I've always loved Hobgoblins. My DM used them as a kind of Roman army type, very well organized, political, efficient, and cruel. He said he modeled them after the Khazar, which I didn't know about at the time. Interesting about the connection with the tengu. Some Japanese have postulated the red tengu were Israelites who came to Japan after the Assyrian invasion. That links back to the Khzar. Fascinating stuff. Thanks for the video.
That is an absolutely fascinating connection. I'll have to look into the Israeli tengu connection. Also I think the khazars are a fantastic Empire to base some of your civilizations on in fantasy. They've got such an interesting story being the only Jewish steppe horde And I feel like outside of historical circles they are not well known enough.
@@kid9893 Thanks for the reply. So true. There are books by Arimasa Kubo on the subject of Israelites in Japan, perhaps the most extensive source. I've been to Mt. Kurama, the supposed tengu hotspot of Japan.
@@kid9893 Supernatural. Crazy energy. They say the tengu taught Yoshitsune Minamoto the way of the sword there. When my friend and I were walking up the hiking trail, we got hit by this wall of force that knocked us back. I have no idea why or what that was, but we both experienced it.
I've always been heavily influenced by Star Trek and my hobgoblins are modified Next Generation Klingons - including their martial culture, their deep sense of honor, etc. I go back and forth on having a 'hobgoblin sword' patterned after the Bat'leth. In my world, most known hobgoblins are slowly being brought under the control of a single emperor who is trying to shift them to Lawful Neutral and I've set up a China v. Taiwan situation between their empire and a small human colony on lands the hobs claim as theirs (the humans wiped out a small hobgoblin tribe to claim the land). B/c of political situation, the hobs can't simply take the land while they are consolidating all their different tribes but are extremely confident the humans will make good citizens of the Empire someday (soon).
That's a really cool setup. You know it's interesting I actually originally was wondering how much the Klingons did affect hobgoblins in their creation because the designers of dungeons and dragons were heavily inspired by Star Trek. Unfortunately Klingons came out a bit too late to really influence the first editions of hobgoblins but it's nice to see you also see that connection I saw.
@@kid9893 · Star Trek aired from 1966 through 1969. Klingons are introduced in the first season. That is in plenty of time to influence D&D and AD&D Hobgoblins.
@@CooperativeWaffles I had (have in storage?) the original Kingdoms of Kalamar boxed set - a lot of work went into that setting. I'm going to have to go through my stuff at my brothers storage unit this Christmas and see if I can find it....
Yes and no, the issue is Klingons in the first season of Star Trek or simply vaguely Asian and Oriental that might be standing for the Soviet Union. They don't get reimagined and have any real cultural traits outside of not supporting and being hostile to the federation until Star Trek the motion picture in 79. Dungeons & dragons first edition, well the one we're talking about first, came out in 74. At best they are vaguely related there's no clear delineation I could find in all my research. If you find something please post it because I'll glad to make an update.
Bugbear is a weird sounding name, but I think of it the same way enemies are named in Halo. That's not what they're actually called, it's just what humans call them. I much prefer the Eberron names for the goblinoids. In the goblin language of Eberron they're referred to as Guul'dar, which just sounds a lot cooler. I really like D&D goblin lore though, I find it all rather interesting and kinda fun. I find it unique that as a race they aren't really related at all but were brought together by their individual pantheons being broken and conquered by Maglubiyte. I take it a little bit further though by considering anyone who worships Maglubiyte to be considered a goblinoid and no longer considered a member of their original race. In my homebrew setting I took large chunks of what I liked from the default D&D stuff and made them a much bigger faction. I modelled them a lot after the covenant in Halo. As a faction they seek to take control of the entire world and conquering it in the name of their god. The ghaal'dar (hobgoblins) would functionally have a culture modeled a lot after the sangheili (elites) from Halo.
The Covenant is a great way to model the goblin races. That's such a good idea. And yeah Eberon tends to eat everyone else's lunch for it's lore. It's great
I like that the modern (5e) Hobgoblin are militaristic and capable. I use this as a threat that arises on occasion, when the Hobgoblin have marshaled an army of Goblins, Bugbears and of course their own troops.
Couple of ideas: -Maybe oriental-flavor hobgoblins partly came from Tolkien’s descriptions of “sallow,” slant-eyed [half-orcs] in LotR? -The ape-association and your description at 12:39 reminds me of mandrills. -If you ain’t a bugbear fan, you could rename/restyle them as “hob/goblin brutes.” (edit: You pretty much said this.) -The hobgoblins have lactose tolerance a la Mongolians - a 'rarity' for Asians.
