I pour my own blanks (because I've worked with resin on other things for a couple of decades) and this is what I learned about drilling and turning. When drilling (which is where I got a lot of my blow-out), I start with a smaller, brad point bit. I mark the bit where it will bottom out on the blank and when I'm nearing that spot, I go really, really slow. The brad point bits will drill out the center part first. At this point, you have two options. You can turn the blank over and re-center with the point and drill from the opposite direction, or continue very, very slowly so the "wings" of the bit go through very slowly, minimizing blow out. Also, if you cut your blanks a 16th of an inch beyond where you would normally cut to square, any tiny blow out won't matter. After that, it's easy to size up the bit to cut the correct size hole. No wander, but then again, I use a drill press with a centering clamp I made myself. You don't need an expensive one. Just a couple of off-cuts with 2 45 degree cuts and place them in a drill press clamp and you're good. For turning, carbide tools all day. The round cutter can be used very gently to take the blank to round and then you can use the others as needed. Honestly, if you only bought ONE carbide tool, buy the round one. It can do everything start to finish (unless you're cutting grooves, then you'll need the diamond shaped one). Carbide bits cut acrylic like butter. Just be gentle with acrylic.
I have turned many wood pen blanks and have had only a couple of blowouts, however with about every other acrylic blank I have a blowout. This video definitely help eliminate almost all blowouts. Thanks for the very informative instructions!
Zac -- Thank you for an information-packed video. I'm glad the process works for you. One of the reasons I prefer epoxy is that it is a gap filling glue. So, if the hole is elongated, the epoxy should fill any gaps. However, where I think many people go wrong is that they put a line or two of glue on the tube and assume that they'll get full coverage by twisting the tube as it is inserted. That doesn't work very well. If you need to pull at tube out after it's been inserted (it happens), you can see dry spots inside the hole where the glue never made contact. To prevent that problem, I use a process similar to yours: I 'paint' the inside of the blank with epoxy using a q-tip. Then, I paint the tube -- covering the whole surface end-to-end -- before inserting it into the blank. It's a little more work, but I've never had a failure with that method. I'm not saying my method is better than yours. It's just another alternative that has its plusses and minuses.
Hey David, I appreciate you sharing your process, and I know lots of people use epoxy and get good results. I tend to agree with the reasoning that it should fill gaps, but I was actually using epoxy when I was getting the failures. Haven't had that problem since I switched back to CA. No clue why really, maybe just the way I was doing it or the brand of epoxy I was using. I'm definitely not saying my method is the best either, I've been around woodworking long enough to know there are always many ways to skin a cat, and the best method is the one that works for you =D
Hi Zack. I'm new to turning about 18 months and have had a few that have blown out on me. So I will look at this again and look at what I am doing a little more than before. Writing and looking at you from Gillingham, Kent, England. Thanks Bob Blood.
Hi Zac, just seeing this video from 2017. I have always used 10 minute epoxy. I coat the tube well, and then rotate it into the hole with the insertion thingy, and even pull it out again to make sure the epoxy is all the way in to the far end. I've never had a blow-out. I like your idea of the thin CA in the hole to seal stone stuff that might still be porous. That's a great idea! Happy turning!
Great info Zac! I use the dental wax too. Instead of the popsicle stick I use a chunk of 2x4 with clear packing tape on top then put blob of Medium CA on it to roll the pen tube in the glue blob for a good coating. After half is coated well I run that half in and out of the blank a couple times which coat the tube up to about the last 1/2 inch then add a little more glue and run the tube from the opposite of the blank.
Great tips as always Zac. I have a find those plugs. I always try to fill those gaps very carefully and if some CA glue drips down the tube, what a pain it is to clean it out. Also, I never thought about adding the thin glue inside the blank. Thanks.
Thanks for the excellent video, and the wax disc trick. I generally use 2-part epoxy, and turned some small HDPE nose cones for the tube end. Spread some epoxy on the tube body, place some inside the blank, and then run the tube into the blank. The HDPE nose cones work great, but I like how much simpler the wax plug seems to work. And I have some 8" x 10" wax sheets on hand to give this a try on my next project. Cheers
I discovered this problem early in my pen turning. My first fix was allowing full cure of the CA (if not 24hrs, then at least overnight. ) This didn't completely solve my problem, so I switched to epoxy, since I was waiting for a full cure anyway. I believe that the slower set time of the epoxy allows for enough "creep" of the epoxy to fill any gaps. After trimming, If I have any gaps, the thin CA trick you demonstrated works wonders, especially with unstabilized wood, because it has the added benefit of stiffening the end grain. I do like the idea of using thick CA on the tube, and thin in the blank. This will ensure the tube is bonding to partially set CA inside the blank, and I can see how that will help to ensure a better bond, and more even distribution of the CA. Both this method, and epoxy are more time consuming than what most people learn, but achieve much better results.
Yeah it often comes down to trying out a few different methods and seeing which works best over time. One thing I want to point out is that I wouldn't really recommend doing thin CA on the inside of wood blanks. Moisture in the wood will make the CA set up instantly, so I usually use the medium or thick CA on wood, but still apply it to both the blank and the tube. I actually tried using epoxy before, but got worse results for some reason. That was what I was using before, and I even applied it to both the inside of the blank and the tube. It makes more sense to use a gap filling glue, but I get better results using this CA glue method
I had two blow outs today and both I believe was the drill process with gaps, thank you for this fix, I have ordered a drill chuck for my lathe. What a frustrating disappointment. Live and learn. Thanks again.
