Cheers, I've worked for far more important and illustrious companies in my time.Rolls Royce and The European Space Agency being 2 examples before you come back, all back of the bus and shit.
To all those who think the Enterpise should do better here... Please be aware: The Shadows and Vorlons are millions of years old. Races shaped through constant wars. Their "technology" has become living organisms perfectly adapted to space and battle. As much as I love Star Trek and Enterprice myself... There's no way these children (comparitively speaking) would be any more than a little ant to step on for species als old as Shadows and Vorlons. And you can't just bring up "shields" that are used as defences in the Stark Trek Universe and say that this suddenly changes anything in the unfathomable gap in age and technology between those races. As if that suddenly seizes to matter because the Babylon 5 universe uses "armor" or "living matter" as defences. Those beams fired from Vorlons and Shadows may simply be so devastatingly powerful that "not getting hit" is literally the only defence there is. The only beings from Stark Trek that may see some light there could be the Q Continuum as they are - similar to the Vorlons - also some sort of ascended beings - that can basically bend the fabric of reality itself with a snap of a finger. They may be able to do something there. But certainly not the federation.
The Enterprise wouldn't just do better The Enterprise would spank the warlons in the shadows like they were little children millions of years old well we have bacteria millions of years old too what kind of starships do they have? You think millions of years old automatically means super advanced and they're not Considering a race slightly more advanced than very primitive humans and able to at least to fight even though they could never defeat the shadows meaning the membari gives you an idea of their relative tech levels The Enterprise would absolutely destroy both of Orlons and the shadows it wouldn't even be a contest now against that large fleet okay that might be able to put up a fight but the Enterprise would just warp out of there because the card isn't a warmonger and he's not dumb but one-on-one? Not even a contest.
@saberiandream316 no thats what sisko would say. Picard would be like. Please explain the reason you Don't want me to go to zahadum in writing and i may accept your suggestion.
Well, I'm assuming the Enterprise was just scanning the wrecked Shadow vessel trying to figure out what it was and was not at an alert status so its shields were down. Then, they didn't want to provoke the Vorlon vessel so they kept their shields down and were unable to raise them in time before the Vorlon vessel fired. So, that's why it was able to damage the ship so much and from what I've seen of Vorlon weapons I think the damage done isn't inaccurate. Particularly since the pre-dominion war Galaxy Class Starship had very poor armor. I think the video goes a bit off the rails when the Enterprise decides to chase the vorlons after likely losing hundreds of people to the blast, most likely having non-functioning forward phasers, and almost certainly suffering casualties with the bridge crew. Maybe that's why they did it. Picard, Riker, Worf, & Data all went down in the intial blast so fresh out of the academy Ensign Impulsive was left in charge and decides to chase the unknown vessel that just nearly destroyed it into the unknown with barely function shields and weapons systems. And if you've read this far, I understand the video is for fun and I completely respect what you have done here and it wasn't necessarily meant to be accurate. However, nitpicking is a long time legacy of science fiction and, honestly, it's where a lot of the fun of watching comes from. So, please, take this as fun criticism and don't take it too seriously.
I thought the same. I love the visuals, design, video and all of that. But nitpicking as you say, the enterprise wouldn't chase a vessel that just cut them like butter
I bet Kirk would have used the damaged shadow vessel to follow and self-destruct in the middle of the shadow fleet blowing them all up... Just as far fetched as enterprise following it lol
Starfleet Operations Regulation 69, Paragraph 2: “Upon the approach of any vessel or artificial construct, when communications have not been established, combat shields must be raised.” . . . under no circumstances does a starfleet commander (or any commander) approach a situation thinking to themselves "if I play nice, they will play nice " . . . also General Order Three: In the event of catastrophe, the commanding officer is authorized to order the destruction of the ship, to keep Federation technology from falling into the hands of a developing culture less advanced than the Federation.
In canon the Vorlon have been flying and fighting in space for millions of years. The first Vorlon ship was just a smaller transport and would easily dispatch the Galaxy class ship even with its shields up. The Enterprise survived because that was a warning shot. It later died because it made chase, not heeding the warning.
@@anndroid8734 Lorien! I really hoped to get more about him but it was nice to have that mystery. Interestingly he was the first to achieve sentience in our galaxy, makes you wonder what's lurking out there in the void.
The Enterprise would have shields up. The Vorlon beam weapon is not quite as strong as a Shadow beam, but it's still comparable to a Borg anti-proton beam. That still takes several shots to get through the Enterprise shield. But the vorlon beam would carve up an unshielded Enterprise much like the Borg did. And I question the idea that a Vorlon would fire first. It's far more likely that the Vorlon would psionically scan the people on board the Enterprise. It would determine their peaceful intent and then initiate contact. Something would have to go seriously wrong to get the two to fight.
I agree the vorlons only destroyed human ships that tried to venture to their homework. The shadows on the other hand would attack a human ship immediately.
Great video, but not sure why a Shadow vessel would just start attacking a predominantly human crewed ship that's clearly no threat to the Vorlon ship, Vorlons are terrifying powerful as one of the first races.
Neat, but people seem to forget that a single photon torpedo at full charge can destroy a continent and the Ent-D can fire 10 from each launcher simultaneously. They're anti-matter bombs. The Vorlons had to build a massive "death star" like ship to get the same effect. Sorry to say, but Trek ships have by far the most weapon power between Babylon 5, Trek, and Star Wars. Moreover, they have shields that can withstand that level of torpedo bombardment, so they also have the best defenses. THAT being said, I absolutely LOVE Babylon 5 and can't wait to see more of it.
In fact, I see calculations for turning the Earth into dust, which would essentially require the energy of 2.5 trillion tons of antimatter. And the cruiser Varlon does this without any torpedoes. Against the background of these civilizations, people are simply valued like ants, who are simply brushed aside and see no point in talking. It's stupid to even compare these universes; “Babylon 5” is science fiction; in scientific terms, it’s simply an ultimate series. there were very bold ideas for their time. It can only be compared with the series “The Expanse, 2015-2022”, and certainly not with “Startek”, where the script is written by some cardboard schoolboy.
an ordinary shadow ship can burn the surface of an entire planet if it shoots long enough or cut the planetoid into pieces... well, of course, someone will definitely come out with childish torpedoes and show off. Varlon's large ship causes the planet to disappear completely; in order to simply turn an entire planet into dust, you need several trillion tons of antimatter, and not some pathetic torpedo, this is physics. Read quality fiction. You’re not even comparing a person to an ant, the difference is much greater
@@dakchang63 It wasn’t shown much. Two examples that come to mind though are Sisco using two torpedos to poison an entire planet in minutes, and the orbital bombardment scene from Discovery season 1.
Is it wrong that I LOL'd? Honestly, what I thought was going to happen would be the Enterprise beams someone over and literally wakes the Shadow vessel up as it integrates whoever was unfortunate enough to be sent. _Then_ the Enterprise gets bifurcated.
@@thomassmith6232 Not necessarily. No matter how powerful, the most powerful are still probably vulnerable to something out there, even something seemingly insignificant.
Yup. Pretty much this. And I usually defend Star Trek Tech. If I were going to rank military tech by race, I’d put it in this order. V’ger. Tardis Vorlon Shadows Species 8472 Voth Ori Ancients Replicators Asgard Borg Star Trek Alpha/Delta Quadrant empires Mimbari Gua’uld (Anubis) Gua’uld System Lords Systems Commonwealth (Andromeda) Star Wars Galactic Empire The 12 colonies of Kobal (BattleStar) Centari Narn Earth Alliance (B5) The Expanse. I’m sure I’ve left out a lot, but I know little about Mass Effect or WarHammer 40k. If anyone wants to add to this I would welcome input
@@Ishlacorrin That's a valid point. But they lack transporter technology and energy shields. Transporter tech is an often undervalued technology That said, I could be persuaded to move them above the alpha/Beta quadrant empires. Edit: also the ability to fight a normal space opponent while traveling faster than light on warp would make it very difficult for the Minbari to engage them.
@@Ishlacorrin Hmm. I don't agree that they aren't explained. Indeed, transporter tech has been described in detail and is also integral to replicator tech. But, I do admit Minbari weapons tech is superior. I can accept the idea that Minbari is superior in many ways. In fact, is give all the B5 empires as having one of the most practical FTL systems.
