NASCAR and the Dam of Legitimacy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ธ.ค. 2023
- NASCAR's biggest problem right now is a lack of apparent legitimacy. Ask any oldhead why they don't watch anymore and more often than not, it's the meddling by the sanctioning body that drove them away. It wasn't any one thing but a mountain of bad calls that stretched out for nearly two decades. Let's take a look at how the dam burst wide open
#NASCAR
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The scene at 10:40 with an armed Bill France, was edited by Biodegradable for my Curtis Turner video. He does some great work, so check him out over on Twitter: twitter.com/BiodeEditable
if you were not there i would not even think of nascar .. they made v8 going at 200 mph boring it is kinda sad ... now they can use their free time as bud light maketing manager ...
you forgot to mention the 1992 nascar championship and the 1979 and 1980 and 1983
You gotta see the lucas oil late model guys at cherokee man
Oh hey, that's me! ;^P
The tuck rule was changed almost 10 years after the "original" Brady/Woodson play in 2002. It's a common misconception that: 1. It was an incorrect call 2. It had never happened before or again 3. It was a bad rule. Before instant replay/slow motion/camera angles got to where they are today, it would be remarkably hard for an official to make a call on when a QB decided to tuck, and not throw the ball. One more thing most people don't know...the 2 players were once teammates at Michigan. Go Blue!! Go Pats!!
Breaking news: Slap has been fined by NASCAR for "actions detrimental to stock car racing".
If he ends up fined by that and S1ap opens a crowdfund to pay the fine, i will put my money.
This is cool comment
Nascar will ban journalists from the garage for not praising them.
@@HirokaAkitathere’s no feasible way that would ever be held to legitimacy in a court of law, for the drivers they have to pay to continue racing, slap doesn’t have any skin in the game, he’s a big time viewer year but the hell is nascar gonna do? Take him to court? That won’t work well
@@bajasummit6209Brian took DBF to court, and that worked pretty fucking well for him.
S1ap is gonna get hit with his own suit.
Here’s the worst part;
There is a possibility that a driver could win every single race and lead every single lap prior to the final race.
And if that driver say cuts a tire in the final race and his car is knocked out of the event, he loses the championship, straight up.
I know it’s a what if, but the system is so goddamn broken.
Nah, it’s worse than that. The driver that won the first 35 races can theoretically finish 2nd in the final race and lose the title. Don’t even have to be knocked out of the race, just finish 2nd and that’s it. 35 consecutive wins for nothing.
@@FormerlyYBMT indeed. and then people will tell you that the playoffs reward wins above all else with a straight face.
@@-ragingpotato-937 Exactly. I know it’s CTS, but tell Matt Crafton that wins are the most important part. In Cup, tell Harvick, or Truex, or Byron that wins are the most important part.
Then the playoff fans come back at you with, "Well, under the old system, you could finish 7th every race and win the championship."
As if that's somehow a bad thing.
Or another could have last-place DNF's for a majority of the season, just get a handful of wins through the playoffs but all other events end at the bottom of the scoring pylon, dragged to the garage on the hook... And still steal the trophy.
That's what I don't like
The debris caution to stage break graph is pretty damning. Once the stages became a thing, debris cautions basically went away… which brings the legitimacy of the entire 2010’s into serious doubt.
It sometimes felt like he was trying to hand JJ the alltime lead for titles but still couldnt get ahead of Dale and the King. I watched Nascar from my first memories in 1987-88 til about 5 years ago and its not even close to the same. I fell in love with the gritty racing and Dale Sr. and none of that exists to any extent anymore. Also Bob Jenkins and Benny as announcers were just as legendary as Madden and Summerall
@@MrGoombasticveryFantasticI frequently go back and watch the races from the 80's. NASCAR is a completely different thing now. Everything is so contrived now, it's impossible for me to take it seriously.
I was as big of a fan of Winston Cup as anybody when that was around. I event watched a ton of Busch Grand National races. That era ended at the end of 2003 and I have not been interested in NASCAR on a regular basis since.
You know what was crazy back in the 80s and before, I'd say even the 90s, debris was on the track, apron even and unless it was in the racing groove, they kept on racing. A harmless spin in the back of the field? Kept on racing.
I know things change, but I wish we'd let nature take its course on some of these things nowadays.
I don't mind the new but it doesn't feel complete.
So one would wonder how NASCAR would explain that? Someone should ask "Is there less debris on the track today than before? Are you no longer calling cautions for debris on the track? Why didn't you call cautions for debris on the track in years prior?"
I'm sure NASCAR would come up with some lie like "Since 2017 we've tested and determined that most debris is harmless so no reason to throw cautions anymore"
I really like the Dam of Legitimacy idea, and would argue that with the widescale introduction of gambling into the American sports scene, the dam has burst for all sports.
Every time I watch an event with people, at least twice the idea that it's fixed for gambling comes up, and it's really hard to refute anymore.
I mean. For shit like that you can go back like 120 years to things the Backsox scandal.
Any time gambling enters the picture, fixing is soon to follow. League of Legends had a veritable organized crime problem with bookies threatening players to throw games in a chinese academy league
Gambling on sports has always been a huge part of the appeal. Since the very beginning.
That was going on way before sports betting was legalized. There's an author Brian Tuohy who's written multiple books about how rigged sports are, going almost back to WWII. A year or two ago there was also, I think a former Steelers player, who heavily hinted on a radio show that the super bowl is rigged.
@@HexadeciThere's a difference between "people like gambling on sports" and "Mafia-like organizations have a large controlling stake in elite sports through gambling businesses that are designed to turn people into addicts".
I personally get annoyed when people try and use stick and ball sports as an excuse to try and defend how NASCAR crowns it's Champions. It's Motorsports, not Football. If you don't like a Full Season Format where a driver gets crowned a race or two earily, then don't watch. Simple.
100%
Thanks for the heads up so I don't have to waste time listening to yet another stick n baller act like they are a concerned Nascar fan.
Exactly! Been saying that for years. One size does not fit all
This right here!
Funnily Enough F1 has had both results in the last three seasons. 2021 a final race to decide it all. 2023 Max wins with like 8 races left
as we all know, nascar’s sanctioning body’s only legitimacy is being consistently inconsistent…
this video is basically why I quit watching NASCAR around 2010s-2014. Been a fan since a kid in the 80s. I DISPISE NASCAR now. I've switched strictly to dirt track racing & Flo Racing with sprint cars / late models. Sprint Car racing is so damn good these days that it totally replaced what nascar used to fill. NASCAR got too big for its' britches.
Nascar Sanctioning body is the United States what CBA and CBF is to Brazil when it comes to Football and Motorsports.
A SHEITSHOW corrupt beyond any measures
They all think "precedent" is the person who lives and works in the White House.
This meme/joke extends back over 20 years ago lol. Back in the days where they would sometimes throw a red flag to get their “green white checker” at the end of a race. We’re talking around 2002.
Sounds kind of similar to the FIA these days.
You said it near the end, and it's a problem for almost every sport, especially motorsports. Leagues do not trust their product. Whether it's the NBA in-season tournament, Formula 1 hosting "event races" in the US, or NASCAR continually getting in the way of racing, sports are run by people who don't trust their product. People watch NASCAR because they like racing. People watch the NBA because they like basketball. People watch sports because they like them, not because Pitbull is doing a concert at halftime.
And you don't want the people that are only there for Pitbull at halftime. That's the most fickle crowd out there.
What’s wrong with the midseason tournament? That’s a basketball thing worldwide
In season tournament was cool
Because the in season tournament is a gimmick.
Only two sports I've followed my whole life (54). Baseball and NASCAR. I stopped watching NASCAR in the late 2000's. All my favorite drivers were gone The cars were generic and boring as were the newest generation of drivers. And I never could fully wrap my head around the playoff system. But now we're going through the same thing with baseball. After 100 years of almost no changes, they're changing all kinds of stuff. And the fans aren't happy.
Imagine winning YOUR FIRST NASCAR race & the TV guy wipes your nose with his bare hands 18:31
WTF how weird is that
Nice catch. I kind of grazed past that. 😂😂🤮
That was some gay Sh##
@liliango52 All the gay men I know have more dignity than that.
