Of course I want to keep the original packaging undamaged for 10 years to have the right for a warranty... Sounds like a way for them to get out of having to actually honor it
At 3:14 in video, number 8 in warranty, I think that is not for complete 10 year warranty. Only when you return product or exchange it. In EU you can return product within 14 days, no questions asked, and maybe you could exchange it if manufacturer accepts. So you should at most keep packaging for few months for those cases. If product is defective they have to honor warranty, it does not matter if you have packaging or not.
That requirement would not be valid in the Netherlands. You only need the box if you want to exchange the product. For warranty any box is fine. However finding a box to safely transport a large format screen for example can be a hassle. Therefore it might be convenient to keep it. In any case they have to honor warranty.
I was thinking *exactly* this when I saw the app! I want an open, well-documenten local API (or MQTT or something like that) or I won't even consider it.
So here in the UK I installed (I'm an electrician) an 8 panel (8x 300w) grid tied system with 3kw growatt inverter for £1278 we're limited to 3.6kw if we want to install it then notify the dno (electrical supplier) if it's above 3.6kw we have to get permission first. I'm now installing at hot water system to use most of the exported power better to use the energy at home rather than export it for half the price I pay for electricity. The payback for my system without the hot water system looks to be ~11 months. I did consider a hybrid inverter with batteries but the payback is in many years and didn't make financial sense for me at the moment.
I wish it were so simple in the United States. In the US, it is illegal to have the power supply plugged into an outlet like that. It has to be on its own circuit, wired to the circuit breaker box permanently, and properly identified. And, in the US, it is usually illegal to provide power to the grid without an agreement between you and the power company. Like you said, it gets tricky in Germany to get paid for the power you export to the grid, but in the US that is the only option. The only option is the tricky option with lots of paperwork, inspections, and a signed agreement. In the US, if you hook up like that and accidentally export power to the grid, the power company can detect it from your meter, and will give you a written warning, and then disconnect you if you continue to do so without that tricky annoying agreement.
If you don't want to mess with grid approvals you can always set up a system in "self consumption" mode. Basically you have a current clamp measuring your home's power usage and the inverter will always run at a power level slightly lower.
hate the cloud stuff, they give it to you free then you need to pay annual rate, like it wasn't expensive to begin with. I manage my own servers so run my own web interface
this system had so so so many issues in the past month that it is overpriced and used false data for example the capacity was far too high rather below 800 Wh than 980 Wh. There is a german channel that has covered all the issues over months called Der Kanal App did not work right, data shown in the app were wrong, time to adopt the output. Never forget for such an amount you get a 5 kWh rack battery which are here close to 1000€ and prices still dropping due to chinese over production and law demand in the west. 4:29 you will need a spacer on the roof cause this way will cause problems with the panels due to heat from the back. This causes hot spots but in a different mannor cause heat can put pressure on the glas and cause microcracks that are unvisible. That is the reason for the invention of Stockschrauben. I know, just temporarily installation but that is not good, so just pieces of a board to increase the distance to the metal roof.
For the 600W power drawing problem.. It could be that the Hoymiles is draining more than it should. That's because it's designed to drain ever bit of power out of the normally attached PV modules. This also makes it not easy for DIY battery systems. You could adjust the output by changing the Hoymiles limits instead of the zendure limits. Might be easier.
shame you didn;t get enough time to checkout the HA integration, that really is a key feature to make this thing usable. Also, would have loved to see if you could add your own batteries into the system with some mods, 600-700 euro for 1kwh is expensive. even taking into consideration the nice enclosure.
The 15 year warranty will more than make up for that, given they survive that long, but at a warranty statement for 15 years you would expect some quality.
hmmm, chat controlled solar sounds like an idea... You could improve sun collecting, by making the solar panels track the sun.. and by adding aluminum reflectors on each side of the panel to direct more sunlight onto the panel.
I feed nothing back to the grid in both my homesteads. I store everything. In netherlands it is just not worth it given all the changing rules and in my asian homestead i just didn't bother as there are plenty blackouts, so i store my own.
esp32 reading JSON from your cloud, where you can put solar commands in for each hour of the day. The esp uses a RTC to fetch time, and looks up what to do for that hour.. Since you can update the JSON remotely at any time, you can change what it does without having to reprogram the esp.