Vorlon beam weapons simply ignoring Trek shields sounds about right, the Vorlon had shields, found ways round them, then abandoned them millions of years ago
On this I agree. The Vorlons and Shadows use biological tech armor. This system is far and away more advance than shields. Their weapon systems, judging by what we see on screen, are far more powerful than any phaser or disrupted. Species 8472 uses the same level of tech and they easily stomped the Borg. The Shadows and Vorlons are on that level
Trek fans have no idea of the magnitude of B5 ancient's weaponry. They have Worf creaming his pants over mega joules and terra watts....oh dear. Ignorance is bliss. Also visitors see one video and assume I hate ST, when they know absolutely fuck all about me. That's the modern world for you, all reactionary 'an shit.
Vorlons didn't abandon shields - you can see a Vorlon dreadnought using one when a Shadow battlecrab fired at it (episode 15, season 3). Also the Shinindrea have shielding on all their vessels and it's far from ineffective .
More likely the Enterprise shields lasted 1/1000th of a second against the Vorlon weaponry and then were disabled. Pretty sure the Vorlons are dealing with power levels orders of magnitude above anything a Galaxy-Class Starship could field.
Much as I enjoy these really well produced videos by Special Katana, he really does have a serious dislike of non-B5 Sci-Fi ships/series. B5 is my favourite Sci-Fi TV series (and films) but the tech from other series is never effective in these videos (well not that SW has much in the way of tech, except hyperdrives: yes I know this video was a ST ship).
Enjoyed more sci fi than you could shake a stick at, from the 70's onwards. I simply give Trek the same respect it's own creators have. Check out the season 2 trailer for Picard to see how fucking bad sci fi can be today. John de Lancie may save it , but I doubt it. Picard season 3? Nope it'll be over by then (hopefully). It's devoid of anything 'Trek' and is simply woke razzle dazzle for fuckwits.
@@SpacialKatana best description of Picard I have seen... The only good nu-trek is lower decks. Btw great little vid. Also to the person earlier that said the d could not fly with that much damage, it has a battle bridge and secondary computer core in the star drive, ever with the main bridge and main computer destroyed she can still fight, too bad for the enterprise that vorlons have faster reaction time.
I've not seen a bunch of his vids but when it comes to Vorlon or Shadow ships I cannot argue with the results here. Look at how outclassed even the Borg were by Species 8472. This is an even worse mismatch
@@SpacialKatana vorlon ships could easily outclass the starship enterprise , the enterprise is not geared for war its shields last up to a point , could a earth alliance omega destroyer take on the enterprise also the isa excalibur has some powerful weapons some classes of b5 ships have fighter wings which star trek ships do not have , like you specialkatana i have seen a lot of scifi i grew up in the 1980s scifi these days is woke nonsense thanks for saying what you think about picard also star trek discovery is a mess, star wars was messed up in the new trilogy that does not exist to me and many fans i have not watched much new scifi i find that i go back to past scifi me and my dad were fans of gery andersons shows like ufo, terrahawks, even scifi cartoon shows in the 80s were great other scifi i liked were stargate atlantis and sg1, space above and beyond that deserved to have another season, farscape i liked that too . babylon 5 remains to me one of my top scifi great characters stories atmosphere great ships oh and the soundtrack by christopher franke of tangerine dream his music added that dimension and atmosphere to the show , i have most of christopher frankes b5 sound track cds that were released , i will leave it at that but i must say i love your work nicely done
Always had an issue with this view of B5 vs Star Trek "discussion" since the former doesn't generally have shields where the latter does. There's also never been indication that Vorlons have transporter tech, so that should put an Enterprise D on par with one of their ships at the very least. All that said, can't ship, once that badly damaged, chasing after the ship that did.
I have no issue seeing The USA in Space getting annihilated by 1,000,000 year old advanced species. Consider the 1% difference between us & chimps. Now picture us as the chimps & the Vorlons/Shadows as us. Except such species would no longer be bound to the laws of natural selection. They would surpass this & be a law unto themselves. As for the ridiculous gadgets (& technological escape clauses). Star Trek ignores for the most part science. Bab5 did the reverse. Best wishes
@@respectfulanarchist427 Only there's no real indication that B5 elder races are overly advanced than an "average" Trek race. Vorlon/Shadow ships were taken out by nukes and have issues in the upper layers of gas giants where the Enterprise D can park on a sun for a bit.
@@johncee853 Thanx John but it was me mocking the concept which I call America in Space. In fact it could be Useless Stupid Ship. What I love about Spacial Katana is the detail of fine thinking. The Enterprise has to do a three point turn like a car. Hardly B5 or the Expanse huh?
Shields (plot armour) are always made just strong enough for the hero ship to survive. Case in point, the stupid episode that was mentioned above which had the Enterprise test metaphasic shields. This is why the short I just made was called 'Cry Me a River'. I really don't care. The writing in Star Trek was generally alright, but there were a lot of filler episodes that are just quite frankly, garbage. If you want to see Starfleet 'win' I'd suggest another channel... Bear in mind I'm a CG artist, not a director, screenwriter etc ;-)
Why would that Vorlon vessel attack and even worse, why would very badly damaged Enterprise follow that ship into unknown alternate dimension of hyperspace ?
This is an easy victory, all they have to do is send lwaxana troi to deal with the shadow vessel, the shadow vessel will escape at maximum velocity in the opposite direction as soon as they see her coming😂
Video itself was awesome technologically,logically-not so much. The Enterprise would have had it's shields up and would NOT have followed an alien into a spatial phenomenon half disabled. Awesome graphics.
Yeah well the producer of the video fails each time to account in the speed of trek ships which never need a a jump gate, transporter technology, which b5 does not have, and tge asdumption the b5 universe has more powerful weapons, again never proven.
@@michellekotts2312 This speed exists when the warp drive is turned on, but here the flight is normal. Against a ship that is actually incredibly maneuverable. If you saw the fight in the series itself, he can also launch a swarm of small fighters into battle that even a shadow ship cannot hit. hyperspace is nonlinear and distances in it are not predictable, so there is little point in comparing these methods of movement. But in the series, in fact, the Varlons threw themselves out of the galaxies, and the nearest one (for a minute) is millions of light years away. If you rely on the Star Trek Encyclopedia, then the most daring speed there is, according to which warp 9.9 is equal to 3053 speeds of light. those. You won't succeed in flying halfway across the galaxy in your entire life. And this is nothing, against the backdrop of intergalactic distances. It’s amazing that this ungodly stupid series was invented at a time when it was already possible to read Hanlein, from whom Dune stole most of his ideas.
This doesn't make sense to me. The smaller Vorlan ship couldn't destroy that Shadow ship by itself. They are on par with each other. The shields for the Enterprise should work. There is no reason they wouldn't. I could see them doing damage but they are not just cutting without any problems. Also the Vorlons wouldn't just attack an unknown ship like that. Even a Shadow vessel would try to find out more about them. They are both motivated by manipulating younger species so they don't just kill first.
In fact, such a small Vorlon ship (transport/cruiser) did destroy a Shadow battlecrab in Bab5 episode: 'Interludes and Examinations'. That Shadow vessel wasn't only crippled like this one, but completely torn apart with a single volley. To be honest, I was really astonished that the Vorlon transport didn't destroy the Enterprise at the beginning. Maybe that little Vorlon ship was in an 'energy-saving mode' when it encountered its enemies.😆
Was good but that was some major damage the enterprise took. It would not have followed the vorlon ship. surprised it could even move after that or even function.
Why the "HATE" for the Enterprise, the vessel was totally destroyed, at least a couple of photon torpedos from the Enterprise, and I seen no active shields surrounding the ship would have been cool to show !!
I loved TNG, but Enterprise-D---------WAAAAAAY outclassed against either Vorlons or the Shadows. I think the Borg would have a hard time against either of those two.
@@SpacialKatana I don't think most Trekkers have a concept of Vorlons & Shadows. There's nothing like them in the Star Trek universe. Beings millions upon millions of years old, near godlike levels of technology...there's nothing like either in Star Trek. Star Trek might have dabbled with the idea in a couple episodes but quickly realized they were out of their depth and went back to pew pew fun with Klingons and Romulans.
I'm gonna call bs on this video for a few reasons - 1)in the initial encounter investigating the dead shadow vessel, the enterprise would at the very least be at yellow alert with the shields up. 2)upon seeing the vorlon vessel, the enterprise would go to red alert with all other tactical systems ready for a fight. 3)how did the enterprise enter hyperspace to chase the vorlon vessel. 4)the federation is not one of the B5 younger races, it's far more technologically advanced, especially in the area of defensive technologies.
it funny how these vids all forget that star trek vesssels has some thing that did not exist in the b abylon 5 universe. deflector shields. so an acctack from that first vorlon ship would not inflict that kind of damage. it would take several shots the first few just too get the shields to collapse. and depending on the year type of refit the galaxy class ship had it could have had ablative armor as well. another thing these videos forget is weaponry in star trek is anti-matter based which is far more potent and powerful than the weopons in the b5 universe altho it was never said what volon's weapons were based on. but other races like were base on plasma using helium or kinetic weaopons. than also in b5 universe in order for the ship too travel in hyperspace they had too have seperate hyperdrive engines for hyperspace propulsion. it high doubtful a galaxy class ship could tfollow the vorlon ship that way.