I feel your pain John! I've had my share of blowouts too. Finally got fed up with it and went into investigator mode, glue seemed to be the main culprit every time. Sorry to hear it, but I hope the tips in this video help solve the issues you've had
Zack, I have switched to drilling my blanks on the lathe. I start off with a centering bit then go to a bit that is smaller than the final size, this gives correct sized the bit a pilot hole. Then I finish off the correct sized bit. A couple of reasons the hole gets wallowed is the different densities between heartwood and pith, or between acrylic and anyth other media that is in the blank. As a final note dont use brad point bits on acrylic as these seem so cause blowouts also.
I actually have switched to drilling round blanks on the lathe too because it holds them better than the pen vises do, but I prefer using the drill press for square blanks. I've tried doing multiple passes, but I don't seem to get very good results doing it that way, no clue why. What size bit do you usually use on the first pass? I think the outside edges of brad point bits are too aggressive for most acrylics, and they tend to dig in more. I think it's kind of like using a scraper with a high attack angle vs. a negative rake on the lathe. I still haven't found a good way to drill out hybrids, you're absolutely right about different densities, bit wanders all over the place!! Have you tried using those parabolic bits on different densities?
Hi again Zack, I have a set of chuck pen blank jaws www.pennstateind.com/store/CJAWPENB5.html These work great to hold square blanks in, Just don't push the blank all the way against the chuck. I usually pre drill, after use the centering bit, with a bit about half the size of the finished hole. Some of those pen blank drill can be pretty long also, I have a set of standard length bits also. This way I have very little to no bit wobble. I haven't tried the parabolic bits. I have had great success with drill bits made for plastics. I don't remember where I got the set but you can get them on Amazon www.amazon.com/Drill-Plastic-Acrylics-Plexiglas-Lexan/dp/B0011Z2LDM/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1508094653&sr=8-11&keywords=acrylic+drill+bits
I recall seeing this a while back. Two questions here. First, you leave the tube on the tool for several minutes. I use a fast set CA and only got a tube partway in! Like the difference between set time and cure time. Second, When going back to seal the tube end gaps, one must be very careful not to take off too much as the blank has already been trimmed. Thanks for the video!
Great video. I drill my holes on a lathe but heat from drilling can cause the holes to either distort at the ends or shrink on you with certain acrylics. I have seen that with some of the exotic woods too. I like your solution and need to try it this week when we ramp up for a big home show. We will definitely be using the fill technique you used. That type of thing usually happens to us when we are working with longer blanks. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction :-)
Hey Jim, glad you found a couple ideas to try out in the video. You're absolutely right about those longer blanks, they seem to be the worst when drilling. I'm definitely interested to hear your thoughts after trying out some of the techniques, keep me posted on what you find =D
Will do Zac. My daughter and I watch all your videos. Great advice. You were right on the mark about filling in gaps at the end. If you don't there is an excellent chance that the combination of the lathe spinning the blank and you applying pressing with a gouge will cause the blank to slightly wobble at the end. For us that actually caused our blank to separate from the acrylic. It cracks the bond between the blank and tube. Just figured that the other day when we were trying to replicate those failures. Then your video came out :-) Now we have some fixes. Will let you know what happens this week when we build a lot of pens for the next show we do. Thanks.
Zac, great video, I have started doing this technique but only with medium CA, I have done this with about a dozen pens now and have only had one blowout, I have also recently switched to a fluted drill bit and have all but eliminated oversized holes in my blanks, I highly suggest you try a fluted drill bit, they work awesome Happy turning
That's great to hear! I have had pretty good success since I started applying glue on both surfaces too, and I think it really helps out with the bond throughout the blank. I'll have to try out a fluted bit sometime, thanks for letting me know =D
Great video, fairly new to pen turning and I turn a lot of acrylic and have had some issues in the past. This video was very insightful and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to post this video and help the community! Very nice job on the video, take care and keep turning! 👍
Great ideas. Another thought about the CA glue issue. I also use the "nitrile" gloves for the same reason you do. They actually protect your fingers. Before I found them, I tried a couple different kinds of the blue gloves and actually received a nasty burn because of the interaction of the CA glue and the gloves. Christian Jensen Lubbock Texas
Oh yeah, I never thought about that. I've always used Nitrile because my hands don't sweat as much with them, but I think the latex gloves will melt with certain solvents like acetone
Hi Zac. Very good tip. I shall use this method from now on. While watching you use those silicone plugs I had a thought! (This happens sometimes (:-) ). Many times I come to use an old tube of silicone and find the stuff has set in the nozzle. Usually I remove the nozzle and push the set piece of silicone back out and throw it away, but the end could be used as a plug. In fact the end of the nozzle would make an ideal plug mould.. Another quick tip... If a drill bit isn't sharpened accurately it will drill oval or over size. Simply if one cutting edge is slightly longer or at a very slightly different angle to the other the drill point will not be exactly central, thus the drilled hole size will tend to be the radius from the point to the longest cutting edge tip. Cheaper drills tend to do this. Hope this is useful. Stuart.
As a rather new penturner, and someone who has experienced more than a few blowouts, I really appreciated this video. My question is with coating your tube with slower setting thick CA and then filling your blank with fast setting thin CA have you ever experienced the dreaded "tube stuck but not quite in" disaster?