Nah gay people think that's weird as fuck too
Carl's retirement was loud. It was when I really realized (a teenager at the time) the NASCAR was more show than sport.
The Kyle Bush broken leg season is what did it for me. You miss half the season, and then NASCAR writes a new rule that says you can miss (Kyle's missing races)+1 races per season. How transparent can you get?
I'm getting back into it slowly, but it's hard when you see races where they don't give the teams enough tires. It's hard when they say "the best car and the best strategy and the best driver on Sunday will win", and then the race is decided by whether a random caution comes out 1% sooner or later. That isn't strategy, that's a coin flip.
I want to see skill, where the crew chief makes a genuinely brilliant decision on pit strategy to win the race, not where a coin flip determines if you finish first or twentieth. NASCAR seems to be optimizing for the latter.
Poor Carl…I have to applaud him for being civil with Joey’s pit crew despite all that BS, but goddamnit, that was such a disgrace.
I've always like Carl's positive attitude always up beat, he has a lot of character. I'd go as far as calling Carl an honorable man.
@@Chestickles Carl did the same thing to Keselowski after the Talladega crash, and then proceeded to bully him for the next two years.
@@Chestickles Carl can rot in hell for all eternity for all I care. He's about as honorable as the France family, iow a 2 faced lying sack of excrement.
Carl turned himself across the nose of a car that was already under him.
@@claysauertieg4792Carl was fully aware that he had to block logano there if he wanted to be champion. He knew what was at stake. Would you rather go down swinging or without a fight?
At this point, a total collapse of the series would actually be beneficial. Nascar needs new management and I fear that will only happen when the France family decides to sell the whole thing. But I'm not delusional enough to even consider that as a possibility. It won't happen, ever.
Back in the late 90's there was talk that Bruton Smith would take all his tracks and create a breakaway league similar to CART/IRL in the mid 90's. NASCAR will never change, but I think there could be room for competition to end the monopoly.
The management now is not the France family, but they're still doing the same things that Brian did. Jim France is very hands off and it's Phelps and Kennedy running the show. Hasn't changed much.
I think seeing how big AEW has grown outside of the shadow of past WWE/McMahon shenanigans, NASCAR (or whatever their competitor/replacement is called) could definitely do with a reinvention.
It's actually entirely possible if the downward trend of ratings continues on the same course and the same shills continue to tell us to get over it. If people aren't watching in any capacity, they won't be able to keep the lights on or the TV networks happy. I went to an Xfinity race last year and despite being the best racing in the series, it was dire. Tons of empty seats.
If that keeps going, you might get your collapse after all.
It may go bust within the decade, Xfinity is going to be on the CW only and the TV license for standard races are in limbo for the next season.
The reason the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL don't have legitimacy problems to this degree is because the person in charge (the commissioner) is an employee of the team owners - if they are doing a bad job, then that job goes to somebody else. And because of this structure, any change to the rules of the sport is subject to a vote among those who have the most stake in their respective team's success (at least financially). The situation NASCAR has is like if all 32 NFL teams were owned by a guy who grew up in Rochester: suddenly the Buffalo Bills would be the benefactors of some very suspect calls and arbitrary playoff structures that would magically get them into the Super Bowl (which as a Bills fan doesn't sound so bad right now). It will never happen, but the solution would be if the France clan were employees of the owners. Great video as always!
ROCHESTER CORRUPTION SHOUTOUT 🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣
Except that has never happened in football or basketball.
You are delusional if you think the NFL, NHL and NBA don't have legitimacy problems.
They should be employees of every worker in Nascar. Or, employees of the drivers only.
There's also a player's union/association that allows the players to directly communicate their needs and wants to the league itself.
My husband has been racing oval track since he was an actual child. He still races super late models and occasionally gets one of his legends cars out too. He spent all of his free time becoming a dominant driver who can unload at any track and all but guarantee a top 5 finish at worst. He broke down on me a while back saying “I think I’ve wasted my life chasing a dream that doesn’t exist” that’s a big deal coming from a man who is a lot of this to a lot of people but if you ask him what he is he always says “I’m a race car driver!” It has broken my heart to see him realize that the cup series is nothing but professional wrestling with cars. He knows now that there is no earning his way there and that makes me so mad. He didn’t even run the last few races of his season this year because of it. I don’t know what else to say other than NASCAR needs to either show the fans and people who work in the sport EVERYTHING or they need to admit it’s just a soap opera now.
This is grim.
That’s very sad. All the big drivers from cup eventually retire and go back racing local spots all over the nation just like your husband, if u ask them they would say he’s living the dream. Just with a little less money
Not sure if you mean dirt or pavement super late models but there's opportunity in dirt racing now a days, although the rich kid element is growing there too.
Unfortunately, I can relate to that. And unfortunately, it’s not only a NASCAR problem. I’ve been racing go-karts for years since I was a child in my country, and we also have all sorts of legitimacy problems with our sanctioning bodies - unfair tech inspections, officials ignoring dangerous behaviour on track, or penalties straight out of nowhere. When people ask, who I am, I always say that i’m a racer, but sometimes I think, that I can’t deal with all of the BS anymore and think of retiring from the sport. I wish you and your husband best of luck, I hope someday all racers from around the world can finally do actual racing without worrying about strange officiating calls.
We can all feel down in the dumps for realizing a dream of going pro is not there anymore (including me after I graduated high school when I knew my chances were gone to go pro but I'm glad I didn't invest anymore time and effort to go to nascar)...but one thing I could say is your husband is one of the "best" because he's like every other local short track driver including myself...We've gone to the track and have won/loss many races overtime...At the end of the day, this is what makes legends, you don't have to go pro to be the "best."
Don't put a question mark in place of a period...
A floracing subscription will get you world class dirt late model and sprint car racing as well alot of the nascar sanctioned paved short track stuff. Take the plunge slap.
40 year Indycar fan here. We went through long, dark times when being a fan was just embarrassing. It will get better, don't lose hope. 😊
Just need Penske to buy the series.
What’s worse is it’s spreading. The Lucas oil late model dirt series now has a playoff and majority of the the fans were pissed. RTJ just had a year for the record books but has nothing to show for it
Thanks for addressing this, S1ap. It's truly heartbreaking and cannot be overstated enough how much Brian France tore this sport apart piece by piece. The COT, the playoffs, the inconsistent judgement calls. A beautiful product that was near rivaling the NFL is a shell of itself because suit and tie businessmen took over that have no idea how racing works. I fell out of love with it.
Honestly the only one thing there that was actually good was the COT.
It was a brilliant idea, it only happened that it was way too wrongly implemented.
NASCAR is what got me into sanctioned motorsports. It is so incredibly sad to see what it is now.
yea i checked out around 07/08
I didn’t have a problem with the COT, apart from the lack of manufacturer identity. It was rough to start with, but it got better as time went on. I hated the wing, but strangely enough, I actually liked the exposed splitter. I’m sure I’m about the only person that liked that part of it. But the best part of it was that the car was safe. I don’t remember any serious injuries once that car was implemented. Not to drivers, anyway.
Gen 4 and the CoT are 2 of the most visually defining vehicles used in NASCARS history
If you put an indycar and a formula one car next to each other when I was 10 I couldn't tell them apart, but I knew a NASCAR when I saw one so...good marketing
I'd recommend getting a dirtvision subscription during the june-july part of the season when the big money races are
That's what I do June July sometimes August for dirtvision and i get the yearly flo subscription.
2023 was the first year I didn’t watch a single race since I became a fan in the mid 2000’s. Every year it seems like NASCAR would come out with some new gimmicky rule that would make the experience even worse than before. I’ve had enough as a fan and just check to see who won/where my driver finished. If this sport doesn’t make a U-turn in leadership fast, I foresee NASCAR going completely bankrupt. Excellent video sir!!
I barely even listen to the races anymore, unless it's to fall to sleep to.
