In the Orkney and Shetland Islands, the trow is a knoll-dwelling nocturnal elf that loves to play the fiddle and sometimes kidnaps musicians who walking alone. They are ruled by a trow-king who keeps his court and castle in broch ruins. In addition to this, there is also a sea-trow, believed to be the spirit of a sailor who drowned at sea. Etymologically, trow is derived from the Norwegian draug, and thus it is also related to troll in a way.
That's fascinating stuff!!! I had no idea about this and when I eventually make my history of drow in fantasy video I will keep this in mind. Thank you.
I’m doing my own Dro in a Sunless City adventure guide who war with goblins on one front and mer maid queens on the other but that doesn’t prevent me from using my underground serpent folk or among themselves in seven public and four forbidden religious factions either. The serpents who go out or gather treasure do so in order to return to their roving temple of whispering snakes who wear jewelry on their slithering bodies.
Pathfinder got rid of the drow for the same reason they created 2e, because they wanted to ditch their core audience of people who liked D&D 3.5e and didn’t want to stop playing it.
Purple skin? When theheck did Drow in D&D get "purple skin" instead of yet-black skin? I had wondered about art work in the 2010s increasingly turning Drow dark blue or dark purple instead of dark grey/black, but I always assumed that was for artistic purposes because it's easier to show black as dark blueish-purple so that you can still have shading instead of a flat black area when you print the picture. For the same reason that old superhero comics showed Superman's black hair with blue highlights so it wasnt just a huge black blob
The German video game _Sacred_ and the German Fantasy RPG _Arcane Codex_ simply turned their Dark Elves into albinos with pale skin, white hair and red eyes, but they kept the whole "evil elves dwelling underground in caves and having giant spiders as guard animals and being resistance to poison and also matriarchy" aspects.
I'm not sure why they got purple skin but even in books with their described as having black skin it comes out as purple in the yard. A few people I saw online theorized It was because the purple skin was more attractive. It also helped them make player characters from what I've read. I also do like the idea of dark elves being albino, nothing says that they have to have different skin tones.
Wonderful insight into Dark Elves. I agree Paizo’s wanting to change their Dark Elves & really like your ideas. Keep up the good work on insightful videos into D&D.
I have deep elves in my setting that were driven underground still, but rather than becoming sadistic due to their gods, they became more feral because they had to to survive. Over time their skin lost all pigment due to the constant darkness to the point they have almost clear skin showing their veins and organs. They have incredibly long claws and walk mostly hunched over, being cave stalkers more than anything.
A reminder isn't that politics are the issue but how they're presented and how it's used. I love political stakes in a game, but what's happening to settings in current year is that these defined settings are being changed suddenly without explanation or more seemingly on a whim.
I think that's a fair point. I also think that the focus on political issues instead of engaging stories or gameplay ruins any positive messages they wish to have.
@@kid9893 theres also the fact that htis isnt... yknow... OUR WORLD I brouhgtit up to a friend explaining the nonsense.... comparing Darth Vader to Trump jsut ruins Vaders appeal and archetype regardless of the politics. as we can see with modern star wars and how they keep ruining any sense or worldbuilding the series had. like if im playing a character in dnd, i dont wanna hear about modern politics and normally those modern political takes are just someone praising themselves for how big brain and correct their opinions are... ive seen it aroudn and thankfully havent been a part of thsoe games were "trolls are all X people i dont like".
This right here. I have no problem with people being inspired by real stuff but it should still be reinterpreted through the medium that you're telling.
Noone can copyright "Dark Elves who dwell underground", because old D&D took the idea of Dark Elves & Deep Gnomes etc straight from old Norse mythology. In the Edda, Dark Elves and dwarves are often used interchangably as they both are described as being greedy and living underground where they dig for gold, while High Elves/Light Elves dwell in a totally different realm. In fact, Fafnir the dragon used to be a dwarven king whose greed for gold transformed him into a dragon. So Wizards of the Coast trying to copyright the concept of Dark Elves with pale hair is ludicrous. Can't wait for WotC trying to sue Marvel for using "Dark Elves" in their Thor MCU movies. /sarcasm
This is true, that's why I listed a bunch of other things they had in common. The association with spiders and the matriarchal society and great houses are not in Norse mythology. The more specific you get the easier it is to prove in court it was stolen.