I'm glad it was helpful Steve! I've never had any issues with the faster setting CA as long as I'm using it on acrylic blanks. If you use the thin fast set on wood blanks, you're almost guaranteed to get tubes stuck half way in. The moisture in wood will make the fast setting thin CA kick right away. For wood blanks, I go with the slower setting CA on both the tube and the blank. It is possible to get tubes stuck halfway in on acrylics too though, it's always best to move swiftly once you've doused the inside of the blank. If that ever happens to you though, just glue in another tube from the other side of the blank and cut off the excess from both sides. May not be pretty, but it should work well enough to get the pen turned up.
Very good video. Where did you find the plugs or stoppers to seal the tube when filling in the gaps with the thin CA after using the barrel trimmer? I'm having the same issues with blowouts. Thanks again for the help.
Hey Steve, I hope it does help out. I'm pretty sure I speak for every pen turner who's gotten a blowout when I say it just plain sucks!! My hope is that sharing my methods and just discussing my theory on glue bonds and blowouts will help reduce them. Let me know if it works for you once you've gotten a few pens made
Could you switch to epoxy resin? It’s much much stronger than ca and is also more impact resistant, temp resistant and also uv resistant. And it can fill gaps.
Awesome info, Zac. I haven't had a blowout in a while, but with acrylics I can sometimes see the voids in glue through the blank. It's been driving me nuts and have been working on getting my tubes glued more evenly.
Zack just something I have when I glue up things doesn't matter if its CA or epoxy I put a silicone cooking sheet down and glue doesn't stick or blanks for that matter while they dry
hey Zac what scale is best for fast measuring of resin? i have one that takes seconds to calculate ..then iv gone over the required amount !!! may be called poll something?
Dang. I wished I had seen this previously. I just turned my first hybrid. I noticed since the acrylic is transparent on this blank that I could see where the glue wasn't getting complete coverage. I didn't have a blow out which I'm thankful for, but this should prevent the issue from happening. Thanks.
Zac Higgins awesome. Just made my first Hybrid Blank gave you a shout out in the video. I screwed up a little on the turning part do to Setting up the mandrel wrong but fortunately it all worked out.
Switched to negative rake carbide tools and haven’t had a problem since. To be clear I’m doing none of this and turning the blanks minutes if not seconds after the glue sets.
Hi Zac. Great video, I never thought much about blow-out until I started castimg my own acrylic blanks & started working with tubes and blanks that use/ require larger drill sizes. I will start using at least a variation of your method from now on. Now, I'm not a scientist, but I know that when ca glue is completely cured, it becomes very hard. It's a possibility that when the blank is turned (with square corners) during the initial roughing process, that the stress on the glue bond might become weaker ? In my work, drilling hardened steel in safes, I've found that a hammer drill works best, causing stress to the steel. Just a thought. Jim
Yeah, I'm definitely no scientist either Jim, only can go on what I've found to work over time and my experiences. My hope is that the discussion will make us all put our brains to work and figure out the solutions =D Personally, I don't think that the initial turning with a square blank puts much more stress on it. I would think if that were the case, the glue bond would would fail right off the bat. Not sure about a hammer drill, I'm not entirely sure how they work. Overall, I've found that keeping the material locked down solidly and keeping the heat down are the two most important factors
Great info. I have just recently had 3 blowouts in a couple days. Thought it might have been a vibration problem with my lathe, but after watching this I know what is happening. I’m going to try this today. One question, have you thought about trying to rough up the inside of the blank also? The thought has crossed my mind before but I haven’t seen anything yet where someone has tried it. I’m thinking a small file or rolling up some 100 grit, and just try to get a few scratches in there for some additional bonding?
Check the end play on the drill press. I have one that I use for anything that doesn't need a precision hole and my shopsmith which has less than. 001" of end play for Precision Drilling. My 1st pen I drilled out was on the drill press and that's when I realized I needed to check the end play! The tube flopped around in the hole!
Definitely could be some play in it, might be the drill bit too. Seems like everything I use the 27/64 bit on comes out wonky. That's pretty sweet that your Shopsmith is dialed in like that!! Those things are pretty handy!
Great info Zac. I noticed I was missing the ends of tubes also when a chunk of wood blew off. I like the silicone stopper idea. I've been cleaning glue out after applying glue to the ends as you do. Are the stoppers from tube in casting molds? Thanks for sharing
Hey Ron, hope that it will help reduce some blowouts! Yeah, those are the stoppers from Fred Wissen's tube-in molds. I just ordered a bunch of extras from him a while ago just in case
Correct Zac, on time 2 to 2.10 when acrylic or any resin get thin you still got a heat friction with the cutting tool and if the blank is not glued on the edge you got blow up
Hey Anthony, I got those wax sheets at Exotic Blanks, but you could just melt down some candle wax into a sheet if you want. I'm not entirely sure where I got the insertion tool off hand, but I think Woodturningz carries them
Thanks Kage! I'm not entirely sure what regular alcohol is, DNA is just what they have at the hardware store. Oh, just thought of rubbing alcohol, if that's what you mean I think it's just weaker than DNA. Not entirely sure though. I'd probably go with DNA or acetone over rubbing alcohol. I suppose moonshine would work too =D
Nice tips thank you. Yesterday (before watching that video), My tube completly unstick after I finished all the blank. Is there a tip to put another tube in a finish blank?
