The Cylons biggest flaw was their belief in their perfection. They couldn't adapt their fleet because that would mean admitting their plan was hopelessly flawed. They just pressed on and on with their flawed ships because it was easier than admitting they made a mistake. Look what happened when they finally had to stop and look at themselves, the Cylon race went to civil war.
They wiped out 99.99% of humanity in a single strike. If I remember correctly it's stated at one point that Cavil was hoping for 65-80% at best. The 12 colonies are totally and utterly destroyed, Colonial Fleet is gone and mankind is exiled to a backwater planet with no technology. If the Cylons ultimate goal was to prevent mankind from ever threatening them again, they achieved that objective in every way.
What the hell was the plan if Galactica, Pegasus and the RTF didn't escape? Nuke the colonies into oblivion, round up the survivors, all suffering from extreme radiation poisoning, and try to mate with them? That's a plan?
The base star is the embodiment of a single word: overconfidence. The Cylons were so confident in their virus that they built their fleet around a single strategy. While the plan itself was very sound, the lack of any meaningful backup plan if they virus failed meant that the cylons effectively went all in on a single plan and were left more vulnerable. After all, the Cylon colony was lost to a single aged battlestar, and while the battlestar was lost, so was the Colony. Edit: wording.
I don't fully agree. Obviously, relying on a single kind of warship for all purposes is a dumb idea, though the colonies obviously did that as well. They seem to have had hundreds of battlestars and nothing else. In both cases it would make more sense to have support vehicles that could do other tasks. Basically the Cylon Base ships were like modern American carriers that rely entirely on their fighters for everything, which, given their numbers, their ability to regrow, their sentience, and their mastery of hyperspace, seems pretty reasonable. Battlestars are closer to WW2 Battlecarriers, which weren't a great idea. They weren't really good battleships and they weren't really good carriers. I think their real shortcoming is just the lack of flexibility in their crews thinking.
@@mahatmarandy5977 But the Colonials did have other vessels. Besides the fact that Battlestars were more versatile than Basestars, the Colonials also had other vessels such as gunstars, cruisers and frigates. Battlestars still had nuclear launch tubes and more modern Battlestars like the Mercury and Valkyrie had conventional missiles, similar to a basestar's. This, coupled with their superior fighters and flak screens meant they were far better than Basestars. Basestars are similar to modern carriers, true, but modern carriers never go anywhere without escorting vessels. Modern carriers even have their own point defense and surface to air missile systems so they aren't completely useless on their own whereas a Basestar is helpless without its raiders. I'd very much disagree with you that Battlestars aren't good Battleships, the Galactica survives years of combat without a refit and half of her armour plating missing which is pretty impressive and her main armament is clearly enough to wreck a Basestar in short order. That goes without mentioning the Mercury class which is even more heavily armoured and can destroy a Basestar in a single salvo. The Colonials definitely had a better doctrine.
I think it was the other way around- that the cylons developed the virus because all they had to work with was the basestars, which I think the final five developed, not the significant seven, the seven just inherited the basestars and then cavil erased their memories so they repurposed the basestars as war ships. This is all conjecture but I think it fits well with the story and explains why the basestars are so lacking and why the cylons invested so much into the virus; the virus was their own creation and the basestars were just a place to sleep and they shared it with thousands of raiders so the basestars weren't really under the significant seven's complete control. The significant Seven realized they'd be vulnerable in the basestars in an assault, so they developed the virus as their first wave. They didn't trust the raiders to overpower the Colonials which is just unsettling- the raiders and humanoids were never in complete harmony but they shared the basestars because that's how the final five left them and with their memories being erased they just went along with it
Manik i don't recall ever seeing the other kinds of colonial ships you're talking about. Where were they? The original implied that Battlestars usually had support shipss, but we never saw any
A lot of people talk shit about this design, how inappropriate and dumb it is for the opposition it faced. But in truth, it's perfect. It doesn't need guns nor flak. It was meant to jump in, disable battlestars and then tear them apart with nukes and raiders. The plan was solid, and it worked in 99%. The one missing variable was Galactica which could not be disabled. And against Galactica, Basestar design was awful. Pegasus, which also could not be disabled, could eat these for breakfast. But Basestar was not MEANT to face operational Battlestars! Battleships of WW2 could not effectively fight submarines either, but no one expected them to. There were aircraft and destroyers for that role. But submarines were expected, thus Battleships traveled with fleets ready to cover them from such threats. Galactica and Pegasus were not expected, and then underestimated. I guess if more than 1 (and as was later found out, 2) Battlestars survived the Holocaust, Cylons would crank out some support vessels with flak and cannons. But just for Galactica, I guess, they didn't care enough... until it was too late ;)
Yeah but, there were battleships and carriers and destroyers and submarines. Not just battleships after battleships after battleships, and even after everything nothing was done to fix the issue but more battleships. That's what's wrong with the Cylons.
-- You make some good points, but Battleships in the early 20th century had destroyers, corvettes, and frigates to protect the BB against a submarine. The Cylons have no such escorts, or never developed them when faced with the operational battlestars. Having a single uniform capital ship and no other ships is always gonna have massive flaws.
Humanoid Cylon Daniel: Why don't we construct a complementary capital ship that's a pure battleship for close range slugfest?. _And that's how all the threes got boxed…_
And he didn't get boxed, he got corrupted, so even if they wanted to they could never bring him back. And the Cylon's main weakness was allowing a douche like Cavil to be anywhere close to being in charge.
@@CheezyDee they (significant Seven and raiders too really) didn't really know that he was a douche and they didn't put him in charge. He took control by erasing the final five from memory and manipulated everything to seem as though they were harmoniously cooperating with the significant Seven. And then they slowly publicly took control once things weren't going how they planned. The Cavils really fucked everything up. I think the whole series is a result of the Cavils really, they started shit they couldn't finish and things got way out of hand
to be honest . the way it was designed as a single purpious because of faith in the plan was genius writing allowing galactica to survive while making it a totally realistic possibility that it would struggle against her while still being able to pull off the flawless surprise attack on the colonies .
