I do a lot of portrait photography and eye autofocus was a novelty turned necessity. Ever since switching to Sony I hardly ever miss a shot and with the a7iv improved AF system it’s like cheating. Great comparison 👍🏼
LOL, Tomato, Potato, Patricko, Tomassito. Good review, or better. good talk about your experience with video machines. I realize and despite having an S5, having had a G80, a G9 and an XT-4, my favorite machine is a BMPCC6K PRO... which, in addition to incredible color science, doesn't have much else...
Switched to fx3 from the s5. Im already missing shutter angle, ibis, screen brightness and simplicity of menu. But hot damn the af on the fx3 is smooth af. Walking backwards shooting and having the focus locked tight on the eyes of the subject was something I didnt know I needed.
I bought an S5 the week after the S5 Mark2 was announced. The body + 20-60mm + 50mm + 85mm for £1600 new. The deal was great and now have the confidence in investing in L mount because of the S5 Mark2.
A lot of great points here, as someone who is primarily behind the camera ive never relied on autofocus on any camera because I do like video shots being messup up by it in critical points and not having full control over shallow depth shots. I still prefer the S1 over the S5 because of the screen and additional internal codecs, but i rarely find missed focus in photos because of focus peaking helping me nail manual pulls on the fly as well.
Really like your honesty in discussing the pros and cons of each camera. I purchased a G85 a few years ago and based my decision on multiple factors but IBIS was a key factor for sure. Also, you mentioned you had a G85 and it "absolutely slapped"! That made me laugh. Thanks again for the video.
Had a similar experience last year when I switched from the Lumix S1 to the Canon R6. I needed a camera that I could trust in all scenarios and sadly the S1 really is a camera you have to work with to get good results rather than a camera that works with you. Great video and good points all around!
Really balanced argument for both. I can totally appreciate your requirements and decision to buy the a7iv. Keep up the great work but do keep the s5 footage coming too. You’re too good with it not to show the world your skills!
Honestly I've been following your page because I'm a lumix s5 shooter but I think you brought up some great points of to the sony vs lumix debate. Great video as always!
If only Panasonic would put tracking Phase Detection AF in their cameras they would instantly rise to the top for camera choices and probably be way more popular. They have most of the other pieces of the puzzle. They just need the AF piece and they are golden.
On 22 Feb the GH6 will be released.. let's see how the auto-focus will be on that one, and from there we can tell how the future in Lumix cameras look.
What I don't understand about Panasonic is that they'd figured out everything else five years ago. The GH5 from 2017 is still a competitive camera today in every way except for continuous autofocus. Panasonic was so far ahead of everyone else in 2016-17. Their cameras had unlimited 4K, deep buffers, really fast operation, great UI, amazing build, etc. All they needed was to make one body with PDAF. If they didn't want banding from PDAF pixels on their GH bodies, they could have given us PDAF on the less cinema-oriented G or GX series, and most of us would have bought one of those and been happy, and we probably would have followed Panasonic to FF, too. I don't know what Panasonic has been working on for the last five years because there had one job, to solve autofocus, and they still haven't done it it.
As a Panasonic user I really hope they at least implement an autofocus technology that I can see them improving on, even if it’s a work in progress. Just for some piece of mind when it comes to me investing in their lenses/ecosystem and their future lol.
I am exactly like you, I switched from the S5 to the A7IV! xD I got the S5 on a heavy discount, which caused me unnecessary pain to make the decision of switching to the Sony. But it was all worth it. When using the Sony, you feel immersed in the creating process, because it just works.
Excellent video 🎉❤. It feels like AF has become a baseline expectation that cannot be walked back on for many of us. And woah the TV raining scene totally made this video vibes love it
This was really interesting. I've got a Gh5 and hoping for a little better low-light performance. The auto-focus doesn't usually worry me -- I just set it to manual and shoot.
I will still choose the Lumix S5. Sure, poor AF performance as compared to the Sony A74 but for what I do, (weddings, corporate, fashion) the Lumix S5 is more than enough and its $1,000 less, maybe cheaper. I got 2 Lumix S5 as my A and B cam and they both perform really well!
Thanks for this! I’ve always been curious about Panasonic since they do some really awesome stuff and I know next to nothing about it. New intro is awesome, I’ll honor it by playing this on a tv strapped to a wheeled cart.
This was great a watch! Great seeing someone be sensible about both cameras and their use cases! I went for the S5 and it's been great for my video business, the Sony autofocus does look amazing though! Keep up the great work!
S5 has been great for me so far, the only time at work it has failed me was when I had to redo a shot 10 times to get a nice focus pull shot from foreground to background. But that’s 1 in like 300shots I’ve taken.
@@impatrickt The thing is though. When im doing a focus pull, I wouldnt be doing that with any cameras autofocus. Focus pulls will always be better done manually as you can control the speed with much better accuracy and be reacting tow hats happening in front of you. Its when you have the S5 on a gimbal without a wireless follow focus or when youre filming yourself where it can become an issue.
Hi Patrick. I'm here from your suggestion comment on your other channel. I didn't know about this channel, but I knew the other one. So I subscribed here as well. This was something I really needed to watch to make an informative purchase. Thank you so much for creating this comparison video.
Well-balanced assessment. When the LUMIX is on sale, though, there's a $1000 difference in price. The A7iv isn't going on sale anytime soon. $1000 is a big difference.
Great content brother! As I stated in your post the other day, we switched to the S5 and S1 and are exceedingly pleased! Also cool to see another Indipro VMount setup. Love their stuff👊🏼 Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the video but the S5 has unlimited record time in 4k 24 and 4k 30 8 bit. The unlimited time is if you use 10 bit. I'm pretty sure that is what you were thinking. I also am thinking about the Sony A7IV for the same reasons. great video, thanks again.
