Good Mourning Lyle, I remember well using a couple of "Gorton" milling machines back in the sixties that used "End Measuring Rods" and Indicators. One micrometer head had a Red color band and the other had a Green color band to help keep things straight. A pad of paper on the table with 2 columns of figures to add and subtract your movements, with a heading above each column of either Red or Green. This was before we really thought of able movements as the "X" or "Y" axes. In the late Sixties, Bridgeport came out with what they called "Optics". It was a micro-etched mirror glass scale attached to the table which was read through a little lighted box with a magnification lens inside. Again, with the pad of paper on the table to keep track of your moves. Thank goodness for D.R.O.'s!
Finally, a whole machine designed by Bubba. I can hear it in by head; “Hey Bubba, we’ve got this huge backlog for our lathes and can’t build them fast enough. How about designing us a new milling machine for our customers who can’t get Bridgeport’s.” Old Bubba got busy and here it is in all its glory in Mr. Pete’s cold garage. Can’t wait for Spring to see this beauty running again. Thanks Mr. Pete.
Absolutely fascinating Mr. Pete! That machine is a genuine piece of history. It looks like it was a pretty swish version as well with most of the deluxe options. To some extent a shame it didn't have the full-house with the coolant pump but I dare say it was rarely used and could easily lead to a very messy workshop! One thing that strikes me is the total lack of modularity. The designers did not begin with a 'master' version and then remove parts to offer simpler/cheaper machines. They went in the other direction and that is why it has such a bolted-on nature. Nonetheless I am sure it all worked! The catalogue picture is especially evocative--'The Greatest'! 1956... Happier times as they say!
An awesome example of a time period in which I wished we still lived in today. I think you are the most qualified person here to take care of and explain the history of this wonderful old mill.
"...a time period in which I wished we still lived in today...". I was sweating out the draft back then, and there was a hot war ramping up n Southeast Asia. I don't want to go with you.
@@MrShobar LOL yes, but aside from that we had much more freedom, and in general people still had some sense. Not like all the BS we live with today. And things were built to last, still made in America.
@@tmurray1972 No one told me I had the freedom to refuse military induction. I tried to tell them that I thought military service under the force of criminal penalty was unconstitutional during my induction exam. They didn't listen. Those people had no sense then. The BS I had to live with then is that I had to take an oath to kill other human beings, or go to jail.
Thanks for sharing your new item. Lost Creek is a great place, and recommend to anyone a visit if your looking for that rare find. Also, go when the weather is good, and your their Old Town. A step back in time. Great guys out there. Stay warm for now Mr. Pete.
32:48 Note the vernier scales' mounting holes are slotted - so once you have 0 trammed in, you can loosen the vernier scales and adjust them for exact zero - more or less eliminating the need for tramming.
South Bend hydrolic pump cabinet...Move the pump assembly too the lower section, so that the storage portion will be up higher, and a little more convenient
I also have a South Bend mill with all of the same extras plus a horizontal head [almost new] and a big box of tooling and gizmos. Mine is 120 VAC and runs like a top. I also will be working on it this winter, as the snow falls here in Bloomington. A learn as I go adventure in my golden years.
It warms my heart to hear that, that age old, & now ghostly tradition, of Spite-Mowing , has been passed down, & is dutifully carried on as a mark of respect for those who carried out their neighbourly duties for so long. 👻
To have had you as a teacher would have been a privilege. I have watched almost all your videos more than once and continue to do so for three reasons; they are educational, interesting and entertaining. All the best from the UK.
Awesome walkaround! RE: The Powerfeed motor and gearbox; The reason the beltguard isn't mounted, is the mount for the beltguard on the pedestal is broken. The Table Overtravel apparatus mounted in the middle of the saddle of the mill; This stop needs to be "armed" or set before the X-Axis powerfeed will actually engage. Moving the stubby vertical lever fully to the right, "arms" the stop, engaging the powerfeed input clutch (when the stop is disarmed or tripped, the clutch is disengaged - failsafe). The travel limit switch is actuated from either side of the Stop unit (when the Overtravel brackets and limits screws are used in the tooling Slot along the front of the table), or the lever (with the missing ball handle) is moved left or right, tripping the clutch cutoff. One of the connecting rods for the overtravel stop is bent: I recommend making a new (straight) one so that can sets and trip the clutch correctly.
I'd move the hydraulic pump to the bottom shelf and make the top shelf the storage cabinet. Don't know about you Lyle, but I find that the older I get the further it is to floor level, and more difficult to get there short of falling over..
