Best damn deadpan line in the series. Damn, I'm glad Galactica finished the way she did. Serving as a tourist attraction, complete w/food court & the Colonial version of a Starbucks (HAH!...🤣) on all accessable decks just seems beneath her dignity.
Can we just take a moment to acknowledge the mad skills of the Captain of the Colonial One ship who, on multiple occasions, actually lands that monster inside the Galactica MANUALLY!?!?!?!?!?!
I know right?? Upon rewatching the miniseries I was like "wait whaaaaaaa-" when that thing was just smoothly sliding into the landing pod RIGHT after Boomer was yelling about how hard it was to land on it with her Raptor.
@@Urzaknight Nah, but he left a lasting impression. That moment in the mini series when they're finding other ships and he changes callsign from Colonial Heavy 798 to Colonial One and has a little smile is an awesome moment.
@@rsrt6910 He probably "loosed" it at the same English grammar class that taught kids the wrong definition between "loose" (an object not secured down) and "lose" (having something miss-placed or taken from you). Or is this going to turn into an English contest instead of talking nerdy sci-fi facts and such?
A quick note at 2:33, the museum scene: It is literally in honor of the 1978 BSG. It has 'Cylon War era' Raider, a 'Colonial Viper' (aka the MK. I Viper) a Landram (which was used prominently in the old show), a miniature of the old model Cylon Basestar, an actual Cylon Centurion costume from 78 portrayed in a display, and I'm pretty sure a shuttle from the 78 show as well.
@@ancaplanaoriginal5303 You can also see an old '78-style shuttle being used by the colonial representative at the Armistice Station, in the mini-series.
its because in cannon, those ships were used in the first cylon war, you see the old basestars and raiders used in both razor, and deadlock, a brilliant bsg game
Man at first I was pissed of all the re imaging but I love how they acknowledged all the old school stuff. And now I love the new designs more ja. Even bought the models
I think the use of Raptors for taxiing people was done because shuttles lack FTL-Capability and in the event of a Cylon-Attack, they would be unable to do an emergency jump. Landing all the shuttles would take way too long, so the use of Raptors was basically the only way to create a safe exchange of people and most likely also (at least some) goods between the ships of the fleet.
I imagine it's also because those shuttles are quite high-capacity (they appear to have multiple decks, at least) and launching and retrieving them just for short flights of a few people would be complete overkill (not to mention a waste of limited fuel).
And also, the internal sets/external CGI models were already built. A '70s-style shuttle wasn't shown until President Roslyn landed on Kobol (and then only as a grounded CGI model behind her.) Edit: I stand corrected. A few comments below this; someone points out that a '70s shuttle is also on display in the Galactica Museum.)
the big shuttles probably had FTL as well, we see a TOS style version making the trip out to Armistice station in the miniseries opening, and that trip would certainly have required an FTL jump to make in a reasonable time given how distant that station was. and we have the newer style show seeming to operate independently as part of the fleet in several cases. (sometimes appearing in fleet shots flying in formation with much larger vessels) i suspect that the in universe reason to use Raptor's primarily was probably because not all the ships had hangers big enough to handle such craft, or docking systems able to dock them externally, but most ships did have hangers (or cargo loading bays) that could easily fit a raptor. though i suspect that those types of shuttles probably did see use helping to ferry civilians around the fleet between the bigger ships.
"Call the Ball" is another modern day Naval Carrier term that refers to the Source light (also known as the Meatball because of its orange color) on the Optical Landing Systems (OLS) installed on most modern day aircraft carriers. The "Meatball" depicts the landing aircraft's relative position to the glideslope. The term "Call the Ball" is given to the pilot by the LSO, and the pilots reply "I have the Ball" lets the LSO know that the pilot sees the Meatball and is able to use it to properly guide the aircraft in.
I served in the Navy back in the 80's, and I complement the creators of the re-imagined series at how authentically military they made the series, along with the story and everything else. and I also agree with you about the pilots having to slam the skids down on the flight deck when performing combat landings.
Makes sense that the Flight Control Officer is a high ranking position, after all one of a Battlestar's biggest assets is being able to launch and recover its fighters in an efficient manner.
I don't think the limited supply of Vipers was ever really a critical issue, the Galactica always had far more fighters available than they had qualified pilots to fly them. Risking structural damage to the fighter in a rough combat landing, in order to guarantee safe return of the pilot was probably a trade-off they had zero qualms over.
except that they didn't have the ability to build new fighters if they did trash one, outside of the period that they had Pegasus for that (though why they put a fighter-factory on a warship is beyond me).
I feel like it was less that the Pegasus had a literal Viper factory production line on board, and more that they had the capability to fabricate replacement parts for their fighters while on deployment. Being able to build replacement parts adhoc gives them the ability to build entire new Vipers. As for the Galactica, they had either 40 or 80 Mk. II Vipers and only ~20 something qualified pilots following the Fall of the Colonies. The Vipers were a whole lot more expendable than the pilots, even if they were never able to replace them.
Yeah, it makes sense. We even see the vipers touch down several times and bounce before sticking during combat landing footage. ALSOthank you for yer service.
Personally if its really hectic and my fighter has magnetic landing leags, if nessisary I'd land on the ceiling. Yes i'd be uspidown (if the landing deck has gravity) but i'd be out of the way and secure for the ships to make its escape jump.
@@firstname9954 the problem with yer ping-pong reference, the only thing slowing it down is air resistance and on the bounce also gravity... One if not both are missing here.
@@firstname9954the only thing to impact here are photons of light, not really known for slowing down meteors much less vipers, and the metal of the battle star itself. 0G just takes away acceleration into the deck, assuming its off or it "must" be accounted for as impacts at enough speed make things go crack, we're both heavily in agreement here at least. the moment that viper hits the deck all that electrical magnetic heat exchange all day long but with the ping pong ball along with a lot of your otherwise rather accurate heat exchange jargon, Air is the substance you keep pointing at without naming it directly, this simply isn't a factor at all here, things in a vacuum facing a star don't freeze, they burn air radiates heat faster than infrared re-emission, the latter being a very poor method of removing heat or bothering with resisting... explicitly this is not orbital re-entry into an atmosphere in any sense or shape of the matter this is throwing a pebble at a very empty tin can if the ping pong ball has the same mass as the pebble the they still get there at the same time under the same amount of force. but there's literally nothing between the Viper and the flight deck to even hint at slowing it down if not pull it in faster this includes your electromagnet attraction, except maybe another obstructing viper and/or your ships own thrusters which "could" classify as literally the only plasma or gas in this situation, and its too busy being yoinked apart by that (gasp) vacuum to be accountable for nothing more than vector thrust. also literally the only thing slowing you down from former speed, magnetic attraction, and/or gravity now.... but not because its flowing into a medium of its kin, more gas... quite the opposite actually.
I always considered the haphazard combat landings to be the result of two things, actually. First, it's a matter of recovering all the fighters as quickly as possible and not leaving anyone behind. Second, it has to do with the fact the Galactica's flight pods retract prior to a jump. Vipers landing would be moving perpendicular to the retracting deck, making it riskier to try and be land normally since over-correcting accidentally would likely end with a Viper being bounced around a bit because it hits the wall because it's moving independantly of Galactica. Either of those ends up with a Viper being lost or effecitvely disabled (even if only for the time it takes to confirm it's still spaceworthy), something the Fleet can ill afford for most the series.
Randall Brink yeah the rule of cool wins the day here. Though one thing I don't get is why the Vipers have Skids exclusively, surely it would make sense to have wheels that they can use for ease of maneuvering when in the maintenance bays rather than being dragged along on skids
and how about an inverted magnetic field in the deck or like pulling/shoving "rails" ?! Interacting with the magnetic skids/clamps it would make them Vipers hovering and easy to move around, wouldnt it?!
On the Pegasus flight pods, what if there are two sets of 'below-deck' hangers for each flight pod, one each oriented to the ventral and dorsal. On the Pegasus model shown, the Viper tubes appear to be in both orientations (but not the Raptor one). Then you just need to re-orient the crew when they move from the 'upside down' hangers into the rest of the ship. No need for the complex lift system, least until you need to move craft from one hanger to the other. And on the Raptors being used as taxis instead of the bigger shuttles, the Raptors are probably more cost (limited fuel in the fleet) effective for small loads of passengers and cargo. And for big loads, I always thought the larger ships could just dock with one another for transfers.
The Mercury class Battlestar's launch tubes are all oriented the same way. If you look closely, you will notice that the triangular shapes in between the flight pods are filled in, as it is within that space that you have the operations area of each flight pod (you'll notice that during a Viper launch, the pilot gives a visual thumbs up to the person operating this space.) Regarding the lifts, I think that perhaps the Ventral lifts simply are lowered down, giving the Vipers a platform that is then raised into the hangar, or they just relocate to the Dorsal section for reentry.
The two hanger decks could use one set of artificial gravity generators between them so that gravity 'pulls' from the same point, but from both 'top' and 'bottom' from the pilots perspective. The only question I have is, the line of Viper tubes aren't over/under each other, but side by side. Are the magnetic rails angled so that the ships exit from the same line from either the upper or lower decks? Would LOVE to see blue prints for this.