Really enjoyed an interesting and practical review of both cameras. I sold my Sony A7riv and all my lenses, I am not a professional photographer or film maker, I am just someone who likes to have the best gear I can afford at the time. I sold my Sony A7riv because of the jitter you mentioned and the ergonomics of the camera and the LCD screen that is more decorative than functional. For the same reasons I sold a Sony A9ii earlier in the year. What have I got now ? I bought a nearly new S5 that came with the 20-60mm kit lens and 50mm 1.8 prime lens and I also bought a nearly new S1 body that I later got the 24-105mm lens for. Here is the thing, both cameras feel right when I hold them and in the main they deliver what I want clear sharp photos. No doubt as time goes on and if I have the cash I might look for something else, but right now I couldn’t be happier with them.
Great comparison! Really sensible and not full of cliches! The only thing I would add is that the A7iv active stabilization really helps, sure it crops in a notch but is nearly not noticeable
Would love better auto focus but the S5 is what I’m going to go with I actually like to manually focus on anything whether it’s photos or videos I just did a whole video performance straight manual focus on a old canon and I still did pretty good idk maybe it’s just be but I love the feeling of having a good as video and knowing it was all shot manually.
8:10 - Markets must be different around the world - I purchased an S5 kit with the 20-60 Lens for $A2400 ($US1700) in Australia - the A7iv with the 28-60 (a poorer lens) is $A4199 ($US2930) from the same retailer or $A3750 ($2600) grey import no warranty - that's a huge difference. 10:15 - also always behind the camera (photo/vid) - not interested in vlogging good summary
These companies need sun $2,000 cameras. Like $1800 or less to fill that gap since the mainstream is now $2500. The a7c is a bit dummed down, the z6ii is good and the Eos R isn’t competitive rn. Flip screen all the things too. Just a solid 4k 30p camera with great usability: evf + lcd + joystick etc
Similarly, this is how I'm currently splitting out my cameras. For my purposes, I use my Canon setup for "work" and my Fujifilm for everyday filming/photos. It's all about the use case and what you need for the time and place! Great breakdown here!
Cameras are not mobile phones that we will fix all the issues with a software update .As these are serious hardware machines we need to calcualte how much we have to spend after a camera purchase gimbals,nd filters batteries etc. So, buying a system based on a hipe or y tube videos is a sales pitch. But in countries where we can't return or rent a camera so easily everything matters. So, what we want and what a system offers must be our highest priority as its hard earn money you see. I thank you Patrick for starting this conversation simple short,clear and also not any brand specific.
I just wrapped up (like 2hrs ago) filming a talking head bit of my Lumix S5 review that starts with the exact same postulate as the one you open this video with (pitting it against the A7c though). Now i'm torn between being very happy realizing that other prominent content creators can put things in perspective for their audience when it comes to camera as I wish to do... and feeling like I should scrap it altogether because it is basically the same thing (just in a different language)! Dope piece anyways!
Thank you so much for making this video from a TH-camrs perspective this is one of the best videos I’ve seen giving a comparison of the Panasonic camera
Here is where Im drawing the line to choose this month of February which camera to get... at $2600 the Sony A7iv (sucky kit lens) OR Lumix S5 (dope kit lens) + Ninja V. Even cheaper if you buy the Lumix and lens OB youll spend less. Im going with the Lumix S5 to film music videos and higher image quality. Miss the RAW workflow and storage is not a issue for me.
@@impatrickt @Patrick Tomasso I would give it to the Sony Kit lens if it started around the 24mm, I think the application of a 20mm in comparison outclasses the 28mm. Even a 20mm to a 50mm kit lens is more useful, anything over 50mm is a specialty lens IMO.
@@impatrickt I hear you man, the eye wants what it wants hahaha, 20mm to me is perfect as I love the distortion for music videos. It allows for more room and creativity. Currently using a 12mm on my XT3. Have you had any overheating issues on any of these two cameras?
Thank you gor making this content my body of work are youtube videos yet people come and ask for production usage which not easy for me to answer since I have no professional experience this helps me a lot
I went for the A7IV after using a GH5 for about 3 years. The stabilization of the A7IV isn't good I agree. It was so much better on my GH5... But the AF was a deal breaker for me ! On the Sony I can let the camera roll without thinking about the focus, it is a much better experience for run and gun shooting.
@@lukaslukatiify yup, you must have stab turned off on the camera to make it work. The crop of catalyst browse is also big, I’ve never used it for any client video since I got the A7IV.
I have the S5 and I'm about to pull the trigger on the Sony mainly for Slog3 and real estate videos. I've also heard and seen amazing in regards to the phantom luts. Any input would be much appreciated
Yeah, I'm sticking with the S5 for both being in front and behind the camera. Not really to toss my Canon lens and RP to hop on over to Sony just yet. :)
@@impatrickt , I have an RP for when I need reliable AF. As far as AF with my MC-21 adapter, I can't AF at all with my S5 in video mode. I only use my Canon lenses on the S5 for when I'm doing slow pace photography work because it can focus, but kind of hunts before locking focus. For video work and being in front of the camera with my S5, I use only Panasonic lenses. It's decently reliable, but you already know the deal since you're more experienced with the S5 and Panny lenses than me. I'm happy with the S5 AF for my vlogging this far since people are forgiving when I walk and talk vlog. I notice you do more sit down talking head type videos, so that Sony is definitely needed. I guess it all comes down to user experience and if you're okay with the limitations of gears you own and use. :)
Thank you for this comparison. Not very many videos out there like this one. With your experience with both systems, I’m curious Which one you would most likely rig up. Alpha or Lumix?
Lumix - but I haven't tried rigging the a7iv up yet. I'm planning on it to see if it fixes the IBIS issues I have with it. I'd like to make a run and gun doc style rig for it.
Thank You Patrick true review for both the worlds youtube and real world with client work. I have been waiting for such a video :short and to the point what actually we want instead of fixing into one brand eco system.
Such a fantastic point! The most important part is just what inspires you to shoot! I really appreciate your perspective. Thanks for making this video!
So I mostly use Sony a7iv. But in low light, with a bright window shining light into the room, I find Vlog recovered much better than slog3 from the a7iv. That surprised me. Generally, the Panasonic color looks better to me vlog is just wonderful. But in bright sunlight, Sony's standard profile and HLG look fantastic, has a "magical" quality even, not sure why. But most of the time, I love the Panasonic color, quite a bit better.
each profile has their nuances for exposure too. ive been able to shoot a lot cleaner under exposed with the a7iv than I can with the panasonic and that just fits my style a bit better. I agree you'll likely get more highlight detail and DR out of the panasonic.