I believe the Vorlon Beam were referred to as "Quantum discharge Cannon" but many people just just referred to them as "shadow death ray" or "Vorlon death ray".
@@Ishlacorrin antimatter being obsolete is where your wrong! Weapons in Star Trek unlike other s I fi shows are based on actual science fact. And in star trek and real life science if you have a a warhead with enough anti matter in it it would easily destroy a planet or star with a single warhead. And as much as I love B5 and it’s story. One thing that always bugged me about the vorlons was if they evolved beyond their bodies why would they even need ships. They would be more like the Q from star trek and just screw with everyone and basically do whatever they want.
@@mhobin12 Because Vorlons had become static through dogma. Lorien did not need a ship and there is no evidence the Shadows ever travelled on their ships either. Either way they were using technology with millions of years of development compared to hundreds of years so it's safe to assume they would be more advanced than Trek tech. If you want to compare a comparable tech between the 2 then compare Treks ablative armour which is to burn off to take the energy from the primary armour with first one tech where energy is absorbed and radiated into space by the entire hull of the ship.
Deflector shields? Or Deflectors AND shields, Star Trek canon seems confused on them. Deflectors were supposed to protect from hitting particles at warp and shields were supposed to stop energy and physical weapons. The show confuses them often, especially in TOS when "deflectors" stop a disruptor bombardment from a planet using computers to simulate war games.
The vorlon or the Shadows attacking the Federation Klingons or even the Dominion will be probably easy for them. Think of the aliens from third space that's billions of years older😮😮😮😮😮
First, that is a great damage, delivering large amounts of energy. They would notice power build up and raise shields. Lets say they crew was careless, the hit cut through the hull and exposed at least more than 20 decks to space. Galaxy class is not a warship, it would be crippled, to say at least. But lets say damage was not severe, somehow. They wouldn't chase. They would be occupied with damage control and rescue operations. But lets say they were idiots. If they chase, they would raise shields. And they would unlikely to go down in one shot in that case. But there wouldn't be a fight anyway, they would run as soon as they see the other fleet. They are Starfleet, they are not suicidal like Klingons. But if you say they were ISS enterprise, that might be a little more believable.
The power of startrek shields and weapons have increased over a few hundred years? Imagine the power of the weapons from a species that has been in space for millions of years. The shields were probably up and were drained in a fraction of a second.
Would the Federation shields be that ineffective? And if the Enterprise got a shot off and B5 has no shields wouldn't the results be the same for the Federation?
We're comparing apples to oranges. In my mind's eye I see the crew of the Enterprise watching with dismay as their combined force of Klingon and Federation vessels are destroyed by Vorlons (or Shadows). Captain Picard: Data, what kind of weapons are they using? Mr. Data: Unknown Captain. Sensors are unable to identify. The beams do not fit anywhere in the known electromagnetic-gravitic spectrum.
Yeah, a race a million years older, and think about Species 8472 in Voyager. Blasted everything in their path, including Borg combat cubes lol Species 8472 also used Bio Tech like the Ancient races in Babylon 5.
Not in my opinion. In the B5 universe, the Vorlon and Shadow beam weapons were pretty close to each other. The Vorlon possibly being a little less powerful. But we saw how the Shadow beam weapon carved up anything that was unshielded. So let's use that as a standard. We also saw how the Borg anti-proton beam carved up unshield ships. The two are very comparable. So let's put the Vorlon, the Shadow, and the Borg beam weapons close to parity. The Borg beams perhaps having a slight edge. The Borg still needed to fire several shots to get through the Enterprise's shield. And later, the Borg created a whole new weapon just to shred their shields. And even that took 4 shots to destroy their shields. So in my estimation, whether it be Borg, Shadow, or Vorlon, all their beam weapons should need 4 to 6 shots to destroy Federation shields. But once those shields are down, Federation ships are just freshly baked turkeys ready to be carved up. Similarly, Vorlon and Shadow ships showed remarkable durability. Probably not quite as good as a Borg ship, but quite comparable. Phasers and disrupters are likely to be as ineffective against a Vorlon or Shadow vessel as they were against the Borg. Photon torpedoes, according to the ST wiki, have a yield of 64.44 megatons of TNT. Sheridan, at the battle of Coriana VI, used nukes with a yield of 500 megatons to "get their attention". It was three of these bombs that Sheridan detonated on the capital of Z'Ha'Dum. We didn't get to see any Vorlon or Shadow vessels destroyed, and these were proximity blasts - not direct hits. But we know that it "pissed them off" (both Vorlons and Shadows). So we don't have a really decisive comparison, but a photon torpedo is only 13% the yield of what it took to really piss them off. So for the sake of argument, I'm willing to say a direct hit by a photon torpedo would also "piss them off". Even if it cannot destroy one of their ships in one shot. I imagine 3 direct hits might do some damage.
@@Ishlacorrin They never said that anywhere in the show, though. And supplementary material is subject to be overwritten by whatever the prime canon dictates - look at the old Star Wars EU to see what I mean. I actually haven't watched the movie in a while. For now, I'll concede unless I see something that contradicts it in my upcoming rewatch.
@@saberiandream316In the episode where a small Vorlon fleet engaged the Shadows directly, you can see a Shadow Battlecrab shoot at the Vorlon Dreadnought and you can clearly see there is an energy field that completely repels the beam weapon.
@@SpacialKatana - You invited this with your simulation. As long as continuities remain separate, this form of chauvinism will never occur. No one is insisting on that, but if you do it, and stack the deck, it becomes immediately apparent.
@@rustyshackelford3934Not at all. I suggest you go back and watch some Babylon 5 space battles. They are far more intense than Star Trek space battles, especially season 4. Star Trek ships would get carved up, especially by the older races.
@@chrisdewfall7920 I'm looking forward to it, it will be interesting and as long as the actors are good I really don'y care about the innevitable changes.
Ah wouldn't be that easy. Star Fleet's tech is a LOT higher than Human tech in bab 5 and arguably higher than the Menbari . Trek has Shields , artificial Grav , teleportation, anti-matter and quantum torpedoes , And phasers ( a form of practical beam weapon ) But the baggiest advantage would be real space FTL maneuvering / sensor systems / and weapons made to operate at the kind of ranges real space ftl impales.
The Vorlons are so old, so many civilasations have risen and died out in their time that they would simply overwhelm the startrek ships. I know trek fans think their shields stop everything but you need to think about how the newer startrek ships can blitz the older shields and then add millions of years advancements to understand just how powerful the vorlons would be.
I think one might say that was not the smartest strategy to deploy following a small galactic war ship into the wormhole. Only to be met by a mega fleet that was not interested in who you were and where you are from, let alone what are you doing there. You're different, destroy...instantly. Any last message to Starfleet? Patrolling the galaxy is a tough business.
In the first 10 seconds I counted on a Federation vessel vs Shadow skirmish, because I didn't take into account the dead spider appearence. Shame on me!
@@ravenmoon5111 I believe ZPM Powered Ancient Warship shields are equally powerful. However yes- Vorlons would win cause basically they are ascended beings without ascended Alteran non interfering rules on lower beings. Maybe if Vorlons attacked Ori galaxy directly they would be a perfect match with Ori.
@@TheKingTywinLannister I would not dispute that. Both the Ori and Vorlons were incredibly impressive. The Ori shields were incredibly tough and Vorlons weapons were utterly devastating. It would be a heck of a fight.
@@TheKingTywinLannister Actually... the Vorlons are just semi-energy beings - not yet Ascended, albeit they were advancing towards that. Prime example of not being Ascended beings is that a common neurotoxin delivered by a Minbari could kill the Vorlon Ambassador (Babylon 5 In the Beginning) and that the doctor who treated Kosh could actually see a biology there and treat in consequence. An ascended being just doesn't die to so common things, it would need another ascended killing it or energy nullifiers which extended on the dimension the Ascended are - another thing Vorlons and Shadows lack, a special dimension to ascend. Plus an ascended being could alter reality on a much higher scale than the Vorlons or Shadows could.
