Doctor Who: The Complete Story of 'River Song'
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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I just watched all River Song episodes in HER order and it was amazing. Highly recommend it
which order did you watch them in? As there are many episodes where she appears multiple times at different ages. A good man goes to war, The impossible Astronaut and probably others I can't remember.
OverWims I kinda skipped the parts with her as a baby as it would spoil stuff from later in the timeline. I started with Let’s Kill Hitler if that helps
@@MovieMicah what order exactly pls
@@chefychefy8749 - I've checked this countless times, and it's right. I've just started myself!
River Chronology:
28 - The Pilot
27 - Extremis
26 - The Name of the Doctor
25 - Forest of the Dead
24 - Silence in the Library
23 - The Husbands of River Song
22 - The Angels Take Manhattan
21 - Last Night
20 - The Wedding of River Song (Last Scene)
19 - Flesh and Stone
18 - The Time of Angels
17 - The Big Bang
16 - The Pandorica Opens
15 - Day of the Moon
14 - The Impossible Astronaut
13 - A Good Man Goes to War
12 - Rain Gods
11 - Bad Night
10 - Good Night
9 - First Night
8 - The Wedding of River Song
7 - Prequel to The Wedding of River Song
6 - Closing Time
5 - Let's Kill Hitler
4 - Day of the Moon
3 - The Impossible Astronaut
2 - Prequel to The Impossible Astronaut
1 - A Good Man Goes to War
I know the inclusion of The Pilot and Extremis is a little weird, but I feel she has a presence in those episodes all the same.
@@nightowl8477 Wouldn't the Pandorica Opens come right after The Wedding of River Song? Since that's where she gets the Vortex Manipulator? I might be misremembering.
"You named your daughter after your daughter..."
Welcome to Doctor Who. Enjoy your stay.
Well that’s a bit bootstrappy because where did the idea of calling her specifically melody come from
So,who really wrote Beethoven's fifth?
Nice reference
Weird.
They put her in a suit that allows no freedom, which means they didnt trust her or what?!
Seriously this Astronaut Suit makes no sense on multiple levels.
It also makes no sense she was so surprised in the Library. She should have known exactly this is 'the day'. Obviously.
Plot Holes? Likely.
There are no plotholes
It's truly tragic that River song spends 24 years with the doctor just before going off to her death and when she meets the doctor again he has no idea who she is
That's literally the whole fucking point of the character you mug
its kinda tragic that River, the child of Amy but somehow the doctor...ended up getting with the doctor. Granted she did time travel. But when they first got together, she wasn't even born yet. It seems too contrived, but story or not, she still made quite a mark in Doctor who.
the saddest part is that the one she has to spend a quarter of a century bangin every night is the gross old man lmao
capaldi is great but uh not exactly the man I'd likely choose if I were a chick lol
@@ravinraven6913she's not a child of the doctor, she's a child that was filled to the brim with time energy which is used in a similar to how the time lords gave time lords regeneration cycles, she may of had 13 or just 3 or perhaps 100, we don't know for sure as physically she was still human and we don't know how sustainable the human body is in keeping regenerations contained.
Tbh the doctor is the parent of regeneration itself
She’s the daughter of her husbands companion, the wife of her mother’s best friend, and a childhood friend of both her parents and her timeline runs in the opposite direction to the doctors.
Welcome to dr who. Enjoy your stay!
imagine being a child and regenerating into a toddlers body, that mustve been crazy
@SigmaTauri2 Yeah but this was her first regeneration and she might not known that she could regenerate
Reminds me of The Master regenerating.
During the start of the Time War, The Master was a young boy, and he agreed to start anew with The Doctor.
Lukas Berner Mättö nah she did know, when she regenerated in front of the homeless man she said “i’m dying, but it’s ok, i can fix that”
One point that is often confused is when the Centurion goes to River to ask her to join the Doctor at Demon's Run. River says she cannot go (yet). In her timeline, Demon's Run has to happen before that point when Centurion arrives to recruit her, which means this point is much later in her timeline, and the River that eventually shows up at Demon's Run was a younger version of her. This video actually gets this point right.
Weird.
They put her in a suit that allows no freedom, which means they didnt trust her or what?!
Seriously this Astronaut Suit makes no sense on multiple levels.
It also makes no sense she was so surprised in the Library. She should have known exactly this is 'the day'. Obviously.
Plot Holes? Likely.
How i hate these nausea-causing levels of Plot Holes and Nonsense.
There is literally no 'normal' series of events how this Fix Point can/should happen.
There is literaly no reason why the Doctor should let him self get shoot by the Astronaut.
Also, putting much effort into creating survival-expert River Song and then putting her into an Astronaut Suit that negates all her abilitys is
laughable and nonsensical. Stupid Silence.
I like this Fix-Point Buisness, but it's virtually impossible to execute it worse than here. Wow, impressively bad writing.
The Doctor has no reason to die but he for no reason wants to die. It's nonsensical.
And the Silence is just incompetent as heck anyways. Well, everyone is.
@@slevinchannel7589 No the worst plot hole in that episode is talking about the next episode where we see River because we know that he looks different by then but it was supposed to be a David episode!
@@sarahglover3286 How she reacts to Companions of the Doctor is also sometimes weird, isnt it?
I noticed that on multiple occasions.