This was completely spot on. Kenseth was given a 2 race suspension because it was later revealed that one of the high ups in NASCAR's son was a huge Logano fan. Hence the big hit. I would expand on the Brian France situation but I'll keep out of that one.
Thank god someone finally said it. Its not even painful to say because its right. The sport is a joke. There is a reason why we need more fan start to follow Late Model and Sprint Car series, because its the best vs the best, no gimmicks.
No one gives a crap about that backyard Hee-Haw shit
@@OccasionalNASCARRacesstay triggered little soy boy 😂
It's cool seeing the increased hype around short track crown jewels, I went to Eldora's Kings Royal race the past 2 years, puts nascar short track racing to shame
The super late models definitely put on more competitive show on average but there's nothing like a great sprint car race in motorsports IMHO
And they don't ban you from wearing certain flags that symbolized the region that the main fan base derives from, I was done then.
Take the dirt pill and you'll never go back to nascar
Call me crazy but I still prefer the asphalt sort over dirt track racing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Damn straight
Would love to see you do a longer video exploring the world of outlaws vs high limit situation. Interesting channel would love to see more dirt track stuff.
Agree!
All my frustrations over the years compiled into one damning video. Thank you, S1ap.
American short track racing is more competitive than nascar and more exciting to watch
I find it heartbreaking, I am from England and I grew up on NASCAR, my family would fly to America to go to NASCAR races, my brother and I raced karts with only NASCAR in mind.... I wish they would stop bleeding so much, it hurts to watch a race now.
Being a Yank F1 fan since I was a kid in the early '90s, I must admit that I have never seen a Brit utter such words.😅
Same here, grew up watching. But the downward spiral starting with the chase format has absolutely ruined it's legitimacy and without that it's barely sport anymore, why watch?
The sad part is, when Brain France was on the Dale Jr Download (I have no clue how I got through that episode listening to that buffoon), he was in complete denial that he did anything wrong.
He said the Car Of Tomorrow was a mistake.
he about shit himself when Mayfield was brought up
I remember watching a clip of Jrs podcast when Jr asked Brain a question about the COT he immediately smiled like a clown and I was like "oh sh*t! What does that face mean?!"
I was thinking about Phantom cautions when I was at Martinsville. There was a plastic water bottle that had fell out of Blaney’s pits around stage 2 and worked it’s way into turn 3. And I kept waiting for the caution. They never did a thing and it stayed there for most of the race.
NASCAR has felt like the WWE of motorsports for years.
Yes and that’s what they don’t get. NASCAR is WWE with cars.
Except people actually watch WWE
That's an insult to WWE.
WWE is supposed to be more like theatre. The fans understand that and want the story to be embellished or fictional. It works there. It doesn't work here, and nobody wants it.
YES then they WOKE the hell out of it and it was too much for me, done with it, could care less if it exists anymore and I never missed a race... NOW I will leave an area where a race is on be it a res truant or a relatives house..
If we had the Playoff format during the Winston cup era:
-Jeff Gordon would’ve lost the championship in 1995, 1997, and 2001 simply because he did not have the best result in the last race of the season, making his entire consistent seasons insignificant
-Dale Earnhardt would have lost the championship in 1993 and 1994 because despite his great seasons, his result in the season finale would not be enough to clinch the title
This is an issue that has been repeating itself for years. As a life-long NASCAR fan, it has torn me to see this happening over and over again and I hope that changes can be made to repair their dam of legitimacy.
And if we'd stayed with the old system, Jeff Gordon would be a seven-time champion, and he would fit as such a lot better than his teammate.
i disagree with this simply because hendrick would have developed the car differently, they would have actually tried at the end. which is how knaus treated jimmie when the chase was introduced. gordon was outperformed by jimmie in equal equipment, proving he really didnt deserve much more than 4 championships, and jimmie deserved his 7
@@LordBurger as a reminder, Cheat Knaus cheated up a lot of his cars, and was caught on the in car telling Jimmie to crack the back of the car if they won. And of course, Brainless France looked the other way on a lot of stuff.
And how do you felt when the old tur* removed pilot at gun point because they wish to live? I can't understand how someone could love something as evil as Nazicar
I hope someone from NASCAR sees this, unfortunately as you say, they'd just double down and make things worse. I was a diehard NASCAR fan growing up watching with my dad. From 2004, my interest slowly waned until I completely gave it up when they introduced stage racing. That was the last straw and just confirmed everything we already knew, that NASCAR was manipulating races. Now, the only races I make time for are the Daytona 500 and the Coca-Cola 600, purely out of respect for the traditions associated with them.
BTW, I grew up about a mile away from Greenville-Pickens and even got to meet Dale Earnhardt there just a few months before he died. Pretty neat to hear you mention it.
They all watch these types of videos. They don’t care.
For some ungodly reason, the Lucas Late Model Dirt Series looked at Nascar's Playoff format and thought it was a great idea to implement a similar system for their 2023 series championship. Ricky Thornton Jr had one of the more dominant seasons in late model racing, leading most statistical categories. He had 23 feature wins on the season, while nobody else on the tour had more than 7, and also led the series in top 5s by a country mile. Out of 52 feature starts, 41 of those were top 5 finishes, while nobody else in the field had more than 32. Thornton effectively had 28 percent more top 5s than anyone else in the field this season, so much so that all but one of his top 10s this year were top 5s. He led the points practically uncontested all year, until the final race of the season at Eldora, where the points were reset to a one race championship-decider between the top 4 in points, much like Nascar. He end up with suspension damage from an incident on lap 9 which takes him out of contention, and Thornton ultimately finished third in the final points championship as a result.
That championship-deciding race was so egregious that they completely overhauled the format for 2024, with a 7-race stretch to determine the champion instead of just one race.
I'm good with a seven race stretch. You don't want someone to have clinched the championship half way through the season.
NASCAR takes it a step too far.
Someone make S1ap the CEO of NASCAR
He speaks the truth every time
He'd have my vote for sure without a doubt!
No. Good Lord no.
I look at the current championship the way Syndrome looks at super heroes in the Incredibles:
“If everyone’s super, no one is”
If every years championship is special, then none of them are.
There’s a reason why I still remember nearly everything about the 2021 F1 championship. No matter how controversial the ending was, that season was something that we may never see again. THAT is special.
It’s why the 1992 championship race at Atlanta is considered one of the greatest races in Nascar history. No one was sure if they’d ever see something like that again!
1992 was a great year all around. Just watched The Winston race again a few weeks ago.
Atlanta had lots going on.. Bill won the race but lost the championship. Petty's last race and Gordon's first. Last owner/driver to win the championship. Remember watching that race live.
Agreed. People look at F1 seasons like 2008, 2012, and 2021 fondly. Sometimes a boring season like 2023 happens. We will look back on it the same way we regarded Schumacher at his peak: an Amazing driver matched with an amazing car.
@@hornetguy9063The 2023 season is memorable in it's own right. 19 race wins and clinching the constructor's title single handedly is an accomplishment on its own. Sure, you'd like a closer field, but there's no doubt about the fact that Max did everything he was supposed to do and then some.
Part of why I think NASCAR's game 7 moment philosophy is stupid. Because even in the stick and ball sports that use the best of 7 format such "game 7 moments" don't happen all that often because often times game 7 dos not happen and the series ends with a 4 - 0 blowout or in 5 or 6 games play.
The 1992 Hooters 500 WAS the LAST real NASCAR race it's all been downhill since then.
Jayski used to have the cup standings and a “traditional” cup standings with the old points. They got rid of it when ESPN bought the site.
Excellent video.
Nascar's obsession with manufacturing "game 7" moments is the main catalyst for all of their decisions that have led to everyone questioning the legitimacy of Nascar as a sport. unfortunately, the decline in ratings through the years hasn't deterred them from continuing to put their thumb on the scale.
Not to mention the final race is almost always won by one of the final 4 drivers. It's obviously contrived.
According to Hamlin, in the Gen 6 era NASCAR did the pre-race inspection for the final four a full week before the race and then gave the cars back to the teams with no further inspections. Basically the championship comes down to who cheated best.