Love your ideas for altered drow. Waaaay back in the 80s and my teen years, well before Driz'zt and the FR drow lore (also not a playable PC race), I shifted them to nominally worship Graz'zt, with the internal conflict between an entirely female priesthood (that did not have overall rule but wanted it) and a more traditional male-dominated nobility, which produced all the druids and wizards (pretty sure I stole this concept of church vs. nobility from a fantasy novel, but cannot remember which one). As a society they were on the evil side, or more precisely "feudal fascists", but their preference for underground life kept conflict with surface races at a minimum - they turned evil AFTER fleeing underground after losing a war to surface elves - their primary conflicts were with both good and evil dwarven nations, and focused more on access to resources then conquest, and even maintained trade with surface nations brave enough to send delegations on dangerous journeys beneath the earth. Most of this was simply because I wasn't a fan of how Drow were presented in the original Drow/Demonweb Pits modules, but also to make them palatable when a couple of my players wanted Drow characters, because even with these changes they were still the biggest edgelords and we were teenage boys so duh.
I dig your ideas on changing the drow. Very cool concepts and ideas to keep them in the same category of enemy, but doing those things in different ways and for different reasons! And it still leaves room for Drizzt-ish characters who come to realize that not every surfacer is mind-controlled and evil, and that perhaps the Inquisition has too much control of the people.
Pathfinder was never a replacement for 4e D&D. WoTC shut down publishing Dungeon and Dragon magazine. Paizo was the publisher of those magazines and wanted to continue as a company. They used the open game license to create Pathfinder to publish material similar to 3e or 3.5e D&D. The Drow are actually night goblins from Germany mythologies and as such not elves. So it is good that Paizo is no longer using them in their publications.
Trow is also from the folklore and mythology of the Orkney and Shetland Islands, coming from the Norse draug and thus also related to the troll. They were knoll-dwelling elves who loved playing the violin and kidnapping musicians. However, a more special case is the sea-trow / sea-draug, which according to tradition was the spirit of a drowned sailor. In D&D, trowes are merged with dark elves, borrowed from Norse svartálfar and related originally to dwarves.
"hinted at"? Paizo has been using various snake people in Pathfinder for years, there's a whole adventure path campaign where you fight the cult of the Snake God. Pathfinder simply moved away from the typical D&D "lizard people" and leaned heavily on Naga and on the snake people from Lovecraft's _Cthulhu Mythos/Dreamlands._ But that's really a totally different vibe to Dark Elves. Didn't Eberron have Dark Elves that lived on the surface but in dense jungles and worshipped a scorpion deity and had scorpion-driders? Why not use something like that instead of spiders... scorpions, centipedes etc.
Yeah I'm not entirely sure myself why they picked steak people. However snake people have existed in fantasy outside of dungeons & dragons for years so maybe they are relying on that? A lot of the stuff they have changed for the new Pathfinder rework is wild, all for the sake of not being sued.
So if you watch all of my videos I try to give different interpretations of all the races or fantasy monsters that I can. I have no problem with people taking these ideas freely. I offered them up free here. I honestly have so many different ideas and ways I could pull all these things that giving them for free is not a issue to me
I'm getting mixed signals. You seem to have strong opinions on Pathfinder's setting and its changes, yet, your explanations of the lore come across as...very uninformed, to say the least Sekmin (Serpentfolk) have not been "hinted at" nor are talked little about, not even remotely. They've been important since the beginning. We know a lot about their society, history and relationship with the other elder races of the world like the Azlant and the Cyclops. There's a whole Adventure Path in 1E dedicated to their Headless God Ydersius (Serpent's Skull) who is one of the main threats to Golarion. It's not a fringe issue, they're kind of a big deal. If you're unfamiliar with the setting as to ignore all this, idk if your opinion on its changes can be of much use to this discussion. Even then, this is just my salty opinion, you still have the right to give your own and be respected
In the Orkney and Shetland Islands, the trow is a knoll-dwelling nocturnal elf that loves to play the fiddle and sometimes kidnaps musicians who walking alone. They are ruled by a trow-king who keeps his court and castle in broch ruins. In addition to this, there is also a sea-trow, believed to be the spirit of a sailor who drowned at sea. Etymologically, trow is derived from the Norwegian draug, and thus it is also related to troll in a way.
That's fascinating stuff!!! I had no idea about this and when I eventually make my history of drow in fantasy video I will keep this in mind. Thank you.
I’m doing my own Dro in a Sunless City adventure guide who war with goblins on one front and mer maid queens on the other but that doesn’t prevent me from using my underground serpent folk or among themselves in seven public and four forbidden religious factions either. The serpents who go out or gather treasure do so in order to return to their roving temple of whispering snakes who wear jewelry on their slithering bodies.
That is a fun combination! I like it
I didn't even know this was a problem until now
Yeah it's absolutely wild. The table top gaming space is sort of on fire.
