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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ย. 2023
- The rise and fall of the Spanish Empire presents a multifaceted narrative that showcases its ascension to power and eventual decline. Emerging as a dominant global force in the late 15th century through exploration, conquest, and colonization led by figures like Christopher Columbus and Hernán Cortés, Spain established its supremacy across the Americas, Europe, Africa, and Asia. This dominance encompassed trade, cultural exchange, and vast territories. However, overextension, conflicts, economic instability, and the emergence of rival powers played pivotal roles in its gradual deterioration. Here we explore what if Portugal and Spain united in 1498 with Miguel da Paz. Thus forming the Iberian Union. What if the Iberian Union survived.
#history #alternatehistory #map #spain #portugal #animated #ck3 #eu4 #hoi4 #alternatehistoryhub #possiblehistory #invicta #historymatters
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Do you like the new map style? I’m not sure if I should switch to something else
Yes, It is really good, realistic, and visually pleasing keep it up man, love the work ♥️
It was beautiful I hope it sticks man and I can’t wait for part 2 I love this scenario 🙏🙏
Absolutely amazing there is no other mapping style that compares to yours
It's amazing man! Keep it!
Would it be the house of Aviz (his fathers) and not the house of Trastamara (his mothers) or Aviz-Trastamata?
Small correction. Miguel would be fluent in Catalan, Castillian and Portuguese. Aragonese had, by his time, already started decaying as the language of the Kingdom of Aragon. Ferdinand himself never used it from what I know. The main language of the Crown of Aragon was catalan, as it was spoken in Catalonia, Valencia, the Balearic Islands, and even in cities like Cagliari, Alghero, Palermo and Siracuse in Italy.
Ok thanks for the info, maybe Miguel brought the language back to prominence though 😂 when did aragonese stop being used?
@@Videntis.History I mean it's entirely possible but it would be extremely out of the ordinary. Aragonese enters a period of decay in the 1300s, when it starts "assimilating" into Castillian in its northwestern frontiers. This isn't to say the language is replaced by Castillian, but rather, because they are placed on a language continuum, the northwestern aragonese dialects start adopting castillian words and grammar to the point that, by the 1450s the language has, essentially become a dialect of Castillian (this process does not occur on the northern or eastern sides of Aragon, where the language is instead influenced by Gascon and Catalan instead). It's worth noting that, from the 1300s to 1412 this process is extremely regionalized and slow, but in 1412, when the Trastamaras, a castillian dynasty, gets ahold of power in the Crown of Aragon, it's significantly sped up.
From the 1460s to the 1500s it's said that Aragon enters a period of true castillianization, this is due, in large part, to the union of Castille and Aragon, and the castillianization of Ferdinand's court. In fact, it wasn't just Aragon which castillianized at this time. Sicily and Naples, where Catalan was the language of government, started using Castillian so as to communicate with King Ferdinand. And in Catalonia too, the Castillian language started gaining prominence as a written language (it was however, not spoken)
By Miguel's birthdate Aragonese would still be spoken in its "pure" more occitanic form in the north and east, albeit in the south east it had already lost ground to castillian. But these more occitanic speakers would, for the most part, be of the popular classes, with most nobles having been profoundly castillianized, either in part (speaking a very castillianized form of aragonese) or in full (speaking outright castillian). It's also worth noting Ferdinand was born in the northwestern parts of Aragon, where aragonese had first started to disappear.
So Miguel could in theory speak a more occitanic version of aragonese and revive it (afterall not that much time had passed so as to make it impossible), but it would imply adopting the manner of speech of "the poor" rather than the elites he surrounded himself by.
@@RoderickVIthanks so much for the info
I'm so glad to be part Catalan.
No creo. La necesidad de una lengua común para la Monarquía seguían ahí. Y no hay candidata mejor que el castellano.
PLEASE, make a part 2!! These history is SOOOOOO BEAUTIFULLLL
Well if Spain and Portugal are united, there is no Line of Demarcation, meaning Iberia controls all of Latin America, multiple African possessions, the Philippines, etc... The Iberians could conquer India before the British do or more easily force the British and French out of North America. Perhaps the Iberian Empire is "the Empire on which the sun never sets."
India would be more difficult. Is possible but not that much.
The line was between Portugal and Castile. So yeah it would probably still exist. Brazil and India would still be colonised by Portugal but under the Spanish crown.
The spanish empire already was the empire on which the sun nevers sets. The english just stole that. 200 years later.
You can not forget that the French colonies were also Latin America
My wet alternate history dream 👌 the Trastámaras were so much better than any other coming dynasty. And without the poisoned inheritance of the Netherlands, economics would just flourish. No European country would mess with Spain, just focusing on the Mediterranean and new world. As the Trastámaras were much more decentralized than the others, we could see a very powerful new world army and navy at the service of His Majesty.
The map style is 10/10.
¡Excelente, muchas gracias!