Except this year when Chastain won it. But Blaney pretty much backed off and let him get the win since he was already far enough ahead to take the title.
@@evanwilliams6406seems like a fake storyline to build hype for next year over "wild man ross"
Yeah after a few years of that even I caught on to the act
I was raised Sunday afternoons by Bob, Benny, and Ned so obviously you are 100% correct. On the positive side to all this is I signed up for and now watch Floracing. On a typical summer evening I can watch super modifieds, late models, dirt modifieds, sprint cars, or a number of random short tracks throughout the country. Peak summer there’s literally a race every evening. I honestly don’t miss watching napcar anymore, I just catch highlight clips online.
Flo is incredible, it is expensive but the value you get for it is insane.
Well enjoy the charter system in Sprint Cars now. Oh you won't complain becuase Larson put it in place, lol
@@OccasionalNASCARRacesthere's no guaranteed starting spot with the high limit charters they're about attempting all the races and getting streaming revenue sharing. Apples and oranges
@@OccasionalNASCARRaceswow all over this page you are striking out, you don't even know what charter means in the context of this series
If it wasn't for a combination of waning love for NASCAR and Covid I would've likely never found all the great dirt tracks in Pennsylvania. It may not scratch the same itch as NASCAR once did, but it's a lovely alternative
I stopped watching in like 2010. Why do playoffs exist? You race against all your competitors every week. Every week is a playoff game.
Nascar has become the WWE of the racing world.
It’s going to die the same way too, horrible mismanagement and bruising egos.
@@maxwellhesher1790 Probably a rapist at the helm too.
4:25 The France Family and NASCAR are a prime example of the 3 generations of a rich family analogy.
The first generation makes the money and builds the wealth.
The second generation has no vision, does nothing with the fortune, and the wealth stagnates.
The third generation squanders it.
Saying Bill France Jr had no vision is an absolute insult
@@oliveiradmdiogoAgree. Under Bill Jr is when we got things like flag to flag national coverage, a consistent points system and a steady pattern of realistic growth. Bill Jr may not have been a visionary, but he kept the train moving on an upward trajectory. He had his finger on the pulse of the fans as well as the drivers and kept things pretty well balanced.
A snobbish, insufferable rich family at that
@@zlinedavid agree. The way Nascar was valued is proof of a good vision.
The way Slap uses the english language to describe sports is like an all you can eat buffet of goodness.
Wow, I've been trying to say what you said in this video for years but couldn't put it into words. You nailed it. It's unfortunate that the second most popular sport in America has come to this. Unfortunately, I don't see a rebound happening. As you pointed out we are now watching the richest drivers, not the best. In my opinion NASCAR got so popular because of the personalities and relatability. A high school dropout is considered one of the best of all time. He got there on hard work, determination and talent, not because of daddy's checkbook. And the drivers of today have the personality of a wet towel.
That’s kind of an insult to wet towels. At least they start to grow mold and fungus eventually.
I will defend the money system. It happens in every sport. You have to be good, athletic, smart, sure, but you also have to be able to afford the summer training camps in middle and high school, you have to play on club teams, move to a city with the good teams so you get good coaching, you have to be able to afford to do a hobby instead of getting a job in high school.
To be the best of the best, you've always needed money. And when the sport requires a million dollar car and a billion dollar racetrack, that money pot required to get really good is going to be a lot larger than for a sport where you can get started with a few sticks, a dirt field, and a 10 dollar ball.
Kyle Bush said this sentiment in an interview when asked about a (specific) driver's talent. I forget if whom he was speaking, but "If he's got $6 mil, he's driving".
@phillyphakename1255 lots of poor kids still make it in the nfl, no clue what you are talking about. And you didn't defend anything you just said "it is what it is"
Wasn't really sure what the video was going to be about at first, but I think you did an excellent job here, props.
I grew up a big Edwards fan, and his retirement coincidentally occurring mere weeks before the reveal of stage racing really made me stop and think about what was happening to the sport I love.
"These championships aren't like Petty and Earnhardt used to win them." - Kevin Harvick
Yet strangely Harvick didn’t say that or complained otherwise when he won the Cup in 2014.
Fix the GD point system
So 1st should be 50 points
2nd 25 points
3rd 15 points
4th 10 points
5th 9 points
6th 7 points
7th 6 points
8th 5 points
9th 4 points
10th 3 points
Then 11th 2 points
Then 12th on back is 1 point for finishing
DNF’s no points
Most laps led is 11 Bonus points
2nd most 7 Bonus points
Leading a lap is 5 Bonus points
That way You can go all out for Wins
and if you’re Winning then you can blow a couple engines & a couple wrecks and still be in the Top few spots
It will make it so that Winning is worth going all out
But 2nd is still worth enough more than the rest not to wreck
Yourself going for a W
That’s how it needs to be done
Telling You
The Top Winners
and The Best avg finishers if in the top 3-5 consistently they will all be in contention coming done to the end of the season.
@@wolfgangvan-uber6515 I'm sure he would've been willing to give it to Jeff Gordon, the man who should've been champion that year, if he was able to get the 4, possibly 5 that he should have. I mean, what would you rather have: 1 title, or 4? If your answer is 1, you're going to need to get yourself checked for brain damage.
Also, nobody is going to bad mouth a format they're benefitting from. Notice how Jimmie Johnson stopped criticizing the Chase when he started winning those championships. Or Tony Stewart actually called out a reporter when told that Jeff Gordon would've been leading the points at that point under the old format... when Smoke was the points leader and just won at Kansas.
The only time a points format was ever criticized by the champion was in 1985 when Darrell Waltrip complained about the Winston Cup format not awarding winning enough.
To DW's credit, he did lose the '79 championship because of that factor, and that has been a criticism even the people who want the Latford Winston Cup format back have made, but still, benefitting will tend to make you abide to a double standard.
@@CSDonohue11 I think 5 for leading a lap is too much, 3 works better. I don't think 0 for DNFs is a good idea either, after 20th it should all be 1 point that way the damaged cars stay off the track. To prevent start and parks, they are only eligible for the point if they complete X number of laps.
@@slwsnowman4038 look, I'm not in favor of nascar meddling into affairs more than you or anyone. But to prevent damaged cars getting back, they should set a standard and throw the black flag if push comes to shove. It's ridiculous to see a guy with no pace coming back for points and many laps down.
After some level of damage anyone know that it's time to sell the parts for scraps.
I think points should be a limited resource. Not for everyone.
The best part about modern NASCAR is it made me look for alternatives. Had it not been for them becomming an unwatchable mess i probably wouldnt have started watching short track sruff.
Exactly
Exactly, it has expanded my taste to short track, Indycar, IMSA and occasionally F1, all because I can barely take the sport seriously anymore!
What flo racing is doing for dirt track racing is pretty cool
winged sprint cars and dirt late models are entering into a golden era thanks to streaming
410 sprint cars are really better, should be more popular people just haven't been exposed to them
100 percent agree. I just lost interest in nascar almost immediately after the playoff system was instituted. I tried to care but i just couldn't. I was still a teenager at the time. Your channel was a nice nostalgia trip for me since I found it and Ive enjoyed following the sport indirectly through your videos... but the whole chase and stages and debris cautions are exactly the reason I could never really commit to ever paying real attention again. I watch other racing series, I follow IMSA, Indycar, F1, and even Formula Drift is always a blast to go watch. But I just cant wrap my head around NASCAR and the theatrics and I couldnt put my finger on exactly what it was until you articulated it so perfectly in this video.
I was never a huge NASCAR fan, but I remember that race day was an event at my house every week it was on in the late 90s. I never understood why I stopped watching, but this triggered some memories for me, especially the debris cautions.
I hope people from NASCAR see this. I stopped watching weekly around the time Gordon retired. I follow the dirt guys Kyle Larson, C Bell, Briscoe etc but the championship means nothing now. to me wins are the more important stat these days because since the chase/playoffs started there has only been about 2-3 champions crowned where you could legitimately say that the right driver won.
I dont think Nascars leaders have discovered the internet yet.