Love the Art Fern pointer, it makes it easy to understand what you are talking about. That South Bend is like a Frankenstein with the huge hydraulic cabinet stuck on the side, the power feed wiring and disconnect strangling the column, and the double tumbler gear box on top of the "peg leg". Hopefully you can resolve the issues and get it making chips.
Extremely interesting to see this early and rare milling machine, One of the J&S surface grinding machines I used to build in the 60s and 70s, had a hydraulic motor too, and it powered the crossfeed, called a 'vane' motor, when it worked, was the smoothest quietest feed ever, speed variable by a knob, you just made me remember this boring fact lol, looking forward to seeing some restoration on this interesting piece of history thanks, Dave
My dad bought that same machine. I loved using the table feed. That spindle taper is more stout than the R8 and the ability to change tools working at chest height rather than having to reach the top of mill head was a huge benefit to my WWII DAV dad. My brother has it now. A SWEET machine. Thanks John
That is a cool mill. The Z and ZZ collets were used in a number of applications. My Oliver 287 wood shaper used them for router bus. Also used on my rotary mill attachment for the Bridgeport. My Bridgeport is a round ram and it’s rigid. I don’t like tramming so I am fine with it. Looking forward to seeing you seeing it run.
Hi Lyle, I believe 150 of these machines were all together built. I was lucky to purchase a South Bend Mill recently that came from a school in Oregon and is in a pretty good condition. I added a VFD to run it at 220v. I have so far also added a DRO on X & Y. The best thing I added was an ER40 chuck and collet set. I had to take the spindle off to oil it etc. These changes made the mill a very versatile mill. I am very happy with it. I am sure you are an expert but any information you might need I will be happy to provide. all the best. Hossein
Guessing the reason for hydraulics was to get infinitely variable force for drilling (The BP idea is fine for boring but for drilling can be a PITA if the feed rate is too high) Does that table feed slide over the other gear box when the table is moved fully to the left? I can see no other reason it is so long.
I had a 32" table version SBM, with manual movements only. Was not fond of the 30taper tool holders, but did have all of the double angle collets from 1/4 up to 3/4" . I found it fairly easy to cut the pockets to modify other 30 taper holders, using a carbide endmill. Mine was single phase, but would have rather had 3 phase to get variable speed with a VFD, but no way to power with a conventional 3 ph motor. AFAIK ....it still lives a couple blocks away with the new owner.
Thank's Mr. Pete for the walk us around your new treasure, I'm looking forward to future video's of you getting this old girl making chips again. I really liked the goodie box portion, not sure why but I was mesmerized checking out the contents, it was almost as if that was my box of goodies I was pawing through looking for a valuable tool, I'm pretty sure I have a I have THD, tool hoarder disorder! I own a 1956 Cincinatti Toolmaster that has the same issue as the South Bend, Motor directly over the spindle, perhaps they thought Cincinatti had a good idea and copied it but it isn't a great plan in reality. I am intrigued by the power feed setup on your South Bend, really complex but having survived for 50 plus years must be well made. My Toolmaster had a power feed that was located on the left side of the table, had the gearing and motor hanging off the back side with the speed selector handles on the front, notoriously weak and it is not often you see one that is in working order as I bought mine with the gearbox and motor missing and have been told they are as rare as hens teeth. Thanks again!
I think the engineers ran amuck on this mill. High quality, probably so. The complexity of the table feed and the quill feed probably made the bridgeport even more attractive. You could put a bridgeport of the same age in a modern toolroom , This mill not so much. great walk through. I would have snapped that mill up in a second in years past when I had more space than money.
Got around to watching your video. You need an ar collet setup. Let me dig through my archives, I rescued a #30 ar body one time, but where did I stash it. No collets. The trays were probably sized to hold Pratt an Whitney square guage blocks. Old method but very accurate.
Great video Very fascinating on how in that Era they solved problems and the problems that were caused by the solution. Please Please put the extra effort to bring her back to her former glory. She would probably be the only one in the world as southbend sold them. I know there are parts and pieces out there for her. I would gladly donate anything I can for her.
I have seen one, It was so many years ago I cannot remember much about it other than I do remember seeing it in a cluttered shop someplace in my travels.
Verniers. They worked in the old days. I don't know what's changed. I still have a set of Lufkin rods (and micrometers) for a jig boring machine around here somewhere. The micrometers were color-coded for x and y movements. Thanks for the memories.
super interesting , i just got one that looks the same except for a few details , i am looking forward to discover what you will be doing with it , thank you -great video for me !
My Wells Index model 40 uses a Brown and sharpe #9 taper in the spindle. I would rather it be a Morse. I also have the x feed, with the shaft drive, the little motor uses step pullys. Good video.