I agree, this scenario is the BEST for Spain
Every monarch after the original Ferdinand and Isabella caused their gradual downfall. Carlos I and Felipe II brought glory, but also crippling debt. Their successors saw stagnation and decline. The Bourbons were only slightly better (except for Carlos III, who was actually very successful). Fernando VII being the worst one, who is in large part responsible for losing nearly all of the Spanish Empire in a mere 15 years (1810 to 1825).
This is Aviz Dynasty, not Tratasmara stop trolling, in this timline you would be a vassal of Portugal, I can see Miguel de Paz not being biased and trying to take Castile Provinces into Portugal, but its successors would definitly try to do it.@@aaronTGP_3756
Carlos I did not bring debt?
@@aaronTGP_3756
I dont know if you have already considered this but the Spanish could use loyal Berber tribes to properly colonize northern Mexico, aswel as Texas, new Mexico, Arizona, and southern California, like the Cossacks did for Siberia with there trade forts, the Berbers can do something similar. The Berbers can also create a new trans Saharan trade route in the new world, with manufactured goods from Mexico being traded for the gold and silver of California and Nevada. This will also intensify the colonization of northern new Spain by Spanish people much earlier. This will insure a strong hold over the north unlike in our timeline were they said they held the north but it was really just vast wilderness and natives.
underrated comment
idk if this is cursed or what, christian berbers colonising california
Portugal is equivalent to Castilla, Navarra or Aragon. Spain would cover the entire peninsula, the same as Iberia, in Latin and Phoenician respectively.
Never thought about it like that xD so, according to you, spaniards are not our brothers, but our nephews. The true brothers of Portugal were Castile, Aragorn and Navarre, but they are long gone. xD
@@Tusiriakest
All the Portuguese know that Portugal acquired independence from the kingdom of Leon, the same as Castile. On the other hand, Aragorn is a character from Lord of the Rings.
@@joseluismartinalonso1736 I also knew that... just never saw an "equivalence" between Portugal and Castille because, until now, to me, Castille was a medieval kingdom that disappear long ago and Portugal is... well.. kinda here still. But it makes sense.
And I meant Aragon xD
@@joseluismartinalonso1736 You are right. Acquired independence. Before that, there was no Portugal. But the difference is it maintained independence WAY before "Spain" existed. In fact, naming it Spain was a linguistic trick to give it more credibility/authority. There was Castille before that. So yeah, all us portuguese known Portugal is the oldest country in Europe, yep, and definately older than Spain.
Wow this is so dedicate for a non-spaniard historian in this part of history, as a Spaniard thanks, i can't wait for the part 2 😁😁😀😀
Im a spaniard too, im surprised at the amount of details and realismo this work has, i LOVE It ❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@Videntis.Historypart 2 when?
I get the video is about Spain, but choosing Miguel makes it so tha Ibéria is united by a portuguese, something that is barely taken into account. Miguel wasn't a Trastamara he was an Avis, the video makes it seem like Portugal gets absorved by Spain/Castile, while i do agree to a certain extent that castilian culture would become dominant, i have a hard time beliving it would be this much and this fast, i wouldn't even be sure if the new capital would be Madrid or Lisbon,Lisbon was the richest city in Ibéria at the time, probably the richest in europe and was also a port city witch was ideal for a clonial empire . And regarding the colonial empire i belive that Miguel would continue is father legacy and focus in Asia.
All in all i enjoyed the video just found it a bit weird that biggest diferences betwen our world Spain and one under Miguel were barely talked about
Lisboa estaba demasiado expuesta para ser una buena capital. Y Miguel si era un Trastamara, por parte de madre.
@@JuandeMariana1994 Isso não invalida o que o Daniel disse: Miguel era Avis do lado do pai, e num mundo patriarcal, isso tem o seu peso e importância.
Spanish are much easier to be pronunced than portuguese, I think that's a great advantage that in case of union the castilian language and culture would be dominant.
@@JuandeMariana1994 Lisbon is very good protected geographically, the estuary and the hills makes it easily defended
Spaniard here.
For part 2, Spain should focus in gaining control of Italy. Seizing Genoa, (Milan and Naples were taken in the Italian wars) would be crucial to counterarrest France.
As Spain never had the netherlands, tue 80 years war and other expensive wars would never happen, making Spain wealthy and not engaging in unnecessary wars.
His friendship with the pope would make convert more people in africa, as he took more lands in the guinea and cape zone.
The spice areas and ports in india were gained thanks to the portuguese (historically accurate).
Did you know there was a plan for taking China? Taiwan was also taken but lost later.
Obviously Spain would defeat the ottomans at lepanto and be a crucial help in the 30 years war, even taking the help of France, which was more friendly in thia timeline and didn't side with the protestants.
As all the money spent in stupid wars would not be needed, all of this money would be invested into trade, development and taking more cities in italy, africa, india and asia.
Just some ideas. Keep the good work
30 years war? That could end up in decline for Spain. In our timeline is what it truly ruined us
@@ivangasconmora1059 man. We were and are the defenders of catholicism. Even if we don't like It, we would enter the war.
But we would do It like the swedes but from the south. Elite tercios entering the Hre and bringing fear. Just sending some divisions. As sweden in the war, no one would enter spanish territory.