@@kirkbyers6882 Firstly, these tubes do not utilize a magnetic rail for the Viper itself, but rather a catapult (much like a RL carrier), which latches onto the front skid of the Viper. Then a counterweight runs along rails in the opposite direction flinging the Viper out. Secondly, as I said before, the Triangular shapes pointing down are not tubes, as that area contains the operations office for each tube, wherein the tubes are operated by Flight Deck NCOs.
One thing they could have done is that the elevator on the bottom could rotate 180 degree when the raptor is magnetically lock so when the it bring the craft up into the hanger it not upside down
Also, I liked the layout of the flight pods in the reboot. They just made more sense, especially considering the possibility of a botched landing or a fouled deck...just add throttle and keep going. The original Galactica wasn't designed to allow that as only the rear portion was for landing with the middle portion being the service hangar, and the forward section occupied by 4 forward angled launch tubes....all on the same level.
For the Pegasus lower landing pods, I always assumed the artificial gravity was reversed on the flight deck (no need to flip the lifts) with 0G corridors leading to the ship proper to avoid any sudden gravity reversal.
It's artificial...upside down is right-side up in those landing bays. EVERYTHING is upside down. Storage, maintenance, everything. Even the launch tubes are inverted.
Agreed. My assumption was that “down” was some kind of device, so arranging that device as a flat plane in the middle of the two flight decks would create two different areas oriented 180 degrees from one another, so the real challenge is when moving from the inverted area to the rest of the ship (which makes me greatly appreciate the canonical solution to artificial gravity in The Expanse).
Related to BSG again I'd like to see more information on the Point Defense and artillery pieces of both Galactica and Pegasus. The show seems to bounce back and forth between semi- and fully automatic models during engagements, and the main guns are so rarely used. Also the missile tubes.
During the Pegasus last battle you hear Lee say “Set main battery to auto fire cycle B” as they abandon ship. So the Pegasus has the capability to have her guns be fired with the very minimum crew present. And the Pegasus has so many point defense guns, no way you could have a crew to man them. They are likely modeled after the Phalanx and Goalkeeper point defense guns in use today. Crews are only needed to reload them at some point and maintenance. The Galactica’s main battery turrets have people actually in them, you can see them in the windows during close ups. And during the resurrection ship fight, Adama says “Have batteries Alfa through Echo switch to salvo fire.” So Galactica guns are manually controlled and fired. They are likely slaved to a central fire control battery, you see that in the Nebula battle, but that’s it.
The battlestar's main battery was also its flak battery, so most of the time the guns were used to fire flak to protect it from raiders and fissile missiles. The exception was the 'Bow Battery' on the Pegasus/Mercury class, which was 4 fixed dual forward firing guns even heavier than the main battery, and used solely for firing at enemy base ships. This is why there is the common misconception Pegasus could have outfought those four base stars in the episode she was destroyed, given how she easily dispatched the first one. That was purely by surprise, hence Pegasus could use her 8 bow battery guns and her 60 main battery guns entirely against the base ship - after that she needed to use the 60 main battery guns for flak as she was under VERY heavy raider and fissile missile attack, so she only had those 8 bow guns for offence. In the other large scale engagement between battlestars and base stars (the resurrection ship battle), the base stars fighters were drawn away, while the battlestars fighters were concentrated on the resurrection ship - meaning both battlestars could ease off their flak and devote more of their main battery to what they call 'salvo fire' - ie firing at the base ship itself. Galactica is credited with 48 main battery guns (anti-ship OR flak), and 1028 point defence guns. Pegasus is credited with 8 bow battery guns (anti-ship), 60 main battery guns (anti-ship OR flak), and 'numerous' point defence guns (almost certainly more than the Galactica, probably over 1500). All the guns (bow battery, main battery, point defence) on both Galactica and Pegasus, are mounted in pairs. Galactica's main battery turrets are individually manned, her point defence turrets are manned remotely. All Pegasus's guns are remotely manned.
Flipping the fighters would be as easy as using a different kind of door. Instead of an elevator type door, just use one on a hinge. The "floor" you're sitting on swings in and ends up on the back side of the landing pod "floor".
For the ventral hangars... Instead of a 'Lift' per-se, you have the taxi deck 'flip' to be reoriented to the relative artificial gravity of the rest of the ship. The deck would lock into place with pistons or some such, and when a Viper or a Raptor lands on it, the deck would rotate to flip the ship 'upright' into a chamber large enough to accommodate the ship. An outer door seals the chamber now below the fighter, and the whole thing is brought up on tracks like a heavy duty elevator, and pops up on the deck between [if you had more space between those two hangars]
Hotdog getting ready to launch as Galactica is falling through the atmosphere of new caprica and going "this will be different" is my favorite 10 seconds of the show
In modern carriers the "ball" is a reference object near the back of the ship with lights or flags that tells the pilot if they are coming in high or low and whether they are coming in too fast or too slow. It isn't the landing strip on the deck itself. I suspect Galactica has a similar mechanism on the back of the landing pods.
My take on the "combat landings" is that it was about more than just getting as many fighters on the deck as quickly as possible. In peacetime, it's easy to teakettle to the deck of a ship that is maintaining constant speed and bearing, but in combat the Galactica herself would be maneuvering, sometimes violently. Trying to RCS yourself gently onto a pad would risk you touching down hard during one of those maneuvers. Better to come down quickly and get magnetized to the deck ASAP.
I've taken measurements of the 3D model of the Pegasus. She has TWO hangar decks for viper maintenance. In all likelihood they are oriented with the landing bay that they service. As such, the connection between decks is somewhere between the two and not between the hangar and landing pods. It also means that the launch tubes are all angled down very slightly from their respective deck, given that all of the tubes meet on a single line on the exterior of the ship.
All I know is that a lot of Navy and Air Force vets will be happy to know that they are using flight commands in this show and it also can be a prelude to the future when we reach that level of tech. But we would still use military style commands in order to make sure that the human forces can get home.
I don't think the mercury class's lower landing bay has lifts. I think the pad just rotates with the viper or raptor on it flipping it up right and bringing it in to the interior with one motion. Further more I think the craft get flipped into a air lock and while flight deck personnel are clearing it off the pad another viper is already landing on the back side of the pad so as soon as the airlock is cleared and decompressed the pad flips again.
This is my kinda video. Love a bit of deep lore when it comes to things that go unnoticed in sci-fi like radio chatter and docking procedures. I'm gonna look for more on your channel now!
I think the bad combat landings on Galactica make perfect sense. Because the landings are executed by people who my be extraordinary competent but are also in fear for there lives. Even the best pilots I know(I know some pretty good ones) just have bad landings some times. That's without fear for your life with a timer attached. "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing" -Everone in aviation at least once
I love stuff like this. Please do more of it. Especially related to combat and how the weapons and combat systems work on a Battle Star. BSG is my favorite sci fi series. It’s based enough in reality to really draw you in. I love BSG enough that i bought a EagleMoss BSG Galactica diecast. It’s a shame that we can not get a First Cylon war mini series.
Thank You!! Just binged my 10-year-rewatch & the ep w/ Kat on Stims: "YOU HAVE THE BALL!" was driving me crazy: *What BALL?!!* 😂 Wanted to mention that i noticed the vipers ALWAYS came in, in the Exact same pattern EVERY TIME they had to jump away: 2, then 1 off to the side. Probably saved a ton on production costs, which: WHEW! Thx again! ✌💗
There are two canon ways to land a Viper in on a Battlestar. The Lee Adama way: glide in nice and smooth and bitch that it was, once again, hands on. The Starbuck way: fast, messy, and usually missing vital parts of the Viper! 😆 The lower flight decks on the Pegasus would be prime places for additional troop/cargo transport ships to be parked/launched from, or for ships the size of Colonial Heavy 798-- I mean Colonial One to land while keeping the upper decks ready for combat operations.
@Spacedock A tactic used by some ships I have seen is where there is no mechanism that flips the ship just a entry to a elevator that is the right way up with lights designating to the upside down pilots to use RCS thrusters to rotate their ship to the correct orientation, then drifts in the elevator area to be lifted up into the hangar. The runway is kept upside down to allow more space so other craft can land. In Battlestar Galactica the ships have runways not only for landing but there is a tactic used that I believe that Pegasus can make use of. That being carrying a large taskforce of Vipers, Raptors, and/or bombers maglocked on the runways while all the launch tubes are filled. Once the ship jumps in the tubes launch all the vipers in there while the maglocked ships take off slowly from the runways. This tactic will allow a Battlestar to carry 2 to almost 5 times their normal payload of vipers.
On the Pegasus for the double deck I think the lateral lights are used to check the right approach orientation.. As in exemple pilote have to check if the two green lights are always on their right!
Daniel, I've also noticed when the flight chief says, "Trejector is green..." I cannot remember where, but it seemed to happen just before a landing or after launch, or during an in-flight situation.
Hello there. Thank you for the information on the Galactica and Pegasus. I am a original fan of BSG, from the seventy,s up to the 2000s. , 23/Jan/2021. My wife and I are still watching both sets of the Galactica DVDs along with the Caprica dvds. Stay safe. “ So say we all”. : Sara and John in the UK.
@@frankpinmtl That might be them. They only appeared in a few episodes; not much is known about them. I remember an issue of Starlog Magazine having a pull-out section of the Eagle Transporter schematics in one of their issues. Wish I still had that one; it was a great reference.