@Chris George alphastar is an ai google created that recognizes patterns and self learns. It is already the top ai in chess/go/starcraft 2/ probably other games as well. It cant slaughter humans in chess/go/basically any board game its been taught. In SC2 it can be in the top few hundred on ladder.
@Chris George It just learns patterns so if you know you are playing against it against sc2 you can cheese it by doing things it hasnt seen very much, but since you dont know and you play standard then it has a high chance at beating you. Board games are a lot simpler to learn so it basically is the de facto best player on the world atm.
I can't remember who it was, but someone intimately connected to Galactica said that the Cylons concentrated all their efforts on a sneak attack because they had learned that they simply could not defeat humanity in a fair fight. Just for the heck of it, the Base Ships in the original Galactica (And presumably the identical ones we see in some flashbacks in the new Galactica) carried 300 fighters each. A battlestar carried a maximum of 150 fighters. Both these were stated onscreen. And just because I'm an uber-geek and they're both biotech with fighters, I've always wanted to see one of these Basestars go up against a Wraith hive ship.
I mean that would be cool...but how about Galactica against the Ori or even the (cant spell but worm belly bad guys) but yeah mish mashing sci fi is always a fucking blast. Ever see this gem? If not...your god damn welcome ;) th-cam.com/video/3kJaa1tdUQE/w-d-xo.html Also man SGA had some amazing fucking battles - the sense of dread after the battle of the supergate as a cliffhanger had me so fucking depressed. But when they killed their first one..by killing a wraith at the same time - I fucking cheered!
I love the basestar, such a menacing sight when it jump's in. What's more scarier is that they carry more nukes than a battlestar. Props to the designer👏👏
It's BSG's Venator: A beautifully designed, highly specialized warship that dominates in it's intended purpose; yet is haphazardly pressed into the "do everything role" by it's owners.
I don't see why some base stars couldn't be re-configured for capital ship combat, as the attack on their Colony showed they had functional ballistic tech. Just remove the fighter wing and fit with guns&armour...
@@Negativvv That is definitely more a problem of the Cylons as a people, but not necessarily a design flaw for the ship. The ship design serves its specific purpose. The Cylons *should* have escorted them with anti-battlestar frigates similar to those they had during the first Cylon War. I have myself also thought about that, though. Don't even need to remove any hanger space or missile silos. The ship has literal kilometers of unused surface area.
@@Negativvv I don't really think the rotating design of the ship would make for a good gun boat. Unless they could stop the traverse when getting the guns ready.
He;s already done this one o the Gou'uld: th-cam.com/video/yw1iwq0HzDg/w-d-xo.html And there's a couple on the Daedalus-Class: th-cam.com/video/vHGavohIQ6I/w-d-xo.html, th-cam.com/video/hurJGIIRzM8/w-d-xo.html
@Chris George, if Ha'tak fires balls of plasma/energy, ONE hit could paralyse Battlestar. One hit in central column. They would need several dozens of battlestars to drain shields of a standard Ha'tak class vessel, wouldn't they? And I'm not talking about motherships of Anubis and Apophis. They're just superweapons.
I think it would be cool to see a video on how the Cylon Basestar design has evolved from its first incarnation in the First Cylon War (called Hades-class in some sources), to this model, with the Argos-class, the Cratus-class, the Blood & Chrome variant, and the Guardian type in between them.
If you like BSG, I'd highly suggest watching The Expanse. I've just binge watched it and it is amazing, it kinda has Mass Effect vibes in the later seasons.
It's BSG's Venator: A beautifully designed, highly specialized warship that dominates in it's intended purpose; yet is haphazardly pressed into the "do everything role" by it's owners.
Except the Venator had the advantage of being used by the protagonists, which means it still got to win a lot despite being thrown outside of its comfort zone. Basestars weren't afforded many freebie wins.
@@nickolas474 Very true. And the Venator was also heavily armored, at least to the point of being able to withstand simultaneous bombardment to her ventral hull by the main guns of 6 munificent(?)-class frigates.
@@soldovah9649 I probably wouldn't go around listing that in the specs though, must've been a nightmare to repair afterwards haha I forget, was that ship scrapped after the ryloth campaign? I assume not because I think anakin's flagship name remains "resolute" afterwards, but my memory of these details is really fuzzy
Just finished a rewatch of the entire series! I love the worldbuilding with the physics and technology that has its unique touch of the RDM BSG universe!
I just adore the more Industrial mechanized science fiction. none of that flashey star trek energy beams everywhere stuff. unfortunately there's only like a tiny handful of them out there to enjoy.
The Cyclon basestars of the second Cylon war also possess no obvious external sublight drives, unlike the Colonial ships. It's been unanswered thus far in canon as to how the Cylon basestars even move, but the wiki has postulated that they generate their own gravity to "propel" themselves at sublight speeds. IIRC, they are also fully capable of atmospheric flight as well (something a Battlestar can't do due to its sheer mass).
Love the BSG content, working on a little prototype/demo game for BSG, absolute favourite series. Speaking of games though, recently started playing Battletech, and the player ship in that, the Argo, has an awesome combination of centrifugal and thrust gravity, maybe even video worthy, although it isn't a dedicated warship.
Im desperate for Spacedock to cover Battletech. Not the videogame, the universe. I wanna see a video on the Atlas, and one on the Union Dropship at least.
@@boatcaptain6288 if you haven't already seen it, check out Tex Talks Battletech. He covers mechs and history (also it's his own material not just reading sarna.net line by line) here he talks about the Tripitz Affair and the extinction of warships: th-cam.com/video/DRWUkq_R6Os/w-d-xo.html Also the Atlas: th-cam.com/video/sSFGE0mHg0I/w-d-xo.html
@@BNRmatt Just a little project to occupy some spare time and to scratch my itch of wanting to control Battlestars, among other ships. It's a slow burner but here's the latest twitter.com/Charlie_G_G/status/1224386040317825031?s=20
Quite a rare sight to browse in the comment section and actually see good communication and manners, yes they're some spots were it doesn't go well, but hey you're human after all... the important thing is to not reach those extremes and don't get polarized by something that can be forgotten the next day.
