The CORRECT way to Set Timing on Ford Engines with a Distributor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- To set the timing on Ford small block and Ford big block engines is simple if you follow these steps. This video covers: 5.0, 5.8, 390, 428, and other engines with distributors.
We cover setting the base timing on the vehicle and then how to adjust the advance on the distributor. Timing is one of the more critical settings to adjust as it controls when the spark plug fires in the cycle.
The distributor we are setting is a MSD Pro Billet race distributor, but the process should be "similar" with other distributors.
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Any tips on 1996 efi 5.8 bronco? I took the cap off, the small one by the firewall, set timing a 10 btdc put the cap on and it still goes to something like 15 atdc. If I leave the cap off, it stays at 10 btdc and runs great. It's a conundrum for me. What am I missing?
@@colt-ss3lw you are talking about the connector you removed right? It sounds like the distributor is advancing 25 degrees. -10 to +15. I know some newer cars are setup BTDC for emissions. Is that what your original sticker says?
@@SmackeysGarage 🤔 Original sticker? The 1996 bronco has an emissions sticker. Is that where I find timing for my specific truck? I followed the online ford manual.
@@SmackeysGarage 351 modified & Windsor say 10 btdc. Like I said, without putting that connector back it stays at 10 btdc @ 2000rpm. Put it in and it changes, so I left it out. Trucks running great. It just puzzles me and I want to know why. I think this is lost knowledge about the timing/efi/ecm system. Every mechanic I talk to, as soon as I mention efi, they throw up their hands and say, "you can't time a truck with efi the computer automatically sets timing." I haven't driven it far enough to get a mpg average yet, but before city was about 8 and highway was 10. I'll subscribe, fill up and check the mpg w/o the "cap/plug" in and give you an update.
Thank you for explaining the MSD timing chart in laymans terms. Awesome video!!!
Glad this was helpful for you britt!
Nice work! Good explanation, lots of camera angles, and diagrams showing what you're talking about. Your videos are getting really good!
Thanks Andy! I really appreciate the feedback. I've been trying to implement/learn something new every video.
On some or all of the old 223 cubic inch 6-cylinder engines, the ignition distributor had a single shaft, no speed related spark advance means. The carburetor had a small hole in the venturi which was to put a vacuum on the vacuum advance feature, along with a slot down by the throttle plate, also to supply vacuum to the vacuum advance diaphragm. A passageway which included a small, light plastic ball formed a tiny check valve so that when venturi vacuum was established, the said slot would be sealed off so that the venturi would become the sole vacuum source to advance the ignition timing. Such was the case in, for example, a '59 Fairlane 6 cylinder 3-speed manual transmission.
That's cool to hear about. It really is an interesting design to use a ball check valve like that in a space to cut off one of the vacuum sources.
Fantastic explanation!
Thanks Emersontayten!
I’ve been messing with measuring and marking my balancer and using a simple cheap timing light… I’m done. I’m getting the one you recommend.
The one I mentioned is definitely a nice tool. They are simple systems, but it is nice to have RPM on the screen as you set timing.
Thank you sir.. just wanted to tell you that you're doing a really good job at your video I watched 8-20-23... Trying to work with my 302 it's skipping and backfiring and popping out.. hopefully by replacing the sprockets or gears and timing chain by doing this, Maybe this will help my old 1995 Ford F150
Thanks, I appreciate it! When you were diagnosing it, was the timing jumping all over the place? I do like the 1995 F150. It had such a good look to it.
Great instructional video and how to for this critical tuning step.
Thanks! It was surprisingly easy when you get everything open and understand how timing works. Cool Galaxie BTW!
@@SmackeysGarage the Galaxie is definitely a work in progress, but your Stang is awesome!
Thank you!
Great video, very well explained, I hope to get my channel to this level. I liked and subscribed and am going to watch more of your videos.
Thanks Charley. I’m sure you will get there. Just keep posting and building that 68!
Nice FE. Thank you for saving real American made.
Love this car. I try to source as original as possible where I can! Thanks!
What engine are you running and what base timing are you running?
great video we'll made and brokwin down keep it up 💪👌💯
Thanks Anthony!
Cool channel man ! Tuning in to the CHannel
Thanks Diablito Speedz! Appreciate it! Hope you enjoy all that's coming!