If this is supplying power to the grid, how do you prevent backflow if grid-side maintenance is required? I thought systems like this were required to have an automatic switch
Those things sync to the mains voltage and frequency and instantly know when the power goes out. And a system that small just cant do shit when it tries to run your whole neighborhood, so there's that too. For some reason, here in Finland those sets that you could just plug in to existing wall outlet are banned and companies that sell them have disclaimers that you need an electrician to cut of the plug and hard wire it. Same "problem" with larger inverter systems too. Search for anti-islanding or something.
The inverter measures the grid voltage before and while supplying power to the grid. Only if there is already power, it adds its own power to the grid. There are strict rules that it has to switch off instantly if grid power goes down
Only 800w return? I looked it up and I am allowed to put 3600w back in the grid per fase. I have three fases.. which is quite common in the Netherlands. Basically you can put back as much power as the wire going in can handle. There is also no limit since 2014 on how much kwh you can put back in. Why is your power company putting up such weird limits and so very low? Is the writing that crappy? Most installations have at least 6 to 8 panels, that is way more then 800w. And it makes this product useless.
I know Germany has special rules where you can install a micro system without any licenses, permits or approvals. You can just go the store, buy a system, and plug it in. You can naturally have a larger system but then it needs to be done the normal way with hardwiring, permits, and inspections.
I spent 4,000€ on two of solar hubs and four batteries and after a month of nothing but trouble I regret buying this product. It seems to please itself when it works. It occasionally follows the appointment schedule, frequently drops WiFi signal and Bluetooth does not work properly on either system. It will randomly go into standby mode despite the batteries being at half capacity and the panels in full sun. Only a reset of the systems wakes it up. Requires constant daily attention to see if it is working. The longest it has worked as it should is three consecutive days. I do NOT recommend this product. If I could get a refund and return the lot I w
what do you mean 800W limit? Who's limiting you? WHY? I have a small 4kW system, with batteries. If the battery is full and the panels produce more than the house needs, the inverter just stops the excess energy. Never heard of a 800 W limit...
If your system stops excess energy production when your house isn't using all the power then the 800w limit wouldn't apply. But your system probably needs to be hardwired.
so who forces you to work, and not be at home, yeah its you yourself who does that, tradition is a poor excuse, why do you think people are supplying any quality items/things/services for you to warrant the trade.
I'm kinda missing the calculation of how long it takes to pay for itself since that's the most important part for many people. Great video as always ofc :)
I had the same question, so I looked up on there site what the costs are with discount. So € 2800 for 1 PV Hub + 1 x 900W Battery + Inverter + 400W solar panel. Realistically with this setup you can safe a 1-2 KW of power a day. Going with a current price of 30-40 cents a KW, Means you can safe 30 to 80 cents a day. So a € 107 to 285 a year. Thus it takes about a 10 years to payback... unless the energy prices go up even more.
Predictions are hard atm. I'm anxious about the upcoming winter and will certainly evaluate the data in half a year. I have more projects in the pipeline. One aspect I didn't talk about is that you can basically double the yield of the 800W inverter by adding two panels that are only used for charging
Both the company and he has to pay taxes on all portions of the process, the video production, the donation of the system, his gain of the system, etc.
This system is very expensive and ineffective. With this money you can buy an off-grid hybrid system with a 3kw inverter, 24v 80 Ah battery and 2 solar panels of 550w each (all new)
You can never have enough battery capacity when it comes to renewable energy storage. Specially in a cloudy environment. This system looks very smart and posh.
I think you need about 5-10 kWh battery capacity and PV-Moduls . if the consumption in the evening is about 200W the power of all moduls must 10 times of this about 2000W, only 5 very good Moduls. 10 kWh battery is only for 24 hour without sun. calculate it yourselves for 7 days or for winter time without sunny days. In winter PV will never have enough capacity.
You had to send it back? They should have let you keep it, bloody cheapskates, it is odd you had to return it, reviews usually mean you get to keep the item!