Honestly the colonials would have beat the Cylons in a head to head fleet match no doubt The Galactica alone outmatched every basestar it came across, just think of what all 120 Battlestars could have done in a conventional war
You are absolutely right, that was the reason they went through the trouble of creating the virus. They knew they had no chance against the colononiels in a conventional war
Head to head would've never been possible since the cylons never would've created a similar sized fleet of their own. That's part of why their basestars have such an insane amount of strike craft. So I think the basestars would've not had any war experience. I don't think many of the Colonial basestars had even seen battle action until the fall, I mean, what enemy would they have been fighting like, the cylons had disappeared forty years prior. Essentially both fleets were built on the fantastical whim that their civilizations might go to war. In the end the Colonial fighters were all noobs when it came to battle and the cylon raiders were just programmed. Too bad the cylons outsmarted the Colonials by hacking the defense mainframe otherwise this could've been an adult rated space blood fest of interplanetary proportions
WatchBoy52 as things were standing you are of course right But because they found a virus solution plus infiltration they did not need other tactics If that would not have worked, i am pretty sure they would not have launched the attack and would have retrofitted their fleets first
@@Cross_111 what would they have retrofitted their ships with? I think the biological models were perfectly content with sending a hundred thousand raiders out as they themselves remain comfortably in the basestars doing nothing but watching
ok ok I know that as the show went on the Basestar's got...shall we say "buffed" but as a seasoned Sci-Fi nerd that had no idea the show was even made (somehow it was not on my radar) I remember going in cold when I watched the miniseries and man...you dont know what they are, you dont know their firepower hell you dont even know what class - if any - it even IS.....but god damn is it intimidating as F)#$! I mean just the site of one of these things in the show...last time I felt that way was maybe DS9 with the dominion battleship or even TNG with the Borg...it also helps its a much different approach to ship design compared to most sci-fi at the time (most WELL KNOWN SICI ok guys?) and I will never forget the effect it had on me for this show ;) Great video as always chap! Cape Cod, MA!
I used to criticize the Base Star design for not having any sort of point defense. But in retrospect, it is actually perfectly in line with the history of the Cylons themselves being (mostly) mechanical. They didn't have those systems as they didnt need them. Such defense is only required by the linear mortal.
The cylon basestars really needed a support craft, like a frigate or battleship that could take multiple shots from a battlestar's artillery, so that they could defend the more lightly armoured basestars and allow them to launch Raiders and missiles without coming under fire.
Well spoken and I appreciate your comments. In-depth critical analyzed & perception from a certain point of view! Intriguing, fascinating and to the point...
Another awesome video as usual SD. Love the re-visits to ships previously covered. There were a few shots in the vid that I don’t recognise from the show tho. Are they from extended material like ‘Blood and Chrome’?
This was a great break down. I miss this show. Haven't thought about this for awhile but the Cylons as a species still exist in the Colonies. Till the modern era more then likely. Or am I forgetting something
I think one way to improve these would be to have a standard rail canon battery at the tips of the basestars triangular structures and the top of them, adding a small backup/close range alternative to the guided missiles. Either that or having much smaller and sparsely spread out cluster missile launchers meant to dissuade vipers or other colonial vessels of that size from getting too close, it can also deal with “clusters” of vipers if close enough, but would also have a limited tracking system on board to pursue fighters and even hit them in odd occasions if spread out. They could have had some of their deadlock predecessors in the fleet as a close range attack vessel but the time between the game and the show and whatnot, but yeah that would have been better than any strategy they fielded. But for what they did have in mind for the basestar initially it played its part, but then later could’ve dealt with an upgrade.
Just an FYI Daniel, all 3 video links that you have attached at the end of this video say they are blocked/removed. But every video is still available on your channel just fine. Especially the officers club/patreon link.
Is it just for the Rule of Cool that the Basestars aren't _already_ in the laterally-aligned configuration? What advantages does the default configuration offer over the atmospheric configuration?
Likely better for missile coverage and optimal fighter launch position. The shorter arms don't have as many hardpoints or launch bays. There's also no heavy artillery for the ship to be in a triangular shape that can bring most cannons to bear like a Star Destroyer
But when are you going to do a breakdown of the NTE-3120 NSEA-Protector from Galaxy Quest? I love that ship (and movie) and would love to see a breakdown of it.
Remember how in BSG Deadlock, they would have multiple variations of the Basestar, including one that not only has the rapid fire and reload missiles, but quick firing artillery cannons to combat even the toughest battlestars?
I wouldn't say it dwarfs the Mercury Battlestars since it's only about 100 meters longer. That, and the Pegasus smacked one with a flight pod and it exploded, so there's definitely a difference in terms of overall mass.
In the first Cylon War the Battlestars were designed to have low tech systems but 40 years later there are sophisticated computers on the advanced newer Battlestars but I do love the Pegasus R.I.P.
I wonder whatever happened to the other basestars and there crews after the destruction of the cylon colony, we see that there are many more basestars during the attack of the colonies than we see destroyed in the show it’s even mentioned before the attack on the cylon colony that two basestars are seen leaving the colony which shows the galactic the only safe point to jump into the colony. I wonder what they would have done after discovering that the colony was destroyed.
Why the Cylons didn't have auxiliary designs from the first Cylon war lying around in reserve is beyond me. Even just a single Revenant or Arachne could've helped the Cylons chew up the Galactica and would've given them a contingency plan that wouldn't have even cost the Cylons much to keep around.
What I love about the baseship design is that they all look the exactly the same, stressing it's machine design, unlike the colonial ships where in the fleet each is unique and even battlestars have many types and many unique modification per ship. And in the last season the rebel baseship was made damage in such a way that it was instantly recognizable by the viewer. Instead of getting carried away and designing many different ships for the cylons, the creators went with the mass produced computer generated design, yet were able to single one of the ships out when it was necessary.
If I remember right, the last episodes had shown humans operating a basestar, executing the command the humanoid cylons do. But the deeper interface with the basestar would make the operator a little posthuman.
