Tainted Lazarus is much more fun to play if you approach him as a challenge character that turns TBoI into a puzzle game rather than 'Jacob and Esau but you only have one per room'
the flip rework with the ghost items honestly always confused me within the context of every other character. jacob and esau requires heavy management but you get 2 guys shooting at once, tainted lost dies rapidly but he's statwise the strongest and has the sacred orb passive. so when looking at the state of tainted lazarus, instead of giving him something to make him have merit over everyone else, they decided to give him less of a reduction in items. as if to say they have no intention of making him effective, just playable. blue baby still has this issue to some extent, but devil deals being cheap is at least something over isaac. It's like if their big fix for tainted jacob was to double esau's health so he still died almost instantly to spike rocks and glitched the mega satan fight, he just did it a little slower.
Honestly, I find the concept of "challenge" characters in Isaac to be severely antiquated, and I think Nicalis would probably agree. The game is challenging enough, just give me characters with different tools to conquer the depths. Changing "challenge" characters to be glass cannons is the best way to go about this.
i am one of the 4 last t laz players, thank you very much. anyways, a flip buff idea is to keep its 6 room charge (or maybe even bring it down to 4, if edmund is generous enough) and just give flip one free use when entering a treasure room. that way, you are guaranteed to get both treasure room items, but you will still need enough charges for things like deal items, boss items (if that gets added), and for combat purposes. also, i think 3.2 tear rate is a little too much, i think 3.0 tears, 1.1 speed, and 1 luck is good enough stat boots, and it would be very thematic, because, as you said in the video about jacob and esau, one mans weakness is another mans strength. (dead t lazarus's weakness is lower tears, speed, and luck) now please stop dogshitting on my boy t laz i love him very much :(
I don't know if you know this, but the thing that decides if an item has a ghost item is VERY simple. "was it generated on floor gen" or more practically "was the item there when you entered the room". This is the reason why fx. boss items cannot be flipped. To make boss items be flipable you would have to make ALL items flipable or it's rules would not make sense.
@@nicklasbertelsen8717 I want ALL ITEMS to be flippable. Right now as is, the mechanic feels half baked and being a ghost item that disappears makes the minmaxing agonisingly tedious.
@@tanktheta I just flat out disagree. There are many better ways to buff t.laz that makes him more fun and unique. But you already don't have enough charges, and it would make it even harder to use flip for combat. And making it 4 charge or something would not make him better. Likely just a difference in opinion but still.
This was a good video explaining Tainted Lazarus weaknesses, but there is a slight misinformation in the video. You can get more than 1 boss item with them, in fact you can get 3 which is more than the average character. This is done with boss challenge rooms, its items are actually flippable and is something I would recommend even if its risky, though sometimes you can enter with not 1 hp by secret room, teleport or other methods. This is not the only advantage of challenge rooms, they also give charges for flip. Ignoring challenge rooms is one of the biggest mistakes I see people make with tainted Lazarus. Though I still agree that flip should be 4 charges. I dont fully agree with flip being unusable in combat since by the time you reach cathedral you wont get many items, and the items in chest arent flipable anyway, so another tip is dont be discouraged from using flip after womb 2 Great video still
who would lower their health to 1 heart for 2 items when you have 2 kids to feed (i know about the secret room entrance being free but how often does that happen) lol
@@PixelOWRIts risky but if you dont do it you will be underpowred for the rest of the run, and you dont have to do it on every floor, doing it on basement 2, downpour 2 and caves 2 is already enough to have decent stats. The good side is that only one of them has to be at 1 heart
Funny you mention that, I had a section in the script about Boss Challenge Rooms that was cut for pacing reasons, but you are absolutely correct. I have tried on a good few occasions to use them though I've never had much luck with them (though that's probably just me being bad).
As someone that’s been playing since base Rebirth, I can confidently say that pre rework Tainted Laz is easily one of the worst characters in this game’s history. Up there with the pre-rework versions of Keeper and Tainted Jacob, and even No Mantle Lost.