I have a wells index vertical mill that's uses number 9 brown and sharps collete and a Cincinnati vertical Mill l like both those mills I use a bridge port vertical mill at work
Nice machine Mr. Pete. Sometimes it's ok for a few things to need fixing on a new used machine. We get to better understand how they are designed along with attributes and shortcomings.
Hi again Mr Pete good luck with your project boy I am so glad that I have a Bridgeport clone as a beginner the South bend seems to be pretty involved .Maybe wi'll see a clip of you firing it up and oiling it thanks again love your videos junk man
You were talking about Index mills, I have a number 40 ( with B&S #9 taper) , I could not stand the Index head so I put a Bridgeport J head on it. The Index base only weights 435 pounds so I was able to get that easily into my basement
I have a predecessor machine that looks identical to the single piece base South Bend machine except that the head says VAN and the knee screw is on the right not the left. I believe my mill was made in the early 50's in San Francisco. Given the massive similarities, I suspect that South Bend bought the design and molds to make their model. I found a South Bend right angle attachment about 10 years ago that fits perfectly.
I may have made this comment before but I have only seen one of these machines in my lifetime. The guy who had it wanted me to modify the spindle to operate like a Bridgeport milling machine. I suggested he swap out the head with a Bridgeport head.
Great walk around and description. If the hydraulic or "monstrosity" doesn't work and takes to much to fix maybe you could remove it to conserve a bit of space. Maybe making a half door for the hydraulic box would enable you to keep original one whole. If it matters.
Excellent review there were some real design issues you highlighted. Made me laugh. A tag line I am using on my channel is “It’s too cold and I am too old” some things will have to wait for better weather. LOL.
Mr. Pete - Thank you for the tour - I really enjoy seeing old machines (Old ARN!) and a glimpse into the thought process of the design and manufacture of them. As for the hydraulic cabinet, couldn't you simply hinge the current cover and install a latch or thumbscrew. It seems like splitting the cover would be an excessive amount of work... additionally, if the bump and hydraulics don't work on the machine... will you pull them off or just leave them?
I had seen one of these for sale in the flea market at a local steam show a few years ago it had the power feed and a set of ZZ collets .The machine was in good condition and it sold in about one hour for $1400.00
"...I will not be putting this (South Bend) mill in the basement beside my Bridgeport..." I have the same problem with two of my dogs. They are jealous too and fight when I am not around... :) Ha ha!
I remember one of the milling machines in high school back in 1970, having a small rudimentary type of readout, with a small green screen on it. I can't remember what make of machine it was though, but it wasn't a Bridgeport.
Looks like an easy conversion to ER 40 collects.We did it on our Cinci Toolmaster. I would take them over R-8 anytime. Grab a set of ChiCom ER collects that cost just over a C note. They not only hold any size mill, including ones that R-8 wont, but you can use them for any size drill from 1/8 to 1" ,,,,, We can hold a couple thousandths TIR all day long too! - Not mad for a 4o year old machine, huh? We got the chinisum collects to see how they work with the intent of getting better ones later as needed but they work so well we are still using them after 2 years and haven't replaces a single one. With a couple of tweeks like a couple of cheap VFDs (One for the spindle and one for the feed (Which will give you rapid) and you will be in far=t city with this mill. (The chi-com LCD readouts and kind of neat too,,,,and really cheep to boot,),,,,OH we programmed the VFD and it stops or even reverse in 1/2 second. Who needs the brake. After a little work and a few bucks I think you got a class A winner there Mr Pete. ou will soon forget the BP.
Hi Lyle, I can't decide if that collet would be easier on my Lagun mill with an R8 spindle. Right now I have to step on a stool to loosen the draw bar and I'm 5' 8". It's tall. I have to twist the head if I need to remove the draw bar.
With that huge fly-cutter tool I don't see how you could ever tighten the setscrews that hold the tool in the spindle taper. There also seems to be no reason for that long housing on the longitudinal feed. Maybe it is making room for some other accessory.
Interesting milling machine. It looks to be a great unit for the home shop. Question I have is can you not use a modern milling 30 taper modified with the notch, with an ER 30 or 40 collet system? If so that would open up a larger array of collets and erase that disadvantage of no R8 collet system. Out side of that that’s the only drawback I see on the mill. The other question is are you doing static or rotary phase converter on this mill? From what I see on your Bridgeport it appears your using a static converter. That’s what’s on my mill and I never had an issue
In regards to your side cover on the hydraulics: as to not terribly mangle the beautiful original cover, perhaps a piano style hinge on the back and two tool box style latches on the front? you could keep all sorts of angle plates or rotary tables/dividing heads in that bottom shelf? I would love to see a full restore on this machine, myself........ hint hint - ALSO: could you do a quick video of taking measurements of the collets you need? Length, size at each end and in the fat part in the center, etc - I have BOXES of old. odd looking collets from buying out various machinery liquidators and would certainly donate them to you if I knew they were for your machine
If I had that machine, I would probably see if the hydrolic down feed worked, do a video on it, and then streamline the machine by removing it (put it in storage). Hope you don't mind my 2 cents.