Ey, Wenn ich noch in Deutschland waer, wuerden Du und ich gute Freudne sein. Deine Projekte sind cool. Ich bin auch staendig am basteln. Allein letztes Jahr habe ich ueber 25 verschiene PCBs design und geordert 🙂
Have a look at what Octopus Energy do in the UK, if there's an excess of power on the grid you can get paid to use it (charge your batteries) then later in the day you can export it back to the grid and get paid for it again!
![I'm a power hoarder now! [Oukitel P5000, Tibber]](/img/n.gif)
Of course I want to keep the original packaging undamaged for 10 years to have the right for a warranty... Sounds like a way for them to get out of having to actually honor it
I think in some countries this requirement is ineffective due to local pro-consumer laws.
In Spain packaging you can throw right away, warranty is on the product not the box
And all this hassle to only be able to produce 600W? Why even bother - what a waste of time and money
At 3:14 in video, number 8 in warranty, I think that is not for complete 10 year warranty. Only when you return product or exchange it. In EU you can return product within 14 days, no questions asked, and maybe you could exchange it if manufacturer accepts. So you should at most keep packaging for few months for those cases. If product is defective they have to honor warranty, it does not matter if you have packaging or not.
That requirement would not be valid in the Netherlands. You only need the box if you want to exchange the product. For warranty any box is fine.
However finding a box to safely transport a large format screen for example can be a hassle. Therefore it might be convenient to keep it. In any case they have to honor warranty.
Cannnot wait to learn about the Home Assistant integration. Systems to be controlled by their Apps only are a no go for me.
I was thinking *exactly* this when I saw the app! I want an open, well-documenten local API (or MQTT or something like that) or I won't even consider it.
So here in the UK I installed (I'm an electrician) an 8 panel (8x 300w) grid tied system with 3kw growatt inverter for £1278 we're limited to 3.6kw if we want to install it then notify the dno (electrical supplier) if it's above 3.6kw we have to get permission first.
I'm now installing at hot water system to use most of the exported power better to use the energy at home rather than export it for half the price I pay for electricity.
The payback for my system without the hot water system looks to be ~11 months.
I did consider a hybrid inverter with batteries but the payback is in many years and didn't make financial sense for me at the moment.
~11 months is pretty good. How much do you pay/save per kWh?
(I'm affraid we have too inexpensive electricity for a viable payback here in FI)
if this is bitluni I totally expect him to hook this thing up on diy batteries... :D we need to see it
I wish it were so simple in the United States.
In the US, it is illegal to have the power supply plugged into an outlet like that. It has to be on its own circuit, wired to the circuit breaker box permanently, and properly identified.
And, in the US, it is usually illegal to provide power to the grid without an agreement between you and the power company. Like you said, it gets tricky in Germany to get paid for the power you export to the grid, but in the US that is the only option. The only option is the tricky option with lots of paperwork, inspections, and a signed agreement. In the US, if you hook up like that and accidentally export power to the grid, the power company can detect it from your meter, and will give you a written warning, and then disconnect you if you continue to do so without that tricky annoying agreement.
If you don't want to mess with grid approvals you can always set up a system in "self consumption" mode. Basically you have a current clamp measuring your home's power usage and the inverter will always run at a power level slightly lower.
hate the cloud stuff, they give it to you free then you need to pay annual rate, like it wasn't expensive to begin with. I manage my own servers so run my own web interface
I said in your "end of lab" video that I'd be interested to see house upgrade videos.
And here we are. 😊
Thanks Bitluni.
You might try mounting the panels vertically .the reduced heat increases the efficiency . Add a space blanket reflector on floor adds more
this system had so so so many issues in the past month that it is overpriced and used false data for example the capacity was far too high rather below 800 Wh than 980 Wh.
There is a german channel that has covered all the issues over months called Der Kanal
App did not work right, data shown in the app were wrong, time to adopt the output.
Never forget for such an amount you get a 5 kWh rack battery which are here close to 1000€ and prices still dropping due to chinese over production and law demand in the west.