@slevinchannel7589 The Silence originally envisioned Melody as becoming the perfect killing machine for the doctor but they didn't plan on her falling in love with him. So they had to make a workaround. Hence the suit. Why is she still needed if the suit is automatic? Because then River always knows that she killed the doctor, adding a whole new layer of complexity to the situation that further makes it a fixed point in time. Basically the Silence wanted his death to be the most temporally convoluted event ever, because they wanted it to be impossible for the Doctor to find a way around it. And they got very, very close.
Oh and for the library thing, River knows that a day is coming where the doctor will not know her, and at the singing towers she knows that this is the last time they will meet, but that doesnt mean she'll never see him again. She'll just never see the doctor any farther along on his timestream than at that current point. It doesn’t mean she cant run into a younger version. From her perspective the next time she sees the Doctor it'll be 11 or maybe even a post-'Silence in the Library' 10. She doesnt know that the literal next time she sees him will be the end. Hence why she's taken by surprise in that episode. She's coming off of the 24 years excited to get into a scrape with a younger Doctor who, while not the one she spent all that time with, still knows her. But 10 doesn't.
For those who want to watch the episodes in River’s order, I thoroughly recommend it. Her story is so much more heartbreaking from her perspective. This is the order that they used in the Doctor Who Confidential episode for The Wedding of River Song, (I’ve added the other episode that have come out since 2011):
1. A Good Man Goes to War
2. The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon
3. Let’s Kill Hitler
4. Closing Time
5. The Wedding of River Song
6. First Night/Last Night
7. First Night/Last Night (River from 5 years later)
8. A Good Man Goes to War (just after the 1814 Frost Fair)
9. A Good Man Goes to War (revealing her identity)
10. The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon
11. Bad Night/Good Night (River is offscreen in these ones)
12. The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang
13. The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone
14. The Wedding of River Song
15. Rain Gods
16. Last Night
17. The Angels Take Manhattan
18. The Husbands of River Song
19. Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead
20. The Name of the Doctor
...Yeah BUT WHY.
WHY is her timeline exactly in the opposite direction??
Is that just something that happens? What's the reason?!
Slevin Channel, it’s because River and the Doctor are both time travellers. Time travel allows people to meet out of sequence because they are both going in opposite directions. Hence they would never meet in the right order. Their lives are intertwined in a complex web. It’s also based on the wonderful novel called The Time Traveller’s Wife and Moffat uses it to create a modern Greek tragedy.
@@slevinchannel7589 it isn't exactly in the opposite direction. Just jumbled up. Think about it, when you're a time traveler, and the other person is too, how likely is it that you'll meet in the perfect linear order?
@@atharvadeshpande6907 Whatever.
I have heavier stuff on my mind.
Did you knew that YT maybe blocking your comments from being seen now, when they contain ANY Links?! Isnt that crazy?
I dont know the specifics myself, but even if it only affects some (random?) people, it's still crazy.
For example, tell me, can you see a link right here?:
th-cam.com/video/cQVHdTzFti0/w-d-xo.html
Im just commenting as a reminder
Did you know the oldest we see river is in the name of the doctor.
Also i think river is just a complete bootstrap paradox. Name given from herself, brought her parents together to make herself be born, she started to love the doctor because she loved the doctor when she’s older, got the diary because the doctor saw her have it in the future
Yeah very confusing but great! Really stretches the mind.
One of the most complicated Space-time events - River Song
I’m still struggling to understand even after this video 😂
How i hate these nausea-causing levels of Plot Holes and Nonsense.
There is literally no 'normal' series of events how this Fix Point can/should happen.
There is literaly no reason why the Doctor should let him self get shoot by the Astronaut.
Also, putting much effort into creating survival-expert River Song and then putting her into an Astronaut Suit that negates all her abilitys is
laughable and nonsensical. Stupid Silence.
I like this Fix-Point Buisness, but it's virtually impossible to execute it worse than here. Wow, impressively bad writing.
The Doctor has no reason to die but he for no reason wants to die. It's nonsensical.
And the Silence is just incompetent as heck anyways. Well, everyone is.
One of? THE!
“Amy and Rorys daughter is the reason Amy had her daughter”
this is doctor who.
Makes plenty of sense
12th Doctor: "Hello sweetie " Dr Who Fans: WEEPING
...Yeah BUT WHY.
WHY is her timeline exactly in the opposite direction??
Is that just something that happens? What's the reason?!
@@slevinchannel7589 they are both time travelers they never met in the right order
RIP Mel:
Shot by accident by Hitler.
Welcome to Doctor Who
She became the woman she was destined to become - River Song.
And then hello again Mel who after a few decades/centuries goes by River Song and then RIP again as she becomes a force ghost because the force is strong with this one
River: How long does a night last on durillium?
12th: 24 years
River: I hate you
12th: no you don’t
River is the most amazing complex intriguing beautiful and physical companion, on doctor who she is miles miles better than Clara and she’s Amy’s daughter and dare I say it she’s a much much much much better character than the 13th doctor she’s just a mess
What do you mean by "beautiful and physical companion"?
Idk about better than all the rest. I especially wouldn't out the other companions or the 13th doctor down. But, River is definitely one of my favorites!
I agree with most but cmon dude River is beautiful but Clara is hands down the most beautiful one. A birch surely, but a beautiful one.