Great talk. I love how you put everything in perspective. My question is will Panasonic improve their Af, apparently they had many chances and they still not there. Maybe because they still believe in “cinema is all about manual focusing and be creative” . Why built hybrid cameras, than? I am confused 🤔
Awesome video. Trying to decide between an S5 and Fuji XT3, mainly shoot stills. Tough choice given the deals on new S5s, but have been a fuji shooter for years 🤔
Noice vid. Definitely helped me decide, because I never heard anywhere about the recording limit on the s5. Thanks! Though I don't really get the argument, that the s5 is a better "cinema" camera than the a7iv, when this is the camera with a recording limit.
if you shot film you’re limited to 10 minutes at a time. 30 min is nothing, and never in my 15 years doing this have I shot something narrative with a take longer than 4-5 min. it’s a non starter issue. the a7iv will overheat before you get annoyed by the 30 min limit.
Not related to the video but I can't wait to see you and Danny Gevirtz in one video. The vibe and look kinda complement each other. I don't know. Just my opinion. Anyway, as always, you're spitting facts and personal unbiased opinion so great job on this one!
On 22 Feb the Lumix GH6 will be released. Let's see how the auto-focus will be on that one, and from there we can tell how the future will look for Lumix cameras. My opinion for clients work: I will always "show to impress" and what I mean with that is that I will always go with my cameras rigged out, a lot of accessories, extra gear, lights, etc... Keep in mind that the clients are paying for something that looks professional, they don't want to see a guy with a camera and 1 lens. Great Video man!
In actuality, the Sony is about $1000 more in price. The Lumix S5 @ 1995 comes with a kit lens when purchased separately is $600. The Sony's body is $2495 no lens. That being said, adding a lens to the sony would put it around $3000 . That difference is a lot of dough.
Great video! I have both cameras as well as the G85 too 😅.. also the Sony ZV-E10. What is your best way to color match the S5 and the A7iv if you're using both for the same video?
Recently you could get hold of a new S5 for 1300€ after cashback (200€) in germany. Panny is sold dead cheap here. It just shows what a steal this camera is, considering your point about using it as a sort of cinema camera. Whilst the a7IV is back ordered and costs 2800€
Yeah this. I even got a drawing tablet and all kinds of other stuff with it for free which I was able to resell, taking it down to about €1000. Almost 1/3 the price of the A7IV with things more important to me (IBIS, RAW). The value is incredible.
@@dawuddawid I don't see an equation where getting the S5 lens upped to anything decent can be cheaper than the a7iv. the 35mm f1.8 L mount is $900. I paid $300 for an E mount 35mm.
I'm actually not finding the A7IV really useable for my vlogging and photography while traveling. Lost a lot of shots over the last 10 months and the battery life is sadly pretty short. Not ideal for my situation and I'm probably going back to the S5. The photos missing eye focus is maddening even after the firmware updates.
I wished they listened to you. I went A73R because the A74 was not out (and it is cheaper) as I wanted photo resolution and easy video with good AF. But in every other respect, shooting Pana is just easier and more enjoyable... And the L ecosystem with Sigma would be perfectly fine.
The stuff you put out is always well thought out and I always learn something new when I leave. I look at your final few questions from the Sony viewpoint - If Sony could just figure out IBIS … mic drop.
Here in the UK it's £1300 for s5 with 50mm 1.8 panasonic lens, and £2300 body only with the Sony A7iv so a huge price difference in the UK at least. Also s5 will do unlimited recording in 4k as long as you don't mind 420 8bit recording
@@impatrickt I agree 100% For me I needed 2 cameras I could record over 30 minutes with for things like wedding ceremonies and funerals where focus is locked off so for me s5 made most sense as video ergonomics seem nicer on s5, that it's also half the price is a bonus. I'd been running s5 alongside my a7iii so it was ahead there and the upgrade cost of A7iv didn't make sense for my usage. Anything requiring good af track though the sonys win hands down. Interestingly for photos the af is actually pretty decent as the dfd wobbling isn't a problem for stills. Great to have the choice of 2 great cameras either way
I think the difference in price makes things more difficult now with used prices. S5s can be found for $1350 or so right now whereas the a7iv is still $2450ish (based on Mpb prices). Maybe the IV will get a sale after Christmas though
Regarding the recording limits on the S5, it is because of its smaller size. To reduce the size, they excluded the fan that is present in the other no-limit models. Without that dedicated cooling, they wanted to protect it from overheating. That's what I read anyway, though I don't recall where I read it.
@@impatrickt That's interesting. Was that at 60fps or 30fps? The S5 allows unlimited on 4K/30fps 8-bit 4:2:0 at 100Mbps. Also, I didn't realize the a7iv was so small and without a fan. Thanks for sharing info.
I use the S5 for photography and and video of landscapes and wildlife. It’s an awesome camera. Iv always been with Panasonic ever since they made the G1.
I shot my family ice skating a few weeks ago, and set the S5 to human detect. There were many other people around but the S5 by itself picked out my family to focus on.... it was wild. I think that me shooting in 60fps (of course with the APS-C crop) helps the auto focus by giving the camera DOUBLE the scanning per frame. Of course this does not help when shooting in 24 or 30 FPS with the entire sensor.
@@impatrickt I think if Panasonic had a way to quadrouple the scan it would do the trick... but I am not an electrical engineer so I really don't know what I am talking about. BTW- Your videos are dead on and very good.
I started on Sony and still use Sony cameras…and I think tbh after using them without no ibis for so long it doesn’t really matter once you get used to it and learn how to get good video despite the lack of ibis. I guess it pays off to start without ibis so you don’t have to depend on that
I understand that continuous autofocus is a convenience, but you could have used the S5 and the Lumix sync app (or whatever it is called) and used AF-S, and it would have been perfectly in focus. Maybe in your other videos you move around more or something, but af-s would have been fine for this video of you talking. And an old school tip for shooting yourself using manual focus: Set up your tripod. take the camera off tripod and sit in your chair. Focus manually on the tripod head. Put camera back on the tripod and the focus will be on your face. Works perfectly fine except for people who insist on having DOF so ridiculously shallow that only one eye is in focus.