How do you engage the fine feed for the quill? On the handle quick downfeed does it have a spring for return like on a drillpress or is it just a manual return?
Another great video, thanks for all of these over the years! I have the same machine sans the larger table, hydraulic feed and power gearbox. Galaxy Products in Sylvania Ohio makes collets for that universal holder, I suspect these might be a bit pricy, though. I have not been able to find the zz collets used. Do you need a sketch of the missing quill drive pin?
Hi again Mr Pete after viewing the last couple minutes of the video with the brochure sure looks a lot nicer all stripped down maybe yours needs to go on a diet that's truly up to you though good luck and have fun JM
Mr Pete I just got my first mill it's a south bend like yours but later model With the box table feed where can I get a wrench for the weird number Collett nut mine came with a bunch of Collett but no wrench also having trouble getting wired up to the drum switch mine has a clark with 8 positions and a start pole the paper under the cover is burnt can only read
Two things. First of all mine is missing the wrench also. I am using a spanner wrench, that does not fit all that well, but works fine. I am looking for the correct wrench also. I do have that wrench in the larger size, but it is meant for my other machines. Secondly, I cannot help you with your electrical problem. My machine has an Allen Bradley control.
To your point on chinese mills not being available in 1969. I wished they weren’t available now. I have went to extreme measures only to have USA made mills, lathes, saws, shaper. These vintage American machines, in my opinion will always take me back to a time when this country created the best.
But, look at the free advertising they got by donating to Mr. Pete. I’d never heard of Lost Creek Machine until I saw this video. Besides, how many people who “needed it” would have the skills to restore it?
Hey Mr.Pete. I bought one of these mills a few months ago and intend to restore it this spring. I am greatly looking forward to this video series. My mill is missing the handle used to raise/lower the knee. Any chance you could cast me a replacement? Thanks!
Glad you can use the indicator. Good to see it put to proper use on a machine it was made for.
Thanks again
Good Mourning Lyle, I remember well using a couple of "Gorton" milling machines back in the sixties that used "End Measuring Rods" and Indicators. One micrometer head had a Red color band and the other had a Green color band to help keep things straight. A pad of paper on the table with 2 columns of figures to add and subtract your movements, with a heading above each column of either Red or Green. This was before we really thought of able movements as the "X" or "Y" axes. In the late Sixties, Bridgeport came out with what they called "Optics". It was a micro-etched mirror glass scale attached to the table which was read through a little lighted box with a magnification lens inside. Again, with the pad of paper on the table to keep track of your moves. Thank goodness for D.R.O.'s!
We sure have come a long ways
Finally, a whole machine designed by Bubba. I can hear it in by head; “Hey Bubba, we’ve got this huge backlog for our lathes and can’t build them fast enough. How about
designing us a new milling machine for our customers who can’t get Bridgeport’s.” Old Bubba got busy and here it is in all its glory in Mr. Pete’s cold garage. Can’t wait for Spring to see this beauty running again. Thanks Mr. Pete.
Absolutely fascinating Mr. Pete! That machine is a genuine piece of history. It looks like it was a pretty swish version as well with most of the deluxe options. To some extent a shame it didn't have the full-house with the coolant pump but I dare say it was rarely used and could easily lead to a very messy workshop!
One thing that strikes me is the total lack of modularity. The designers did not begin with a 'master' version and then remove parts to offer simpler/cheaper machines. They went in the other direction and that is why it has such a bolted-on nature. Nonetheless I am sure it all worked!
The catalogue picture is especially evocative--'The Greatest'! 1956... Happier times as they say!
An awesome example of a time period in which I wished we still lived in today. I think
you are the most qualified person here to take care of and explain the history of this
wonderful old mill.
Thank
"...a time period in which I wished we still lived in today...". I was sweating out the draft back then, and there was a hot war ramping up n Southeast Asia. I don't want to go with you.
@@MrShobar LOL yes, but aside from that we had much more freedom, and in general
people still had some sense. Not like all the BS we live with today. And things were built to last, still made in America.
@@tmurray1972 No one told me I had the freedom to refuse military induction. I tried to tell them that I thought military service under the force of criminal penalty was unconstitutional during my induction exam. They didn't listen. Those people had no sense then. The BS I had to live with then is that I had to take an oath to kill other human beings, or go to jail.