Derek Walter she’s very physical as in she gets her hands dirty
Bret Lanier ugh Clara is ugh
I didn't realize when river meets clara she was dead 😢
Yea I think that was one of the most confusing ones 😂
Yes. It's one of the last of his series. It's great.
I've been in love with River since the first time I heard her say "Hello Sweetie."
Imagine spending a lifetime with your spouse, then time traveling back to your spouse’s life before they ever met you. Then sacrificing yourself to tell your young spouse that you will have a great time eventually, but it ends now. 😭😭😭
"It died" River Song when asked what happened to the Dalek. (she was carrying a gun). 😂
Weird.
They put her in a suit that allows no freedom, which means they didnt trust her or what?!
Seriously this Astronaut Suit makes no sense on multiple levels.
It also makes no sense she was so surprised in the Library. She should have known exactly this is 'the day'. Obviously.
Plot Holes? Likely.
How i hate these nausea-causing levels of Plot Holes and Nonsense.
There is literally no 'normal' series of events how this Fix Point can/should happen.
There is literaly no reason why the Doctor should let him self get shoot by the Astronaut.
Also, putting much effort into creating survival-expert River Song and then putting her into an Astronaut Suit that negates all her abilitys is
laughable and nonsensical. Stupid Silence.
I like this Fix-Point Buisness, but it's virtually impossible to execute it worse than here. Wow, impressively bad writing.
The Doctor has no reason to die but he for no reason wants to die. It's nonsensical.
And the Silence is just incompetent as heck anyways. Well, everyone is.
In the library, Dr Moon is actually The Doctor. At the end of his life his final journey was go back in time and enter the Library, thus spending eternity with River.
Oh damn I thought that was just some crazy cute fan theory but it's on the Dr Moon wiki page, a direct quote from Davies talking about Moffat!
wow! simply fantastic.
@@deadeyedfae yeah but they wrote it out of the script so now it is just a fan theory
@@stevemorganexperience7833 in my opinion, even though it was removed from the script, it's still Canon. It's a really nice sentiment and the idea that the two of them finally get the (somewhat) happy ending they deserve is nice.
(2022 here) after the BS the flux caused i doubt they would officially make Dr. Moon as the doctor's incarnation anytime soon
I hope and pray that we will never *NOT* see River Song! You did an *excellent* job on her timeline! Thank you. I do not have the audiobooks so you filled in a lot for me. I actually teared up on your re-cap of a couple of the episodes. The one where Amy left the 11th Doctor (that still gets me) and when the 12th Doctor revealed that a night was actually 24 years. I bawled like a baby during those 2 episodes!!! 😭😭😭
Awww!! To he honest thats why I like to use the music, it puts you back into that moment!
I was SO hoping for a bit of physical affection at the end of that episode but it was well done without it. Prob. would have ruined it actually.
@@thewhoaddicts Weird.
They put her in a suit that allows no freedom, which means they didnt trust her or what?!
Seriously this Astronaut Suit makes no sense on multiple levels.
It also makes no sense she was so surprised in the Library. She should have known exactly this is 'the day'. Obviously.
Plot Holes? Likely.
@@slevinchannel7589 I think she was feigning surprise in The Library. She's done it all her life, pretending not to know stuff. Pretending she didn't know she was the astronaut in The Impossible Astronaut, that she was Amy and Rory's kid, it's not impossible to say she was pretending not to know her story would end on this adventure.
Also, she had no idea HOW it would end. She knew after The Library the Diary would be full, but she didn't know if she'd be eaten by the Vashta Nerada, or if she died by other means, or how it ended in the episode where she uploaded herself into the Data Core to help save everyone in it. So she could still feel genuine surprise
In my opinion “melody pond “ is one of the best soundtracks in the whole of Doctor who , Murray gold really did the 11th doctors era with music good
Murray Gold did all of them good. Peter's era also has brilliant music. The Shepherd's Boy, A good man?, Clara?, etc
river met jack on her final night with the doctor the night that lasted 24 years she just had to pop out for a bit
Grammar though??
How i hate these nausea-causing levels of Plot Holes and Nonsense.
There is literally no 'normal' series of events how this Fix Point can/should happen.
There is literaly no reason why the Doctor should let him self get shoot by the Astronaut.
Also, putting much effort into creating survival-expert River Song and then putting her into an Astronaut Suit that negates all her abilitys is
laughable and nonsensical. Stupid Silence.
I like this Fix-Point Buisness, but it's virtually impossible to execute it worse than here. Wow, impressively bad writing.
The Doctor has no reason to die but he for no reason wants to die. It's nonsensical.
And the Silence is just incompetent as heck anyways. Well, everyone is.
There is one time where she says to the 12th Doctor that he reminded her of her second wife. It's possible that she had married a lot of people, or that she meets one of the doctor's future female incarnations and considers her to be a new spouse.
Big Finish just announced a series of 3 Tenth Doctor/River Song audios today
I'm excited, since we've always known from dialoge in "The Time of The Angels" that 10 has met River multiple times after the Library. The picnic at Asgard mentioned in the Library was also with 10, probably.
Mr stark?
I love how the last two chronological events in River's life juxtapose each other.
She spends a 24 year night with the 12th Doctor, the one who knows her the most, and then leaves for her final adventure with the 10th Doctor, the one who doesn't know who she is.
