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`Bon Voyage Dave. Don't forget the heaters for your equipment-especially the equitorial mount- it can get a bit chilly down there and Lithium batteries don't like frostbite, oh and microfibre clothes for the lenses- lots of them warm and dry. And prove Mr Flatzoid his Grift is over!
Make sure you take some lat long readings when in Punta Arenas. Measure the distance between 2 points and record it, then have people all the way up those 2 point do the same measurement. The ‘metres’ will increase then decrease as predicted. (I mapped it on Google Earth and the results are very interesting and can only happen on a globe)
@@christianpulido8360 that’s why i’m telling dave to actually measure it when on the ground in PUNTA ARENAS to get an accurate reading. then get people to measure the same lines further up the GLOBE. then G EARTH is irrelevant.
Flerfers when presented with mathematics: - _"That's just a bunch of numbers! Trust your senses!"_ Flerfers when presented with visual evidence that the surface of the Earth is curved: - _"That's an optical illusion! Where are your measurements and calculations?"_
Surveyors confirmg that they do indeed have to take the curvature of the Earth into account at all should be the end of the discussion. The Flearthers continuing to argue really just shows what we already knew - a large part of being a flat earther is just wanting to believe you're special and know more than experts in their field because your ego won't let you find healthy ways of dealing with your own perceived inadequicies.
@@ewarwoowar9938 my favorite argument is when flat earthers say things like "oh, they take plane surveying and then apply corrections to make it fit the narrative." It is hilarious because when I ask them if the surveys were correct before or after the corrections, which they claim geodetic surveyors must do, they no longer want to talk about plane or geodetic surveying
@robertcatuara5118 the (relatively) smart ones who's job it is do it for money. The stupid ones do it to feel special because they don't realize they could be putting their time into.something beneficial that would actually make them special.
Flerfs: YOU CAN'T MEASURE ANY CURVE. Surveyors: We constantly measure the curve. Flerfs: Nope, you sure can't measure the curve. Surveyors: We measure the curve so accurately that we can detect the gravitational influence of nearby mountains. Flerfs: Look how flat it is. Surveyors: sigh
It's the "If you really believe in something hard enough, it will become true" philosophy. Most of us don't buy this. We believe reality will kill you whether you believe in it or not.
Akin to geodetics: During WWI, more and more powerful ballistics were becoming less and less accurate, and it was due to planar distortion as the projectile flew further away from the centroid of the map projection. To correct for the curvature of the Earth a multi-zoned map was created to make ballistics both easier and more accurate, the Universal Transverse Mercator ("UTM"). This was war, no room for fooling around, things are only done to match reality.
Hahaha I would love to think that the Axis powers deliberately lost the war by bombing empty fields NEXT TO Allied encampments, because they were so committed to the Globe Earth Lie.
The US artillery "computers" (purely mechanical) used in the Korean war were equipped with Gyrocompasses to find true north. Then they ALSO compensated for Coriolis. One device with TWO proofs that the earth is a rotating sphere. Ask ANY flat earth moron to explain the theory of operation of the Gyrocompass and be prepared for some deafening SILENCE. NOT ONE has EVER responded to me when I ask them to explain the theory of operation of the 100-year old Gyrocompass. I WONDER WHY?
As a former practitioner of the dark art of celestial navigation, I would very much enjoy you doing a video with the FLERFs explaining how celestial navigation works on a flat earth.
Many flerfs say celestial navigation only works on FE but they never say how. I believe MCToons has a challenge with something like 10 or 20K for anyone showing him how to do it on a FE and he's been waiting for a couple of years
Something something stars are moving around the disk... Possibly because the government put them there to confuse you into believing the earth is a sphere.
personally i think celestial navigation is the single best proof that the earth is a globe. It ONLY works on a Globe, and it has been proven to be reliable beyond even the smallest possible shred of doubt, seeing how much use it saw throughout history. Really, this should just immidiately end any argument about the earth being flat.
The Humber Bridge is only 1.4 miles long, but still had to be design to account for the curvature of the Earth - at the top, the towers are 1.4 inches further apart than the bottom.