@@utjason8they’re probably still running moonshine/alcohol like it’s the most illegal substance around… then getting frisky with the cousin because there’s not much else to do on a hot summers day
2017 is a good pick for that
@@thicccheese4007 r/rareinsults
Gordon would have had 7 if not for stupid playoffs 🤬
Short track racing is on the rise which is a good thing
My man I'm sorry but the NFL dam is NOT holding firm. People have been freaking out about the refs for the last half decade minimum
But people still tune into the NFL in record numbers. Sad thing is the NFL can get away with anything because it gives the American people what they want - horrific violence, people beating each other to death.
I think the ratings would say otherwise
@@theamateurobserver that's the frustrating thing. NFL, NBA, MLB have all done the same things Slap points out in this video, and yet their viewership keeps going up, at least in the NFL and NBA case. ESPN keeps promoting the everloving frak out of them and the public keeps buying it.
Watched pretty much every race from 1986 through 2015. I even worked at Talladega from 1997-2015 (ran the Tri-Oval section of the speedway in a supervisory role). I hung up my headset at the end of the 2015 season and never looked back. I too got sick and tired of the all the gimmicks and BS. With each gimmick and each instance of meddling, the sanctioning body effectively killed Nascar. I watch clips on TH-cam from time to time and I honestly don't even recognize the sport anymore. The only races I watch are classics from the 80s and 90s. Nothing today worth watching.
Thanks for doing this vid. I think you nailed it. Great job Slap! Now get ready for your fine for daring to tell the truth. 🙂
Greetings from Europe!
Being a motorsports fan, I decided to watch a whole season of NASCAR a couple of years back out of curiosity. I think it was the first or second year of dividing races into stages. While I thought this seemed like a dumb system that all but removed any excitement of watching different race strategies play out (a fact that was also rued by commentators over the season) nothing prepared me for the shock of finding out about the play-off system. After watching almost 30 races, I found out the races didn't really matter and that the championship would be decided in the last race anyway, I felt ripped off, robbed of the time I had spent watching the season fold out. Never watched races again after that apart from a Talladega here and a Daytona 500 there.
I think that's a shame 'cause I was kinda getting into oval racing and was beginning to enjoy the nuances of "just turning left".
Hello Vulkan! Y'all in Europe has a minor league of NASCAR and that's the NASCAR Euro Series like a sorta division 4 series and they have other international series in Mexico, Canada and now the newly formed Brazil Sprint series and I've watch a couple race clips of the Euro Series here on YT a couple times just to see what it's like and they run on some incredible unique road courses in Europe that I didn't knew about! All I know is the tracks that F1 uses and including Nurburgring and Le Mans. Heck I didn't even know some of the tracks the NASCAR Euro series they raced is unfamiliar to me but on Brands Hatch in England that one sounds very familiar...
@@Mister_Matt_X I mean, sure, there are stock car series' in Europe too but we don't really have any oval tracks nor the history.
@@VulkanNeckPunch well, there's the Lausitzring that hosted the German round of CART.
@@thehwguy4293 True and I have watched quite a few DTM races for example run on the road course on the infield of the tri-oval. However, one oval track does not an oval series make.
Quite a tragic track too claiming the life of Michele Alboreto and the legs of Alex Zanardi.
@@thehwguy4293 Lausitzring oval has and will never be used again, too dangerous.
Honestly I've tried to go back to watching NASCAR a few times.
I want to see long green flag runs, green flag pit stops, and be treated to the occasional super dominant performance or close finish. I like seeing different strategies converging on the final laps. But none of it is special is you twist the rules to try to make it happen.
When it's the same engine, same chassis, same body, how can there be any difference in strategy?
@@johnj.baranski6553 Tuning, suspension, tires... there's still a lot of thought that comes with putting out a car that can win.
Exactly. It's funny how as hard as nascar tries they haven't come close to replicating craven/busch harvick/gordon labonte/earnhardt....you'd think with 20 green white checkereds every season we'd have finishes like this every week. It's sad nascar tries so hard to manufacture or manipulate close finishes and they still fail LOL
Yes to more green flag pit stops. Under rated comment.
@@johnj.baranski6553 In-race strategy and in-shop strategy both exist in Nascar. Any race with long green flag runs in the latter portion of the race had fuel mileage strategy - when to pit, how much fuel do we need, how do we optimize our pit stops to get ahead or keep ahead of competition. The fun was seeing it all play out. There's also the things that @sportsjefe mentioned.
The first two minutes are the best explanation of why sports are great that I've heard yet. Fair competition with objective results creates the best, fullest kind of drama. Really incredible piece, you really nailed it.
I would also add that the "win and you're in" format encourages the late-race wrecks we see all season. If a driver could know, in February, that they're guaranteed to be in the championship hunt, and all they've got to do is punt the guy in front, they'll do that every single time. Which (when combined with the actual prestige of the race) is why the past two decades at Daytona have ended with a shower of sparks and 3/4 of the field in tatters.
This video really exemplifies the problems with NASCAR. Wiping the last couple of years and going back to the OG points system would help get people back on board. When Blaney won the 2023 championship with 3 wins while William Byron had 6 the problem became even more apparent. (Matt Crafton's case aswell) I just hope NASCAR can get their act together before its too late.
on the old points system we are not exempt from a Blaney or Crafton situation. Look at Kenseth in 2003, the reason many asked for the chase in the first place. He won once in the season, was champion before the finale (the last fall Rockingham race), while Ryan Newman won 6 times and we had other muli time winners as well.
Austin Dillon in 2013 Xfinity as well, won the title with no wins during the year. It was a season long format.
The solution to this is not only coming back to the old point system (season long count), but also making points a limited resource. Like, in a field of 40, only 15 get points.
I'll keep saying it:
Nascar needs to hire this guy and let him fix the stupidity. A S1ap run Nascar would grab a lot of attention.
I guess you could say NASCAR needs to get S1apped.
As long Nascar is controlled by the France family the sport will keep drowning in irrelevancy. It's sad to see.
*Current generation of Frances. That shouldn’t diminish what Big Bill and Bill Jr accomplished.
@@zlinedavid Thing is Jim France isn't terrible either, he's led IMSA into a new sportscar golden age with success not seen since the 1980s. Hell, IMSA is more popular than IndyCar now too, ever since Roger keeps shooting Indycar in the foot.
Racing itself is entertaining. You don't need a playoff style championship, stages, and other gimmicks. Just give us cars with 900hp and are hard to drive, and a legitimate championship. Thats all I want to see.
As a NASCAR lover dating back to the only televised races being on "wide world of sports" in the 70s. I ran fantasy leagues in the 90s. And completely stopped watching altogether in the early 2000s. It is so vindicating to watch a video that encapsulates everything I felt so clearly. It wasn't all in my head! Thank you for this video!❤❤❤
Since the early 2000s I've spent more hours watching slap's videos than I have watching actual Cup races. This is mostly why.
I still love NASCAR just hate the playoffs because they take all legitimacy of the champion. I was done with it after 2020. And Kevin Harvick truly exposed the system in 2020. He basically spoke for most drivers after Martinsville in saying “these championships aren’t won like Petty and Earnhardt won them. I’d rather just win races and have the season we had”. I’m not hating on the sport either I’m a true diehard I’ve invested so much of my time and money on this sport to just stop watching. Between race tickets, diecast, hats and t shirts I love NASCAR I want things to change cause I truly do care
As do I. I was finished with it after 2018.
Harvick choked.
@@cba_2442 no. Got robbed.
@@cba_2442 there's a difference between "choking" and getting robbed. In this case, Harvick got robbed.
No, they aren't won like Petty & Earnhardt nowadays, but instead won like Johnson. Johnson has won in 3 different formats across his 7 championships, some of thosw created to also stop him from winning more while alas, he did deserved (like 2013) or not (like 2016). He played his cards right & won when it counted.
NASCAR will never go back to the full season points system, or not anytime soon at least, and the sooner that gets through people's heads the less stressed & angry people will be.
I will agree though that the 1 race championship format has to change & like Dale Jr's last 3 race finale or even revert back to the 2011 Chase points system.