Great info 🎉
Glad it was helpful!
I wonder if Northstar is going to have a sudden temporary increase in Frostgrave: Ghost Archapeligo snakemen models as people try these new beasties.
I could see that. At the Paizocon they did have a panel with Wiz Kids about painting minis so I know the pathfinder fandom loves minis
Pathfinder got rid of the drow for the same reason they created 2e, because they wanted to ditch their core audience of people who liked D&D 3.5e and didn’t want to stop playing it.
I often wonder the same thing. It's absolutely wild watching the changes they have made.
Purple skin? When theheck did Drow in D&D get "purple skin" instead of yet-black skin? I had wondered about art work in the 2010s increasingly turning Drow dark blue or dark purple instead of dark grey/black, but I always assumed that was for artistic purposes because it's easier to show black as dark blueish-purple so that you can still have shading instead of a flat black area when you print the picture. For the same reason that old superhero comics showed Superman's black hair with blue highlights so it wasnt just a huge black blob
The German video game _Sacred_ and the German Fantasy RPG _Arcane Codex_ simply turned their Dark Elves into albinos with pale skin, white hair and red eyes, but they kept the whole "evil elves dwelling underground in caves and having giant spiders as guard animals and being resistance to poison and also matriarchy" aspects.
I'm not sure why they got purple skin but even in books with their described as having black skin it comes out as purple in the yard. A few people I saw online theorized It was because the purple skin was more attractive. It also helped them make player characters from what I've read. I also do like the idea of dark elves being albino, nothing says that they have to have different skin tones.
WotC changed the drowes to blue and purple because black-skinned drowes were accused of Blackface. Here's everything I know about the case.
I love your take on Dark Elves.
Do you have some source text about them, for later refference?
Thank you my friend. Nothing public as of now, when I get the discord up and running I can post some of them there if youd like.
Wonderful insight into Dark Elves. I agree Paizo’s wanting to change their Dark Elves & really like your ideas. Keep up the good work on insightful videos into D&D.
Thanks, will do!
I have deep elves in my setting that were driven underground still, but rather than becoming sadistic due to their gods, they became more feral because they had to to survive. Over time their skin lost all pigment due to the constant darkness to the point they have almost clear skin showing their veins and organs. They have incredibly long claws and walk mostly hunched over, being cave stalkers more than anything.
I love old school dark elves but they’re adults only game pieces
Sex, violence and slavery aren’t story tools for everyone
Yeah they definitely touch on adult themes. Even if you soften them to a PG-13 level, they still are very mature.
A reminder isn't that politics are the issue but how they're presented and how it's used.
I love political stakes in a game, but what's happening to settings in current year is that these defined settings are being changed suddenly without explanation or more seemingly on a whim.
I think that's a fair point. I also think that the focus on political issues instead of engaging stories or gameplay ruins any positive messages they wish to have.
@@kid9893 theres also the fact that htis isnt... yknow... OUR WORLD
I brouhgtit up to a friend explaining the nonsense.... comparing Darth Vader to Trump jsut ruins Vaders appeal and archetype regardless of the politics. as we can see with modern star wars and how they keep ruining any sense or worldbuilding the series had.
like if im playing a character in dnd, i dont wanna hear about modern politics and normally those modern political takes are just someone praising themselves for how big brain and correct their opinions are... ive seen it aroudn and thankfully havent been a part of thsoe games were "trolls are all X people i dont like".
This right here. I have no problem with people being inspired by real stuff but it should still be reinterpreted through the medium that you're telling.
Noone can copyright "Dark Elves who dwell underground", because old D&D took the idea of Dark Elves & Deep Gnomes etc straight from old Norse mythology. In the Edda, Dark Elves and dwarves are often used interchangably as they both are described as being greedy and living underground where they dig for gold, while High Elves/Light Elves dwell in a totally different realm. In fact, Fafnir the dragon used to be a dwarven king whose greed for gold transformed him into a dragon. So Wizards of the Coast trying to copyright the concept of Dark Elves with pale hair is ludicrous. Can't wait for WotC trying to sue Marvel for using "Dark Elves" in their Thor MCU movies. /sarcasm
Lol that would be a legal battle for the ages. If GW won’t bother to sue over the name Malekith im Marvel, WotC doesnt have a chance.
This is true, that's why I listed a bunch of other things they had in common. The association with spiders and the matriarchal society and great houses are not in Norse mythology. The more specific you get the easier it is to prove in court it was stolen.
And the word "trow" or "drow" or "trowe" also comes from the folklore of the Shetland and Orkney Islands and is derived from the Norse draug.