Even the lengths of the two events are a mirror. She, as I mentioned, sepnt 24 years with 12, and barely spent a day with 10.
One major problem, "Lies in Ruins" definitely comes after The Wedding of River Song, as she mentions that she got married on top of a pyramid in it. This would put it alongside The Diary of River Song.
'Lies in ruins' was referenced at that point, not because that's when it takes place in her timeline (she was 'Professor Song' rather than 'Doctor' so it happened fairly late in her timeline anyway), but because in it Benny says that River was her most annoying pupil. Basically it was referenced because it referenced the point in her timeline that was being talked about, not happening at that point. If that makes any sense. Also I realise I might have misunderstood what you were saying, so I'm sorry if that's the case (/gen).
Or, in short, Moffat is a bleeding genius.
Steven Moffat: "Hated, Adored but never Ignored"
And he set it up before he was even running the show
How i hate these nausea-causing levels of Plot Holes and Nonsense.
There is literally no 'normal' series of events how this Fix Point can/should happen.
There is literaly no reason why the Doctor should let him self get shoot by the Astronaut.
Also, putting much effort into creating survival-expert River Song and then putting her into an Astronaut Suit that negates all her abilitys is
laughable and nonsensical. Stupid Silence.
I like this Fix-Point Buisness, but it's virtually impossible to execute it worse than here. Wow, impressively bad writing.
The Doctor has no reason to die but he for no reason wants to die. It's nonsensical.
And the Silence is just incompetent as heck anyways. Well, everyone is.
@@slevinchannel7589 it's okay. You don't understand the plot. Doesn't mean it's lazy or bad. Either way, what ever happened, it had to happen, which is why Moffat is a genius and it's all explained. One day you'll understand.
@@cja5612 precisely, and I belong to the "adored" group.
I love the beginning of the conception of River Song, it hilarious.
river states that she was pardoned a long time ago in one episode so I don't think she completed her full prison sentence
Yea he says that in the video. She got pardoned because all proof of existence of the man she killed was wiped out
The point of completing her sentence is that, her obvious absences aside, she abided by the sentence until she received her pardon.
...Yeah BUT WHY.
WHY is her timeline exactly in the opposite direction??
Is that just something that happens? What's the reason?!
Grammar though?
River already had the vortex manipulator at Demon's run, so she must have went to Demon's Run after the Pandorica Opens.
Isn't the name "River Song" a reverse pun of the name "Melody Pond" ?
River = Pond = Body of water. Song = Melody. Reverse the name orders to "Pond Melody" and you can switch the words with their equivalents "River Song".
You noticed that thanks
River says exactly that to Amy and Rory in the scene when she reveals she is their daughter. It's written on a leaf or something.
As much as I love River Song - and I do mean LOVE! I told my BF I would turn hetero and leave him for River Song LOL- her story has ended. I think it would be an insult to how epic her story was if they tried to cram her in again. Besides, one of the best and most bittersweet things about River is that for us the audience ( just like the Doctor) the more we got to know and love her the more we reminded that our 1st interaction with her was her death. Her whole story was a tour de force that I doubt will ever be topped by another companion's story.
...Yeah BUT WHY.
WHY is her timeline exactly in the opposite direction??
Is that just something that happens? What's the reason?!
@@slevinchannel7589 Ultimately the reason why is because the writers wrote it that way. Within the story it just one of those weird things that happen, one could call it fate I guess.
.
If you think of it, no matter who's perspective you start from, when they 1st met the other, that person knew all about them and had all these experiences with them. So after that you could think of them being 'locked by causality' to always be moving in opposite directions through time relative to each other.
.
There really is a romantic aspect to it in that whole star crossed Romeo and Juliet sorta way. Just like River says, when she notices the doctor say it is their 1st kiss she then knows that it is their last. All the romance and affection she remembers has ended. Every time she sees him, he knows her less and she knows him more.
.
But it also the same from The Doctor's POV. The very time he mets her she ends up dying and being saved to the library. So that is always looming over his head possibly why he tries to avoid her while really liking her (possibly loving her in some alien way).
.
Blah blah blah..sorry I tend to go into way too much detail when i type. To answer your question why I'd say because they were 'causality-bound' for lack of a better term.
@@Antifag1977 So it really is some weird fate with no reason?
And we just dont know if that happens or would happen to other people?
Well, that's kinda bad writing if you ask me, but ok. Fine.
Dont worry, big comments are kinda hard to read but I am a fast typer and fast reader. Both on high, high levels.
So i am personally more worried about writing too much than that someone else makes this mistake. So dont worry.
How i hate these nausea-causing levels of Plot Holes and Nonsense.
There is literally no 'normal' series of events how this Fix Point can/should happen.
There is literaly no reason why the Doctor should let him self get shoot by the Astronaut.
Also, putting much effort into creating survival-expert River Song and then putting her into an Astronaut Suit that negates all her abilitys is
laughable and nonsensical. Stupid Silence.
I like this Fix-Point Buisness, but it's virtually impossible to execute it worse than here. Wow, impressively bad writing.
The Doctor has no reason to die but he for no reason wants to die. It's nonsensical.
And the Silence is just incompetent as heck anyways. Well, everyone is.