@@Thunder-is8hl What about France?, France got in after them
@@1vangm484we wouldn't have the netherlands so france wouldn't be hostile towards us. The pyrinees mark the frontiers, and no one wanted to go further, so i see a scenario where france would effectively join the catholics, or if not, at least not to join tue protestants. It's true that it would have still a rivalry with Austria
@@Thunder-is8hl Wouldn't the french try to adquire new colonies and thus being against Spain? Also either we have the french as allies to "maintain peaceful borders" or the austrians to defeat the turks. In this era is going to be preferable to allie the austrians so I can't see Spain not fighting the french and the turks... Now that I think more of it, most probably we will enter the 30 years war anyway due to religious duty, it will weaken the empire for some time, but we won't fall to ruin.
Can't wait for part 2, this was awesome to watch!
Me too
I've been pondering my own version of this scenario for a while now, in somewhat the same direction as you have thus far. I think it's not even necessary to have Miguel's abilities as a monarch carry so much of the burden of putting Spain on a different path, though I suppose it depends on just how dominant you want this alternate Spain to be. Just avoiding some of the big European entanglements brought by the Habsburg monarchs would do a lot, and combined with the inclusion of Portugal in the union colonial policy may be influenced in a more sustainable direction. I think these main points are enough to plausibly imagine a larger, yet also more stable and longer lived, Spanish empire overseas, which may also be able to keep competitors in check more effectively. Closer to home, a bigger military focus around the Mediterranean, rather than in western Europe, seems likely. The Ottomans would obviously be the primary rival in this theater, but I'm not sure if Spain would ultimately enjoy much more success in that contest than in our timeline.
You are right. There wasn't a direct tercio vs janissaries battle that can prove who can win... If Spain can get some help from Italy and Europe, plus improving firepower from arcabuses then it is probable that Spain can win against the ottomans.
Charles I of spain had a lot of support from other countries when he fought the battle of Lepanto and the Pope supported firmly spain so i think it might be true.
@@1vangm484In fact we have 3 major confrontations in which the Spanish Tercios/Arquebusiers fought against the Ottomans/janissaries: the siege of Vienna in 1529, the siege of Castelnuovo in 1539 and Lepanto in 1571.
@@angelcamachodelsolar I'm talking about open-field battles, sieges and naval battles reduce the capabilities of both
@@1vangm484 In any case it would be very interesting to see, both empires had their golden age in the 16th century
YES! been waiting for this one for a while! You're one of my favorite alt history youtubers man!
Suggestion: What if Napoleon III decisevely won the Franco-Prussian war?
It was impossible!
The prussian military was incomparably more advanced and modern
I still want to see Part 2 for this. Spain restoring the Western Roman Empire. Perhaps they'll call it the Latin Empire.
Imperium Romanum*
@@Tlaxcayotl The Spaniards are too proud to revert to Latin. Most likely it would be called "Nuevo Imperio Romano" AKA "Novus Imperium Romanum"
Nice Video!
Suggestion:What if the Latin Empire survived?
...as a son of a King, the Portuguese one, the family name would be Avis and not Trastamara. More, Videntes History found a solution for the Portuguese independence spirit, simply deporting the Portuguese to elsewhere. Anyway, be aware that as a son of Manuel I, Miguel would be educated to be a Portuguese monarch on the Iberian thrones, not exactly the opposite as suggested. Very likely. uninterested in the European never ending problems, he would choose Lisbon to be the imperial capital for many reasons, specially the colonial ties meanwhile established with the overseas territories. Lisbon was already the principal port of Europe for the arrival of the commerce coming from Africa, Asia and Americas and from Lisbon the goods would be shipped in direction of the North and Baltic Seas. When he became King of Portugal in 1580, Filipe II really thought to install himself in Lisbon, but due to his possessions dispersed in west Europe, he opted to remain in Madrid, a place geographically more central for his land based/maritime empire.
You have to take to account that even if Miguel was portuguese, he would be very influenced by his grandparents. Thus portuguese customs would influence his actions, but it wouldn't make Lisbon the capital. And well Lisboa would be a glorious capital if it wasn't because of the earthquake...
@@1vangm484 Miguel de Paz would be considerd fully Portuguese, and from the Aviz dynasty not Tratamasara, cause his mom was the queen of portugal and his dad king of portugal, his mother was only princess of castile, but she gave that title away exchange for queen of portugal with the marriage, Miguel would be a aviz.
Portuguese and Lisbon was the most important city on Europe in those days. Even Philipp wanted Lisbon as Capital.