I think that this was fairly accurate. Vorlon or Shadow, either one would have made short work of any Trek vessel, as well as any SW vessel. Mimbari vs. Trek might be a toss up, since Mimbari ships have a lot of Vorlon tech in them, with weapons almost as powerful. That being said, I think that the shields of Trek might give them the edge vs. Mimbari. But Vorlon or Shadow would wipe their butts with Trek tech, if they had butts.
@Dan Schaller ok so we know in the Earth/Minbari war that tactical nukes were very effective against Mimbari ships, these were small tactical nukes (2 megaton) planted on asteroids, the 1st nuke vapourised a sizeable chunk of the blackstar and the 2nd detonation finished it off, these weren't detonated point blank but at some range, A single photon torpedo which uses the annihalation of 1.5kg of matter and anti matter has a destructive yield of 64 megaton, they fly at a substantial % of C (depenedant on the velocity of the firing ship) so have a good amount of kinetic energy also. They are very accurate and have a range of 750.000 km a single torpedo would absolutely annihiate a Mimbari cruiser starfleet shields can tank multiple torpedo hits without failing. Yes I am more a Star Trek than a B5 fan (I do love B5 though) but Starfleet ships are faster at sublight have sensors that are FTL (so can detect B5 ships before the ships can detect them) have shields, transporters (transport a live torpedo on an opposing B5 ship) phasers are extremely effective against solid hulls (they can core km's into a planet in no time at all) b5 ships are faster because of Hyperspace
@@TheMingilator Vorlon ships are actually living creatures with skin that adapts to any weapon used against it, so when the phaser mssing anything important, like the one Vorlon pilot and the second phaser blast bounches off and the Vorlon ships blasts down the ST ships shields very quickly and the battle is over. Oh even if you hit the Vorlon you not being an ancient only annoy them by killing the body which is just a shell for the Vorlon who is an energy being who billions of years old. You have to be a Shadow or another Vorlon to actually kill one.
The Nixed Generation, destroyed by one of the First Ones. Nice! The only thing that could have been better would be to have the bridge crew blathering about analysis readings when a Shadow slicer beam killed them all.
EA fleet pre-Shadow war, or Post-Shadow War? Cuz I'll lean Jem'Hadar against the slow-but-powerful EA ships... but once you get past the Shadow War, and the White Star fleet is integrated in, all bets are off. I'll lean EA at that point because the White Stars outclass every equal sized vessel. They're basically pocket battleships with the speed of a fighter, which is insane.
I do them when I can be bothered and have time to set them up, I don't get paid for my YT work ;) In this case they'd be useless anyway, but that's an argument I won't entertain.
BS! On so many levels. First, WTF is a Vorlon doing so near a shadow vessel? Second, No race in the B5 universe has energy shields, so completely unlikely that the Vorlon weapons would bypass shields, and no way the Enterprise's shields are not up for that first shot. As has been a major plat point since the second Startrek movie, it is against regulations to approach another starship when communications have not been established with shields down. Third. even if we grant that the Vorlon weapon is that effective against an unshielded target, the Enterprise would not give pursuit if that damaged. Further, the Enterprise would likely not give pursuit through hyperspace... a phenomenon unknown to them. So... No. Just No. I have no problem with the idea that the Vorlons would be more than a match for Enterprise, but it would certainly not go down like this.
it is always a strange discussion when discussing superlatives of different settings. the shields of the enterprise are said to deflect beam and particle weapons and the vorlons use discharge weapons that are said to destroy other ships easily. so, on the one hand the enterprise is protected (at least initially in the first scene) by its shields and destroyed as easily as depicte in the last scene... so, the outcome of such crossover facing offs is determined by the circumstance to which side the maker gives the last word, which the maker is fan of.... so, yeah, nice animation, but contentwise.. *Shrug* okay, if you want it to be that way... fine with me..
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [2/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qJbQs_nhjD4/mqdefault.jpg)
Some one not get hired by Paramount?
Cheers, I've worked for far more important and illustrious companies in my time.Rolls Royce and The European Space Agency being 2 examples before you come back, all back of the bus and shit.
@@SpacialKatana Back of the "bus" at the european space agency? what do you mean by bus,the rocket? 🤩
The Enterprise did not start chasing the vessel to return the attack, but to exchange insurance details with it for the caused damage on Enterprise-D
To all those who think the Enterpise should do better here... Please be aware: The Shadows and Vorlons are millions of years old. Races shaped through constant wars. Their "technology" has become living organisms perfectly adapted to space and battle. As much as I love Star Trek and Enterprice myself... There's no way these children (comparitively speaking) would be any more than a little ant to step on for species als old as Shadows and Vorlons. And you can't just bring up "shields" that are used as defences in the Stark Trek Universe and say that this suddenly changes anything in the unfathomable gap in age and technology between those races. As if that suddenly seizes to matter because the Babylon 5 universe uses "armor" or "living matter" as defences. Those beams fired from Vorlons and Shadows may simply be so devastatingly powerful that "not getting hit" is literally the only defence there is.
The only beings from Stark Trek that may see some light there could be the Q Continuum as they are - similar to the Vorlons - also some sort of ascended beings - that can basically bend the fabric of reality itself with a snap of a finger. They may be able to do something there. But certainly not the federation.
Well said.
The UFP can literally Nova Stars. And that is canon
The Enterprise wouldn't just do better The Enterprise would spank the warlons in the shadows like they were little children millions of years old well we have bacteria millions of years old too what kind of starships do they have? You think millions of years old automatically means super advanced and they're not
Considering a race slightly more advanced than very primitive humans and able to at least to fight even though they could never defeat the shadows meaning the membari gives you an idea of their relative tech levels
The Enterprise would absolutely destroy both of Orlons and the shadows it wouldn't even be a contest now against that large fleet okay that might be able to put up a fight but the Enterprise would just warp out of there because the card isn't a warmonger and he's not dumb but one-on-one? Not even a contest.
@@SpacialKatana Sorry to correct, but the Vorlons are billions of years old
But they lose to ships of a lower tech than trek.
"Captain Picard....You must NOT go to Z'ha'dum"
"Up yours!"
@@saberiandream316 BBBBUUUGGGSSS!
@saberiandream316
no thats what sisko would say.
Picard would be like. Please explain the reason you Don't want me to go to zahadum in writing and i may accept your suggestion.
@@robkemp598 too late!!!
Well, I'm assuming the Enterprise was just scanning the wrecked Shadow vessel trying to figure out what it was and was not at an alert status so its shields were down. Then, they didn't want to provoke the Vorlon vessel so they kept their shields down and were unable to raise them in time before the Vorlon vessel fired. So, that's why it was able to damage the ship so much and from what I've seen of Vorlon weapons I think the damage done isn't inaccurate. Particularly since the pre-dominion war Galaxy Class Starship had very poor armor.
I think the video goes a bit off the rails when the Enterprise decides to chase the vorlons after likely losing hundreds of people to the blast, most likely having non-functioning forward phasers, and almost certainly suffering casualties with the bridge crew. Maybe that's why they did it. Picard, Riker, Worf, & Data all went down in the intial blast so fresh out of the academy Ensign Impulsive was left in charge and decides to chase the unknown vessel that just nearly destroyed it into the unknown with barely function shields and weapons systems.
And if you've read this far, I understand the video is for fun and I completely respect what you have done here and it wasn't necessarily meant to be accurate. However, nitpicking is a long time legacy of science fiction and, honestly, it's where a lot of the fun of watching comes from. So, please, take this as fun criticism and don't take it too seriously.
I thought the same. I love the visuals, design, video and all of that. But nitpicking as you say, the enterprise wouldn't chase a vessel that just cut them like butter
I bet Kirk would have used the damaged shadow vessel to follow and self-destruct in the middle of the shadow fleet blowing them all up... Just as far fetched as enterprise following it lol
Starfleet Operations Regulation 69, Paragraph 2: “Upon the approach of any vessel or artificial construct, when communications have not been established, combat shields must be raised.” . . . under no circumstances does a starfleet commander (or any commander) approach a situation thinking to themselves "if I play nice, they will play nice "
. . . also General Order Three: In the event of catastrophe, the commanding officer is authorized to order the destruction of the ship, to keep Federation technology from falling into the hands of a developing culture less advanced than the Federation.
In canon the Vorlon have been flying and fighting in space for millions of years. The first Vorlon ship was just a smaller transport and would easily dispatch the Galaxy class ship even with its shields up. The Enterprise survived because that was a warning shot. It later died because it made chase, not heeding the warning.
The Borg slice right through shields, yes?
Imagine adding a few million years of tech upgrades and you get the Vorlons weapons.
Enterprise always meats strange ship with shields down and never shoots back after being attacked.