Not sure if someone else has said it as well, but there are actually three Raptor launch tubes on each flightpod according to the 3D model of the Pegasus, with each one at the beginning of a group of launch tubes, making a grand total of 6 Raptor launch tubes. And seeing as the Raptor is much wider than a Viper, I think these Raptor launch tubes can also launch Vipers safely from them as well.
My question about the upside-down hangar bay on the Pegasus is: Where do the spacecraft elevators go? There needs to be a space "under" the hangar bay for the spacecraft elevators to "descend" into.
@Spacedock. I don’t think the Pegasus rotated the vipers/raptors that land on the ‘under flight deck’ as when you showed the raptor launch tubes ( 4:13 ) it had viper tubes that looked to be upside down so the Pegasus may have 4 hander decks in total just 2 by 2 at the floor with grave generators and a way for the crew to orientate themselves to whatever is up at that time.
Hi Spacedock Team :) Great Video as always! But theres something I'd like to add concerning the Pegasus flight pods. I don't think the ventral inverted flight decks feature a rotating elevator system but a standard elevator and above the ventral flight deck an also inverted 2nd hangar deck. My theory is that from top to bottom relative to pegasus standard gravity the internal decks of the flight pods are: - flight deck - hangar deck - launch tube deck (ZERO G, access from both sides) - inverted hangar deck - inverted flight deck - This theory came to my mind while looking at the flight pods broad side. the triangular shaped cross section of the viper tubes can be seen. but unlike galacticas launch tubes they are not oriented the same way (pointy upwards) but instead they are alternatingly inverted. so i think pegasus has a top and a lower (inverted G) hangar deck and the vipers are being loaded into the launch tubes via elevator into a zero G launch tube level from top and bottom. i believe any other way it would be nonsense to build the launch tubes inverted on a single standard G hangar deck. anyone would agree on that i guess. as for the inverted area Crews, they would simply pass through a zero g passage way in the launch tube level and just turn upside down before climbing "up" into their hangar deck. What do you think? Let me know and thx for the great videos!! :)
Just to jump in on the whole Raptors are always used as shuttles. I think it's a simple matter of fridge brilliance. Raptors have FTL. We don't know if the shuttles do. You wouldn't want officers or VIPs caught in a non-FTL capable craft if the fleet got jumped by the Cylons during a ship to ship transfer. QED...use Raptors. In reality...they build a whole Raptor set and it wouldn't make sense to build another set just for the ten second scenes of flying ship to ship. Great video as always. Can't wait for more!
Why didn't they convert the starboard hanger from museum to landing bay, or was the whole pod including the lower sections and control equipment removed of opened?
You would think that, but that isn't the case. Galactica's starboard flight pod was a museum for the beginning of the series, then later it became housing space for civilians of other ship crews that lost their ships. You can even see in the graphics of the show that the starboard pod has geodesic glass over the ends. This is also the area where the bar was setup for the third season, then one where Starbuck starts playing the piano to the tune of All Along the Watch Tower from "memory". That whole area was a sort of shanty town.
From what I remember seeing, the Pegasus' landing bays are mirrored dorsal and ventral so the lower deck is always upside down relative to the ship itself. This includes the working deck and hanger/launch tube spaces.
For anybody who has the game Space Engineers, there's a Battlestar on the Steam Workshop that perfectly explains how all of this works as you can physically traverse the ship. It really lets you get an idea of how the whole ship is laid out.
Call the Ball is a current CV instructions to landing aircrafts abroad modern Aircraft Carriers. The Fresnel Lens that provides a visual reference to pilots concerning their altitude / glide slope relative to the ever pitching flight deck of an Aircraft Carrier. When a naval aviator captures visual reference to the Fresnel Lens the callback is, "I have 'the ball'." Our galaxies are not that far apart seems to guess.
To rotate craft on the ventral bay the elevator might rotate first and then be pulled up into the hanger bay, just a thought. Love the vid, always enjoy SD vids.
I love the tech in BSG, it's still solid sci-fi but so much more grounded and believable compared to things like Star Wars or Halo ect. Only thing that stands out is how the FTL functions, it's very different compared to almost every sci-fi, i'm thinking space folding maybe?
The BSG FTL jumps remind me of a BattleTech JumpShip jumping. Recharging is different, as is jumping in a gravity well. BattleTech is a slow (days or weeks) recharge and gravity messes with the jump. BSG can charge fast and from anywhere, to anywhere. They are both similar to having a max jump distance and jumping in a 'flash'.
Basically. It's an instantaneous jump between two areas. The other term they use is the "red line", which is the maximum distance you can safely jump to. The computer makes calculations based on speed and trajectory. Beyond the red line and you risk disaster like teleporting into an asteroid or planet. You have to keep in mind that light travels at 300,000km/s, so when you look up at the Sun, or the nearest star, you are seeing them in the past (8 minutes for the Sun and 4 years for Alpha Centauri).
in the pc game Fractured Space (free to play), you command capital ships and perform similar space tech to get to distant locations. some vessel have the capacity to perform quick and short jumps to ambush foes or avoid enemy fire.
To clarify, "The Red Line" is the maximum distance from Kobol you can jump accurately. I think it's a function of computational power and the thoroughness of the astrogation charting of the area around Kobol. It's a bit like driving fast down a road you know intimately at night versus one you've never seen in daylight. By extension, the less accurate the jump the riskier it is, but the cliche of "jumping into a sun" only applies if you're trying to jump close to a sun, because space is pretty damn empty. An inaccurate jump isn't, in of itself, riskier. But mostly you try and jump close to important things rather than into empty space.
jump drives are the second most common FTL system (the most common being star Trek-esque Warp/Hyperdrive systems), they were a lot more common in books than they are in shows, so you just don't see it much.
That was solid. I would imagine the artificial gravity for the lower area would be nonexistent, and activated when the craft flips over for the proper orientation once inside. Gravity seems to be functional on Raptors so they must be lower powered and controlled enough to manage that.
At 4.10 you bring up a picture of the Pegasus' Launch tubes. It looks as if there are upside down Viper launch tubes sealed off. Maybe they don't have to re-orient the vipers at all and make use of the artificial gravity to stick that flight deck to the 'ceiling' so both flight deck are essentially floor to floor. Though, where they find room for this is anyones guess.
Calling the ball refers to the Optical Landing System (OLS). The OLS is not the sequential landing lights. The actual ball is centered on the stern of each flight deck, just below the landing deck itself center mass. You see a red series of lights which looks like an "X" going three lights in the vertical and 4 lights off each side in the horizontal. The vertical is your glide slope adjust, and the horizontal is for centering both small and larger craft on the deck. LArger craft like Colonial One would need to center on-line with the lights since there wasn't any auto-landing systems. I hope this helps!
I could see the ship recovery system being akin to the plates (treads) on a tracked vehicle's track system. The plates each hold 1 viper, you guide the viper onto the plate attached by standard magnetic attachment, and the ships from below are righted as the belt goes over the end pulley so to speak. This allows multiple vipers to be recovered in short order. Even assuming only 2 plates on each flight deck you could recover 4 fighters at once. And all 4 fighters could be loaded onto or unloaded from the plates simultaneously meaning 8 vipers moving at once (4 loading and 4 unloading).
Thank you for at least addressing the gravity assumptions of a double stacked reverse flight deck, that one always has bothered me though I'm in the camp with you that it was an awesome idea.
@Spacedock If you read the Battle Star Galactica Series Bible, Checkers Red/Green actually refers to which elevator to land on. It is actually in fact, not the condition of the deck, even though it only seems to change based on deck condition."Checkers Red" is often used when there are non-combat situations, and "Checkers Green" Is only really ever used in combat scenarios or when there is no/limited contact with the ship. Not sure why this is but I would assume they lower into different compartments of the hanger that do different things or have different equipment available.
"The Ball" is not used just to center the flight trajectory away from the walls if it's used the same way wet navies do. The lights are arranged and filtered so that they can only be seen at predetermined angles. The purpose is to show that the approaching craft is on the correct approach vector (or glide path, when speaking of atmospheric operations) for a safe touchdown on the deck. If you are coming in too steeply or too shallowly, you see a different pattern of lights that indicate what you're doing wrong. The deck observer is also watching your approach and will wave you off if you're not on the correct vector.
When you showed the launch tube on the Pegasus for raptors, if you looked at the other launch tubes for the vipers, you would see that every second tube is inverted. This implies the lower launch bay on that pod is inverse gravity to the upper, with the two bays meeting in the middle of the grav field, so recovered vipers can be launched in the same orientation they were recovered in regardless of which bay took them in. I think that's your answer to the Pegasus launch question.
We see that the Mercury class has some of its lanch tubes also upside down relative to the rest of the ship so maybe they have a lower hanger bay for anything landing on the lower deck. Thats what I always thought anyway.
Day Vid yeah, but it doesn't explain exactly how/if they're righted 'up' relative to the ship's gravity once they do. We don't even know if the entire underslung flight pod just has...reversed gravity or something.
So maybe it's launch tubes are on their own deck below both the hangers? So it goes upper landing deck, upper hanger, launch tubes, lower hanger, lower landing deck and both hangers just lower fighters into the tubes when its time to scramble.
