthew 24:13 But anyone who endures to the end will be saved. Mark 13:13 and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
@lisafosse6031 The wording is yours, so the conception is also yours. All of us are saved through Baptism. What you do with this grace is up to you. I can passage pick too but to what end? It isn't one passage in the Bible we are supposed to follow...but all of them. BTW your passage doesn't say we are 'saved' and it doesn't say you are free to sin, and you still go to heaven- can't lose your salvation in your jargon.
"...but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;...." Jesus is the judge; not us. The sin of presumption comes from either judging others or even oneself as saved or damned; and not from being somewhat reasonably assured you are in a state of Grace (ie. saved). Catholics are taught what is necessary for Salvation, on how to form ones good conscience and how to examine ones conscience and life to see if they are living the gospel. If I do this faithfully I can be reasonably assured of my salvation; and feel confident I am doing everything Jesus has asked of me; then I can trust Jesus will judge me accordingly. You however are in a much more precarious position. Your whole Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is an unproven false man-made theology born out of the protestant rebellion of the One True Faith in recent history. Even Protestants among themselves cannot agree on this false theology. You don't even have a recognized valid authority with any connection to the early Church or the Apostles to even back up your claims. The one who is truly sad here is you!! Even the bible you use (KJV) is an error-ridden man-made concoction; so if you are using this as an 'authority'; you have real problems. Time for you to re-think the things you believe are the gospel; for in truth they are not.
listen here very careful st Paul included himself even though we all know that he was true believer who was predestined as taught on Galatians 1:15 but st Paul said (but even if "WE" thus including Paul himself) preach different gospel let him be cursed/go to hell as other versions Stated,st Paul here was aware that if he preach different gospel he himself dispite being predestined he can be cursed or in other words he can be condemned to hell,so if a true believer like Paul says like this, where you people do you take this doctrine of once saved always saved? (NIV)Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! (AMP)Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)! (GNT)Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel that is different from the one we preached to you, may he be condemned to hell! Galatians 1:15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased
John uses the word “if” about 20 times before the ending line. “If you love your brother”, “if you do not sin” etc. he’s talking about believers having confidence in their salvation if their life reflects it. He’s not saying someone is still saved if they turn away from faith or walk away. And many people do.
There is on 1 sin that God will not forgive and that us not it. Mark 3:21-29 [21]And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. [22]And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. [23]And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? [24]And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. [25]And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. [26]And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. [27]No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. [28]Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: [29]But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: HERES THE PART WHERE IT IS UNFORGIVABLE⬇️ Mark 3:30 [30]Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. Jesus Christ is not on earth now so we can't do that sin. God is omnipotent, he cannot fail. If you could lose salvation it would disgrace Jesus Christ, and The Father would never allow that. Repent and turn to the Father.
Anyone who doesn't believe in once saved always saved us damned to hell. If once saved always saved is a falsehood, why does Jesus says in John "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” Why does it say in Ephesians 1:13-14 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having BELIEVED, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the GUARANTEE of our INHERITANCE until the REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION, to the praise of His glory" And why does Paul say "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” The opposite of grace through faith is works which Paul says does not justify before God "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" The problem here is you dont actually trust Christ.
@sny8317 what do you mean? The only time "die in sin" is ever even mentioned in the Bible is when Jesus says "for if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins," so we see once again that dying in sins is simply unbelieving. They didn't believe that He was the messiah, the Son of God, it has nothing to do with actually sinning as sinning is something we do everyday whether we realize it or not. 1 john says "if any man says he is without sin, he is a liar and the truth is not in him." Understand I am not giving the green light for someone to live in sin, but what I'm saying is that thinking sin has something to do with salvation is a horrendous misunderstanding of what christ actually did on the cross. HE PAID OUR SIN DEBT!that's why he declared IT IS FINISHED, what was finished? The payment for sin! That's why faith alone is the only option, because you are just trusting what he did for you that it worked, and after you believe ephesians says you are "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION" that is a definite statement with no caviot or wiggle room. To say you can lose salvation is to imply that salvation was earned by you somehow, and now you have to earn it back which makes no sense because JESUS did everything. Again ephesians says salvation is "NOT OF YOURSELVES it is a GIFT of God not of WORKS."
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@@jsam1997 its a gift of the divine favour in the salvation of sinners, and the divine influence operating in individuals for their regeneration and sanctification.
The question I have is how could a christian just leave and not want to return? That's why this doesn't make sense because I true christian biblically is one who is guarded for salvation through faith, god the father, the son, and the holy spirit working in that person. There is no way that person can casually leave and fall away, is this what your saying? But the real question is and that it comes down to is can the true christian have a chance to return or be renewed if they have sinned greatly and no it? Or is there a sin that leads to the loss of repentance and damnation?
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@HillbillyBlack I agree for the most part, but to say that because we're born again, we won't sin. Doesn't that make it works again? Doesn't God give us free will? And does God allow his Holly name to be outraged by someone who knows him personally and by whom God knows all their thoughts and they no it? If God is holly isn't there have to be a place we're we put ourselves in danger again under sin? Otherwise what's the point of all the scripture pointing us to christ and to endure in him. I only say this because I myself was born again walking in obedience to God and believed everything your saying. I greatly grieved the Holy spirit and myself and fell away I'm no longer walking in fellowship with God the way I was because he was holy and I strayed I didn't want to submit everything to him. So God is not one to be played with I've seen.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
@HillbillyBlack thanks so much for the reply. Please read all this. I'll try and make it quick? I plead and tell you I once walked that walk, please belive me. I was growing in the Lord, and so was my assurance and fruit in my life. I was saved radically from my old life of complete chaos, skizofrenia, and utter darkness. Were i didnt know if i was god at one moment or if someone was trying to kill me the next because my trust for humans had become nothing. Including my own parents. When I was dead to god, god made me spiritually alive in him he did a permanent work in my heart he gave me the love of christ that satisfied me. and i had the same belief and full assurance as you are expressing in your writing now. I fully believed god would never leave me, and i was strong in fellowship with brothers in christ, and we mutilually encouraged one another in our walk daily. I was called and had a great future ahead of me. I hade the peace of god wich surpasses understanding. But, i started doing things in the world like watching worldy movies and not giving god my all. The holy spirit was by no means quit he was always there showing me my sin and Christ's love every time i disobeyed him. Until one day i started looking at porn because of the stress i was under in my walk. God came to me about the fifth time viewing it and made it clear to me what i was doing if i continued in that sin one more time. I new i would be putting myself under the influence of sin by taking that one more step and making that choice against god and that god would leave me. But out of fear i blocked my spirituall ears and did it anyway. now I have no evidence of the spirit in my life since I fell away 9 years ago. So I'm convinced when I disobeyed gods word I lost salvation as evidence that I have been able to live the flesh and not understand the things of God since I was saved. I canot confess first john 1 nine and belive it in my heart the way I could before. I completely went astray and it was night and day between the two realities. Can a christian live in sin? No gods spirit is in them. So as evidence that I fell away I could entertain sin without the same fear of God i had before that kept me safe in christ. The fear I have now is not the fear of God that leads to life but just dredd and shame. I hope you belive what I'm saying. Do you belive I fell away?
Judas Iscariot appeared to be a true Christian for 3+ years. He appeared every bit as genuine as the other 11 Disciples did. Yet he never really was truly saved!
@@treasuresrelieffoundationThey were held to the old covenant at the time and he was following it. He'd of gone to Heaven up until the point where he made the conscious decision to not be a good person.
@@treasuresrelieffoundationJesus died for everyone, even before His death. I thought this was widely known among all Christians. Salvation was retroactive and it depended on the knowledge these past people could have. Hebrews 11 & 12 mention several Old Testament figures being saved. The thief on the cross was saved.
Judas Iscariot was never truly saved. He was hard hearted and wanted things to go his way. He literally turned his back on Jesus. He fell into the hands of the enemy.
Nothing can separate is from God's love. The context is his saving love. John says he was never of us. So though they claimed to believe, they never believed like true believers. There is a difference between a faith that God gives us vs a faith that comes from ourselves. Our faith is not capable of truly believing in all situations. As you used the example of the seeds, real faith, that which is a gift from God, will endure. Those whose faith comes from within, will eventually fail.
When someone is truly saved they can't lose their Salvation. The natural response from the recipient is to do good works. Sanctification and fruit producing will happen in their life, Repentance and faith in Jesus. We are saved by His grace through Jesus Christ. They will endure in their faith until the end. If someone backslides like we all do, the truly saved end up always coming back and enduring. If someone falls away forever they were never truly saved. We receive a new heart, reborn, when truly saved. That new heart desires his righteousness. The natural response to a truly saved person is good works. Good works isn't what saves you. Its the response of receiving Salvation. We love Him therefore we obey Him. None of us could live up to the his moral law. We broke God's law. Jesus paid the fine. Many people say they are saved but they fall away and fruits were never produced. They were not truly saved. The seed did not take root. Through our working out of Salvation, we aren't sinless but we sin LESS
Gods grace is sufficient for us. It is He who took initiation because we cant as fallen being. Nothing in this world can separate us from Him. Accepting christ as lord and savior means denying oneself and following him. Not simply believing and making confession because emotionally drifted. Demons also believes in Jesus as Christ. Most drifted away never accepted him as Lord and savior which is following him. He demanded people to repent/ turn around from their wickedness and follow him. Thats why it seems many people are losing salvation. Never underestimate the power of Gods grace.
John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments. We have to live for God by following His Commandments, Teaching and receive The Sacraments He instituted to get into Heaven. Jesus said unless we eat of His Body and drink His Blood In Holy Communion, we will never enter Heaven, we will have no life us. Jn 6:52-59
Where is Jesus speaking in John 52-59? It wasn't at the last supper. He was teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Ask your priest how can he reconcile (Hebrews 9:22) with the Eucharist. "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin." The catechism says, the Eucharist forgives sin (Catechism 1393). But it's an unbloody sacrifice. See the dilemma 😫. What are your thoughts? Thank you.
@@Disciple793 Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the Holy Spirit has offered himself, immaculate, to God, cleanse our conscience from dead works, in order to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:15 And thus he is the Mediator of the new testament, so that, by his death, he intercedes for the redemption of those transgressions which were under the former testament, so that those who have been called may receive the promise of an eternal inheritance. Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is confirmed by death. Otherwise, it as yet has no force, as long as the one who testifies lives. Hebrews 9:18 Therefore, indeed, the first was not dedicated without blood. 1 Corinthians 11:23 For I have received from the Lord what I have also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus, on the same night that he was handed over, took bread, 1 Corinthians 11:24 and giving thanks, he broke it, and said: “Take and eat. This is my body, which shall be given up for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 1 Corinthians 11:25 Similarly also, the cup, after he had eaten supper, saying: “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 1 Corinthians 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord, until he returns. 1 Corinthians 11:27 And so, whoever eats this bread, or drinks from the cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be liable of the body and blood of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and, in this way, let him eat from that bread, and drink from that cup. 1 Corinthians 11:29 For whoever eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks a sentence against himself, not discerning it to be the body of the Lord. Luke 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks and broke it and gave it to them, saying: “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this as a commemoration of me.” Luke 22:20 Similarly also, he took the chalice, after he had eaten the meal, saying: “This chalice is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you. Hebrews 9:22 reconciles to ***The Eucharist as The Passion of Christ was bloody. His sacrifice was not blood of goats and cows, but His own precious blood therefore attaining eternal redemption. If you have further questions visit CatholicAnswers online or consult a Catholic Priest. I see you have no content on your account and I don’t discuss anything with bots.
@@777atys6 Our Lords Commandments are the ones given to Moses and Gods Church. You cannot pick verses out of context to fit your narrative. There’s interesting articles on the subject @ Catholic Answers online.
@@southernlady1109 Read Acts 15:5 King James Version 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the LAW of Moses These pharasis were trying to put a yoke of bondage on the new believers, and they were tempting God by doing this, because they wanted them to keep these commandments read the rest of the verses to verse 10... see for yourself. Now Let us see what Commandments Jesus is talking about; Matthew 12:30-31 30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 1 John 3:23 King James Version 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Well, actually, in the parable of the sower of seed, there is only one seed that bore fruit, which is the evidence of salvation. The shallow soil response and the seed that was choked out, never grew to maturity and never bore fruit. Likewise, when the wheat and tares grow up together, tares may look like wheat, but they are in fact not wheat, and God will separate them out. 🙏
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
A true Christian cannot lose their salvation. If it’s not by our own works that we become saved, then it’s not by our own works to lose our salvation. Those who were never really Christian’s can lose their “salvation” cause they never really believed
@@dailyprojections7197 bro, show me one verse that’s not out of context showing we can actually lose ur salvation, and don’t bring up the “I never knew you” because those people NEVER knew him, it didn’t say you did know me then u fell away, read Roman’s where it says those who have been called, have been predestined, those who have been predestined have been justified, those who have been justified will be glorified. We are PREDESTINED to be saved, don’t get me wrong we still have free will but god also knows who’s saved and who isn’t. There’s no scripture showing we can lose salvation
100% Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
I think the issue here is that people have different definitions for "losing your salvation". What Trent describes as losing salvation sounds like walking away from it to me. Losing salvation implies that it's gone for good for a lot of people, which isn't so.
the sinner thats BORN AGAIN CAN NEVER UN LOSE THIER REDEMPTION PERIOD, OSAS IS THE GOSPEL IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT GO TELL JESUS CHRIST HIS BLOOD IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH,I KNOW,,,, I HAVE ,,,,,BEEN PASTENCE BEEN REDEEMED IT IS FINISHED OUT OF THE MOTH OF MY REDEEMER THE LORD JESUS CHRIST MY PERSONAL HERO
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. (John 10:28-29)
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40)
@@MasterKeyMagic you don’t have to have a Calvinist interpretation. The scripture speaks for itself. God saves for His glory, and no one can thwart His work
@@matthewodonnell6495 Thats not what the text says though. And if you make the claim that the Bible does not contradict itself, it can't mean irresistible grace. No one can take away your salvation except you.
If at any point in time you have eternal life......and then somehow lose it later you never had it since it is eternal and whoever told you this was lying.......
100% Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@@JrVargas13 ecome children of God-- John 5:24 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi3880 👉 EZEKIEL 18:24 Romans 6:13-15 Philippians 2:12-13 John 14:15 Matt 7:21 Matthew 24:13 Our battle on earth is real, and don't be assuming your saved while we are still here in this world. 👉 Ephesians 6 12
@Jesus Christ Is My Lord And Savior The parable of the sheep and the goats is blasphemy against the glorious doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved". Matthew 10:22 and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 13:21 yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away. Matthew 24:13 But anyone who endures to the end will be saved. Mark 13:13 and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi3880 are you reading the bible passage as a whole or your just plain 🍒🍒 verses that would make you feel better?🧐🧐 Plain and simple... Those can't keep God's commandments will perish.. Because our actions speaks loudest than words.. 👉 James 2: 14, 21, 24, 26 Romans 2:13 All Followers of Christ follow all His commandments, they didn't just sit back and relax and just listen to the word of God, But rather a doer.
@@LuminousTwinHearts 1 John 11-12 "And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life." I understand from the words "gave" and "eternal" that it was given in the past, and it is eternal, so it never ends. How am I to understand differently?
@@LuminousTwinHearts Ephesians 1:11-14 "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." I also understand from the words "predestined" here and "sealed" that it is a permanent thing. How am I to understand differently?
We have to identify what salvation is. Salvation is the restoration of the Holy Spirit of God, first lost when Adam sinned, to those who are born again of the Spirit of God through faith in Jesus Christ. And because of the eternal redemption of the cross there is no sin that will result in God removing His life from us. Therefore, we have eternal life. A life that carries us while we are alive, through death, and for eternity. That's why we cannot lose our salvation.
Perfectly said brother The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. You can’t lose the gift because the gift didn’t come from you and if you could lose it from sin then Jesus and John would be a liar. Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. John 6:37 ESV All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:39-40 ESV And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. [40] For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." Do keep in mind that true regeneration comes with it marked behavior. And this is not a willed behavior of your own accord. This is all the causality of God. 1 John 3:9 esv/ greek interl No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he is not able to keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 1 Corinthians 12:3 ESV Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit. So we have the marked promise of salvation and the seal of salvation and the promise from Jesus of salvation and the reason why it’s secure based on what it looks like and what we are unable to do. If you’re struggling with salvation security, read Hebrews 12:4-8. Struggle with sin is the mark of salvation. God promised this salvation long before this new covenant Ezekiel 36:26-27
No psalm 89 says if messiah's children walk not in my statutes and judgments sin. I'll chasten but not utterly remove my kindness! Show that to your teachers. I won't remove my kindness even if they sin. Grace heaven is a gift to those who believe
A false convert is someone who claims to be saved but they become Apostate by leaving the faith. A true saved believer cannot lose their salvation. Peter was a Apostate by denying Jesus. Judas Iscariot was never saved from the beginning. When you are saved you are sealed until redemption.
Amen The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. You can’t lose the gift because the gift didn’t come from you and if you could lose it from sin then Jesus and John would be a liar. Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. John 6:37 ESV All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:39-40 ESV And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. [40] For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." Do keep in mind that true regeneration comes with it marked behavior. And this is not a willed behavior of your own accord. This is all the causality of God. 1 John 3:9 esv/ greek interl No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he is not able to keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 1 Corinthians 12:3 ESV Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit. So we have the marked promise of salvation and the seal of salvation and the promise from Jesus of salvation and the reason why it’s secure based on what it looks like and what we are unable to do. If you’re struggling with salvation security, read Hebrews 12:4-8. Struggle with sin is the mark of salvation. God promised this salvation long before this new covenant Ezekiel 36:26-27
@@BaronVonPwn well yeah, you always have the ability to return and have a relationship with god. But you cannot have a relationship with god if you do not accept his word and go against it without repenting
Cause my friend we want to please God but believers still sin look at Peter Jesus said if you deny knowing him he'll deny you what did Peter do he denied knowing Jesus 3 times back to back but do you think he lost he's salvation no cause he repented we have to keep burying the old man every day as Paul said
@@jessebrown149 I was not asking. I know you CAN lose your salvation! If you are called by Father and chose not to endure 'til the end, you think you still have a crown waiting on you in the kingdom?
@2ch.thenazaritelifestyle I know I do and jesus himself said u can't lose your salvation how can a person lose something they can't give their self only jesus can give salvation and he's the only one who can take it the disciples sinned after they were save so did Paul do you think they went to hell I don't think so
1 Cor 12:3 establishes that no one can say, "Jesus is Lord" except by the Spirit. It seems to me very difficult to explain how it could be the case that some one like Derek Webb, a former lead singer for a Christian band who announced his apostasy publicly, was never saved in the first place. I haven't scoured his recordings or statements to see if he ever claimed Jesus is Lord, but it seems absurd to speculate that he never did or that he never evinced other fruits of the Spirit. It's admittedly a very simplistic argument. Derek is still with us and it remains to be seen whether he will return, however his statements about waiting for God to cause him to return are tragic. This is by no means the strongest argument against ES, but it does cast some doubt on the validity of that view, in my opinion.
anyone can profess that Jesus is Lord, they just can't confess it without the Spirit of Christ in them. Read the context in scripture. This is why devils cannot confess that Jesus is the Saviour our redeemer the Messiah. But they can surely call him Son of the Most High,
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
@HillbillyBlack there's no assurance of salvation in so-called reformed theology because for all you know, you could be a reprobate whom God is deceiving into believing that you are elect for His purposes and you won't find out until the judgement. Derek Webb most likely professed by the Spirit that Christ is Lord and over time, due to being consistent with his erroneous theology, hardened his heart and apostatized.