I think that they didn't so much 'design' the bridge to account for the curvature, but each tower was set out to be built perfectly plumb to its local base position - if not the stress calculations would be out. It was a necessary consequence of that that the tops of the towers are further apart. It was a useful check on the accuracy of their construction.
@@chassetterfield9559 Correct we do NOT need to "design buildings taking earth curvature into account". You just BUILD it using a BUBBLE LEVEL! Bubble Levels FOLLOW THE CURVE.
The horse has been beaten to death, dessicated, and bleached in sun. And yet it still screams 'earth is flat' whenever approached with the stick of knowledge. 😂😂
Dave mentioning Surveyors telling him they wished the Earth was flat because that would make their job easier reminded me of something I thought of many times when I was working in Aircraft Maintenance: It would be much easier to work on Aircraft if _GRAVITY_ did not exist...🤭
@@Katy_Jones I lived at RAF Coltishall in the mid 80's when I was a radar technician at RAF Neatishead. All I know about the Jag's is that they were bloody noisy when trying to sleep off a night shift.
I wish gravity was just electromagnetism. We could have seen flying ironclad warships and space-dreadnoughts if that was the case, since the first electromagnet was invented in 1824.
Imagine not understanding area of a simple 2D shape and then arguing the shape of the planet and that every surveyor on said planet knows less about surveying than you do
That's a simple enough mistake to make - see you have to measure IQ from some distance away to get accurate numbers - the feet have to disappear behind the horizon. If you are too close or stand in front of a mirror you get a number that's too high. Likewise if you measure on a flat earth, you don't get that necessary correction for curvature. They measure 160, but it's really only 80. 😝 (SCNR. I'll show myself out now.)
I'm glad you brought up the corrections needed for the mass of mountains. As I recall, surveying is also how it was discovered that mountain ranges stick down too, i.e. the crust is thicker under mountains. Those errors are less, but are measurable when you survey India due to the immense Tibetan plateau and the Himalayan mountains.
You do get a kickback but it goes to arm and feed the penguins to stop people going too far into the antarctic, that negates your payment, I have the same problem.too.
My father was a surveyor for 50 years. He always adjusted for curvature. This was his small part of the global cover up and every month NASA sent him a cheque for $100…..honest….
Even at $100/month, imagine what their total budgets must be for the literally millions of people across the globe who they need to pay to keep quiet. No wonder NASA never has enough money for missions. It's all going towards The Conspiracy!
it was not 'earth curve' he was adjusting for, it was Topographical Variations. erm derp, how much 'earth curve' you think you'r gonna get in such Short scare Ranges? use you noggins if your have any. Go back to bed sleepwalker..
First rule of Flerf: Flerf citations always contradict the flerf’s claim. No exceptions. Fourth rule of Flerf: Every attempt to flerf-explain a phenomenon contradicts flerf-explanations of some other phenomena. No exceptions. Gotta lie for Flerf.
Finally you got to proof of a globe through surveys! We proved the earth was round using a theodolite in TWO different ways in my freshman year of my civil engineering course
@@mikeflatbird729 Says the clown who can't explain a sunset without butchering the rules of perspective, and uses numerous childish attempts at insults.
I still have a hard time understanding why Flerfs believe what they see is flat: do they all live in Kansas, USA? Because most places on the planet are, in fact, not flat at all. Plenty of hills, slopes, mountains, valleys. Meanwhile, anyone who takes a plane and gets a window seat on a nice day can _see for themselves_ the curvature of the earth. Who, and what, is really apparent here?
Thing is, Everytime a flattie actually makes the effort to test the shape of the earth, they find out it's a globe and all the other flatties say he just wasn't a real flattie anyways. It's natural selection for the most dishonest flattie ever.