I thought this was a big isaac channel thanks to the quality of the editing, but how in the world as this only have around 700views?? This deserves so much better, keep up the great work, it's wonderfull! OvO (And I can see that you kinda like fear and hunger)
A) Flip I don't know if you know this, but the thing that decides if an item has a ghost item is VERY simple. "was it generated on floor gen" or more practically "was the item there when you entered the room". This is the reason why fx. boss items cannot be flipped. So either of those way of stating it would have been a better way of explaining it. This is also the reason i am very skeptical of allowing only the boss pedestal to now be flipable, because it is an exception to a rule without due justification, and makes Flip harder to actually understand the rules of. I also think a better change to Flip, would just be saying "if it didn't actually flip an item, it recovers 2 (or 3) charges". Which would allow it greater use in combat without strengthening the utility. I also think the 3 free uses of Flip is actually not that overpowered (if it kept the 6 charges afterwards like it should). My complaint against that idea is that it undermines the focus of T.Laz which in my mind is thinking ahead on when to clear rooms, and to manage active charges, along with the normal flipping more than you would on other characters. Even things like Apollyon is not near as intensive in the importance of balancing active charges. B) Unbalance between characters Also Dead lazarus is NOT a straight upgrade. -2 luck is horrible for many items, especially powerful items like holy light or parasitoid. He is still stronger overall, but not just straight up. I do mostly agree with the tears up tho. I would maybe also just give Alive Laz the blood trail at least after taking damage, mostly because it works well with his lower range (and higher knockback with the buff), but also because it helps with roomclearing which in most games will be his job and focus, because Dead Laz then get's all the boss fight items. C) The characters PROS Also, there are a few VERY important Pros you fail to mention. 1. You say you can clear a room if you want an item on the other lazarus, but don't mention that you can take an item, flip, clear a room, to get both items on the SAME character. Same goes for when there are enemies already in the room, like the little battery sucking flies in item rooms, or the devil thingies in devil rooms, and angel statues in angel rooms. Just take the item before clearing the room and then flip, clear, take again. 2. Additionally the ability to carry 2 consumables is incredibly valuable both for the utility of saving both for later, but more importantly for final bosses and the like. Being able to use things like a drowsy pill and temporary buff card in the same boost is an important upside. 3. Also active items for the exact same reason as pills obviously. But it is also important to note here that giving the weaker side a room clearing active to make up for not giving him stat ups is very important. 3. You can also just straight up have more HP for final bosses. With up to 16 hearts on both sides. And then you just flip when 1 get's low That said all your character videos i have seen so far are incredibly good, with both good scripting and such, and incredible editing. Edit: jesus this comment got way longer than it should have, so i have organized it a little better.
Very underrated comment. Just like T Lazarus. I think the main reason, why people hate him, is that TL gameplay forces you to work with your brain, count charges and flips after clearing room (which makes greed more as him super-strategic). On the other hand you can rush through the floor, using flip without backtracking (T Samson enjoyers). Minding is suddenly unenjoyable for most. Actually T Lazarus has great concept behind it. It makes you evolve two characters in one run (unlike with j and e when you can grab everything costable by one and just defending another's hitbox), giving each side the most relatable items. Here come different starting stats, range upgrade is necessary for the living form as well as luck-based items, when the dead form lucks of speed and tears (and health) which should be made in the first place. Also ghost-side itmes let you gain better builds than as other characters, and there's two of them! That being said, I can't understand Edmund when there wasn't ghost-items on the rep release. Now with rep+ flip is 4 charges... Easier greed and nothing else, however ghost-form for boss item would fit there well, making tlaz even easier, while pre rep+ flip wouldn't let you take all the ghost items with the potential second boss item. In conclusion T Laz is super strategically based character as he were developed, it actually is balanced well, but just unappreciated/black sheeped (and there's additionally much things devs thought on to make him work, wich we can rarely point on). It's just about community build of epilepsy-enjoyers (Gggfuel seed is fun af). And there's few interesting synergies exclusively for T Laz. Mega Mush turns only one side into the giant, each flip to the other form saves duration of the effect which lets you easily hold one form always under mm effect; D...room restarter dice let you flip in the right moment, charge active of the other form, so it's better to use in the big rooms. Sorry for semi-well english!
@@ПростоГриша-г8л yeah exactly. I thing T.laz is super fun when i am in the right mindset. And it is the ONLY character that real makes me feel like i make a lot of mistakes. He is so complex and interesting to play. And the only thing he would ever really need is as i said a stat up or some other change to living laz. The rep+ change really just made him less interesting and challenging to play. T.laz was on the extreme end of macro plays and managing charges and sides, and thinking forwards for how you clear things. The 4 charge kinda just removes a lot of that.
Ah, yes. Flip without thinking. The strongest strategy, as you can get everything. Even though I think flip is more times than not less useful than other items like it that you can find...like the d6.
The ghost item just disappears because 'later game character gotta be harder' but just plays out as 'ok you cant get everything because the rooms weren't paced enough'.
I honestly adore tainted lazarus. Hes a very strategic character. Anyway, people keep forgetting about one thing: He is a defensive character. While his weakness is that he has less items than the rest of the characters, his strength lies in his 2 health bars. While Jacob and Esau struggle with having to manage them at the same time, T. Laz has much easier time with it. Low on health while fighting delirium? When you get to 1 heart left just use flip. There is still an issue with actually trying to get that health, but honestly its not that big of a deal.