@@AndrewKeifer God doesn’t deceive nor is he the author of confusion. 1 John 4:7 ESV Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Salvation is a behavioral regeneration. 1 John 4:9 ESV In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. Love is manifested by God. Those saved are compelled to natural christian behavior. Salvation is a blood covered righteousness. Not a self effort righteousness through Christ. Additionally all those hardened in scripture are hardened from a non regenerate state. In other words, scripture never describes believers hardening to apostasy. In context, jesus is speaking to unbelieving Pharisees who were unbelieving already.
Here’s the big dilemma…- how can Jesus say “i never knew you” in a world where mortal sin and reconciliation can make one flip flop in and out of salvation? The statement is “never knew you” but salvation is knowing him. if you can lose salvation, then for a time you “knew” jesus then didn’t thus making the “never knew you” claim a lie.
The Bible talks about deadly sins (which separate you from God) and not so deadly sins (which don't separate you from God). We're not flip flopping in and out of salvation. All we have to do is not commit a deadly sin and if we do, we need to repent. It's actually not that hard, if a saved Christian.
@@clivejames5058 I dont read much conflict with salvation security in the Patristic Fathers. I don’t suspect it was a topic of conversation back then. Most Catholics say that eternal security was a recent development. I think those for and against Christ were more obvious in Ancient church given the level of persecution compared to today. It’s harder to tell who’s truly saved and who isn’t in the first world country, no? But if you’re actively on the run in the persecuted church, those willing to go to their death, as scripture proclaims, are more obvious. The sheep and the goats stand out more. allow me to make the case John 5:24 - Jesus Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and BELIEVES him who sent me HAS eternal life. He DOES NOT come into judgment, but HAS PASSED from death to life. Notice the finality of this statement. “Has eternal life”. Can someone have eternal life then lose it? “Does not come into judgment but - has passed - from DEATH to LIFE”. Can one pass to life then retrace back and pass back into death? All of scripture shows we are dead in sin, hostile to God and then “made alive”. So then can we be made “dead” again in sin and return to hostility with God? Scripture says NO. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. There is very little human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@@clivejames5058 Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@@clivejames5058 When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
The bible says "he who has begun a good work in you will be faithful to finish it unto the day of the Lord Jesus Christ" whatever God starts he finishes then do you see God saying "oh I started saving that human and now ive changed my mind I think I will condemn them instead" yet bible says "therefore there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus" and "Its not in Gods will that any should perish" and as for sin "it is not I who sin but sin that dwells in me" and "if sin abounds grace abounds also" then this - Christians dont go to hell as long as they are not christian flavoured satanists aka satanists aka wolves in sheeps clothing. If you dont want to be a wolf in sheeps clothing and you really want to be saved and want to please God then you are more than likely saved . It is impossible to please God without faith bible says so and we are saved by faith not by the law Abels faith sacrifice offering pleased God whereas Cain's law abiding did not kill plant sacrifice offering did not please God and Cain zealous for the law and angry with his brother for murdering the animal sacrifice which was a kill not murder then made Cain commit murder which a correlation can be found from legalistic so called christians offering the law (plants) then wanting to kill christians salvations that are by faith(symbolic of Abels faith offering) by saying "you are not saved by faith" often these are angry enough to kill or at least condemn like Cain. You cant evangelise properly if you have not got Gods gift of salvation. Which it is a gift Gods precious amazing gift and if you tried evangelising this way "Id like to ask you if you would receive Christ and maybe be saved, because you could lose your salvation we dont really know" does that not sound stupid? So if you evangelise and you know that once you have recieved salvation you well and truely have it which is why its wonderful and an awesome gift then you can evangelise and see people come to Christ explaining that the gift is so good you can know you are saved. Christians come to Christ because God puts it in their will to be saved he gives them the desire to be saved so that its God that has saved them otherwise they have saved themselves which is impossible it is only by Christ you can be saved and God will not give his glory to another.
So nothing in all of creation , not powers ,principalites nothing except the almighty self can snatch someone out of the Father's Hand , The Word clearly says that we have been given the earnest ( deposit ) of the Holy Spirit until we come into our full inheritance , so if a true christian can loose their salvation then God would cease to be God as the third Person of the Holy Trinity would cease ( or be forfeit )
This person completely misses the point of being regenerated by God’s eternal life. If we are children of God, regenerated by Him through our faith in Christ and accepting His redemptive work on the cross, then we have God's eternal life within us and cannot lose that life; otherwise, it wouldn’t be eternal. Therefore, we cannot face perdition-we are saved from it-because that life, by definition, cannot perish. Consider what God did right after Adam's fall: He shielded eternal life from him. Why? Because if Adam had partaken of it, he would have lived forever in his terrible, fallen, and unredeemed state. That would have been eternal suffering. Now, however, we are redeemed through Christ's sacrifice on the cross and, thanks to that, by having received the eternal life of God we are fully saved both from the sufferings and from perdition.
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
John 1:12 KJV "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" I Stand for my Faith that You cannot lose your Salvation!
@@MasterKeyMagic Hello there Brother but the Bible said in Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" "Not of works, lest any man should boast." So Salvation is definitely not of Works! It's about the Finished Work of Jesus Christ in the Cross❤
@@ralphadriandeleon8400 Except thats not what it means. If you read the whole bible, you'll come to the same conclusion the authors of the bible did. which is NOT faith alone. do you know a book better than its own authors?
@@ralphadriandeleon8400We we’re saved by Faith but If You sin then you’re disconnected from God ; Repent and Be connected again otherwise you will also perish
And no, if someone claims regeneration, and then goes and lives like a devil, they were never saved to begin with. You will know them by their fruit. And fruit is a persevering quality that continues to the end. I don’t believe there’s anything called backslidden state in the church. I don’t think it’s even possible if you’re truly in Christ. A believer can come to deep deep, wrong sin yes like fornication or adultery, but that doesn’t invalidate salvation. The beleiver will come back. The believer will experience great turmoil from That Sin. Hebrews 12:5-8 Trent, what I hear from you constantly is human logic or fathers logic trying to understand that what you probably don’t have, which is the Holy Spirit. I don’t mean this mean. The fact of the matter is every Catholic that relies on church history to justify themselves or their church Misses the point of the revelation of the Holy Spirit. As a born-again believer in Christ, only 13 months now, I can tell you that the revelation of Christ has aligned me effortlessly with reformed theology without being guided or leaned on or pushed or influenced whatsoever. When I read scripture , and I let scripture speak for itself, it does not read like a Catholic Bible. The Bible, holy scripture, written by the apostles, reads like a man stranded on an island, realizing the grace sovereignty of God. The Catholic will never understand us, until they understand the sovereignty of God. Strive to enter the narrow gate for many will try and fail.
So You’re saying that If someone Has Has been regenerated then He can never disobey God ; Come on man stop lying ; We have the choice whether to Obey Him or disobey Him and We will get the Consequences Thereof ; Either You will Obey Yourself to please yourself or You will deny Yourself and Obey God
@@DrJacob-z6l being a follower of Christ in a true regenerated state benefits the believer the capacity to feel the subjected saturated influences of the Holy Spirit. Within this state, a believer can choose to obey or disobey. The difference between unregenerate and regenerate is that simple. What is your relationship with sin? When you are a true believer in Christ, you are a son of God. You are subjected to the discipline of God through conviction, and sometimes life punishment. But just because you’re subjected to the punishment of God does not mean that you’re in danger of losing salvation. Much of the Catholic Church reinterpret scripture to fit tradition rather than taking in scripture contextually. Not all of Rome is in error, but when it comes to the salvific standards of the gospel, Rome falls short. An example, 1st John 5:16. Go read that, but paraphrasing it says to not pray for the individual whose sin leads to death. If you isolate this verse from the context of the book/letter of 1st John, you can dogmatically inflate this statement to mean, whatever you want. However, if you read the entire letter within context, it’s clear that John is speaking dynamically of the nature of sin, in relation to those who are believers and unbelievers. The key, the catalyst, is understanding which verse pertains to who what when and where. In the second chapter, John speaks of those who went out from us who are not really of us. Then John concludes in chapter 5 the reason they were not of us is because they were committing a sin that leads to death. This sin is apostasy spoken of by Christ to the Pharisees, called blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Send that leads to death is not mortal sin, but rather rejection of Christ. If you study scripture long enough in its entirety, including the Torah, you will notice that all sin is mortal, for all sin causes us to fall short of the glory of God. Paul says The wages of sin is DEATH. John speaks of the Sin that leads to DEATH. Its about scriptural consistency. How do we escape the Death sin yields??? Christ took care of sin on the cross. He became sin so that in him we might know righteousness. This is not righteousness of ourselves, or righteousness of works best effort, but rather righteousness of imputation. We obey God as a result of a state of grace, rather than to earn or maintain Grace moment by moment. Lastly, there are NO eternal consequences of disobeying God beyond lack of reward. There are only corporeal consequences on earth. Romans 8:1 says there is now therefore, no condemnation, (as in no hell) for those who are in Christ Jesus. No eternal consequence, no need to clean yourself up to be worthy of heaven in purgatory, the work is done. If you understand Romans, you’ll understand very quickly that sin is not attached to the spirit but of the flesh. When we die, we do not take the flesh with us. Therefore, there is nothing to clean up in heaven. As believers we are in constant battle between the spirit and the flesh. It is the flesh that sins where ad the spirit is cleansed by the Holy Spirit of God and made blameless through the imputation of Christ, making us righteous through his righteous covering. Sin does not follow us past the grave. Obedience is a result, not something you do to keep. Romans is clear that all of our works yield a do it is outside of salvation. Romans 4:4-5 ESV Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. [5] And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, We are made justified by faith and Faith yields results, but results do not justify us. The lawlessness of mankind is made perfect by faith for those who are truly repentant in Christ Jesus. Romans 4:7-8 ESV "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; [8] blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin." To echo, Romans 8:1, sin can no longer be counted against the individual who is in Christ Jesus. And buddy, let me tell you, believers in Christ probably send more often than unbelievers but the ones and they don’t commit is rejection of Christ, which makes all the difference. Believers should strive to sin less, but salvation is not contingent upon doing so
@@DrJacob-z6l When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
Salvation is a Covenant by God, not a contract with man. Jesus says that the new Testament is in His blood, it is a covenant vow made by the blood of God (Acts 20:28). (Testament literally means “Covenant” in the original Greek - The Old and New Covenant/Testament) Luke 22:20) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. 1Corinthians 11:25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. Hebrews 12:24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. John 1:12-13) "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." - not by our blood, but the blood of God. Not by our will or power, but only of God. As Jesus said "no man can pluck you out of my hand" that means you cannot pluck yourself out either - not by your will. You cannot walk away/give up the faith (become unsaved again). 2 Timothy 2:13) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Salvation is not about what we do or keep or abstain from, it is solely based on what you have believed. 1John 5:13) "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." As it says "THAT YE MAY KNOW" absolute assurance of your salvation, and this is because you have believed. John 1:13) "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." It has nothing to do with our abilities of anything, salvation is only by the power of God which comes upon us when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 10:9-10) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Acts 10:43) To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. Ephesians 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise John 3:16-17) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 1 John 5:20) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. John 1:13) “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” Eph 1:7 / Acts 10:43 / Eph 1:13 & 4:30 / Salvation is a free gift, no maintenance, no earning of favor, and once given it cannot be taken away. Ephesians 4:30) "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."- if we do grieve Him we just confess and we are cleansed. The Father doesn't disown the wayward child, but like the prodigal son the goodness of God leads us to repentance and cleansing - When did the prodigal son cease to be a son of the Father? Salvation is NOT by works, NOT by righteous works, NOT by deeds of the law, and NOT by sight. But by Faith alone, through Grace alone, by Jesus Christ who is God alone - Titus 3:5 / Ephesians 2:8-9 / Galatians 2:16 / 2 Corinthians 5:7 / Romans 1:17 / Romans 6:14 / Hebrews 10:38. Romans 10:9-10) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” After believing and repenting you are sealed/saved, then because of your love for Christ you want to follow Him. Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30 - It's not because you have to but because you want to. Any idea of self merit affecting salvation in earning to gain, maintaining to keep, or self atonement for sins is heresy and the person is not saved. The same goes for believing that Baptism saves, forgives, or seals with the Spirit - it's still a belief in a form of righteous works that affects salvation - this is heresy too. It's all through Christ's merit on the Cross and His Resurrection, or else through attempting in your own merit you earn Hell. And this Salvation can never be lost or taken away - Romans 8:1 no condemnation unto those in Christ. Any sin after that brings chastisement, not disowning or a casting away. John 15:1-6 is paired with 1Cor 5:1-5 / Psalm 66:18 / Prov 28:9 / James 1:6-7 nowhere does it relate to losing salvation or having it being taken away. James 2 is not talking about works to keep your salvation, but rather it's talking to Christians already saved, and it's talking about charity and Christian behavior for promotion of the faith, not maintenance of salvation. If James is talking about maintaining salvation then Apostle Paul is a liar. Matthew 24 is speaking about the end of days and the trials and tribulations that will occur. "endure to the end" is in reference to the Great Tribulation, as it is a limited time and will soon be over and those under persecution will be saved from the oppression. It is not a salvationary passage, Christ is not talking about salvation but rather persecution. It's the same context as the other passage that says how a woman will be saved in child bearing - talking about the pains and troubles. Hebrews 6:4-6 and 10:26 is speaking about the unsaved falling away (rejecting) enlightenment, the knowledge of , the taste of salvation - they had not yet taken hold. This does not relate to the saved giving up or losing salvation as many think. Losing Salvation, or it being taken away, given up - denotes a working to keep it. But it's not by works or righteous works, deeds of the law, or by sight. It's by Grace alone through Faith alone. Matthew 7:21-23) "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Nowhere do they say "have we not believed on thy name?". They were trusting in their works, righteous works, and law keeping. They were depending on religiosity and Christian behavior to earn their salvation like all the cults do. Salvation is purely by grace through faith by belief alone - Eph 2:8-9 / Titus 3:5 / Gal 2:16 / Romans 10:9-10 / Acts 16:30-31 / Eph 1:7&13 / 1 John 5:13 / John 3:16 / John 3:3 / Mark 1:15 Furthermore, what is “the will of my Father”? As we see in John 6 - John 6:28-29) "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:39-40) “And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Doing the will of the Father is not doing works, keeping commandments, or law keeping, but is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation. We are not called to the will of works, but are called to believing faith. Now true believing faith will produce fruit of works but it’s not the works that inherit salvation. The reason that Christ says “I never knew you” is because the people were focusing on the religion and not the faith. They thought the religion was the faith, but true believing faith will produce “pure religion undefiled”. Misconstruing religiosity with faith by grace leads to damnation, and this is the ultimate work of Satan to cause a misfocus within the Churches - preaching from the pulpit to create multitudes of religious damned who think themselves to be the very children of God.
Justification before God is by Faith in Christ and not by works Isaiah 53:11) “He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.” Acts 15:9-11) “And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” Romans 4:25) “Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.” Galatians 3:10-13) “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:” John 1:17) “For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” Romans 10:3-4) “For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” Romans 5:1-2) “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” Titus 3:5-7) “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” 1Corinthians 1:29-31) “That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 6:11) “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” Rom 3:23-28) “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 8:30) “Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Philippians 3:9) “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:” Gal 2:16-21) “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Galatians 3:21-29) “Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Romans 11 is about the jews being cut off from salvation and salvation coming to the gentile. Read the whole chapter. Context is your friend. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
You have failed to wrestle with Scripture. This subject is not easy and takes a lot of work to gain harmony with text that seem to go in different directions. This is the duty of all believers who take the Word of God seriously.
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
only in the gospel of the circumcision do you have to endure!! not in the body of christ, the most Carnel believer who put his trust in the death burial and resurrection, who willfully sins until his death is just as righteous as the first day he believed why because its Christ righteousness we are given, imputed , counted to us , not our own , you cant be righteous enough to get to heaven with out the righteousness of Christ imputed you! and if your ability to be righteous is what your saying gets you in , then your denying the tru way in which is his blood his sacrifice his good works his righteousness credited our account imputed to us by faith! Titus3:5 He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. Romans1:17 For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “ The righteous will live by faith.” Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, Romans 4:6 And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him… Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus Romans 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. John3:15-17 that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.… John6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. colossians1:20 and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross. psalm103:10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins or repaid us according to our iniquities. psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us. 2 corrin 5:19 For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.
I dont think you understand the work of the Holy Spirit in the heart and life of the one who believes. You my friend should hear the Gospel and genuine faith that saves
I live with someone that claims she believes and is saved by the Holy Spirit because she was saved. She also gets angry she can’t control her anger. She pretty much cursed her dad out. But she is a big John MacArthur fan and thinks she is saved, Luke tells us we can see it in them A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh, Luke 6:45. Again maybe you are different by that saved by faith thing is the biggest lie Satan has ever given to anyone. Why because it deceives people to truly believe that’s all you need. No wonder the so called early colonial Americans befriended the Indians and gave them blankets with small pox. The manifest destiny since it was gods will for wealthy Americans to be even wealthier. Are we saved by faith alone. Yes. Notice the word saved. Is that indicate present and future tense. If you were saved from getting bitten by a dog today does that mean from now on you will continue to be saved from all dogs. Nope! Now the way you versed your comment I don’t doubt one bit you are truly with the Holy Spirit I know how it feels it’s amazing it over flows nothing and I mean nothing will make you sad, you put your trust in him. At the same time it just makes people like. My friend believe even though their actions of using drugs and doing mean things completely contradict your philosophy
This man is allowing Satan ti use him in tormenting those who's faith is weak. To all those I say ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED because God is the one Who insures your salvation, not you. Stop seeing God as unable to hold on to you. There are many scriptures if you will search the Bible that show you this.
@@JrVargas13 replying to your other thread replying to axxe 2 tim 2:12-13 is not talking about if predicated upon choice. If - εἰ - a conditional participle conjunction - a condition of circumstance. Of existence. “If you have a banana, it has potassium“ If in scripture from greek it’s not talking about freewheel choice. “If you are this you will do this.” The same goes for John 4 - John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." In the Greek it is “the one drinking” - not “whoever” There is no free will in those dead and sin beyond the will to commit continual practice sin. John 10:28 indicates zero ability that self can snatch one self out of the father‘s hand. In fact there’s not a single scripture that says self can exit the father‘s hands. This would imply human will is greater than the saving power of God. Paul said - For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. “nor anything else in all creation” includes SELF. John said - 1 John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he is unable keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. And Jesus said - John 8:12 "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." Again whoever here in the Greek is - ὁ ἀκολουθῶν - the one following - which is an active measure of existence not an either war of choice. Those bourne of God are in capable of practicing sin and walking in darkness. Where you’re getting tripped up is the distinction of those who call themselves Christians and those who are truly redeemed. Take John 15 as an example Notice Jesus words of those cast out, cut off, burned up. John 15:2 - Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away… John 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. Both instances we see a one sided scenario with both producing nothing. Now, Noticed the distinction between that reality versus those Jesus kept and the deciding factor between them. John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you…. 2 factor difference now. Singular abiding does nothing, produces nothing. 15:4 - continued - …As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, “By itself”, notice that??? If we are in Christ alone but Christ is not in us we bear zero Fruit and are cast out. We are a branch claiming the vine without being in the vine. This is a person who has tasted of the heavenly gifts and the spirit of God. This is a self-professed Christian without redemption. This is someone aware of the truth but without receiving grace through faith. Cross ref- Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. This is someone aware of the truth but without receiving grace through faith. You could call this easy believe-ism or Eucharist only participators. It is someone who knows of God without regeneration. The heart has not changed. 15:4 - continued - As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. We must abide in Christ and Christ in us therefore the true regenerate changes one of the causality of God rather than self proclamation of self belief. True regenerate election is supernatural. God spoke to the prophet Ezekiel of the coming salvation of the New Age. Ezekiel 36:26-27 - God And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. It is God that gives, it is God that removes the old, it is God that places the spirit within and it is God that causes the redeemed to not walk in darkness but in the light.