Thanks for sharing your new item. Lost Creek is a great place, and recommend to anyone a visit if your looking for that rare find. Also, go when the weather is good, and your their Old Town. A step back in time. Great guys out there. Stay warm for now Mr. Pete.
Sorry about the goofy grammar, fingers to big for this tiny keyboard 😁
Be sure to keep your garage door closed over the winter so those model girls don't all flock to that machine and fill your space up! :-)
One look at me and they would run the other way
Thank you Mr Pete, hope you’ll walk us through the repairs.
32:48 Note the vernier scales' mounting holes are slotted - so once you have 0 trammed in, you can loosen the vernier scales and adjust them for exact zero - more or less eliminating the need for tramming.
South Bend hydrolic pump cabinet...Move the pump assembly too the lower section, so that the storage portion will be up higher, and a little more convenient
Good idea
I also have a South Bend mill with all of the same extras plus a horizontal head [almost new] and a big box of tooling and gizmos. Mine is 120 VAC and runs like a top. I also will be working on it this winter, as the snow falls here in Bloomington. A learn as I go adventure in my golden years.
👍👍
It warms my heart to hear that, that age old, & now ghostly tradition, of Spite-Mowing , has been passed down, & is dutifully carried on as a mark of respect for those who carried out their neighbourly duties for so long. 👻
To have had you as a teacher would have been a privilege. I have watched almost all your videos more than once and continue to do so for three reasons; they are educational, interesting and entertaining. All the best from the UK.
Thank you very very much for your support
Awesome walkaround! RE: The Powerfeed motor and gearbox; The reason the beltguard isn't mounted, is the mount for the beltguard on the pedestal is broken. The Table Overtravel apparatus mounted in the middle of the saddle of the mill; This stop needs to be "armed" or set before the X-Axis powerfeed will actually engage. Moving the stubby vertical lever fully to the right, "arms" the stop, engaging the powerfeed input clutch (when the stop is disarmed or tripped, the clutch is disengaged - failsafe). The travel limit switch is actuated from either side of the Stop unit (when the Overtravel brackets and limits screws are used in the tooling Slot along the front of the table), or the lever (with the missing ball handle) is moved left or right, tripping the clutch cutoff. One of the connecting rods for the overtravel stop is bent: I recommend making a new (straight) one so that can sets and trip the clutch correctly.
Thanks
I'd move the hydraulic pump to the bottom shelf and make the top shelf the storage cabinet. Don't know about you Lyle, but I find that the older I get the further it is to floor level, and more difficult to get there short of falling over..
Yes
Or getting up from said place!
Love the Art Fern pointer, it makes it easy to understand what you are talking about. That South Bend is like a Frankenstein with the huge hydraulic cabinet stuck on the side, the power feed wiring and disconnect strangling the column, and the double tumbler gear box on top of the "peg leg". Hopefully you can resolve the issues and get it making chips.
I love your outrageous, but truthful description of this machine. The Frankenmill. I now have a new name for it. Thanks to you.
Lol ! The Frakenmill it is ! Glad I could be of some small assistance besides my wise guy style comments. Your awesome Tubalcain!
Extremely interesting to see this early and rare milling machine, One of the J&S surface grinding machines I used to build in the 60s and 70s, had a hydraulic motor too, and it powered the crossfeed, called a 'vane' motor, when it worked, was the smoothest quietest feed ever, speed variable by a knob, you just made me remember this boring fact lol, looking forward to seeing some restoration on this interesting piece of history thanks, Dave
My dad bought that same machine. I loved using the table feed. That spindle taper is more stout than the R8 and the ability to change tools working at chest height rather than having to reach the top of mill head was a huge benefit to my WWII DAV dad. My brother has it now. A SWEET machine.
Thanks
John
👍👍
Nice seeing your new machine. Some fun functions to explore.
That is a cool mill. The Z and ZZ collets were used in a number of applications. My Oliver 287 wood shaper used them for router bus. Also used on my rotary mill attachment for the Bridgeport. My Bridgeport is a round ram and it’s rigid. I don’t like tramming so I am fine with it. Looking forward to seeing you seeing it run.
👍👍
What a beautiful '60's machine, and that amazing color too.
If you stare at it, real quietly, you can just hear...