Saying he has less items is not even really all that true. Because you can stack by far most items on one side, and then only give the other side some room clear.
I'm impressed at how small this channel is, this revew is amazing, well edited, and well structured as well, I loce the use of fear and hunger + isaac sprites used for the background footage and the ideas given for the rework are pretty good. You've gained yourself a fan!
If I remember correctly from my Tainted Lazarus completion mark runs, I would generally let living Lazarus take all boss items and leave most other special items for dead Lazarus. That way, living Lazarus would have a better chance at survival, and whatever crazy item I get in the treasure room can bolster dead Lazarus' potential. Now, if I were to change Flip in a way that isn't just "make it charge faster", I'd make it also chargeable through taking damage, as if it's under the Habit effect. The original Lazarus' gimmick seemed to be based around strategical deaths to take full advantage of dead Lazarus, so by making Flip recharge through damage, it would fit thematically with the gimmick of Lazarus, and emergency flips could take full advantage of this if a player is struggling in a room. (provided they have enough health to charge Flip and wouldn't mind potentially lowering their Devil/Angel room chances) I don't know how busted or reliable this change would be on Flip, and I'm not sure if it would actually make Tainted Lazarus feel any more unique, considering we already have a few characters who's gimmick is based around taking damage or sustaining low health. (both Samsons, both Eves)
I do think he failed to mention several Pros, like double pills, actives, and how to stack items on 1 while the other only get's room clear items. But at the same time, you are indeed correct, in that he is both Bad, and unfun.
It's undoubtedly been mentioned a number of time, but the rules of items that can be flipped are simply "What items were present when the room was generated?" I think T Laz, while definitely not my favorite character, was always a pretty fun character where you actually had to consider how you split your strong, powerful items versus just stacking most of your damage dealing items onto one character like J&E. Plus, the extra health, active, and pickup are all pretty useful. Flip being changed to a 4 charge for T Laz specifically really helps his gameplay though, and really fixes how he feels to play in most cases! (besides greed mode...)
T laz left so many red, green and (I think) blue herbs behind. He deserves to be sentenced to stand next to a yellow mage casting hurting for all of eternity for taunting us like so. PICK UP YOUR DAMN HERBS
( Bruh I made this comment before I saw ur concept lmao 😭 ) I feel like a good way to fix this would be to make flip cost 8 charges but have a x2 mark on it upon starting just like glowing hourglass, and every time the item is fully charged it grants another charge and continues charging, and being unable to gain charges if the player has stored x5 flip uses, and the reason some items cant be flipped is because the items that have ghost versions are items that are generated with the room itself, rather than being generated after doing a certain thing in the room ( opening chests, paying out arcade machines and beggars, defeating the boss etc. ) I am fine with this but it would be nice to see the boss room item be an exception to this rule. And while I do agree that Alive Laz is worse, this is made to make it easier for the player to balance them ( giving hp to Dead Laz while giving most other stat ups to Alive Laz ). I could see increasing Alive Lazarus’ tear rate from 2.73 to 3.20 or sth similiar tho. And another thing is that Flip’s new version only applies to Tainted Lazarus, rather than being a complete change for Flip
Im going to give my own batshit insane take on a fix; 1) Flip could have infinite use and still not break T.Laz, because the "getting extra items" part is merely making up for the fact that you need 2 characters worth of items. The only downside to this is that you no longer make use of T.Laz's gimmick of having 2 characters, just sticking with whichever one has a better build. So, what if Flip did not use a charge when being used to flip item pedestals? Or maybe picking up an item immediately triggers flip?
Wooo baby he’s 1 of my faves once he gets going but yeahhh he’s got the worst earlygame of any character. Like there’s literally not even not enough rooms in basement 1/2 and maybe even caves two get your doubles items from treasure/shop/devil pools. I’ve personally played around with tweaking him two buff him and making flip on him a 4 room charge basically solves all the issues. And speaking of multiplayer, he’s amazing there because he essentially doubles the amount of items people get (also he gets half off devil deals)
I disagree heavily on T.Apollyon. I think his mechanic is way more boring than normal Apollyon. But that is just my opinion on the internet. And i would also like Tainted Apollyon video myself, because i think he is interesting as a subject.