Either whoever wrote the wiki I looked at didn't have that info or someone came up with a cool idea for an effects shot in the show, which now needs fleshed out with some proper geeky specs
i think there is a zero G launch tube deck. and the vipers are being loaded via elevator from both hangar decks above and below the launch deck. that would make perfect sense to me
My guess is the Pegasus's rotating landing platform would look like the mechanism inside a self-inking stamp which has rails moving down in a thunderbolt pattern. I also like to think that the moment the Viper passes through that inversion point rookie pilots tend to lose their lunch giving the veterans another reason to mock them lol
I always pictured the Pegasus hanger deck as looking like an M.C. Escher painting with half the ships and workers running around on the ceiling. (With some funny and tragic mistakes being made just by passing a wrench to a co-worker.)
it looks like on the launch tubes with them being inverted next to normal that there are in fact 2 landing decks one for the upper bay and one for the lower, each deck has the gravity opposite, so that each has a deck in relation to each's orientation, this makes sense as only personnel and stores need to be moved through the gravity zones, making the "flip" part a lot simpler. it also allows to compact the launch tubes better as you see. Pretty simple really.
If you look at the model of the Pegasus that show the Raptor launch tube, you will see right side up Viper launch tubes and upside down launch tubes. My guess would be that the Vipers are launched in the orientation that they land and that the launch tubes are angled from each hanger bay. Each hanger bay, one for each landing bay is probably directly below each landing bay.
We do it on a carrier every day during flight ops. In the Navy You land and catch one of four wire and are taxied off to a side slot and are dropped to the hanger when needed or after flight ops are completed. Old carriers have four elevators, the new class have three elevators. Look up carrier flight operations, The Flight Deck is one or the worlds ten dangerous jobs.
Question: What was the situation for transitioning between the unpressurized landing deck and the pressurized hangar/launch deck below? Were the elevators also airlocks? How about transitioning from the hangar to the launch tubes? Was each of the tubes also a really long airlock?
an alternative option for the Mercury's Ventral landing bays, its mentioned how ships like Colonial one can fit in the pods of the Jupiter class, but doing so poses risks/limitations for combat situations. Having two large pods that could fit ships of a size similar to Colonial one, as well as clear strips for fighters/smaller transports could make sense. This would also allow the Mercury to serve as a command ship and carrier for vipers/raptors, but perhaps two-four small gunships/corvette sized craft.
Remember that the battlestar Pegasus had the ability to construct brand new vipers on board when enough raw materials were available. This accounted for the influx of new Vipers so sorely needed by both Battlestars. Prior to the discovery of the Pegasus the Gallactica had to design their own new Viper replacement, the Rosalyn stealth Fighter, from left over materials. It was difficult to fly and construct, but proved invaluable to the fleets effort to fight the Cylons. After the Pegasus joined the fleet many new avipers were available to the Gallactica. And the war progressed from there!
Interesting. The double landing pod gravity thing makes me think of the design problems that the Rocinante from The Expanse has. In the books she is said to be able to land on her belly, so 90 degree out of her thrust gravity plane. I get the feeling the series will just have her land arse end down most likely to keep the set design simple, but that would mean a pylon landing or sticky out feet and that cannot be as stable as a belly landing. Would love to hear what you think, especially as the series moves forward.
While it could technically land on it's belly, the vessel's frame is not made for it, and on top of that, the interior of the vessel is top down. If the body had any gravity you would be walking on the walls, which is not a good idea
In the TV series I would agree and I have struggled to wrap my head around how the Roci would land on her belly and still be accommodating for her crew. In the books it does say that she lands on its belly/keel, and in fact is capable of landing on planets. I won't spoil more than that for anyone who hasn't read all the books. It might just be that the books will be the books and the TV series will be the TV series -- still interesting to think about;-)
Regarding combat landings, Galactica specifically announces when combat landings are authorized, so I would assume that at least some of the pilots do land in a more sensible manner, and that it is not standard procedure to just slam down on the flight deck. As you say, the importance of saving the pilot and jumping away takes priority in the heat of the moment.
I would really like to hear about "realistic" spaceship design. Your explanation about your personal ship designs are nice, but they are more "form over function" when they need to fit your storyline (I am referencing another of your videos, sorry). But having a lecture from you or perhaps a mini-series of Spacedock episodes describing various necessities of spaceship design from a pragmatic perspective would be really nice to watch. Perhaps Ark ships that describe life support and long-range propulsion solutions or considerations for space-station designs. I really like your dry and information packed videos. keep up the great work!
Here is something that allways bugged me about the launch tubes from the Galactica: The fighters are launched from the flight pods at a right angle to the ship's keel line, right? Isn't the launch tube as seen in the launch sequences awfully long compared to the beam of the flight pod?
As a lover of reading fanfictions, you have caught my interest like the #3 wire on a landing deck. What would be the name of this mentioned fic, and where is it posted?
@@BikerDash I actually lost interest a while back and stopped writing it. Never posted it either. It kind of sucked TBH, so just as well. Sorry to disappoint.
hi tarvor from spacedock fans here. i just recently bought the game Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, after you mentioned that game. it is really good and i recommend the battlestar galactica mod. also the rotation mechanism can be just the landing plate but instead of ascending/descending it just rotates around the axis. doesent require more maintenance than i lift if you ask me.
Others have pointed out that there are up/down viper launch tubes (from the still you show the Pegasus with the raptor launch tubes). I'd suggest that there are two landing decks, two maintenance decks, and a shared launch deck that is zero-g with the craft being held in place by magnetic systems (and any crews using magnetic boots). This makes the most sense as you can orient your gravity plating as necessary and don't have to reorient your craft through a complicated lift system (simple is always better in a combat ship). As for why the set of "inverted" launch tubes are blocked off is because you would not launch vipers from both decks simultaneously - it would screw with your pilots immediate post-launch flight coordination and orientation. You'd want a wing to launch in the same "position" and to be able to orient to their wingmates. More importantly, you wouldn't want the relatively "inverted" launch tubes open to space if you weren't planning on an immediate launch, just in case you're doing maintenance on a lift and might have that tube exposed to the interior of your maintenance deck. There's probably a little transit vehicle that goes between these decks that flips the crews around, or even a moving walkway where there's a zero gravity area on the deck that allows you to simply clamp onto the walkway with mag boots and ride it to the other maintenance deck through the launch deck.
![[Gegagedigedagedago] NEW Help Gegagedigedagedago Nugget escape from Nikocado Avocado Challenge](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hJWnwRC2Fz8/mqdefault.jpg)
"Chief Tyrol why can't we use the starboard launch tube?"
"It's a gift shop"
Mitch G--- which has the reply line...:"FRAK ME"...
so much yup.....
And eventually a refugee shanty town.
Best damn deadpan line in the series. Damn, I'm glad Galactica finished the way she did. Serving as a tourist attraction, complete w/food court & the Colonial version of a Starbucks (HAH!...🤣) on all accessable decks just seems beneath her dignity.
Hey man, never underestimate the morale-boosting effect of a well-stocked gift shop.
Can we just take a moment to acknowledge the mad skills of the Captain of the Colonial One ship who, on multiple occasions, actually lands that monster inside the Galactica MANUALLY!?!?!?!?!?!
I know right?? Upon rewatching the miniseries I was like "wait whaaaaaaa-" when that thing was just smoothly sliding into the landing pod RIGHT after Boomer was yelling about how hard it was to land on it with her Raptor.
Do we ever see him again after the miniseries?
@@Urzaknight He was too busy commanding the Prometheus, flying SG-1 around.
@@frederalbacon good thing to be doing
@@Urzaknight Nah, but he left a lasting impression. That moment in the mini series when they're finding other ships and he changes callsign from Colonial Heavy 798 to Colonial One and has a little smile is an awesome moment.
As a former Navy Vet, I've served on a couple of Nimitz class carriers, and BSG did an excellent job at matching the landing feel.
I am pretty sure the movie Top Gun added some military references that many viewers possess now the jargon BSG used would be easily understood.
Yeah Top Gun ftw.
I'm so sorry to hear that you're no longer a veteran, how did you loose it?
@@rsrt6910 He probably "loosed" it at the same English grammar class that taught kids the wrong definition between "loose" (an object not secured down) and "lose" (having something miss-placed or taken from you).
Or is this going to turn into an English contest instead of talking nerdy sci-fi facts and such?
@@weirdguy564 There's a difference between pedants and nerdy sci-fi fans? ...Says the pedantic sf-fan ;)
A quick note at 2:33, the museum scene: It is literally in honor of the 1978 BSG. It has 'Cylon War era' Raider, a 'Colonial Viper' (aka the MK. I Viper) a Landram (which was used prominently in the old show), a miniature of the old model Cylon Basestar, an actual Cylon Centurion costume from 78 portrayed in a display, and I'm pretty sure a shuttle from the 78 show as well.
You can see an operating landram descending from one of the mining ships at one point in the series
@@ancaplanaoriginal5303 You can also see an old '78-style shuttle being used by the colonial representative at the Armistice Station, in the mini-series.
its because in cannon, those ships were used in the first cylon war, you see the old basestars and raiders used in both razor, and deadlock, a brilliant bsg game
If you listen close, during the ceremony when the Vipers do their fly-by, the music playing in the background is from the 78 series.