I considered Tolkien might have had an influence but that wouldn't explain the Orcs not being given this treatment. They would fit more logically since hobgoblin is only mentioned in the preface of the hobbit. I like the lactose tolerance thing, I never considered that connection. Its fun.
@@kid9893 It is worth to mention that many spirits are shape-shifters. And if they appear as more or less human may depend on they stance. Why it is so hard to find Unicorn? Because as magical dragons they can and commonly do change they shapes. Like in famous story of Smith, defeating Serpent to save the Virgin (or cow). Actually all three are the dragons! (aka elemental gods or in fact the angels, who are described in exact same way) This same may be true in case of hobgoblins. Who look more friendly, more they like you.
I have a tendancy to forget about hobgoblins. There are so many humanoids of such a similar nature that finding a logical place for them all can be troublesome. I use goblins most, seldom use orcs, and hobgoblins have never really been used except in a way similar to their Warhammer style. While they looked like D&D hobgoblins, I made them the equivelant of the huns and mongols in a setting where they had a massive territory of roaving hordes but also central imperial city.
Yeah back in the original dungeons & dragons monsters didn't level up so goblins were always level one. Instead of fighting level two or three goblins, you fought different foes that were more powerful versions of previous ones. So you would go Goblin to hobgoblin to orc to troll to giant for example.
Great video as always. It's amazing how the history starts with annoying little sprites yet ends up with a disciplined race of sailors and warriors in an unreleased setting. I'd honestly love to play a hobgoblin if their depiction is akin to Enoss's.
Started dnd with 5th Ed. I Really liked the Roman aspect of the Hobgoblins. I’m excited later supplements allow you to play as one, got a character in mind when I finally do.
Love the video just discovered you. Side nite in brownies a great book featuring one is called "dragon rider" it's a giid read if you get the chance. Now how I run hobgoblins in my setting. They are a native race to a continent known as "the cursed lands" where they call themselfs "Bloodmoon tribe" My inspiration for them is a mix of Native American influences meeting Mongolian influences. Lawful evil but support the Native gnomes to help them recover their own near dying race from a war with dragons that took alot of thier technology being lost in the war. I kept the hated of elfs specifically do to in my setting they used to be slaves to the drow. They left the underdark after a failed war against said drow over lords and found the moon in the sky blood red (after effects of a bomb that went off during the gnom dragon war) it didn't help thiers an high elfin faction that showed up trying to claim the land too from the blood moons. So the hate to elfs is generational and mostly do to history. Looking forward to your future stuff learned more about these awsome creatures from you did give me more ideas for my blood moons.
I will look into Dragon Rider, always happy to add new fantasy to my repertoire. I like that, there's so much great stuff that native American cultures have gone for them it's really cool to see them represented in another fantasy. I like that they are still pretty violent like you said but also have enough nobility to want to protect the gnomes. That's a fantastic twist and really shows the difference between somebody who's from a lawful evil society versus a chaotic evil one.
On the subject of the DnD hobgoblin having Asian themed armor, it's probably a reference to one of Tolkien's letters wherein he describes orcs using the word Mongoloid. Though the term was used to describe a large swath of humanity beyond Asia, it is still strongly associated with Asian peoples. And since the various subtypes of Tolkien's orcs appear to be the archetypes the goblins, hobgoblins, orcs, and bugbears of DnD were based on, they may have used that brief mention to differentiate the hobgoblins from the physically similar orcs. Speaking on my own work, I've taken my own spin on hobgoblins originally being household spirits. In my setting, goblin refers less to a single race and more a category of nearly infinite near identical subtypes of a near-human race. Each subtype believes they are the original goblin type and all the rest are sadly degraded versions of themselves. Hobgoblins, as well as hobs, hoblins, hobles, hobey, howie, huggae, hoggart, and hobear to name a few, are known for building and maintaining better homes and settlements than other goblins. The orc protagonist of my story has to regularly deal with the petty squabbles of a troop of hobgoblins sharing living space with another group of aquatic goblins on an estate he is granted.
I thought about the mongoloid thing as well but we don't see that same Asian treatment for regular goblins and orcs so it stands out as weird for hobgoblins but perhaps you're right. Maybe the only wanted hobgovins to have that. As for your setting and story that's really cool actually, I can dig it. I can just picture a situation where some goblins, some hobgoblins, and some kobolds are all at a bar arguing about who is the "true" race.
@@kid9893 And they'd be in that bar for hours arguing over the most minute differences between them. I got the idea for them from looking over the descriptions of various folklore creatures and seeing how many seemed to be regional variations of the same type of creature or had overlapping characteristics. I found a lot I wanted to use and figured it would be easier to make one race ridiculously varied than to make a dozen very similar individual races.