It's run by a biological cylon model that has its brain integrated into the ship via a resurecection goo pool I think the cylons can control a lot of functions but ultimately the ship has a mind of its own via that goo pool model
The basestars are sentient, having a living humanoid Cylon called a hybrid permanently installed and serving as a literal brain for the ship. She can refuse orders, as we've seen a few times before, though her main data connection can be unplugged. This allows for her control to be circumvented.
@@soldovah9649 wait, so Basestars are weak to chemical and biological weapons? So basically coat railgun slugs in some [Redacted] matter and wait for it to take an effect? Or better yet irradiate the fuckers and wait for the ship to become flying cancer? I've thought it worked only against Wraith, Tyranids and so on.
I like this design of base star. It makes sense in the context of the initial plan and shows the machine like thinking of the cylons. Once they'd nuked the twelve colonies they'd essentially won the war. The few survivors that were still alive in the remnant fleet, to give them a good name from the cylon point of view; could have been wiped out at any point with a mass fleet attack of about 50 base stars and all their fighters. It would have been a slaughter. The machines made very few designs to allow for efficient and speedy replacement of ships that had learned a valuable tactical lesson in its previous incarnation. Fewer designs for the hybrids to get used to. Maybe the hybrid could redesign the weapon systems with each reincarnation to counter the previous vessels shortcomings. Evolution by trial by fire.
Space dock I had a thought today watching the battle with the colony, the colony had kinetic weapons it being a remenant from the first war, do you think the Cylons designed their new basestar under the assumption that the virus would be so effective that they didn't "plan" to engaged the Colonial fleet at all.
Disappointing that in the series that the Basestars didn't have support ship's that focused on its defense but i suppose it might have affected the storyline too much
Are these blueprints and your information throughout this vid based on any of the BSG: Deadlock series, or only on the Battlestar Galactica Reimagined TV show?
Daniel, would you consider doing any videos on ships from Gundam? Universal Century Gundam, that is (as in, the one era that has much more realistic and grounded designs for its mobile suits and ships).
4:49 lack of variation? More like overly relying on a plan's fruition. Dare I remind anyone that they had access to one of the most terrifying base stats in existence that, despite older, was more equivalent to a Battlestar: the Cerberus class base ship.
I was riveted to this content to where I didn't realize I'd disconnected from my surroundings, until the video ended. Could I be a Cylon? (Frakkin' Good Job!!!)
I'm curious to know what spacedock's thoughts on seaquest dsv would be? is like a space craft, just dealing with the complete opposite environment challenges :P.
The Cylons biggest flaw was their belief in their perfection. They couldn't adapt their fleet because that would mean admitting their plan was hopelessly flawed. They just pressed on and on with their flawed ships because it was easier than admitting they made a mistake. Look what happened when they finally had to stop and look at themselves, the Cylon race went to civil war.
The cylon biggest weakness was galactica's plot armor.
They wiped out 99.99% of humanity in a single strike. If I remember correctly it's stated at one point that Cavil was hoping for 65-80% at best. The 12 colonies are totally and utterly destroyed, Colonial Fleet is gone and mankind is exiled to a backwater planet with no technology. If the Cylons ultimate goal was to prevent mankind from ever threatening them again, they achieved that objective in every way.
"They have a plan"
*
Plan does not include:
- Conventional Artillery
- Heavy Armor
- CIWS
- A Plan B
biggest lie in history?
@Chris George actually 2 BS escaped, just not together, and one was being skippered by a very pissed off Ensign Ro.
They always have a plan and it's just up to us to figure out what it is... We are smarter than they are...
What the hell was the plan if Galactica, Pegasus and the RTF didn't escape? Nuke the colonies into oblivion, round up the survivors, all suffering from extreme radiation poisoning, and try to mate with them? That's a plan?
@Chris George But that wasn't what they did. They had those camps on Caprica.
The base star is the embodiment of a single word: overconfidence. The Cylons were so confident in their virus that they built their fleet around a single strategy. While the plan itself was very sound, the lack of any meaningful backup plan if they virus failed meant that the cylons effectively went all in on a single plan and were left more vulnerable. After all, the Cylon colony was lost to a single aged battlestar, and while the battlestar was lost, so was the Colony.
Edit: wording.
I don't fully agree. Obviously, relying on a single kind of warship for all purposes is a dumb idea, though the colonies obviously did that as well. They seem to have had hundreds of battlestars and nothing else. In both cases it would make more sense to have support vehicles that could do other tasks.
Basically the Cylon Base ships were like modern American carriers that rely entirely on their fighters for everything, which, given their numbers, their ability to regrow, their sentience, and their mastery of hyperspace, seems pretty reasonable.
Battlestars are closer to WW2 Battlecarriers, which weren't a great idea. They weren't really good battleships and they weren't really good carriers.
I think their real shortcoming is just the lack of flexibility in their crews thinking.
@@mahatmarandy5977 But the Colonials did have other vessels. Besides the fact that Battlestars were more versatile than Basestars, the Colonials also had other vessels such as gunstars, cruisers and frigates. Battlestars still had nuclear launch tubes and more modern Battlestars like the Mercury and Valkyrie had conventional missiles, similar to a basestar's. This, coupled with their superior fighters and flak screens meant they were far better than Basestars.
Basestars are similar to modern carriers, true, but modern carriers never go anywhere without escorting vessels. Modern carriers even have their own point defense and surface to air missile systems so they aren't completely useless on their own whereas a Basestar is helpless without its raiders. I'd very much disagree with you that Battlestars aren't good Battleships, the Galactica survives years of combat without a refit and half of her armour plating missing which is pretty impressive and her main armament is clearly enough to wreck a Basestar in short order. That goes without mentioning the Mercury class which is even more heavily armoured and can destroy a Basestar in a single salvo.
The Colonials definitely had a better doctrine.