My first real camera was a G5 and when the GX85 came out in 2016, I bought it, and I loved it. I thought Panasonic would kill everyone off because their cameras looked great, felt even better, had touchscreens, unmatched 4K video quality, amazing 5-axis IBIS, and wonderful native glass. C-AF wasn't good, but nobody had good mirrorless C-AF back then, especially in video, so I figured Panasonic would figure it out at the same rate as everyone else. Imagine my surprise when Panasonic got lapped by Sony, Olympus, Fuji, Canon, and Nikon in video autofocus. If Panasonic had figured out C-AF, I never would have switched off in 2020.
@@impatrickt True, but Canon didn't combine good C-AF with reasonable video specs in a 4K-capable mirrorless camera until 2018, and it wasn't until 2020 with the R5/6 that they had IBIS, so Panasonic had plenty of time to catch up.
I was doing a video for a client 5 years ago with a Lumix G7, there was one shot, very difficult to get, because the actor was not getting it, we had to do the shot at least 20 tries, when one of them we thought we got the right shot, I was tired because of holding a gimbal, and realize the shot was out of focus, that was bad, like really bad, then when the A7iii came out I bought it and never looked back..... AF is a must, Lumix have so much features that are so usefull, but all of those are irrelevant if the shot is out of focus
Nailed it! Btw: s5 records 4k 8bit with bo Limit. The 10 bit is limited. And since the a7s3 I use a lot at work (b2b, fast turn arounds) once completely F.ed up the AF I'm pretty mutch always turning it of -> with no AF there is nothing left to go with Sony but one thing: the stupid microHDMI Hate lumix for that... love them for everything else. Yes I'm a fanboy... obviously
@@impatrickt me neither. 8 bit cinelike D, a few tweaks, fast edit, a million feedback loops.... You are a creative filmmaker I produce videos for internal Corp com... The cheap boring stuff... your stuff here on TH-cam is way higher in quality then the quick and dirty multicam crap we do :)
Good video. Thanks for making it. I currently use the Fuji XT4 with a set of Cine lenses and choose the focal length in the body for IBIS. QUESTION: Does the S5 have the same thing to choose the focal length?
Awesome video! Thanks for sharing. I am looking to do TH-cam, short films, and photography. Have you used anamorphics on the Sony? What’s that workflow like? Has the rolling shutter in the a7IV been an issue for you at all?
UPDATE - my review of the Lumix S5ii: th-cam.com/video/FHL1G5-1aMg/w-d-xo.html
I do a lot of portrait photography and eye autofocus was a novelty turned necessity. Ever since switching to Sony I hardly ever miss a shot and with the a7iv improved AF system it’s like cheating. Great comparison 👍🏼
That’s a great point. I think cuz I don’t do portraits the AF on both cameras for photos have been great.
Try the canon R6 it has Ant Eye AF.
@@letsfindout6587 that sounds fucking stupid
@@impatrickt Says the Fool.
Jobs are shorter since I use Sony
Good insights, Mr. Tomato. 👍💜
keeping these receipts in case someone says you're mean again
@@impatrickt lmao
@@impatrickt I live in Ontario - there are mean Undone receipts lining the streets
LOL, Tomato, Potato, Patricko, Tomassito. Good review, or better. good talk about your experience with video machines. I realize and despite having an S5, having had a G80, a G9 and an XT-4, my favorite machine is a BMPCC6K PRO... which, in addition to incredible color science, doesn't have much else...
Switched to fx3 from the s5. Im already missing shutter angle, ibis, screen brightness and simplicity of menu. But hot damn the af on the fx3 is smooth af. Walking backwards shooting and having the focus locked tight on the eyes of the subject was something I didnt know I needed.
You answered my question perfectly! I’m definitely aiming for that S5 now. Thanks for another honest and practical review.
I bought an S5 the week after the S5 Mark2 was announced. The body + 20-60mm + 50mm + 85mm for £1600 new. The deal was great and now have the confidence in investing in L mount because of the S5 Mark2.
im still not willing to invest in L mount.
BANGING NEW LOGO SEQUENCE :D !!!
A lot of great points here, as someone who is primarily behind the camera ive never relied on autofocus on any camera because I do like video shots being messup up by it in critical points and not having full control over shallow depth shots. I still prefer the S1 over the S5 because of the screen and additional internal codecs, but i rarely find missed focus in photos because of focus peaking helping me nail manual pulls on the fly as well.
You’ve been on an absolute hot streak since you switched to 4:3. Great work!
Really like your honesty in discussing the pros and cons of each camera. I purchased a G85 a few years ago and based my decision on multiple factors but IBIS was a key factor for sure. Also, you mentioned you had a G85 and it "absolutely slapped"! That made me laugh. Thanks again for the video.
the g85 is so good.
Had a similar experience last year when I switched from the Lumix S1 to the Canon R6. I needed a camera that I could trust in all scenarios and sadly the S1 really is a camera you have to work with to get good results rather than a camera that works with you. Great video and good points all around!
Really balanced argument for both. I can totally appreciate your requirements and decision to buy the a7iv. Keep up the great work but do keep the s5 footage coming too. You’re too good with it not to show the world your skills!
Honestly I've been following your page because I'm a lumix s5 shooter but I think you brought up some great points of to the sony vs lumix debate. Great video as always!
If only Panasonic would put tracking Phase Detection AF in their cameras they would instantly rise to the top for camera choices and probably be way more popular. They have most of the other pieces of the puzzle. They just need the AF piece and they are golden.
Yeah can’t understand why they’re not doing it. So stupid:(
100%, there'd be a big spike in the video industry for LUMIX
On 22 Feb the GH6 will be released.. let's see how the auto-focus will be on that one, and from there we can tell how the future in Lumix cameras look.