@@JrVargas13 faith is always key because if you have faith in Christ you wouldn't turn your back on him .. if the devil had faith in Christ he wouldn't done wat he did
Sorry but scripture just doesn’t back up what you’re saying on the topic of salvation. I can literally list dozens of verses and I don’t have time to do that so I’ll just put the most irrefutable verse out there “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.” - John. 10:27-29 No man, as in no person (men or women) are able to take away anyone’s salvation not even our own. Who am I? The Father is greater than all of us and His love will out grace our sins should we choose to accept the free gift of salivation that was promised by God who cannot lie (Romans 6:23, Titus 1:1-3)
"My sheep hear my voice and they FOLLOW ME" so sheep's of Jesus are followers so you not sheep of God if u don't abide in him and we abide in christ by the law. John 15 4 abide in me and I will abide in you"
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Romans 11:22 KJV. keyword "IF" so it says you will be cut off unless you continue in his goodness you will be cut off. So your grafted in the tree by grace through faith but if you don't abide in God you will be cut off
@@imjustheresoiwontgetfined3890 Jesus says no one will be able to snatch them (sheep) out of His Father’s hands, His father is stronger than us all. Are you suggesting that the sheep are stronger than the Father? John 15:1-8 is talking about discipleship, NOT salvation. Romans 11:22 is not talking about the Church of believers it’s talking about the Jews who rebelled against God and killed Jesus. Clearly you and your Catholic friends along with your lordship salvation friends are desperate to pull out anything to discredit the real gospel.
Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt. Hebrews 10:26 If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins.
@Jesus Christ Is My Lord And SaviorDo not be deceived, unfortunately the bible very clearly teaches otherwise. Just like Adam and Eve, we have to be tested and proven worthy of the kingdom of God. In your understanding, we are all saved and thus we are all going to heaven even those who reject or have rejected the blood sacrifice of Christ for the remission of their sins. There is then no distinction between Christian habitual sinners and ungodly sinners. God would be unfair to pardon a habitual Christian sinner and yet condemn an ungodly sinner; God shows no favoritism. Don't forget that even the demons believe and tremble. Where do you think is Judas who betrayed Jesus? If by the grace of God you do not try to overcome sin unfortunately, sin and death will completely engulf you. Eternal security is a lie of the devil. In your eyes there is no judgment of the living and the dead since on your own authority you've already proclaimed yourself innocent and a saint and according to your logic we're all going to heaven anyway. God is not dumb!
Hebrews 6:4-6 - (After the "enlightened" [baptized] fall away, they cannot be enlightened again.) Hebrews 10:26 - (No sacrifice for sins after deliberate sin after knowing the truth)
He’s talking to the Jews by the way… and how if they become saved and revert back to Leviticus practice that there’s “no sacrifice for sins” because they sacrafice animals
It sounds a lot like Judas who was a disciple of Jesus for three years but as scripture says he did not believe, and Jesus called him a devil. Jesus is God and we know God cannot lie Titus 1:2. If God who said in his word when he gives us eternal life, and they shall never perish, is he telling us the truth or not. The word never means 'at no time' shall they perish, the word eternal means forever, never ending, perpetual, the life of God that comes into the recreated man that God comes into his inner man to live forever. Hebrews 13:5 for he has said I will never, at no time, leave thee, nor forsake thee. 1 John 5:10-11 He that believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself: he that believes not God has made him a liar, because he believes not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son has not life. You either believe God or you don't Trent, you are calling God a liar.
the differences that trent talks about have no practical relevance neither to men nor to God. this question is irrelevant and not worth discussing apart from academic purposes.
@@macbride33 Paul did NOT say work FOR your salvation but he said work out. There's salvation already. He just said it to pursue spiritual growth. Personal Responsibility: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" suggests that believers should actively pursue their spiritual growth and moral conduct, taking their faith seriously and with reverence. Divine Empowerment: "For it is God who works in you" highlights that while believers are responsible for their spiritual journey, it is God who gives them the desire and ability to live out their faith.
@@samuelaguilar9668 you make 0 sense. If you are already saved, what in the world is there to work out on fear and trembling? Why? Is the question you need to answer.
That’s not true that’s probably what Catholics believe The Bible says we can’t take John 3:16 for example “For God so loved the world that he gave his only son so whoever believes in him SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE”
Jesus said I know my sheep they know me I give them eternal life nothing can ever take them from my hands my father is greater and all has given them to me and nothing can snatch them for his hands I and the father are one which means once we are in Jesus nothing can take us away from him my friends
Protestants: I guess all you have to do is say a magic prayer and you go to heaven. Wow, you don’t even need to go to church anymore. Can break all 10 commandments and still go to heaven. Seems like the New Testament should only be one verse long since that’s all you need.
Nope. The Bible is clear that salvation is permanent. Faith alone = Once Saved Always Saved Faith alone = believe on Christ and DONE Works salvation = can be lost because man must keep the Law to earn salvation
Those who have received the Holy Ghost are guaranteed eternal life. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory - Ephesians 1:13-14
Putting one's seal on something was a guaranty of the identity of who sent it, or to whom it belonged. A seal on a document testified that this person had written and signed it. The seal of Baptism is that indelible mark or character which conforms the soul to God in the likeness of Christ by the power of the Spirit. So being sealed with the Spirit just means we are permanently marked as belonging to God. That doesn't mean that we can't turn away from God. The Jews in the Old Testament were marked as belonging to God, and they turned away time and again. How worse the fate of a person who is sealed with the Spirit and who turns away from God, than the fate of a person who was never given the Spirit. You’re just making up a new meaning of what being sealed means.
@@noahgaming8833 No Noah. is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory - Ephesians 1:13-14
No, Noah. God's Holy Spirit is the guarantee until our redemption. Our glorified bodies - eternal life. "guarantee until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"
@@noahgaming8833 Jesus loses none of those who the Father has given him. "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them all up at the last day. - John 6:37
@@companyboss5447 In John 6:37a, Jesus states: “All that the Father gives me will come to me.” Commentators note that the Greek phrase translated “all that” (pan ho) is neuter rather than the expected masculine. They have thus seen the first statement as not simply speaking of individuals but of the whole people that God gives Jesus-i.e., a Church. Jesus is thus affirming that the whole Church will come to Jesus. But what about the individual? This is dealt with in the second half of John 6:37b: “and him who comes to me I will not cast out.” Translated less elegantly, the statement would read “and the one coming to me I would certainly not cast out.” Here “the one” (ton) is masculine, indicating the individual, and the present tense participle “coming” (erchomenon) indicates an ongoing action, not a one-time encounter. This is not controversial and is acknowledged by Calvinists. The second part of the verse thus indicates Jesus will not cast out those who come and keep coming to him. But this does not establish eternal security. Nobody would argue that Jesus would cast out those who, with repentance and faith, continue to follow him. But, by implication, if a person ceases to turn to Jesus in this way, he would cease to be part of the people that God gives to his Son, and he would be cast out. The other comments aren’t refuting my first point. The Bible is very clear on this. “For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance” - Hebrews 6:4-6 There you have it, Paul, under inspiration, says plainly that those who have become partakers of holy spirit can and will fall away.
Christ be with you That’s not what scripture says For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; 39 and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:38-40) You are reading into the verses what you want to see. Jesus came to do his part to see his Fathers will fulfilled but you are ignoring that we have a role to play in fulfilling his Will also. “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matt 7:21) Jesus tell us that the Father himself will be that one to take away those who do not keep his Will and abide in his Son by living in obedience to his teaching and commandments. “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. *Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away,* and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. (John 15:1-2) I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6) You are reading a verse of the Bible to make what you want, true, rather than seeking understanding in the rest of scripture. God bless you
@Jesus Christ Is My Lord And Savior The parable of the sheep and the goats is blasphemy against the glorious doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved". Matthew 10:22 and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 13:21 yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away. Matthew 24:13 But anyone who endures to the end will be saved. Mark 13:13 and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi3880 Peace Christ be with yo Empty words I showed you the scripture. The Father will take away and burn those who do not abide in the Son. (John 15:1-6) It is only those who do not defile there garments of righteousness cleansed by Christ that will not be blotted out of the book of life. (Rev 3:1-6) Read the Bible Come to Christ
CALVIN ❤❤❤ You sound like you want people to lose salvation. Work out YOUR salvation don"t judge orhers. This is nonsense, marks on the soul? Where did you learn that? In a marvel comic book?
Of course you can lose your salvation; just read the Word! What's not empirically provable to someone is whether they've been "Saved" in the first place. Salvation is a gift from God so no man can boast (of his works or goodness). But there is a "turning" that must occur in a person, right? How do you know if you've "turned" properly and accepted God's gift? Doesn't one's continued salvation require faith in and continued obedience to God? Galatians, and other Biblical books, will tell you a person can fall from Grace by falling back on the Law. What? Is the Bible in error now? God forbid! So...have you really been saved? How deep is your love...your faith? We might do well to humble down and lose our presumptuous natures...self included!
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like. Salvation- 1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart. 2. Permanently forgiven 3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate. 4. Sealed by the spirit 5. spiritually discerning in scripture 6. Knows the mind of God 7. Recognizes Gods voice 8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin. 9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit. 10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation. 11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God. 12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon. Lost- 1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness. 2. Slaves to flesh 3. Slaves to the World 4. Unable to choose God 5. Hostile to God 6. Capable of apostasy 7. Dead in sin and trespasses 8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 9. LOVES sin. 10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity. When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will. Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL. John 14:15 "If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments. Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further… John 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”. John 15:5 Greek I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort. There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father. Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts. The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that. Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical. A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; *that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.* 1 JOHN 5:13
@William Burych If no one knows if they are saved until they die? then why would Jesus say these words? and was Jesus lying? John 3:15-16 15 That whosoever BELIEVETH in him should NOT PERISH, but HAVE ETERNAL LIFE 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH IN HIM should not perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE. John 3:36 He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath EVERLASTING LIFE and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and BELIEVETH on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE; and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 6:40 40 And this is the WILL of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and BELIEVETH on HIM, may HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:47 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that BELIEVETH on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and BELIEVETH in me shall NEVER DIE. Believest thou this? John 10:28 And I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 17:3 And this is LIFE ETERNAL that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
His explenation is so sad. He believes in fake jesus, because he do not understand the true Jesus, the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives and the power of almighty God. No believer, in whom the Holy Ghost dwells even thinks of turning away from God.
The biggest problem with the can't lose salvation argument is it forces one to be in an eternal state when that can't happen until after death. While we're alive and still subject time and space we are free to make choices post baptism.
@@cyberfist6568 No. Saved people are new creation after they are saved. Now they are filled with the Holy Ghost that protects them. Sure. We will still sin, but we are no more condemned for eternal punishment. Jesus took that punishemnt upon himself. Are you sure ypu properly understand what Christianity is really about, because you sound like you don't. Saved people can't chase away the Holy Spirit from within themselves because they don't even have such ideas. What kind of God do you belive in that would let His children lost its way?
@@cyberfist6568 Are you sure you know what Christianity is really about and what Jesus did on the cross? Sounds like you believe in a false god that would let His children to perish. Saved people are new creation. The old is gone. They are now filled with the Holy Spirit that protects them. Sure. They will still sin, but they will not face the enternal punishment for it. Jesus took that punishment upon himself. Saved people can't rid off the Holy spirit, because they don't even have such ideas. You should really think about what kind of god do you believe in.
@@cyberfist6568 Are you sure you know what Christianity is really about and what Jesus did on the cross? Sounds like you believe in a false god that would let His children to perish. Saved people are new creation. The old is gone. They are now filled with the Holy Spirit that protects them. Sure. They will still sin, but they will not face the enternal punishment for it. Jesus took that punishment upon himself. Saved people can't rid off the Holy spirit, because they don't even have such ideas. You should really think about what kind of god do you believe in.
@@cyberfist6568 Are you sure you know what Christianity is really about and what Jesus did on the cross? Sounds like you believe in a false god that would let His children to perish. Saved people are new creation. The old is gone. They are now filled with the Holy Spirit that protects them. Sure. They will still sin, but they will not face the enternal punishment for it. Jesus took that punishment upon himself. Saved people can't rid off the Holy spirit, because they don't even have such ideas. You should really think about what kind of god do you believe in.
You can not lose your salvation it says it right in the Bible. Plus Jesus wants everyone to be Protestant. I forget what verse that is, but you can look it up. I'm only telling you because I love you all with all my heart and I don't want to see you go to hell! My Uncle Bert converted to Romanism on his death bed, and so we lost him to Satan just at the last minute, when he should have been going to heaven. It hurt his wife so bad she had to be under house observation for a month. Don't let that happen to you all. Convert while there's still time! Jesus loves you.
@@tasfinye1850 Rev 3:5 (( I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, )). great promise. this is a promise to all that believe in Christ, ALL. want scripture 1John 5:5
this is a super bad teaching. Once saved always saved is true and real. If you dont understand this, then you are saying to GOD, that your salvation is about YOU...nothing Jesus did on the cross is suffient, as if the cross was just a marker point for us, and we do the rest. This idea that Salvation is really up to ME, I chose GOD, I will keep salvation, and my salvation is about what I did for GOD....is blashphemy. Man, I learned a long time ago thats an evil doctrine, GOD humbled me. You cant be perfect, you will never be perfect. If you are saved by the blood of Jesus of Christ, born again, and a new creation....you will never never go back. GOD will give you the strength knowledge and prudence to the end. You will fall and stumble but you are sealed. And yes dont test GOD or mock him, bc he will humble you, even if you are saved, you risk his wrath. But your salvation is a promise. Dont let these buffonish so called bible experts tell you other wise.
@Robert You obviously believe in another god friend! Not the God of the bible. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
@@thegoatofyoutube1787 There are many verses and passages that show a true believer cannot lose their salvation. One of the most clear is found in 1 John 2: 19. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us..". John shows us here that the reason one becomes apostate is because they were never true believers in the first place. And on the contrary, if they were true believers, they would not apostate. This clearly shows that true believers persevere whereas false brethren will eventually fall away. I can show more if you would like.
@@dannymcmullan9375 John is talking about antichrists pretending to be something they are not ; he is not addressing the question of wether a believer can fall away. There are many verses that demonstrate that this is possible, Paul talks about those who have made “shipwrecks of their faith” , Peter talks about how those who have tasted the truth and returned to their old ways are in a “worse condition then the first”, Hebrews explores how the Israelites serve as a warning to us, the list does on and on. This is why no Christians claimed a believer could never lose their salvation until John Calvin 1500 yrs after Christ. Even Paul warned against presumption saying he endures for fear that “having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.” That’s not how a man who believes in eternal security talks.
@@thegoatofyoutube1787 No he is talking about unbelievers. He uses the term antichrist to identify the spirit they are of. How do we know they are unbelievers? Because he explains what he means by antichrist in verse 22. There are a few verses that people try to use to say we can lose our salvation but they are always used out of context or they are just completely misinterpreted. Also, I could care less what Christians believed in the past. Totally irrelevant. It only matters what the word of God says and He is quite clear on this matter. I had a feeling you weren't actually asking a question to learn. You just wanted to fight. I'm not interested in fighting. Go find someone else for that. Bye
@@dannymcmullan9375 I don’t want to fight, sir, I’m replying to your public challenge to a teaching. I’d ask you to reflect on why you are guided by the Holy Spirit in your interpretation and those that disagree with you are not. There are just as many Protestant/Evangelical Christians that believe the Bible teaches you can lose your salvation as there are those that agree with you. They all have their favorite verses just like you do and if challenged they will say you are taking scriptures out of context. Maybe ignoring history and leaning on personal understanding is not a great method to discover truth.
If we as humans have the capacity to betray each other, why wouldn't we able to betray God and reject His grace?
Because God doesn't operate like a human. You cannot betray him or lose your salvation. If you could it would mean Christ died in vain. It's a gift. Paid for by Christ. God is not an Indian giver
@@EdWard-ie5wn yeah well a third of the angels fell just because they forsook him and they were already in heaven.
So like Troy says, if you foresake him on earth you never really did love him.
No different than two teenagers who swear at the age of 13 they will get married and live together then end up with someone else 4 months later … sure they thought it was love they felt but no it wasn’t really.
@@EdWard-ie5wn Didn’t Judas betray Him? If God doesn’t operate as a human then who the heck is Jesus?
To answer your question - We can't reject God's grace because we do not come to God by our own efforts or thoughts. John 6 tells us we cannot come to Jesus unless God the Father draws us (literally more like dragging, as water is drawn from a well -- same word). It also tells us that everyone who has learned from the Father will come to Jesus (and scripture elsewhere teaches that we are made into a new creature). It further tells us that none of those given to Jesus will be lost, but we will be raised up on the last day.
God (the Father) draws us. God (the Father) gives us to Jesus. Jesus keeps us. It's not of our doing, and thus cannot be of our undoing, either.
Be well.
@@jpreston84 this is not scriptural. You can lose your grace.
Matthew 7:21-23 (RSVCE): 21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
I’m a reformed Baptist and personally I’m on the side of eternal security, but I’ve been studying God’s Word and doing my research to see what the other side has to say! And not only this subject, but also just the Catholic faith in general. This was a different perspective, thank you, and God bless! I noticed the guy they had talk on this subject was the same guy that James White debated, seems like a very smart guy.
If you continue to look into the work of Trent Horn, you will continue to discover the true Christian faith that Jesus Christ truly desired for us.
Can you walk away from being born ? A bunch of smart guys real geniuses
A dilemma the Catholic cannot answer - how can Jesus say “i never knew you” in a world where mortal sin and reconciliation can make one flip flop in and out of salvation? The statement is “never knew you” but salvation is knowing him. if you can lose salvation, then for a time you “knew” jesus then didn’t thus making the “never knew you” claim a lie.
@@change_your_style best to fight them on their Plainfield. Trust me they’re playing field is a contextual mess. They dogmatically snip pieces of scripture like Romans 11 to miss interpreted as losing salvation, completely, ignoring the context of every passage, just to make a dogmatic case.
They do this with purgatory, they do this with Marry, they do this with the Saints, they do this with indulgences. What it really boils down to is really quite simple. “The church came from Christ there for the church is without air. Therefore whatever the church says goes”.
That’s what it’s going to boil down to after you’ve eroded there defenses. And the sad reality is otherwise intelligent individual’s remain blind to the truth of god because ultimately, they are dead in sin- blinded by the god of this world because they live a life of penance, trying to do good works to please God versus relying completely on faith and letting faith yield good works.
@@change_your_style For the sake of your immortal soul, you need to understand that you can walk away from being born again. Christ himself told us to abide in him (John 15) after we have been born again (ie: baptised - John 3 and 1 Peter 3:21) otherwise you may be cut off and thrown into the fire.
the editing and quality of these little videos are great. whoever you have at CA working on editing these videos is doing a good job!
Thank you☺ It's me, I'm editing them
If marriage is a picture of the relationship between Christ and his church it seems odd to me that, in the view of Rome, a valid marriage cannot be dissolved, but a true incorporation into the Body and Bride of Christ can.
Now, I am not saying that the warnings of falling away are not there for good reason. That those who stand should take heed, lest they fall, is wise in every aspect of life and we are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
But when Trent quotes Protestants who claim that those who walk away from the faith were never truly saved, that is exactly what Catholics say about annulments (i.e. that the marriage was simply never valid in the first place). That has always struck me as odd.
Read 1 John 2:18 through the rest of the chapter, and see what it says about those who professed one thing and and did another and see what the scriptures actually say about those deserters!
The bible never indicates in the first place that there would be a man can forgive sin! There is never a verse that says we are not to pray directly to God and confess our sin, we are sealed unto the day of redemption with the Holy Spirit. Believe the way you want, but why quote what is actually written to someone that doesn't believe they are infallible!
@Trent "once saved always saved" is in direct conflict with 1 Corinthians 11: 27-29. St. Paul proclaims that one may not partake of the bread and cup unworthily lest they bring judgement onto themselves. My questions are that if a saved person is always saved...
