Cello Vibrato ...for Adults
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มี.ค. 2017
- A few suggestions for how to develop a relaxed vibrato...with adults in mind! Yes, adult cello students have some extra challenges, when it comes to learning vibrato. Here I present a few tips and tricks that helped me build vibrato.
40 year old beginner here. Thank you so much for addressing adult challenges so well! Your concepts such as "sustaining the note" "feeding energy into it" "without the bow" (and yes, "lotus... and incense") helped me to better grasp the function of vibrato. You gave me something to actually work with, instead of the typical frustrated attempts.
Glad it was helpful, Myra!
I’m 51 yo started learning three years ago, this is fantastic and very helpful. Thank you!
Glad if it helped!
Thank you so much! I’m 60, basically learning on my own for the past 2 years, and I’m playing in an orchestra in a large church. Anyway, having only played in it 2 different times, my vibrato has begun to do the tense, desperate wiggle, because of the stress of playing the music well!!!! So, this video is very helpful! I have actually forgotten my nice vibrato I’d had before playing in this orchestra, so now I have almost no vibrato because of the tension. Very discouraging and disappointing!! So I will definitely try these exercises! I’m putting this video in my notes for future reference!
Glad if it helped! Yes, I know firsthand that orchestra can be stress inducing 😬
Yes, well done. Thanks you. It really helped me in my quest in the magical world of vibratodom
As a beginner older adult to Suzuki cello I loved the tips you gave, I appreciated you putting this up on you tube. Hello from New Zealand.
Thank you so very much! This is the best example of vibrato. You are excellent teacher. 🎉🎉🎉
That's sweet of you! I am not a teacher though. (well, at least not a cello teacher!) Just a forever-student trying to help others :)
Thanks
Common sense approach -I will try all of your tips!
Thank you for ur tips, very helpful indeed! I ll definitely try it
Do you have a cello series? It’s refreshing to hear about experiences from another adult learner.
Sorry, I only just now saw your comments thanks. I haven't thought of doing a series, since I am very much a student myself, but maybe when I get a bit more experience under my belt :)
Thanks a lot! I appreciate the flexibility of your approach.
Thank You!! Will work on this soon!!
Thanks so much for showing different approaches to vibrato on the cello
Glad if it helped!
Thanks a lot! You really hit the nail on the head with the "rigor mortis death grip".....LOL. That "Indian" exercise really works. It has loosened up my vibrato considerably. Happy practising, all of you adult students. Greetings from Izelle, in Strand (near Cape Town), South Africa.
Oh, I know Strand! I grew up in southern Africa and have been going back each winter for a few years!
Great advice and so funny.. 🤣👍
Thank you! This was very helpful. I am going to try it today.
Thanks, glad it was helpful and hopefully not too wordy.
Brilliant video! Thank you
Glad if it helped!
THANK YOU!
Wow, you just connected the dots for me. Thank you for the woa woa explanations.
Thanks, glad it worked for you!
Thank you so much for making this video! Today during practice, I was finally able to get my first vibrato going (on my second and third fingers), thanks to your tips and exercises. Especially your insight on what it's like to be learning this as an adult was very helpful!
Yay! Glad it helped!
Cello is an amazing instrument! I've been learning since I was eight years old. Vibrato is one of the best "tools" to make a beautiful sound, for any stringed instrument. I have seen kids getting a little bit tense when they try vibrato, (or do it the wrong way on the fingerboard.) You're definently right when it comes to relaxing when doing vibrato. :)
Sorry, I only just now noticed your comment! Thanks and glad if you found it useful. Relaxation... is everything with strings. I become more and more convinced of that, the further I go.
Thank you. Really good tips here.
Thanks!
16:55 Yo-Yo Ma plays vibrato with his first nuckle bent like that.
Thanks this has been quite helpful.
Glad if it was helpful!
My vibrating fingers are usually pretty much straight from 4th position through thumb position, bending in a bit on the very highest notes.
We all have to try different things and be willing to change to get the quality of sound that we want.
@@keithwms I'm 35 and started learning about a year ago. My vibrato still sounds very twitchy and it still feels very awkward.