@@nfcmedia5411 Definitely, if they don't step it up and get the autofocus sorted now they are going to be in trouble of losing so many people
What I don't understand about Panasonic is that they'd figured out everything else five years ago. The GH5 from 2017 is still a competitive camera today in every way except for continuous autofocus. Panasonic was so far ahead of everyone else in 2016-17. Their cameras had unlimited 4K, deep buffers, really fast operation, great UI, amazing build, etc. All they needed was to make one body with PDAF. If they didn't want banding from PDAF pixels on their GH bodies, they could have given us PDAF on the less cinema-oriented G or GX series, and most of us would have bought one of those and been happy, and we probably would have followed Panasonic to FF, too. I don't know what Panasonic has been working on for the last five years because there had one job, to solve autofocus, and they still haven't done it it.
As a Panasonic user I really hope they at least implement an autofocus technology that I can see them improving on, even if it’s a work in progress. Just for some piece of mind when it comes to me investing in their lenses/ecosystem and their future lol.
agreed
You are a cannibal?
I am exactly like you, I switched from the S5 to the A7IV! xD I got the S5 on a heavy discount, which caused me unnecessary pain to make the decision of switching to the Sony. But it was all worth it. When using the Sony, you feel immersed in the creating process, because it just works.
Totally agree.
Couldn’t have said it better. Both baller cameras.
Excellent video 🎉❤. It feels like AF has become a baseline expectation that cannot be walked back on for many of us. And woah the TV raining scene totally made this video vibes love it
This was really interesting. I've got a Gh5 and hoping for a little better low-light performance. The auto-focus doesn't usually worry me -- I just set it to manual and shoot.
I hope you need Sigma 18-35 f1.8. These lenses boost low light performance and overall quality.
I will still choose the Lumix S5. Sure, poor AF performance as compared to the Sony A74 but for what I do, (weddings, corporate, fashion) the Lumix S5 is more than enough and its $1,000 less, maybe cheaper. I got 2 Lumix S5 as my A and B cam and they both perform really well!
I just cant rely on it as my only camera
LUMIX is 3 year behind in AF. If they are on par, they will beat out ALL competition.
But Lumix color clearly looks better than Sony, and IBIS too.
color is subjective im starting to prefer sony
Thanks for this! I’ve always been curious about Panasonic since they do some really awesome stuff and I know next to nothing about it.
New intro is awesome, I’ll honor it by playing this on a tv strapped to a wheeled cart.
LOL I need a wheel cart!
This was great a watch! Great seeing someone be sensible about both cameras and their use cases! I went for the S5 and it's been great for my video business, the Sony autofocus does look amazing though! Keep up the great work!
S5 has been great for me so far, the only time at work it has failed me was when I had to redo a shot 10 times to get a nice focus pull shot from foreground to background. But that’s 1 in like 300shots I’ve taken.
yeah the AF is awful
@@impatrickt The thing is though. When im doing a focus pull, I wouldnt be doing that with any cameras autofocus. Focus pulls will always be better done manually as you can control the speed with much better accuracy and be reacting tow hats happening in front of you. Its when you have the S5 on a gimbal without a wireless follow focus or when youre filming yourself where it can become an issue.
Hi Patrick. I'm here from your suggestion comment on your other channel. I didn't know about this channel, but I knew the other one. So I subscribed here as well. This was something I really needed to watch to make an informative purchase. Thank you so much for creating this comparison video.
cheers! thanks for stopping by!
@@impatrickt Sure thing. 😃
Well-balanced assessment. When the LUMIX is on sale, though, there's a $1000 difference in price. The A7iv isn't going on sale anytime soon. $1000 is a big difference.
Honestly I crunched more numbers and the S5 would have cost me more to get the same focal lengths. It’s cheap because the lenses are bloody expensive.
@@glebmazur9892 you can put the same vintage lenses on the a7iv. Better bang for your buck.
@@impatrickt exactly, just talking about how to make your videos better for 1000$ price difference and not be robbed by native Pana L mount lenses)
Great content brother! As I stated in your post the other day, we switched to the S5 and S1 and are exceedingly pleased! Also cool to see another Indipro VMount setup. Love their stuff👊🏼 Keep up the good work!
I was browsing your channel for reasons of switching and in the meantime this drops. Nice!
Thanks for the video but the S5 has unlimited record time in 4k 24 and 4k 30 8 bit. The unlimited time is if you use 10 bit. I'm pretty sure that is what you were thinking. I also am thinking about the Sony A7IV for the same reasons. great video, thanks again.
im not shooting 8 bit because I need to shoot log, so that mode is useless.
Great comparison. Behind or in front of the camera makes perfect sense if you're trying to decide!
No problem Patrick. I shoot Fuji and Ricoh :D
Really enjoyed an interesting and practical review of both cameras. I sold my Sony A7riv and all my lenses, I am not a professional photographer or film maker, I am just someone who likes to have the best gear I can afford at the time. I sold my Sony A7riv because of the jitter you mentioned and the ergonomics of the camera and the LCD screen that is more decorative than functional. For the same reasons I sold a Sony A9ii earlier in the year. What have I got now ? I bought a nearly new S5 that came with the 20-60mm kit lens and 50mm 1.8 prime lens and I also bought a nearly new S1 body that I later got the 24-105mm lens for. Here is the thing, both cameras feel right when I hold them and in the main they deliver what I want clear sharp photos. No doubt as time goes on and if I have the cash I might look for something else, but right now I couldn’t be happier with them.
my body is ready for this
I think A7iv for gimbal work,and S5 for handheld run and gun It is the best combo
This video made me switch! Thanks for the honest review and pointing out the use cases and not just the features. Thank you from a a new A74 owner!
Great comparison! Really sensible and not full of cliches! The only thing I would add is that the A7iv active stabilization really helps, sure it crops in a notch but is nearly not noticeable
Would love better auto focus but the S5 is what I’m going to go with I actually like to manually focus on anything whether it’s photos or videos I just did a whole video performance straight manual focus on a old canon and I still did pretty good idk maybe it’s just be but I love the feeling of having a good as video and knowing it was all shot manually.