My man this was an incredible video. NASCAR was and still is a huge part of my life, but it is why I choose to watch Formula 1 and IndyCar on Sundays rather than my beloved NASCAR. I still watch TH-camrs, listen to various podcasts and other content to stay up to date on my childhood sport but I simply cannot stand the direction the sport is going to. It feels like NASCAR is trying to engineer competition and excitement rather than letting it play out organically. There is nothing wrong with a team or drivers being slightly better and running away with races or the points lead. That’s the beauty of competition. Again, great video man.
This video does the best job of explaining why I feel out of love with the sport 20 years ago and haven't come back. But I long ago lost any hope of this changing.
Encourage everyone to check out professional dirt racing, sprint cars or late models, the competition level is higher than it's ever been.
I second this, series like the CARS Tour put on a good show every week
👍
man, I'm really curious as a foreigner. But it's very close to impossible for me to see it live. I'll see the highlights.
People even mentioned FloRacing, and I've checked out the website. It seems to be an aggregator for all the series mentioned by y'all
@@otaviofrn_adv yeah floracing has pretty much all of it, highly recommend subscribing to it when race season starts. Hopefully one day we'll be able to see it on TV
@@otaviofrn_adv Worth the price and there’s a short track style out there for everyone.
Watch the Lucas oil late models on floracing if you wanna see the actual top fendered series, nascar is on it's way out
problem is they also implemented a playoff format this year. They tried with one race crapshoot now they're trying a four race championship next year.
@@chromediesel444I'm totally against what they are doing with the points but the racing on dirt late models right now is phenomenal
@chromediesel1806 yeah the lucas oil points system is trash but there's less full time teams in late model racing, alot of the top teams pick and choose between multiple tours and regional events, so it's not a as much as an abomination as the nascar playoff thing, which ruined decades of legitimate history for gimmicks. Lucas oil is just trying to entice more full time teams with the the playoff and increased points payout.
Solid video essay. You articulated your points very well, and I think you connected them to your main thesis perfectly.
As a big racing fan myself, I completely understand the frustration and anger the drivers and fans feel at your beloved league collapsing such as it is. It’s hard to watch something you love die, but it’s so much worse when that death is dragged out slowly and painfully.
I am stunned at the quality of this video - just straight out of good sports TV channels 20 years ago.
Well done.
Spot on! I’d rather watch a dominant driver win repeatedly in NASCAR like F1’s Max Verstrappen. Why? Because it can’t last forever. And when he loses it’s gonna be a major upset and boost to some driver’s career.
You know it's bad, when people prefer max verstappen dominance after this jeez
F1 often has a driver dominate a season and lock up the championship long before the end. (What Verstappen did this year was insane!) Last I checked, F1 is still the global #1 in terms of racing. They don't seem to need a playoff gimmick.
(For that matter, neither does Premier League Football.)
I grew up in a national league with playoffs for a long time. Have nothing against, but tend to agree more to your Premier League argument. Everyone face each other home and away, find a way. What breaks the PL is them letting Man City slide with all irregularities and no rules applied by them in the financial aspect. My ideal would be the way they do it in Italy.
If the top 2 ends the season with less than three points separating them, they play each other in a neutral site in a final match.
F1 had shady stuff, especially Ferrari's team game when they dominate. This is the stuff that needs to be banned at all costs by all parts. Any code or mention for dirty teamwork (like Ferrari in Austria 2002 or Germany 2010) should be punished heavily.
But Ferrari holds the gun in FIA's head. If the rules are not what Ferrari wants, they know that they can leave F1 and the damage would be too serious to salvage it.
@@otaviofrn_adv Ferrari are rarely dominant, that only happens with lightning in a bottle, the vast majority of time they are dogshit.
It's always been this way.
@@otaviofrn_advFerrari aren't that dominant though. Yes, they were dominant back in the 00s but it was because most of the team personnel aren't coming from Ferrari themselves, rather they're a selection of people from the Big 3 (Todt, Brawn, & Schumacher). The most dominant Ferrari team wasn't lead, designed, & driven by the Italian side of Ferrari.
Considering how long they are in the sport, most of the time Ferrari is pretty much like what they are today. They're one of the top teams but nowhere near the top spot.
F1 absolutely has their gimmicks and cracks in the dam. The Drag Reduction System (DRS), the recent introduction of Sprint races, hell, the end of the 2021 season was a shitshow that was basically decided by the race director (who was under pressure from all teams, F1 management, etc, but still). People are actively decrying how bad it is for the sport to have one driver dominate the whole season
Both F1 and EPL have their own problems with sport manipulation though...just not as bad as NASCAR.
I thought this was gonna be about a Nascar race track on a dam. I must be losing my mind
Got to bed fam
NASCAR (Not A Serious Considerate Automobile Race)
S1ap cookin’ once again when it comes to one of the main flaws in NASCAR!
If you say 16 flaws, I'll agree with you. 🤣🤣
@@GregBrownsWorldORacing 16 flaws? That’s too small😂
@@GregBrownsWorldORacingevery flaw with NASCAR:
-playoffs
-charter System
-officiating
-yellow line rule
-weakness to taking criticism
-Gen 7 safety
-weak/lack of punishments for intentional wrecks
-field limit being shortened from 43 to 40
-the fanbase
-Texas
-The Xfinity series
-half of the truck series field
-pay drivers
-goodyear
-coverage (NBC and Fox are both bad)
-Jim Utter still having a job
-Leeching
-promoting awful on track behavior from drivers
-allowing Sean Hingorani to do races
-destroying ARCA
And many more.
You got that right he's definitely on FIRE!!! Lighting up the sanctioning body like a bunch of candle sticks with straight up FACTS!!!
I am always all for the season long points system. The question I have for NASCAR is, all other racing series are using a season long format. Why NASCAR had to be different? What wasn't working? A championship won before the last race? Great. Congratulations to the dominant team and driver that won, it's part of the sport. But when the championship actually goes to the final race, it's a magical moment. Crowning an undeserving champion just because you wish to manufacture excitement just takes away from the moment and all the legitimacy from the title. I'm a Blaney fan, but Byron deserved the championship. By implementing the playoffs, you just take away all the importance from the non playoff races. In a season long fight, every race result matters. Every new race ads to an evolving storyline. In the current system, all those races don't really matter. So why people would watch? Why should I watch a random race in May if what transpires at that race barely matters? But in a season long fight, EVERY race matters. So there's incentive to watch the whole season.
I know they've said they want to always have the "game 7 moment" but its incredibly stupid because ACTUAL GAME 7S ARENT EVEN GUARANTEED, THE RANGERS FUCKING SMOKED THE DIAMONDBACKS IN 5, THE KNIGHTS SMOKED THE PANTHERS IN 5, THE NUGGETS SMOKED THE HEAT IN 5. That shit legit just didn't happen, we didn't get any game 7s this year. Its like you get to the World Series and you make them play all 7 games but just give it to whoever gets the last one. Sorry Rangers, you won 6 in a row but the Diamondbacks won game 7 so they're the champions. Like, I'm not saying MLB, NHL, or NBA champions are the most idiotproof completely legitimate systems there are, but I think they're more legit than NASCAR's system.
Watch EllyProduction’s video on the Chase to better understand why NASCAR executives felt the need to change the points system. It was a bad solution but there was at least some reason for it
@@drumnbasssakuga9352 I have watched that video, thanks for the recommendation. Again, whatever reasons were stated I don't feel any of them makes diverting from a season long points system excusable.
It was introduced because NASCAR was at it’s highest point then, and Brian France foolishly thought that he could keep people from watching the NFL by making the fight for the title more “exciting”.
@@alexisborden3191 Game 7 moments are also organic. They aren’t manufactured by the sanctioning body. That’s what makes them special.
This is excellent work. I am not a NASCAR fan and know very little about it, but I learned a great deal from this and really enjoyed it from start to finish. I had no idea that unions were a part of earlier eras of the sport. Fascinating stuff.
22:00 this is what everyone has been trying to ignore for years now, but we can't do that anymore since it's so damn apparent at this point, it's basically impossible to turn and look away from it now.