If you like that type of creature, I recommend checking out my Kobolds video since they also are sort of everywhere too. th-cam.com/video/kYzNQxz4TnI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2RuCJWmJyxDxGRKQ
In one campaign I played in Hobgoblins and Bugbears were, or descendants of, goblins Barguest hybrids. Bugbears favoring their father from the Bleak Eternity more. Wargs shared a similar disturbing origin with the shapeshifting Barguest. A few extremely rare individuals even had the outsider ancestor perk boosting their stats.
That's some super cool lore. Stuff like that makes you actually want to play something with the name like bugbear. Unfortunately the dungeons and dragons lore is incredibly lacking for them.
Another appearance of Brownies is in the show American Dragon: Jake Long. As for Hobgoblins, they also appeared in Spiderwick Chronicles. They share the regular goblins toothless nature, and the official beastiary mentions one Hobgoblin acting as a sort of Tooth Fairy collecting baby teeth for himself.
I didn't know about the Jake Long appearance that's kind of cool I have to look into that and see if they do any other interesting mythical stuff. Oh really? That's kind of awesome that he's of their tooth fairy stand-in. I kind of like that.
my understanding is the early hobgoblin art (holmes and AD&D ) was based on the samurai minis that gary used at his table. i heard this in an interview with ernie or tim kask
regarding Gary and the Carnivorous Apes - he was a big fan of sword and sorcery, like Conan, and apes and man-apes of all sorts were huge in the genre.
Oh my gosh yes. It's really nice to see that setting starting to get more love on TH-cam. I have been thinking about covering it for a video eventually.
There's a lot of love for them in this comment section. It's making me maybe reconsider my hatred. I don't think I'll ever get over the name but maybe I can work on that.
@@kid9893 If anything, seeing you making a humorous Bugbear response video would be the highlight of entertaining with all the sass you can put into it. 😁
If we were closer to April fools I 100% would do that. Maybe that is the April fool's video, I'll make a serious bugbear video next and then have a bugbear enjoyer response video for April fools
@kid9893 "The Threat from the Sea" is the big one, there is also an aquatic novels anthology and I think maybe in "Coral Kingdom" of Druidhome they get a mention but maybe not an appearance. I don't recall if they had a proper stat block or art tho lol, they may have just been a subheading under Hobgoblin I'd have to search the books lol
@@kid9893 And thank you for your cool and informative videos! Druidhome trilogy and the anthology are 2e now that I've thought about it more, I read them a few years back in prep for an aquatic campaign. Anyway, "The Threat from the Sea," is 3e era for the second half of the series (published 1999-2000) and very good :) I read it in omnibus form.
@@kid9893 yep. They’re not a pivotal point of the series, but they’re mentioned several times after book 4. Fae entities in general play a massive role in the series.
on hobgoblins as samurai, i think the first time i saw them waring eastern style armor was actually in Warhammer fantasy role play first edition. the hobgoblins, while related to the other greenskins in the setting, were often depicted as wolf riders fomr the east... kind of like their version of Mongolians. in later editions they were connected to the chaos dwarfs as well. not 100% sure if this is where dnd picked up on the idea 9and GW might have gotten the idea form the Tengu as you suggested)
Bugbear : in D20 compendium ultimate prestige classes for 3rd & 3.5 D&D there was monster prestige class (dark ranger) only viable to bugbear race which turned my opinion of them which was similar to yours originally if doing vid on does happen hope this is remembered for a side note or shout out
So i finished the video for bugbears last night at 3 am before I read your comment. I did manage to track down the book and class you are talking about and while it seems very cool, it seems like an expansion on what's already there, not some new twist. Unfortunately it wont be in the video since its processing on TH-cam now, but I wanted to thank you for such an interesting piece of third party lore I missed.
1:35 every restaurant in Texas What would you like to drink? What kinda cokes yall got? Coke, Diet Coke, Dr. Pepper, Sprite and Fanta I’ll take a Dr. Pepper, please.
Warhammer Homgoblins are also slaves to Chaos dwarfs, but because of in fighting with orcs, the hobgoblins act as the administration, and because of population issues, the hob goblins make up most of there army. Also I believe there called hobgoblins because orks have a hunch back, while goblins stand up straight. So Hobgoblins who are in-between the two. They don't have a full hunched back and walk with a hobble. So Hobgoblin. Also the hobgoblins in Warcraft Goblins live on Azeroth (the human planet) and might be related to the trolls. The trolls inslaved them but because of magical rocks, the goblins became smart and over threw the Trolls. The Goblins are super smart and ruthless, and often inslave there own race, so becoming a Hobgoblin and being a trade bosses mussel is one of the better jobs. Now Ogres are in the setting, but they comes the planet Draenor. Dranenor is where the orcs come from. Ogres shrank down into a orcs, and inslaved the Orcs. The Orcs raised up and inslaved the Ogers. Ogers later broke off from the Orcs after thy lost the 2d war. At this point the orcs where shattered to the point that they could barely mount a real army until Thrall. So the Hobgoblins are in most fantasy, small and then become human sized, while the Ogers in Warcraft are large and become more human sized.