"Thunderbirds are GO"
Hi Lyle, I believe 150 of these machines were all together built. I was lucky to purchase a South Bend Mill recently that came from a school in Oregon and is in a pretty good condition. I added a VFD to run it at 220v. I have so far also added a DRO on X & Y. The best thing I added was an ER40 chuck and collet set. I had to take the spindle off to oil it etc. These changes made the mill a very versatile mill. I am very happy with it. I am sure you are an expert but any information you might need I will be happy to provide. all the best. Hossein
👍👍👍
i liked the time lapse of you taking the cover off, first time ive seen you do that , that i can recall. great vid lyle
Thanks
First time seeing this Mill. It looks fantastic and love the complexity of it! Thanks for the video.
Thank you for sharing. Very much enjoyed.
I have some end mill and face mill holders that would fit that spindle
Guessing the reason for hydraulics was to get infinitely variable force for drilling (The BP idea is fine for boring but for drilling can be a PITA if the feed rate is too high)
Does that table feed slide over the other gear box when the table is moved fully to the left? I can see no other reason it is so long.
That's pretty neat. Thanks Mr Pete.
I had a 32" table version SBM, with manual movements only. Was not fond of the 30taper tool holders, but did have all of the double angle collets from 1/4 up to 3/4" . I found it fairly easy to cut the pockets to modify other 30 taper holders, using a carbide endmill. Mine was single phase, but would have rather had 3 phase to get variable speed with a VFD, but no way to power with a conventional 3 ph motor. AFAIK ....it still lives a couple blocks away with the new owner.
👍👍
Looks like a interesting machine. Have to wonder if some of the "features" are to avoid patent issues
Very interesting. Great presentation. Keep up the great work.
Thank's Mr. Pete for the walk us around your new treasure, I'm looking forward to future video's of you getting this old girl making chips again. I really liked the goodie box portion, not sure why but I was mesmerized checking out the contents, it was almost as if that was my box of goodies I was pawing through looking for a valuable tool, I'm pretty sure I have a I have THD, tool hoarder disorder! I own a 1956 Cincinatti Toolmaster that has the same issue as the South Bend, Motor directly over the spindle, perhaps they thought Cincinatti had a good idea and copied it but it isn't a great plan in reality. I am intrigued by the power feed setup on your South Bend, really complex but having survived for 50 plus years must be well made. My Toolmaster had a power feed that was located on the left side of the table, had the gearing and motor hanging off the back side with the speed selector handles on the front, notoriously weak and it is not often you see one that is in working order as I bought mine with the gearbox and motor missing and have been told they are as rare as hens teeth. Thanks again!
I think the engineers ran amuck on this mill. High quality, probably so. The complexity of the table feed and the quill feed probably made the bridgeport even more attractive. You could put a bridgeport of the same age in a modern toolroom , This mill not so much.
great walk through. I would have snapped that mill up in a second in years past when I had more space than money.
Got around to watching your video. You need an ar collet setup. Let me dig through my archives, I rescued a #30 ar body one time, but where did I stash it. No collets.
The trays were probably sized to hold Pratt an Whitney square guage blocks. Old method but very accurate.
Great video
Very fascinating on how in that Era they solved problems and the problems that were caused by the solution. Please Please put the extra effort to bring her back to her former glory. She would probably be the only one in the world as southbend sold them. I know there are parts and pieces out there for her. I would gladly donate anything I can for her.
Very interesting Mr Pete - thank you to Lost Creek Machine !!!
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I really enjoyed getting a good look at this machine. The comparisons to the Bridgeport are really interesting.
Hey Mr Pete that’s some engineering job I bet there was a lot of head scratching when that was built great stuff thanks
Can you imagine designing that on paper? It shows just how good design engineers used to be.
I have seen one, It was so many years ago I cannot remember much about it other than I do remember seeing it in a cluttered shop someplace in my travels.
Thank you for the tour!
Verniers. They worked in the old days. I don't know what's changed. I still have a set of Lufkin rods (and micrometers) for a jig boring machine around here somewhere. The micrometers were color-coded for x and y movements. Thanks for the memories.
super interesting , i just got one that looks the same except for a few details , i am looking forward to discover what you will be doing with it , thank you -great video for me !
😀😀
My Wells Index model 40 uses a Brown and sharpe #9 taper in the spindle. I would rather it be a Morse. I also have the x feed, with the shaft drive, the little motor uses step pullys. Good video.
Thank you Mr. Pete, I’ve been looking forward to this walk around since the delivery video.
Very nice. Good explanation too of the machine.
Another great video and I am happy to see another one of these mills. I have the same SB mill but without the “bells and whistles”.
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Thank You. Nice machine. Great to see it.
Very interesting machine, I have never seen or heard of one. Thanks for sharing.
I just got one of these mills yesterday, no idea what I’m doing , hopefully you’ll make some videos of you showing how to operate it
Thanks for a great watch.
Very good overview of the machine,, Back when it was new it must have been the Cadillac of milling machines.