@@slevinchannel7589 It is foolish to apply real world logic and physics to a sci fi show about a shape shifting immortal alien traveling through time and space in a machine disquised as a 1960's English police call box.
.
Fiction, especially sci fi, is like a tapestry. No matter how well it is made there are always going to be at least a few loose threads. The trick for the audience is to enjoy the tapestry without pulling on those threads and unraveling the whole thing.
.
Or to paraphrase 12 - He's the doctor - just accept it.
imagine an episode with river and missy tho.
There's an audio story by Big Finish where River meets Missy & all the rest of the Master's regenerations.
That would be too powerful
I'd just like to point out that Mels was absolutely not the only person Amy told about the Raggedy Doctor, she told pretty much everyone she knew in town. Mels was just her primary confidant when discussing the doctor as real rather than a character.
"She somehow found her way back to Leadworth..."
That's the big question for me: how did little Melody Pond, after her first regeneration, find her way from NYC back to Britain, and when? I think that's a Doctor Who episode yet to be filmed.
How i hate these nausea-causing levels of Plot Holes and Nonsense.
There is literally no 'normal' series of events how this Fix Point can/should happen.
There is literaly no reason why the Doctor should let him self get shoot by the Astronaut.
Also, putting much effort into creating survival-expert River Song and then putting her into an Astronaut Suit that negates all her abilitys is
laughable and nonsensical. Stupid Silence.
I like this Fix-Point Buisness, but it's virtually impossible to execute it worse than here. Wow, impressively bad writing.
The Doctor has no reason to die but he for no reason wants to die. It's nonsensical.
And the Silence is just incompetent as heck anyways. Well, everyone is.
No sean tan dramáticos ,solo usen un poco la imaginación, simple , river murió "" a los 10 años en 1970 , y después volvió a morir "" en 1990 , por eso tenía la misma edad de sus padres , ya los había buscado por lo que sabía en el orfanato , solo debió acercarse ( lo único que me preguntó es : dónde estában sus padres adoptivos ?) Cada que se metía en problemas...o otra vez no tenía...
Okay so I could be wrong about this, and this is just how I personally explain it to myself to make this part of River's timeline make sense, so don't take this too seriously.
So what I think is that she lived the 20-ish years between 1969 and when she found her parents in 1990 (idk the specific year but eh, for arguments sake I'm gonna say 1990). She regenerated in 1969/70, and after regenerating she consciously chose not to age (as suggested she can do in 'Let's kill Hitler'), or at least not age as fast as a human normally would. This meant even after spending 20-ish years looking for her parents, she still appeared the same age as her parents, even though she was actually around 20 years older than them, even then. This idea is kind of backed up in the Diary of River Song (big finish) story 'The Web of Time' (6x2). In the story she finds a 16 year old girl on the streets. She says, as someone who lived on the streets, she knows that when you do live on the streets you grow up much faster. This would seem odd given that (if you discard my theory/headcannon) River was only on the streets for 6 months. Yes I know that she was a kid at the time so she would've had to grow up even faster and maybe you could say that it's comparable, at a stretch. But in the story, River literally points a gun at the 16 year old and *knows* that she would be able to handle it. I personally think this shows that River was on the streets for longer than 6 months. Perhaps not the 20-ish years that I've suggested, but certainly for longer than Doctor Who directly shows.
A really sad thing about this theory that always gets me when I think about it too hard, is that in this version of events, there are literally only two times where River is younger than her parents; when she's born, and when they see her in 1969 (the child version of her I mean).
Again this is just my personal theory/headcannon, but I personally think it fits pretty well (but feel free to make any criticisms).
the story actually starts in "The Doctor's Wife " after the Tardis ( in Idris' body ) realizes what physical interaction means and how badly the Doctor misses other time lords she sets about making him one .. not just "any" one tho but the one she thought would make the perfect wife for him and I believe she succeeded
Yeah that would make perfect sense!! 👍👍👍
I want a Blu ray release of all her episodes.
How i hate these nausea-causing levels of Plot Holes and Nonsense.
There is literally no 'normal' series of events how this Fix Point can/should happen.
There is literaly no reason why the Doctor should let him self get shoot by the Astronaut.
Also, putting much effort into creating survival-expert River Song and then putting her into an Astronaut Suit that negates all her abilitys is
laughable and nonsensical. Stupid Silence.
I like this Fix-Point Buisness, but it's virtually impossible to execute it worse than here. Wow, impressively bad writing.
The Doctor has no reason to die but he for no reason wants to die. It's nonsensical.
And the Silence is just incompetent as heck anyways. Well, everyone is.
@@slevinchannel7589 But it's fun to watch the nonsense sometimes.
@@slevinchannel7589 Did you not hear about the fixed point in time thing ? The doctor wanted to be shot because if it didn't happen the universe would be destroyed (which happened)
River was the best weapon against the doctor because she would become his lover, rendering the doctor unable to stop her and his death
@@maxenswlfr1877 Heard about it and makes me comment 'This makes no sense whatsoever and fans dont notice it (Maxens Wlfr also...)'
@@slevinchannel7589 I understand these words separately but not together
And it does make sense in the cannon of the show, the doctor not being able to change painful events because of time rules (like the Waters of Mars where he understands that what must happen will happen any way)
This is such an amazing description of her timeline. Absolutely loved it and she is my favorite character on Doctor Who. Always had wondered in what order her life came in while watching this show.