Two things that aren't quite right 1. The Cleveland Browns are named after Paul Brown, their first head coach. 2. The white box set is what is called Original D&D (OD&D), not 1st edition AD&D. While it isn't entirely wrong to say OD&D became AD&D, since that is the progenitor of all D&D editions, it's misleadingly stated.
13:24 Thought you said "the Japanese version of Tingle" here and the only thing that made me question if I'd heard it right is that Tingle is already the Japanese version of Tingle. Other than that, I was willing to just roll with the idea of hobgoblins being connected to the 35-year-old man from the Legend of Zelda who wants to be a fairy.
That's what it's sort of become but originally it meant the opposite. Which is kind of funny when you look at how language works and words change so much.
I love goblins and hobgoblins, but I gotta say man, not a fan of the ai imagery you're using in the background here. The video is informative but I know you can do better ;)
Which photos are AI? I really tried my best to make sure I didn't get any AI and if you can link to the ones that are for the backgrounds I Will gladly remove them from future videos. I try not to use AI at all unless it's for something like generating the hobgoblin team for the Cleveland browns which was not something I could have had made otherwise.
@@kid9893 Sorry for the delay on the reply, 0:00 to 1:19, 2:14 to 3:17, 6:43 to 7:16 and 14:03 to 15:14, all of these segments feature AI art in the background. I would also recommend looking into commissioning people for art work of the things you've ai generated as you seem to know what you want image wise, and artist's bring their own style (and who doesn't like making connections with people ;) ) Additional, outside of talk of AI, I found the segment on Hobgoblins and their design change to something more asian inspired, with comparisons to the tengu, to be somewhat interesting, although, I must admit I'm hesitant to take it wholesale as I question what folks at D&D had in terms of reference to pull from for their monsters. I wonder, if their scope of information was limited at the time, then it was more about pulling from somewhere "foreign" for the designers, but that's me making a biased assumption. Gotta consider the perspectives and information available at the time ^^'
In it Lord of the rings I think so. However they are smaller than regular orcs in dungeons & dragons which means that orcs would be Uruk-Hai of that setting
Found this video from the Bugbear history. Worth it.
Hey that's great! I hope you like them both!
I've always loved Hobgoblins. My DM used them as a kind of Roman army type, very well organized, political, efficient, and cruel. He said he modeled them after the Khazar, which I didn't know about at the time. Interesting about the connection with the tengu. Some Japanese have postulated the red tengu were Israelites who came to Japan after the Assyrian invasion. That links back to the Khzar. Fascinating stuff. Thanks for the video.
That is an absolutely fascinating connection. I'll have to look into the Israeli tengu connection. Also I think the khazars are a fantastic Empire to base some of your civilizations on in fantasy. They've got such an interesting story being the only Jewish steppe horde And I feel like outside of historical circles they are not well known enough.
@@kid9893 Thanks for the reply. So true. There are books by Arimasa Kubo on the subject of Israelites in Japan, perhaps the most extensive source. I've been to Mt. Kurama, the supposed tengu hotspot of Japan.
Oh that's super cool, how was the mountain?
@@kid9893 Supernatural. Crazy energy. They say the tengu taught Yoshitsune Minamoto the way of the sword there. When my friend and I were walking up the hiking trail, we got hit by this wall of force that knocked us back. I have no idea why or what that was, but we both experienced it.
That's a wicked experience! I could see why they have it sacred.
I've always been heavily influenced by Star Trek and my hobgoblins are modified Next Generation Klingons - including their martial culture, their deep sense of honor, etc. I go back and forth on having a 'hobgoblin sword' patterned after the Bat'leth. In my world, most known hobgoblins are slowly being brought under the control of a single emperor who is trying to shift them to Lawful Neutral and I've set up a China v. Taiwan situation between their empire and a small human colony on lands the hobs claim as theirs (the humans wiped out a small hobgoblin tribe to claim the land). B/c of political situation, the hobs can't simply take the land while they are consolidating all their different tribes but are extremely confident the humans will make good citizens of the Empire someday (soon).
That's a really cool setup. You know it's interesting I actually originally was wondering how much the Klingons did affect hobgoblins in their creation because the designers of dungeons and dragons were heavily inspired by Star Trek. Unfortunately Klingons came out a bit too late to really influence the first editions of hobgoblins but it's nice to see you also see that connection I saw.