Yes, a Cadillac with too many tail fins.
I have a wells index vertical mill that's uses number 9 brown and sharps collete and a Cincinnati vertical Mill l like both those mills I use a bridge port vertical mill at work
An exciting new project! You need to get a wood (or coal) fired heater for the garage shop!
Nice machine Mr. Pete. Sometimes it's ok for a few things to need fixing on a new used machine. We get to better understand how they are designed along with attributes and shortcomings.
Hi again Mr Pete good luck with your project boy I am so glad that I have a Bridgeport clone as a beginner the South bend seems to be pretty involved .Maybe wi'll see a clip of you firing it up and oiling it thanks again love your videos junk man
What are you waiting on Lyle Looking forward to the update thanks for sharing
You were talking about Index mills, I have a number 40 ( with B&S #9 taper) , I could not stand the Index head so I put a Bridgeport J head on it. The Index base only weights 435 pounds so I was able to get that easily into my basement
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I have a predecessor machine that looks identical to the single piece base South Bend machine except that the head says VAN and the knee screw is on the right not the left. I believe my mill was made in the early 50's in San Francisco. Given the massive similarities, I suspect that South Bend bought the design and molds to make their model.
I found a South Bend right angle attachment about 10 years ago that fits perfectly.
Very interesting
I may have made this comment before but I have only seen one of these machines in my lifetime. The guy who had it wanted me to modify the spindle to operate like a Bridgeport milling machine. I suggested he swap out the head with a Bridgeport head.
Great walk around and description. If the hydraulic or "monstrosity" doesn't work and takes to much to fix maybe you could remove it to conserve a bit of space. Maybe making a half door for the hydraulic box would enable you to keep original one whole. If it matters.
Excellent review there were some real design issues you highlighted. Made me laugh. A tag line I am using on my channel is “It’s too cold and I am too old” some things will have to wait for better weather. LOL.
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Nice machine. Great video. Thank you for sharing.
Never seen one of these mills. Interesting video. Thanks!
GREAT VIDEO SIR! Have a great day.
Mr. Pete - Thank you for the tour - I really enjoy seeing old machines (Old ARN!) and a glimpse into the thought process of the design and manufacture of them. As for the hydraulic cabinet, couldn't you simply hinge the current cover and install a latch or thumbscrew. It seems like splitting the cover would be an excessive amount of work... additionally, if the bump and hydraulics don't work on the machine... will you pull them off or just leave them?
If the pump does not work properly I may just remove it, and simplify the machine
I had seen one of these for sale in the flea market at a local steam show a few years ago it had the power feed and a set of ZZ collets .The machine was in good condition and it sold in about one hour for $1400.00
Fascinating mill...
Looks like a very nice project. Enjoy !
"...I will not be putting this (South Bend) mill in the basement beside my Bridgeport..." I have the same problem with two of my dogs.
They are jealous too and fight when I am not around... :) Ha ha!
lol
I remember one of the milling machines in high school back in 1970, having a small rudimentary type of readout, with a small green screen on it. I can't remember what make of machine it was though, but it wasn't a Bridgeport.
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Looks like an easy conversion to ER 40 collects.We did it on our Cinci Toolmaster. I would take them over R-8 anytime. Grab a set of ChiCom ER collects that cost just over a C note. They not only hold any size mill, including ones that R-8 wont, but you can use them for any size drill from 1/8 to 1" ,,,,, We can hold a couple thousandths TIR all day long too! - Not mad for a 4o year old machine, huh? We got the chinisum collects to see how they work with the intent of getting better ones later as needed but they work so well we are still using them after 2 years and haven't replaces a single one.
With a couple of tweeks like a couple of cheap VFDs (One for the spindle and one for the feed (Which will give you rapid) and you will be in far=t city with this mill. (The chi-com LCD readouts and kind of neat too,,,,and really cheep to boot,),,,,OH we programmed the VFD and it stops or even reverse in 1/2 second. Who needs the brake.
After a little work and a few bucks I think you got a class A winner there Mr Pete. ou will soon forget the BP.
Thank you for the excellent suggestion
Hi Lyle, I can't decide if that collet would be easier on my Lagun mill with an R8 spindle. Right now I have to step on a stool to loosen the draw bar and I'm 5' 8". It's tall. I have to twist the head if I need to remove the draw bar.
I am also 5’8”. I cannot remove the drawbar from my Bridgeport without tilting the head
@@mrpete222 Ha. Thought I was alone in that. Thanks for the videos.
With that huge fly-cutter tool I don't see how you could ever tighten the setscrews that hold the tool in the spindle taper.
There also seems to be no reason for that long housing on the longitudinal feed. Maybe it is making room for some other accessory.