Lisbon would the capital of this Union, cope harder, The Crown of Castile would be dissolved after this Union, and all the kingdoms within ¨Crown of Castile¨ would be part of the Portuguese Crown, Sevile, Andalusia, Galicia, Toledo, Castile, Leon, etc, they would all be like Algarve. Lisbon would be capital cause its would obviously be to capital, Lisbon was richest city in europe at the time, And no his Grandparents wouldnt influence Miguel de Paz at all, he would be completly raised by Manuel I and his Advisors, and live in Portugal, aint no way in hell the dude is living in Castile or Aragon, he might see his grandparents a few time but thats it.@@1vangm484
@@goatku8547 Manuel I of Portugal would still be alive when MIguel inherits Castile. Most probably Miguel wouldn't make a capital to respect the bounderies of the rest of the kingdoms and he would stay most of the time in Lisbon. But his descendents are going to have a different view of their possesions, because they will want to get more power with centralization. For the long run, Lisbon is too far away from the eastern coasts.(Plus it would be a major disaster if the capital was destroyed in an earthquake)
Recently I was studying about Simeon the Great of Bulgaria. It was said for him that he spent his childhood studying in the Byzantine Empire. Even the people of the Empire called him half greek. When he rose to the throne he had an ambition the steal the throne of Byzantium by marrying into the royal family (in that time the empire was ruled by a kid which was a bastard and it was said his rule was unlawful). It would be really interesting to see a scenario about Simeon being successful in his idea about uniting the the countries and creating a Greco-Bulgarian state.
Believe me the greeks then and the greeks now hate him. He was plundering all Greece every summer...'til Basil the II the Bulgarianslayer arose and stopped it.
Finally, a video about Spain retained being a great power just like Britain and France.
Suggestion: What if Austria unified Germany under Habsburg rule instead of Prussia.
Finally, and now i have to wait with patience part 2. Take your time, the production and research is very good , its better this way than a quick rushed video
Thanks so much
What happens to Austria and the Habsburg if they don't get the crown of Spain and the riches of the new world ?
Also a scenario for you:
What if France became protestant and England stayed catholic ?
For England to become catholic Arthur Prince of Wales (elder brother of Henry VIII) would survive and for France to become protestant Francis I would favor it to an extent and later Henry II would adopt it to ally with the Lutherans while fighting the Hapsburgs
@@haldemarestNah Henry would just need a healthy son to the right wife, so as to make his subsequent divorces unnecessary.
If spainis empire tercios domt arrive they probably get conquered by the ottomans
@@HappyCatholicDaneThe pope was going to give him the divorce but Charles V didnt allow him
Great video!! I was waiting for someone to make this exactly scenario of alternate history, and you made it better than what I could have imagined!!
I will enjoy to see the second part, keep this way!!👍👌👏
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Your maps and narratives are amazing, they combine perfectly with the epic and it is the best style of map I have ever seen. I always dreamed of an Iberian Empire that would encompass the entire American continent, and much of Asia and Africa, a world where we never lost our empire and we did not fall into poverty after the disaster of '98. I would like you to do several parts of that, I wish this was the place of the current OTL, in my opinion the true PODs are the small changes and not the ones that are seen first glance. You have managed to exceed my imagination expectations since I never thought that we had practically all of North Africa, perhaps it will be assimilated over time to Spain with Portugal. As a Spaniard, I would give anything to live in that timeline where Miguel did not die and we became invincible more than in OTL, and in America we would have most of North America and hopefully have the entire USA and the most powerful country
I don't know what the 20th century will be like but I would love to know how the world wars would develop.
No sabía que se podían desarrollar mods así, pero mejor espérate a que él haya publicado las siguientes partes para así que no te falte información y que puedas usar sus videos como guía, además que tenga consistencia con las siguientes partes ya que él dijo que las haría
Y que el mapa sea igual que en el final de las partes de él, ese TH-camr me gusta por la manera en que explica los vídeos, si estilo de arte del mapa y los imperios supervivientes como el Español
Great reaction. As a Spaniard, I am glad to see how you have developed this reign of Miguel I, although I am surprised that his mother managed to survive childbirth (if I am not mistaken, the death of numerous Castilian queens and princesses of those times in childbirth was due to the bad practices that supplied by the court doctors, since they defended bloodletting as a method for women about to give birth; in Portugal and other parts of Europe, such methods were not defended, so this made it possible for Manuel I's second wife to give birth to 10 children, of which 8 reached adulthood; while the wife of Emperor Maximilian II gave birth to 16 children.).
However, I was surprised that you say that this new unified Spain manages to distance itself from the affairs north of the Pyrenees when Miguel has married the titular Duchess of Brittany. Didn't the French try to conquer Brittany to attack Spanish interests in the Franco-Spanish wars that really shook the first half of the 16th century for control of the Italian peninsula? After all, the French attacked Navarre in order to support the dynastic claims of the House of Albret, which had reigned in Navarre until they were overthrown following the conquest of Ferdinand II of Aragon and V of Castile.
On the other hand, I would love to see what happened to the Habsburgs when they did not inherit the Spanish kingdoms. After all, the Duke of Burgundy (and Austrian Archduke) Philip IV (also known as Philip the Handsome) officially died in 1506 from typhoid fever or from drinking cold water after exercising, but there are theories that he was poisoned on the orders of his father-in-law Ferdinand so that he would not destroy his policies long built during the reign of Isabella I (Philip was pro-French and relied on the Castilian nobles who had been tied short by his in-laws while the Catholic Monarchs were anti-French and defended a strong royal power against the nobility).
Isabella chose Ferdinand to marry, her loss
Because they were greater.. Spanish decline came after the bourbons.