Consider buying the release Kenzer & Company about Hobgoblins for their 3.5e setting Kingdoms of Kalamar.
@@kid9893 · Star Trek aired from 1966 through 1969. Klingons are introduced in the first season. That is in plenty of time to influence D&D and AD&D Hobgoblins.
@@CooperativeWaffles I had (have in storage?) the original Kingdoms of Kalamar boxed set - a lot of work went into that setting. I'm going to have to go through my stuff at my brothers storage unit this Christmas and see if I can find it....
Yes and no, the issue is Klingons in the first season of Star Trek or simply vaguely Asian and Oriental that might be standing for the Soviet Union. They don't get reimagined and have any real cultural traits outside of not supporting and being hostile to the federation until Star Trek the motion picture in 79. Dungeons & dragons first edition, well the one we're talking about first, came out in 74. At best they are vaguely related there's no clear delineation I could find in all my research. If you find something please post it because I'll glad to make an update.
Bugbear is a weird sounding name, but I think of it the same way enemies are named in Halo. That's not what they're actually called, it's just what humans call them. I much prefer the Eberron names for the goblinoids. In the goblin language of Eberron they're referred to as Guul'dar, which just sounds a lot cooler.
I really like D&D goblin lore though, I find it all rather interesting and kinda fun. I find it unique that as a race they aren't really related at all but were brought together by their individual pantheons being broken and conquered by Maglubiyte. I take it a little bit further though by considering anyone who worships Maglubiyte to be considered a goblinoid and no longer considered a member of their original race.
In my homebrew setting I took large chunks of what I liked from the default D&D stuff and made them a much bigger faction. I modelled them a lot after the covenant in Halo. As a faction they seek to take control of the entire world and conquering it in the name of their god. The ghaal'dar (hobgoblins) would functionally have a culture modeled a lot after the sangheili (elites) from Halo.
The Covenant is a great way to model the goblin races. That's such a good idea. And yeah Eberon tends to eat everyone else's lunch for it's lore. It's great
I like that the modern (5e) Hobgoblin are militaristic and capable. I use this as a threat that arises on occasion, when the Hobgoblin have marshaled an army of Goblins, Bugbears and of course their own troops.
I also really like it. It gives them a good spot next to Orcs and goblins in this setting. Way better than they were originally.
Couple of ideas:
-Maybe oriental-flavor hobgoblins partly came from Tolkien’s descriptions of “sallow,” slant-eyed [half-orcs] in LotR?
-The ape-association and your description at 12:39 reminds me of mandrills.
-If you ain’t a bugbear fan, you could rename/restyle them as “hob/goblin brutes.” (edit: You pretty much said this.)
-The hobgoblins have lactose tolerance a la Mongolians - a 'rarity' for Asians.
I considered Tolkien might have had an influence but that wouldn't explain the Orcs not being given this treatment. They would fit more logically since hobgoblin is only mentioned in the preface of the hobbit.
I like the lactose tolerance thing, I never considered that connection. Its fun.
Never realized how tied together these creatures were through history. Great video.
Thank you! Yeah, this video took a while because I kept finding new things that I had to investigate.
@@kid9893 It is worth to mention that many spirits are shape-shifters. And if they appear as more or less human may depend on they stance. Why it is so hard to find Unicorn? Because as magical dragons they can and commonly do change they shapes. Like in famous story of Smith, defeating Serpent to save the Virgin (or cow). Actually all three are the dragons! (aka elemental gods or in fact the angels, who are described in exact same way) This same may be true in case of hobgoblins. Who look more friendly, more they like you.
Yeah. Back in the day fantasy was far less solidified since it was all folklore. Now they get given more solid forms and roles.
I have a tendancy to forget about hobgoblins. There are so many humanoids of such a similar nature that finding a logical place for them all can be troublesome. I use goblins most, seldom use orcs, and hobgoblins have never really been used except in a way similar to their Warhammer style. While they looked like D&D hobgoblins, I made them the equivelant of the huns and mongols in a setting where they had a massive territory of roaving hordes but also central imperial city.
Yeah back in the original dungeons & dragons monsters didn't level up so goblins were always level one. Instead of fighting level two or three goblins, you fought different foes that were more powerful versions of previous ones. So you would go Goblin to hobgoblin to orc to troll to giant for example.
Great video as always. It's amazing how the history starts with annoying little sprites yet ends up with a disciplined race of sailors and warriors in an unreleased setting. I'd honestly love to play a hobgoblin if their depiction is akin to Enoss's.
Thank you for the kind words Mazrim. Their wild evolution is not something I expected but something I'm glad to have contributed to.
bugbears in folklore are actually pretty interesting.
That is true, that would be the majority of the video and I'm not sure how many people know about their past.