1. How would it be possible for an always saved person to be in an unworthy state?
2. How could an always saved person eat and drink judgement onto one's self?
3. If we are to believe the Protestant belief that the bread and wine are nothing but bread and wine, unchanged into something other than mere bread and wine, how could they possibly have such importance that one could eat the bread and drink the wine unworthily whether they are once saved, always saved or not?
The Protestant doctrine of once saved, always doesn't just contradict 1 Corinthians 11: 27-29, it is at war with that passage.
You suppose your view as fact, you don't even believe the word eternal that God uses really means eternal! Seal unto the day of redemption as heresy, you must believe God doesn't know the end from the beginning, He seals the believers with the Holy Spirit unto eternal life but has to wait to see if He made a mistake, doesn't that sound rather foolish! Had they been with us they would have remained with us, they departed to show that THEY WERE NEVER OF US. If you don't believe that and all verses walk hand in hand, you will never see error!
The same who says, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." Also says, "As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning (i.e. the Gospel) remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us-eternal life." 1 John 2
Dear brother, John is talking from the beginning in 1 John about fellowship with God. In verse 18 it talks about Antichrists going out from them, from the fellowship of the Church, cause they were never of them, wheter saved or not. Verse 24 is saying that everyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ is saved forever, but can lose his fellowship with God if they don't abide in Him.
If predestination is what caused the ones that went with us but since they were not predestined they did not belong to us, then why did Jesus say that he wished that none would perish. We all have free will. The predestination theology does not correspond with even John 3:16. He loved the world. That cancels out predestination.
@@axxel9626 You started with what the text really said and then diverted and added your misunderstanding of the words in the text. You just need to keep reading the words and then say you don't really believe they are inspired by God because they say had they been one of us they would have remained with us, but they left us to show they were never of us. Is that not true or NOT> you read your belief in to what you said was the text. Shame on you.
I am liking the new thumbnail style! And I agree that we can definitely lose our salvation. I fear this and that’s why it’s so important for me to stay close to the sacraments: confession and communion. I need to receive Jesus and I need His grace to help me avoid temptation of sin.
Amen 🙏 😊
Do not be deceived by Trent. A true believer cannot lose their salvation. The Bible is clear on this. "He who has begun a good work in you will complete it...". Salvation is God's work and He will complete it. You can do nothing to maintain it or keep yourself saved.
My friend I say this in love but I utterly reject the idea of fearing that you will loose your salvation. This right here is a trick that is of Satan because your hull walk is motivated by fear and not gods love and power. This fear will not set you free from sin. Fearing that you will loose your salvation is rooted in pride and is a sin because it comes from trying to earn gods love and based on how you perform day to day which makes you fearful. This will only reap death in your walk there is no life in that lie. It is the love and goodness of god that brings a man to repentance and through that your actions change. This is the biggest lie in Christianity that so many people are in snare to. Good bless and he love you unconditionally.
This makes me sad that people believe this loosing your salvation garbage and I’m sick of hearing it😢😣 it’s his love and power that changes us not him threatening that he will throw you in hell! Stop believing this lady! I’m so sad for you and I’m praying for you now! Please do you can experience life! God power! If I were with you in the person I would be begging and pleading that you would see!😢
Not will never EVER EVER dis own his child!!! Would you??? If you would then you don’t have love for your child. Doesn’t matter how much you sin! God will only show you even deeper levels of his love that would be very difficult to resist!
I feel lost and don’t fully understand how I can avoid hell….it says God has mercy on who he wants to….so does anything I do matter? I believe with all my heart for real it’s so real to me, but I’m practicing sin willingly even though I don’t want to do it and know it’s wrong and feel like God has forsaken me because he won’t bother with someone who he knows is going to hell anyways….I don’t get why no matter how much I pray or beg or cry out he doesn’t want to intervene like he does in other believers lives. I’m so hopeless and fear judgement and hell every day😢
Go to confession, if you truly repent and want to commit your sins no more, Jesus Christ (in the person of the priest) will forgive your sins :) Another important thing : only mortal sins cut you from the grace of God, and these sins must be commited in 1. Perfect knowledge of the sinful nature of the act 2. Perfectly willingly (if you fall in temptation or for others reasons, your will was not perfectly unaltered) 3. Regarding a grave matter. If one of these conditions is not met, the sin is not mortal, it's venial (and the Holy Mass takes away venial sins), for the rest, there is the sacrament of confession, God IS waiting you to return to him, for there is more joy in heaven for one sinner that repents than for 99 justs that live holy lives. Just go, He's impatient to have you back
That fact that you feel so convicted proves that you have the Holy Spirit. Faith in Jesus is what saves us, not works. (Ephesians 2:8-9) A Christian isn't saved one day and lost another. God has you in His hands, we all sin but He will keep us from falling away. (Jude 1:24) Continue to grow closer to Him. He will finished the work He started in you. (Philippians 1:6)
Gods mercy is endless and his grace is everlasting, he will never leave you nor forsake you, everyday that God gives you is another day to get right with him and give everything to him, God's got you, he's Givin you his Holy Spirit so all the feelings of fear and doubt and discouragement are from the enemy, don't listen to them, cause God has called you his child, you are wonderfully and fearfully made, trust in the Lord with all your heart, he will guide you if u try, and he doesn't pick and choose on who he wants to have mercy on for his mercy is for everyone, he will never turn away the one who comes to him, if u truly want to quit with sin, then give it to him, for we cannot change ourselves he wants us to come to him as we are and give everything to him so he can change us, and clean us from all unrighteousness, he's already paid the ultimate price for our sins, so we can have assurance through him that we will be with him and that our sins are forgiven when we repent and accept him into our heart as our Lord and Savior, and pray to the Holy Spirit to lead you, guide you, and teach you for he's given you a spirit of power, comfort, and teaching not a spirit of fear that's just the enemy trying to get you, don't let him remember, through the power of prayer the Lord will win our battles for us, so don't worry and don't be scared the Lord has you in his loving arms keep reading your Bible and keep in prayer and lean not unto your own understanding but lean onto his understanding and learn of him, for his yoke is easy and his burden is light. God loves you always remember that. We are all sinners that's just what we are, but we don't have to dwell on that cause we know that through Jesus Christ, we are saved by his grace through faith because of what HES done. God bless you.
Even Paul in the Bible said he did things he didn't want to do and didn't do things he wanted to do. We all struggle with sin. Jesus is our high priest, not man. You can pray and repent to Jesus and ask him to forgive you and to help you over come what you are struggling with. Start reading the Bible too. I saw a study that reading 4 times or more a week really helps people in changing their lives!😊
Ifyou confess your sin God is faithful and just to forgive your sin and leanse us for all unrighteousness.
L
The position for Calvinist that hold to baptismal regeneration seems to be super conflicting. If a baptized regenerate believer falls away which happens then it destroys their erroneous position, & as Trent Horn mentions which obliterates osas is per Saint Paul, w/ ones faith being ship wrecked...amongst countless other texts
@@Bigdaddyschnooks that does not hold up. I can give you countless texts refuting that, but in short, would an unbeliever have their faith shipwrecked? Told to finish the race, not fall away? Christ in Luke 22 prays Saint Peters faith will not fail. Rom 11 we can be grafted in & cut off. Christ says abide in him & bear fruit otherwise thrown into the fire. Saint Paul says several times that such sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The Parable of the Prodigal Son shows falling away & returning. Christ gave authority to his apostles to forgive sin, sacrament of confession in John 20 as well as His body & blood all thru the Gospels that we may have life by partaking this sacrament. Hebrews is explicit that partakers of the Holy Spirit can fall away. Saint James tells us a multitude of sins will be covered if we turn a sinner back from the error of his ways. Saint 2Peter 20-21For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. I can keep going but hopefully you see the truth of scripture & the position this ancient holy faith has had the entirety of church history
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
*"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."* (Ephesians 4:30)
Brother, this verse right here is straight outta the word of God. The day of redemption is the second coming of Jesus where the believers are resurrected and made whole with their new, glorified bodies. That is the end goal/the point of the "good fight" or the "race" as Paul refers to it. The Holy Spirit is given to believers upon believing (Ephesians 1:13). Now, if you think you can break the seal of the Holy Spirit, I don't know what to tell you.
As far as people that "were saved" but fell away:
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1 John 2:19)
Excellent points. Can’t fight logic lol.
A dilemma the Catholic cannot answer - how can Jesus say “i never knew you” in a world where mortal sin and reconciliation can make one flip flop in and out of salvation? The statement is “never knew you” but salvation is knowing him. if you can lose salvation, then for a time you “knew” jesus then didn’t thus making the “never knew you” claim a lie.
I would also encourage you to continue reading the Thessalonians series. I get the feeling you think that believers remain asleep until the day of the second coming before we are resurrected consciously into heaven. Scripture doesn’t teach that. But that’s a common misconception.
@@HillbillyBlack If salvation was knowing God, then Satan and his angels wouldn't have ever fallen. Did Jesus say "I never knew you" to all who reject him or to _many_ who rejected him?
@@aprendiz4 he says it to those that ignore Romans 4:4-8.
Salvation by works isn’t salvation.
@@HillbillyBlack Why are you shying away from what I said about Satan?
And why would Paul have to tell the Romans not to subject themselves to sin again if they're already under grace and therefore wouldn't be sinning anyway?
@@aprendiz4 im showing you what salvation really is. Satan didn’t have salvation. It didnt exist then just as it didn’t exist for Adam. These were created in grace with choice. Humanities creation after the angelic fall sealed the angels decisions on both sides. Today Gabriel cannot choose to rebel. Just as the regenerate today, reborn and made alive cannot choose to undo salvation. The truly regenerate are redeemed and made alive. Not made alive by human will.
So basically Yes, even those who are once Saved from sin still have free will and can choose to no longer be Saved from and sin, and go on sinning. We still are held accountable for our actions.
Christ tells us repeatedly as he told the woman accused of adultery, "Go and sin no more."
Here's an example for those who disagree- Satan. Even though he was in God's very presence in Heaven, in such a much more secured holy state than any holy person set foot on earth besides our Lord had yet witnessed... he fell. See Revelations 12
You are going to sin no matter what. Whether you are saved or not. To say you can lose your salvation because of sin is ridiculous. If that's the case what is the purpose of Christ.
I agree that scripture tells us repeatedly not to sin. That's a matter of sanctification, not justification.
Why do you think Satan is a proof of the ability to lose salvation. Do you believe that Satan was saved at some point previously?
@@jpreston84 Satan was never a human. You're comparing apples and oranges
@@EdWard-ie5wn Friend, I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to the person who suggested that Satan is an example of lost salvation. I don't think scripture supports that position at all.
@@jpreston84 my bad
Great video, sad to see Catholic Answers Forums no longer exist, was a great place to further debate.
I thought it did still exist. I was just listening to them today.
@@clivejames5058 Yes I meant the Forums, they did away with them.
RCC is extremely heretical. Pope kissing the kuran and saying every religion is a path to God. Talk about ear tickling!
Do you steel have it?
How do we keep it?
The problem of thinking that we can lose salvation it stands in the fact that we think we have the power to gain it in the first place.
If that doctrine of losing salvation is true theres no hope gain it back has it says in the book of Hebrews 6:4("impossible to bring on to repentance those who....")
You don't lose your salvation by sinning a number of times, you lose it by ceasing to care about God's commandments, which would lead you to becoming a sinner again.
Hebrews 6 actually refutes you, since you believe you can't fall away after you've been given the Holy Spirit, which means it doesn't make sense for Hebrews to be talking about falling away on verse 6 onwards if it can't happen. On principle, you would reject any interpretation that doesn't make sense.
@@aprendiz4 galatians 2:21
@@axxel9626 The verse says "I don't set aside the grace of God". That's exactly my point. Don't renounce God's grace or you lose your salvation.
@@aprendiz4 no. You CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION. YOU NEVER EARNED IT. JOHN 10:28 AND 2 TIMOTHY 2:13 ARE SUPER CLEAR.
Tha verse you quoted is saying that we should not abuse the grace of God, that we may not be chasened by Him.
@@axxel9626 None of the two verses you cited make your point. I would show you how, but you seem to think you're infallible when you interpret those verses. Do you want to know why your interpretation is not valid in light of the message of the Bible?
To anyone reading this. I do have a genuine question and all answers are welcome. I do believe that salvation can be lost by apostate, but does that mean that if I commit a sin at all, will I lose my salvation? Or is my loss in salvation just the rejection of God's grace and leaving Jesus in the dust after accepting Christ as savior?
Catholic teaching is that venial sin does not separate your relationship with God. Mortal sin does and will likely cause you to go to Hell if you die without repentance. (look up the requirements to committing a mortal sin)
Will Jesus Christ EVER ,,,,, UN.. redeem his own ,,,after ...he has redeemed them? Does Jesus Christ abort his own or put them on probation ? OSAS IS CHRISTIANITY PERIOD. END OF THIS DEBATE PERIOD
@theodoreritola7641 OSAS is a lie that calvin invented based of Agustine
SO you realy believe Jesus Christ will ..un.. redeem his own? do u even know what redemption is ? How do you call.Jesus Christ a liar in John ch 3 vs 16 ? So you dont believe in redemption satan has you very very spiritualy blinded and you believe in you dont need to trust JESUS CHRIST ALONE FOR YOUR SALVATION ..OSAS IS IN THE BLOOD AND DNA OF GOD ALL MIGHTY
@theodoreritola7641 Am blinded? Who's the one who believes In a doctrine that didny exist till 1500 years after Christ? U do know ur doctrine was taught for the first time during the reformation right?
Funny how there is so much debate on this, and everyone is convinced they've got it right.
I have asked God every fucking day of my life for the past 15 years to give me a tangible, physical, real visible audible JUST ANYTHING BESIDES SILENCE AND UNANSWERED EVERYTHING AND GETTING FRUSTRATED BC IM TRYING TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEONE/something THAT NEVER RESPONDS!!!!
Idk how anyone can think they really know the answers to anything about what happens after death, meaning of life, purpose, if we have an eternal soul that goes to a physical place after this life, if there’s a God worth worshiping if God is even real If there is a hell and how we can avoid it I can go on and on. No one asked for any of this and if it’s easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than it is to get in to heaven, why the fuck is that fair how is that right when everyone regardless of free will is a product of their environment their genes the people around them and we had no choice or chance where or who were born to. How can hell be an acceptable punishment for crimes we committed that offend God when we had no choice in the matter to even be alive let alone the environment you’re born in to. Hell bothers me so bad I hope it’s not real
A dilemma the Catholic cannot answer - how can Jesus say “i never knew you” in a world where mortal sin and reconciliation can make one flip flop in and out of salvation? The statement is “never knew you” but salvation is knowing him. if you can lose salvation, then for a time you “knew” jesus then didn’t thus making the “never knew you” claim a lie.
XoMa, you sound a lot like I did when I was a diehard believer trying to desperately to sense out of all the nonsense.
When we're dealing with unproven supernatural claims, there will never be enough prayer, belief, faith, etc to make it true or make it work.
It's okay to admit "I don't know". Sometimes it actually takes a lot of humility to say that.
@@HillbillyBlackit's not a hard response, and it's only a dilemma when it's already put in the framework of eternal security (confirmation bias) or there is a lack of understanding of mortal sin and the sacrament of reconciliation. Flip flopping is a misunderstanding of mortal sin. No one accidentally or out of imperfection commits mortal sin. They are fully aware of and actively make a choice with grave consequences. In the context of Matthew and even John if one doesn't obey the Lord they don't love the Lord and therefore, doesn't enter heaven. Reconciliation was given so should we reject God per the criteria above (not just being imperfect) we can be welcomed back with evidence of contrition and repentance.
@@cyberfist6568 Is eternal life eternal?
Does God transformed the heart?
Do those in the vine produce fruit?
Does god prune those in the vine?
Does even the fool walk the way?
Are we not regarded as sons for correction?
Does God cause us to walk in his rules and statutes?
To lose something supposes the mechanism that saves is not of God.
Is god so weak that the will in men is able to overcome him? Or is god so powerful that he is able to keep you from stumbling?
Is our perceived will bestowed supernatural power to resist God? And if so where did the power come from in the new covenant?
Or…s god so powerful that he’s able to bring you to completion?
If this is all true then language of loss has to be reevaluated contextually otherwise confusion is created and one Has to choose from a 50-50 choice derived from plainly read text out of context using human will vs trust.
Do we make much of men or much of God? Is God sovereign?
It’s the God you KNOW versus the god you think. THE ROMAN SYSTEM WILL NEVER ANSWER THIS CORRECTLY UNLESS IT’S SELF IS REFORMED TO THE TRUTH OF GOD’S WORD.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” ( John 6:37-40)
If you can't lose your salvation prior to death, either you have become incapable of sin or God no longer cares whether you sin or not. Both of these heresies have their adherents among contemporary Protestants.
Friend, neither of these is a belief held by most denominations, particularly those who hold to Reformed Theology. The belief is that, instead, Jesus died once for all (according to Hebrews 7), meaning that his death, which happened before I was ever born, covered my sins, and no additional atonement is necessary. Christ's death was not only sufficient (capable of wiping away my sins), but also efficient (meaning he accomplished exactly what he set out to do -- as he said, "it is finished").
It is not as though my additional (future, to me) sins are a surprise to God. He knew and knows what sins I will commit, even when I myself do not yet know. Those sins were covered by the blood of Christ before I was ever born. My salvation is not contingent on me doing anything. It is God who did it all.
Be well.
@@jpreston84 You make some sense. But it is still God who does it all at confession. I think losing salvation is still possible, otherwise the concept of "deadly and undeadly sin" is not functional, especially the ones that were in fact, listed in scripture. Also, why would Jesus tell his Apostles, "Whoever's sins you forgive are forgiven, and whoever's sins you retain are retained"? What would be your understanding of this? These are just some of my questions, if possible I'd love for the Catholic Answers' one to be refuted.
Peace be upon you :)
@@regandonohue3899 - Sorry for the late reply.
Simply, the idea of deadly/mortal sins, as Catholics regard them, is mostly an invention of the church, and simply not found in scripture. The closest one can come in scripture are two passages.
In Mark 3:28-30, we read about those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. But notice how this is different from the Catholic model -- verse 29 says that person "never has forgiveness". It is not a "mortal sin" from which one needs redemption. Rather, it is an unpardonable sin for which there is no forgiveness.
And then, in 1 John 5:16-17, we read about a "sin that leads to death". But again, this is not a "mortal sin" in the Catholic sense. The author of the epistle says one should not even pray for this sin.
Finally, as regards the "power" to forgive sins, this is actually a translational issue. This is not an empowerment, but rather a command. Literally, it's more like "If you forgive sins, they are already forgiven by God." And think through the simple logic -- it is God's prerogative alone, as the one who has been sinned against, to forgive sins. This verse immediately follows the phrase "Receive the Holy Spirit." In other words, Christ is commissioning them as the ones he sent out, to forgive after like manner as Christ himself has forgiven us.
I hope this helps.
@@jpreston84 I John 5:16-18:
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin that is not a deadly sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not deadly. There is sin which is deadly; I do not say one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not deadly. We know that anyone born of God does not sin, but He who is born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Three points:
1. These verses cannot be any plainer that there is such a thing as “deadly sin” and “sin which is not deadly.” That is precisely what the Church means by mortal (sin unto death) and venial (sin not unto death) sin.
2. St. John distinguishes the effects of mortal and venial sin as well. Members of the Body of Christ can pray for someone who commits venial sin (sin “which is not deadly”) and “life” (Gr. - zo-ay, or the divine life of God) and healing can be communicated to him through that prayer. But when it comes to “deadly sin,” St. John tells us not to “pray for that.” This is not meant to say we should not pray for a person in this state of sin at all. Scripture is very clear that we should pray for “all men” in I Tim. 2:1-2. The context seems to indicate that he is referring to praying that God “give [the wounded member of Christ] life” directly through that prayer. Divine life and healing can only come through members of the Body of Christ to other members in a direct way if the person being prayed for is in union with the Body of Christ. For mortal sin, one can only pray that God would grant the grace of repentance to the sinner so that they may be restored to communion with the Body of Christ through the sacrament of confession.