I bought those at Exotic Blanks, but they were pretty expensive for what they are. You can just melt a candle down if you don't mind a little DIY, or I'd recommend searching for them online. Gotta be cheaper somewhere else
Thanks for the heads up Ryan! I tried out Starbond super fast thin since I was having trouble finding EZ bond, it has the same characteristics as the red label EZ bond, works good too
A tip from RJBWoodTurner is to use Gorilla glue. Gorilla glue expands a bit, which helps to fill in the gaps. I've had success with using this glue on acrylic blanks, but it is mandatory to wait overnight before turning the pen using Gorilla glue. I think it is less work than using two different CA glues when inserting a tube into a blank. But, since Gorilla glue expands, it comes out of the ends of the blank, so your idea of using the wax sheet would help to prevent the scraping out of the glue from the inside of the tube.
I gave up on epoxy for the same reason, just didn't bond well for some reason. I got massive areas with no glue with that. The method I use in this video is for acrylic blanks, I wouldn't suggest using a fast setting thin CA with wood because the moisture in the wood will cause the CA glue to set up instantly. I use medium or thick CA on both the blank and tube with wood since it has a longer open time
Hey Kenny, most resins want to be cast at room temperature or warmer. I'd recommend not casting with any resin below 60 degrees if you can avoid it, or you could run into curing issues. Things can start to get difficult when it's above 90 degrees, especially with Alumilite since it sets up so quick, but warmer temps shouldn't cause any issues with curing. Best to store the resin as close to 70 degrees as you can too
Good info. I have almost exclusively switched to 15 minute epoxy. Lots of working time, better gap filling properties, and no sudden setup which happens occasionally with CA. Since you recommend waiting for full cure I see no advantage to using CA.
The advantage for me is it works better than epoxy did. I was using epoxy when I was getting the glue failures. Haven't had problems since I switched back to CA. Not entirely sure why, but it's definitely working best for me. Glad to hear that epoxy is working for you, gotta stick with whatever method works best
I got those at Exotic Blanks, but it was fairly expensive buying it already in sheets like that. For a cheaper DIY method, you could melt down some candles into sheets around 1/8" thick. Should do the trick nicely. I've also seen people use plumber's putty to plug pen blank tubes. Not sure what the cost would be on that, but I believe it's reusable
I got that at Exotic blanks, but you could just melt a candle down and use that if you want to save some money. I didn't have any candles handy, so I just bought those a while ago
I got them on Amazon, I have links to them and lots of other supplies on my "tools I use" page on my website:nvwoodwerks.com/tools/ It's under the heading "Molds"
Hey George, no they are silicone plugs that I got with my tube-in casting molds. I picked up a bunch of extras, you can order them here: ptownsubbie.com/collections/stopper-replacements
Don’t use turning tools on the ends of the blank. Use japanese razor files and then sandpaper with a rigid backer like a popsicle stick. These are much safer to use on the edge of the blank.
I pour my own blanks (because I've worked with resin on other things for a couple of decades) and this is what I learned about drilling and turning.
When drilling (which is where I got a lot of my blow-out), I start with a smaller, brad point bit. I mark the bit where it will bottom out on the blank and when I'm nearing that spot, I go really, really slow. The brad point bits will drill out the center part first. At this point, you have two options. You can turn the blank over and re-center with the point and drill from the opposite direction, or continue very, very slowly so the "wings" of the bit go through very slowly, minimizing blow out. Also, if you cut your blanks a 16th of an inch beyond where you would normally cut to square, any tiny blow out won't matter. After that, it's easy to size up the bit to cut the correct size hole. No wander, but then again, I use a drill press with a centering clamp I made myself. You don't need an expensive one. Just a couple of off-cuts with 2 45 degree cuts and place them in a drill press clamp and you're good.
For turning, carbide tools all day. The round cutter can be used very gently to take the blank to round and then you can use the others as needed. Honestly, if you only bought ONE carbide tool, buy the round one. It can do everything start to finish (unless you're cutting grooves, then you'll need the diamond shaped one). Carbide bits cut acrylic like butter. Just be gentle with acrylic.
Thanks Zac, just ordered my first pen kits. Got a feeling that you just saved me some future aggravation. Remember not to sniff any glue!
Hey Zack, just found this one, perfect instruction as I'm just beginning to turn my first pens. Fun to see the old shop as well.
Thank you for sharing this info, we've all been frustrated with blow out, I've never done a glue up quite like your video, I think I'll try it!!
I have turned many wood pen blanks and have had only a couple of blowouts, however with about every other acrylic blank I have a blowout. This video definitely help eliminate almost all blowouts. Thanks for the very informative instructions!
Zac -- Thank you for an information-packed video. I'm glad the process works for you. One of the reasons I prefer epoxy is that it is a gap filling glue. So, if the hole is elongated, the epoxy should fill any gaps. However, where I think many people go wrong is that they put a line or two of glue on the tube and assume that they'll get full coverage by twisting the tube as it is inserted. That doesn't work very well. If you need to pull at tube out after it's been inserted (it happens), you can see dry spots inside the hole where the glue never made contact. To prevent that problem, I use a process similar to yours: I 'paint' the inside of the blank with epoxy using a q-tip. Then, I paint the tube -- covering the whole surface end-to-end -- before inserting it into the blank. It's a little more work, but I've never had a failure with that method.
I'm not saying my method is better than yours. It's just another alternative that has its plusses and minuses.
Hey David, I appreciate you sharing your process, and I know lots of people use epoxy and get good results. I tend to agree with the reasoning that it should fill gaps, but I was actually using epoxy when I was getting the failures. Haven't had that problem since I switched back to CA. No clue why really, maybe just the way I was doing it or the brand of epoxy I was using. I'm definitely not saying my method is the best either, I've been around woodworking long enough to know there are always many ways to skin a cat, and the best method is the one that works for you =D
Brilliant advice Zac.