i think there's one more aspect of T-Lazarus, which makes him a little better character in some regard. You can flip on final bosses, which allows you to tank more hits, if you collected enough hp-ups or soul hearts. It's especially apparent in Greed mode, where you more likely to collect a lot of hp-ups from boss treasure room
The bigger reason why flipping on final bosses, than just more health, is having 2 combat active items and 2 consumables. There are already many Pills and cards that can almost trivialise final bosses. 2 of them makes them double as trivial
i hardly touched t lazarus before flip got reduced to 4 charges with the online update but i still feel like the mechanic is overly difficult to manage. something i think might be a good idea is to make it so ghost pedestals dont despawn after you leave the room. it would give you an opportunity to come back and power up the form that didnt get to pick up an item if you didnt have the charges for it and it would help their stats too because that would be more opportunities for stat up items
if jacob and essau is you having to split everything between these two tainted laz is basically middle finger making you able to use 50% of your resources 100% of the time while you cant dump all good stuff on one side cus youd die easily in next room as other side
Another up-side not spoken of of the living version of Lazarus is his starting red hearts. Which gives me an idea for a complete rework of the character: When picking up the item the alternate version of Lazarus will receive the ghost secondary item offered by flip automatically on pick up. Lazarus will still automatically flip after clearing rooms but now will also flip upon taking (non player) damage, flip will act the same way but now with the added benefit of creating a new ghost item after use in room with said item. -Walk into item room -the regular item is the poop, the ghost item is C-section -use flip -the regular item is now C-section, the ghost item is now the intruder. -current form of Lazarus picks up C-section, alternate form gains the intruder. -Intruder Lazarus gets hit against the boss, C-section Lazarus automatically activates. -C-section Lazarus kills the boss, turns back into intruder Lazarus. Exchange stats as much as you want, make boss items generate ghost items, play with the charge however you like. I think this version of the character would be way more solid no matter what.
@@the7screw i mean i also somewhat like tainted eden. But they are just different characters. And i do also think T.Laz should be changed in some form or another.
@@the7screw I mean i don't really have all that much of an idea. I think giving living Laz the effect of Anemic would be a good idea, since it makes him different in a way that is not just stats, and fits very well for his lower range. I am also fine with the idea of more firerate as said in the video. And there are other things i would like such as dying making you flip. But then if you switch back, including clearing the room you would die within a second or so, unless you have something to stop it, or you could just use flip to get to the not dead one agian. (this was a very confusing explanation.) This system would also mean you can switch multiple times in a room, because you can flip once, and then die to flip back.
Remember playing T.Laz when it first came out. Gotta be one of the most miserable experiences of my life, a run would last 1 and a half hours and felt so underpowered. Now its a bit better, but still boring as hell imo
T. Laz (even pre-recent buff) is still > stinky T. Jacob especially in terms of fun. And to anyone who'd say "skill issue", you are the one who have skill issue if you struggle as T. Lazarus, I have no problem beating runs with him at all.
Tainted Lazarus is much more fun to play if you approach him as a challenge character that turns TBoI into a puzzle game rather than 'Jacob and Esau but you only have one per room'
The 4 charge flip is borderline insanity now
You can just manifest items outta thin air without having to worry about not having enough charges
You can flip the characters _for fun._ I didn't even know that was an option.
the flip rework with the ghost items honestly always confused me within the context of every other character. jacob and esau requires heavy management but you get 2 guys shooting at once, tainted lost dies rapidly but he's statwise the strongest and has the sacred orb passive. so when looking at the state of tainted lazarus, instead of giving him something to make him have merit over everyone else, they decided to give him less of a reduction in items. as if to say they have no intention of making him effective, just playable. blue baby still has this issue to some extent, but devil deals being cheap is at least something over isaac. It's like if their big fix for tainted jacob was to double esau's health so he still died almost instantly to spike rocks and glitched the mega satan fight, he just did it a little slower.
Honestly, I find the concept of "challenge" characters in Isaac to be severely antiquated, and I think Nicalis would probably agree.
The game is challenging enough, just give me characters with different tools to conquer the depths. Changing "challenge" characters to be glass cannons is the best way to go about this.
He doesn't have sacred orb passive
It's no defensive items
@@Chaos.in.silly.incarantion only offensive items, you mean
@@rattle_me_bones I meant no defensive items, I slipped up
Still that's not sacred orb
@@Chaos.in.silly.incarantion That is true!
i am one of the 4 last t laz players, thank you very much.
anyways, a flip buff idea is to keep its 6 room charge (or maybe even bring it down to 4, if edmund is generous enough) and just give flip one free use when entering a treasure room. that way, you are guaranteed to get both treasure room items, but you will still need enough charges for things like deal items, boss items (if that gets added), and for combat purposes. also, i think 3.2 tear rate is a little too much, i think 3.0 tears, 1.1 speed, and 1 luck is good enough stat boots, and it would be very thematic, because, as you said in the video about jacob and esau, one mans weakness is another mans strength. (dead t lazarus's weakness is lower tears, speed, and luck) now please stop dogshitting on my boy t laz i love him very much :(
Wait another T. Laz lover? Am I dreaming?