NASCAR is suffering from what many multi-generational businesses do. A combination of the latest generation not being as driven or competent as the founder, exacerbated by changes in the operating environment. It's quite rare for multi-generational family businesses survive 3 generation. The are either sold because the new owners realize they are just not up to the task. There is a reason FORD stands out as a family run business, it's a true rarity to have 3 competent family members run the company. Henry , Edsel and The Deuce.....Brian France ain't the deuce, in fact he is sorta A deuce.
Less of a Deuce, and more of a Dunce
I didn't know Ford is still a family-owned business.
@@valutaatoaofunknownelement197 FoMoCo was a family RUN business until 1980. If the Ford family wanted to do something it happened. Lee Iacocca had a bit to say about it in his biography, and anywhere else he could vent.
@@markalbert9011 Ah. Thanks for the clarification. I also didn't know about that.
The only other manufacturer that did this is Toyota with Akio Toyoda now as chairman. Luckily Akio himself is a racer hence why we see the rise of Gazoo Racing banners everywhere now.
The most frustrating thing on this planet is looking at the management of an organization saying "I could do their jobs 10x better than them for half of what they're getting paid." Steve Phelps is no better than Brian France, he just has fewer DUIs on his record. "We're hearing that people like what they're seeing," as the entire fanbase that I can see is disappointed or angry with the product because they can't seem to figure out how to build a racing package.
Tony Stewart was right, let's just run figure 8s from now on. In addition we should also replace the powertrain of these cars with that of an electric go-kart because they're still making too much horsepower. Or maybe we should just put actual horses out in front of the cars, then we'll start getting those chariots of fire references going again. "The fans like what they see." Maybe if we all stop watching, they'll see just how much we like what we're seeing.
A figure-8 circuit (with a bridge/tunnel setup, not a level crossing) actually would be pretty neat as a gimmick track. Having Turns 1 and 2 be clockwise while turns 3 and 4 are widdershins could lead to some interesting racing as the inner and outer lanes swap back and forth. You get the speed of an oval and the dynamics of a road course.
@@alaeriia01eight bowl speedway from NR 2003. I've done it for fun a few times, and indeed, a non-contact figure 8 circuit provide unusually tense and fast racing.
@@valutaatoaofunknownelement197 I thought so!
20:52 I know a guy who's 18 years old calling out everyone who said Logano, KFB, and Blaney are Mickey Mouse Champions with, quote, "Winston format jerkers can hold"
Yet, in the same breath, he called Elliott & JJ Mickey Mouse Champions because, surprise surprise, they're Hendrick drivers
It's refreshing to hear this - particularly the significance of the races versus the championship. Growing up, my favorite drivers were hardly title contenders - the excitement was whether they'd win a race. I still think race wins are special to the drivers - Chastain said as much in his interview at Phoenix. But the sport simply isn't presented that way right now, and at a great cost to storylines.
I always felt one of the cool things about NASCAR in the 1990’s and 2000’s was when an unexpected driver would win a race especially late in the season when they were only racing for pride. Johnny Benson, Ricky Craven, John Andretti, Jerry Nadeau among others winning a race seemed like a nice change of pace from Gordon, Johnson, Earnhardt, etc. winning every week. Since the playoffs started especially it seems like everyone outside of the playoffs just seems to hang out, and not get in anyone’s way. You never see the driver who is 23rd in points going for a win at say Texas or Martinsville in late October/ November anymore.
I hate that drivers after winning a race only talk about making the playoffs or getting more playoff points. I miss winning for the sake of winning
Let’s Fix the GD point system
So 1st should be 50 points
2nd 25 points
3rd 15 points
4th 10 points
5th 9 points
6th 7 points
7th 6 points
8th 5 points
9th 4 points
10th 3 points
Then 11th 2 points
Then 12th on back is 1 point for finishing
DNF’s no points
Most laps led is 11 Bonus points
2nd most laps led is 7 Bonus points
Leading a lap is 5 Bonus points
That way You can go all out for Wins
and if you’re Winning then you can blow a couple engines & a couple wrecks and still be in the Top few spots
It will make it so that Winning is worth going all out
But 2nd is still worth enough more than the rest not to wreck
Yourself going for a W
That’s how it needs to be done
Telling You
The Top Winners
and The Best avg finishers if in the top 3-5 consistently they will all be in contention coming done to the end of the season.
Also
18:31 Dude wth is this ???!!
Did weirdo just wipe the drivers mouth ?! 🤨 😳
WTH is going on around there 🤨
Weird
@@CSDonohue11 Here is what my points system looks like:
Winning a race: 250 points
2nd to 5th: 200 points, going down by 10 points per position
6th to 10th: 150 points, going down by 5 points per position
11th to 43rd: 120 points, going down by 3 points per position
Winning the pole: 5 points
Leading a lap: 5 points (except for the last lap)
Leading the most laps: 10 points (5 points for leading a lap and 5 for leading the most laps)
Finishing on the lead lap: 1 points (except for race winner)
No stages or stage points
No playoff points (ideally no playoffs either)
Ideally no charters or significantly less charters (like top 20 in points from previous year, or max 2 per organization or something)
The gap between 1st and 2nd is big enough that going for a win is worth it. There is a 20 point gap between 5th and 6th, and a 10 point gap between 10th and 11th. These gaps represent that finishing top 5 or top 10 is an important achievement and more important than finishing 11th or below. Finishing 43rd gets you 24 points which means there is a 226 point gap between 1st and 43rd (or a 217 point gap to 40th with the current amount of cars), which is a significant amount which punishes a poor finish for a championship contender. Also 24 points (or 33) is a large enough gap that not qualifying for a race is also punished. Fastest 43 (or 40) cars qualify (limited charters may affect this). It doesn't matter if you are leading the points, you wreck in qualifying without a charter, good luck next week! Winning the pole should matter. Leading a lap should matter. Leading the most laps should matter. Also the point for finishing on the lead lap may cause more excitement as drivers may be less inclined to just pull over for the leaders, even late in the race when there is a battle for the win. This system would reward winning as well as reward consistency. If you go back to the 1990's and early 2000's, the championship winner almost always finished in the top 5 each week, and a bad week would be something like a 15th place finish. This way a driver hypothetically couldn't win say 15 races in a year, and have 10 DNF's and still be a championship contender. Consistency matters more than outright winning. Also the less charters should open the field up for more organizations to compete in Cup, and would make for a more competitive field of drivers which would benefit the fans and add potential owners like Dale Earnhardt Jr. which would increase NASCAR's popularity.
Not to mention, it's hurt NASCAR's ratings. NASCAR's pride is hurting them so much that they actually have to tell people that their attendance numbers have gone up... Despite never recording those numbers.
Thanks for explaining the reasons why I started watching Indycar. Went to the Texas race back in April, sat in the front row and watched them go 220mph. You wouldn't believe how fast that is in person. That was also the best race I have ever attended in person. I have never been more amped up to watch my favorite driver potentially win, only to have his chances taken away at the last moment. My hat slammed the ground hard as soon as I realized the race was over. Still came home second so I couldn't be too mad about it.
I believe it. I sat at the breaking point for Turn 1 at Long Beach 2002.
Here after nascar vp of competition confirmed on mrn radio that denny hamlin jumped the restart yet they did nothing to penalize it
Absolutely the best NASCAR related video I have ever watched! Every point you made was spot on! Merry Christmas!
The bad part is that many people that are beggining to watch NASCAR today will think this is the best that it can get and what NASCAR did in the past was worse
Everybody just wants moments. Every play a highlight. It devalues them all.
You once again are spot on. There's nothing I can add to everything you've said.
Amazing when every race was 400-500 laps or miles and a championship was clinched before the finale. Ratings were much higher as was attendance.
Nascar managed to push away it's core fans for the younger market, hoping to cash in on their $$. Not realizing that the younger crowd isn't making the same amount of $$.
Thank you again for pointing out the ratings, cautions and all the other instances of Nascar's blatant manipulation of races.