@@NikasInParis_777 the Habsburgs dragged Spain into European wars and into eventually decline even before the bourbons during the 30 years war, Spain even more than Auetria was crippled because of it.
@@RodolfoGaming those wars although too vast were inevitable the french and ottoman wars had to happen and although Netherlands were a lost cause we needed it to set a score with France and be seen as the dominant Catholic hre power you can see under that lense why they needed to keep Netherlands despite a lost cause and England betrayed Spain and fought against us so that's that
@@RodolfoGaming and inflation yeah inflation sucks but inflation really wasn't a thing ever known or created before especially to that degree the Spanish inflation was the learning grounds to more advanced and later economies on how to run empires and colonial lands
@@NikasInParis_777 Spain collapsed after the ball kick eye gauge combo that was the Spanish armada sinking and the 30 years war with the dutch revolt being a constant drain and leading to occasion annual treasuries from the new world ending up in enemy hands. It was a weakness that allowed the bourbons to even take over but they took remants
This alternate history video is so well done, can’t wait for part 2
Definitely try for a part 2 curious on your take how the empire would evolve from here
Yes make a part 2! Great work. :)
On it!
Great video, cant wait for pt 2
I cant wait to see the visual, you have been making every new video look better than the last
5:34 The Romans in Hispania were succeeded by the Visigoths, who eventually ruled all of Hispania from 624 to 711. Granted, this isn't very long, so perhaps the Romans could be considered a predecessor of unified rule in Spain.
I thought the byzantines held part of the south? Did the Visigoth’s hold the whole thing?
@@Videntis.History The Byzantines held the southern coast of Spain from 552 to 624, when their final outpost, Cartago Spartaria (Cartagena today) fell to Visigothic hands. So the Visigoths ruled the whole of Spain for 87 years (it wasn't all of Spain beforehand, with the Suebi existing until 585).
Nevertheless, only a tiny mistake. The video as a whole was very good.
Actually, the Asturians considered themselves to be successors to the visigoths. This is in part the reason why Castillians would go on to call themselves Spanish. One could say Galicians, the Portuguese, the Leonese and Castillians thought of themselves as rebuilding the Visigoth Kingdom
@@RoderickVI correct
1:15 what the actually fuck I did not expect that’s the biggest movement in my life 😦🙀
Yeah man, you made this awesome scenario posible, thank you ❤
Great video! I like it too much
Thanks for this video. This scenario isn't explored enough.
PART 2
PLEASE
Yes i LOVE this video, this one of my favourite videos ever, is so good ❤
This is glorious
True
This map in the video is the best by far IMO. I love it! Especially for the time, it reminds of Victoria Z, which isn't the same time period but I visualize 1453 - 1914 maps in this style so I love it! Also the scenerio was pretty interesting too!
That was what I was trying to make it feel like, I love the Vic2 map
Your videos are great bro, definitely about to sub. My only complaint is the music being slightly too loud 😂
The Spanish helped to a large extent in the unification of the Netherlands as well as helping in its enrichment (without the Spanish influence perhaps there would not be a Dutch nationalism
Brillant.
Why didn't you made a part two?
Good vid
Very cool!
Just one thing, wouldn't Miguel da Paz be of the Aviz dynasty and not of Trastamara?
Uh yeah, but it’s supposed to be Spanish focused. Though it probably would’ve been a merge of the houses so here it was Avis-Trastamara
Probably the houses would merge into something like "De Avis y Trastámara"
@@Videntis.Historywhy is it spain focused tho? Castille was the largest kingdom so it makes sense that Miguel would be there longer than in Portugal, but at the time of Manuel's death Lisbon was still the richest capital and Miguel was raised in portuguese soil and culture, I think he would be more portuguese then castillian. And the manpower of spain would be essencial for the continuation of the Portuguese Empire in the East but you almost didn't mention that...
You even called the union just as Spain while it would be more like Iberia, similiar to the Iberian Union
@@Videntis.Historythis makes no sense isnt this a video about the union?
From calling miguel a trastamara instead of an Aviz to ignoring completly portuguese dominion over Africa and Asia and what a union at that point would mean for it
This video feels like essently a "what if spain was stronger" and speaks about litle more than that
@@loubaxo9339at that time, Spain referred to the entire peninsula, not just for aragon and castile
Amazing video!!! I imagined this scenario hundreds of times in my head, Im sure Miguel would have been a way better king in any aspect than Carlos V. If there is a part 2 I would love to see a bigger focuse of the economic and social reforms in this Spain, without the inner arancels and a more developist strategy the great industry the three kingdoms already had would have flourished.
1.- how do you make your maps? They're gorgeous!
2.- part 2 please.
Damn, I really want to see a part 2, I'm not Spanish or anything, but seeing a scenario where Spain is an absolute behemoth sounds really interesting.
Video suggestion: What if the partition of the ottoman empire completely succeeded? (What if turkey was partioned?)
An arabless, christian Maghreb with Berber and Latin languages being spoken throughout its lands? Perfection
Jesus: Gothic dreams never end
Arabs was stablished centuries ago.