Man at first I was pissed of all the re imaging but I love how they acknowledged all the old school stuff. And now I love the new designs more ja. Even bought the models
I think the use of Raptors for taxiing people was done because shuttles lack FTL-Capability and in the event of a Cylon-Attack, they would be unable to do an emergency jump. Landing all the shuttles would take way too long, so the use of Raptors was basically the only way to create a safe exchange of people and most likely also (at least some) goods between the ships of the fleet.
I imagine it's also because those shuttles are quite high-capacity (they appear to have multiple decks, at least) and launching and retrieving them just for short flights of a few people would be complete overkill (not to mention a waste of limited fuel).
And also, the internal sets/external CGI models were already built.
A '70s-style shuttle wasn't shown until President Roslyn landed on Kobol (and then only as a grounded CGI model behind her.)
Edit: I stand corrected. A few comments below this; someone points out that a '70s shuttle is also on display in the Galactica Museum.)
@@jedigecko06 Dude the 70s shuttle is the focal point of the opening shot of the mini series!
the big shuttles probably had FTL as well, we see a TOS style version making the trip out to Armistice station in the miniseries opening, and that trip would certainly have required an FTL jump to make in a reasonable time given how distant that station was. and we have the newer style show seeming to operate independently as part of the fleet in several cases. (sometimes appearing in fleet shots flying in formation with much larger vessels)
i suspect that the in universe reason to use Raptor's primarily was probably because not all the ships had hangers big enough to handle such craft, or docking systems able to dock them externally, but most ships did have hangers (or cargo loading bays) that could easily fit a raptor. though i suspect that those types of shuttles probably did see use helping to ferry civilians around the fleet between the bigger ships.
"Call the Ball" is another modern day Naval Carrier term that refers to the Source light (also known as the Meatball because of its orange color) on the Optical Landing Systems (OLS) installed on most modern day aircraft carriers. The "Meatball" depicts the landing aircraft's relative position to the glideslope. The term "Call the Ball" is given to the pilot by the LSO, and the pilots reply "I have the Ball" lets the LSO know that the pilot sees the Meatball and is able to use it to properly guide the aircraft in.
I was just a bout to write all of that out too lol.
Correct and the OLS on a carrier uses a series of lenses to make it so you can only see the meatball if you are lined up correctly
2020Max1 a most excellent explanation
It’s the SGSI/WOLS. I had the NEC.
It's visible at 0:36
I served in the Navy back in the 80's, and I complement the creators of the re-imagined series at how authentically military they made the series, along with the story and everything else. and I also agree with you about the pilots having to slam the skids down on the flight deck when performing combat landings.
Makes sense that the Flight Control Officer is a high ranking position, after all one of a Battlestar's biggest assets is being able to launch and recover its fighters in an efficient manner.
I don't think the limited supply of Vipers was ever really a critical issue, the Galactica always had far more fighters available than they had qualified pilots to fly them. Risking structural damage to the fighter in a rough combat landing, in order to guarantee safe return of the pilot was probably a trade-off they had zero qualms over.
That is way we have ejector seats in modern fighters, it's considered better to need to replace a craft then a trained pilot.
Roald Dahl's WWII RAF memoirs said this. A hurricane can be built in a week. A pilot takes months.
except that they didn't have the ability to build new fighters if they did trash one, outside of the period that they had Pegasus for that (though why they put a fighter-factory on a warship is beyond me).
I feel like it was less that the Pegasus had a literal Viper factory production line on board, and more that they had the capability to fabricate replacement parts for their fighters while on deployment. Being able to build replacement parts adhoc gives them the ability to build entire new Vipers.
As for the Galactica, they had either 40 or 80 Mk. II Vipers and only ~20 something qualified pilots following the Fall of the Colonies. The Vipers were a whole lot more expendable than the pilots, even if they were never able to replace them.
Smathalgoth I think it was stated in an early episode as 39 vipers including Lee's mk 7
1) galactica announces combat jump preparations and sounds the recall
2) checkers red, call the ball
3)????
4) skids down, maglock secure.
Yeah, it makes sense. We even see the vipers touch down several times and bounce before sticking during combat landing footage.
ALSOthank you for yer service.
checker's red: Welcome to Pinball Wizard the home game..... :)
Personally if its really hectic and my fighter has magnetic landing leags, if nessisary I'd land on the ceiling. Yes i'd be uspidown (if the landing deck has gravity) but i'd be out of the way and secure for the ships to make its escape jump.
@@firstname9954 the problem with yer ping-pong reference, the only thing slowing it down is air resistance and on the bounce also gravity... One if not both are missing here.
@@firstname9954the only thing to impact here are photons of light, not really known for slowing down meteors much less vipers, and the metal of the battle star itself. 0G just takes away acceleration into the deck, assuming its off or it "must" be accounted for as impacts at enough speed make things go crack, we're both heavily in agreement here at least. the moment that viper hits the deck all that electrical magnetic heat exchange all day long but with the ping pong ball along with a lot of your otherwise rather accurate heat exchange jargon, Air is the substance you keep pointing at without naming it directly, this simply isn't a factor at all here, things in a vacuum facing a star don't freeze, they burn air radiates heat faster than infrared re-emission, the latter being a very poor method of removing heat or bothering with resisting... explicitly this is not orbital re-entry into an atmosphere in any sense or shape of the matter this is throwing a pebble at a very empty tin can if the ping pong ball has the same mass as the pebble the they still get there at the same time under the same amount of force. but there's literally nothing between the Viper and the flight deck to even hint at slowing it down if not pull it in faster this includes your electromagnet attraction, except maybe another obstructing viper and/or your ships own thrusters which "could" classify as literally the only plasma or gas in this situation, and its too busy being yoinked apart by that (gasp) vacuum to be accountable for nothing more than vector thrust. also literally the only thing slowing you down from former speed, magnetic attraction, and/or gravity now.... but not because its flowing into a medium of its kin, more gas... quite the opposite actually.
Mag tubes are also good for getting rid of New Caprica Cylon Sympathizers...
Thank you was just watching that !!!!!!!!!!!!!~!~!
And that one hanger deck girl that discovered four more fleshy toasters among the Galactica population...
Q: How to land on the Battlestar Galactica?
A: You spacedock ;)
I always considered the haphazard combat landings to be the result of two things, actually. First, it's a matter of recovering all the fighters as quickly as possible and not leaving anyone behind. Second, it has to do with the fact the Galactica's flight pods retract prior to a jump. Vipers landing would be moving perpendicular to the retracting deck, making it riskier to try and be land normally since over-correcting accidentally would likely end with a Viper being bounced around a bit because it hits the wall because it's moving independantly of Galactica. Either of those ends up with a Viper being lost or effecitvely disabled (even if only for the time it takes to confirm it's still spaceworthy), something the Fleet can ill afford for most the series.
All that is a great point, but you are missing the biggest thing for the show, it looks cool. Lol
Randall Brink yeah the rule of cool wins the day here. Though one thing I don't get is why the Vipers have Skids exclusively, surely it would make sense to have wheels that they can use for ease of maneuvering when in the maintenance bays rather than being dragged along on skids
i agree, skids make no sense on Vipers. Wheels are under-used in scifi.
Will wap496 that's a good point was just a thought I had about little oddities in the design is all
and how about an inverted magnetic field in the deck or like pulling/shoving "rails" ?!
Interacting with the magnetic skids/clamps it would make them Vipers hovering and easy to move around, wouldnt it?!
i love that my yearly rewatch of Galactica timed up with a bunch of youtubers posting a bunch of bsg stuff. Feels good man.
Remember, the Enemy’s gate is down.
Oh wait, thats the confusing shenanigans of landing on the Pegasus.
On the Pegasus flight pods, what if there are two sets of 'below-deck' hangers for each flight pod, one each oriented to the ventral and dorsal. On the Pegasus model shown, the Viper tubes appear to be in both orientations (but not the Raptor one). Then you just need to re-orient the crew when they move from the 'upside down' hangers into the rest of the ship. No need for the complex lift system, least until you need to move craft from one hanger to the other.
And on the Raptors being used as taxis instead of the bigger shuttles, the Raptors are probably more cost (limited fuel in the fleet) effective for small loads of passengers and cargo. And for big loads, I always thought the larger ships could just dock with one another for transfers.
The Mercury class Battlestar's launch tubes are all oriented the same way. If you look closely, you will notice that the triangular shapes in between the flight pods are filled in, as it is within that space that you have the operations area of each flight pod (you'll notice that during a Viper launch, the pilot gives a visual thumbs up to the person operating this space.) Regarding the lifts, I think that perhaps the Ventral lifts simply are lowered down, giving the Vipers a platform that is then raised into the hangar, or they just relocate to the Dorsal section for reentry.
The two hanger decks could use one set of artificial gravity generators between them so that gravity 'pulls' from the same point, but from both 'top' and 'bottom' from the pilots perspective. The only question I have is, the line of Viper tubes aren't over/under each other, but side by side. Are the magnetic rails angled so that the ships exit from the same line from either the upper or lower decks? Would LOVE to see blue prints for this.
@@kirkbyers6882 Firstly, these tubes do not utilize a magnetic rail for the Viper itself, but rather a catapult (much like a RL carrier), which latches onto the front skid of the Viper. Then a counterweight runs along rails in the opposite direction flinging the Viper out. Secondly, as I said before, the Triangular shapes pointing down are not tubes, as that area contains the operations office for each tube, wherein the tubes are operated by Flight Deck NCOs.