To understand this better, consider the analogy St. Paul uses for the people of God in I Corinthians 12:12-27-the analogy of the physical body of a human being. St. Paul tells us we are all members of “the Body of Christ.” A wounded finger that is still attached to its host body can be healed organically by the rest of the body. That kind of wound is analogous to the effect of venial sin. A severed finger, however, cannot be healed by the rest of the body because it is no longer attached to the body. That kind of wound is analogous to the effect of mortal sin. So it is in the Body of Christ.
3. Just after distinguishing between mortal (deadly) and venial (non-deadly) sins, St. John says “anyone born of God does not sin.” We know St. John could not be referring to all sin here because he already told us in I John 1:8: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” Christians sin. It is clear from the context that St. John is referring to mortal sin here. If we sin mortally, we are cut off from the Body of Christ and are no longer in union with God. In that sense, the one who is in union with God cannot sin mortally. This is yet another clear distinction between mortal and venial sins in this text.
First we must define what is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The Catechism states:
“Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.” There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss (CCC 1864).
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to refuse God’s mercy. It is a refusal to repent of sin. God does not bring anyone into his kingdom against his/her will. Human persons have the ability to reject God’s mercy and refuse forgiveness of sins which leads to eternal separation from God.
Forget about contemporary protestants.
"For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin- 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin - Romans 6:7"
&
"In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus - Romans 6:11"
By the way, the first part of your logic is correct.
If you could lose your salvation, you would. Enternal life is exactly that. eternal
Does that really mean it never ends! Of course you are right, it never ends.
Funny how only calvinists believe in the 5 points. Out of all the other denominations and people that ever read the Bible, Calvin was the only one to say "you can't choose salvation, you're totally depraved, if you're elect than you'll be a good Christian and if you sin then maybe you never were or ever will be a true Christian." Not like it matters because the elect can sin but they're already forgiven long before they ever commit the sin. Also if you aren't elect, then there's nothing that can be done. God is sovereign, he made you and tons of other people just to exist in torment for no fault of your own. God made you totally depraved, dead in your sin, and since he didn't elect you he won't toss you the life raft of grace and regenerate your heart so that you no longer sin. Most calvinists will think of a non elect person as if they deserve hell for not being chosen like they were. It's a gross theology to me and I wonder if JWs and Mormons are closer to Christian than calvinists are.
"Most calvinists will think of a non elect person as if they deserve hell for not being chosen like they were." I believe in election/predestination, and I don't know a single electionist/predestinationist who believes "the non-elect deserving hell for not being chosen as they were" as if 'electionists/predestinationists' believe they themselves do not believe they also deserve hell. Every human being in history, other than Christ, was and is fully deserving hellfire.
@@soulosxpiotov7280 but doesn't jesus want everyone to be saved? 1 Tim 2. Does god want the unelect to be saved or is scripture wrong here? The unelect may not have chosen christ if they were given the choice but the fact that they have no choice in calvinism means they were created for destruction. How can they be blamed for their destruction if there was nothing they could do to overt it? Does god truly want to save these people? If so why doesn't he? Is something they are doing preventing him from doing so?
@@timboslice980 That God "desires" everyone to be saved does not mean He elects everyone. Read Romans 9 when you get a chance - but I'll cut to the chase - it says "Who are YOU, OH MAN, ....to talk back to God!" That be the answer, we have no right to take offense at God.
@@soulosxpiotov7280 I did not say that. Not all are elect....He desires us to be saved but something must be stopping god from getting what he wants. Why do you think god wants the unelect to be saved?
@@timboslice980 Romans 9 & 10 answers your question. Question is, will you reject what Romans 9 & 10 says? I'm glad I'm not Pharaoh, whom the Lord hardened to show His glory. But there is a difference between "desire" and a higher purpose, which is His glory.
Romans 4:5; Romans 11:6; Galatians 5:16-17; Ephesians 4:30; 2 Timothy 2:13
And what do these scriptures prove?
@@Keepitoriginalministry Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” ( John 6:37-40)
@christsavesreadromans1096 Not all the saved are elect?
@christsavesreadromans1096 Do you have any scripture to back this up?
First of all, it is NOT TRUE that all Christians during the first 1500 years believed that a true Christian can lose his/her salvation. During the 4th century St. Augustine taught what is now known as Calvinism. It is also important to note that not everybody who believes in the eternal security of the believer is a Calvinist. Many are not (although I am). Let's look at scriptures: John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand". What part of NEVER don't RC's and Arminians understand? Also: 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us".
Augustine was not calvinist wth.
Augustine said it is not a sin to worship the Eucharist but that it is in fact a sin NOT to worship the Eucharist.
Does this sound Calvinist?
You took 1 John 2:19 out of context. If you read the whole passage, St. John, the author of the epistle, was talking about the false teachers or the "antichrists" who have invaded the Church and were teaching a Gnostic heresy that Jesus did not come in the flesh but was instead a phantom or a ghost. St. John was not talking about all apostates in that verse; he was only talking about the Gnostic heretics who were invading the Church and impersonating true Christians. For example, it is said by the scribe who has blonde hair and who fought in a war as a child soldier, which moved and drove her to desperately seek and search for the meaning of "I love you" by writing down letters: "No letter that could be sent deserves to go undelivered". What shall we say then? Does this verse mean that all letters must be delivered to those that the letters are supposed to be delivered to, which includes letters with harmful words and Satanic spells? By no means! In the context of the passage, she was talking to a little girl who was the daughter of her client whom she was writing a letter for.
@@crusaderACR Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@@crusaderACR Augustine-
“…inasmuch as it is He that justifies the ungodly, to the man who believes in him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is imputed for righteousness.”
@@HillbillyBlack Nice misquoting of Augustine, bible pervert. Do you also believe what St. Augustine says here?
On Grace and Free Will, 20 (426-427):
This question, then, seems to me to be by no means capable of solution, unless we understand that even those good works of ours, which are recompensed with eternal life, belong to the grace of God, because of what is said by the Lord Jesus: “Without me ye can do nothing.” Jn. 15:5…
We are framed, therefore, that is, formed and created, “in the good works which” we have not ourselves prepared, but “God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” It follows, then, dearly beloved, beyond all doubt, that as your good life is nothing else than God’s grace, so also the eternal life which is the recompense of a good life is the grace of God; moreover it is given gratuitously, even as that is given gratuitously to which it is given. But that to which it is given is solely and simply grace; this therefore is also that which is given to it, because it is its reward;-grace is for grace, as if remuneration for righteousness; in order that it may be true, because it is true, that God “shall reward every man according to his works.”(Mt. 16:27). NPNF1, vol. 5, pp. 451-2.
Do you believe that it is our GOOD WORKS and a GOOD LIFE that is recompensed with eternal life, and not our faith alone?
Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Psalm 34:20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.
If the King James Bible is right, in which no one has been able to disprove it, then it is impossible for a Christian to lose salvation because Jesus Christ doesn’t dismember himself and there’s no sin strong enough to separate a Christian from His body. Furthermore, God keeps His Born Again saved.
1 Peter 1:4-5
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
How can a name be erased if it is not written in the book of life in the first place, this is Jesus Christ himself talking here, according to Jesus Christ it is possible for a name being erased in the book of life,so once saved always saved, it is a false gospel indeed
You provided the answer in the first 3 words of Revelations 3:5. "He who overcomes..." Not everyone overcomes! What's so hard to understand that concept?!!!
Saying "i will not erase his name" does not mean that it must be possible to erase the name in the first place. It simply states that the name will not be erased.
@@christopherneedham9584
Christ be with you
Yes it does and it implies that those who have defiled their garments with sin will be erased, otherwise there is little point in saying it.
God bless you
@@MrKev1664 the very fact that you said "it implies that" means you are inferring a statement that isn't in the text. Or you are reasoning out something.
There could be a reason for having a statement saying "I will not blot out his name" even if it were impossible for a name to ever be blotted out. For example, refutation of a belief that you can lose your salvation, for example.
Also, trying to read into the passage anything about ones ability to tarnish their garments is incredibly disrespectful to the text here.
@@christopherneedham9584
Christ be with you
No you are denying something that is easily seen in the text.
In Rev 3:1-6 Jesus warns the Church of Sardis of the poor works.
He tells them that the must repent for the have defiled the garments of righteousness.
The only ones he singles out that the will not blot out are those who remain undefiled.
The underlying reasons are given in the previous verses we don’t have to make up stories.
Those who have defile their garments must cleanse them.
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. (Rev 22:14)
Please read the Bible and stop trying to twist a single verse to fit you false believe.
Come to Christ
If I have a feeling that I did lose it, and still pursue the faith, did I lose it?
NO. WE CANNOT LOSE SALVATION. IF WE COULD, WE ALREADY WOULD HAVE DONE IT. WE CANNOT LOSE IT BECAUSE WE DIDNT DO NOTHING TO EARN IT. AMEB
The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
You can’t lose the gift because the gift didn’t come from you and if you could lose it from sin then Jesus and John would be a liar.
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 6:37 ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 6:39-40 ESV
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. [40] For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
Do keep in mind that true regeneration comes with it marked behavior. And this is not a willed behavior of your own accord. This is all the causality of God.
1 John 3:9 esv/ greek interl
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he is not able to keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1 Corinthians 12:3 ESV
Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.
So we have the marked promise of salvation and the seal of salvation and the promise from Jesus of salvation and the reason why it’s secure based on what it looks like and what we are unable to do. If you’re struggling with salvation security, read Hebrews 12:4-8. Struggle with sin is the mark of salvation.
God promised this salvation long before this new covenant
Ezekiel 36:26-27
You can fall away from grace, but you don't have to be scared because God will always take you back, just like the father took back his ungrateful son. All you have to do is humble yourself and repent.
@@kaktustustus1244 no one born of God falls away
@@axxel9626That's not true at all. U want to debate the topic?
“He who sins after his baptism, unless he repent and forsake his sins, shall be condemned to Hell-fire.”
APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS (A. D. 390)
Sin isn't real.
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40)
He who does not understand eternal life probably doesn’t have it
that is not in scripture, now show what the inspired word of God actually says, John 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.” What does the word eternal means? Everlasting! and they shall "never"" perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of my Father's hand, do you see these truths? Let the words speak for themselves.
Well, you have to be saved in the first place and that would have a believer participating in a true baptism by a believer fully immersed. If you have not done that, you have not even started the journey.
Jesus Christ saved those baptized with The Holy Spirit from Original Sin. Sins committed after have to be confessed, absolved and penance served to be forgiven by God. That’s why He instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation 2 Cor 5:18-19, Jn 20:21-23, Mt 17:18, 28:18-20, 16:18-19. If you die with mortal sin you chose to be separated from God eternally. If you die with venial sin, you can be saved but only by the purge of fire. 1 Cor 3:15, Mt 5:21-26. Nothing impure can enter Heaven. Rev 21:27
very good. Just two comments: Penance, after reconciliation, can be anything your priest decides (with your consultation), it need not necessarily be prayers. Once when I confessed gluttony, he told me to go through 2 days, eating 3 healthy meals a day with no snacks, whenever I was tempted and to offer up my sufferings to God. It was a clever penance as after 48 hours I had passed that critical moment of weakness. My only other point, query really is that Rev 21:27 refers to the New Earth (after the old one has passed away). I'm sure one can find a better Scripture reference referring to us here and now, on this earth?
WHEN a born again Christian has BEEN REDEMED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST they are his 4 ever like my self. ALL my trust is in Jesus Christ ONLY not in ANY WORKS of mine
@@clivejames5058 Rev 21:27 refers that Jesus Christ said nothing or nobody impure can enter Heaven, period.
@@theodoreritola7641 We aren’t supposed to trust in our works. We’re just supposed to do His works and He will judge us accordingly. We are only saved by loving God enough to live His Commandments, Church, Sacraments, Doctrine, Teaching, having faith, doing His work, receiving His grace, love & unfathomable mercy! He taught if we don’t remain in His Church and His Doctrine that He set in His One True Apostolic Catholic Church, We DO NOT HAVE HIM.
2 Jn1:9, Rom16:17, Heb13:9, 2Thess3:6-16, Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-4
If we don’t receive His Sacraments, we will never enter Heaven.
Jn 3:5, 6:51-59, 1 Cor 11:23-29, 2 Cor 5:18-20, Jn 20:21-23, Mt 18:17-18 are a few of them.
Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and Scribes for making their own version of His One True Church and Doctrine, just like all 44,000 other Christian Churches and other Faiths have done. Mt 23:1-39, Lk 11:37-54
I NOTICE YOU DONT LIKE TO TALK ABOUT REDEMPTION WHY? You are sooo lost
trent has to take this position, because the roman catholic church is a works-based church, not fully accepting salvation is by faith through grace in Jesus Christ alone (stated clearly in the counsel of trent). if you don't do this, don't do that, you can lose your salvation, according to the roman catholic church. this is also why they have divisions of sin (venial, mortal, ect.).
The Catechism clearly teaches that we are only saved by God’s mercy, our works cannot save us. Essentially, as long as you have faith in Christ and do not die in an unrepentant state of mortal sin, you will be saved.
Much love, God Bless ❤️✝️
If we could lose salvation then none of us would have salvation right now . I hate when people preach this false doctrine of condemnation!!! We WERE NEVER SAVED BY OUR OWN WORKS BUT BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS, and as the same can’t lose salvation by just sinning, meaning that Jesus sacrafice wasn’t enough to cover all sin, making him seem as though he doesn’t cover all sin when he does
So you can believe in Christ and murder people every day without repentance and go to heaven?
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
@@porticusthepoetfrom the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Are you telling us you have murder in your heart?
@@HillbillyBlackat what point are we finished then? How many works? Quantify it. One sin is enough to go to hell. We all broke the law. You can't justify yourself by going back an d trying to keep it now.
Judge I stole from many people but I haven't stolen in a long time so can we pretend I never stole at all?😂
@@YakmonSaysItLikeItIs I don’t think you read what I wrote. You are going to go back and reread it and go “oh I misread that lol“
John 8:10. When Jesus asked the adultress where are her accusers to condemn her? She says there was no one there, Lord (believer). Then neither will I condemn you. Go and sin 'no more'.
Why would Jesus make that statement? What if she went right back to commiting adultery, a mortal sin? Are you telling me her unrepentent heart is saved?
We are all sinners and Jesus grace and salvation thru his blood means we are saved, but we have to strive to be sinless and when we recognize we have sinned, repent and reconcile ourselves. He will forgive all sins.
WHEN was the last time you sinned Chas?
Chas do u know if Jesus Chrst has redeemed you yet ? or are you still WORKING 4 your salvation?
what if she cussed got mad at her friend are those SINS Chas ?
SHE LIKE every one else needs to put all their trust in Jesus Christ only ONLYBY BELIEVING IN his death barial and resurection and He did that for them PERSONALYThen you atre born again ansd SAVED 4 EVER The words of Jesus Christ in John ch3 vs 16 CHILD LIKE FAITH ON STERIODS
How can a Catholic believe that he could lose his salvation, when he can’t know if he is saved to begin with? According to Catholic doctrine to think one is saved is a sin of presumption. So sad. 1 John 5:13, These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” King James Bible.
The parable of the sheep and the goats is blasphemy against the glorious doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved".
Matthew 10:22
and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 13:21
yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away.
Matthew 24:13
But anyone who endures to the end will be saved.
Mark 13:13
and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
@lisafosse6031
The wording is yours, so the conception is also yours.
All of us are saved through Baptism. What you do with this grace is up to you. I can passage pick too but to what end?
It isn't one passage in the Bible we are supposed to follow...but all of them.
BTW your passage doesn't say we are 'saved' and it doesn't say you are free to sin, and you still go to heaven- can't lose your salvation in your jargon.
"...but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;...." Jesus is the judge; not us. The sin of presumption comes from either judging others or even oneself as saved or damned; and not from being somewhat reasonably assured you are in a state of Grace (ie. saved). Catholics are taught what is necessary for Salvation, on how to form ones good conscience and how to examine ones conscience and life to see if they are living the gospel. If I do this faithfully I can be reasonably assured of my salvation; and feel confident I am doing everything Jesus has asked of me; then I can trust Jesus will judge me accordingly.
You however are in a much more precarious position. Your whole Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is an unproven false man-made theology born out of the protestant rebellion of the One True Faith in recent history. Even Protestants among themselves cannot agree on this false theology. You don't even have a recognized valid authority with any connection to the early Church or the Apostles to even back up your claims. The one who is truly sad here is you!! Even the bible you use (KJV) is an error-ridden man-made concoction; so if you are using this as an 'authority'; you have real problems.
Time for you to re-think the things you believe are the gospel; for in truth they are not.
listen here very careful st Paul included himself even though we all know that he was true believer who was predestined as taught on Galatians 1:15 but st Paul said (but even if "WE" thus including Paul himself) preach different gospel let him be cursed/go to hell as other versions Stated,st Paul here was aware that if he preach different gospel he himself dispite being predestined he can be cursed or in other words he can be condemned to hell,so if a true believer like Paul says like this, where you people do you take this doctrine of once saved always saved?
(NIV)Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
(AMP)Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!
(GNT)Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel that is different from the one we preached to you, may he be condemned to hell!
Galatians 1:15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased
John uses the word “if” about 20 times before the ending line. “If you love your brother”, “if you do not sin” etc. he’s talking about believers having confidence in their salvation if their life reflects it. He’s not saying someone is still saved if they turn away from faith or walk away. And many people do.
There is on 1 sin that God will not forgive and that us not it.
Mark 3:21-29
[21]And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
[22]And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
[23]And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
[24]And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
[25]And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
[26]And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
[27]No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
[28]Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
[29]But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
HERES THE PART WHERE IT IS UNFORGIVABLE⬇️
Mark 3:30
[30]Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Jesus Christ is not on earth now so we can't do that sin.
God is omnipotent, he cannot fail. If you could lose salvation it would disgrace Jesus Christ, and The Father would never allow that. Repent and turn to the Father.
Anyone who doesn't believe in once saved always saved us damned to hell. If once saved always saved is a falsehood, why does Jesus says in
John "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
Why does it say in Ephesians 1:13-14
"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having BELIEVED, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the GUARANTEE of our INHERITANCE until the REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION, to the praise of His glory"
And why does Paul say "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”
The opposite of grace through faith is works which Paul says does not justify before God
"Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" The problem here is you dont actually trust Christ.
Ok It’s a Covenant Would You be Faithful enough For these Promises ?
Either You die in sin or You die in Christ Jesus
@sny8317 what do you mean? The only time "die in sin" is ever even mentioned in the Bible is when Jesus says "for if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins," so we see once again that dying in sins is simply unbelieving. They didn't believe that He was the messiah, the Son of God, it has nothing to do with actually sinning as sinning is something we do everyday whether we realize it or not. 1 john says "if any man says he is without sin, he is a liar and the truth is not in him." Understand I am not giving the green light for someone to live in sin, but what I'm saying is that thinking sin has something to do with salvation is a horrendous misunderstanding of what christ actually did on the cross. HE PAID OUR SIN DEBT!that's why he declared IT IS FINISHED, what was finished? The payment for sin! That's why faith alone is the only option, because you are just trusting what he did for you that it worked, and after you believe ephesians says you are "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION" that is a definite statement with no caviot or wiggle room. To say you can lose salvation is to imply that salvation was earned by you somehow, and now you have to earn it back which makes no sense because JESUS did everything. Again ephesians says salvation is "NOT OF YOURSELVES it is a GIFT of God not of WORKS."
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@@HillbillyBlack well, that was a lot. Do you know what grace means?