4:29 you will need a spacer on the roof cause this way will cause problems with the panels due to heat from the back. This causes hot spots but in a different mannor cause heat can put pressure on the glas and cause microcracks that are unvisible. That is the reason for the invention of Stockschrauben.
I know, just temporarily installation but that is not good, so just pieces of a board to increase the distance to the metal roof.
Clear and concise. Great video!
Looks great! Thanks for sharing!
For the 600W power drawing problem.. It could be that the Hoymiles is draining more than it should. That's because it's designed to drain ever bit of power out of the normally attached PV modules. This also makes it not easy for DIY battery systems.
You could adjust the output by changing the Hoymiles limits instead of the zendure limits. Might be easier.
shame you didn;t get enough time to checkout the HA integration, that really is a key feature to make this thing usable. Also, would have loved to see if you could add your own batteries into the system with some mods, 600-700 euro for 1kwh is expensive. even taking into consideration the nice enclosure.
The 15 year warranty will more than make up for that, given they survive that long, but at a warranty statement for 15 years you would expect some quality.
assuming they'll be around in 15 years. ;)
@@HuMaNiTaRiAn1All I meant to say was, if they have a 15 year warranty on it, it won't be built like a piece of crap.
hmmm, chat controlled solar sounds like an idea...
You could improve sun collecting, by making the solar panels track the sun..
and by adding aluminum reflectors on each side of the panel to direct more sunlight onto the panel.
6. Warranty non-transferable. Why, though?
Is system automatically turned off when power goes off to be safe for workers working on downed power lines?
I wondered the same thing. I thought it was a legal requirement.
Wie viele Jahre müsste das system laufen um sich zu refinanzieren?
Does this support proper standards or only their cloud and app?
I feed nothing back to the grid in both my homesteads. I store everything. In netherlands it is just not worth it given all the changing rules and in my asian homestead i just didn't bother as there are plenty blackouts, so i store my own.
Hello ! Are you use it with on grid electricity of your house Or you switch off electricity first and after you are working the system ?
It is plug and play
man here in canada its unlimited for home solar and they pay you as well when goes back into the grid.
Germany is a really backwards country in many regards. But in time they will eventually catch up.
BitLuni, Can you use IFTTT to control what the system does for different parts of the day?
esp32 reading JSON from your cloud, where you can put solar commands in for each hour of the day. The esp uses a RTC to fetch time, and looks up what to do for that hour..
Since you can update the JSON remotely at any time, you can change what it does without having to reprogram the esp.
1:04 not even pointed towards the sky?
If this is supplying power to the grid, how do you prevent backflow if grid-side maintenance is required? I thought systems like this were required to have an automatic switch
The big thing in the middle connecting everything is called a battery management system. It manages stuff like that for you
Those things sync to the mains voltage and frequency and instantly know when the power goes out. And a system that small just cant do shit when it tries to run your whole neighborhood, so there's that too. For some reason, here in Finland those sets that you could just plug in to existing wall outlet are banned and companies that sell them have disclaimers that you need an electrician to cut of the plug and hard wire it. Same "problem" with larger inverter systems too. Search for anti-islanding or something.
The inverter measures the grid voltage before and while supplying power to the grid. Only if there is already power, it adds its own power to the grid. There are strict rules that it has to switch off instantly if grid power goes down
Source ?
One question about battery: Is it safe in case of lightning strike? Won't it explode?
What a lousy company that didn't let you keep anything. I hope the pay was excellent
Only 800w return? I looked it up and I am allowed to put 3600w back in the grid per fase. I have three fases.. which is quite common in the Netherlands. Basically you can put back as much power as the wire going in can handle. There is also no limit since 2014 on how much kwh you can put back in. Why is your power company putting up such weird limits and so very low? Is the writing that crappy? Most installations have at least 6 to 8 panels, that is way more then 800w. And it makes this product useless.
I know Germany has special rules where you can install a micro system without any licenses, permits or approvals. You can just go the store, buy a system, and plug it in. You can naturally have a larger system but then it needs to be done the normal way with hardwiring, permits, and inspections.