I didn't know about practicing with pizzicato. Trying to sustain the note seems like a natural way to mitigate the death grip (which I still occasionally do despite my thumb not touching) I'll definitely have to try this. Also at 15:03 I never heard of this either. I type a lot so I'm used to my palm facing down. I hope this method will come more naturally for me.
I really appreciate you sharing some insights. It gives more options to explore. 👍 Thanks again!
@@Kenji1685 Ah, well, rest assured that everybody's vibrato is a work in progress when you are only a few years in. Keep it up, you'll eventually win!
Thank you for your videos! I'm an adult starter violist (5 yrs into it). Your videos have been very beneficial in approaching the common problems - from a cellist's perspective rather than from a violinist's.
Thanks!
Thank you for sharing your expertise Keith, definitely helpful to this adult.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Hooda! I see we share a love for Bach.. :)))))
@@jsbach9848 Bach is for betas..
@@greekyogurt2855 Pray, what is betas?
I'm 25 yrs old and and it's been more than 2 yrs since i started learning the cello at the church, unfortunately they don't teach vibrato. Trying to learn by myself has been extremely difficult as i notice the tension on the left hand comes and go. The exercise at 7:50 actually gave me a relaxed and almost controllable motion feeling that i was struggling to achieve before, thanks, that's a noticeable improvement for me. My cello is somewhat harsh in a sounding way and also a little "heavy" for both hands (it's not a fine instrument), even after a luthier had it setup. But maybe with a smooth vibrato, i could extract a better tone out of it. I would love to see another video like this with some exercises for the first and fourth finger. Thanks again
Thanks, I will cook up some exercises for first and fourth. Fourth finger vibrato is really hard for many people, and I've seen some really exotic solutions. I think a lot of us tend to feel our knuckles lock on the 4 finger.
Initially, you will probably only achieve a nice sounding vibrato with *one* finger (probably 2) on *one* string (probably D) on *one* small part of the fingerboard (probably somewhere in 3rd position). If that is the case then... be happy! You can grow from that. The key is to find your sweet spot, and then spread that sweetness :)
Suppose you can achieve a nice, slow, steady vibrato with 3 on the D-string on a G or an A. Both notes are good initial choices because the adjacent strings can serve as a center-tone reference and give you the most complementary vibration. You can see them move when you are right on the note.
I would first try other fingers on the same note, and just "wawawa" back and forth, hand moving far above ether fingerboard, until you are convinced that all joints from your fingertip all the way back to your shoulder are fully relaxed. Then you will probably find that you can start "pumping" the vibration from further and further back, thus avoiding a twitchy sounds from the fingers.
If you post a short vid of where you are on that, I think I and others can give feedback. Not that vids can be unlisted (the links can be kept private), if you wish.
Stick with it! We cello learners are always one little epiphany away from something really amazing! The rate of progress is exponential...a long, slow start, and then zoooom to something great!
Thanks!
Thank you, Keith. This encourages me as I struggle to achieve a nice vibrato at age 75. I recently returned to cello after nearly 60 years and hadn't previously had any tutoring in vibrato.
Glad to hear it. Now let's hear that vibrato!
Congratulations Jim! I just started cello 2 months ago at age 68... no previous experience. However, I know music and played violin 50 years ago! Now I'm slowly learning cello! Keep up the good work.
So great to see your comment! I just turned 73, and have been taking cello lessons for about a year, wondering if I'll ever be able to produce anything that sounds like music. This video, and the replies, are really encouraging. Now, time to tune my cello -- have a lesson in an hour. Thanks for sharing!
"...the canvas is not so fresh..." I hear ya, brother!
Alas the canvas is even less fresh than it was when I made the vid three years ago :D
Much appreciate your clarity and common-sensical, adaptively oriented suggestions and admonitions. One item I have never seen addressed in the myriad vibrato (and other) cello tutorials I've seen is the issue of "securing" the cello while vibrato-ing -- it seems to me that there needs to be some pressure from the knees on the cello so the force of the fingers on the string and fingerboard effectively are directed there and not transferred into motion of the cello body. Yes? Thanks!