Great video, I would love to own this machine, but I think I would get rid of hydraulics as the clean lines of the machine shines though👌👍
Nice acquisition sir. Always wanted to pick a mill like this up, but never did. Maybe I should set my sights lower😁 Thanks for the walk-around 👍
Interesting milling machine. It looks to be a great unit for the home shop. Question I have is can you not use a modern milling 30 taper modified with the notch, with an ER 30 or 40 collet system? If so that would open up a larger array of collets and erase that disadvantage of no R8 collet system. Out side of that that’s the only drawback I see on the mill. The other question is are you doing static or rotary phase converter on this mill? From what I see on your Bridgeport it appears your using a static converter. That’s what’s on my mill and I never had an issue
I will probably modify several tool holders. I use a rotary converter
In regards to your side cover on the hydraulics: as to not terribly mangle the beautiful original cover, perhaps a piano style hinge on the back and two tool box style latches on the front? you could keep all sorts of angle plates or rotary tables/dividing heads in that bottom shelf? I would love to see a full restore on this machine, myself........ hint hint - ALSO: could you do a quick video of taking measurements of the collets you need? Length, size at each end and in the fat part in the center, etc - I have BOXES of old. odd looking collets from buying out various machinery liquidators and would certainly donate them to you if I knew they were for your machine
i think the hydraulic feed was used to broach internal key ways more than it was for drilling.
I *KNEW* that mill wouldn't wait until spring!!
If I had that machine, I would probably see if the hydrolic down feed worked, do a video on it, and then streamline the machine by removing it (put it in storage). Hope you don't mind my 2 cents.
How do you engage the fine feed for the quill? On the handle quick downfeed does it have a spring for return like on a drillpress or is it just a manual return?
Thanks for the video! Hello from Ottawa. 😀👍
Another great video, thanks for all of these over the years! I have the same machine sans the larger table, hydraulic feed and power gearbox. Galaxy Products in Sylvania Ohio makes collets for that universal holder, I suspect these might be a bit pricy, though. I have not been able to find the zz collets used. Do you need a sketch of the missing quill drive pin?
Thank you, but I already made one from memory, lol
33:45 is surely an image for a 'caption competition' - what is she saying or thinking ?
Hi again Mr Pete after viewing the last couple minutes of the video with the brochure sure looks a lot nicer all stripped down maybe yours needs to go on a diet that's truly up to you though good luck and have fun JM
Thanks for the video.
so many times I have found the down feed mechanism on bridgeports not working, seems to be a common problem.
Your old Index 55 or similar was B&S #9 rather than MT. Later they migrated to R8. Boy that X feed was complex; did it run the Y too?
Mr Pete I just got my first mill it's a south bend like yours but later model With the box table feed where can I get a wrench for the weird number Collett nut mine came with a bunch of Collett but no wrench also having trouble getting wired up to the drum switch mine has a clark with 8 positions and a start pole the paper under the cover is burnt can only read
Two things. First of all mine is missing the wrench also. I am using a spanner wrench, that does not fit all that well, but works fine. I am looking for the correct wrench also. I do have that wrench in the larger size, but it is meant for my other machines.
Secondly, I cannot help you with your electrical problem. My machine has an Allen Bradley control.
How about moving the hydraulic pump to the bottom shelf and using the the top shelf for storage? Good video.
Wow. I’m not sure if the complexity of that South Bend has a equal advantage over the “ease of use” of a Bridgeport. Good luck getting it running.
Was there a cover for where the rods went to prevent chips from throwing off your measurement?
I haven't seen one myself. But I know HGR in Ohio has one for sale, but it's a Bridgeport clone badged as South Bend. Maybe it's a Grizzly?
To your point on chinese mills not being available in 1969. I wished they weren’t available now. I have went to extreme measures only to have USA made mills, lathes, saws, shaper. These vintage American machines, in my opinion will always take me back to a time when this country created the best.
Agreed
Very interesting video.Some features may be simplified or deleted I hope.Thank you.
Good morning Mr.Pete
Thanks for sharing 👍
It is a great machine. And of course the second generation would be better. Thanks for an interesting video.
It would have been nice to see lost creek donate that machine to someone who needed it
But, look at the free advertising they got by donating to Mr. Pete. I’d never heard of Lost Creek Machine until I saw this video. Besides, how many people who “needed it” would have the skills to restore it?
Hey Mr.Pete. I bought one of these mills a few months ago and intend to restore it this spring. I am greatly looking forward to this video series. My mill is missing the handle used to raise/lower the knee. Any chance you could cast me a replacement? Thanks!
I’m sure he would too.