You have to give credit to Steven Moffat, who created a character with a back to front time line. In Series 4, Steven knew fairly sure he would take over as showrunner as RTD had mentioned leaving and so he planted the seed of the River Song story and completed it perfectly.
6:14, Amy and Rory created the crop circle message to contact the Doctor!
then river drove through it
@@Tsukiakari-qb3tk Well, rivers usually run through something.
This was so good! If you take requests, would you please do one that's a side by side of the doctor/river with River's timeline explaining what the doctor knew vs what river knew about each other at that point in their own timeline. Comparing the two time lines so you can what they knew about each other, respectively, during their major interactions would be so great!
We still don't know how River went from a toddler in the 1960s in America, to a grade-schooler in her parents' home town in the 1990s. Well, I think I know how it could have happened....
She got a lift.
From River Song.
We've seen several multi-Doctor episodes, and a multi-Master episode, why not a multi-River episode? If an older River were present, it would explain why we've never heard from River how she got there - the time lines were out if synch and she couldn't retain the memory of what happened, same reason Davison's Doctor didn't remember what happened to his past selves in the Death Zone until he got there and lived through it.
Alex Kingston has said she'd *love* to play River getting to meet her wife. Wouldn't this make a great way to do it? You could hire the girl who played Schoolgirl Mels, she'd be able to play Mels and the actress having aged wouldn't be a problem like the adult Mels would be, and there could be *any* regeneration(s) between Orphanage Melody regenerating in the USA and Gradeschooler Mels showing up in her parents' classes. Could even set up a River/Melody incarnation who could show up in future Big Finish productions!
River song: the person who grew up, went back in time, and was put in a spacesuit and encountered her parents, escaped, went home, regenerated, became friends with her parents who named her after herself, then married her parents best friend, then killed him while she watched beside her parents who were pregnant with her....
Such an underrated comment! 😄
God I love this show so much...
I’m always confused about her! Thanks for this video
...before river faded away for the last time, never to see the doctor again...
...That was until the fifteenth doctor found their self once again in the library, where the master was trying to hack into the data of the library, so he could know all the knowledge in the universe. The Master was successful in this move, but he found that he had reversed the process of River and her friends' consciousness from being uploaded by accident. Once again, the doctor and river were reunited.
This needs to happen!
@@cool-ishcat3247 except her physical body died. Theirs may have went into the computer with them, but she left hers behind, when she donated her memory for CAL. It would've decayed a long time ago, depending where in time we are, during the Master's invasion
Plus, it seems implied that she can't simply have her mind returned to her physical body, anyway. Because, if she could, that'd likely be the first thing the doctor did, as soon as the others were able to return to the real world.
You know what's silly it's pretty simple to bring river back to life since the TARDIS can do anything ask it to make a ganger or flesh body and put rivers conscious into the body
Weird.
They put her in a suit that allows no freedom, which means they didnt trust her or what?!
Seriously this Astronaut Suit makes no sense on multiple levels.
It also makes no sense she was so surprised in the Library. She should have known exactly this is 'the day'. Obviously.
Plot Holes? Likely.
There are quite a few new River scenes in The Day of the Doctor novelisation. Most notably with Ten.
I love the scene in the bath!
And now 3 audio adventures in Nov 2020!!!!
This WONDERFUL!!! River is my absolute favourite "Doctor Who" character! This is a good chrono!ogy; I wish you'd made it before I made mine. 😁 I agree that River's story isn't over and I hope to see her on the show again. Until that time, there are Big Finish dramas and fan fiction, both of which I've only listened to and read a fraction of. Again, great job!!! 💋
In Silence of the Library, she says that the doctor is "the youngest she has ever seen him"
If she had adventures with earlier doctors, how come they trusted her, and also how come the 10th was the youngest she had seen?
When she says that he is the youngest she has ever seen him it's generally assumed that this is the youngest she has ever seen a doctor who should also know her. River knows that no doctors before ten know who she is so she doesn't count them. What she means is that this is the youngest she has seen the tenth doctor which means that this is the youngest she has ever seen a doctor who should know who she is.
In the Day of the Doctor novelization, Moffat inserts a time when she has indeed met the 10th Doctor. At that time, the 10th Doctor knows who she is because it's later in his timeline. I won't give you any spoilers in case you want to read it.
Also she claims she had pics of all his faces so she should've known off the rip that 10 wouldn't have known her yet she acted to surprised when he didn't.
@@bretlanier2304 She had adventures with 10 (later in his POV) when she was younger so she genuinely thought 10 would know her in the Library. Sadly for her, this wasn't the case
Never enough of River Song
lol the episode that River was conceived in was "the big bang" that is so River!
I didnt even think of that 😂
On the ladder of the bunk beds, they didn't waste any time! Lol
THIS was THE BEST description/explanation of River Song Ever. Not easy to do! Watching Any episode of Dr. Who, is a treat....But....watching it from the Very beginning and in order lets you appreciate their inside jokes and many other subtle insights from other timelines. I'm always dazzled and impressed by the writers who's brains have somehow managed to not be scrambled by this Amazing and Long Lasting series.....which always seems to get me crying at some point in every episode. (: Once again, Fantastic Job putting this together!