I’m 18 and have been watching NASCAR since I was young. I can say first hand that we aren’t bringing enough to the sport and running off people like my grandparents who inspired my love for the sport isn’t helping you. I was blind to all of these issues as I didn’t know better and that’s what NASCAR is trying to take advantage of. I would like to see some major changes but like everyone else says it’s very likely never going to happen.
@@BunnyMobile. I, like you, started watching Nascar at a very young age. I'm sure the older fans at the time had some grumblings that had happened in the 70's and early 80's before I had started watching (1984 was my first year watch nearly all the races).
I appreciate that you have interest in Nascar history and recognize that Nascar is obviously going in the wrong direction with many things.
As a conversation starter, I'd be interested to know what changes you would like to see or have seen and don't like.
@@highoctanecards Have seen, not much I never really dove into stuff like this until I found EmpLemon,SlapShoes, and EllyProductions. Things I think would be cool to see just as I have talked to my dad some is more unique tracks, maybe full on dirt tracks and not just a changed Bristol. And speaking of Bristol bring back the underglow that was cool and unique. And I think something my dad suggested race some tracks backwards. Imagine how different something like Daytona would be going the opposite direction on the track. I’m sure some modifications to walls and openings would have to be made. But if that’s to much use a road course and go backwards. Or at the least change the course at least every 3 years. Playoff format is cool but I would like to see the old season long format back for that was before my time. And stop having the championship at F-ing phoenix that track is so boring. I think the most exciting track for a championship would definitely be Martinsville
@@BunnyMobile. I would also like to see an actual dirt track, Eldora, Knoxville etc.
Running in the opposite direction would be way too dangerous as the driver would be too close to the wall. I know that racing is naturally a dangerous sport, that would increase injury chances tremendously.
I encourage you to watch a few different season finales from past years that were pre chase/playoff era. A few that I would recommend are the years of; 1992, 1988, 1995 and 1996. Each of these years had very different storylines and the presentation was nicely done.
There are also several races from the 80's and 90's with plenty of excitement throughout the entire race.
I like the GWC rule to help ensure a green flag finish. The out of bounds at the speedways I also like, though it has been the cause of many wrecks.
It will be interesting to see what 2024 brings.
@@highoctanecards Appreciate the recommendations I’ll check out the old races those are always good, I’m excited for next year as long as at least the all star race is done better 🤦🏻♂️
Watching NASCAR turn into “sports entertainment” is like watching your best bud get Alzheimer’s and him slowly forgetting who he is
You are an expert storyteller. I became a NASCAR fan because of this channel.
I was at the fall bristol race in 2022 and there were several non playoff drivers who blew tires while leading no caution came out towards the end of the race a playoff driver blew a tire and the caution came out
Brian France saying what Lagano did was "Quentisential NASCAR", then Kenseth got payback at Martinsville, which is standard, then suspended. What happened to quentisential? I was done.
It’s sad to me to see what’s become of NASCAR. It was a huge part of my childhood growing up and it’s just a joke compared to what it was then and I honestly think that it’s too late to fix anything. I was a huge Jimmie Johnson fan (before he started winning everything), and while his run of dominance brought me immense joy as a kid, looking back now I really just see it as someone who cracked the code and played the system. Without the gimmicky end of season chase/playoffs there’s not a chance in hell he wins five in a row, which is another reason why massive amounts of people started leaving, you look at the ratings and the decline lines up pretty well with that string of five in a row. People love parody, and while I thought it was sick as fuck at the time and Jimmie is still my GOAT, but in a Motorsport where all drivers are theoretically supposed to be on a level playing field, hence “stock car” literally being in the name of the organization, that kind of thing just does not happen with a standard points championship system. In my eyes NASCAR is drifting closer and closer to WWE levels of legitimacy, they’re still constantly trying to manufacture their own story lines instead of just letting the stories write themselves. While I still don’t think there is really any salvaging what’s left of the good ole days, there are super easy rule changes NASCAR could default back to in order to help at least put a bandaid on things rather than just trying to come up with something new, if only someone told them “if the toy ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it”.
Consistently excellent analysis, commentary, and presentation, S1ap. I always look forward to your views. I wonder, have you read Chris Economaki's autobiography, "Let 'Em All Go!"? I think you channel his spirit and passion for the sport in every essay you produce.
Some many great drivers out there that should be in a cup car!! Not enough money
Check out dirt racing it's easier to watch the national tours now with streaming. Floracing and Dirtvision are the two streaming companies
The season long championship format Nascar had in the Winston Cup era produced fantastic drama! Literally the only thing wrong with it was that it didn't quite reward enough points for winning. If they just went back to that format with a bigger bonus for winning and left everything else alone for five to ten years, I can pretty much guarantee you the sport's popularity would start shooting back up. A season long quest for the championship is tremendous content and helps mold legitimate stars casual fans want to see each week!
Agree. Once they hit about the 10th race of the year, I started not only watching my favorite drivers (Kulwicki/Gordon), but where they were in relation to the drivers just in front or just behind them jn the points chase. It became kind of a race within a race.
The thing with that was…even if my guy didn’t win, it was just as good if for example, Gordon finished 4th but Earnhardt finished 10th. Didn’t win, but made progress towards that championship.
@@zlinedavid Exactly! And along those lines, there was nothing else in sports quite like a day when the overall points leader ran into trouble (either via crash or mechanical issues). Every other fanbase knew they were going to pick up major ground that day with even a decent finish. The level of excitement in the crowd was palpable! Now, if the point leader runs into the trouble in a spring or summer race, it's just a big "whatever, see what happens with them next week" type of vibe. It's just become so hollow!
@@MatthewGross87 That was exactly the setup for 1992. Bill Elliott had mechanical problems coming down the stretch at both Charlotte and Phoenix, while Davey and Alan ran very strong. Davey won at Phoenix which gave him the lead going to Atlanta and….well anyone that even remotely follows NASCAR knows what happened from there.
@@zlinedavid Perfect example! With the season long Cup battle, you're not guaranteed a final race where the championship is hanging in the balance, but when you do get it, it means so, so much more! The level of drama is so much greater that even decades later, we all remember what happened. The manufactured thing they have now just do that because everybody knows we didn't arrive at that point naturally throughout an entire season's body of work. I just wish the folks who run NASCAR would realize that.
@@zlinedavid That's how I watched the seasons back then.
As an Australian that fell out of interest in NASCAR when Gordon retired and they tried to force their streaming and took it off Fox Sports (They changed this, its back now). Watching Supercars talent like SVG has revived my interest in the sport but I know I'm gonna lose so much interest as the season goes due to its stupid season structure which goes against every other motorsport category on the planet.
Wow... ~Every single NASCAR race~ is F1 Abu Dhabi 2021. That's astonishing.
Personally don’t mind the playoffs but like literally everyone else I hate the fact it comes down to one race. Last race has pretty much become a luck of the draw. All the champions in NASCAR are deserving as they won with the rules given, but NASCAR should seriously change up the last few races.
if we HAD to take a playoffs formula, would rather have the early chase era compared to this
It's like they watched Pixar's Cars and went "yesss, one race to determine the whole season, brilliant"
*especially* because ovals are inherently a bit more random than road courses. F1 having a playoff format still wouldn't be good, but it wouldn't be anywhere nearly as bad as in NASCAR, because most years only the best 2-3 driver/car combinations win a race, and the best driver wins the most. NASCAR isn't like that.
It’s sad that NASCAR has become more predictable than the WWE, and no one can deny that.
Now we know the reason why fan attendance and TV numbers have continued to go down since 2004.
The Carl Edwards screw job, How NASCAR screwed Carl Edwards. Edwards was screwed out of the Budweiser Shootout at Daytona in 2006 but the biggest Carl Edwards screw job was when he was screwed out of the championship at Homestead in 2006. Can you think of any more races that Carl Edwards or any other drivers were screwed out of or championships and make a video about it?
the entire 2011 championship when Tony Stewart cheated on the restarts
I appreciate your explanation of the Dam of Legitimacy. I had never heard the term before but it makes so much sense.