I spent 4,000€ on two of solar hubs and four batteries and after a month of nothing but trouble I regret buying this product. It seems to please itself when it works. It occasionally follows the appointment schedule, frequently drops WiFi signal and Bluetooth does not work properly on either system. It will randomly go into standby mode despite the batteries being at half capacity and the panels in full sun. Only a reset of the systems wakes it up. Requires constant daily attention to see if it is working. The longest it has worked as it should is three consecutive days. I do NOT recommend this product. If I could get a refund and return the lot I w
what do you mean 800W limit? Who's limiting you? WHY? I have a small 4kW system, with batteries. If the battery is full and the panels produce more than the house needs, the inverter just stops the excess energy. Never heard of a 800 W limit...
If your system stops excess energy production when your house isn't using all the power then the 800w limit wouldn't apply. But your system probably needs to be hardwired.
so who forces you to work, and not be at home, yeah its you yourself who does that, tradition is a poor excuse, why do you think people are supplying any quality items/things/services for you to warrant the trade.
I'm kinda missing the calculation of how long it takes to pay for itself since that's the most important part for many people. Great video as always ofc :)
electricity ain't cheap in Germany, so I'd guess around 3 years or so, totally viable
I had the same question, so I looked up on there site what the costs are with discount. So € 2800 for 1 PV Hub + 1 x 900W Battery + Inverter + 400W solar panel. Realistically with this setup you can safe a 1-2 KW of power a day. Going with a current price of 30-40 cents a KW, Means you can safe 30 to 80 cents a day. So a € 107 to 285 a year. Thus it takes about a 10 years to payback... unless the energy prices go up even more.
@@TinusBruins 1-2kw of power on sunny days, I'd say this is viable for maybe 4-6 months. Did you account for this?
Predictions are hard atm. I'm anxious about the upcoming winter and will certainly evaluate the data in half a year.
I have more projects in the pipeline. One aspect I didn't talk about is that you can basically double the yield of the 800W inverter by adding two panels that are only used for charging
@@bitluni Appreciate the response! I'm looking forward to the follow up.
They should have let you keep it, it's not that expensive
Both the company and he has to pay taxes on all portions of the process, the video production, the donation of the system, his gain of the system, etc.
All that nonsense, that solarpower is "free", it istn free, u have to pay for that stuff - and all that wannabe solar experts forget it....
This system is very expensive and ineffective. With this money you can buy an off-grid hybrid system with a 3kw inverter, 24v 80 Ah battery and 2 solar panels of 550w each (all new)
You can never have enough battery capacity when it comes to renewable energy storage.
Specially in a cloudy environment. This system looks very smart and posh.
amazing product... i love to use it
I think you need about 5-10 kWh battery capacity and PV-Moduls . if the consumption in the evening is about 200W the power of all moduls must 10 times of this about 2000W, only 5 very good Moduls. 10 kWh battery is only for 24 hour without sun. calculate it yourselves for 7 days or for winter time without sunny days. In winter PV will never have enough capacity.
You had to send it back? They should have let you keep it, bloody cheapskates, it is odd you had to return it, reviews usually mean you get to keep the item!
Does this work in a power cut if the battery has charge? I know grid tie inverters will not.
doyou know can this be used in the u.s
Ey, Wenn ich noch in Deutschland waer, wuerden Du und ich gute Freudne sein. Deine Projekte sind cool. Ich bin auch staendig am basteln. Allein letztes Jahr habe ich ueber 25 verschiene PCBs design und geordert 🙂
Have a look at what Octopus Energy do in the UK, if there's an excess of power on the grid you can get paid to use it (charge your batteries) then later in the day you can export it back to the grid and get paid for it again!
Untill you can hook a a PT clamp to one of those it's always going to be a reactive annoyance to manage
I hope you'll be happy in your new place.
Moving is a biatch.
Zendure is a rip off. It's much easier making it yourself. Very little experience needed and you'll learn something valuable.
modern solar systems are fun, I wonder if full automation is doable
I can't wait to see you build a battery expansion for your system. 🤯
cant wait for the new uploads!
Tibber is a nice option
Very Intresting
cool, das hab ich gesucht - btw. welche Solarpanels (die Neuen) nutzt du da ?