Yay the spanish video I wanted!
When a second part?, the story was incredible
What if Margaret Maid of Norway lived and married Edward II of England, creating an earlier Anglo-Scottish union?
wouldn't it be an Anglo-Scottish-Norwiegen union?
Such a based scenario, I'm looking forward for part 2!
I liked this scenario, but I have a great qualm with it, and it's North Africa. In no universe will the locals convert to Catholicism en masse, rather, this alternate Spain will need to adopt a policy of tolerance with their Muslim subjects, just like they had prior in Iberia, and as they did in the Philippines and the regions of North Africa they controlled in real life.
To elaborate further, forced conversions of Jews and Muslims were terrible for the Iberian kingdoms on the long run, as now the basically had a population with supposedly the same rights as Christians as the rest, but who were discriminated against and persecuted by the Inquisition (which was formed to persecute Jewish converts that practiced Judaism in secret, known as "Judaizantes" in Spanish). By being more tolerant, you had a source of income by taxing these minorities, and you also avoid the whole drama of "pureza de sangre" that ensued after mass conversions of Jews. With this policy, expansion into North Africa would have been a piece of cake, as the VERY zealous locals might not have resisted Christian domination.
In case you're wondering where I got this from, you can read David Nirenberg's book Neighboring Faiths: Christianity, Islam, and Judaism in the Middle Ages and Today. It goes into great detail on the effects mass conversions had on Spain.
Pt 2 please!
Would the treatment of autonomy lead to the establishment of more native principalities like Tlaxcala here in Mexico?
For those who don’t know it was mainly the tlaxcaltecas who defeated the Aztecs with Spanish help as they were just too few Spanish conquistadors to actually occupy the land.
Later they (the tlaxcaltecas) embraced the catholic faith and incorporated into the empire as nobles in the European style
The modern state in Mexico has almost the same borders as did the (duchy? I don’t remember exactly what it was) and if it existed in Germany why not in Mexico and Peru
I believe Mexico (New Spain) was referred to, like the rest of Spanish American colonies, as a Viceroyalty.
Bro do it now, i want a part 2 so bad.
Im interested in the knock on effects of this scenario's slower production of silver and gold.
Greater focus on productive assets probably means the Spanish Crown is less likely to go bankrupt and the relative growth of industry in northern Europe is less pronounced. So the. Dutch and English are far less powerful.
I want to konw what would happen if France won 7 years war and kept their colony of New France
@Videntis.History Sorry Videntis. I imagine this video gave you a lot of work, and I'm sorry to criticize it, but I do think this is a very poorly made scenario that would deserve some reconsidering...This seems like a video made by someone who knows somethings about Spanish history, but nothing of Portuguese history, and if you want to do a scenario of both of them uniting, you shouldn't treat one of them as an appendix only.
In the late 1400's and early 1500's, out of the three main Iberian Kingdoms, Portugal was the wealthiest and strongest one. For almost 100 years, Portugal had been conquering lands in Africa, increasing its riches with the trade from crops in Madeira (first sugar intensive crops in the world), the gulf of Guinea (Gold, Ivory, Precious Stones and Slaves), and eventually found a maritime way to India, precisely in 1498, for good old spices.
Portugal was, at the time and for only a brief moment, the main player in the Peninsula and one of the main in Europe. A good way to understand the spirit of the age is that:
i) Columbus went to Spain to sell its project of going west to reach the indies, after studying sailing in Portugal, and only after he had pitch the same idea to the Portuguese King, which knew very well Columbus' math was wrong because he headed a scientific powerhouse of a country. The Spanish kings agreed because they didn't had the available expertise to see that the plan was wrong;
ii) When Columbus discovered america, there was no big reactions in Europe. Why? Because hearing that some new land had been discovered was a daily thing coming from Portugal for almost 100 years (since 1415's Ceuta conquest). What every European wanted really to know was if there was a maritime way to India! That was the big prize! That is why, when Columbus reached the Americas, the Tordesilhas Treaty was negotiated, because Spain wanted to ensure their new discovery (asking help from the Pope at a time that it was weaker then its rival) while Portugal wanted to guaranty its domain over India, because at the time, that was seen as the best side of the deal... not some land no one knew nothing about in the wrong side of the map (only now, in hindsight, do we understand how huge of a discovery America was).
iii) By 1510, during King D. Manuel I reign, Portugal had closed off the Indian Ocean. It had control over the major choke points of Mozambique Island, the island of Socotra near the Red Sea, Hormuz in the Persian Gulf, Malacca in Malaysia, while controlling the major commerce hubs of India (Cochin, Calcutta, Bombay, Diu). No one could trade in the Indian Ocean but the Portuguese or under Portuguese authorization. This made King Manuel the richest king in Europe at the time. And this doesn't even takes into account lands eventually won in current Brazil, Canada, China, Japan and Indonesia. That is why King Manuel wanted to unify with Spain at that time, because he felt he could do it under major Portuguese influence (so that the major kingdom was Portugal and not Castille).