I think it was the other way around- that the cylons developed the virus because all they had to work with was the basestars, which I think the final five developed, not the significant seven, the seven just inherited the basestars and then cavil erased their memories so they repurposed the basestars as war ships. This is all conjecture but I think it fits well with the story and explains why the basestars are so lacking and why the cylons invested so much into the virus; the virus was their own creation and the basestars were just a place to sleep and they shared it with thousands of raiders so the basestars weren't really under the significant seven's complete control. The significant Seven realized they'd be vulnerable in the basestars in an assault, so they developed the virus as their first wave. They didn't trust the raiders to overpower the Colonials which is just unsettling- the raiders and humanoids were never in complete harmony but they shared the basestars because that's how the final five left them and with their memories being erased they just went along with it
Manik i don't recall ever seeing the other kinds of colonial ships you're talking about. Where were they? The original implied that Battlestars usually had support shipss, but we never saw any
iamareptilianalien from outer space that's very interesting! I like it. And obviously you've put more thought into it than RDM did. :)
A lot of people talk shit about this design, how inappropriate and dumb it is for the opposition it faced.
But in truth, it's perfect. It doesn't need guns nor flak. It was meant to jump in, disable battlestars and then tear them apart with nukes and raiders.
The plan was solid, and it worked in 99%. The one missing variable was Galactica which could not be disabled. And against Galactica, Basestar design was awful. Pegasus, which also could not be disabled, could eat these for breakfast. But Basestar was not MEANT to face operational Battlestars!
Battleships of WW2 could not effectively fight submarines either, but no one expected them to. There were aircraft and destroyers for that role. But submarines were expected, thus Battleships traveled with fleets ready to cover them from such threats. Galactica and Pegasus were not expected, and then underestimated. I guess if more than 1 (and as was later found out, 2) Battlestars survived the Holocaust, Cylons would crank out some support vessels with flak and cannons. But just for Galactica, I guess, they didn't care enough... until it was too late ;)
Yeah but, there were battleships and carriers and destroyers and submarines. Not just battleships after battleships after battleships, and even after everything nothing was done to fix the issue but more battleships.
That's what's wrong with the Cylons.
Sooo, how would one of these things fare in a head to head against a Lucrehulk? th-cam.com/video/9Av-dBRURZo/w-d-xo.html
-- You make some good points, but Battleships in the early 20th century had destroyers, corvettes, and frigates to protect the BB against a submarine. The Cylons have no such escorts, or never developed them when faced with the operational battlestars. Having a single uniform capital ship and no other ships is always gonna have massive flaws.
@@110100111000 I'm guessing 'not well.'
Lack of flak is dump. Extra dump.
Any Cylon: "Hey, instead of this, lets do-"
Cavil: *"BOX THIS HERETIC! They're a danger to us all!"*
Cavil did give off Prophet of Truth vibes, didn’t they. Ironic given his atheism.
@@taudvore259fr, too overconfident, mislead everyone, etc
It's pretty, in a terrifying sort of way.
Gaint nuclear space terminator starfish-nothing more terrifying.
If they were pink and had PATRICK bolted on them with giant iron letters, that would be more terrifying.
Why am I not laughing.
When in doubt, blame Cavil.
Humanoid Cylon Daniel: Why don't we construct a complementary capital ship that's a pure battleship for close range slugfest?.
_And that's how all the threes got boxed…_
Daniel was seven.
You mean seven
And he didn't get boxed, he got corrupted, so even if they wanted to they could never bring him back. And the Cylon's main weakness was allowing a douche like Cavil to be anywhere close to being in charge.
Ya that's confusing. Did the 3s want to build battleships? Is that why the 3s were boxed? The 3s are D'anna, not Daniel
@@CheezyDee they (significant Seven and raiders too really) didn't really know that he was a douche and they didn't put him in charge. He took control by erasing the final five from memory and manipulated everything to seem as though they were harmoniously cooperating with the significant Seven. And then they slowly publicly took control once things weren't going how they planned. The Cavils really fucked everything up. I think the whole series is a result of the Cavils really, they started shit they couldn't finish and things got way out of hand
I'm sure the writers of BSG had to make "flaws" in the new Cylon BaseStars, otherwise it would have been a very short series.
to be honest . the way it was designed as a single purpious because of faith in the plan was genius writing allowing galactica to survive while making it a totally realistic possibility that it would struggle against her while still being able to pull off the flawless surprise attack on the colonies .
DEEP BLUE.... "hold my Tea"... ;)
@Chris George alphastar could do it.
@Chris George alphastar is an ai google created that recognizes patterns and self learns.
It is already the top ai in chess/go/starcraft 2/ probably other games as well.
It cant slaughter humans in chess/go/basically any board game its been taught. In SC2 it can be in the top few hundred on ladder.
@Chris George It just learns patterns so if you know you are playing against it against sc2 you can cheese it by doing things it hasnt seen very much, but since you dont know and you play standard then it has a high chance at beating you.
Board games are a lot simpler to learn so it basically is the de facto best player on the world atm.
Always love the way you say “During the First” and “Second Cylon war.”
I can't remember who it was, but someone intimately connected to Galactica said that the Cylons concentrated all their efforts on a sneak attack because they had learned that they simply could not defeat humanity in a fair fight.
Just for the heck of it, the Base Ships in the original Galactica (And presumably the identical ones we see in some flashbacks in the new Galactica) carried 300 fighters each. A battlestar carried a maximum of 150 fighters. Both these were stated onscreen.
And just because I'm an uber-geek and they're both biotech with fighters, I've always wanted to see one of these Basestars go up against a Wraith hive ship.
I mean that would be cool...but how about Galactica against the Ori or even the (cant spell but worm belly bad guys) but yeah mish mashing sci fi is always a fucking blast. Ever see this gem? If not...your god damn welcome ;) th-cam.com/video/3kJaa1tdUQE/w-d-xo.html Also man SGA had some amazing fucking battles - the sense of dread after the battle of the supergate as a cliffhanger had me so fucking depressed. But when they killed their first one..by killing a wraith at the same time - I fucking cheered!
@@bsgtrekfan88 the Goa'uld would crush the Colonies with a Single Al'kesh
Actually that's even stated in the series by Diana , when she elaborates on why Caprica six is a hero to the Cylons.