I don’t understand the bit in the Name Of The Doctor when she says she’s still linked to Clare. And then she says Spoilers. Clara is still alive flying around in that Diner. So River too?
I think the spoilers is just Clara survived going into the timeline!
That's not saying that River was connected to Clara indefinitely; rather, that she was still connected to her at that particular nexus-moment in time (in the Tardis with the Doctor, while his life-thread was emanating in The Name of the Doctor) -- if Clara were dead at that moment, River wouldn't still be telepathically "present" with the Doctor. That was what River was saying. (The "spoilers" part was that Clara was still alive at the "bottom" of the nexus timeline, so could still be rescued by the Doctor.)
@@tideoftime yeah but that anti-climax and i like to think it meant something more
@@mrsamuelwatson12 ? (Do you want to re-phrase that more clearly? ;) )
River became a Time Lord independently, thanks to her conception while in the time vortex. So...here's my crackpot theory / headcanon: River Song is the first Time Lord. Sometime during the 24 year night on Darillium, the Doctor and River have a child who will go on (way back in time) to settle on Gallifrey. That would make the Doctor his own ancient ancestor. You know, kind of like how Fry from Futurama finds out he is his own grandfather 😂
Oh yes, let's take advice on not changing history from Mr. I am my own grandpa.
😂😂
"The furies" is after Manhattan but before darrillium
Well, that cleared up a lot of little things I missed! Thanks! Now I’ll go back and watch it all again.
Her timeline is Jeremy Bearimy
I hope we still see more of River Song
Thank you!! For the most part the audio do seem to fit into the pocket you’ve picked, but a nightmare to navigate! Well done!
Yeah the audios were Impossible! I tried to source any info for it but there wasnt anythingA
River song, captain jack, and jackie tyler. oh how interesting a cover that is.
I love River Song so much.
Have you ever tried to watch all of Rivers episodes in the right order (I do it based on the video of the timeline of River Song!)!
River Song is baby's first Faction Paradox
I wonder if there is a way to consider that still canon. Gallifrey doesn’t have good luck if after the War in Heaven the Time War happened immediately afterwards.
@@crimsondynamo615 - some say it's the same war.
Wonderful summary! :D River's timeline truly is a tricky one to describe and you've done a fab job! :) I wonder if she'll ever return (it may be even more timey wimey :o) and perhaps this time we'll meet Jim the Fish on screen :D
Grew up in the 90's and loved going to my library to rent out classic episodes on VHS, then enjoying Nu-Who. I drifted off during the Capaldi seasons, not because of him as an actor, but the writing being a poor shadow, but this video- this is where I'd send someone who asked why I love Doctor Who. The Doctor and River Song, what a fantastic and moving cross series storyline. Bravo sir, cracking job in summing it up.
Damn River's conception really gives a whole new meaning to "The Big Bang"
I honestly think we're definitely going to get more of River in the coming years. Hopefully we'll see her in the 60th anniversary
River's great mate but her story has ended beautifully so I don't want slander on her name in 2023
I don't think we will to be honest, she's my fave character out of everything ever but Steven Moffat wasn't even going to do the Husbands of River Song, he was persuaded to do that by someone else, RTD iirc. And I think that after seeing her post-death in The Name of the Doctor, and then seeing her final night with the Doctor on Darillium, it wouldn't make that much sense to bring her back into the TV show other than *maybe* for a very brief one-scene job in a Christmas special or something.
No I want to see more Melody we have no proof that Melody 1 regenerated into Mels especially as if we have no proof she had a time machine there's atleast 10 years missing!!
21:26. Moffat really shot himself in the foot here. A 24 year long night, and River not realizing meeting Tennant would be her last time? Was a partial mind wipe used?
What? There's some factors as to why she wouldn't know.
1. She was in denial for most of the Library 2 parter, she wasn't emotionally ready to accept the truth until the stakes were so high she would have to sacrifice herself to save 10, many others and preserve her existence for the Doctor.
2. You're looking into the night too much, a 24 year night is just unique and in THORS she said she was worried and the Doctor said she shouldn't.
@@cja5612 River practically knows the Towers are part of her lore, and when she confronts 12 claiming "time can be rewritten" he almost quotes her from Forest.
The 12th Doctor would not have told her definitely that she was correct about the the stories she'd read. I think it's reasonable to assume that she would have hope the stories are not true, and send for him not only to help her, but prove they weren't true. I can only imagine her joy at discovering the Doctor had come when she called, only to have him not know her. Of course, she would have kept her cool demeanor until she was forced to confront the facts of the situation, then she did let her guard down and express her feelings of confusion. This is mostly my head canon, so take that as you will, lol.
@@vanillamc1 We're talking about Moffat. Same man people grumbled about his inability to let a companion (Clara) die and stay dead.
Zvi mur People have a variety of views about Moffat and that’s okay. I have a couple friends who can’t watch his era at all. I’m good with it, to each is own. I just don’t happen to share most of their views, as I’m pretty forgiving when it comes to entertainment in general. I like his writing, flaws and all.
The last time river met the doctor was the first time the doctor met river
Until river songs diary but let’s not talk about that
No, the last time River (or at least her consciousness) met the doctor was in Name of the Doctor as that was her as a data ghost from the library
To do not mention he sad this thing is
For anyone who likes Doctor Who, watch all of the episodes with River Song in them from the last episode to the very first one to watch it from her perspective.