8:10 - Markets must be different around the world - I purchased an S5 kit with the 20-60 Lens for $A2400 ($US1700) in Australia - the A7iv with the 28-60 (a poorer lens) is $A4199 ($US2930) from the same retailer or $A3750 ($2600) grey import no warranty - that's a huge difference. 10:15 - also always behind the camera (photo/vid) - not interested in vlogging good summary
i don’t know how old you are but whatever the age if this video is what informs you of geo-finances… that’s pretty sad.
Great video and perspective. I am part of the Lumix gang thanks to you and Gary.
Love your style man, great video!
These companies need sun $2,000 cameras. Like $1800 or less to fill that gap since the mainstream is now $2500. The a7c is a bit dummed down, the z6ii is good and the Eos R isn’t competitive rn. Flip screen all the things too. Just a solid 4k 30p camera with great usability: evf + lcd + joystick etc
Similarly, this is how I'm currently splitting out my cameras. For my purposes, I use my Canon setup for "work" and my Fujifilm for everyday filming/photos. It's all about the use case and what you need for the time and place!
Great breakdown here!
Cameras are not mobile phones that we will fix all the issues with a software update .As these are serious hardware machines we need to calcualte how much we have to spend after a camera purchase gimbals,nd filters batteries etc. So, buying a system based on a hipe or y tube videos is a sales pitch. But in countries where we can't return or rent a camera so easily everything matters. So, what we want and what a system offers must be our highest priority as its hard earn money you see. I thank you Patrick for starting this conversation simple short,clear and also not any brand specific.
I just wrapped up (like 2hrs ago) filming a talking head bit of my Lumix S5 review that starts with the exact same postulate as the one you open this video with (pitting it against the A7c though). Now i'm torn between being very happy realizing that other prominent content creators can put things in perspective for their audience when it comes to camera as I wish to do... and feeling like I should scrap it altogether because it is basically the same thing (just in a different language)!
Dope piece anyways!
Make it! Your perspective will still be yours and that’s what matters.
@@impatrickt will do 👍🏾…, but yeah, same conclusions
Thank you so much for making this video from a TH-camrs perspective this is one of the best videos I’ve seen giving a comparison of the Panasonic camera
Here is where Im drawing the line to choose this month of February which camera to get... at $2600 the Sony A7iv (sucky kit lens) OR Lumix S5 (dope kit lens) + Ninja V. Even cheaper if you buy the Lumix and lens OB youll spend less. Im going with the Lumix S5 to film music videos and higher image quality. Miss the RAW workflow and storage is not a issue for me.
Both kit lenses are great.
@@impatrickt @Patrick Tomasso I would give it to the Sony Kit lens if it started around the 24mm, I think the application of a 20mm in comparison outclasses the 28mm. Even a 20mm to a 50mm kit lens is more useful, anything over 50mm is a specialty lens IMO.
@@alldreamsmedia I prefer the 28mm. the 20mm looks like a fisheye to me.
@@impatrickt I hear you man, the eye wants what it wants hahaha, 20mm to me is perfect as I love the distortion for music videos. It allows for more room and creativity. Currently using a 12mm on my XT3. Have you had any overheating issues on any of these two cameras?
@@alldreamsmedia I answer that in the video
Thank you gor making this content my body of work are youtube videos yet people come and ask for production usage which not easy for me to answer since I have no professional experience this helps me a lot
Did you just say "absalutley slapped" 😎😂😭🚀🍨
I went for the A7IV after using a GH5 for about 3 years.
The stabilization of the A7IV isn't good I agree. It was so much better on my GH5...
But the AF was a deal breaker for me !
On the Sony I can let the camera roll without thinking about the focus, it is a much better experience for run and gun shooting.
do you hear for catalyst browser?
@@lukaslukatiify yup, you must have stab turned off on the camera to make it work. The crop of catalyst browse is also big, I’ve never used it for any client video since I got the A7IV.
Keep up the good work my friend .Great video.
Nice video….. as you said if Panasonic implemented reliable autofocus they would be on the top of the game.
Nice video.
That background is amazing!
I have s5 for 8 months, never have problems with autofocus.
I have the S5 and I'm about to pull the trigger on the Sony mainly for Slog3 and real estate videos. I've also heard and seen amazing in regards to the phantom luts. Any input would be much appreciated
the phantom luts are phenomenal.
Why not both?
not everyone is crazy like us
@@impatrickt BUT THEY COULD BE!
Great video! saw u in Gerald undone's video with Make Art now!
Great point. The VAST majority of people that buy these cameras are not TH-camrs.
Yeah, I'm sticking with the S5 for both being in front and behind the camera. Not really to toss my Canon lens and RP to hop on over to Sony just yet. :)
how do you manage the AF with canon lenses? I've tried using the MC-11 adapter but it's awful for AF.
@@impatrickt , I have an RP for when I need reliable AF. As far as AF with my MC-21 adapter, I can't AF at all with my S5 in video mode. I only use my Canon lenses on the S5 for when I'm doing slow pace photography work because it can focus, but kind of hunts before locking focus. For video work and being in front of the camera with my S5, I use only Panasonic lenses. It's decently reliable, but you already know the deal since you're more experienced with the S5 and Panny lenses than me. I'm happy with the S5 AF for my vlogging this far since people are forgiving when I walk and talk vlog. I notice you do more sit down talking head type videos, so that Sony is definitely needed.
I guess it all comes down to user experience and if you're okay with the limitations of gears you own and use. :)
Thank you for this comparison. Not very many videos out there like this one. With your experience with both systems, I’m curious Which one you would most likely rig up. Alpha or Lumix?
Lumix - but I haven't tried rigging the a7iv up yet. I'm planning on it to see if it fixes the IBIS issues I have with it. I'd like to make a run and gun doc style rig for it.
Thank You Patrick true review for both the worlds youtube and real world with client work. I have been waiting for such a video :short and to the point what actually we want instead of fixing into one brand eco system.
S5 was $997 on B&H and other sites recently, brand new. Don't think anything can beat it for that price.
Thanks for your balanced perspective!
Such a fantastic point! The most important part is just what inspires you to shoot! I really appreciate your perspective. Thanks for making this video!