Star Trek literally meets a cutting edge technology!
Borg cutting beam is so last century, but this... this is the real deal!
no, Volron and Shadow is young race. there is older race (The First One) which has the most advance technology
@@anndroid8734 Lorien! I really hoped to get more about him but it was nice to have that mystery. Interestingly he was the first to achieve sentience in our galaxy, makes you wonder what's lurking out there in the void.
The Enterprise would have shields up. The Vorlon beam weapon is not quite as strong as a Shadow beam, but it's still comparable to a Borg anti-proton beam. That still takes several shots to get through the Enterprise shield. But the vorlon beam would carve up an unshielded Enterprise much like the Borg did.
And I question the idea that a Vorlon would fire first. It's far more likely that the Vorlon would psionically scan the people on board the Enterprise. It would determine their peaceful intent and then initiate contact. Something would have to go seriously wrong to get the two to fight.
I agree the vorlons only destroyed human ships that tried to venture to their homework. The shadows on the other hand would attack a human ship immediately.
Great video, but not sure why a Shadow vessel would just start attacking a predominantly human crewed ship that's clearly no threat to the Vorlon ship, Vorlons are terrifying powerful as one of the first races.
Your video making skills are greater than your writing skills but viewed just as a bit of fun, it's great.
Why thank you, I'm not a screenwriter after all.
Neat, but people seem to forget that a single photon torpedo at full charge can destroy a continent and the Ent-D can fire 10 from each launcher simultaneously. They're anti-matter bombs. The Vorlons had to build a massive "death star" like ship to get the same effect. Sorry to say, but Trek ships have by far the most weapon power between Babylon 5, Trek, and Star Wars. Moreover, they have shields that can withstand that level of torpedo bombardment, so they also have the best defenses. THAT being said, I absolutely LOVE Babylon 5 and can't wait to see more of it.
In fact, I see calculations for turning the Earth into dust, which would essentially require the energy of 2.5 trillion tons of antimatter. And the cruiser Varlon does this without any torpedoes. Against the background of these civilizations, people are simply valued like ants, who are simply brushed aside and see no point in talking. It's stupid to even compare these universes; “Babylon 5” is science fiction; in scientific terms, it’s simply an ultimate series. there were very bold ideas for their time. It can only be compared with the series “The Expanse, 2015-2022”, and certainly not with “Startek”, where the script is written by some cardboard schoolboy.
an ordinary shadow ship can burn the surface of an entire planet if it shoots long enough or cut the planetoid into pieces... well, of course, someone will definitely come out with childish torpedoes and show off. Varlon's large ship causes the planet to disappear completely; in order to simply turn an entire planet into dust, you need several trillion tons of antimatter, and not some pathetic torpedo, this is physics. Read quality fiction. You’re not even comparing a person to an ant, the difference is much greater
@@Revenant_Knight never had photon torps like that in Starfleet battles sign me up
..!
@@dakchang63 It wasn’t shown much. Two examples that come to mind though are Sisco using two torpedos to poison an entire planet in minutes, and the orbital bombardment scene from Discovery season 1.
@@Revenant_Knight TOS remastered shows the Original Enterprise glass a planet by itself.
Mr. Worf... Set the shields to a rotating modulat --- goddammit
The Enterprise would never have given chase, after taking a hit like that.
Should've fled while they had the chance. That was quite the warning shot.
Great video, I was expecting the Shadow ship to somehow heal itself by absorbing star ship's energy.
NCC1701 D interrupted dinner time...
Ngl I too was expecting it to just reform and attack the ship.
@@doktahv8837Yeah, those Shadows are sneaky bastards like that. Perfect setup for an ambush.
Is it wrong that I LOL'd?
Honestly, what I thought was going to happen would be the Enterprise beams someone over and literally wakes the Shadow vessel up as it integrates whoever was unfortunate enough to be sent. _Then_ the Enterprise gets bifurcated.
"Is it wrong that I LOL'd?"
Nah, I'll let you off this time 😁
And then either Frieza from Dragon Ball or Unicron from Transformers stomps the Vorlons. There's always a bigger fish.
Cosmic Armor Superman and Madoka Kaname say hi.
Not necessarily. No matter how many links, eventually you're going to reach the top of the food chain.
@@thomassmith6232 Not necessarily. No matter how powerful, the most powerful are still probably vulnerable to something out there, even something seemingly insignificant.
@@iconian1387 Like in V :)
@@Jan-ss9tm I've heard of V--it was a movie and later a series right?
Great animation
Now do Enterprise E vs Dalek Saucer
Yup. Pretty much this. And I usually defend Star Trek Tech.
If I were going to rank military tech by race, I’d put it in this order.
V’ger.
Tardis
Vorlon
Shadows
Species 8472
Voth
Ori
Ancients
Replicators
Asgard
Borg
Star Trek Alpha/Delta Quadrant empires
Mimbari
Gua’uld (Anubis)
Gua’uld System Lords
Systems Commonwealth (Andromeda)
Star Wars Galactic Empire
The 12 colonies of Kobal (BattleStar)
Centari
Narn
Earth Alliance (B5)
The Expanse.
I’m sure I’ve left out a lot, but I know little about Mass Effect or WarHammer 40k. If anyone wants to add to this I would welcome input
@@Ishlacorrin
That's a valid point. But they lack transporter technology and energy shields. Transporter tech is an often undervalued technology
That said, I could be persuaded to move them above the alpha/Beta quadrant empires.
Edit: also the ability to fight a normal space opponent while traveling faster than light on warp would make it very difficult for the Minbari to engage them.
@@Ishlacorrin
Hmm. I don't agree that they aren't explained. Indeed, transporter tech has been described in detail and is also integral to replicator tech.
But, I do admit Minbari weapons tech is superior. I can accept the idea that Minbari is superior in many ways. In fact, is give all the B5 empires as having one of the most practical FTL systems.
You missed Lorien's race from the first position.
Vorlon beam weapons simply ignoring Trek shields sounds about right, the Vorlon had shields, found ways round them, then abandoned them millions of years ago
On this I agree. The Vorlons and Shadows use biological tech armor. This system is far and away more advance than shields. Their weapon systems, judging by what we see on screen, are far more powerful than any phaser or disrupted.
Species 8472 uses the same level of tech and they easily stomped the Borg. The Shadows and Vorlons are on that level
Trek fans have no idea of the magnitude of B5 ancient's weaponry. They have Worf creaming his pants over mega joules and terra watts....oh dear. Ignorance is bliss.
Also visitors see one video and assume I hate ST, when they know absolutely fuck all about me. That's the modern world for you, all reactionary 'an shit.
Vorlons didn't abandon shields - you can see a Vorlon dreadnought using one when a Shadow battlecrab fired at it (episode 15, season 3).
Also the Shinindrea have shielding on all their vessels and it's far from ineffective .
More likely the Enterprise shields lasted 1/1000th of a second against the Vorlon weaponry and then were disabled. Pretty sure the Vorlons are dealing with power levels orders of magnitude above anything a Galaxy-Class Starship could field.
Much as I enjoy these really well produced videos by Special Katana, he really does have a serious dislike of non-B5 Sci-Fi ships/series. B5 is my favourite Sci-Fi TV series (and films) but the tech from other series is never effective in these videos (well not that SW has much in the way of tech, except hyperdrives: yes I know this video was a ST ship).
Enjoyed more sci fi than you could shake a stick at, from the 70's onwards. I simply give Trek the same respect it's own creators have. Check out the season 2 trailer for Picard to see how fucking bad sci fi can be today. John de Lancie may save it , but I doubt it. Picard season 3? Nope it'll be over by then (hopefully). It's devoid of anything 'Trek' and is simply woke razzle dazzle for fuckwits.
@@SpacialKatana best description of Picard I have seen... The only good nu-trek is lower decks. Btw great little vid. Also to the person earlier that said the d could not fly with that much damage, it has a battle bridge and secondary computer core in the star drive, ever with the main bridge and main computer destroyed she can still fight, too bad for the enterprise that vorlons have faster reaction time.
I've not seen a bunch of his vids but when it comes to Vorlon or Shadow ships I cannot argue with the results here. Look at how outclassed even the Borg were by Species 8472. This is an even worse mismatch
@@SpacialKatana Preach it to the choir, brother...