Good point. I didn't have lower-body posture in mind when I made this, but it's very important... and overlooked, since we spend so much time on the upper body.
Thanks for the response ... so, yes, we do need to "secure" the body of the cello as we vibrato?
"Secure" is a good term, yes. We definitely don't want to ~clamp~ the instrument too rigidly with the knees, but we do need to secure it. And the knees do the securing, ~not~ the LH thumb. That's something that many beginners find challenging: to relax the vibrating hand as much as possible. Good knee hold helps that happen.
Many cellists vibrate their open strings by waving the four fingers in the air above the fingerboard and letting the vibration couple to the instrument via the thumb. That doesn't work if the instrument is too firmly clamped.
P.S. Notice that there is quite a lot of flex around the endpin joint, which I think is especially important if you do the open-string thumb vibrato. I would suggest securing the cello against one knee to see just how much flex there can be there.
Great hint about vibrating an open string with the thumb. Also it occurs to me--if I have this right--that much of the vibrational motion is basically along the same axis of the cello fingerboard and body ... hence much of the to/fro force is braced by the endpin connection to the floor. Still--and I'm just getting the hang of vibrato--I find myself steading the body against my left knee. I guess I'll see how it all evolves, and nods to your encouraging works in progress. Thanks again!
I liked how you broke down how to do the vibrato and why older players might have a harder time learning.
Can you (unrelated) tell us what makes a luthier's cello worth so much more money than one bought from a workshop that's more concerned with selling more numbers...like a Eastman Strings or Jay Haide...I've looked. No one on TH-cam has talked about it. Luthiers. "experienced" players. I haven't found a video talking about it.
Would a luthier's cello possibly had more bracing? Or, are their internal parts exactly the same. I guess I'm trying to find out if they're just taking people for an expensive ride.
I sued to play the cello as a boy when I was in JHS. Then quit before I left JHS. Now I'm loving the sound of the cello again. Considering learning again. So I'm curious...
Grand piano TH-cam videos are so much more informative talking about the instrument.
Excellent video. Like your approach.
Glad you liked the vid!
Some luthier's cellos are worth so much because the woods and finishes are so individually optimized. At the very highest level, the final setup is done with a specific performer in ind, and that can make a huge difference, because our physiologies are all so different.
If you really want to understand the difference between an individually optimized instrument and something less tailored, you might try to see the cello "in the white" - unfinished, before any finishes are applied. At that stage, an expert luthier is able to optimize the sound of the instrument with very small changes, e.g. to the inside thickness of the top, in select areas. The overall sound of the instrument can be very substantially changed at this point, well before it is finished.
The casual observer only sees the outside of the instrument- the pretty wood finish and the f-holes and overall silhouette, and a lot of things that don't matter much to sound production. An expert luthier lives inside the box! (S)hethereyouknowSome changes are heard immediately; others, well, the Cremonese luthiers probably had no idea how good their instruments would sound, centuries later.
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withvalue of all the things that will enable you to play it well. We're talking about many, many thousands of dollars of lessons, strings, bows, rehairs and other servicing, music, and of course time. In the big picture, for most of us, the cello itself is a relatively minor upfront investment, compared to all that.
7:43 that what I was doing! :( I'm annoyed when I don't put the finger in exactly right place and the pitch is out of tune, I somehow started doing this bad kind of vibrato to cheat on the pitch. Now I'm aware of it and I'll try to stop this wrong habit. Thank you for great instructions. I'm just at the beginning of my way, but the vibrato issue will be my thing one day... :D
Thanks, glad it was helpful!
Thank you for pronouncing "vibrato" properly.
Haha
I got the 2/3 fingers vibrato really well, the 1st one is almost there but my pinkie is having some issues getting the same wideness. Any tips?
Oh yes, pinkie is hard for most of us. You may find that the only way to vibrate it consistently is to keep it straight and coming at the note almost perpendicular to the string.
Another strategy I have seen, and used with some success around 4th position, is to simply cozy 3 right up against 4 and treat it like one big fat, fleshy finger! You can get a very nice broad vib that way. Let me see, I think I spotted Denise Djokic going this route.