I don't know if you know this, but the thing that decides if an item has a ghost item is VERY simple. "was it generated on floor gen" or more practically "was the item there when you entered the room". This is the reason why fx. boss items cannot be flipped.
To make boss items be flipable you would have to make ALL items flipable or it's rules would not make sense.
@@nicklasbertelsen8717 I want ALL ITEMS to be flippable. Right now as is, the mechanic feels half baked and being a ghost item that disappears makes the minmaxing agonisingly tedious.
@@tanktheta I just flat out disagree. There are many better ways to buff t.laz that makes him more fun and unique. But you already don't have enough charges, and it would make it even harder to use flip for combat. And making it 4 charge or something would not make him better.
Likely just a difference in opinion but still.
This was a good video explaining Tainted Lazarus weaknesses, but there is a slight misinformation in the video. You can get more than 1 boss item with them, in fact you can get 3 which is more than the average character.
This is done with boss challenge rooms, its items are actually flippable and is something I would recommend even if its risky, though sometimes you can enter with not 1 hp by secret room, teleport or other methods. This is not the only advantage of challenge rooms, they also give charges for flip. Ignoring challenge rooms is one of the biggest mistakes I see people make with tainted Lazarus.
Though I still agree that flip should be 4 charges. I dont fully agree with flip being unusable in combat since by the time you reach cathedral you wont get many items, and the items in chest arent flipable anyway, so another tip is dont be discouraged from using flip after womb 2
Great video still
who would lower their health to 1 heart for 2 items when you have 2 kids to feed (i know about the secret room entrance being free but how often does that happen) lol
@@PixelOWRIts risky but if you dont do it you will be underpowred for the rest of the run, and you dont have to do it on every floor, doing it on basement 2, downpour 2 and caves 2 is already enough to have decent stats. The good side is that only one of them has to be at 1 heart
Funny you mention that, I had a section in the script about Boss Challenge Rooms that was cut for pacing reasons, but you are absolutely correct.
I have tried on a good few occasions to use them though I've never had much luck with them (though that's probably just me being bad).
as always, amazing video bro! 🔥🗿
super well edited, i didnt got distracted once during the entire thing
Ey thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it?
Your editing and voiceover is quality, love it!
Never played pre-rework T. Laz but for Dead God he wasn't THAT horrible.
I also never had to play pre-rework T. Lazarus and I am eternally grateful for that.
As someone that’s been playing since base Rebirth, I can confidently say that pre rework Tainted Laz is easily one of the worst characters in this game’s history. Up there with the pre-rework versions of Keeper and Tainted Jacob, and even No Mantle Lost.
WE GOT 4 CHARGE FLIP : )
We won
I thought this was a big isaac channel thanks to the quality of the editing, but how in the world as this only have around 700views?? This deserves so much better, keep up the great work, it's wonderfull! OvO
(And I can see that you kinda like fear and hunger)
yo my favorite isaactuber uploaded another banger, love your videos you're awesome!
Your Glowing Hourglass-esque idea for Flip sounds super interesting! I’d love to play with a mod like that!
4:05 these aren't exceptions, it's just that the hologram items work only if the item is already seen upon entering the room.
Tear rate buff also works well with his positive luck. It would be even better to give live laz the luck based items.
A) Flip
I don't know if you know this, but the thing that decides if an item has a ghost item is VERY simple. "was it generated on floor gen" or more practically "was the item there when you entered the room". This is the reason why fx. boss items cannot be flipped. So either of those way of stating it would have been a better way of explaining it.
This is also the reason i am very skeptical of allowing only the boss pedestal to now be flipable, because it is an exception to a rule without due justification, and makes Flip harder to actually understand the rules of.
I also think a better change to Flip, would just be saying "if it didn't actually flip an item, it recovers 2 (or 3) charges". Which would allow it greater use in combat without strengthening the utility.
I also think the 3 free uses of Flip is actually not that overpowered (if it kept the 6 charges afterwards like it should). My complaint against that idea is that it undermines the focus of T.Laz which in my mind is thinking ahead on when to clear rooms, and to manage active charges, along with the normal flipping more than you would on other characters. Even things like Apollyon is not near as intensive in the importance of balancing active charges.
B) Unbalance between characters
Also Dead lazarus is NOT a straight upgrade. -2 luck is horrible for many items, especially powerful items like holy light or parasitoid. He is still stronger overall, but not just straight up.
I do mostly agree with the tears up tho.
I would maybe also just give Alive Laz the blood trail at least after taking damage, mostly because it works well with his lower range (and higher knockback with the buff), but also because it helps with roomclearing which in most games will be his job and focus, because Dead Laz then get's all the boss fight items.