@@jsam1997 its a gift of the divine favour in the salvation of sinners, and the divine influence operating in individuals for their regeneration and sanctification.
The question I have is how could a christian just leave and not want to return? That's why this doesn't make sense because I true christian biblically is one who is guarded for salvation through faith, god the father, the son, and the holy spirit working in that person. There is no way that person can casually leave and fall away, is this what your saying? But the real question is and that it comes down to is can the true christian have a chance to return or be renewed if they have sinned greatly and no it? Or is there a sin that leads to the loss of repentance and damnation?
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@HillbillyBlack I agree for the most part, but to say that because we're born again, we won't sin. Doesn't that make it works again? Doesn't God give us free will? And does God allow his Holly name to be outraged by someone who knows him personally and by whom God knows all their thoughts and they no it? If God is holly isn't there have to be a place we're we put ourselves in danger again under sin? Otherwise what's the point of all the scripture pointing us to christ and to endure in him. I only say this because I myself was born again walking in obedience to God and believed everything your saying. I greatly grieved the Holy spirit and myself and fell away I'm no longer walking in fellowship with God the way I was because he was holy and I strayed I didn't want to submit everything to him. So God is not one to be played with I've seen.
@@tylere5817 where did I say we wouldn’t sin again?
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
@HillbillyBlack thanks so much for the reply. Please read all this. I'll try and make it quick? I plead and tell you I once walked that walk, please belive me. I was growing in the Lord, and so was my assurance and fruit in my life. I was saved radically from my old life of complete chaos, skizofrenia, and utter darkness. Were i didnt know if i was god at one moment or if someone was trying to kill me the next because my trust for humans had become nothing. Including my own parents. When I was dead to god, god made me spiritually alive in him he did a permanent work in my heart he gave me the love of christ that satisfied me. and i had the same belief and full assurance as you are expressing in your writing now. I fully believed god would never leave me, and i was strong in fellowship with brothers in christ, and we mutilually encouraged one another in our walk daily. I was called and had a great future ahead of me. I hade the peace of god wich surpasses understanding. But, i started doing things in the world like watching worldy movies and not giving god my all. The holy spirit was by no means quit he was always there showing me my sin and Christ's love every time i disobeyed him. Until one day i started looking at porn because of the stress i was under in my walk. God came to me about the fifth time viewing it and made it clear to me what i was doing if i continued in that sin one more time. I new i would be putting myself under the influence of sin by taking that one more step and making that choice against god and that god would leave me. But out of fear i blocked my spirituall ears and did it anyway. now I have no evidence of the spirit in my life since I fell away 9 years ago. So I'm convinced when I disobeyed gods word I lost salvation as evidence that I have been able to live the flesh and not understand the things of God since I was saved. I canot confess first john 1 nine and belive it in my heart the way I could before. I completely went astray and it was night and day between the two realities. Can a christian live in sin? No gods spirit is in them. So as evidence that I fell away I could entertain sin without the same fear of God i had before that kept me safe in christ. The fear I have now is not the fear of God that leads to life but just dredd and shame. I hope you belive what I'm saying. Do you belive I fell away?
Judas Iscariot appeared to be a true Christian for 3+ years. He appeared every bit as genuine as the other 11 Disciples did. Yet he never really was truly saved!
Very true!
Judas could not have been saved. Jesus had not died at that time.
@@treasuresrelieffoundationThey were held to the old covenant at the time and he was following it. He'd of gone to Heaven up until the point where he made the conscious decision to not be a good person.
@@treasuresrelieffoundationJesus died for everyone, even before His death. I thought this was widely known among all Christians.
Salvation was retroactive and it depended on the knowledge these past people could have. Hebrews 11 & 12 mention several Old Testament figures being saved. The thief on the cross was saved.
Judas Iscariot was never truly saved. He was hard hearted and wanted things to go his way. He literally turned his back on Jesus. He fell into the hands of the enemy.
Nothing can separate is from God's love. The context is his saving love. John says he was never of us. So though they claimed to believe, they never believed like true believers. There is a difference between a faith that God gives us vs a faith that comes from ourselves. Our faith is not capable of truly believing in all situations. As you used the example of the seeds, real faith, that which is a gift from God, will endure. Those whose faith comes from within, will eventually fail.
When someone is truly saved they can't lose their Salvation. The natural response from the recipient is to do good works. Sanctification and fruit producing will happen in their life, Repentance and faith in Jesus. We are saved by His grace through Jesus Christ. They will endure in their faith until the end. If someone backslides like we all do, the truly saved end up always coming back and enduring. If someone falls away forever they were never truly saved.
We receive a new heart, reborn, when truly saved. That new heart desires his righteousness. The natural response to a truly saved person is good works. Good works isn't what saves you. Its the response of receiving Salvation. We love Him therefore we obey Him. None of us could live up to the his moral law. We broke God's law. Jesus paid the fine.
Many people say they are saved but they fall away and fruits were never produced. They were not truly saved. The seed did not take root.
Through our working out of Salvation, we aren't sinless but we sin LESS
So true, well worded.
Even the best saved person in the world could break on of the ten commandments willfully.
Gods grace is sufficient for us. It is He who took initiation because we cant as fallen being. Nothing in this world can separate us from Him. Accepting christ as lord and savior means denying oneself and following him. Not simply believing and making confession because emotionally drifted. Demons also believes in Jesus as Christ. Most drifted away never accepted him as Lord and savior which is following him. He demanded people to repent/ turn around from their wickedness and follow him. Thats why it seems many people are losing salvation. Never underestimate the power of Gods grace.
OSAS is a false teaching.
John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.
We have to live for God by following His Commandments, Teaching and receive The Sacraments He instituted to get into Heaven. Jesus said unless we eat of His Body and drink His Blood In Holy Communion, we will never enter Heaven, we will have no life us. Jn 6:52-59
Where is Jesus speaking in John 52-59? It wasn't at the last supper. He was teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Ask your priest how can he reconcile (Hebrews 9:22) with the Eucharist. "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin." The catechism says, the Eucharist forgives sin (Catechism 1393). But it's an unbloody sacrifice. See the dilemma 😫. What are your thoughts? Thank you.
@@Disciple793 Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the Holy Spirit has offered himself, immaculate, to God, cleanse our conscience from dead works, in order to serve the living God?
Hebrews 9:15 And thus he is the Mediator of the new testament, so that, by his death, he intercedes for the redemption of those transgressions which were under the former testament, so that those who have been called may receive the promise of an eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is confirmed by death. Otherwise, it as yet has no force, as long as the one who testifies lives.
Hebrews 9:18 Therefore, indeed, the first was not dedicated without blood.
1 Corinthians 11:23 For I have received from the Lord what I have also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus, on the same night that he was handed over, took bread,
1 Corinthians 11:24 and giving thanks, he broke it, and said: “Take and eat. This is my body, which shall be given up for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
1 Corinthians 11:25 Similarly also, the cup, after he had eaten supper, saying: “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
1 Corinthians 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord, until he returns.
1 Corinthians 11:27 And so, whoever eats this bread, or drinks from the cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be liable of the body and blood of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and, in this way, let him eat from that bread, and drink from that cup.
1 Corinthians 11:29 For whoever eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks a sentence against himself, not discerning it to be the body of the Lord.
Luke 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks and broke it and gave it to them, saying: “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this as a commemoration of me.”
Luke 22:20 Similarly also, he took the chalice, after he had eaten the meal, saying: “This chalice is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.
Hebrews 9:22 reconciles to ***The Eucharist as The Passion of Christ was bloody. His sacrifice was not blood of goats and cows, but His own precious blood therefore attaining eternal redemption.
If you have further questions visit CatholicAnswers online or consult a Catholic Priest. I see you have no content on your account and I don’t discuss anything with bots.
Keep the Lords commandments or the ones that were given to Moses?
@@777atys6 Our Lords Commandments are the ones given to Moses and Gods Church. You cannot pick verses out of context to fit your narrative. There’s interesting articles on the subject @ Catholic Answers online.
@@southernlady1109
Read Acts 15:5
King James Version
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the LAW of Moses
These pharasis were trying to put a yoke of bondage on the new believers, and they were tempting God by doing this, because they wanted them to keep these commandments read the rest of the verses to verse 10... see for yourself.
Now Let us see what Commandments Jesus is talking about;
Matthew 12:30-31
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
1 John 3:23
King James Version
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Well, actually, in the parable of the sower of seed, there is only one seed that bore fruit, which is the evidence of salvation. The shallow soil response and the seed that was choked out, never grew to maturity and never bore fruit. Likewise, when the wheat and tares grow up together, tares may look like wheat, but they are in fact not wheat, and God will separate them out. 🙏
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
A true Christian cannot lose their salvation. If it’s not by our own works that we become saved, then it’s not by our own works to lose our salvation. Those who were never really Christian’s can lose their “salvation” cause they never really believed
You’re wrong
Yes you got it
@@dailyprojections7197 bro, show me one verse that’s not out of context showing we can actually lose ur salvation, and don’t bring up the “I never knew you” because those people NEVER knew him, it didn’t say you did know me then u fell away, read Roman’s where it says those who have been called, have been predestined, those who have been predestined have been justified, those who have been justified will be glorified. We are PREDESTINED to be saved, don’t get me wrong we still have free will but god also knows who’s saved and who isn’t. There’s no scripture showing we can lose salvation
100%
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
Yes, I lost him forever 💔
True true
You are a genius bro! Underrated comment.
@@humberto4344 thanks buddy!
I think the issue here is that people have different definitions for "losing your salvation". What Trent describes as losing salvation sounds like walking away from it to me. Losing salvation implies that it's gone for good for a lot of people, which isn't so.
Lets talk REDEMPTION when A Cristian has been REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRISTY ,They KNOW they are his 4 ever. end of this stupid DEBATE
Believe to be saved. Period.
the sinner thats BORN AGAIN CAN NEVER UN LOSE THIER REDEMPTION PERIOD, OSAS IS THE GOSPEL IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT GO TELL JESUS CHRIST HIS BLOOD IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH,I KNOW,,,, I HAVE ,,,,,BEEN PASTENCE BEEN REDEEMED IT IS FINISHED OUT OF THE MOTH OF MY REDEEMER THE LORD JESUS CHRIST MY PERSONAL HERO
tHeN tHeY wErE nEvER sAvED
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. (John 10:28-29)
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40)
@@matthewodonnell6495 All that is true. If you have a calvinist interpretation of those passages, then they do not definitely support it.
@@MasterKeyMagic you don’t have to have a Calvinist interpretation. The scripture speaks for itself. God saves for His glory, and no one can thwart His work
@@matthewodonnell6495 Thats not what the text says though. And if you make the claim that the Bible does not contradict itself, it can't mean irresistible grace. No one can take away your salvation except you.
If at any point in time you have eternal life......and then somehow lose it later you never had it since it is eternal and whoever told you this was lying.......
100%
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
Eternal Life is not actually attained till the end. We are walking towards it today but can leave the path at any point due to free will
@@JrVargas13 Catholic BS
@@harlow743 Mat 10:22 KJV - 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
@@JrVargas13 ecome children of God--
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
Exactly 💯% We CAN lose our salvation..
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi3880
👉 EZEKIEL 18:24
Romans 6:13-15
Philippians 2:12-13
John 14:15
Matt 7:21
Matthew 24:13
Our battle on earth is real, and don't be assuming your saved while we are still here in this world.
👉 Ephesians 6 12
@Jesus Christ Is My Lord And Savior The parable of the sheep and the goats is blasphemy against the glorious doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved".
Matthew 10:22
and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 13:21
yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away.
Matthew 24:13
But anyone who endures to the end will be saved.
Mark 13:13
and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi3880 are you reading the bible passage as a whole or your just plain 🍒🍒 verses that would make you feel better?🧐🧐
Plain and simple... Those can't keep God's commandments will perish..
Because our actions speaks loudest than words..
👉 James 2: 14, 21, 24, 26
Romans 2:13
All Followers of Christ follow all His commandments, they didn't just sit back and relax and just listen to the word of God, But rather a doer.
@@LuminousTwinHearts 1 John 11-12 "And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life." I understand from the words "gave" and "eternal" that it was given in the past, and it is eternal, so it never ends. How am I to understand differently?
@@LuminousTwinHearts Ephesians 1:11-14 "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." I also understand from the words "predestined" here and "sealed" that it is a permanent thing. How am I to understand differently?
We have to identify what salvation is. Salvation is the restoration of the Holy Spirit of God, first lost when Adam sinned, to those who are born again of the Spirit of God through faith in Jesus Christ. And because of the eternal redemption of the cross there is no sin that will result in God removing His life from us. Therefore, we have eternal life. A life that carries us while we are alive, through death, and for eternity. That's why we cannot lose our salvation.
Perfectly said brother
The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
You can’t lose the gift because the gift didn’t come from you and if you could lose it from sin then Jesus and John would be a liar.
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 6:37 ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 6:39-40 ESV
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. [40] For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
Do keep in mind that true regeneration comes with it marked behavior. And this is not a willed behavior of your own accord. This is all the causality of God.
1 John 3:9 esv/ greek interl
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he is not able to keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1 Corinthians 12:3 ESV
Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.
So we have the marked promise of salvation and the seal of salvation and the promise from Jesus of salvation and the reason why it’s secure based on what it looks like and what we are unable to do. If you’re struggling with salvation security, read Hebrews 12:4-8. Struggle with sin is the mark of salvation.
God promised this salvation long before this new covenant
Ezekiel 36:26-27
No psalm 89 says if messiah's children walk not in my statutes and judgments sin. I'll chasten but not utterly remove my kindness! Show that to your teachers. I won't remove my kindness even if they sin. Grace heaven is a gift to those who believe
A false convert is someone who claims to be saved but they become Apostate by leaving the faith. A true saved believer cannot lose their salvation. Peter was a Apostate by denying Jesus. Judas Iscariot was never saved from the beginning. When you are saved you are sealed until redemption.
Amen
The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
You can’t lose the gift because the gift didn’t come from you and if you could lose it from sin then Jesus and John would be a liar.
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 6:37 ESV
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 6:39-40 ESV
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. [40] For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
Do keep in mind that true regeneration comes with it marked behavior. And this is not a willed behavior of your own accord. This is all the causality of God.
1 John 3:9 esv/ greek interl
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he is not able to keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1 Corinthians 12:3 ESV
Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.
So we have the marked promise of salvation and the seal of salvation and the promise from Jesus of salvation and the reason why it’s secure based on what it looks like and what we are unable to do. If you’re struggling with salvation security, read Hebrews 12:4-8. Struggle with sin is the mark of salvation.
God promised this salvation long before this new covenant
Ezekiel 36:26-27
Maybe try reading Romans 8:35-39 again .
@@BaronVonPwn well yeah, you always have the ability to return and have a relationship with god. But you cannot have a relationship with god if you do not accept his word and go against it without repenting
If you couldn't lose your salvation then what would be the point of trying
to keep it?
Cause my friend we want to please God but believers still sin look at Peter Jesus said if you deny knowing him he'll deny you what did Peter do he denied knowing Jesus 3 times back to back but do you think he lost he's salvation no cause he repented we have to keep burying the old man every day as Paul said
@@jessebrown149 I was not asking. I know you CAN lose your salvation! If you are called by Father and chose not to endure 'til the end, you think you still have a crown waiting on you in the kingdom?
@2ch.thenazaritelifestyle I know I do and jesus himself said u can't lose your salvation how can a person lose something they can't give their self only jesus can give salvation and he's the only one who can take it the disciples sinned after they were save so did Paul do you think they went to hell I don't think so
Because it is Gods work, not our own.
Because it is Gods work, not our own.
Are you sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise ?
1 Cor 12:3 establishes that no one can say, "Jesus is Lord" except by the Spirit. It seems to me very difficult to explain how it could be the case that some one like Derek Webb, a former lead singer for a Christian band who announced his apostasy publicly, was never saved in the first place. I haven't scoured his recordings or statements to see if he ever claimed Jesus is Lord, but it seems absurd to speculate that he never did or that he never evinced other fruits of the Spirit. It's admittedly a very simplistic argument. Derek is still with us and it remains to be seen whether he will return, however his statements about waiting for God to cause him to return are tragic. This is by no means the strongest argument against ES, but it does cast some doubt on the validity of that view, in my opinion.
anyone can profess that Jesus is Lord, they just can't confess it without the Spirit of Christ in them. Read the context in scripture.
This is why devils cannot confess that Jesus is the Saviour our redeemer the Messiah. But they can surely call him Son of the Most High,
@@brohuggie2978
_"...they just can't confess it without the Spirit of Christ in them."_
That's precisely my point.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
@HillbillyBlack there's no assurance of salvation in so-called reformed theology because for all you know, you could be a reprobate whom God is deceiving into believing that you are elect for His purposes and you won't find out until the judgement. Derek Webb most likely professed by the Spirit that Christ is Lord and over time, due to being consistent with his erroneous theology, hardened his heart and apostatized.
@@AndrewKeifer God doesn’t deceive nor is he the author of confusion.
1 John 4:7 ESV
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
Salvation is a behavioral regeneration.
1 John 4:9 ESV
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
Love is manifested by God. Those saved are compelled to natural christian behavior.
Salvation is a blood covered righteousness. Not a self effort righteousness through Christ.
Additionally all those hardened in scripture are hardened from a non regenerate state. In other words, scripture never describes believers hardening to apostasy. In context, jesus is speaking to unbelieving Pharisees who were unbelieving already.
Here’s the big dilemma…- how can Jesus say “i never knew you” in a world where mortal sin and reconciliation can make one flip flop in and out of salvation? The statement is “never knew you” but salvation is knowing him. if you can lose salvation, then for a time you “knew” jesus then didn’t thus making the “never knew you” claim a lie.
The Bible talks about deadly sins (which separate you from God) and not so deadly sins (which don't separate you from God). We're not flip flopping in and out of salvation. All we have to do is not commit a deadly sin and if we do, we need to repent. It's actually not that hard, if a saved Christian.
@@clivejames5058 I dont read much conflict with salvation security in the Patristic Fathers. I don’t suspect it was a topic of conversation back then. Most Catholics say that eternal security was a recent development. I think those for and against Christ were more obvious in Ancient church given the level of persecution compared to today. It’s harder to tell who’s truly saved and who isn’t in the first world country, no? But if you’re actively on the run in the persecuted church, those willing to go to their death, as scripture proclaims, are more obvious. The sheep and the goats stand out more.
allow me to make the case
John 5:24 - Jesus
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and BELIEVES him who sent me HAS eternal life. He DOES NOT come into judgment, but HAS PASSED from death to life.
Notice the finality of this statement. “Has eternal life”. Can someone have eternal life then lose it? “Does not come into judgment but - has passed - from DEATH to LIFE”. Can one pass to life then retrace back and pass back into death? All of scripture shows we are dead in sin, hostile to God and then “made alive”. So then can we be made “dead” again in sin and return to hostility with God? Scripture says NO.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
There is very little human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit. If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@@clivejames5058 Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
@@clivejames5058 When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
The bible says "he who has begun a good work in you will be faithful to finish it unto the day of the Lord Jesus Christ" whatever God starts he finishes then do you see God saying "oh I started saving that human and now ive changed my mind I think I will condemn them instead" yet bible says "therefore there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus" and "Its not in Gods will that any should perish" and as for sin "it is not I who sin but sin that dwells in me" and "if sin abounds grace abounds also" then this - Christians dont go to hell as long as they are not christian flavoured satanists aka satanists aka wolves in sheeps clothing. If you dont want to be a wolf in sheeps clothing and you really want to be saved and want to please God then you are more than likely saved . It is impossible to please God without faith bible says so and we are saved by faith not by the law Abels faith sacrifice offering pleased God whereas Cain's law abiding did not kill plant sacrifice offering did not please God and Cain zealous for the law and angry with his brother for murdering the animal sacrifice which was a kill not murder then made Cain commit murder which a correlation can be found from legalistic so called christians offering the law (plants) then wanting to kill christians salvations that are by faith(symbolic of Abels faith offering) by saying "you are not saved by faith" often these are angry enough to kill or at least condemn like Cain. You cant evangelise properly if you have not got Gods gift of salvation. Which it is a gift Gods precious amazing gift and if you tried evangelising this way "Id like to ask you if you would receive Christ and maybe be saved, because you could lose your salvation we dont really know" does that not sound stupid? So if you evangelise and you know that once you have recieved salvation you well and truely have it which is why its wonderful and an awesome gift then you can evangelise and see people come to Christ explaining that the gift is so good you can know you are saved. Christians come to Christ because God puts it in their will to be saved he gives them the desire to be saved so that its God that has saved them otherwise they have saved themselves which is impossible it is only by Christ you can be saved and God will not give his glory to another.