Karl Franz , Emperor of Mankind, chosen of Sigmar I don't remember that. Do you remember what episode it was?
BSGT2TREKFAN88 i had not seen it! Thank you!
I love the basestar, such a menacing sight when it jump's in.
What's more scarier is that they carry more nukes than a battlestar.
Props to the designer👏👏
Nothing is better than seeing a Spacedock Battlestar Galactica video in my feed
Good Carrier and missile platform, but not really a “Do everything” ship. Should have been supported by ship-to-ship vessels or had a combat variant.
It's BSG's Venator: A beautifully designed, highly specialized warship that dominates in it's intended purpose; yet is haphazardly pressed into the "do everything role" by it's owners.
I don't see why some base stars couldn't be re-configured for capital ship combat, as the attack on their Colony showed they had functional ballistic tech. Just remove the fighter wing and fit with guns&armour...
@@Negativvv That is definitely more a problem of the Cylons as a people, but not necessarily a design flaw for the ship. The ship design serves its specific purpose.
The Cylons *should* have escorted them with anti-battlestar frigates similar to those they had during the first Cylon War.
I have myself also thought about that, though. Don't even need to remove any hanger space or missile silos. The ship has literal kilometers of unused surface area.
@@Negativvv I don't really think the rotating design of the ship would make for a good gun boat. Unless they could stop the traverse when getting the guns ready.
Would love to see a full breakdown of the Goa’uld Ha’tak-class. Or frankly any other Stargate ships that hadn’t already been covered
He;s already done this one o the Gou'uld: th-cam.com/video/yw1iwq0HzDg/w-d-xo.html
And there's a couple on the Daedalus-Class: th-cam.com/video/vHGavohIQ6I/w-d-xo.html, th-cam.com/video/hurJGIIRzM8/w-d-xo.html
Also a Versus episode of a Cylon Basestar vs Ha'tak
@Chris George, if Ha'tak fires balls of plasma/energy, ONE hit could paralyse Battlestar. One hit in central column. They would need several dozens of battlestars to drain shields of a standard Ha'tak class vessel, wouldn't they? And I'm not talking about motherships of Anubis and Apophis. They're just superweapons.
Huhu
I think it would be cool to see a video on how the Cylon Basestar design has evolved from its first incarnation in the First Cylon War (called Hades-class in some sources), to this model, with the Argos-class, the Cratus-class, the Blood & Chrome variant, and the Guardian type in between them.
BG is by far one of the top5 sci-fi shows or story out there. We need more shows of it
If you like BSG, I'd highly suggest watching The Expanse. I've just binge watched it and it is amazing, it kinda has Mass Effect vibes in the later seasons.
@@MRB2580 I just tried on netflix not there
@@hankmessaros1835 It's only on Amazon Prime afaik.
It's BSG's Venator: A beautifully designed, highly specialized warship that dominates in it's intended purpose; yet is haphazardly pressed into the "do everything role" by it's owners.
Except the Venator had the advantage of being used by the protagonists, which means it still got to win a lot despite being thrown outside of its comfort zone. Basestars weren't afforded many freebie wins.
@@nickolas474 Very true. And the Venator was also heavily armored, at least to the point of being able to withstand simultaneous bombardment to her ventral hull by the main guns of 6 munificent(?)-class frigates.
@@soldovah9649 I probably wouldn't go around listing that in the specs though, must've been a nightmare to repair afterwards haha
I forget, was that ship scrapped after the ryloth campaign? I assume not because I think anakin's flagship name remains "resolute" afterwards, but my memory of these details is really fuzzy
Just finished a rewatch of the entire series! I love the worldbuilding with the physics and technology that has its unique touch of the RDM BSG universe!
I just adore the more Industrial mechanized science fiction. none of that flashey star trek energy beams everywhere stuff. unfortunately there's only like a tiny handful of them out there to enjoy.
The Cyclon basestars of the second Cylon war also possess no obvious external sublight drives, unlike the Colonial ships. It's been unanswered thus far in canon as to how the Cylon basestars even move, but the wiki has postulated that they generate their own gravity to "propel" themselves at sublight speeds. IIRC, they are also fully capable of atmospheric flight as well (something a Battlestar can't do due to its sheer mass).
Love the BSG content, working on a little prototype/demo game for BSG, absolute favourite series. Speaking of games though, recently started playing Battletech, and the player ship in that, the Argo, has an awesome combination of centrifugal and thrust gravity, maybe even video worthy, although it isn't a dedicated warship.
Im desperate for Spacedock to cover Battletech. Not the videogame, the universe. I wanna see a video on the Atlas, and one on the Union Dropship at least.
@@boatcaptain6288 if you haven't already seen it, check out Tex Talks Battletech. He covers mechs and history (also it's his own material not just reading sarna.net line by line) here he talks about the Tripitz Affair and the extinction of warships: th-cam.com/video/DRWUkq_R6Os/w-d-xo.html
Also the Atlas: th-cam.com/video/sSFGE0mHg0I/w-d-xo.html
What's the game you're working on?
@@BNRmatt Just a little project to occupy some spare time and to scratch my itch of wanting to control Battlestars, among other ships. It's a slow burner but here's the latest twitter.com/Charlie_G_G/status/1224386040317825031?s=20
Awesome job, I love when you cover BSG stuff.
Thanks!
Quite a rare sight to browse in the comment section and actually see good communication and manners, yes they're some spots were it doesn't go well, but hey you're human after all... the important thing is to not reach those extremes and don't get polarized by something that can be forgotten the next day.
We need more BSG proving ground videos for the new ships.
P.s. love all the videos on this channel!!
Always loved the reimagined Cylon designs.
I so want a version of Deadlock involving Second War period ships.
It would be very easy: rush Battlestars, spam flak, win
It happened with the Modern Ships Pack. Though the Colonials got the auto win button with the addition of the Mercury.
@@Mobius_118 I Mean is a Mercury...
Watching the Galactica and Pegasus pummel these ships, always brought a smile to my face.