C) The characters PROS
Also, there are a few VERY important Pros you fail to mention.
1. You say you can clear a room if you want an item on the other lazarus, but don't mention that you can take an item, flip, clear a room, to get both items on the SAME character. Same goes for when there are enemies already in the room, like the little battery sucking flies in item rooms, or the devil thingies in devil rooms, and angel statues in angel rooms. Just take the item before clearing the room and then flip, clear, take again.
2. Additionally the ability to carry 2 consumables is incredibly valuable both for the utility of saving both for later, but more importantly for final bosses and the like. Being able to use things like a drowsy pill and temporary buff card in the same boost is an important upside.
3. Also active items for the exact same reason as pills obviously. But it is also important to note here that giving the weaker side a room clearing active to make up for not giving him stat ups is very important.
3. You can also just straight up have more HP for final bosses. With up to 16 hearts on both sides. And then you just flip when 1 get's low
That said all your character videos i have seen so far are incredibly good, with both good scripting and such, and incredible editing.
Edit: jesus this comment got way longer than it should have, so i have organized it a little better.
Very underrated comment. Just like T Lazarus.
I think the main reason, why people hate him, is that TL gameplay forces you to work with your brain, count charges and flips after clearing room (which makes greed more as him super-strategic). On the other hand you can rush through the floor, using flip without backtracking (T Samson enjoyers). Minding is suddenly unenjoyable for most.
Actually T Lazarus has great concept behind it. It makes you evolve two characters in one run (unlike with j and e when you can grab everything costable by one and just defending another's hitbox), giving each side the most relatable items. Here come different starting stats, range upgrade is necessary for the living form as well as luck-based items, when the dead form lucks of speed and tears (and health) which should be made in the first place. Also ghost-side itmes let you gain better builds than as other characters, and there's two of them! That being said, I can't understand Edmund when there wasn't ghost-items on the rep release.
Now with rep+ flip is 4 charges... Easier greed and nothing else, however ghost-form for boss item would fit there well, making tlaz even easier, while pre rep+ flip wouldn't let you take all the ghost items with the potential second boss item.
In conclusion T Laz is super strategically based character as he were developed, it actually is balanced well, but just unappreciated/black sheeped (and there's additionally much things devs thought on to make him work, wich we can rarely point on). It's just about community build of epilepsy-enjoyers (Gggfuel seed is fun af).
And there's few interesting synergies exclusively for T Laz. Mega Mush turns only one side into the giant, each flip to the other form saves duration of the effect which lets you easily hold one form always under mm effect; D...room restarter dice let you flip in the right moment, charge active of the other form, so it's better to use in the big rooms. Sorry for semi-well english!
@@ПростоГриша-г8л yeah exactly. I thing T.laz is super fun when i am in the right mindset. And it is the ONLY character that real makes me feel like i make a lot of mistakes. He is so complex and interesting to play. And the only thing he would ever really need is as i said a stat up or some other change to living laz.
The rep+ change really just made him less interesting and challenging to play. T.laz was on the extreme end of macro plays and managing charges and sides, and thinking forwards for how you clear things. The 4 charge kinda just removes a lot of that.
Ah, yes. Flip without thinking. The strongest strategy, as you can get everything.
Even though I think flip is more times than not less useful than other items like it that you can find...like the d6.
The ghost item just disappears because 'later game character gotta be harder' but just plays out as 'ok you cant get everything because the rooms weren't paced enough'.
Another banger from yours truly. Can't think of any other isaac youtuber that does this kind of content. Keep up the good work.
I honestly adore tainted lazarus. Hes a very strategic character. Anyway, people keep forgetting about one thing: He is a defensive character. While his weakness is that he has less items than the rest of the characters, his strength lies in his 2 health bars. While Jacob and Esau struggle with having to manage them at the same time, T. Laz has much easier time with it. Low on health while fighting delirium? When you get to 1 heart left just use flip. There is still an issue with actually trying to get that health, but honestly its not that big of a deal.
Saying he has less items is not even really all that true. Because you can stack by far most items on one side, and then only give the other side some room clear.
The fear and hunger edit and ost goes hard
I'm impressed at how small this channel is, this revew is amazing, well edited, and well structured as well, I loce the use of fear and hunger + isaac sprites used for the background footage and the ideas given for the rework are pretty good. You've gained yourself a fan!
Always nice to see someone enjoy the silly creations I make.
If I remember correctly from my Tainted Lazarus completion mark runs, I would generally let living Lazarus take all boss items and leave most other special items for dead Lazarus. That way, living Lazarus would have a better chance at survival, and whatever crazy item I get in the treasure room can bolster dead Lazarus' potential.