Love your ideas for altered drow. Waaaay back in the 80s and my teen years, well before Driz'zt and the FR drow lore (also not a playable PC race), I shifted them to nominally worship Graz'zt, with the internal conflict between an entirely female priesthood (that did not have overall rule but wanted it) and a more traditional male-dominated nobility, which produced all the druids and wizards (pretty sure I stole this concept of church vs. nobility from a fantasy novel, but cannot remember which one). As a society they were on the evil side, or more precisely "feudal fascists", but their preference for underground life kept conflict with surface races at a minimum - they turned evil AFTER fleeing underground after losing a war to surface elves - their primary conflicts were with both good and evil dwarven nations, and focused more on access to resources then conquest, and even maintained trade with surface nations brave enough to send delegations on dangerous journeys beneath the earth. Most of this was simply because I wasn't a fan of how Drow were presented in the original Drow/Demonweb Pits modules, but also to make them palatable when a couple of my players wanted Drow characters, because even with these changes they were still the biggest edgelords and we were teenage boys so duh.
I dig your ideas on changing the drow. Very cool concepts and ideas to keep them in the same category of enemy, but doing those things in different ways and for different reasons!
And it still leaves room for Drizzt-ish characters who come to realize that not every surfacer is mind-controlled and evil, and that perhaps the Inquisition has too much control of the people.
Pathfinder was never a replacement for 4e D&D. WoTC shut down publishing Dungeon and Dragon magazine. Paizo was the publisher of those magazines and wanted to continue as a company. They used the open game license to create Pathfinder to publish material similar to 3e or 3.5e D&D. The Drow are actually night goblins from Germany mythologies and as such not elves. So it is good that Paizo is no longer using them in their publications.
Trow is also from the folklore and mythology of the Orkney and Shetland Islands, coming from the Norse draug and thus also related to the troll. They were knoll-dwelling elves who loved playing the violin and kidnapping musicians. However, a more special case is the sea-trow / sea-draug, which according to tradition was the spirit of a drowned sailor. In D&D, trowes are merged with dark elves, borrowed from Norse svartálfar and related originally to dwarves.
I hear castle crashers ❤
You are correct my friend. I think it makes fantastic background music.
"hinted at"? Paizo has been using various snake people in Pathfinder for years, there's a whole adventure path campaign where you fight the cult of the Snake God. Pathfinder simply moved away from the typical D&D "lizard people" and leaned heavily on Naga and on the snake people from Lovecraft's _Cthulhu Mythos/Dreamlands._ But that's really a totally different vibe to Dark Elves. Didn't Eberron have Dark Elves that lived on the surface but in dense jungles and worshipped a scorpion deity and had scorpion-driders? Why not use something like that instead of spiders... scorpions, centipedes etc.
The funny thing is that where the Drow aren't copyrighted, WotC's snake-people, the Yuan-ti, are. Interested in seeing how this plays out.
Well there has never been a massive society of them underground that was as dominant as the drow were in the old underdark lore.
Yeah I'm not entirely sure myself why they picked steak people. However snake people have existed in fantasy outside of dungeons & dragons for years so maybe they are relying on that? A lot of the stuff they have changed for the new Pathfinder rework is wild, all for the sake of not being sued.
Make a vid on Morrowind
Morrowind is a wild game. That's not a bad idea for maybe a video talking about how it was designed.
Awesome video. Which deities would your version of Pathfinder's Drow worship if any?
How much do you want us to be influenced by your take?
I don't believe I understand this question to properly respond?
@@kid9893 oh i dont wanna jsut completely rip off something but you worked with every idea that was ever given to the drow to reshape it
So if you watch all of my videos I try to give different interpretations of all the races or fantasy monsters that I can. I have no problem with people taking these ideas freely. I offered them up free here. I honestly have so many different ideas and ways I could pull all these things that giving them for free is not a issue to me
I'm getting mixed signals. You seem to have strong opinions on Pathfinder's setting and its changes, yet, your explanations of the lore come across as...very uninformed, to say the least
Sekmin (Serpentfolk) have not been "hinted at" nor are talked little about, not even remotely. They've been important since the beginning. We know a lot about their society, history and relationship with the other elder races of the world like the Azlant and the Cyclops. There's a whole Adventure Path in 1E dedicated to their Headless God Ydersius (Serpent's Skull) who is one of the main threats to Golarion.
It's not a fringe issue, they're kind of a big deal. If you're unfamiliar with the setting as to ignore all this, idk if your opinion on its changes can be of much use to this discussion.
Even then, this is just my salty opinion, you still have the right to give your own and be respected
S.T.U.P.I.D