Picked up a 72’ Lincoln Continental with the 460. Looks like they changed the carb but didn’t hook up the vacuum advance off the distributor… but I’m not seeing where to hook it up now with the new Edelbrock. I’m pretty green with this motor. Tips on what to do first?? Change to electronic ignition? Get the vacuum advance hooked up and check timing??
That’s awesome! Love those big Lincolns!!! I think on the edelbrocks the timed vacuum is on the front down low. I’d get it running well as is before you start changing things up. Maybe a tune up and new points. Otherwise I like the idea of electronic ignition first.
@@SmackeysGarage you’re awesome! I’ll check in the morning. Yep, less than 50k miles too. Thanks!
I have a 393ci windsor that was built for me 20 years ago. What would you suggest for total timing? It has 10.5 compression and afr 2.05 aluminium heads. Thanks
I'd say it is best to dyno it and adjust and find out. Each combo is unique. Do you know where you are at right now for total timing?
I'd guess 32-36ish as a starting point.
@SmackeysGarage engine was dyno'd back in 2003. I will see if they listed total timing . Thanks for the info
88 302, no timing marks on my balancer.. i need to advance it more and my distributor is rotated as far clockwise as i can with the TFI in the way. I need it to not be sitting next to the head.. which way do i rotate the crank with the distributor out to advance more?
Yikes, no timing marks at all on the balancer? They corrode off over time? I'd consider replacing the balancer to see where you really are. I'm not sure the answer to your question as I've never tried that. The fact that your TFI is hitting seems like you might be way off.
@@SmackeysGarage totally, i need it 45deg counter clockwise from where it's at. There is a lot of surface rust on it, probably wicked away over the years. I'm just wandering what a 45deg rotation of the TFI means in terms of degrees of timing on the balancer. every 0.56" on the balancer is 10deg of timing. If i know this i can figure it out without the timing marks on the balancer
I’m trying to figure out a 306 w/ 650 double pumper. I am guessing start with 10* BTDC and then check under the cap for the remainder? My question is, does MSD have a spring/bushing kit? Also, Say I am at 10* and under the cap is 28* and I want to be 32* total, can I back off to 4* BTDC and be equal?
Hey just want to make sure I understand. You have 10* initial and 28* advanced under the distributor. That would put you at 38* total.
If you are happy with the 10* initial, I'd put a spring that gets you 22* advanced to be at 32*. Changing the base to be that low may make the car more sluggish off the line.
Now every car is different. The best you can do is test out different scenario and see what works best for you. I'd start by changing the MSD springs and bushings. The second half of my video, I show how to change them on the carb. (MSD does sell a kit)
@@SmackeysGarage Thank you!
Anytime!
Current setup is 351W, Holley sniper EFI, Rpm air gap, rpm heads, X Cam, longtubes. What would be the best initial timing for me?
Tough question to answer because it really depends on the combo. Most small block Ford engines will work well with 10 BTDC.
What really matters, is Total Timing. USUALLY 30-34* Total is what small block ford's like. If you have want to get advanced, I would set the total timing in that range and take it out and listen for pinging under heavy loads. If you have 10 degrees base, and your distributor is adding 24*, then you would be at 34* total timing. If you bumped the distributor to 14 degrees, then you would be at 38 total timing. I would start by setting the base to 10 BTDC and see how it runs, understand what the total timing is, and then make adjustments from there. Do you know what your total timing is with your current setup?
I typically will find what total timing the vehicle likes the most, and then set base timing to what gives me the best off the line, and startup performance.
@@SmackeysGarage thanks for the info. Ive seen how to find total timing by revving the engine to 3k rpm and seeing where its at with the timing light. My conundrum there is do i do this with the vacuum advance connected or disconnected? ive seen that timing should be set with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged. Can you explain and fill the gaps for me on how that would work? much appreciated.
So your goal is to set the timing without any influence from the vacuum canister. To do that, pull the tube from the vacuum advance and cap it. If you do not cap it, the car will have a vacuum leak and not run right. The vacuum can adjusts the timing based on engine load to help efficiency. You do not need that to set timing. If you did leave it connected, which you shouldn’t do, the timing would jump all over the place.
I've got 2 vacuum lines coming off my distributor, 1 going straight up and 1 coming straight out, which do I pull off. or do I remove both of them ? Thanks
One for ported vacuum one for manifold vacuum?