Can Jesus lose a Christian who is truly saved? Can Jesus lose a born-again Christian?
@@RLSTH-camChannels no. Unlike catholics, we christians put our faith in jesus
So nothing in all of creation , not powers ,principalites nothing except the almighty self can snatch someone out of the Father's Hand ,
The Word clearly says that we have been given the earnest ( deposit ) of the Holy Spirit until we come into our full inheritance , so if a true christian can loose their salvation then God would cease to be God as the third Person of the Holy Trinity would cease ( or be forfeit )
This person completely misses the point of being regenerated by God’s eternal life. If we are children of God, regenerated by Him through our faith in Christ and accepting His redemptive work on the cross, then we have God's eternal life within us and cannot lose that life; otherwise, it wouldn’t be eternal. Therefore, we cannot face perdition-we are saved from it-because that life, by definition, cannot perish. Consider what God did right after Adam's fall: He shielded eternal life from him. Why? Because if Adam had partaken of it, he would have lived forever in his terrible, fallen, and unredeemed state. That would have been eternal suffering. Now, however, we are redeemed through Christ's sacrifice on the cross and, thanks to that, by having received the eternal life of God we are fully saved both from the sufferings and from perdition.
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
No, a truly saved Christian can't lose their salvation
John 3:16
John 5:24
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
John 1:12 KJV
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
I Stand for my Faith that You cannot lose your Salvation!
The authors of the Bible said you could lose your grace, especially if you don't do the works so. Good luck with avoiding being a good person
@@MasterKeyMagic Hello there Brother but the Bible said in Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
"Not of works, lest any man should
boast."
So Salvation is definitely not of Works! It's about the Finished Work of Jesus Christ in the Cross❤
@@ralphadriandeleon8400 Except thats not what it means. If you read the whole bible, you'll come to the same conclusion the authors of the bible did. which is NOT faith alone. do you know a book better than its own authors?
@@ralphadriandeleon8400We we’re saved by Faith but If You sin then you’re disconnected from God ;
Repent and Be connected again otherwise you will also perish
Truly Born Again or deceived by Satan? Big Question
I found this to be a helpful and insightful video. Thank you!
And no, if someone claims regeneration, and then goes and lives like a devil, they were never saved to begin with. You will know them by their fruit. And fruit is a persevering quality that continues to the end.
I don’t believe there’s anything called backslidden state in the church. I don’t think it’s even possible if you’re truly in Christ. A believer can come to deep deep, wrong sin yes like fornication or adultery, but that doesn’t invalidate salvation. The beleiver will come back. The believer will experience great turmoil from That Sin. Hebrews 12:5-8
Trent, what I hear from you constantly is human logic or fathers logic trying to understand that what you probably don’t have, which is the Holy Spirit. I don’t mean this mean. The fact of the matter is every Catholic that relies on church history to justify themselves or their church Misses the point of the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
As a born-again believer in Christ, only 13 months now, I can tell you that the revelation of Christ has aligned me effortlessly with reformed theology without being guided or leaned on or pushed or influenced whatsoever. When I read scripture , and I let scripture speak for itself, it does not read like a Catholic Bible.
The Bible, holy scripture, written by the apostles, reads like a man stranded on an island, realizing the grace sovereignty of God.
The Catholic will never understand us, until they understand the sovereignty of God. Strive to enter the narrow gate for many will try and fail.
So You’re saying that If someone Has Has been regenerated then He can never disobey God ;
Come on man stop lying ;
We have the choice whether to Obey Him or disobey Him and We will get the Consequences Thereof ;
Either You will Obey Yourself to please yourself or You will deny Yourself and Obey God
@@DrJacob-z6l can you quote where I said the regenerate can never disobey God?
@@DrJacob-z6l being a follower of Christ in a true regenerated state benefits the believer the capacity to feel the subjected saturated influences of the Holy Spirit. Within this state, a believer can choose to obey or disobey. The difference between unregenerate and regenerate is that simple. What is your relationship with sin?
When you are a true believer in Christ, you are a son of God. You are subjected to the discipline of God through conviction, and sometimes life punishment. But just because you’re subjected to the punishment of God does not mean that you’re in danger of losing salvation.
Much of the Catholic Church reinterpret scripture to fit tradition rather than taking in scripture contextually.
Not all of Rome is in error, but when it comes to the salvific standards of the gospel, Rome falls short.
An example, 1st John 5:16. Go read that, but paraphrasing it says to not pray for the individual whose sin leads to death. If you isolate this verse from the context of the book/letter of 1st John, you can dogmatically inflate this statement to mean, whatever you want.
However, if you read the entire letter within context, it’s clear that John is speaking dynamically of the nature of sin, in relation to those who are believers and unbelievers. The key, the catalyst, is understanding which verse pertains to who what when and where. In the second chapter, John speaks of those who went out from us who are not really of us. Then John concludes in chapter 5 the reason they were not of us is because they were committing a sin that leads to death. This sin is apostasy spoken of by Christ to the Pharisees, called blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Send that leads to death is not mortal sin, but rather rejection of Christ.
If you study scripture long enough in its entirety, including the Torah, you will notice that all sin is mortal, for all sin causes us to fall short of the glory of God. Paul says The wages of sin is DEATH. John speaks of the Sin that leads to DEATH. Its about scriptural consistency. How do we escape the Death sin yields???
Christ took care of sin on the cross. He became sin so that in him we might know righteousness. This is not righteousness of ourselves, or righteousness of works best effort, but rather righteousness of imputation.
We obey God as a result of a state of grace, rather than to earn or maintain Grace moment by moment.
Lastly, there are NO eternal consequences of disobeying God beyond lack of reward. There are only corporeal consequences on earth.
Romans 8:1 says there is now therefore, no condemnation, (as in no hell) for those who are in Christ Jesus.
No eternal consequence, no need to clean yourself up to be worthy of heaven in purgatory, the work is done. If you understand Romans, you’ll understand very quickly that sin is not attached to the spirit but of the flesh. When we die, we do not take the flesh with us. Therefore, there is nothing to clean up in heaven. As believers we are in constant battle between the spirit and the flesh. It is the flesh that sins where ad the spirit is cleansed by the Holy Spirit of God and made blameless through the imputation of Christ, making us righteous through his righteous covering. Sin does not follow us past the grave.
Obedience is a result, not something you do to keep. Romans is clear that all of our works yield a do it is outside of salvation.
Romans 4:4-5 ESV
Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. [5] And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
We are made justified by faith and Faith yields results, but results do not justify us. The lawlessness of mankind is made perfect by faith for those who are truly repentant in Christ Jesus.
Romans 4:7-8 ESV
"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; [8] blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."
To echo, Romans 8:1, sin can no longer be counted against the individual who is in Christ Jesus. And buddy, let me tell you, believers in Christ probably send more often than unbelievers but the ones and they don’t commit is rejection of Christ, which makes all the difference.
Believers should strive to sin less, but salvation is not contingent upon doing so
@@DrJacob-z6l When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
Salvation is a Covenant by God, not a contract with man.
Jesus says that the new Testament is in His blood, it is a covenant vow made by the blood of God (Acts 20:28). (Testament literally means “Covenant” in the original Greek - The Old and New Covenant/Testament)
Luke 22:20) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
1Corinthians 11:25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
Hebrews 12:24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
John 1:12-13) "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." - not by our blood, but the blood of God. Not by our will or power, but only of God. As Jesus said "no man can pluck you out of my hand" that means you cannot pluck yourself out either - not by your will. You cannot walk away/give up the faith (become unsaved again).
2 Timothy 2:13) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Salvation is not about what we do or keep or abstain from, it is solely based on what you have believed. 1John 5:13) "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
As it says "THAT YE MAY KNOW" absolute assurance of your salvation, and this is because you have believed.
John 1:13) "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
It has nothing to do with our abilities of anything, salvation is only by the power of God which comes upon us when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:9-10) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Acts 10:43) To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Ephesians 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
John 3:16-17) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 5:20) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
John 1:13) “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
Eph 1:7 / Acts 10:43 / Eph 1:13 & 4:30 /
Salvation is a free gift, no maintenance, no earning of favor, and once given it cannot be taken away. Ephesians 4:30) "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."- if we do grieve Him we just confess and we are cleansed. The Father doesn't disown the wayward child, but like the prodigal son the goodness of God leads us to repentance and cleansing - When did the prodigal son cease to be a son of the Father?
Salvation is NOT by works, NOT by righteous works, NOT by deeds of the law, and NOT by sight. But by Faith alone, through Grace alone, by Jesus Christ who is God alone -
Titus 3:5 / Ephesians 2:8-9 / Galatians 2:16 / 2 Corinthians 5:7 / Romans 1:17 / Romans 6:14 / Hebrews 10:38.
Romans 10:9-10) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
After believing and repenting you are sealed/saved, then because of your love for Christ you want to follow Him. Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30 - It's not because you have to but because you want to.
Any idea of self merit affecting salvation in earning to gain, maintaining to keep, or self atonement for sins is heresy and the person is not saved. The same goes for believing that Baptism saves, forgives, or seals with the Spirit - it's still a belief in a form of righteous works that affects salvation - this is heresy too. It's all through Christ's merit on the Cross and His Resurrection, or else through attempting in your own merit you earn Hell.
And this Salvation can never be lost or taken away - Romans 8:1 no condemnation unto those in Christ. Any sin after that brings chastisement, not disowning or a casting away. John 15:1-6 is paired with 1Cor 5:1-5 / Psalm 66:18 / Prov 28:9 / James 1:6-7 nowhere does it relate to losing salvation or having it being taken away.
James 2 is not talking about works to keep your salvation, but rather it's talking to Christians already saved, and it's talking about charity and Christian behavior for promotion of the faith, not maintenance of salvation. If James is talking about maintaining salvation then Apostle Paul is a liar.
Matthew 24 is speaking about the end of days and the trials and tribulations that will occur. "endure to the end" is in reference to the Great Tribulation, as it is a limited time and will soon be over and those under persecution will be saved from the oppression. It is not a salvationary passage, Christ is not talking about salvation but rather persecution. It's the same context as the other passage that says how a woman will be saved in child bearing - talking about the pains and troubles.
Hebrews 6:4-6 and 10:26 is speaking about the unsaved falling away (rejecting) enlightenment, the knowledge of , the taste of salvation - they had not yet taken hold. This does not relate to the saved giving up or losing salvation as many think. Losing Salvation, or it being taken away, given up - denotes a working to keep it. But it's not by works or righteous works, deeds of the law, or by sight. It's by Grace alone through Faith alone.
Matthew 7:21-23) "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Nowhere do they say "have we not believed on thy name?". They were trusting in their works, righteous works, and law keeping. They were depending on religiosity and Christian behavior to earn their salvation like all the cults do.
Salvation is purely by grace through faith by belief alone - Eph 2:8-9 / Titus 3:5 / Gal 2:16 / Romans 10:9-10 / Acts 16:30-31 / Eph 1:7&13 / 1 John 5:13 / John 3:16 / John 3:3 / Mark 1:15
Furthermore, what is “the will of my Father”? As we see in John 6 -
John 6:28-29) "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
John 6:39-40) “And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Doing the will of the Father is not doing works, keeping commandments, or law keeping, but is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation.
We are not called to the will of works, but are called to believing faith. Now true believing faith will produce fruit of works but it’s not the works that inherit salvation. The reason that Christ says “I never knew you” is because the people were focusing on the religion and not the faith. They thought the religion was the faith, but true believing faith will produce “pure religion undefiled”.
Misconstruing religiosity with faith by grace leads to damnation, and this is the ultimate work of Satan to cause a misfocus within the Churches - preaching from the pulpit to create multitudes of religious damned who think themselves to be the very children of God.
Justification before God is by Faith in Christ and not by works
Isaiah 53:11) “He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”
Acts 15:9-11) “And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”
Romans 4:25) “Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.”
Galatians 3:10-13) “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
John 1:17) “For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
Romans 10:3-4) “For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
Romans 5:1-2) “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”
Titus 3:5-7) “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”
1Corinthians 1:29-31) “That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 6:11) “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
Rom 3:23-28) “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
Romans 8:30) “Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”
Philippians 3:9) “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”
Gal 2:16-21) “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”
Galatians 3:21-29) “Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Romans 11:29
Romans 11 is about the jews being cut off from salvation and salvation coming to the gentile.
Read the whole chapter. Context is your friend.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
You have failed to wrestle with Scripture. This subject is not easy and takes a lot of work to gain harmony with text that seem to go in different directions. This is the duty of all believers who take the Word of God seriously.
I used to be a Catholic.
Then I read the Bible. Now I'm an anti-theist.
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
I used to be a lemon now I'm a cantaloupe.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar. Its wings can become dirty but it is still a new creature.
only in the gospel of the circumcision do you have to endure!! not in the body of christ, the most Carnel believer who put his trust in the death burial and resurrection, who willfully sins until his death is just as righteous as the first day he believed why because its Christ righteousness we are given, imputed , counted to us , not our own , you cant be righteous enough to get to heaven with out the righteousness of Christ imputed you! and if your ability to be righteous is what your saying gets you in , then your denying the tru way in which is his blood his sacrifice his good works his righteousness credited our account imputed to us by faith!
Titus3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Philippians 3:9
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Romans1:17
For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “ The righteous will live by faith.”
Romans 4:5
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Romans 4:6
And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him…
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
Romans 8:39
nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John3:15-17
that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.…
John6:47
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
colossians1:20
and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.
psalm103:10
He has not dealt with us according to our sins or repaid us according to our iniquities.
psalm 103:12
As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
2 corrin 5:19
For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.
I dont think you understand the work of the Holy Spirit in the heart and life of the one who believes. You my friend should hear the Gospel and genuine faith that saves
I live with someone that claims she believes and is saved by the Holy Spirit because she was saved.
She also gets angry she can’t control her anger. She pretty much cursed her dad out.
But she is a big John MacArthur fan and thinks she is saved,
Luke tells us we can see it in them
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh, Luke 6:45.
Again maybe you are different by that saved by faith thing is the biggest lie Satan has ever given to anyone.
Why because it deceives people to truly believe that’s all you need.
No wonder the so called early colonial Americans befriended the Indians and gave them blankets with small pox. The manifest destiny since it was gods will for wealthy Americans to be even wealthier.
Are we saved by faith alone. Yes.
Notice the word saved. Is that indicate present and future tense.
If you were saved from getting bitten by a dog today does that mean from now on you will continue to be saved from all dogs. Nope!
Now the way you versed your comment I don’t doubt one bit you are truly with the Holy Spirit I know how it feels it’s amazing it over flows nothing and I mean nothing will make you sad, you put your trust in him.
At the same time it just makes people like. My friend believe even though their actions of using drugs and doing mean things completely contradict your philosophy
This man is allowing Satan ti use him in tormenting those who's faith is weak. To all those I say ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED because God is the one Who insures your salvation, not you. Stop seeing God as unable to hold on to you. There are many scriptures if you will search the Bible that show you this.
If satan through his free will turned his back on God then man can too.
@@JrVargas13 replying to your other thread replying to axxe
2 tim 2:12-13 is not talking about if predicated upon choice. If - εἰ - a conditional participle conjunction - a condition of circumstance. Of existence. “If you have a banana, it has potassium“
If in scripture from greek it’s not talking about freewheel choice. “If you are this you will do this.”
The same goes for John 4 - John 4:14
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
In the Greek it is “the one drinking” - not “whoever”
There is no free will in those dead and sin beyond the will to commit continual practice sin.
John 10:28 indicates zero ability that self can snatch one self out of the father‘s hand. In fact there’s not a single scripture that says self can exit the father‘s hands. This would imply human will is greater than the saving power of God.
Paul said -
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
“nor anything else in all creation” includes SELF.
John said - 1 John 3:9
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he is unable keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
And Jesus said - John 8:12
"I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
Again whoever here in the Greek is - ὁ ἀκολουθῶν - the one following - which is an active measure of existence not an either war of choice. Those bourne of God are in capable of practicing sin and walking in darkness.
Where you’re getting tripped up is the distinction of those who call themselves Christians and those who are truly redeemed.
Take John 15 as an example
Notice Jesus words of those cast out, cut off, burned up.
John 15:2 - Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away…
John 15:6
If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Both instances we see a one sided scenario with both producing nothing.
Now, Noticed the distinction between that reality versus those Jesus kept and the deciding factor between them.
John 15:4
Abide in me, and I in you….
2 factor difference now. Singular abiding does nothing, produces nothing.
15:4 - continued - …As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself,
“By itself”, notice that??? If we are in Christ alone but Christ is not in us we bear zero Fruit and are cast out. We are a branch claiming the vine without being in the vine.
This is a person who has tasted of the heavenly gifts and the spirit of God. This is a self-professed Christian without redemption. This is someone aware of the truth but without receiving grace through faith.
Cross ref- Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
This is someone aware of the truth but without receiving grace through faith. You could call this easy believe-ism or Eucharist only participators. It is someone who knows of God without regeneration. The heart has not changed.
15:4 - continued - As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
We must abide in Christ and Christ in us therefore the true regenerate changes one of the causality of God rather than self proclamation of self belief. True regenerate election is supernatural.
God spoke to the prophet Ezekiel of the coming salvation of the New Age.
Ezekiel 36:26-27 - God
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
It is God that gives, it is God that removes the old, it is God that places the spirit within and it is God that causes the redeemed to not walk in darkness but in the light.
Satan never had faith in Christ he wanted to be god
@aceswizzo8665 Faith or no faith, Satan had free will to choose or reject God right?
@@JrVargas13 faith is always key because if you have faith in Christ you wouldn't turn your back on him .. if the devil had faith in Christ he wouldn't done wat he did
@aceswizzo8665 I'll ask u again, did Satan have free will yes or no?
The election of the believer fixes this issue
Sorry but scripture just doesn’t back up what you’re saying on the topic of salvation.
I can literally list dozens of verses and I don’t have time to do that so I’ll just put the most irrefutable verse out there
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.”
- John. 10:27-29
No man, as in no person (men or women) are able to take away anyone’s salvation not even our own. Who am I? The Father is greater than all of us and His love will out grace our sins should we choose to accept the free gift of salivation that was promised by God who cannot lie (Romans 6:23, Titus 1:1-3)
Once saved always saved
"My sheep hear my voice and they FOLLOW ME" so sheep's of Jesus are followers so you not sheep of God if u don't abide in him and we abide in christ by the law. John 15 4 abide in me and I will abide in you"
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Romans 11:22 KJV. keyword "IF" so it says you will be cut off unless you continue in his goodness you will be cut off. So your grafted in the tree by grace through faith but if you don't abide in God you will be cut off
@@imjustheresoiwontgetfined3890 Jesus says no one will be able to snatch them (sheep) out of His Father’s hands, His father is stronger than us all. Are you suggesting that the sheep are stronger than the Father?
John 15:1-8 is talking about discipleship, NOT salvation.
Romans 11:22 is not talking about the Church of believers it’s talking about the Jews who rebelled against God and killed Jesus.