Whoa! The algorithm brought me here because I love hobgoblins
Well I'm glad you're here now friend! Enjoy this and the rest of the videos.
Started dnd with 5th Ed. I Really liked the Roman aspect of the Hobgoblins. I’m excited later supplements allow you to play as one, got a character in mind when I finally do.
Missed this series
Me too, I was making other videos and didn't realize just how long it had been since we had one.
Damn it, kid. All that talk of brownies near the beginning is making me crave brownies
I'm sorry my friend, you're not the only one who's plagued by it. They are quite tasty little folks.
Love the video just discovered you.
Side nite in brownies a great book featuring one is called "dragon rider" it's a giid read if you get the chance.
Now how I run hobgoblins in my setting.
They are a native race to a continent known as "the cursed lands" where they call themselfs "Bloodmoon tribe"
My inspiration for them is a mix of Native American influences meeting Mongolian influences. Lawful evil but support the Native gnomes to help them recover their own near dying race from a war with dragons that took alot of thier technology being lost in the war.
I kept the hated of elfs specifically do to in my setting they used to be slaves to the drow. They left the underdark after a failed war against said drow over lords and found the moon in the sky blood red (after effects of a bomb that went off during the gnom dragon war) it didn't help thiers an high elfin faction that showed up trying to claim the land too from the blood moons. So the hate to elfs is generational and mostly do to history.
Looking forward to your future stuff learned more about these awsome creatures from you did give me more ideas for my blood moons.
I will look into Dragon Rider, always happy to add new fantasy to my repertoire.
I like that, there's so much great stuff that native American cultures have gone for them it's really cool to see them represented in another fantasy.
I like that they are still pretty violent like you said but also have enough nobility to want to protect the gnomes. That's a fantastic twist and really shows the difference between somebody who's from a lawful evil society versus a chaotic evil one.
On the subject of the DnD hobgoblin having Asian themed armor, it's probably a reference to one of Tolkien's letters wherein he describes orcs using the word Mongoloid. Though the term was used to describe a large swath of humanity beyond Asia, it is still strongly associated with Asian peoples. And since the various subtypes of Tolkien's orcs appear to be the archetypes the goblins, hobgoblins, orcs, and bugbears of DnD were based on, they may have used that brief mention to differentiate the hobgoblins from the physically similar orcs.
Speaking on my own work, I've taken my own spin on hobgoblins originally being household spirits. In my setting, goblin refers less to a single race and more a category of nearly infinite near identical subtypes of a near-human race. Each subtype believes they are the original goblin type and all the rest are sadly degraded versions of themselves. Hobgoblins, as well as hobs, hoblins, hobles, hobey, howie, huggae, hoggart, and hobear to name a few, are known for building and maintaining better homes and settlements than other goblins. The orc protagonist of my story has to regularly deal with the petty squabbles of a troop of hobgoblins sharing living space with another group of aquatic goblins on an estate he is granted.
I thought about the mongoloid thing as well but we don't see that same Asian treatment for regular goblins and orcs so it stands out as weird for hobgoblins but perhaps you're right. Maybe the only wanted hobgovins to have that.
As for your setting and story that's really cool actually, I can dig it. I can just picture a situation where some goblins, some hobgoblins, and some kobolds are all at a bar arguing about who is the "true" race.
@@kid9893 And they'd be in that bar for hours arguing over the most minute differences between them. I got the idea for them from looking over the descriptions of various folklore creatures and seeing how many seemed to be regional variations of the same type of creature or had overlapping characteristics. I found a lot I wanted to use and figured it would be easier to make one race ridiculously varied than to make a dozen very similar individual races.
If you like that type of creature, I recommend checking out my Kobolds video since they also are sort of everywhere too.
th-cam.com/video/kYzNQxz4TnI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2RuCJWmJyxDxGRKQ
was great! would Hob my Gob again
Would Job my Bob again.
Neat video chief!
Glad you enjoyed it
Bro brought up Spiderwick and didn’t even mention hogsqueals magic spit
You're right I probably should have focused on that little bit more since like I said he's a bit unique compared to everybody else.
In one campaign I played in Hobgoblins and Bugbears were, or descendants of, goblins Barguest hybrids. Bugbears favoring their father from the Bleak Eternity more. Wargs shared a similar disturbing origin with the shapeshifting Barguest. A few extremely rare individuals even had the outsider ancestor perk boosting their stats.
That's some super cool lore. Stuff like that makes you actually want to play something with the name like bugbear. Unfortunately the dungeons and dragons lore is incredibly lacking for them.
Another appearance of Brownies is in the show American Dragon: Jake Long.