So, returning to your scenario, its strange to see the no mention of Africa or Asia, particularly India (the major prize of the exploration age)...all ignored. It's strange to see the New World being prioritized (if anything, having access to India would probably make Spain forget the Americas for quite a few hundred years... the only reason they invested in America in our own world was because India was already taken by Portugal). In the same line, having North Africa is a major war theater chosen by a good king when the gold came from Guinea and from the spices of India and Indonesia, seems to me to be completely out of reasonable (and the idea of a Iberian victory would also be questionable, since Portugal did had a king who wanted to expand in Morocco, and he died with most Portuguese nobles and is seen as the worst Portuguese king because of it... why choose this as a choice of a supposedly good king???). Not to mention the quick undermining of Portuguese identity for a Castilian one in a time where Portugal was richer, Lisbon was bigger, and knowing what happen in the Iberian Union, when a clearly stronger Spain wasn't able to "convert" Portugal after 60 years. Why not some mixing? or a mostly predominant "cult" and "upper class" Portuguese language and a commoner Castilian after the court went to Lisbon? I don't necessarily think this could happen, but I do think you simply didn't even consider it because you glossed over the history of those countries at the time.
So, sorry, I don't want to "troll" or anything. But I suggest you rethink this video's arguments. I recommend Roger Crowley's book "Conquerors: How Portugal created the first global empire" as a fairly easy read to get in on the topic. Thanks for your efforts and sorry for the (hopefully constructive) criticism.
Great points, I definitely focused more on Spain and did not spend a ton of time researching Portuguese history. I didn’t mention India or Asia in this video because that’s focused on a lot in p2 and p3 so I didn’t mention it here. I didn’t mean that the Portuguese culture was assimilated into Castile. I just meant that Castile mixed slightly with Portuguese culture to make it easier to rule them. Thanks for the comment and I will keep your suggestions in mind for the next videos
@@Videntis.History Thank you for the feedback and I hope it helps in the future!
There is only a small flaw in that timeline, pointed out by a comment made by @DANIEL--xm3xv . Portugal was focused on India, Far-East and Africa. Brazil was a colonial project of territorial expansion, unlike those others, which were comercial and naval intensive. A huge different mindset and strategy when compared to the choices made by historical Spain. Moreover, you cannot have Portuguese settling North Africa without sacrificing the colonization of Brazil, especially if slavery was prohibited. Another point here: African nations were based on slavery, deeply rooted in the tradition of several African kingdoms. The contact with Portuguese outposts would see frequent proposals for sales of slaves. Two outcomes would be possible 1) end of slavery in those kingdoms (especially if north africa was taken by Hispania, cutting of the trade route of Timbuktu) or 2) war against Hispania everywhere in Africa - the worst scenario for the Portuguese, as it would require wars of conquest against local kingdoms, when so few troops would be available - meaning abandoning several outposts to focus only on a few or draining Spanish troops in sensless wars in sub-saharian wars. Withoutout secure ports/outposts on the shores of Africa, the trade with India, China, Indonesia and Japan would suffer a tremendous attrition, meaning a much lower income.
What if Pyrrhus of Epirus succeded and unified Magna Grecia?
What if novgorod form russia
We just playing EU4?
Amazing video Videntis, however I've just noticed that you wrote "Aragaon" instead of "Aragón"
Yeah I just realized that
"Marrying the Hapsburgs, causing their eventual ruin"
I swear right now you wouldn't even dare to say something of the sort lol.
That’s an old video, I disavow that statement 😂
Please do what if Alexander the Great lived longer part 3
I’m curious to see how the Italian peninsula factors in this timeline. Southern Italy was an important part of the European part of the Spanish empire (troops and taxes). Does one of Miguel son get the crown of Italy?
No creo que fuera así la conquista de América, creo que sería más cómo en nuestra realidad, además Bartolomé de las Casas exageró la conquista ( reconocido por él) también están ausentes los jesuitas pieza clave del imperio y otras variables importantes como la guerra de las comunidades y las Germanías , pero aún así me encantó el vídeo.
Second part please!
Without the resource extraction would the colonies have grown so quickly? I can see more push towards Africa and Asia to circumvent Ottoman blocking of the spice trade but massive expansion of the colonies were for the resources more than the spreading of the faith. Very much looking forward to pt 2!
Can you do a scenario where Austria unifies Germany, or even better if Germany unified way earlier
What if Castile united with Portugal instead of Aragon in 1479.
What if Richard Lionheart live longer.
I'm still dreaming with the part two of this video
What if Rome had lost the Punic Wars?
Would they claim, to be the fourth Rome? Because the Byzantines gaved them the title before coming to end by Ottomans.
Wait for p2
@@Videntis.History Already exicted for part 2.
@@Videntis.Historythe part 2 would be amazing
What if Brian Boru's 'empire' did shatter after his death?
Or what if the Irish were unified under a single ruler in the 11th century?
Part 2 please
In the video description it says "Spain has established its supremacy in the Americas, Europe, Africa and Asia." Can someone tell me where the Spanish established supremacy in Africa and Asia?? As far as I know, the Portuguese Empire did this, not the Spanish Empire.