Clearly you and your Catholic friends along with your lordship salvation friends are desperate to pull out anything to discredit the real gospel.
@@notyouraveragecentrist4536 catholic? Lol I say what the scripture says now im a catholic? ok
Then Salvation is not eternal
@Jesus Christ Is My Lord And Savior I see you, brother. Keep up the good fight
Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 10:26 If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins.
@Jesus Christ Is My Lord And Savior Then do what he commands.
@Jesus Christ Is My Lord And SaviorDo not be deceived, unfortunately the bible very clearly teaches otherwise. Just like Adam and Eve, we have to be tested and proven worthy of the kingdom of God. In your understanding, we are all saved and thus we are all going to heaven even those who reject or have rejected the blood sacrifice of Christ for the remission of their sins. There is then no distinction between Christian habitual sinners and ungodly sinners. God would be unfair to pardon a habitual Christian sinner and yet condemn an ungodly sinner; God shows no favoritism. Don't forget that even the demons believe and tremble. Where do you think is Judas who betrayed Jesus? If by the grace of God you do not try to overcome sin unfortunately, sin and death will completely engulf you. Eternal security is a lie of the devil. In your eyes there is no judgment of the living and the dead since on your own authority you've already proclaimed yourself innocent and a saint and according to your logic we're all going to heaven anyway. God is not dumb!
Hebrews 6:4-6 - (After the "enlightened" [baptized] fall away, they cannot be enlightened again.)
Hebrews 10:26 - (No sacrifice for sins after deliberate sin after knowing the truth)
@Solomon Guyer Pish Posh
He’s talking to the Jews by the way… and how if they become saved and revert back to Leviticus practice that there’s “no sacrifice for sins” because they sacrafice animals
It sounds a lot like Judas who was a disciple of Jesus for three years but as scripture says he did not believe, and Jesus called him a devil. Jesus is God and we know God cannot lie Titus 1:2. If God who said in his word when he gives us eternal life, and they shall never perish, is he telling us the truth or not. The word never means 'at no time' shall they perish, the word eternal means forever, never ending, perpetual, the life of God that comes into the recreated man that God comes into his inner man to live forever. Hebrews 13:5 for he has said I will never, at no time, leave thee, nor forsake thee. 1 John 5:10-11 He that believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself: he that believes not God has made him a liar, because he believes not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son has not life. You either believe God or you don't Trent, you are calling God a liar.
the differences that trent talks about have no practical relevance neither to men nor to God. this question is irrelevant and not worth discussing apart from academic purposes.
TULIP.
Trent Horn forgot Philippians 1:6. He used a lot of strawman fallacies here. 😂
Then why would Paul make Phil 2:12 command? If God guarantees 1:6, there's no need for 2:12.
@@macbride33 Paul did NOT say work FOR your salvation but he said work out. There's salvation already. He just said it to pursue spiritual growth.
Personal Responsibility: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" suggests that believers should actively pursue their spiritual growth and moral conduct, taking their faith seriously and with reverence.
Divine Empowerment: "For it is God who works in you" highlights that while believers are responsible for their spiritual journey, it is God who gives them the desire and ability to live out their faith.
@@macbride33 you are using Eisegesis. Salvation is from the Lord not man. You are taking the verse out of context
@@samuelaguilar9668 you make 0 sense. If you are already saved, what in the world is there to work out on fear and trembling? Why? Is the question you need to answer.
@@samuelaguilar9668 You know what else he didn't say?He didn't say workout your own spiritual growth in fear and trembling.
That’s not true that’s probably what Catholics believe The Bible says we can’t take John 3:16 for example “For God so loved the world that he gave his only son so whoever believes in him SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE”
Salvation means to be in the presence of God here on the earth…not about going to a magical afterworld called “heaven”
Jesus said I know my sheep they know me I give them eternal life nothing can ever take them from my hands my father is greater and all has given them to me and nothing can snatch them for his hands I and the father are one which means once we are in Jesus nothing can take us away from him my friends
Protestants: I guess all you have to do is say a magic prayer and you go to heaven. Wow, you don’t even need to go to church anymore. Can break all 10 commandments and still go to heaven. Seems like the New Testament should only be one verse long since that’s all you need.
Nope.
The Bible is clear that salvation is permanent.
Faith alone = Once Saved Always Saved
Faith alone = believe on Christ and DONE
Works salvation = can be lost because man must keep the Law to earn salvation
Those who have received the Holy Ghost are guaranteed eternal life.
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory - Ephesians 1:13-14
Putting one's seal on something was a guaranty of the identity of who sent it, or to whom it belonged. A seal on a document testified that this person had written and signed it.
The seal of Baptism is that indelible mark or character which conforms the soul to God in the likeness of Christ by the power of the Spirit.
So being sealed with the Spirit just means we are permanently marked as belonging to God.
That doesn't mean that we can't turn away from God. The Jews in the Old Testament were marked as belonging to God, and they turned away time and again. How worse the fate of a person who is sealed with the Spirit and who turns away from God, than the fate of a person who was never given the Spirit. You’re just making up a new meaning of what being sealed means.
@@noahgaming8833 No Noah. is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory - Ephesians 1:13-14
No, Noah.
God's Holy Spirit is the guarantee until our redemption. Our glorified bodies - eternal life.
"guarantee until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"
@@noahgaming8833 Jesus loses none of those who the Father has given him.
"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them all up at the last day. - John 6:37
@@companyboss5447 In John 6:37a, Jesus states: “All that the Father gives me will come to me.”
Commentators note that the Greek phrase translated “all that” (pan ho) is neuter rather than the expected masculine.
They have thus seen the first statement as not simply speaking of individuals but of the whole people that God gives Jesus-i.e., a Church.
Jesus is thus affirming that the whole Church will come to Jesus.
But what about the individual? This is dealt with in the second half of John 6:37b: “and him who comes to me I will not cast out.”
Translated less elegantly, the statement would read “and the one coming to me I would certainly not cast out.”
Here “the one” (ton) is masculine, indicating the individual, and the present tense participle “coming” (erchomenon) indicates an ongoing action, not a one-time encounter. This is not controversial and is acknowledged by Calvinists.
The second part of the verse thus indicates Jesus will not cast out those who come and keep coming to him. But this does not establish eternal security.
Nobody would argue that Jesus would cast out those who, with repentance and faith, continue to follow him. But, by implication, if a person ceases to turn to Jesus in this way, he would cease to be part of the people that God gives to his Son, and he would be cast out.
The other comments aren’t refuting my first point.
The Bible is very clear on this.
“For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance” - Hebrews 6:4-6
There you have it, Paul, under inspiration, says plainly that those who have become partakers of holy spirit can and will fall away.
Jesus said what the Father give to Him, He lost none. How come some were lost? No
Christ be with you
That’s not what scripture says
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; 39 and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:38-40)
You are reading into the verses what you want to see.
Jesus came to do his part to see his Fathers will fulfilled but you are ignoring that we have a role to play in fulfilling his Will also.
“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matt 7:21)
Jesus tell us that the Father himself will be that one to take away those who do not keep his Will and abide in his Son by living in obedience to his teaching and commandments.
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
*Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away,* and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. (John 15:1-2)
I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6)
You are reading a verse of the Bible to make what you want, true, rather than seeking understanding in the rest of scripture.
God bless you
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi3880
Christ be with you
Why are you lying?
Come to Christ
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi3880
Christ be with you
Is the Truth that hard for you
Come to Christ
@Jesus Christ Is My Lord And Savior The parable of the sheep and the goats is blasphemy against the glorious doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved".
Matthew 10:22
and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 13:21
yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away.
Matthew 24:13
But anyone who endures to the end will be saved.
Mark 13:13
and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
@@jesuschristismylordandsavi3880
Peace Christ be with yo
Empty words
I showed you the scripture.
The Father will take away and burn those who do not abide in the Son. (John 15:1-6)
It is only those who do not defile there garments of righteousness cleansed by Christ that will not be blotted out of the book of life. (Rev 3:1-6)
Read the Bible
Come to Christ
CALVIN ❤❤❤ You sound like you want people to lose salvation. Work out YOUR salvation don"t judge orhers.
This is nonsense, marks on the soul? Where did you learn that? In a marvel comic book?
Of course you can lose your salvation; just read the Word! What's not empirically provable to someone is whether they've been "Saved" in the first place. Salvation is a gift from God so no man can boast (of his works or goodness). But there is a "turning" that must occur in a person, right? How do you know if you've "turned" properly and accepted God's gift? Doesn't one's continued salvation require faith in and continued obedience to God? Galatians, and other Biblical books, will tell you a person can fall from Grace by falling back on the Law. What? Is the Bible in error now? God forbid! So...have you really been saved? How deep is your love...your faith? We might do well to humble down and lose our presumptuous natures...self included!
Salvation is permanent. To prove this ill make a case for what belief and unbelief look like.
Salvation-
1. Made alive by God- born again from a broken and contrite heart.
2. Permanently forgiven
3. Unable to blaspheme the name of God, or the Holy Spirit. Unable to apostate.
4. Sealed by the spirit
5. spiritually discerning in scripture
6. Knows the mind of God
7. Recognizes Gods voice
8. Convicted and chastised by the spirit of sin.
9. In a constant state of behavioral modification through the spirit.
10. Displays natural fruit that does not require human will expectation.
11. Loves neighbor, loves God, loves without effort, and hungers for the word of God.
12. Unable to be possessed by a fallen angel/demon.
Lost-
1. Scripture and the word of God is foolishness.
2. Slaves to flesh
3. Slaves to the World
4. Unable to choose God
5. Hostile to God
6. Capable of apostasy
7. Dead in sin and trespasses
8. Does not accept anything of God, and is unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
9. LOVES sin.
10. Preferential rejection of God never researching the validity beyond self preference labeled absurdity.
When the regenerate sin they do not pass between these two categories interchangeably on a whim. The spirit indwelling would make no sense if one could lose the spirit so easily from a stray, sexual thought, falling into so-called mortal sin. God is not so weak that he can’t overlook your blunders to help you reach a finished point before death. Salvation is continuation is not dependent upon decisions of free will.
Christ never says that you should keep his commandments or that you have the option to keep his commandments. He says those born again WILL. if you are Born again you WILL.
John 14:15
"If you love me, you WILL keep my commandments.
Did he say you can keep? Is it optional? No, he said you WILL keep. Look further…
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he WILL keep my word, and my Father WILL love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Christ reconciles us to the Father for this benefit. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, he made us alive together with Christ-For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT YOUR own doing; it is the GIFT of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
What saves? Through what??? Are these related to you in any way??? Its a GIFT so that we cannot Boast. Meaning we cannot claim cooperative works as credit for salvation. Its ALL God through Faith alone and as demonstrates above, faith alone produces saving faith which produced compelled behavior. Works are a result, not “with”.
John 15:5 Greek
I am the vine; you are the branches. Those abiding in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Did it say whosoever?? The ESV and RSV wrongly translate here but the greek says “those abiding”. Its active. Without choice or blunder from Human effort.
There is ZERO human willed ability to lose this gift because the genuine nature of the regenerate is so bold and contrasted to the world. Being made alive is not a whimsical, flimsy transformation. Those truly born again of the spirit are radicals. They are personified radical changes. Sin can NEVER separate them from the Father.
Salvation validity can be measured. Unsaved live unrepentant sinful lives. The redeemed do not keep sinning. They live a spirit filled walk of compelled action of intentional holiness. When they sin they regret with great struggle. They don’t just feel bad. They cry on their knees for help. Even from struggled mortal sin like lustful thoughts.
The journey cannot be undone from the struggle. And the complacent who claim christ never had him. As one who struggled with Porn after salvation, am i to understand i lost my salvation 500 times a day until i Got a handle on my sin? NO. thats why the fruit of the regenerate is so vital. Its how we determine the sheep from the Goats. Its essential to remember the ungodly are justified by Faith for believing. The repentant still struggles because we must learn by the spirit to obey. And only those saved HAVE the spirit.
If you could lose salvation then you lose the spirit and Therefore the ABILITY to choose God again or even understand him. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If salvation were predicated upon holiness, then this would not be Grace, but basically what you can do for God to keep your salvation. Not even the historic ancient church fathers believe that.
Eternal security, once saved always saved, these were concepts, not pondered, or disputed in the early church, because you could know who was for and against Christ by their fruit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
If the old passing away is an action of the transformative nature of the spirit who is the power of God then Can the old that passed away be resurrected by the power of human will??? This would mean human will has “blocking interference power” of the spirit and power of God. This is why the idea of losing such a transformative nature is illogical.
A butterfly does not Dee evolve by choice back into a caterpillar.
ha ha...if we could lose our salvation...we ALL would...ha ha. No one would be in heaven😂
NO ONE knows if they are saved until they die !!!
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; *that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.* 1 JOHN 5:13
@William Burych
If no one knows if they are saved until they die? then why would Jesus say these words? and was Jesus lying?
John 3:15-16
15 That whosoever BELIEVETH in him should NOT PERISH, but HAVE ETERNAL LIFE
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH IN HIM should not perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE.
John 3:36
He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath EVERLASTING LIFE and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and BELIEVETH on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE; and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:40
40 And this is the WILL of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and BELIEVETH on HIM, may HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that BELIEVETH on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE.
John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and BELIEVETH in me shall NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?
John 10:28
And I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 17:3
And this is LIFE ETERNAL that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
@@williamburych2136 Speak for yourself!
His explenation is so sad. He believes in fake jesus, because he do not understand the true Jesus, the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives and the power of almighty God. No believer, in whom the Holy Ghost dwells even thinks of turning away from God.
The biggest problem with the can't lose salvation argument is it forces one to be in an eternal state when that can't happen until after death. While we're alive and still subject time and space we are free to make choices post baptism.
@@cyberfist6568 No. Saved people are new creation after they are saved. Now they are filled with the Holy Ghost that protects them. Sure. We will still sin, but we are no more condemned for eternal punishment. Jesus took that punishemnt upon himself. Are you sure ypu properly understand what Christianity is really about, because you sound like you don't. Saved people can't chase away the Holy Spirit from within themselves because they don't even have such ideas. What kind of God do you belive in that would let His children lost its way?
@@cyberfist6568 Are you sure you know what Christianity is really about and what Jesus did on the cross? Sounds like you believe in a false god that would let His children to perish. Saved people are new creation. The old is gone. They are now filled with the Holy Spirit that protects them. Sure. They will still sin, but they will not face the enternal punishment for it. Jesus took that punishment upon himself. Saved people can't rid off the Holy spirit, because they don't even have such ideas. You should really think about what kind of god do you believe in.
@@cyberfist6568 Are you sure you know what Christianity is really about and what Jesus did on the cross? Sounds like you believe in a false god that would let His children to perish. Saved people are new creation. The old is gone. They are now filled with the Holy Spirit that protects them. Sure. They will still sin, but they will not face the enternal punishment for it. Jesus took that punishment upon himself. Saved people can't rid off the Holy spirit, because they don't even have such ideas. You should really think about what kind of god do you believe in.
@@cyberfist6568 Are you sure you know what Christianity is really about and what Jesus did on the cross? Sounds like you believe in a false god that would let His children to perish. Saved people are new creation. The old is gone. They are now filled with the Holy Spirit that protects them. Sure. They will still sin, but they will not face the enternal punishment for it. Jesus took that punishment upon himself. Saved people can't rid off the Holy spirit, because they don't even have such ideas. You should really think about what kind of god do you believe in.
You can not lose your salvation it says it right in the Bible. Plus Jesus wants everyone to be Protestant. I forget what verse that is, but you can look it up. I'm only telling you because I love you all with all my heart and I don't want to see you go to hell! My Uncle Bert converted to Romanism on his death bed, and so we lost him to Satan just at the last minute, when he should have been going to heaven. It hurt his wife so bad she had to be under house observation for a month. Don't let that happen to you all. Convert while there's still time! Jesus loves you.
We need verses here not your thoughts,tell me where in the bible says a salvation can not be lost
@@tasfinye1850 lol he's joking! This is just satire.
@@tasfinye1850
Rev 3:5 (( I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, )). great promise. this is a promise to all that believe in Christ, ALL. want scripture 1John 5:5
Just another dime a dozen false teacher teaching blasphemy and doctrines of devils.
this is a super bad teaching. Once saved always saved is true and real. If you dont understand this, then you are saying to GOD, that your salvation is about YOU...nothing Jesus did on the cross is suffient, as if the cross was just a marker point for us, and we do the rest. This idea that Salvation is really up to ME, I chose GOD, I will keep salvation, and my salvation is about what I did for GOD....is blashphemy. Man, I learned a long time ago thats an evil doctrine, GOD humbled me. You cant be perfect, you will never be perfect. If you are saved by the blood of Jesus of Christ, born again, and a new creation....you will never never go back. GOD will give you the strength knowledge and prudence to the end. You will fall and stumble but you are sealed. And yes dont test GOD or mock him, bc he will humble you, even if you are saved, you risk his wrath. But your salvation is a promise. Dont let these buffonish so called bible experts tell you other wise.
No.
I used to be a Catholic.
Then I read the Bible. Now I'm an anti-theist.
I left your cult.
Your god isn't real.
Trent needs to understand how his slavish devotion to Republican politics, particularly in questions of Life, is hardly Christian, let alone Catholic.
LOL. shipwreck is losing salvation, amazing how you guys twist the word of God to your own destruction!
@Robert
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
@Robert
I just quoted Jesus' words
@Robert
You obviously believe in another god friend!
Not the God of the bible.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
@Robert "Take heed that no man deceive you, for many will come in My Name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many."
@Robert I've never met him, but I have heard Louis Farrakhan claim to be the Messiah.
A true Christian cannot lose their salvation. Trent is way off as usual.
Where does the Bible say that a true Christian cannot lose their salvation?
@@thegoatofyoutube1787 There are many verses and passages that show a true believer cannot lose their salvation. One of the most clear is found in 1 John 2: 19. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us..". John shows us here that the reason one becomes apostate is because they were never true believers in the first place. And on the contrary, if they were true believers, they would not apostate. This clearly shows that true believers persevere whereas false brethren will eventually fall away. I can show more if you would like.
@@dannymcmullan9375 John is talking about antichrists pretending to be something they are not
; he is not addressing the question of wether a believer can fall away. There are many verses that demonstrate that this is possible, Paul talks about those who have made “shipwrecks of their faith” , Peter talks about how those who have tasted the truth and returned to their old ways are in a “worse condition then the first”, Hebrews explores how the Israelites serve as a warning to us, the list does on and on. This is why no Christians claimed a believer could never lose their salvation until John Calvin 1500 yrs after Christ. Even Paul warned against presumption saying he endures for fear that “having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.” That’s not how a man who believes in eternal security talks.
@@thegoatofyoutube1787 No he is talking about unbelievers. He uses the term antichrist to identify the spirit they are of. How do we know they are unbelievers? Because he explains what he means by antichrist in verse 22. There are a few verses that people try to use to say we can lose our salvation but they are always used out of context or they are just completely misinterpreted. Also, I could care less what Christians believed in the past. Totally irrelevant. It only matters what the word of God says and He is quite clear on this matter. I had a feeling you weren't actually asking a question to learn. You just wanted to fight. I'm not interested in fighting. Go find someone else for that. Bye
@@dannymcmullan9375 I don’t want to fight, sir, I’m replying to your public challenge to a teaching. I’d ask you to reflect on why you are guided by the Holy Spirit in your interpretation and those that disagree with you are not. There are just as many Protestant/Evangelical Christians that believe the Bible teaches you can lose your salvation as there are those that agree with you. They all have their favorite verses just like you do and if challenged they will say you are taking scriptures out of context. Maybe ignoring history and leaning on personal understanding is not a great method to discover truth.
Trent Horn is not a Catholic neither is Jimmy Akin, Michael Lofton, Cameron Bertuzzi, Matt Fradd...they know NOT the first thing about Catholicism!