Now, if I were to change Flip in a way that isn't just "make it charge faster", I'd make it also chargeable through taking damage, as if it's under the Habit effect. The original Lazarus' gimmick seemed to be based around strategical deaths to take full advantage of dead Lazarus, so by making Flip recharge through damage, it would fit thematically with the gimmick of Lazarus, and emergency flips could take full advantage of this if a player is struggling in a room. (provided they have enough health to charge Flip and wouldn't mind potentially lowering their Devil/Angel room chances) I don't know how busted or reliable this change would be on Flip, and I'm not sure if it would actually make Tainted Lazarus feel any more unique, considering we already have a few characters who's gimmick is based around taking damage or sustaining low health. (both Samsons, both Eves)
wtf my boy lazarus doing in the festival of termina 😭
This video is top quality. If you keep the quality and do videos for something less niche you've got a big future at TH-cam.
Maybe the real tainted Lazarus was the Lazarus we risen along the way
This got a giggle out of me
I am relieved that this video confirmed that T Laz is just bad and that I wasn't using him wrong the whole time
He definitely gets more manageable with practice, but yeah overall he does kinda suck.
I do think he failed to mention several Pros, like double pills, actives, and how to stack items on 1 while the other only get's room clear items. But at the same time, you are indeed correct, in that he is both Bad, and unfun.
Ngl t laz is probably my favourite character
How broken would it be if unflippable items would be given to both of them when one form picks it up?
I really like how some videos come with the aninations, like this onr with cain and t.lazarus being homies
Fun fact:
When playing with T lazarus on downpour, you can see the reflection of his other form in the water
Amazing animation! Its was a fun video ^ ^
Tainted Lazarus, I love them, but I need the three charge flip mod to play him, still playing them over tainted Apollyon tho
It's undoubtedly been mentioned a number of time, but the rules of items that can be flipped are simply "What items were present when the room was generated?"
I think T Laz, while definitely not my favorite character, was always a pretty fun character where you actually had to consider how you split your strong, powerful items versus just stacking most of your damage dealing items onto one character like J&E. Plus, the extra health, active, and pickup are all pretty useful. Flip being changed to a 4 charge for T Laz specifically really helps his gameplay though, and really fixes how he feels to play in most cases! (besides greed mode...)
Finally a good quality long form video, been waiting for this one especially
Not to mention how awful he is in greed mode.
I love spending half my time completely defenceless because he switches every single wave!!!!!!
@@somegamingfan1277 not to mention you have to stop the waves to not waste flip charges.
T laz left so many red, green and (I think) blue herbs behind. He deserves to be sentenced to stand next to a yellow mage casting hurting for all of eternity for taunting us like so. PICK UP YOUR DAMN HERBS
( Bruh I made this comment before I saw ur concept lmao 😭 ) I feel like a good way to fix this would be to make flip cost 8 charges but have a x2 mark on it upon starting just like glowing hourglass, and every time the item is fully charged it grants another charge and continues charging, and being unable to gain charges if the player has stored x5 flip uses, and the reason some items cant be flipped is because the items that have ghost versions are items that are generated with the room itself, rather than being generated after doing a certain thing in the room ( opening chests, paying out arcade machines and beggars, defeating the boss etc. ) I am fine with this but it would be nice to see the boss room item be an exception to this rule. And while I do agree that Alive Laz is worse, this is made to make it easier for the player to balance them ( giving hp to Dead Laz while giving most other stat ups to Alive Laz ). I could see increasing Alive Lazarus’ tear rate from 2.73 to 3.20 or sth similiar tho. And another thing is that Flip’s new version only applies to Tainted Lazarus, rather than being a complete change for Flip
I somehow manage to get all unlocks before the ghost item buff. It was painful, but still more doable than T.lost and Tainted Jacob
dawg, this animations are fire 🔥
BoI players when they have to think basically describes the hate this character gets.
Easy fix, make T lazurus one shot everything in his base form and give him a range of 0.5. Duh. How has nobody thought of this?!
Im going to give my own batshit insane take on a fix;
1) Flip could have infinite use and still not break T.Laz, because the "getting extra items" part is merely making up for the fact that you need 2 characters worth of items.
The only downside to this is that you no longer make use of T.Laz's gimmick of having 2 characters, just sticking with whichever one has a better build.
So, what if Flip did not use a charge when being used to flip item pedestals? Or maybe picking up an item immediately triggers flip?