The smaller, ventral deck on the Pegasus is probably used for shuttles and/or raptors, where rapid turn around isn't as essential
One thing they could have done is that the elevator on the bottom could rotate 180 degree when the raptor is magnetically lock so when the it bring the craft up into the hanger it not upside down
Also, I liked the layout of the flight pods in the reboot. They just made more sense, especially considering the possibility of a botched landing or a fouled deck...just add throttle and keep going.
The original Galactica wasn't designed to allow that as only the rear portion was for landing with the middle portion being the service hangar, and the forward section occupied by 4 forward angled launch tubes....all on the same level.
For the Pegasus lower landing pods, I always assumed the artificial gravity was reversed on the flight deck (no need to flip the lifts) with 0G corridors leading to the ship proper to avoid any sudden gravity reversal.
It's artificial...upside down is right-side up in those landing bays. EVERYTHING is upside down. Storage, maintenance, everything. Even the launch tubes are inverted.
Agreed. My assumption was that “down” was some kind of device, so arranging that device as a flat plane in the middle of the two flight decks would create two different areas oriented 180 degrees from one another, so the real challenge is when moving from the inverted area to the rest of the ship (which makes me greatly appreciate the canonical solution to artificial gravity in The Expanse).
1) Point at deck
2) Pray to the Lords of Kobol
"OH LORDS OH LORDS OH LOR-" *wham*
Related to BSG again I'd like to see more information on the Point Defense and artillery pieces of both Galactica and Pegasus. The show seems to bounce back and forth between semi- and fully automatic models during engagements, and the main guns are so rarely used. Also the missile tubes.
in most battles, Galacticas main guns fire flak projectiles to help with the antifighter and anti missile defence of the ship.
During the Pegasus last battle you hear Lee say “Set main battery to auto fire cycle B” as they abandon ship. So the Pegasus has the capability to have her guns be fired with the very minimum crew present. And the Pegasus has so many point defense guns, no way you could have a crew to man them. They are likely modeled after the Phalanx and Goalkeeper point defense guns in use today. Crews are only needed to reload them at some point and maintenance. The Galactica’s main battery turrets have people actually in them, you can see them in the windows during close ups. And during the resurrection ship fight, Adama says “Have batteries Alfa through Echo switch to salvo fire.” So Galactica guns are manually controlled and fired. They are likely slaved to a central fire control battery, you see that in the Nebula battle, but that’s it.
The battlestar's main battery was also its flak battery, so most of the time the guns were used to fire flak to protect it from raiders and fissile missiles. The exception was the 'Bow Battery' on the Pegasus/Mercury class, which was 4 fixed dual forward firing guns even heavier than the main battery, and used solely for firing at enemy base ships.
This is why there is the common misconception Pegasus could have outfought those four base stars in the episode she was destroyed, given how she easily dispatched the first one. That was purely by surprise, hence Pegasus could use her 8 bow battery guns and her 60 main battery guns entirely against the base ship - after that she needed to use the 60 main battery guns for flak as she was under VERY heavy raider and fissile missile attack, so she only had those 8 bow guns for offence.
In the other large scale engagement between battlestars and base stars (the resurrection ship battle), the base stars fighters were drawn away, while the battlestars fighters were concentrated on the resurrection ship - meaning both battlestars could ease off their flak and devote more of their main battery to what they call 'salvo fire' - ie firing at the base ship itself.
Galactica is credited with 48 main battery guns (anti-ship OR flak), and 1028 point defence guns.
Pegasus is credited with 8 bow battery guns (anti-ship), 60 main battery guns (anti-ship OR flak), and 'numerous' point defence guns (almost certainly more than the Galactica, probably over 1500).
All the guns (bow battery, main battery, point defence) on both Galactica and Pegasus, are mounted in pairs. Galactica's main battery turrets are individually manned, her point defence turrets are manned remotely. All Pegasus's guns are remotely manned.
Hey brother, just wanted to say you are a total dork and I love your videos. Thanks for what you do.
All total dorks in unison: So Say We All
4:58
what mini-series (Caprica ) man i loved Caprica what a great show!
I wish you could find that one in Blu-ray. That's the only one in my collection still in DVD
Flipping the fighters would be as easy as using a different kind of door. Instead of an elevator type door, just use one on a hinge. The "floor" you're sitting on swings in and ends up on the back side of the landing pod "floor".
For the ventral hangars... Instead of a 'Lift' per-se, you have the taxi deck 'flip' to be reoriented to the relative artificial gravity of the rest of the ship. The deck would lock into place with pistons or some such, and when a Viper or a Raptor lands on it, the deck would rotate to flip the ship 'upright' into a chamber large enough to accommodate the ship. An outer door seals the chamber now below the fighter, and the whole thing is brought up on tracks like a heavy duty elevator, and pops up on the deck between [if you had more space between those two hangars]
Now that would be fucking cool, I like the way you think
Hotdog getting ready to launch as Galactica is falling through the atmosphere of new caprica and going "this will be different" is my favorite 10 seconds of the show
In modern carriers the "ball" is a reference object near the back of the ship with lights or flags that tells the pilot if they are coming in high or low and whether they are coming in too fast or too slow. It isn't the landing strip on the deck itself. I suspect Galactica has a similar mechanism on the back of the landing pods.
My take on the "combat landings" is that it was about more than just getting as many fighters on the deck as quickly as possible.
In peacetime, it's easy to teakettle to the deck of a ship that is maintaining constant speed and bearing, but in combat the Galactica herself would be maneuvering, sometimes violently.
Trying to RCS yourself gently onto a pad would risk you touching down hard during one of those maneuvers. Better to come down quickly and get magnetized to the deck ASAP.
How to land on the Battlestar Galactica ?
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Happily.
I've taken measurements of the 3D model of the Pegasus. She has TWO hangar decks for viper maintenance. In all likelihood they are oriented with the landing bay that they service. As such, the connection between decks is somewhere between the two and not between the hangar and landing pods. It also means that the launch tubes are all angled down very slightly from their respective deck, given that all of the tubes meet on a single line on the exterior of the ship.
Outstanding presentation.
Loved BSG.
All I know is that a lot of Navy and Air Force vets will be happy to know that they are using flight commands in this show and it also can be a prelude to the future when we reach that level of tech. But we would still use military style commands in order to make sure that the human forces can get home.
I don't think the mercury class's lower landing bay has lifts. I think the pad just rotates with the viper or raptor on it flipping it up right and bringing it in to the interior with one motion.
Further more I think the craft get flipped into a air lock and while flight deck personnel are clearing it off the pad another viper is already landing on the back side of the pad so as soon as the airlock is cleared and decompressed the pad flips again.
I have been wondering about this for SO LONG. THANK YOU.
Your thiughts on the Pegasus flights decks is exactly what I was thinking. Well done.
I am literally the only battle star galactica fan in my entire school. And I’m proud of it! Go Starbuck!!!
This is my kinda video. Love a bit of deep lore when it comes to things that go unnoticed in sci-fi like radio chatter and docking procedures. I'm gonna look for more on your channel now!
Thank you Daniel, that was a great video and it answered a lot of questions for me.
Awesome tutorial. Now I won't be a puddle for the Chief of the Deck to wash away with a hose.
Frakin eh.
Goddamn!!! Saw the entire show twice, and never saw that @ 04:11... Sir, YOU are the MAN!
Gr8 video, as always.
It gets the *SARKHAN SEAL OF APPROVAL*
??????????????
I think the bad combat landings on Galactica make perfect sense. Because the landings are executed by people who my be extraordinary competent but are also in fear for there lives. Even the best pilots I know(I know some pretty good ones) just have bad landings some times. That's without fear for your life with a timer attached. "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing" -Everone in aviation at least once
I love stuff like this. Please do more of it. Especially related to combat and how the weapons and combat systems work on a Battle Star. BSG is my favorite sci fi series. It’s based enough in reality to really draw you in. I love BSG enough that i bought a EagleMoss BSG Galactica diecast. It’s a shame that we can not get a First Cylon war mini series.
Thank You!! Just binged my 10-year-rewatch & the ep w/ Kat on Stims: "YOU HAVE THE BALL!" was driving me crazy: *What BALL?!!* 😂 Wanted to mention that i noticed the vipers ALWAYS came in, in the Exact same pattern EVERY TIME they had to jump away: 2, then 1 off to the side. Probably saved a ton on production costs, which: WHEW! Thx again! ✌💗
There are two canon ways to land a Viper in on a Battlestar.
The Lee Adama way: glide in nice and smooth and bitch that it was, once again, hands on.
The Starbuck way: fast, messy, and usually missing vital parts of the Viper! 😆
The lower flight decks on the Pegasus would be prime places for additional troop/cargo transport ships to be parked/launched from, or for ships the size of Colonial Heavy 798-- I mean Colonial One to land while keeping the upper decks ready for combat operations.
@Spacedock A tactic used by some ships I have seen is where there is no mechanism that flips the ship just a entry to a elevator that is the right way up with lights designating to the upside down pilots to use RCS thrusters to rotate their ship to the correct orientation, then drifts in the elevator area to be lifted up into the hangar. The runway is kept upside down to allow more space so other craft can land.