When you are setting timing, you don't want to include any vacuum advance on it. I would pull both, you should see your base around 6-10* and then adjust from there. After you set mechanical advance, I would then take a look at your vacuum advance.
@@SmackeysGarage thank you
The vacuum going straight up goes to the manifold, the one straight out the front goes to the carburetor.
@@timothyfrost8807 One is "manifold vacuum" the other is "ported vacuum." The manifold vacuum source gives you vacuum advance at idle. Ported will give you the same vacuum but only when the throttle is cracked open.
I've never ran a dual source system like that. I'm curious what type of engine it is. Is it a 70s Ford engine?
Got a 302 here that was swapped to a carb from injection from a 93 cobra. Runs great now except wen u get into 4 barrel it pops. Just cleaned the carb and stuff too. Would yall possibly think it could b timing. Cant use a timing light either cuz the harmonic balancer is off
Was it running good before the carb swap? If so I’d check for a gap in the fuel when going from primary to secondary. Either the first shot is ending too early or the second shot is starting too late if it’s a double pumper.
Could also be timing if it’s way off at the upper end. No harmonic balancer as in you can’t read it or it isn’t reading accurate? If it isn’t reading accurate I’d start there.
Well i appreciate the reponse and i do think it is timing and def will get the harmonic balancer worked out. But tbh dont really know how to go about doing that
And off as in not reading accurate to tdc
@@countryboysgaming3032 I'd get that sorted first. Even grab one from a junk yard if you can.
Should just be a few bolts to remove the pulley and a large one for the balancer. You might need a puller for it though. I’d look up some videos on TH-cam on how to do it.
This may be silly question but I was reading on a forum about adjusting timing. The guys on the forum are saying when adjusting the timing you have to disconnect the "Spout" from the distributor. From what I gathered it's the actual wire harness that comes off the distributor. I noticed you didn't do this in your video. Is this something that you have to do? And nice car by the way.
Hey B Patt B, it is a good question. When they talk about disconnecting the spout, they are talking about removing the vacuum line from the vacuum advance. You do not want the vacuum advance changing the timing while you are trying to set the base timing. On my previous distributor, I would disconnect the vacuum advance, and then plug the line that goes to the carb (or cap it). After setting timing, you then reinstall it.
This distributor does not have a vacuum advance so there is no need to plug it. If you have a vacuum advance, it must be done to set the timing. Thank you!
@@SmackeysGarageThanks for the answer. I recently purchased a 65 for a really good deal. Little old lady kept it for a long time because it was her husbands. Only problem is no paperwork. It's got an MSD distributor, coil, and spark box. It had a 650 double pumper on it but as soon as I got it home and it sat for week the carb loaded the engine with gas. Stuck floats? I guess it could have got into the fuel pump? At any rate I replaced the carb with a Edelbrock 600 and a new fuel pump. I wish I knew what can was in, judging by how it sounds it's very lumpy lol. Anyway I got a little sidetracked after the carburetor switch I'm getting fogging at low RPMs and pops from the carburetor. Im going to try bumping the timing some tomorrow. On the harmonic balancer there is a mark on 10° so maybe it's at 10 and wants to be at 12-14. Anyway my family wants to see it so I'm going to put a little video of it up. Take a look.
Is it the "64 1/2 D Code" video? If so it sounds really good and looks to be in great shape. Definitely someone has taken care of it.
Sounds like you are going in the right direction with the pops through the carburetor. It's usually a timing issue where the intake valve isn't fully closed when the mixture ignites. I've also seen it happen when the engine is running too lean or not enough gas. It can also happen with bad plug wires or when wires are too close together and cross firing when they shouldn't be. Lot's to check.
Does it pop every time you rev it? I'm assuming it's happening when the engine is not hot and the choke is working. They are fun cars to work on and are pretty simple. I'm sure you will chase down what is causing it to happen in no time!
@@SmackeysGarage yeah that's my car. The registration had it listed as a 65 and I got to digging around on the VIN number and apparently D codes were only made in 64 and 1/2 and they are factory 289 4 barrels. Hopefully tomorrow in my new timing light shows up I'll get it dialed in and put up another video. Thanks for the help I appreciate it.
Since my truck is cammed how to I know how much I need to advance it
So I'd recommend finding someone with a similar combination as a starting point and workin from there. I'd do a google search to start. Timing depends on a lot of different factors in an engine.