I have never thought of using a Silicone plug but will from now on.
Thanks for this Zac and take care.
Cheers, Huw
Hi Zack. I'm new to turning about 18 months and have had a few that have blown out on me. So I will look at this again and look at what I am doing a little more than before. Writing and looking at you from Gillingham, Kent, England. Thanks Bob Blood.
Hey Bob, glad to hear you're just getting started in pen making! Hope these tips will help you out a bit =D
Hi Zac, just seeing this video from 2017. I have always used 10 minute epoxy. I coat the tube well, and then rotate it into the hole with the insertion thingy, and even pull it out again to make sure the epoxy is all the way in to the far end. I've never had a blow-out. I like your idea of the thin CA in the hole to seal stone stuff that might still be porous. That's a great idea! Happy turning!
This is the video I needed! Thanks for the great gluing tips! I have recently added acrylics to my pen turning and sometimes get a struggle bus pass…
Great info Zac! I use the dental wax too. Instead of the popsicle stick I use a chunk of 2x4 with clear packing tape on top then put blob of Medium CA on it to roll the pen tube in the glue blob for a good coating. After half is coated well I run that half in and out of the blank a couple times which coat the tube up to about the last 1/2 inch then add a little more glue and run the tube from the opposite of the blank.
Great tips as always Zac. I have a find those plugs. I always try to fill those gaps very carefully and if some CA glue drips down the tube, what a pain it is to clean it out. Also, I never thought about adding the thin glue inside the blank. Thanks.
Thanks for the excellent video, and the wax disc trick. I generally use 2-part epoxy, and turned some small HDPE nose cones for the tube end. Spread some epoxy on the tube body, place some inside the blank, and then run the tube into the blank. The HDPE nose cones work great, but I like how much simpler the wax plug seems to work. And I have some 8" x 10" wax sheets on hand to give this a try on my next project. Cheers
I discovered this problem early in my pen turning. My first fix was allowing full cure of the CA (if not 24hrs, then at least overnight. ) This didn't completely solve my problem, so I switched to epoxy, since I was waiting for a full cure anyway. I believe that the slower set time of the epoxy allows for enough "creep" of the epoxy to fill any gaps. After trimming, If I have any gaps, the thin CA trick you demonstrated works wonders, especially with unstabilized wood, because it has the added benefit of stiffening the end grain. I do like the idea of using thick CA on the tube, and thin in the blank. This will ensure the tube is bonding to partially set CA inside the blank, and I can see how that will help to ensure a better bond, and more even distribution of the CA. Both this method, and epoxy are more time consuming than what most people learn, but achieve much better results.
Yeah it often comes down to trying out a few different methods and seeing which works best over time. One thing I want to point out is that I wouldn't really recommend doing thin CA on the inside of wood blanks. Moisture in the wood will make the CA set up instantly, so I usually use the medium or thick CA on wood, but still apply it to both the blank and the tube. I actually tried using epoxy before, but got worse results for some reason. That was what I was using before, and I even applied it to both the inside of the blank and the tube. It makes more sense to use a gap filling glue, but I get better results using this CA glue method
If I could figure out why the exact same method works well for one person, but not another, I would be a very wealthy man lol
Thanks for the info on glueing I will try your method in the morning
I had two blow outs today and both I believe was the drill process with gaps, thank you for this fix, I have ordered a drill chuck for my lathe. What a frustrating disappointment. Live and learn. Thanks again.
I feel your pain John! I've had my share of blowouts too. Finally got fed up with it and went into investigator mode, glue seemed to be the main culprit every time. Sorry to hear it, but I hope the tips in this video help solve the issues you've had
Great video. Very informative. Where did you get the silicone plug?
Zack, I have switched to drilling my blanks on the lathe. I start off with a centering bit then go to a bit that is smaller than the
final size, this gives correct sized the bit a pilot hole. Then I finish off the correct sized bit.
A couple of reasons the hole gets wallowed is the different densities between heartwood and pith, or between acrylic
and anyth other media that is in the blank. As a final note dont use brad point bits on acrylic as these seem so cause blowouts also.
I actually have switched to drilling round blanks on the lathe too because it holds them better than the pen vises do, but I prefer using the drill press for square blanks. I've tried doing multiple passes, but I don't seem to get very good results doing it that way, no clue why. What size bit do you usually use on the first pass?
I think the outside edges of brad point bits are too aggressive for most acrylics, and they tend to dig in more. I think it's kind of like using a scraper with a high attack angle vs. a negative rake on the lathe. I still haven't found a good way to drill out hybrids, you're absolutely right about different densities, bit wanders all over the place!! Have you tried using those parabolic bits on different densities?
Hi again Zack, I have a set of chuck pen blank jaws www.pennstateind.com/store/CJAWPENB5.html
These work great to hold square blanks in, Just don't push the blank all the way against the chuck.
I usually pre drill, after use the centering bit, with a bit about half the size of the finished hole. Some of those pen blank drill can be pretty long also, I have a set of standard length bits also. This way I have very
little to no bit wobble.
I haven't tried the parabolic bits. I have had great success with drill bits made for plastics. I don't remember where I got the set but you can get them on Amazon www.amazon.com/Drill-Plastic-Acrylics-Plexiglas-Lexan/dp/B0011Z2LDM/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1508094653&sr=8-11&keywords=acrylic+drill+bits
Great tips! Thanks. With the alcohol, is Denatured Alcohol Fuel what you use???