So I mostly use Sony a7iv. But in low light, with a bright window shining light into the room, I find Vlog recovered much better than slog3 from the a7iv. That surprised me. Generally, the Panasonic color looks better to me vlog is just wonderful. But in bright sunlight, Sony's standard profile and HLG look fantastic, has a "magical" quality even, not sure why. But most of the time, I love the Panasonic color, quite a bit better.
each profile has their nuances for exposure too. ive been able to shoot a lot cleaner under exposed with the a7iv than I can with the panasonic and that just fits my style a bit better. I agree you'll likely get more highlight detail and DR out of the panasonic.
Great talk. I love how you put everything in perspective. My question is will Panasonic improve their Af, apparently they had many chances and they still not there. Maybe because they still believe in “cinema is all about manual focusing and be creative” . Why built hybrid cameras, than? I am confused 🤔
You said it yourself, autofocus is a consumer oriented feature. Pro’s usually opt to focus manually. Gives better creative control.
Awesome video. Trying to decide between an S5 and Fuji XT3, mainly shoot stills. Tough choice given the deals on new S5s, but have been a fuji shooter for years 🤔
I sold all my Fuji stuff. It’s a personal thing I will leave to you. All cameras are good.
Magic video. Thanks. ❤️✨
Noice vid. Definitely helped me decide, because I never heard anywhere about the recording limit on the s5. Thanks! Though I don't really get the argument, that the s5 is a better "cinema" camera than the a7iv, when this is the camera with a recording limit.
if you shot film you’re limited to 10 minutes at a time. 30 min is nothing, and never in my 15 years doing this have I shot something narrative with a take longer than 4-5 min. it’s a non starter issue. the a7iv will overheat before you get annoyed by the 30 min limit.
@@impatrickt well, definitely a point there. And let´s face it when you need longer recording time, like an interview, you won't need 4k
Not related to the video but I can't wait to see you and Danny Gevirtz in one video. The vibe and look kinda complement each other. I don't know. Just my opinion. Anyway, as always, you're spitting facts and personal unbiased opinion so great job on this one!
Danny is the 🐐
Excellent and honest perspective of both the Panasonic S5 and Sony A74
On 22 Feb the Lumix GH6 will be released. Let's see how the auto-focus will be on that one, and from there we can tell how the future will look for Lumix cameras.
My opinion for clients work: I will always "show to impress" and what I mean with that is that I will always go with my cameras rigged out, a lot of accessories, extra gear, lights, etc...
Keep in mind that the clients are paying for something that looks professional, they don't want to see a guy with a camera and 1 lens.
Great Video man!
as a film student and content creator, this helped me alot. Thanks!
happy to hear that!
Great video as always and opinions on point! 🌹
You're one of the coolest, tbh
In actuality, the Sony is about $1000 more in price. The Lumix S5 @ 1995 comes with a kit lens when purchased separately is $600. The Sony's body is $2495 no lens. That being said, adding a lens to the sony would put it around $3000 . That difference is a lot of dough.
Great video! I have both cameras as well as the G85 too 😅.. also the Sony ZV-E10.
What is your best way to color match the S5 and the A7iv if you're using both for the same video?
Haven’t had to match them, don’t think I likely ever will. But it seems like it would be pretty easy with both in log.
Patrick excellent video as usual. Would you recommend the A7IV over the Fuji X-T4?
without question
Recently you could get hold of a new S5 for 1300€ after cashback (200€) in germany.
Panny is sold dead cheap here. It just shows what a steal this camera is, considering your point about using it as a sort of cinema camera.
Whilst the a7IV is back ordered and costs 2800€
in canada its like 2500 lol
Yeah this. I even got a drawing tablet and all kinds of other stuff with it for free which I was able to resell, taking it down to about €1000. Almost 1/3 the price of the A7IV with things more important to me (IBIS, RAW). The value is incredible.
@@dregdata how you gonna shoot raw without spending $1k on a recorder?
@@impatrickt well, he can invest the money he saved, for not buying the a7IV in an atomos recorder and a good lens, maybe a decent mic and a cage
@@dawuddawid I don't see an equation where getting the S5 lens upped to anything decent can be cheaper than the a7iv.
the 35mm f1.8 L mount is $900. I paid $300 for an E mount 35mm.
Thanks for sharing. I would like to ask about the S5 iso, what is the most you use?
I'm actually not finding the A7IV really useable for my vlogging and photography while traveling. Lost a lot of shots over the last 10 months and the battery life is sadly pretty short. Not ideal for my situation and I'm probably going back to the S5. The photos missing eye focus is maddening even after the firmware updates.
I wished they listened to you. I went A73R because the A74 was not out (and it is cheaper) as I wanted photo resolution and easy video with good AF. But in every other respect, shooting Pana is just easier and more enjoyable... And the L ecosystem with Sigma would be perfectly fine.
The stuff you put out is always well thought out and I always learn something new when I leave. I look at your final few questions from the Sony viewpoint - If Sony could just figure out IBIS … mic drop.
And if Panasonic could figure out autofocus…
Great review
Here in the UK it's £1300 for s5 with 50mm 1.8 panasonic lens, and £2300 body only with the Sony A7iv so a huge price difference in the UK at least.
Also s5 will do unlimited recording in 4k as long as you don't mind 420 8bit recording
So what though? Price is irrelevant if the camera doesn’t do what you need it to do. I actually haven’t even touched the S5 since I got the a7iv.
@@impatrickt I agree 100%
For me I needed 2 cameras I could record over 30 minutes with for things like wedding ceremonies and funerals where focus is locked off so for me s5 made most sense as video ergonomics seem nicer on s5, that it's also half the price is a bonus.
I'd been running s5 alongside my a7iii so it was ahead there and the upgrade cost of A7iv didn't make sense for my usage.
Anything requiring good af track though the sonys win hands down.
Interestingly for photos the af is actually pretty decent as the dfd wobbling isn't a problem for stills.
Great to have the choice of 2 great cameras either way
just the review that I need before buying an s5 .
I think the difference in price makes things more difficult now with used prices. S5s can be found for $1350 or so right now whereas the a7iv is still $2450ish (based on Mpb prices). Maybe the IV will get a sale after Christmas though
i woukldnt buy an S5 even at that price
@@impatrickt good to know 👍 any other options you'd consider right now for a hybrid shooting enthusiast?