In this timeline Spain is the whole peninsula, in our timeline it was also called like that (from hispania) but instead of being a geographical region it became a state (the actual spanish kingdom/state)
Some ideas for a video are what if the varna crusade succeeded or if the sack of Constantinople never occurred
i would love to see a what if Arabia was united
7:13 Miguel would be of the Avis, not Trastamara Dinasty.
Here's some of my musings on this scenario. Does this new Iberian union follow more the historic Castillian alliance with France or the historic Portuguese alliance with Britain in the competition those two had or do they now form a third wheel that challenges both France and Britain. Perhaps the British/French rivalry never develops in this history.
As a Portuguese, this would probably would make the Iberian Union a pretty strong country
What if Elizabeth I married Erik VIX of Sweden ( or maybe make a series covering her many suitors and the geopolitical implications of each scenario. By the way, love your vids ).
Did not know that was a possibility in history. Can see a potential British - Kalmar union in that one.
@@calste85 That what I'm saying, it's a cool possibility. And imagine what would be possible with such a strong Protestant alliance.
Could you do a video on what if Russia joined the central powers? 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Perhaps in this timeline Spain United Italy
Probably It would, but that would mess up the balance un Europe.
To unite Italy it would mean to fight against Austrians and french at the same time. That's too much.
What if Theodore Roosevelt ran for a 3rd term instead of nominating Taft?
Since you did a American victory of 1812 could you do what if Napoleon won against Russia no one ever dose a “what if Russia surrendered after the fall of Moscow” or things like that it’s always either he never invades or loses and it turns into a alternate Waterloo scenario
Fantastic video man! So mcuh thanks for the Shout out! Always gonna be happy to give you suggestions.
Another one: what if franz ferdinand lived and there was no ww1?
No attack or survived being attacked? Both could go in interesting ways.
even if he didn't die, the war was gonna happen either way, the tensions were just too high for a war not to happen lmao
interesting
make a second part please !!!
Good video. And sometimes I wonder what it would have been like if Miguel da Paz had survived. But there are a few things I like to highlight about the Americas:
1 - Would the Aztecs still fall into this reality? Also the Incas? I mean, Cortez and Pizarro (that mostly) had a lot of encouragement from Carlos V. Considering, according to your video, that Spain would follow a more lenient attitude towards the natives, I actually saw them taking territories in the Caribbean islands and having commercial relations with these nations, rather than conquest. Just as Portugal did with China and Japan. And, with Portugal as part of the Spanish crown, this super Spain could follow the Portuguese way of negotiating and proselytizing Christianity.
You know, if Bartolomé de Las Casas had defended the rights of the indigenous people, as he did in OTL (our timeline), and Miguel had prohibited the slave trade, it would have been better to just maintain a commercial relationship with the great American civilizations, instead of conquering and bringing people from Spain.
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2 - Would they (the conquerors) do the same as they do in our reality? Do you remember that old question about “a time traveler moves a chair and changes all of reality” (butterfly effect)?
You know, in the Inca case, Pizarro was very lucky in capturing Atahualpa, and the fact that the Inca Empire, although its government was centralized, was in civil war at the time.
If he came to Tawantinsuyu a day earlier or later, he wouldn't do the same thing he did in OTL. That if he found the Incas in a civil war, as happened.
And he probably wouldn't have as much support from spanish crown as he did in OTL.
The same with Cortez: although he had a lot of support from the enemies of Anahuac ("Aztec" empire), due to divisive nature of that civilization, things could have changed in this reality.
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3 - And what about the Treaty of Tordesillas? It was signed between Portugal and Castile. If they were the same ITL (In That Reality), and Miguel married a French princess, would Spain and France sign something like that? You know, they would/could be allies, at this point, and that could include exploring the new world.
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4 - And considering that the Netherlands would probably not exist in this reality, and that the Holy Roman Empire - the Germans - tried to be colonizers (the Welser colonization of Venezuela) in ours, they (Dutch and Germans) would be the same thing ITL, right? So, that would be a massive superpowered empire (as Spain in this alternate reality), and a potential colonizer at this point. A greater threat to the Iberians than the Dutch were in OTL.
Crazy how we almost had 2 deathly rivals unite, isn't it?
Portugal taught Spain everything they bout colonizin
Carolíngian impirie part 2!
U should show in later parts Iberian colonization in sub Saharan Africa and Asia
Look out for p2
What if ''het rampjaar 1672'' never happened and the Netherlands become a great power.
Part II❤
Make it so that spain unifies italy in this timeline.
What if Napoleon accepted the Frankfurt proposal?
Quick question you have Miguel marrying Claude of Brittany so in this timeline does her mother Anne, Duchess of Brittany and wife of King Louis XII of France (claude's father) have a son because as far as I know the french wanted full control of Brittany and Louis would have not have let Claude (who would have been her mother's heir) marry someone else unless he had a son with Anne. Also wouldn't Miguel's family/house name have been Aviz not Trastamara as that was his maternal grandparents house name and Aviz was the name of the House of Portugal his father's.
No 2° part? Sad😢