In Battlestar Galactica the ships have runways not only for landing but there is a tactic used that I believe that Pegasus can make use of. That being carrying a large taskforce of Vipers, Raptors, and/or bombers maglocked on the runways while all the launch tubes are filled. Once the ship jumps in the tubes launch all the vipers in there while the maglocked ships take off slowly from the runways. This tactic will allow a Battlestar to carry 2 to almost 5 times their normal payload of vipers.
On the Pegasus for the double deck I think the lateral lights are used to check the right approach orientation.. As in exemple pilote have to check if the two green lights are always on their right!
Daniel, I've also noticed when the flight chief says, "Trejector is green..." I cannot remember where, but it seemed to happen just before a landing or after launch, or during an in-flight situation.
Hello there. Thank you for the information on the Galactica and Pegasus. I am a original fan of BSG, from the seventy,s up to the 2000s. , 23/Jan/2021. My wife and I are still watching both sets of the Galactica DVDs along with the Caprica dvds. Stay safe. “ So say we all”. : Sara and John in the UK.
Cool detail regarding the Raptor shaped launch tubes on the Pegasus.
I've been subscribed to this channel for a week and now I want to watch Battlestar Galactica.
6:15 - I don't know if it answers that question but if you look at 4:10 you'll notice that some of the Viper's launch tube are inverted.
How about a video on the Eagle Lander of Space:1999?
And the Hawk warship variant!
The Mark 9 Hawks? :)
@@frankpinmtl That might be them. They only appeared in a few episodes; not much is known about them. I remember an issue of Starlog Magazine having a pull-out section of the Eagle Transporter schematics in one of their issues. Wish I still had that one; it was a great reference.
I think that's what Victor Bergman called them in the episode when they 'attacked' moon base Alpha.
At 0:24
th-cam.com/video/NpgLcHXiEUU/w-d-xo.html
Not sure if someone else has said it as well, but there are actually three Raptor launch tubes on each flightpod according to the 3D model of the Pegasus, with each one at the beginning of a group of launch tubes, making a grand total of 6 Raptor launch tubes. And seeing as the Raptor is much wider than a Viper, I think these Raptor launch tubes can also launch Vipers safely from them as well.
If you can gget them into magnetic clamps of much biger size. If not, the launching tube can't be used for Vipers, only for Raptors
My question about the upside-down hangar bay on the Pegasus is: Where do the spacecraft elevators go? There needs to be a space "under" the hangar bay for the spacecraft elevators to "descend" into.
Excellent analysis!
Another great presentation! 😊 Thank you!
@Spacedock. I don’t think the Pegasus rotated the vipers/raptors that land on the ‘under flight deck’ as when you showed the raptor launch tubes ( 4:13 ) it had viper tubes that looked to be upside down so the Pegasus may have 4 hander decks in total just 2 by 2 at the floor with grave generators and a way for the crew to orientate themselves to whatever is up at that time.
Excellent video, really enjoyed it!
BSG is awesome. "Its in the frakin ship!" Lol
Your voice is like butter. You can talk about what ever you want off the cuff.
Hi Spacedock Team :)
Great Video as always! But theres something I'd like to add concerning the Pegasus flight pods. I don't think the ventral inverted flight decks feature a rotating elevator system but a standard elevator and above the ventral flight deck an also inverted 2nd hangar deck.
My theory is that from top to bottom relative to pegasus standard gravity the internal decks of the flight pods are:
- flight deck - hangar deck - launch tube deck (ZERO G, access from both sides) - inverted hangar deck - inverted flight deck -
This theory came to my mind while looking at the flight pods broad side. the triangular shaped cross section of the viper tubes can be seen. but unlike galacticas launch tubes they are not oriented the same way (pointy upwards) but instead they are alternatingly inverted. so i think pegasus has a top and a lower (inverted G) hangar deck and the vipers are being loaded into the launch tubes via elevator into a zero G launch tube level from top and bottom. i believe any other way it would be nonsense to build the launch tubes inverted on a single standard G hangar deck. anyone would agree on that i guess. as for the inverted area Crews, they would simply pass through a zero g passage way in the launch tube level and just turn upside down before climbing "up" into their hangar deck.
What do you think? Let me know and thx for the great videos!! :)
Exactly.
Just to jump in on the whole Raptors are always used as shuttles. I think it's a simple matter of fridge brilliance. Raptors have FTL. We don't know if the shuttles do. You wouldn't want officers or VIPs caught in a non-FTL capable craft if the fleet got jumped by the Cylons during a ship to ship transfer. QED...use Raptors. In reality...they build a whole Raptor set and it wouldn't make sense to build another set just for the ten second scenes of flying ship to ship. Great video as always. Can't wait for more!
During WW2, some Essex class carriers had a catapult on the hangar deck so you could launch a plane from the hangar deck.
Why didn't they convert the starboard hanger from museum to landing bay, or was the whole pod including the lower sections and control equipment removed of opened?
I believe the catapult systems in the starboard pod were removed for the museum, so they couldn't launch anything if they wanted to.
You would think that, but that isn't the case. Galactica's starboard flight pod was a museum for the beginning of the series, then later it became housing space for civilians of other ship crews that lost their ships. You can even see in the graphics of the show that the starboard pod has geodesic glass over the ends. This is also the area where the bar was setup for the third season, then one where Starbuck starts playing the piano to the tune of All Along the Watch Tower from "memory". That whole area was a sort of shanty town.
it's said in the pilot that the starboard launch tubes have been turned into a gift shop.
Great job as always.
Very good and informative Video! Thx with greetz from germany!
From what I remember seeing, the Pegasus' landing bays are mirrored dorsal and ventral so the lower deck is always upside down relative to the ship itself. This includes the working deck and hanger/launch tube spaces.
For anybody who has the game Space Engineers, there's a Battlestar on the Steam Workshop that perfectly explains how all of this works as you can physically traverse the ship. It really lets you get an idea of how the whole ship is laid out.
Call the Ball is a current CV instructions to landing aircrafts abroad modern Aircraft Carriers. The Fresnel Lens that provides a visual reference to pilots concerning their altitude / glide slope relative to the ever pitching flight deck of an Aircraft Carrier. When a naval aviator captures visual reference to the Fresnel Lens the callback is, "I have 'the ball'."
Our galaxies are not that far apart seems to guess.
To rotate craft on the ventral bay the elevator might rotate first and then be pulled up into the hanger bay, just a thought. Love the vid, always enjoy SD vids.
I love the tech in BSG, it's still solid sci-fi but so much more grounded and believable compared to things like Star Wars or Halo ect.
Only thing that stands out is how the FTL functions, it's very different compared to almost every sci-fi, i'm thinking space folding maybe?
The BSG FTL jumps remind me of a BattleTech JumpShip jumping. Recharging is different, as is jumping in a gravity well. BattleTech is a slow (days or weeks) recharge and gravity messes with the jump. BSG can charge fast and from anywhere, to anywhere. They are both similar to having a max jump distance and jumping in a 'flash'.
Basically. It's an instantaneous jump between two areas. The other term they use is the "red line", which is the maximum distance you can safely jump to. The computer makes calculations based on speed and trajectory. Beyond the red line and you risk disaster like teleporting into an asteroid or planet. You have to keep in mind that light travels at 300,000km/s, so when you look up at the Sun, or the nearest star, you are seeing them in the past (8 minutes for the Sun and 4 years for Alpha Centauri).
in the pc game Fractured Space (free to play), you command capital ships and perform similar space tech to get to distant locations. some vessel have the capacity to perform quick and short jumps to ambush foes or avoid enemy fire.
To clarify, "The Red Line" is the maximum distance from Kobol you can jump accurately. I think it's a function of computational power and the thoroughness of the astrogation charting of the area around Kobol. It's a bit like driving fast down a road you know intimately at night versus one you've never seen in daylight.
By extension, the less accurate the jump the riskier it is, but the cliche of "jumping into a sun" only applies if you're trying to jump close to a sun, because space is pretty damn empty. An inaccurate jump isn't, in of itself, riskier. But mostly you try and jump close to important things rather than into empty space.
jump drives are the second most common FTL system (the most common being star Trek-esque Warp/Hyperdrive systems), they were a lot more common in books than they are in shows, so you just don't see it much.
That was solid. I would imagine the artificial gravity for the lower area would be nonexistent, and activated when the craft flips over for the proper orientation once inside. Gravity seems to be functional on Raptors so they must be lower powered and controlled enough to manage that.
At 4.10 you bring up a picture of the Pegasus' Launch tubes. It looks as if there are upside down Viper launch tubes sealed off. Maybe they don't have to re-orient the vipers at all and make use of the artificial gravity to stick that flight deck to the 'ceiling' so both flight deck are essentially floor to floor.
Though, where they find room for this is anyones guess.
Calling the ball refers to the Optical Landing System (OLS). The OLS is not the sequential landing lights. The actual ball is centered on the stern of each flight deck, just below the landing deck itself center mass. You see a red series of lights which looks like an "X" going three lights in the vertical and 4 lights off each side in the horizontal. The vertical is your glide slope adjust, and the horizontal is for centering both small and larger craft on the deck. LArger craft like Colonial One would need to center on-line with the lights since there wasn't any auto-landing systems. I hope this helps!