That's some of the most amazing footage of BSG I've seen.
Honestly the colonials would have beat the Cylons in a head to head fleet match no doubt
The Galactica alone outmatched every basestar it came across, just think of what all 120 Battlestars could have done in a conventional war
You are absolutely right, that was the reason they went through the trouble of creating the virus. They knew they had no chance against the colononiels in a conventional war
Head to head would've never been possible since the cylons never would've created a similar sized fleet of their own. That's part of why their basestars have such an insane amount of strike craft. So I think the basestars would've not had any war experience. I don't think many of the Colonial basestars had even seen battle action until the fall, I mean, what enemy would they have been fighting like, the cylons had disappeared forty years prior. Essentially both fleets were built on the fantastical whim that their civilizations might go to war. In the end the Colonial fighters were all noobs when it came to battle and the cylon raiders were just programmed. Too bad the cylons outsmarted the Colonials by hacking the defense mainframe otherwise this could've been an adult rated space blood fest of interplanetary proportions
WatchBoy52 as things were standing you are of course right
But because they found a virus solution plus infiltration they did not need other tactics
If that would not have worked, i am pretty sure they would not have launched the attack and would have retrofitted their fleets first
@@Cross_111 what would they have retrofitted their ships with? I think the biological models were perfectly content with sending a hundred thousand raiders out as they themselves remain comfortably in the basestars doing nothing but watching
nah. attrition would have done the colonials in.
BSG....the best docu-drama ever!
ok ok I know that as the show went on the Basestar's got...shall we say "buffed" but as a seasoned Sci-Fi nerd that had no idea the show was even made (somehow it was not on my radar) I remember going in cold when I watched the miniseries and man...you dont know what they are, you dont know their firepower hell you dont even know what class - if any - it even IS.....but god damn is it intimidating as F)#$! I mean just the site of one of these things in the show...last time I felt that way was maybe DS9 with the dominion battleship or even TNG with the Borg...it also helps its a much different approach to ship design compared to most sci-fi at the time (most WELL KNOWN SICI ok guys?) and I will never forget the effect it had on me for this show ;) Great video as always chap! Cape Cod, MA!
I used to criticize the Base Star design for not having any sort of point defense. But in retrospect, it is actually perfectly in line with the history of the Cylons themselves being (mostly) mechanical. They didn't have those systems as they didnt need them. Such defense is only required by the linear mortal.
The cylon basestars really needed a support craft, like a frigate or battleship that could take multiple shots from a battlestar's artillery, so that they could defend the more lightly armoured basestars and allow them to launch Raiders and missiles without coming under fire.
Well spoken and I appreciate your comments. In-depth critical analyzed & perception from a certain point of view! Intriguing, fascinating and to the point...
Another awesome video as usual SD. Love the re-visits to ships previously covered. There were a few shots in the vid that I don’t recognise from the show tho. Are they from extended material like ‘Blood and Chrome’?
This was a great break down. I miss this show. Haven't thought about this for awhile but the Cylons as a species still exist in the Colonies. Till the modern era more then likely. Or am I forgetting something
The Cylons just were short of luck, had they waited just a bit more, before attacking their plan would have worked perfectly
I believe that was actually hinted at. "Whatever it is, it's early..." - Brother Cavil (The Plan).
@@dotmatrix7383 I really need to watch BSG fully I've been into it since childhood but never actually watched the whole show and I feel bad for it.
@@dotmatrix7383 who did he say that to? I can't recall any scene where he says that
@@casperhelix It was the bar scene where he was teasing Ellen.
I think one way to improve these would be to have a standard rail canon battery at the tips of the basestars triangular structures and the top of them, adding a small backup/close range alternative to the guided missiles. Either that or having much smaller and sparsely spread out cluster missile launchers meant to dissuade vipers or other colonial vessels of that size from getting too close, it can also deal with “clusters” of vipers if close enough, but would also have a limited tracking system on board to pursue fighters and even hit them in odd occasions if spread out.
They could have had some of their deadlock predecessors in the fleet as a close range attack vessel but the time between the game and the show and whatnot, but yeah that would have been better than any strategy they fielded. But for what they did have in mind for the basestar initially it played its part, but then later could’ve dealt with an upgrade.
Spacedock is the best Sci-Fi ship channel. So say we all!
I'm a simple man. I see Battlestar content, you bet your ass I click.
While calling a toaster a Cylon will result in your toast being overdone, calling a Cylon a toaster will result in you being *over* and *done*
I’ll be interested to see a short on the concept of the flack field in space as it’s not something I’ve seen many other science fiction
Last time I clicked this fast caprica was still around.
``All of this has happened before, and will happen before`` - a quote worthy of a remake. :)
Can you do a best 5 Utility ships in SCI FI? I hope to see a space: 1999 Eagle on the list...
Just an FYI Daniel, all 3 video links that you have attached at the end of this video say they are blocked/removed. But every video is still available on your channel just fine. Especially the officers club/patreon link.
Is it just for the Rule of Cool that the Basestars aren't _already_ in the laterally-aligned configuration? What advantages does the default configuration offer over the atmospheric configuration?
Likely better for missile coverage and optimal fighter launch position. The shorter arms don't have as many hardpoints or launch bays.
There's also no heavy artillery for the ship to be in a triangular shape that can bring most cannons to bear like a Star Destroyer
Yesss MORE BSG please .. these videos are godly
But when are you going to do a breakdown of the NTE-3120 NSEA-Protector from Galaxy Quest? I love that ship (and movie) and would love to see a breakdown of it.
"How do i shoot gun?" - Cylons, probably.
Remember how in BSG Deadlock, they would have multiple variations of the Basestar, including one that not only has the rapid fire and reload missiles, but quick firing artillery cannons to combat even the toughest battlestars?
I wouldn't say it dwarfs the Mercury Battlestars since it's only about 100 meters longer. That, and the Pegasus smacked one with a flight pod and it exploded, so there's definitely a difference in terms of overall mass.