If there's an adventure with River , Captain Jack AND Jackie Tyler I want to listen to it!
There isn't there's an adventure with River and Jack and an adventure with Jackie and Jack
The one thing I wish they did different with her is to make their meetings random, so not in reverse order but one day she knows everything about him and the next she would be nearly as clueless as he was.
But that *is* (at least partly) what happened. (A number of viewers mistakenly take as gospel River's noting in "The Impossible Astronaut" that she and the Doctor live "back to front"... but we, as the viewing audience, know factually that that *isn't* the case, but rather what River at that point in her timeline _mistakenly_ believed. We, however, know that their encounters *aren't* back-to-front, but generally more random with _some_ instances favoring one side more than the other.) River's knowledge of what, exactly, was going on is less so then more so then less so in a number of scenes relative to certain episodes.
There's also 3 new Tennant & River due in November 2020 By Big Finish!
You missed the bit she said at the end , it hints she’s coming back
Plot twist: On Darillium, the planet rotates around the sun once every 24 hours. So 24 years on Darilliun is 24 days.
You know what's silly it's pretty simple to bring river back to life since the TARDIS can do anything ask it to make a ganger or flesh body and put rivers conscious into the body
I love River! Great try on her timeline! Love her on Big Finish! Thanks!
Remember the end is just another beginning to another story and that story will end to eventually.
They should have left Dr.Who alone in regards to Jodi, and Alex should have gotten her own River Song series.
I would have watched the shit out of that.
River: How many bootstrap paradoxes do you have?
Fry: 1, maybe 2
River: You are like a little baby
I've not listened to any of the audio adventures, but I can imagine there would be so much flirting between River and Captain Jack 😂
River... mother of the timeless children.
So River is allegedly the Doctor's mum. Damn Chibnall messed up then
@dr103did you mean when?
How? River is the Doctor's wife not mother!
That Amy and Rory staring into the camera while you explained the birds and the bees was hysterical
I would love to see a video covering the chronology from The Doctor's perspective, presumably starting from Ten's encounter with her in the library.
4:20 Technically we don't know for sure she went straight from Melody 1 to Mels there could be another regeneration inbetween, I've always hoped there is so we can see more of her earlier life!
Also there's the missing 20 years there if she didn't have a time machine also she was in New York where her parents lived thier final years why did they not look for her or did her inbetween regeneration find them!
There's a small novelization story of her changing into Mels & fighting two aliens that wanted her regen powers. She kills them I think. Look up on Google for Fandom, or TARDIS BLUE Network, or TARDISWiki.
@@LisaGates64 Can't find it but since writing this I've done more thinking and research and this is at the latest 1970 and Mel's says she became a toddler in New York but then says took her years to find Amy and Rory but if she took years to find them then wouldn't she be older than them especially seen as Amy was born in 1989 that leaves nearly 20 years missing!! She didn't have any time machine at that point!
Can you explain how 10ish year old Melody 1 regenerated into a toddler in New York in 1969 but grew up with Amy and Rory who in the 80's where's her time machine!?
I mean her body does age slower as she's a Time Lord
She may have regenareted in between??
@@stephjovi Yes that's what I hope! I've always said there could be a regeneration there so I would count this maths as proof!
It would make more sense if she lived an adult life in between 1969 Melody and 1990s Mels. She could have moved to England for school or work, and died/regenerated into Mels. Being adopted as a homeless/runaway/abandoned child would also help explain why she spent her childhood with Amy always in trouble.
@@tbeller80 Yeah so do you think it's a possible future storyline meeting this Melody?
I just have two words, Nice Job!!
Thank you!
Damn it man, this is an outstanding reorganised walkthrough of her. Well done and thanks!
this is so incredibly helpful because i always get so confused trying to think about it
I love these, can’t wait for more
The problem is that the last time we see River from the Doctor's Perspective, she doesn't recognize him because she is adamantly aware that there could only be 12 regenerations, and by 11's time, he had spent them all. The only hole you can plug her into without a mindwipe gimmick or the future Doctor not introducing his or her self, is between Derillium and The Library, and that is a finite gap. If I remember, she was already planning the Library Expedition even then
They didn't even show the scene with Amy leaving the Doctor and I still wanted to cry 😭
I’d like to see a Sarah Jane version of this, including classic who, modern who, big finish and the Sarah Jane adventures.
The story of sarah is in the works dont worry :) -L
I've always wondered the timeline of the vortex manipulator.
I asked for that to be one when they were doing Jack as she does appear to have his but what happens after the library and how late on in his timeline does he lose it!?
There are so many SciFi ways to bring her back since her mind is saved on a computer idk why they don't bring her back. Even if it's a new actor they could hand wave that easily enough
Only if Moffat is the one that writes it, i don't think I want the new writer to mess with her story
Boo no new actress!
"When a good man goes to war"... We watched this episode a few weeks after my son was born. I shed tears over and over again.
Brilliant 🌈🍂🍃. River Song is by far my favourite thread in the Dr Who series.
This is the best overview I've seen, though I am very glad her love story wasn't muddied by having her return in recent seasons. It would gut their last night together.
Anyone else think it would've been great for Whitaker's Doctor to have visited the library to visit River?
You need a white board and some crayons
Thank you! I have been trying to figure this out for years.