I recall seeing this a while back. Two questions here. First, you leave the tube on the tool for several minutes. I use a fast set CA and only got a tube partway in! Like the difference between set time and cure time. Second, When going back to seal the tube end gaps, one must be very careful not to take off too much as the blank has already been trimmed. Thanks for the video!
Great information...not a lot of people know or understand about cure time. Thanks, enjoyed watching.
Thanks Russ! Yeah, I know I didn't realize it when I first started pen turning
Great video. I drill my holes on a lathe but heat from drilling can cause the holes to either distort at the ends or shrink on you with certain acrylics. I have seen that with some of the exotic woods too. I like your solution and need to try it this week when we ramp up for a big home show. We will definitely be using the fill technique you used. That type of thing usually happens to us when we are working with longer blanks. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction :-)
Hey Jim, glad you found a couple ideas to try out in the video. You're absolutely right about those longer blanks, they seem to be the worst when drilling. I'm definitely interested to hear your thoughts after trying out some of the techniques, keep me posted on what you find =D
Will do Zac. My daughter and I watch all your videos. Great advice. You were right on the mark about filling in gaps at the end. If you don't there is an excellent chance that the combination of the lathe spinning the blank and you applying pressing with a gouge will cause the blank to slightly wobble at the end. For us that actually caused our blank to separate from the acrylic. It cracks the bond between the blank and tube. Just figured that the other day when we were trying to replicate those failures. Then your video came out :-) Now we have some fixes. Will let you know what happens this week when we build a lot of pens for the next show we do. Thanks.
Zac, great video, I have started doing this technique but only with medium CA, I have done this with about a dozen pens now and have only had one blowout, I have also recently switched to a fluted drill bit and have all but eliminated oversized holes in my blanks, I highly suggest you try a fluted drill bit, they work awesome
Happy turning
That's great to hear! I have had pretty good success since I started applying glue on both surfaces too, and I think it really helps out with the bond throughout the blank. I'll have to try out a fluted bit sometime, thanks for letting me know =D
Let me know how the fluted bit works out for you, I have never had a blowout when drilling when I was using one
I have not seen a drill bit that did not have flutes!?
Great video, fairly new to pen turning and I turn a lot of acrylic and have had some issues in the past. This video was very insightful and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to post this video and help the community! Very nice job on the video, take care and keep turning! 👍
Great ideas. Another thought about the CA glue issue. I also use the "nitrile" gloves for the same reason you do. They actually protect your fingers.
Before I found them, I tried a couple different kinds of the blue gloves and actually received a nasty burn because of the interaction of the CA glue and the gloves.
Christian Jensen Lubbock Texas
Oh yeah, I never thought about that. I've always used Nitrile because my hands don't sweat as much with them, but I think the latex gloves will melt with certain solvents like acetone
Thanks Zac. Doing research. Just blew up a $19.00 hybrid blank. Can't afford that very often.
Are the acrylic blanks the same thing as the two part Epoxy resin that we use
Hi Zac. Very good tip. I shall use this method from now on. While watching you use those silicone plugs I had a thought! (This happens sometimes (:-) ). Many times I come to use an old tube of silicone and find the stuff has set in the nozzle. Usually I remove the nozzle and push the set piece of silicone back out and throw it away, but the end could be used as a plug. In fact the end of the nozzle would make an ideal plug mould.. Another quick tip... If a drill bit isn't sharpened accurately it will drill oval or over size. Simply if one cutting edge is slightly longer or at a very slightly different angle to the other the drill point will not be exactly central, thus the drilled hole size will tend to be the radius from the point to the longest cutting edge tip. Cheaper drills tend to do this.
Hope this is useful.
Stuart.
Great tips Stuart! Thanks for sharing them =D Let me know how the glue methods work for you after you've tried it a few times
Great tips, Zac! Thanks for sharing them.
Thanks Dwight! My pleasure, hope it helps out =D
Dwight Rahl +4
As a rather new penturner, and someone who has experienced more than a few blowouts, I really appreciated this video. My question is with coating your tube with slower setting thick CA and then filling your blank with fast setting thin CA have you ever experienced the dreaded "tube stuck but not quite in" disaster?
I'm glad it was helpful Steve! I've never had any issues with the faster setting CA as long as I'm using it on acrylic blanks. If you use the thin fast set on wood blanks, you're almost guaranteed to get tubes stuck half way in. The moisture in wood will make the fast setting thin CA kick right away. For wood blanks, I go with the slower setting CA on both the tube and the blank. It is possible to get tubes stuck halfway in on acrylics too though, it's always best to move swiftly once you've doused the inside of the blank.
If that ever happens to you though, just glue in another tube from the other side of the blank and cut off the excess from both sides. May not be pretty, but it should work well enough to get the pen turned up.
Zac, do you ever smash up acrylic bits, put them in other blanks -- the "cracked ice" look?
Very good video. Where did you find the plugs or stoppers to seal the tube when filling in the gaps with the thin CA after using the barrel trimmer? I'm having the same issues with blowouts. Thanks again for the help.
Thanks Zac! I think that this will solve some of my problems. Thanks for what you do and for sharing it with us!
Hey Steve, I hope it does help out. I'm pretty sure I speak for every pen turner who's gotten a blowout when I say it just plain sucks!! My hope is that sharing my methods and just discussing my theory on glue bonds and blowouts will help reduce them. Let me know if it works for you once you've gotten a few pens made
Could you switch to epoxy resin? It’s much much stronger than ca and is also more impact resistant, temp resistant and also uv resistant. And it can fill gaps.