I could see the ship recovery system being akin to the plates (treads) on a tracked vehicle's track system. The plates each hold 1 viper, you guide the viper onto the plate attached by standard magnetic attachment, and the ships from below are righted as the belt goes over the end pulley so to speak. This allows multiple vipers to be recovered in short order. Even assuming only 2 plates on each flight deck you could recover 4 fighters at once. And all 4 fighters could be loaded onto or unloaded from the plates simultaneously meaning 8 vipers moving at once (4 loading and 4 unloading).
Thank you for at least addressing the gravity assumptions of a double stacked reverse flight deck, that one always has bothered me though I'm in the camp with you that it was an awesome idea.
@Spacedock If you read the Battle Star Galactica Series Bible, Checkers Red/Green actually refers to which elevator to land on. It is actually in fact, not the condition of the deck, even though it only seems to change based on deck condition."Checkers Red" is often used when there are non-combat situations, and "Checkers Green" Is only really ever used in combat scenarios or when there is no/limited contact with the ship. Not sure why this is but I would assume they lower into different compartments of the hanger that do different things or have different equipment available.
"The Ball" is not used just to center the flight trajectory away from the walls if it's used the same way wet navies do. The lights are arranged and filtered so that they can only be seen at predetermined angles. The purpose is to show that the approaching craft is on the correct approach vector (or glide path, when speaking of atmospheric operations) for a safe touchdown on the deck. If you are coming in too steeply or too shallowly, you see a different pattern of lights that indicate what you're doing wrong. The deck observer is also watching your approach and will wave you off if you're not on the correct vector.
When you showed the launch tube on the Pegasus for raptors, if you looked at the other launch tubes for the vipers, you would see that every second tube is inverted. This implies the lower launch bay on that pod is inverse gravity to the upper, with the two bays meeting in the middle of the grav field, so recovered vipers can be launched in the same orientation they were recovered in regardless of which bay took them in. I think that's your answer to the Pegasus launch question.
Very well done good sir.
We see that the Mercury class has some of its lanch tubes also upside down relative to the rest of the ship so maybe they have a lower hanger bay for anything landing on the lower deck. Thats what I always thought anyway.
apparently they land 'upside down' relative to the ship, according to a battlestar wiki I just checked out
Day Vid yeah, but it doesn't explain exactly how/if they're righted 'up' relative to the ship's gravity once they do. We don't even know if the entire underslung flight pod just has...reversed gravity or something.
So maybe it's launch tubes are on their own deck below both the hangers? So it goes upper landing deck, upper hanger, launch tubes, lower hanger, lower landing deck and both hangers just lower fighters into the tubes when its time to scramble.
Either whoever wrote the wiki I looked at didn't have that info or someone came up with a cool idea for an effects shot in the show, which now needs fleshed out with some proper geeky specs
i think there is a zero G launch tube deck. and the vipers are being loaded via elevator from both hangar decks above and below the launch deck. that would make perfect sense to me
My guess is the Pegasus's rotating landing platform would look like the mechanism inside a self-inking stamp which has rails moving down in a thunderbolt pattern. I also like to think that the moment the Viper passes through that inversion point rookie pilots tend to lose their lunch giving the veterans another reason to mock them lol
I always pictured the Pegasus hanger deck as looking like an M.C. Escher painting with half the ships and workers running around on the ceiling. (With some funny and tragic mistakes being made just by passing a wrench to a co-worker.)
it looks like on the launch tubes with them being inverted next to normal that there are in fact 2 landing decks one for the upper bay and one for the lower, each deck has the gravity opposite, so that each has a deck in relation to each's orientation, this makes sense as only personnel and stores need to be moved through the gravity zones, making the "flip" part a lot simpler. it also allows to compact the launch tubes better as you see.
Pretty simple really.
If you look at the model of the Pegasus that show the Raptor launch tube, you will see right side up Viper launch tubes and upside down launch tubes. My guess would be that the Vipers are launched in the orientation that they land and that the launch tubes are angled from each hanger bay. Each hanger bay, one for each landing bay is probably directly below each landing bay.
We do it on a carrier every day during flight ops. In the Navy You land and catch one of four wire and are taxied off to a side slot and are dropped to the hanger when needed or after flight ops are completed. Old carriers have four elevators, the new class have three elevators. Look up carrier flight operations, The Flight Deck is one or the worlds ten dangerous jobs.
Nice vid man, I always like carrier stuff.
Question: What was the situation for transitioning between the unpressurized landing deck and the pressurized hangar/launch deck below? Were the elevators also airlocks? How about transitioning from the hangar to the launch tubes? Was each of the tubes also a really long airlock?
an alternative option for the Mercury's Ventral landing bays, its mentioned how ships like Colonial one can fit in the pods of the Jupiter class, but doing so poses risks/limitations for combat situations. Having two large pods that could fit ships of a size similar to Colonial one, as well as clear strips for fighters/smaller transports could make sense. This would also allow the Mercury to serve as a command ship and carrier for vipers/raptors, but perhaps two-four small gunships/corvette sized craft.
Kelly was also in CIC during the attack on New Caprica
Remember that the battlestar Pegasus had the ability to construct brand new vipers on board when enough raw materials were available. This accounted for the influx of new Vipers so sorely needed by both Battlestars. Prior to the discovery of the Pegasus the Gallactica had to design their own new Viper replacement, the Rosalyn stealth Fighter, from left over materials. It was difficult to fly and construct, but proved invaluable to the fleets effort to fight the Cylons. After the Pegasus joined the fleet many new avipers were available to the Gallactica. And the war progressed from there!
Interesting. The double landing pod gravity thing makes me think of the design problems that the Rocinante from The Expanse has. In the books she is said to be able to land on her belly, so 90 degree out of her thrust gravity plane. I get the feeling the series will just have her land arse end down most likely to keep the set design simple, but that would mean a pylon landing or sticky out feet and that cannot be as stable as a belly landing. Would love to hear what you think, especially as the series moves forward.
While it could technically land on it's belly, the vessel's frame is not made for it, and on top of that, the interior of the vessel is top down. If the body had any gravity you would be walking on the walls, which is not a good idea
In the TV series I would agree and I have struggled to wrap my head around how the Roci would land on her belly and still be accommodating for her crew. In the books it does say that she lands on its belly/keel, and in fact is capable of landing on planets. I won't spoil more than that for anyone who hasn't read all the books. It might just be that the books will be the books and the TV series will be the TV series -- still interesting to think about;-)
Regarding combat landings, Galactica specifically announces when combat landings are authorized, so I would assume that at least some of the pilots do land in a more sensible manner, and that it is not standard procedure to just slam down on the flight deck. As you say, the importance of saving the pilot and jumping away takes priority in the heat of the moment.
I would really like to hear about "realistic" spaceship design. Your explanation about your personal ship designs are nice, but they are more "form over function" when they need to fit your storyline (I am referencing another of your videos, sorry). But having a lecture from you or perhaps a mini-series of Spacedock episodes describing various necessities of spaceship design from a pragmatic perspective would be really nice to watch.
Perhaps Ark ships that describe life support and long-range propulsion solutions or considerations for space-station designs. I really like your dry and information packed videos. keep up the great work!
Here is something that allways bugged me about the launch tubes from the Galactica:
The fighters are launched from the flight pods at a right angle to the ship's keel line, right?
Isn't the launch tube as seen in the launch sequences awfully long compared to the beam of the flight pod?
Apparently, this "re-imagined" BSG had a lot more "operational" details than the Glen Larson series.
@Spacedock Thank you for this video. I'm writing a BSG '04 fanfiction and I wasn't entirely sure how this worked.
As a lover of reading fanfictions, you have caught my interest like the #3 wire on a landing deck.
What would be the name of this mentioned fic, and where is it posted?
@@BikerDash I actually lost interest a while back and stopped writing it. Never posted it either. It kind of sucked TBH, so just as well. Sorry to disappoint.
W O W never has there been a better example of nite picking
hi tarvor from spacedock fans here. i just recently bought the game Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, after you mentioned that game. it is really good and i recommend the battlestar galactica mod.
also the rotation mechanism can be just the landing plate but instead of ascending/descending it just rotates around the axis. doesent require more maintenance than i lift if you ask me.
Others have pointed out that there are up/down viper launch tubes (from the still you show the Pegasus with the raptor launch tubes). I'd suggest that there are two landing decks, two maintenance decks, and a shared launch deck that is zero-g with the craft being held in place by magnetic systems (and any crews using magnetic boots). This makes the most sense as you can orient your gravity plating as necessary and don't have to reorient your craft through a complicated lift system (simple is always better in a combat ship). As for why the set of "inverted" launch tubes are blocked off is because you would not launch vipers from both decks simultaneously - it would screw with your pilots immediate post-launch flight coordination and orientation. You'd want a wing to launch in the same "position" and to be able to orient to their wingmates. More importantly, you wouldn't want the relatively "inverted" launch tubes open to space if you weren't planning on an immediate launch, just in case you're doing maintenance on a lift and might have that tube exposed to the interior of your maintenance deck. There's probably a little transit vehicle that goes between these decks that flips the crews around, or even a moving walkway where there's a zero gravity area on the deck that allows you to simply clamp onto the walkway with mag boots and ride it to the other maintenance deck through the launch deck.