Regarding the recording limits on the S5, it is because of its smaller size. To reduce the size, they excluded the fan that is present in the other no-limit models. Without that dedicated cooling, they wanted to protect it from overheating.
That's what I read anyway, though I don't recall where I read it.
a7iv is even a bit smaller and has no limits. no fan.
@@impatrickt does overheat though… mine did after an hour of recording with temp set to high…
@@ThePistonPit ive shot 12 hour days of non stop back to back interviews in 4K. zero over heating.
@@impatrickt That's interesting. Was that at 60fps or 30fps? The S5 allows unlimited on 4K/30fps 8-bit 4:2:0 at 100Mbps.
Also, I didn't realize the a7iv was so small and without a fan. Thanks for sharing info.
@@bjyoungblood I cant do 8 bit 420 because I shoot log. I truly haven't used the S5 since I made this video. it's on a shelf.
I use the S5 for photography and and video of landscapes and wildlife. It’s an awesome camera. Iv always been with Panasonic ever since they made the G1.
I shot my family ice skating a few weeks ago, and set the S5 to human detect. There were many other people around but the S5 by itself picked out my family to focus on.... it was wild. I think that me shooting in 60fps (of course with the APS-C crop) helps the auto focus by giving the camera DOUBLE the scanning per frame. Of course this does not help when shooting in 24 or 30 FPS with the entire sensor.
It’s better in 60 cropped but I still wouldn’t consider it reliable
@@impatrickt I think if Panasonic had a way to quadrouple the scan it would do the trick... but I am not an electrical engineer so I really don't know what I am talking about. BTW- Your videos are dead on and very good.
I really like the grading of your video! Do you use a specific LUT?
i use the phantom luts for sony. thanks!
I started on Sony and still use Sony cameras…and I think tbh after using them without no ibis for so long it doesn’t really matter once you get used to it and learn how to get good video despite the lack of ibis. I guess it pays off to start without ibis so you don’t have to depend on that
That’s not really the issue. It’s that IBIS ruins shots that would be fine without it lmao
I understand that continuous autofocus is a convenience, but you could have used the S5 and the Lumix sync app (or whatever it is called) and used AF-S, and it would have been perfectly in focus. Maybe in your other videos you move around more or something, but af-s would have been fine for this video of you talking. And an old school tip for shooting yourself using manual focus: Set up your tripod. take the camera off tripod and sit in your chair. Focus manually on the tripod head. Put camera back on the tripod and the focus will be on your face. Works perfectly fine except for people who insist on having DOF so ridiculously shallow that only one eye is in focus.
the app is garbage and the focus never sticks. everything you just described, i lived that with the gh5 for 4 years. not doing it again.
My first real camera was a G5 and when the GX85 came out in 2016, I bought it, and I loved it. I thought Panasonic would kill everyone off because their cameras looked great, felt even better, had touchscreens, unmatched 4K video quality, amazing 5-axis IBIS, and wonderful native glass. C-AF wasn't good, but nobody had good mirrorless C-AF back then, especially in video, so I figured Panasonic would figure it out at the same rate as everyone else. Imagine my surprise when Panasonic got lapped by Sony, Olympus, Fuji, Canon, and Nikon in video autofocus. If Panasonic had figured out C-AF, I never would have switched off in 2020.
Canon has dual pixel AF in 2013. Panasonic has been behind for like 10 years lol
@@impatrickt True, but Canon didn't combine good C-AF with reasonable video specs in a 4K-capable mirrorless camera until 2018, and it wasn't until 2020 with the R5/6 that they had IBIS, so Panasonic had plenty of time to catch up.
@@mbvglider which is why panasonic is shit
I was doing a video for a client 5 years ago with a Lumix G7, there was one shot, very difficult to get, because the actor was not getting it, we had to do the shot at least 20 tries, when one of them we thought we got the right shot, I was tired because of holding a gimbal, and realize the shot was out of focus, that was bad, like really bad, then when the A7iii came out I bought it and never looked back..... AF is a must, Lumix have so much features that are so usefull, but all of those are irrelevant if the shot is out of focus
That intro is 🔥 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Nailed it!
Btw: s5 records 4k 8bit with bo Limit. The 10 bit is limited.
And since the a7s3 I use a lot at work (b2b, fast turn arounds) once completely F.ed up the AF I'm pretty mutch always turning it of -> with no AF there is nothing left to go with Sony but one thing: the stupid microHDMI
Hate lumix for that... love them for everything else. Yes I'm a fanboy... obviously
I would never shoot 8 bit v log.
@@impatrickt me neither.
8 bit cinelike D, a few tweaks, fast edit, a million feedback loops....
You are a creative filmmaker
I produce videos for internal Corp com...
The cheap boring stuff... your stuff here on TH-cam is way higher in quality then the quick and dirty multicam crap we do :)
@@impatrickt why not? Banding?
@@AbhijeetSingh-lf3uu try it you’ll see immediately. it looks awful.
@@impatrickt I will, Panasonic s5 will probably be my first actual camera, let's go!!! Oh, and thnx for the review mate, appreciate it.
The Sony colors on the shot of the taco were Phenomenal!!!
Good video. Thanks for making it.
I currently use the Fuji XT4 with a set of Cine lenses and choose the focal length in the body for IBIS. QUESTION: Does the S5 have the same thing to choose the focal length?
Yeah
Awesome video! Thanks for sharing. I am looking to do TH-cam, short films, and photography. Have you used anamorphics on the Sony? What’s that workflow like? Has the rolling shutter in the a7IV been an issue for you at all?
I’m not big on anamorphic but I used the new sirui in the a7siii with Gerald in his review. Sony isn’t great for anamorphic.
@@impatricktCool! Thanks for the feedback.
I shoot with Panasonic because the ap allows me to do a lot of stuff by myself when I’m starring, but I shoot Sony for TH-cam vids.
The monitor+ app for Sony blows the Lumix app out of the water.
@@impatrickt Haven’t seen it, but I admit I don’t have a modern Sony camera.
@@TimeCodeMechanics supports pretty much all of them