I’ve think I have found a hidden gem of a channel
TBH, I think the only changes you need are to make flip a 2 room cool down when used by them, and make every source of items flippable
Wooo baby he’s 1 of my faves once he gets going but yeahhh he’s got the worst earlygame of any character. Like there’s literally not even not enough rooms in basement 1/2 and maybe even caves two get your doubles items from treasure/shop/devil pools. I’ve personally played around with tweaking him two buff him and making flip on him a 4 room charge basically solves all the issues. And speaking of multiplayer, he’s amazing there because he essentially doubles the amount of items people get (also he gets half off devil deals)
ah..funger 2 music..i like
And the funger stuff in general
so crazy how good the quality of this video is. keep it up bro❤️
(ps. Plz make a tainted apollion and how his mechanic is genius)
I disagree heavily on T.Apollyon. I think his mechanic is way more boring than normal Apollyon. But that is just my opinion on the internet. And i would also like Tainted Apollyon video myself, because i think he is interesting as a subject.
Funnily enough, one of the video ideas I have planned is for T. Apollyon.
i think there's one more aspect of T-Lazarus, which makes him a little better character in some regard. You can flip on final bosses, which allows you to tank more hits, if you collected enough hp-ups or soul hearts. It's especially apparent in Greed mode, where you more likely to collect a lot of hp-ups from boss treasure room
The bigger reason why flipping on final bosses, than just more health, is having 2 combat active items and 2 consumables. There are already many Pills and cards that can almost trivialise final bosses. 2 of them makes them double as trivial
i hardly touched t lazarus before flip got reduced to 4 charges with the online update but i still feel like the mechanic is overly difficult to manage. something i think might be a good idea is to make it so ghost pedestals dont despawn after you leave the room. it would give you an opportunity to come back and power up the form that didnt get to pick up an item if you didnt have the charges for it and it would help their stats too because that would be more opportunities for stat up items
TBOI in Funger wasn't my expectation
if jacob and essau is you having to split everything between these two
tainted laz is basically middle finger making you able to use 50% of your resources 100% of the time while you cant dump all good stuff on one side cus youd die easily in next room as other side
These animations are really fucking good and entertaining, plus the info is fun to learn.
Really fun animations, like a fever dream induced game of fear n hunger of isaac
Truth is, playing tainted laz was rigged from the start
im not forgiving you for saying t. eden is not fun
LEEEEEET'SSS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOO
Another up-side not spoken of of the living version of Lazarus is his starting red hearts. Which gives me an idea for a complete rework of the character:
When picking up the item the alternate version of Lazarus will receive the ghost secondary item offered by flip automatically on pick up. Lazarus will still automatically flip after clearing rooms but now will also flip upon taking (non player) damage, flip will act the same way but now with the added benefit of creating a new ghost item after use in room with said item.
-Walk into item room
-the regular item is the poop, the ghost item is C-section
-use flip
-the regular item is now C-section, the ghost item is now the intruder.
-current form of Lazarus picks up C-section, alternate form gains the intruder.
-Intruder Lazarus gets hit against the boss, C-section Lazarus automatically activates.
-C-section Lazarus kills the boss, turns back into intruder Lazarus.
Exchange stats as much as you want, make boss items generate ghost items, play with the charge however you like.
I think this version of the character would be way more solid no matter what.
I HEAVILY disagree with the idea. Think he practically and conceptually works better now. But that is my opinion of cause
@@nicklasbertelsen8717 that's fair, I like tainted Eden and it shows.
@@the7screw i mean i also somewhat like tainted eden. But they are just different characters. And i do also think T.Laz should be changed in some form or another.
@@nicklasbertelsen8717 all right you picked my interest, how would you rework him?
@@the7screw I mean i don't really have all that much of an idea. I think giving living Laz the effect of Anemic would be a good idea, since it makes him different in a way that is not just stats, and fits very well for his lower range. I am also fine with the idea of more firerate as said in the video.
And there are other things i would like such as dying making you flip. But then if you switch back, including clearing the room you would die within a second or so, unless you have something to stop it, or you could just use flip to get to the not dead one agian. (this was a very confusing explanation.)
This system would also mean you can switch multiple times in a room, because you can flip once, and then die to flip back.
Remember playing T.Laz when it first came out. Gotta be one of the most miserable experiences of my life, a run would last 1 and a half hours and felt so underpowered. Now its a bit better, but still boring as hell imo
LMAOOOO TAINTED EDEN AND TAINTED LAZ ARE MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS AM I GOING INSANE 😭😭😭
Amazing editing
the character is only good with the birthright which is cracked
I see here some slavery reference
Good video 👍
I like fear and hunger
i THINK bro played fear and hunger 2
Nice I guess
YIPPE
T. Laz (even pre-recent buff) is still > stinky T. Jacob especially in terms of fun. And to anyone who'd say "skill issue", you are the one who have skill issue if you struggle as T. Lazarus, I have no problem beating runs with him at all.
10:20
Oh wow trans man anatomy