@@SpacialKatana vorlon ships could easily outclass the starship enterprise , the enterprise is not geared for war its shields last up to a point , could a earth alliance omega destroyer take on the enterprise also the isa excalibur has some powerful weapons some classes of b5 ships have fighter wings which star trek ships do not have , like you specialkatana i have seen a lot of scifi i grew up in the 1980s scifi these days is woke nonsense thanks for saying what you think about picard also star trek discovery is a mess, star wars was messed up in the new trilogy that does not exist to me and many fans i have not watched much new scifi i find that i go back to past scifi me and my dad were fans of gery andersons shows like ufo, terrahawks, even scifi cartoon shows in the 80s were great other scifi i liked were stargate atlantis and sg1, space above and beyond that deserved to have another season, farscape i liked that too . babylon 5 remains to me one of my top scifi great characters stories atmosphere great ships oh and the soundtrack by christopher franke of tangerine dream his music added that dimension and atmosphere to the show , i have most of christopher frankes b5 sound track cds that were released , i will leave it at that but i must say i love your work nicely done
Always had an issue with this view of B5 vs Star Trek "discussion" since the former doesn't generally have shields where the latter does. There's also never been indication that Vorlons have transporter tech, so that should put an Enterprise D on par with one of their ships at the very least.
All that said, can't ship, once that badly damaged, chasing after the ship that did.
I have no issue seeing The USA in Space getting annihilated by 1,000,000 year old advanced species. Consider the 1% difference between us & chimps. Now picture us as the chimps & the Vorlons/Shadows as us. Except such species would no longer be bound to the laws of natural selection. They would surpass this & be a law unto themselves. As for the ridiculous gadgets (& technological escape clauses). Star Trek ignores for the most part science. Bab5 did the reverse. Best wishes
@@respectfulanarchist427 Only there's no real indication that B5 elder races are overly advanced than an "average" Trek race. Vorlon/Shadow ships were taken out by nukes and have issues in the upper layers of gas giants where the Enterprise D can park on a sun for a bit.
@@Bobby90 Excellent point Bobby & thanx.
@@johncee853 Thanx John but it was me mocking the concept which I call America in Space. In fact it could be Useless Stupid Ship. What I love about Spacial Katana is the detail of fine thinking. The Enterprise has to do a three point turn like a car. Hardly B5 or the Expanse huh?
Shields (plot armour) are always made just strong enough for the hero ship to survive. Case in point, the stupid episode that was mentioned above which had the Enterprise test metaphasic shields. This is why the short I just made was called 'Cry Me a River'. I really don't care. The writing in Star Trek was generally alright, but there were a lot of filler episodes that are just quite frankly, garbage. If you want to see Starfleet 'win' I'd suggest another channel...
Bear in mind I'm a CG artist, not a director, screenwriter etc ;-)
Why would that Vorlon vessel attack and even worse, why would very badly damaged Enterprise follow that ship into unknown alternate dimension of hyperspace ?
So I could rip it a new one? Blender's free if you want to do it t'other way round. Go crazy, the world's your oyster.
The Enterprise should really start using drones for those short-range scans while laying back with the ship and watching.
Why didn't the Enterprise D put it up Shield against the Shadows Ship
This is an easy victory, all they have to do is send lwaxana troi to deal with the shadow vessel, the shadow vessel will escape at maximum velocity in the opposite direction as soon as they see her coming😂
That took longer than expected . lol Always impressive .
Video itself was awesome technologically,logically-not so much. The Enterprise would have had it's shields up and would NOT have followed an alien into a spatial phenomenon half disabled. Awesome graphics.
Wouldn't do anything against that ship.
Yeah well the producer of the video fails each time to account in the speed of trek ships which never need a a jump gate, transporter technology, which b5 does not have, and tge asdumption the b5 universe has more powerful weapons, again never proven.
@@michellekotts2312 This speed exists when the warp drive is turned on, but here the flight is normal. Against a ship that is actually incredibly maneuverable. If you saw the fight in the series itself, he can also launch a swarm of small fighters into battle that even a shadow ship cannot hit.
hyperspace is nonlinear and distances in it are not predictable, so there is little point in comparing these methods of movement. But in the series, in fact, the Varlons threw themselves out of the galaxies, and the nearest one (for a minute) is millions of light years away.
If you rely on the Star Trek Encyclopedia, then the most daring speed there is, according to which warp 9.9 is equal to 3053 speeds of light. those. You won't succeed in flying halfway across the galaxy in your entire life. And this is nothing, against the backdrop of intergalactic distances.
It’s amazing that this ungodly stupid series was invented at a time when it was already possible to read Hanlein, from whom Dune stole most of his ideas.
Are you CHASING the ship that just carved halfway through your ship's saucer section?
Doubt the enterprise would survive a shadow vessel
Shields???
This looks like some of the special effects I've seen on Babylon 5 , this is great action scene
This doesn't make sense to me. The smaller Vorlan ship couldn't destroy that Shadow ship by itself. They are on par with each other.
The shields for the Enterprise should work. There is no reason they wouldn't. I could see them doing damage but they are not just cutting without any problems.
Also the Vorlons wouldn't just attack an unknown ship like that. Even a Shadow vessel would try to find out more about them. They are both motivated by manipulating younger species so they don't just kill first.
In fact, such a small Vorlon ship (transport/cruiser) did destroy a Shadow battlecrab in Bab5 episode: 'Interludes and Examinations'. That Shadow vessel wasn't only crippled like this one, but completely torn apart with a single volley. To be honest, I was really astonished that the Vorlon transport didn't destroy the Enterprise at the beginning.
Maybe that little Vorlon ship was in an 'energy-saving mode' when it encountered its enemies.😆
Ricker: 'They're carving us up like a roast.'
Pichard: 'Do you always have to say that Number One?'
Got to be a certain age, but those later ships look very much like the Liberator
I watched it as a youngling, and made a model of it :- th-cam.com/video/xYphkLJhJ2A/w-d-xo.html
Video was great, BUT you failed to show the shield impacts. You shown them in other videos.
Don't think it would be that easy.
And NOW these Ancients , are aware of Starfleet . Well Played .
Shields up. Arm Photon torpedoes. All hands abandon ship.
To boldly go where no man shouldn't
Was good but that was some major damage the enterprise took. It would not have followed the vorlon ship. surprised it could even move after that or even function.
Why the "HATE" for the Enterprise, the vessel was totally destroyed, at least a couple of photon torpedos from the Enterprise, and I seen no active shields surrounding the ship would have been cool to show !!
I don't hate it lol....you'll like this video I made of it, with shields, in its correct universe :) th-cam.com/video/tnPCjaD80dQ/w-d-xo.html
Federation shields got blown out by one shot…..
Meh....
You're trying to tell me the Entrprs could follow but not get off one photon torpedo or any phasers?
"To boldly go, where no one has return from before!"
Not sure how the enterprise was still flying with its primary computer core being slag lol..
Ya kna, Geordie..Data..
I'd pay to see species 8472 vs. the shadows!
I have both the ships ;-)
Thank you yet again **Spacial**, I've waited years to see exactly that. Excellent work as always 👍🎉👏
Haha thankies
Great video...👍
"Hail them!"'
'"I can't, i've got arachnaphobia!" ^_^
Well, THAT escalated quickly…
I loved TNG, but Enterprise-D---------WAAAAAAY outclassed against either Vorlons or the Shadows. I think the Borg would have a hard time against either of those two.
Same here, but for some reason everyone thinks I hated it...they've no idea.
@@SpacialKatana
I don't think most Trekkers have a concept of Vorlons & Shadows. There's nothing like them in the Star Trek universe.
Beings millions upon millions of years old, near godlike levels of technology...there's nothing like either in Star Trek.
Star Trek might have dabbled with the idea in a couple episodes but quickly realized they were out of their depth and went back to pew pew fun with Klingons and Romulans.
Ñeed to make a full length movie!!
I'm gonna call bs on this video for a few reasons -
1)in the initial encounter investigating the dead shadow vessel, the enterprise would at the very least be at yellow alert with the shields up.
2)upon seeing the vorlon vessel, the enterprise would go to red alert with all other tactical systems ready for a fight.
3)how did the enterprise enter hyperspace to chase the vorlon vessel.
4)the federation is not one of the B5 younger races, it's far more technologically advanced, especially in the area of defensive technologies.
Yes, yes it is a young race...unless the canon has changed and Humans from trek are now millions if not billions of years old, lol.
it funny how these vids all forget that star trek vesssels has some thing that did not exist in the b abylon 5 universe. deflector shields. so an acctack from that first vorlon ship would not inflict that kind of damage. it would take several shots the first few just too get the shields to collapse. and depending on the year type of refit the galaxy class ship had it could have had ablative armor as well. another thing these videos forget is weaponry in star trek is anti-matter based which is far more potent and powerful than the weopons in the b5 universe altho it was never said what volon's weapons were based on. but other races like were base on plasma using helium or kinetic weaopons. than also in b5 universe in order for the ship too travel in hyperspace they had too have seperate hyperdrive engines for hyperspace propulsion. it high doubtful a galaxy class ship could tfollow the vorlon ship that way.