Excellent information.
Good tips Zac, that’s why I use a mold with tube in it already, that way I don’t have to worry about glue
Yeah, that is a great way to do it too. Make sure you hit the tube with alcohol first, give you a better bond with the resin.
Great tips Zac
Watched your pressure pot tonight too. Can the pressure pot be used to stabilize also?
Zac, thank you for the suggestions I will give them a try.
Hey Eddie, glad to share! Let me know how it works for you
Hey Zac....what is the wax you're using?
Where do you get your silicone plugs at?
Where can I get the silicone plugs that you use?
Awesome info, Zac. I haven't had a blowout in a while, but with acrylics I can sometimes see the voids in glue through the blank. It's been driving me nuts and have been working on getting my tubes glued more evenly.
Where did you find the insertion tube?
Another great video!
Sorry. Where did you get the insertion tool?
Zack just something I have when I glue up things doesn't matter if its CA or epoxy I put a silicone cooking sheet down and glue doesn't stick or blanks for that matter while they dry
That's a great tip! I use those where I do resin casting too, they are awesome!!
You’re the best. Great tips.
Thanks Steven =D Hope they help out
hey Zac
what scale is best for fast measuring of resin? i have one that takes seconds to calculate ..then iv gone over the required amount !!! may be called poll something?
Hey zac I’m not having blowouts but I’m having trouble getting the tube to stick i bought some ca glue and it doesnt seem to work
New at turning and casting, great info on your site. Would love to win these molds.
Dang. I wished I had seen this previously. I just turned my first hybrid. I noticed since the acrylic is transparent on this blank that I could see where the glue wasn't getting complete coverage. I didn't have a blow out which I'm thankful for, but this should prevent the issue from happening. Thanks.
Glad you found it Chad!! It's been working well for me for years now, let me know how it goes for you
Zac Higgins awesome. Just made my first Hybrid Blank gave you a shout out in the video. I screwed up a little on the turning part do to Setting up the mandrel wrong but fortunately it all worked out.
Thanks! Learned some things in this one.
Could you tell me where you got the wax sheet you used to plug the end of the brass tubes?
You bet! I've got a link to it in the Tools I Use section on my website under pen turning: resinwerksstudio.com/pages/pen-turning
Nice one Zac, thank you for that.
Hope it will help out a bit Eric, thanks for checking it out =D
Great video and tips 👍
Switched to negative rake carbide tools and haven’t had a problem since. To be clear I’m doing none of this and turning the blanks minutes if not seconds after the glue sets.
Hi Zac. Great video, I never thought much about blow-out until I started castimg my own acrylic blanks & started working with tubes and blanks that use/ require larger drill sizes. I will start using at least a variation of your method from now on. Now, I'm not a scientist, but I know that when ca glue is completely cured, it becomes very hard. It's a possibility that when the blank is turned (with square corners) during the initial roughing process, that the stress on the glue bond might become weaker ?
In my work, drilling hardened steel in safes, I've found that a hammer drill works best, causing stress to the steel. Just a thought.
Jim
Yeah, I'm definitely no scientist either Jim, only can go on what I've found to work over time and my experiences. My hope is that the discussion will make us all put our brains to work and figure out the solutions =D Personally, I don't think that the initial turning with a square blank puts much more stress on it. I would think if that were the case, the glue bond would would fail right off the bat. Not sure about a hammer drill, I'm not entirely sure how they work. Overall, I've found that keeping the material locked down solidly and keeping the heat down are the two most important factors
Great tips thanks Zack
I'm with Kittenware. I use Gorilla glue - it expands & fills the gaps.
Great info. I have just recently had 3 blowouts in a couple days. Thought it might have been a vibration problem with my lathe, but after watching this I know what is happening. I’m going to try this today. One question, have you thought about trying to rough up the inside of the blank also? The thought has crossed my mind before but I haven’t seen anything yet where someone has tried it. I’m thinking a small file or rolling up some 100 grit, and just try to get a few scratches in there for some additional bonding?
I'm not totally sure about it since I haven't tested it out, but theoretically it should improve the bond
Check the end play on the drill press. I have one that I use for anything that doesn't need a precision hole and my shopsmith which has less than. 001" of end play for Precision Drilling. My 1st pen I drilled out was on the drill press and that's when I realized I needed to check the end play! The tube flopped around in the hole!
Definitely could be some play in it, might be the drill bit too. Seems like everything I use the 27/64 bit on comes out wonky. That's pretty sweet that your Shopsmith is dialed in like that!! Those things are pretty handy!
Great info Zac. I noticed I was missing the ends of tubes also when a chunk of wood blew off. I like the silicone stopper idea. I've been cleaning glue out after applying glue to the ends as you do. Are the stoppers from tube in casting molds? Thanks for sharing
Hey Ron, hope that it will help reduce some blowouts! Yeah, those are the stoppers from Fred Wissen's tube-in molds. I just ordered a bunch of extras from him a while ago just in case
Zac Higgins I rarely use my tube in mold, so I'll use them from now on till I order more. Thanks man😀
Correct Zac, on time 2 to 2.10 when acrylic or any resin get thin you still got a heat friction with the cutting tool and if the blank is not glued on the edge you got blow up
Thanks Zac Great Video Question Where do you get the wax sheet and your incertion tool is a lot bigger? Thanks Anthony
Hey Anthony, I got those wax sheets at Exotic Blanks, but you could just melt down some candle wax into a sheet if you want. I'm not entirely sure where I got the insertion tool off hand, but I think Woodturningz carries them
Thanks Zac for the info I will check it out.Happy Turning Anthony
Great overview Zac, I really like the wax idea! What's the difference with denatured vs. regular alcohol ?