As for Hobgoblins, they also appeared in Spiderwick Chronicles. They share the regular goblins toothless nature, and the official beastiary mentions one Hobgoblin acting as a sort of Tooth Fairy collecting baby teeth for himself.
I didn't know about the Jake Long appearance that's kind of cool I have to look into that and see if they do any other interesting mythical stuff.
Oh really? That's kind of awesome that he's of their tooth fairy stand-in. I kind of like that.
Neat concept
Thank you!
"Hondo's Honor" ... is a short story about a hobgoblin captain. It's free online... It was so good, that it would have made a great novel....
Girl Scout’s grade school level, Brownies, are also named after the folklore creatures.
That explains their magical abilities to sell me cookies every year.
my understanding is the early hobgoblin art (holmes and AD&D ) was based on the samurai minis that gary used at his table. i heard this in an interview with ernie or tim kask
If you find that interview that would be amazing I would love to do a follow-up with more evidence because I couldn't find anything about that.
Never been this early
Congratulations 👏👏👏
regarding Gary and the Carnivorous Apes - he was a big fan of sword and sorcery, like Conan, and apes and man-apes of all sorts were huge in the genre.
Great research, well done
Thank you my friend. I tried to cover as much territory as possible.
There is some fun hobgoblin stuff in the “ink and sigil” books that are a spin-off of the “iron Druid” series
Anbennar Hobgoblins just gave me a trauma!!!😅😅
Oh my gosh yes. It's really nice to see that setting starting to get more love on TH-cam. I have been thinking about covering it for a video eventually.
Gotta comment to Rep Bugbears solely cause you said don’t do it~ 🤣
There's a lot of love for them in this comment section. It's making me maybe reconsider my hatred. I don't think I'll ever get over the name but maybe I can work on that.
@@kid9893 If anything, seeing you making a humorous Bugbear response video would be the highlight of entertaining with all the sass you can put into it. 😁
If we were closer to April fools I 100% would do that. Maybe that is the April fool's video, I'll make a serious bugbear video next and then have a bugbear enjoyer response video for April fools
Now that sounds peak right there. 👌
Check the channel my friend.
The letting others practice their religion is also more of a connection to Mongolian Empire then Roman since they have that sort of vision.
Yes that is true. They were far more tolerant.
Aquatic hobgoblins were in 3e, and were in a few of the aquatic novels for Forgotten Realms
The wiki said they were absent. If i was mistaken I am sorry. If you remember the title of the book I would love to see it.
@kid9893 "The Threat from the Sea" is the big one, there is also an aquatic novels anthology and I think maybe in "Coral Kingdom" of Druidhome they get a mention but maybe not an appearance. I don't recall if they had a proper stat block or art tho lol, they may have just been a subheading under Hobgoblin I'd have to search the books lol
Thank you for the reply. I will track these down immediately.
@@kid9893 And thank you for your cool and informative videos! Druidhome trilogy and the anthology are 2e now that I've thought about it more, I read them a few years back in prep for an aquatic campaign. Anyway, "The Threat from the Sea," is 3e era for the second half of the series (published 1999-2000) and very good :) I read it in omnibus form.
Another little tidbit, "robin goodfellow(s)" are also tied in to hobgoblins
Brownies also appear several times in the Harry Dresden series of novels
Do they now? I actually just picked up that series after years of hearing about it so I will look forward to finding them in there.
@@kid9893 yep. They’re not a pivotal point of the series, but they’re mentioned several times after book 4. Fae entities in general play a massive role in the series.
on hobgoblins as samurai, i think the first time i saw them waring eastern style armor was actually in Warhammer fantasy role play first edition. the hobgoblins, while related to the other greenskins in the setting, were often depicted as wolf riders fomr the east... kind of like their version of Mongolians. in later editions they were connected to the chaos dwarfs as well.
not 100% sure if this is where dnd picked up on the idea 9and GW might have gotten the idea form the Tengu as you suggested)
Bugbear : in D20 compendium ultimate prestige classes for 3rd & 3.5 D&D there was monster prestige class (dark ranger) only viable to bugbear race which turned my opinion of them which was similar to yours originally if doing vid on does happen hope this is remembered for a side note or shout out
So i finished the video for bugbears last night at 3 am before I read your comment. I did manage to track down the book and class you are talking about and while it seems very cool, it seems like an expansion on what's already there, not some new twist. Unfortunately it wont be in the video since its processing on TH-cam now, but I wanted to thank you for such an interesting piece of third party lore I missed.
Talk about bugbears! I honestly have no idea what their deal is at all
Maybe I should, from a folklore perspective they got some cool stuff.
That description of Hobgoblins sounds an awful lot like a mandrill.
You're right! I had considered them but couldn't find any exact references the designers made to them but I would 100% bet they were inspired by them.