I believe the Vorlon Beam were referred to as "Quantum discharge Cannon" but many people just just referred to them as "shadow death ray" or "Vorlon death ray".
@@Ishlacorrin antimatter being obsolete is where your wrong! Weapons in Star Trek unlike other s I fi shows are based on actual science fact. And in star trek and real life science if you have a a warhead with enough anti matter in it it would easily destroy a planet or star with a single warhead. And as much as I love B5 and it’s story. One thing that always bugged me about the vorlons was if they evolved beyond their bodies why would they even need ships. They would be more like the Q from star trek and just screw with everyone and basically do whatever they want.
@@mhobin12
Vorlons evolved into a non-corporal form. They were not extradimensional beings like the Q.
@@mhobin12
Because Vorlons had become static through dogma. Lorien did not need a ship and there is no evidence the Shadows ever travelled on their ships either. Either way they were using technology with millions of years of development compared to hundreds of years so it's safe to assume they would be more advanced than Trek tech. If you want to compare a comparable tech between the 2 then compare Treks ablative armour which is to burn off to take the energy from the primary armour with first one tech where energy is absorbed and radiated into space by the entire hull of the ship.
Deflector shields? Or Deflectors AND shields, Star Trek canon seems confused on them. Deflectors were supposed to protect from hitting particles at warp and shields were supposed to stop energy and physical weapons. The show confuses them often, especially in TOS when "deflectors" stop a disruptor bombardment from a planet using computers to simulate war games.
Once again the Federation's policy of letting the other ship shoot first, ends in disaster.
The vorlon or the Shadows attacking the Federation Klingons or even the Dominion will be probably easy for them. Think of the aliens from third space that's billions of years older😮😮😮😮😮
So much for shields! I guess Picard forgot he had them! Lol No bias by the author here! Lol but still fun to watch.
Shields? what use would a roman shield be against a nuclear bomb?
But the Shadow would not get that near as the phasers on the Enterprise fire for thousands of miles
It bugs me that some new irresistible force comes along badder than the Borg, etc.
Imagine how Ali felt when he got beat.....
@@SpacialKatana I watched those fights. It's inevitable to appose someone tuffer than you. But not by that much!
What happened to their shields?
First, that is a great damage, delivering large amounts of energy. They would notice power build up and raise shields. Lets say they crew was careless, the hit cut through the hull and exposed at least more than 20 decks to space. Galaxy class is not a warship, it would be crippled, to say at least. But lets say damage was not severe, somehow. They wouldn't chase. They would be occupied with damage control and rescue operations. But lets say they were idiots. If they chase, they would raise shields. And they would unlikely to go down in one shot in that case. But there wouldn't be a fight anyway, they would run as soon as they see the other fleet. They are Starfleet, they are not suicidal like Klingons. But if you say they were ISS enterprise, that might be a little more believable.
Well, it was a shuttle class that cut can open...then it meet shuttle's big brothers...
Cool video, but I still put the enterprise D or E up against a shadow vessel.
Why do the star trek ships never seem to have shield when they're in these situations?
The power of startrek shields and weapons have increased over a few hundred years? Imagine the power of the weapons from a species that has been in space for millions of years. The shields were probably up and were drained in a fraction of a second.
Star Trek shields tend to be just a form of ablative armour that gets slowly whittled away by enemy fire.Don't mess with the Vorlons.
Totally rag dolled a Galaxy class. Sad but it's true.
Would the Federation shields be that ineffective?
And if the Enterprise got a shot off and B5 has no shields wouldn't the results be the same for the Federation?
We're comparing apples to oranges. In my mind's eye I see the crew of the Enterprise watching with dismay as their combined force of Klingon and Federation vessels are destroyed by Vorlons (or Shadows).
Captain Picard: Data, what kind of weapons are they using?
Mr. Data: Unknown Captain. Sensors are unable to identify. The beams do not fit anywhere in the known electromagnetic-gravitic spectrum.
Yeah, a race a million years older, and think about Species 8472 in Voyager. Blasted everything in their path, including Borg combat cubes lol Species 8472 also used Bio Tech like the Ancient races in Babylon 5.
Not in my opinion. In the B5 universe, the Vorlon and Shadow beam weapons were pretty close to each other. The Vorlon possibly being a little less powerful. But we saw how the Shadow beam weapon carved up anything that was unshielded. So let's use that as a standard.
We also saw how the Borg anti-proton beam carved up unshield ships. The two are very comparable.
So let's put the Vorlon, the Shadow, and the Borg beam weapons close to parity. The Borg beams perhaps having a slight edge. The Borg still needed to fire several shots to get through the Enterprise's shield. And later, the Borg created a whole new weapon just to shred their shields. And even that took 4 shots to destroy their shields.
So in my estimation, whether it be Borg, Shadow, or Vorlon, all their beam weapons should need 4 to 6 shots to destroy Federation shields. But once those shields are down, Federation ships are just freshly baked turkeys ready to be carved up.
Similarly, Vorlon and Shadow ships showed remarkable durability. Probably not quite as good as a Borg ship, but quite comparable. Phasers and disrupters are likely to be as ineffective against a Vorlon or Shadow vessel as they were against the Borg.
Photon torpedoes, according to the ST wiki, have a yield of 64.44 megatons of TNT. Sheridan, at the battle of Coriana VI, used nukes with a yield of 500 megatons to "get their attention". It was three of these bombs that Sheridan detonated on the capital of Z'Ha'Dum. We didn't get to see any Vorlon or Shadow vessels destroyed, and these were proximity blasts - not direct hits. But we know that it "pissed them off" (both Vorlons and Shadows).
So we don't have a really decisive comparison, but a photon torpedo is only 13% the yield of what it took to really piss them off. So for the sake of argument, I'm willing to say a direct hit by a photon torpedo would also "piss them off". Even if it cannot destroy one of their ships in one shot. I imagine 3 direct hits might do some damage.
@@jdlech maybe time for Star Fleet to break out the spinal phaser lances and the transphasic and quantum torpedoes.
I would have love to see the Enterprise teleporting a torpedo Inside of one of those ships, that could be cool.
@@Ishlacorrin You have no evidence. Though tbf, transporters have routinely failed on Star Trek due to "interference," so it IS possible.
@@Ishlacorrin But wait, where did they EVER say the Vorlons have shields? I thought only the Thirdspace aliens had shields. O_O
@@Ishlacorrin They never said that anywhere in the show, though. And supplementary material is subject to be overwritten by whatever the prime canon dictates - look at the old Star Wars EU to see what I mean.
I actually haven't watched the movie in a while. For now, I'll concede unless I see something that contradicts it in my upcoming rewatch.
@@saberiandream316In the episode where a small Vorlon fleet engaged the Shadows directly, you can see a Shadow Battlecrab shoot at the Vorlon Dreadnought and you can clearly see there is an energy field that completely repels the beam weapon.
Thank you someone as logical as Mr. SPOCK trek u has transporter tech something b5 never had
There are far more dangerous things than a Galaxy class starship in the Star Trek universe
There are far more dangerous things than a Vorlon Transport in the Babylon 5 universe
Just so you know ;-)
@@SpacialKatana - Star Trek universe ships and entities peak higher than B5. Much higher.
Just so you know. ;-)
@@rustyshackelford3934 Now you're just chewing bricks m8. I ain't playin.
@@SpacialKatana - You invited this with your simulation. As long as continuities remain separate, this form of chauvinism will never occur. No one is insisting on that, but if you do it, and stack the deck, it becomes immediately apparent.
@@rustyshackelford3934Not at all. I suggest you go back and watch some Babylon 5 space battles. They are far more intense than Star Trek space battles, especially season 4. Star Trek ships would get carved up, especially by the older races.
If they ever bring back B5, somebody needs to give you a call … fantastic work!
there is a reboot in the works, being written by jms again
@@chrisdewfall7920 I'm looking forward to it, it will be interesting and as long as the actors are good I really don'y care about the innevitable changes.
@@burstcity3832 exactly !
Ah wouldn't be that easy. Star Fleet's tech is a LOT higher than Human tech in bab 5 and arguably higher than the Menbari . Trek has Shields , artificial Grav , teleportation, anti-matter and quantum torpedoes , And phasers ( a form of practical beam weapon ) But the baggiest advantage would be real space FTL maneuvering / sensor systems / and weapons made to operate at the kind of ranges real space ftl impales.