Hi Keith, Thanks you for these great tips! May I ask, as an adult learner, at what age did you start learning the cello? I started this past February at age 46. Also how soon should one start learning vibrato, after starting cello, couple months into it, a year?
Hi Hellina, I started at 42, if I remember correctly.
This may help: don't think of vibrato as being "on" or "off"... think of it as being an option that will be there if you set yourself up for it. You can start preparing for vibrato right away; in fact, I think many of the skills associated with early vibrato will help your intonation, even before you are doing full vibrato. Three ingredients: (i) listen to vibratos! Find some cello and vocal vibratos that you like. Slow them down on youtube. Become a student of what it is that you like. (ii) Keep a loose thumb, not flattened out, barely touching the back of the neck; (iii) be willing to slide into a note, and slide around a bit until it sounds just right to you and you get the best resonance. For that we have to dispense with the notion that we always land in exactly the right spot and stay there.
Actually, the best string players don't lock or grip into a note, they allow a fraction of a second of adjustment. Get to know the transient "slurps" and how to use them to your advantage. Try sliding into and out of notes and make our fretted colleagues fret! Have fun with it. The first step is to relaxxxx...
My first vibrato started coming out in a year or so. And then it sort of expanded and personalized over many years. At first I had one twitchy vibrato. Then I got ore of a wahwah vibrato. Now it's closer to what I want... variable speed and amplitude. That took, gosh, 5 years.
damn, i can relate to this. i hav a quite unique situation. imagine this, music + rock climbing hahahahaha. a very unpopular sport which dont have classical musicians in its community. on one hand, a very delicate care for fingers, on the other, you want your fingers to be as hard as steel. (we actually have a training book called 'fingers of steel'). im very familiar with vibrato cz i do that in classical (nylon) guitar .. since high school. i easily transferred the technique to my exploration of the violin in my late 20s. i actually took classes for piano when i was a grader and still can read notes, an advantage later. i am currently exploring / learning bits about advanced music theory for my dream to write music as a guitar player (classical / electric) / generalist (i can also play the drums and was a 'sessionist' for a rock band. but let's rewind a bit .... when i got to college i got addicted to rock / sport climbing and became semi pro / pro. if youve visited a climbing gym, observe how the advanced climbers train their fingers :) it's heart breaking. imagine, hanging with just one finger, carrying the full body weight and other extremely hard finger strengthening exercises. .. byebye vibrato! although i already left climbing a few years ago, i already developed this really stiff arm, fingers. NOW, i just bought my first cello 2 weeks ago and im gonna be 40 this year. good luck to me!! 🤣😭😝😢🤪 .. and your tips makes a lot of sense!! thanks Keith! .. and btw, i just heard about that 'mute' thing from you. cz i was always worried about the awful sounds i make while practicing cello might have seriously disturbed my neighbors hahaha. im gonna grab one asap! i hope it helps.
Haha, good luck!
The good news is that the driving motion behind the most pleasing cello vibratos is substantially less in the fingers and wrist, and more from the forearm. We typically don't do the same finger vibrato that many violinists and violists do. (It's fun to annoy my violin/viola colleagues with large-amplitude vibrato on their instrument, cello style!)
So... my expectation is that you'll find a vibrato that works well, despite the repetitive stress on the fingers and wrist.
I suppose your climbing might give you more bend around the first knuckle, that might actually be helpful. I think the main thing to remember is that there are actually no major muscles in your fingers- it (surprisingly!) comes from much further back. How has your climbing trained the way you distribute power through your fingers? It'll be interesting to see.
Good luck and enjoy the process!
For some reason I hadn't even considered not using the bow 🤦♂️
Hehe, glad if it helped. I'm ~ten years into cello and my teachers still have me set the bow aside, every now and then. Sometimes we just need to eliminate a few variables!
When I try vibrato I can literally hear my finger tips making a crunching noise. Not the joint,the actual flesh,and it hurts!
You may want to try more of a pad vibrato- bring the finger pad down on the note, not the tip of the finger or the side. Try keeping your finger straight and almost perpendicular to the string. The hand is typically lower to the fingerboard for this.
@@keithwms thanks,I will try that.