Thanks Kage! I'm not entirely sure what regular alcohol is, DNA is just what they have at the hardware store. Oh, just thought of rubbing alcohol, if that's what you mean I think it's just weaker than DNA. Not entirely sure though. I'd probably go with DNA or acetone over rubbing alcohol. I suppose moonshine would work too =D
Nice tips thank you.
Yesterday (before watching that video), My tube completly unstick after I finished all the blank. Is there a tip to put another tube in a finish blank?
Hmm, I'm not sure what the best way to do it would be, I guess I'd probably just apply glue to the tube only and insert it again in that case
One thing I don't see listed is the "wax paper". I can't seem to find what you are using in this video. Gotta link?
I bought those at Exotic Blanks, but they were pretty expensive for what they are. You can just melt a candle down if you don't mind a little DIY, or I'd recommend searching for them online. Gotta be cheaper somewhere else
Thanks Zac. Great Video! I did a little searching and exoticblanks.com has the thin red label E-Z Bond glue.
Thanks for the heads up Ryan! I tried out Starbond super fast thin since I was having trouble finding EZ bond, it has the same characteristics as the red label EZ bond, works good too
Thanks for the tips. Great
Great information thanks
Thanks Joan! Hope it is helpful =D
Thank you Zac!
You're very welcome Stephen, hope some of the things I do will help out =D
A tip from RJBWoodTurner is to use Gorilla glue. Gorilla glue expands a bit, which helps to fill in the gaps. I've had success with using this glue on acrylic blanks, but it is mandatory to wait overnight before turning the pen using Gorilla glue. I think it is less work than using two different CA glues when inserting a tube into a blank. But, since Gorilla glue expands, it comes out of the ends of the blank, so your idea of using the wax sheet would help to prevent the scraping out of the glue from the inside of the tube.
Thanks! Good tips!
Is there a reason why you don't use 5 min epoxy? I gave up on CA because of the bonding issues and getting a tube partly in then setting up.
I gave up on epoxy for the same reason, just didn't bond well for some reason. I got massive areas with no glue with that. The method I use in this video is for acrylic blanks, I wouldn't suggest using a fast setting thin CA with wood because the moisture in the wood will cause the CA glue to set up instantly. I use medium or thick CA on both the blank and tube with wood since it has a longer open time
Glen Granger with you on that. CA didn't want to wait for me. Never had a blowout with epoxy
Hey Zack what temperature should it be when casting
Hey Kenny, most resins want to be cast at room temperature or warmer. I'd recommend not casting with any resin below 60 degrees if you can avoid it, or you could run into curing issues. Things can start to get difficult when it's above 90 degrees, especially with Alumilite since it sets up so quick, but warmer temps shouldn't cause any issues with curing. Best to store the resin as close to 70 degrees as you can too
Good info. I have almost exclusively switched to 15 minute epoxy. Lots of working time, better gap filling properties, and no sudden setup which happens occasionally with CA. Since you recommend waiting for full cure I see no advantage to using CA.
The advantage for me is it works better than epoxy did. I was using epoxy when I was getting the glue failures. Haven't had problems since I switched back to CA. Not entirely sure why, but it's definitely working best for me. Glad to hear that epoxy is working for you, gotta stick with whatever method works best
Thank you Zack
Your welcome, hope it helps out =D
Zac, where did you located the wax? I checked all the hobby shops around town and wasn't able to locate any.
I got those at Exotic Blanks, but it was fairly expensive buying it already in sheets like that. For a cheaper DIY method, you could melt down some candles into sheets around 1/8" thick. Should do the trick nicely. I've also seen people use plumber's putty to plug pen blank tubes. Not sure what the cost would be on that, but I believe it's reusable
Zac Higgins ill try the putty since I have some from when I recently replaced a sink. Thanks for the reply.
I use the wax also and I buy it in sheets called dental wax from amazon. Very reasonable in price and lasts a long time
Awesome! Thanks for letting me know, I'll check that out next time
Hey Zac, where do you get wax sheets? I like that idea!
I got those at exotic blanks, but you could just melt a candle to save the cost of them
I use an apple, pear, or potato instead of wax. Just push the tube in and it seals the end.
I drill my blanks on the lathe and noticed when I go to my slowest rpm I get no gap on wood blanks and infrequent gap with acrylic.
great hint!
Thanks Ron! Hope it helps out and reduces blowouts for you =D
Zac where did you get the wax at
I got that at Exotic blanks, but you could just melt a candle down and use that if you want to save some money. I didn't have any candles handy, so I just bought those a while ago
thank you
Where's ya get the plugs?
I got them on Amazon, I have links to them and lots of other supplies on my "tools I use" page on my website:nvwoodwerks.com/tools/ It's under the heading "Molds"
Is the plugs ear plugs
Hey George, no they are silicone plugs that I got with my tube-in casting molds. I picked up a bunch of extras, you can order them here: ptownsubbie.com/collections/stopper-replacements
Don’t use turning tools on the ends of the blank. Use japanese razor files and then sandpaper with a rigid backer like a popsicle stick. These are much safer to use on the edge of the blank.
Boy do you ramble on and on....