1:35 every restaurant in Texas
What would you like to drink?
What kinda cokes yall got?
Coke, Diet Coke, Dr. Pepper, Sprite and Fanta
I’ll take a Dr. Pepper, please.
Warhammer Homgoblins are also slaves to Chaos dwarfs, but because of in fighting with orcs, the hobgoblins act as the administration, and because of population issues, the hob goblins make up most of there army.
Also I believe there called hobgoblins because orks have a hunch back, while goblins stand up straight.
So Hobgoblins who are in-between the two. They don't have a full hunched back and walk with a hobble. So Hobgoblin.
Also the hobgoblins in Warcraft Goblins live on Azeroth (the human planet) and might be related to the trolls. The trolls inslaved them but because of magical rocks, the goblins became smart and over threw the Trolls.
The Goblins are super smart and ruthless, and often inslave there own race, so becoming a Hobgoblin and being a trade bosses mussel is one of the better jobs.
Now Ogres are in the setting, but they comes the planet Draenor. Dranenor is where the orcs come from.
Ogres shrank down into a orcs, and inslaved the Orcs. The Orcs raised up and inslaved the Ogers.
Ogers later broke off from the Orcs after thy lost the 2d war. At this point the orcs where shattered to the point that they could barely mount a real army until Thrall.
So the Hobgoblins are in most fantasy, small and then become human sized, while the Ogers in Warcraft are large and become more human sized.
Need the bug bear vid bud
Maybe I should make one. There's a lot more people wanting it than I expected. I'll look into them.
Hobgoblins because they hobble along because they have such short legs that they don't have a regular gait?
That would be neat. Definitely would make them have something unique. Maybe their legs are bowed from years of horseback riding.
@@kid9893 , nah, just straight up how their bones develop. Just hobbling along spouting curses, both linguistic and magical.
Two things that aren't quite right
1. The Cleveland Browns are named after Paul Brown, their first head coach.
2. The white box set is what is called Original D&D (OD&D), not 1st edition AD&D. While it isn't entirely wrong to say OD&D became AD&D, since that is the progenitor of all D&D editions, it's misleadingly stated.
Bugbears!!
Check back to the channel in a few hours. You might be surprised.
13:24 Thought you said "the Japanese version of Tingle" here and the only thing that made me question if I'd heard it right is that Tingle is already the Japanese version of Tingle. Other than that, I was willing to just roll with the idea of hobgoblins being connected to the 35-year-old man from the Legend of Zelda who wants to be a fairy.
1st edition hobgoblins were stronger than orcs, taller, and at 1+1 hit dice instead of 1.
Are you sure about that? Because I remember back in the day you were to fight goblins than Hob goblins and then bug bears then Gnoll then Orcs.
@@kid9893 well, does it get any more "back in the day" than the A series?
A1: Orcs.
A2: Hobgoblins.
A3: Gnolls.
A4: all of the above.
@@kid9893 also, per 1e MM, Hobgoblins are about 6" taller, and per DMG, are Str 15 while Orcs are Str 12.
I stand corrected. Thank you for the update
I've always understood that Hobgoblin pretty much means High Goblin, pretty much like High Elf is for elves
That's what it's sort of become but originally it meant the opposite. Which is kind of funny when you look at how language works and words change so much.
I love goblins and hobgoblins, but I gotta say man, not a fan of the ai imagery you're using in the background here. The video is informative but I know you can do better ;)
Which photos are AI? I really tried my best to make sure I didn't get any AI and if you can link to the ones that are for the backgrounds I Will gladly remove them from future videos. I try not to use AI at all unless it's for something like generating the hobgoblin team for the Cleveland browns which was not something I could have had made otherwise.
@@kid9893 Sorry for the delay on the reply, 0:00 to 1:19, 2:14 to 3:17, 6:43 to 7:16 and 14:03 to 15:14, all of these segments feature AI art in the background. I would also recommend looking into commissioning people for art work of the things you've ai generated as you seem to know what you want image wise, and artist's bring their own style (and who doesn't like making connections with people ;) )
Additional, outside of talk of AI, I found the segment on Hobgoblins and their design change to something more asian inspired, with comparisons to the tengu, to be somewhat interesting, although, I must admit I'm hesitant to take it wholesale as I question what folks at D&D had in terms of reference to pull from for their monsters. I wonder, if their scope of information was limited at the time, then it was more about pulling from somewhere "foreign" for the designers, but that's me making a biased assumption. Gotta consider the perspectives and information available at the time ^^'
Honestly, I'm pretty sure Hobgoblins are just Uruk-Hai.
In it Lord of the rings I think so. However they are smaller than regular orcs in dungeons & dragons which means that orcs would be Uruk-Hai of that setting
Love them