The Vorlons are so old, so many civilasations have risen and died out in their time that they would simply overwhelm the startrek ships.
I know trek fans think their shields stop everything but you need to think about how the newer startrek ships can blitz the older shields and then add millions of years advancements to understand just how powerful the vorlons would be.
Coolant leak!!!
I think one might say that was not the smartest strategy to deploy following a small galactic war ship into the wormhole. Only to be met by a mega fleet that was not interested in who you were and where you are from, let alone what are you doing there. You're different, destroy...instantly.
Any last message to Starfleet? Patrolling the galaxy is a tough business.
I do agreed the enterprise would loose but it wouldn't chase that ship down before being repaired and finding out more facts about the unknown
In the first 10 seconds I counted on a Federation vessel vs Shadow skirmish, because I didn't take into account the dead spider appearence. Shame on me!
Yeah spidey's all busted up and the Vorlons were hungry for more 😆
@@SpacialKatana 😄
Amazing shortfilm. Very enjoyable. One of your best in my opinion
What about Vorlon vs Ancient aurora class (Stargate Atlantis)
I’d like to see the Vorlons vs the Ori. I feel the Vorlons would win, but the Ori had the best shields of any shield using ships I’ve seen in Sci-fi.
@@ravenmoon5111 I believe ZPM Powered Ancient Warship shields are equally powerful. However yes- Vorlons would win cause basically they are ascended beings without ascended Alteran non interfering rules on lower beings. Maybe if Vorlons attacked Ori galaxy directly they would be a perfect match with Ori.
@@TheKingTywinLannister
I would not dispute that. Both the Ori and Vorlons were incredibly impressive. The Ori shields were incredibly tough and Vorlons weapons were utterly devastating. It would be a heck of a fight.
@@TheKingTywinLannister Actually... the Vorlons are just semi-energy beings - not yet Ascended, albeit they were advancing towards that. Prime example of not being Ascended beings is that a common neurotoxin delivered by a Minbari could kill the Vorlon Ambassador (Babylon 5 In the Beginning) and that the doctor who treated Kosh could actually see a biology there and treat in consequence. An ascended being just doesn't die to so common things, it would need another ascended killing it or energy nullifiers which extended on the dimension the Ascended are - another thing Vorlons and Shadows lack, a special dimension to ascend. Plus an ascended being could alter reality on a much higher scale than the Vorlons or Shadows could.
Riker: “Some days you get the bear and some days the bear gets you …”
🤣🤣🤣
No Fed captain would pursue after taking that much damage. Must be a Mirror Universe Empire ship.
I think that this was fairly accurate. Vorlon or Shadow, either one would have made short work of any Trek vessel, as well as any SW vessel. Mimbari vs. Trek might be a toss up, since Mimbari ships have a lot of Vorlon tech in them, with weapons almost as powerful. That being said, I think that the shields of Trek might give them the edge vs. Mimbari. But Vorlon or Shadow would wipe their butts with Trek tech, if they had butts.
@Dan Schaller ok so we know in the Earth/Minbari war that tactical nukes were very effective against Mimbari ships, these were small tactical nukes (2 megaton) planted on asteroids, the 1st nuke vapourised a sizeable chunk of the blackstar and the 2nd detonation finished it off, these weren't detonated point blank but at some range, A single photon torpedo which uses the annihalation of 1.5kg of matter and anti matter has a destructive yield of 64 megaton, they fly at a substantial % of C (depenedant on the velocity of the firing ship) so have a good amount of kinetic energy also. They are very accurate and have a range of 750.000 km a single torpedo would absolutely annihiate a Mimbari cruiser starfleet shields can tank multiple torpedo hits without failing. Yes I am more a Star Trek than a B5 fan (I do love B5 though) but Starfleet ships are faster at sublight have sensors that are FTL (so can detect B5 ships before the ships can detect them) have shields, transporters (transport a live torpedo on an opposing B5 ship) phasers are extremely effective against solid hulls (they can core km's into a planet in no time at all) b5 ships are faster because of Hyperspace
@@TheMingilator Vorlon ships are actually living creatures with skin that adapts to any weapon used against it, so when the phaser mssing anything important, like the one Vorlon pilot and the second phaser blast bounches off and the Vorlon ships blasts down the ST ships shields very quickly and the battle is over. Oh even if you hit the Vorlon you not being an ancient only annoy them by killing the body which is just a shell for the Vorlon who is an energy being who billions of years old. You have to be a Shadow or another Vorlon to actually kill one.
The bridge is gone and so is ten forward!!
Nice video!
I already want to see the reboot vorlon ship designs.
The Nixed Generation, destroyed by one of the First Ones. Nice! The only thing that could have been better would be to have the bridge crew blathering about analysis readings when a Shadow slicer beam killed them all.
Hail them Mr Wor...
What happened to the enterprises shields?
Overloaded in 1 picosecond.
Pre Dominion War Galaxy class would be pretty easy pickings
Post Dominion War. Vorlons would have a short but decent fight on their tentacles
That was a short but decent fight.
well that was disturbing. What were the vorlons doing in a dead shadow vessel anyway
YES. Just what were the Vorlons doing there in the first place??!!??
Very nice, a little bit more drama in the scenes.... Not always about being taken out by the Shadows
Only reason I made this was because of a new model, the Vorlon Transport.
i'd love to see a jem'hadar fleet from star trek attack an earth alliance fleet from Babylon 5
EA fleet pre-Shadow war, or Post-Shadow War? Cuz I'll lean Jem'Hadar against the slow-but-powerful EA ships... but once you get past the Shadow War, and the White Star fleet is integrated in, all bets are off. I'll lean EA at that point because the White Stars outclass every equal sized vessel. They're basically pocket battleships with the speed of a fighter, which is insane.
Enterprise is WAY out of it's league.
Why no shields??
I do them when I can be bothered and have time to set them up, I don't get paid for my YT work ;)
In this case they'd be useless anyway, but that's an argument I won't entertain.
The enterprise would be at yellow alert shield rise doubtful that ship could do that much damage to her
I giggled waay too much at this.
The Shadows didn't ask "What do you want‽"
LOL. So true. Being an ancient race that is million years ahead of us, Enterprise won't stand a chance.
it gos even futher both shadows and vorlons are at least Forerunner Tier judging from the EU
The enterprise has Sheila's and photon torpedoes
@@michelecastellotti9172 the enterprise has phasers and Sheilds and photon torpedos
@@Ishlacorrin most of the younger races haven't mastered anti gravity
@@Ishlacorrin yet the younger races can use nukes to destroy vorlon vessels, something a starfleet runabout would laugh at
Picard: Really, Troi? Didn't you crash the Enterprise twice already?
Worf: Third time is the charm.
Would like to see the advanced omega class ships - with the shadow tech on them.
Go watch the series, or use a search engine. You'll be amazed at the wizardry of this new fangled interweb.
Someone took B 5 and Star Trek and had some fun, knock yourself out applause
That black ship looks like a shadow vessel from Babylon 5.
You're correct.
would like to see hirogens and or species 8472 tangle with this ship
Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning did it first.
Yep and aside from the CGI it was shite 😄
@SpacialKatana Can't expect much from a fan made film with a $14 000 budget created in the early days of the web. Still a fun watch though.
LOL that was great..
BS! On so many levels. First, WTF is a Vorlon doing so near a shadow vessel? Second, No race in the B5 universe has energy shields, so completely unlikely that the Vorlon weapons would bypass shields, and no way the Enterprise's shields are not up for that first shot. As has been a major plat point since the second Startrek movie, it is against regulations to approach another starship when communications have not been established with shields down. Third. even if we grant that the Vorlon weapon is that effective against an unshielded target, the Enterprise would not give pursuit if that damaged. Further, the Enterprise would likely not give pursuit through hyperspace... a phenomenon unknown to them. So... No. Just No. I have no problem with the idea that the Vorlons would be more than a match for Enterprise, but it would certainly not go down like this.
it is always a strange discussion when discussing superlatives of different settings. the shields of the enterprise are said to deflect beam and particle weapons and the vorlons use discharge weapons that are said to destroy other ships easily. so, on the one hand the enterprise is protected (at least initially in the first scene) by its shields and destroyed as easily as depicte in the last scene... so, the outcome of such crossover facing offs is determined by the circumstance to which side the maker gives the last word, which the maker is fan of.... so, yeah, nice animation, but contentwise.. *Shrug* okay, if you want it to be that way... fine with me..
Geez you would thought not to mess with a Vorlon the first time!