After you get to a point where you feel more comfortable with it, you could start working with the advance and ensuring that the vehicle isn't detonating when under a load or normal driving.
Can you adjust the springs? Or are they preset by the manufacturer?
The springs are manufactured to certain rates. You cannot adjust the performance of the spring. You will need to change to a different color spring to change the timing.
Spring are different colors because they have different tensions. That's what the chart for. Always try to mount your coil straight up and down. Gives them longer lives plus DOSENT let oil leak out the nose. Either buy stickers and put them on your spark plug wires or a pen to save yourself spending the time to find firing order. Really just need to pull 4 wire on one side and move the cap out of the way.Retired Professional mechanic
New Ford Duraspark for 351C, 7000 rpm engine set up. All duraspark distributors have WAY too much mechanical advance built into them. Disassemble, removing reluctor wheel and underneath you will find advance mech. They are stamped for advance. Multiply by 2 for actual. Weld up the slot to limit movement to about 2/3 of original. This will make engine difficult to start hot. (how to fix later). Install in to engine. Block vacuum advance port on carb, disconnected from dist. Start engine and rev up till all advance is in looking at timing light. 36 degree total. Reconnect vacuum. Drive vehicle, and if it pings, add a 3 port tee into vacuum advance line with one port rubber plug that you can melt bigger and bigger hole till it quits pinging. All set.
Now hot start. The white wire on the Duraspark module (blue strain relief) can be used for a electronic retard for starting. Connect this to the starter relay so energized when cranking. Nitrous? Energize the white wire for nitrous retard. Now you have a race ignition that will make your engine zing when throttled!!!! Maybe add a little more accelerator pump squirt from carb also till very crisp!
Sounds like you have a great setup on that 351C running to 7K! Lot's of great information Ron. Thanks for commenting!!!
What are you doing to turn up timing moving bushing to a different location?
For the advance, you need to swap the bushing out for one of a different size. You have to buy a bushing and spring kit from MSD.
Where are you located and would you be interested in working on a 351 Cleveland in a 1972 grand Torino
I’m in New England. I only work on my cars typically. What’s going on with yours?
@@SmackeysGarage well I bought a 600 holly carb and I’m trying to figure out where should I run the hot wire it has an electric choke I keep getting told different places
Any place that is a switched 12v source on ignition only. Depending on how your cars wired I could see different answers. Does your car have a resistive ignition wire? The coil typically starts at 12v and then drops down while running on the distributor side
Working on a 351C 2v in my 72 mach 1 atm, been having some issues.
It originally ran off timing with the distributor rotor not lining up with 1 at TDC, and timing light can't see timing mark from front left, so I pulled the valve cover, verified the timing mark on the balance was indeed TDC, and set the rotor to point at 1. Now, it's no longer turning over, timing is way way off. Have a Pertronix D134620 distributor, new ignition coil, and have rebuilt the carb.
Figured if anyone might know it's the car people here lol, my distributor doesn't look anything like that though.
I'd check a few things. First, are you at TDC on the compression stroke? Can quickly check by rotating the distributor 180 and see if that helps.
Second, I'd check to see if you are using the right timing marks. A lot of Ford's with aftermarket balancers have multiple sets of timing marks.
@Smackey's Garage Thanks for the response! I found the issue. It was the factory balancer, but when I pulled it, the rubber had worn and shifted, causing the mistiming.
New balancer in and running great!
@@criseist9786 glad you figured it out!
I dont wanna wreck your 666 subs. Great video
It’s alright. I already got a photo of it! Thank you.
Just finding the number is insane.1000 videos on the basics i just need one number ??? btc or what ever for a 85 300 carbureted???
What car is it out of?
smackey how are u
I’m good. How are you auto salvage? How’s the projects been?
@@SmackeysGarage just now getting back at it we just reg for the nonamenatioals 23 and got our nnn car today
Nice! Did you post a video for what it is yet? I gotta check it out.
@@SmackeysGarage not yet its coming monday foxbody been getting some goodies lined up today
Oh man I’m excited for you!! I’ve been wanting one for a while. I’m looking forward to seeing it when you post.
Assuming we all use crappy mad stuff which most people are not. I’m just trying to time my stock junk Ford 460. No I would never buy a Ford and it was free and it reminds me daily why I would never buy a Ford. Loosing
What?
Sounds like you need knee high boots