This video convinced me to watch the show, coming back to it after finishing the finale a few hour ago
In the first Cylon War the Battlestars were designed to have low tech systems but 40 years later there are sophisticated computers on the advanced newer Battlestars but I do love the Pegasus R.I.P.
To be honest its quite a beautiful design.
I wonder whatever happened to the other basestars and there crews after the destruction of the cylon colony, we see that there are many more basestars during the attack of the colonies than we see destroyed in the show it’s even mentioned before the attack on the cylon colony that two basestars are seen leaving the colony which shows the galactic the only safe point to jump into the colony. I wonder what they would have done after discovering that the colony was destroyed.
Why the Cylons didn't have auxiliary designs from the first Cylon war lying around in reserve is beyond me. Even just a single Revenant or Arachne could've helped the Cylons chew up the Galactica and would've given them a contingency plan that wouldn't have even cost the Cylons much to keep around.
Excellent rundown! Thank you.
People call the basestar "flawed" but it worked 99.99% of the time
From 50 billion humans, only 50k survived
Always turn off your WiFi
Or get Dashlane/Nord VPN to protect your online security.
Or just don't install the recommended updates.
Very well done brother.
Can you do the Narn Heavy cruiser sometime? Or did you do it already and I missed it?
Where is the footage of the Cylon headquarters-ish base at 0:24 from? Is that in one of the games? I don't remember it from the show.
Reminds me of the good old days of BSGO, huge fleet battles with a Battle Star and Base Star, then all the fighters, escorts, and capital ships
WMXW BGO was a lagging pay2win fest xD
Can you do the adamant frigate or arachne cruiser from battlestar galactica deadlock please?
Stephen Bond oh frak yes! The adamant is one of my favorite ship classes
Sheesh stellar breakdown as usual!
What I love about the baseship design is that they all look the exactly the same, stressing it's machine design, unlike the colonial ships where in the fleet each is unique and even battlestars have many types and many unique modification per ship. And in the last season the rebel baseship was made damage in such a way that it was instantly recognizable by the viewer. Instead of getting carried away and designing many different ships for the cylons, the creators went with the mass produced computer generated design, yet were able to single one of the ships out when it was necessary.
Very good video, as always.
Been looking forward to this one
Really looking forward to the new series , so say we all.
cool birthday gift thanks!
Excellent breakdown.
Was it possible for Colonials to develop a tactic of boarding those? Can they be used by humans at all?
If I remember right, the last episodes had shown humans operating a basestar, executing the command the humanoid cylons do. But the deeper interface with the basestar would make the operator a little posthuman.
It's run by a biological cylon model that has its brain integrated into the ship via a resurecection goo pool I think the cylons can control a lot of functions but ultimately the ship has a mind of its own via that goo pool model
The basestars are sentient, having a living humanoid Cylon called a hybrid permanently installed and serving as a literal brain for the ship.
She can refuse orders, as we've seen a few times before, though her main data connection can be unplugged. This allows for her control to be circumvented.
@@soldovah9649 well, it's vivisection time then...
@@soldovah9649 wait, so Basestars are weak to chemical and biological weapons? So basically coat railgun slugs in some [Redacted] matter and wait for it to take an effect? Or better yet irradiate the fuckers and wait for the ship to become flying cancer? I've thought it worked only against Wraith, Tyranids and so on.
I like this design of base star. It makes sense in the context of the initial plan and shows the machine like thinking of the cylons.
Once they'd nuked the twelve colonies they'd essentially won the war. The few survivors that were still alive in the remnant fleet, to give them a good name from the cylon point of view; could have been wiped out at any point with a mass fleet attack of about 50 base stars and all their fighters. It would have been a slaughter.
The machines made very few designs to allow for efficient and speedy replacement of ships that had learned a valuable tactical lesson in its previous incarnation. Fewer designs for the hybrids to get used to. Maybe the hybrid could redesign the weapon systems with each reincarnation to counter the previous vessels shortcomings.
Evolution by trial by fire.
Very well done.
I am surprised you did not release this already.
YES!! Always love me some BSG
Would you consider doing an episode on the U.F.O. interceptor and the Space 1999 hawk?
Wow! That's a big space ship! Is it bigger than the UESC Marathon? Only one way to find out @Spacedock!
Do a video on the First Cylon War clam-ship (aka: their very first "Basestar" as seen in Razor, Blood and Chrome and Deadlock!)
Space dock I had a thought today watching the battle with the colony, the colony had kinetic weapons it being a remenant from the first war, do you think the Cylons designed their new basestar under the assumption that the virus would be so effective that they didn't "plan" to engaged the Colonial fleet at all.
Disappointing that in the series that the Basestars didn't have support ship's that focused on its defense but i suppose it might have affected the storyline too much
Pretty please do *Talyn* from Farscape.
Hey something news about the sojourn?
Yes wheres the sojourn
Are these blueprints and your information throughout this vid based on any of the BSG: Deadlock series, or only on the Battlestar Galactica Reimagined TV show?
Daniel, would you consider doing any videos on ships from Gundam? Universal Century Gundam, that is (as in, the one era that has much more realistic and grounded designs for its mobile suits and ships).
Damm i love this videos about Battlestar Galactica
AWESOME VIDEO!!
Mark Broughton you couldn’t have watched it yet 😂
I just watched it :-)
Nice. Galactica needs more love.
Such beautiful ominous ships.
Good summary 0:38
hi Daniel what about the ship liberator for blakes seven . still a very good looking ship now
4:49 lack of variation? More like overly relying on a plan's fruition. Dare I remind anyone that they had access to one of the most terrifying base stats in existence that, despite older, was more equivalent to a Battlestar: the Cerberus class base ship.
Thank you
I was riveted to this content to where I didn't realize I'd disconnected from my surroundings, until the video ended.
Could I be a Cylon?
(Frakkin' Good Job!!!)
So which Basestar is better?
Original Pinwheels, or the 6 point stars?
I'm curious to know what spacedock's thoughts on seaquest dsv would be? is like a space craft, just dealing with the complete opposite environment challenges :P.
Pretty sweet!