To your point. We, that is people who are not FN-tards, enjoy the world wide web in every corner of the globe. Is there anywhere we can not reach each other? We turned the world into a village. Now? Our community is not just our neighbors, but can include anyone in the world who is also on the web. The flip side of this coin is that all the Village Idiots? Are now all in the same Village, receiving the positive feedback required to be a part of a community. This is the fun part. Where does that leave the Village Idiot? A man used to be able to pack his stuff, if anything was left after whatever huge mistake he made, and move on to another place.... a place where it was possible to remake himself... to apply what he learned without the stigma of being the Village Idiot. Redemption was possible. But not now. There is no "other village" now. Humanity has a hole in the very center of it... that hole can ONLY be filled with Community. It's why God is so popular for so long.... because before the net, your community was local only. Sure you can listen in on the radio, but there is no positive feedback to make you feel like you're In. I suspect that very instant that a flat earther figures out that he is stupid, has been stupid, and is actively promoting a conspiracy to make everyone stupid..... at that exact moment? They have an existential crisis. Is there a community for ex-flat earthers? Maybe that would be more of a support group? Can they make a complete 180 right then and there, and join the rest of us in the appreciation of all the work Science has ever given to us, even to those of us who are idiots? Would we let them? Will we even allow for the redemption of a flat earther? Because if we do not.... they are only going to remain as a part of a sick cult... but fully aware of how fake their existence is. NOW! Personally? I choose violence. I refuse to allow a flatearther to speak their BS in my presence without smacking them in the mouth.
I have bachelor's and master's degrees in Civil Enginenering. I'll never forget the first day of Surveying Systems on my very first day of engineering school, Dr. Williams taught us the difference between "flat" and "level." Because they aren't the same thing.
A slightly weird question: can you switch that feature off? If you can, you could survey the same area with both methods and then check which method produces fewer errors. Using the same device for measuring eliminates some systematic errors due to differences in devices (a'ka production tolerances).
I suppose the question that wasn't answered in the debate is "if the earth is flat, why is there even a need to take flat segments and stitch them together into a sphere in the first place?"
They believe the globe is a concerted effort by reptilians/illuminati/jews/whateverthefuck to undermine belief in God. The flerfs that like to cosplay as scientists with all their experiments are never going to say that out loud, but that's the short of it.
I discovered earth curvature during land surveying on a college field trip . In short, we triangulated a circa 1sq km of undulating land , using highly accurate theodolites, the class split up into 6 groups of 4 and when we transposed our readings onto a hand drawn map. WE ALL HAD THE SAME 'ERRORS'. in that, our trig points increasingly overlapped towards the corners, because we were taking data from a curved surface and attempting to flatten it onto a 2d plane....we all had a collective 'A-HA' moment at the end of that beautiful week in the Lake District
according to flat earthers...yes. And we can't forget that they're supposed to *remove* the curvature value, so there's also a chance thingy that they aren't adding unnecessary numbers, but they're subtracting unnecessary numbers according to some 'made up chart'. Which would be equally bad for the accuracy.
The curvature is insignificant at relatively short distances because the earth is huge. You could measure a coastline very accurately with a one foot ruler but it would take decades. Surveyors must logically weigh precision of measurement with the value of the survey. Surveying a parcel of farmland in upstate New York is going to be different than surveying a parcel in downtown Manhattan.
The whole issue with flat earthers is that they look for what the want to hear, take it completely out of context, and throw literally everything else out regardless of what evidence it will tell you.
Did anybody else notice that when, at 23:20, when Dave says "I think this video has gone on long enough," Rusty immediately picked up his head and looked at Dave as if he understood what was said?
@spacelemur7955 Perhaps Rusty is the smart one and Dave is purely a mouthpiece? Has anyone considered that? 🙂🌏 Edit: End a question with a question mark (the first one). Standards must be maintained!
@@veivoli _"Perhaps Rusty is the smart one and Dave is purely a mouthpiece?"_ That would explain why Rusty is often trying to break Dave's habit of waving his hands when he talks.
Over 100 square miles... That's 10x10 miles. Over such an area, the difference between flat and the curve of the Earth is often still within the construction tolerances. BUT... For the flerfs, 100 square miles mean a square with 100 miles sides.🤦🏽
I myself had forgotten how the labeling of square miles works and fell for the same trap. The main difference is, I actually accepted that I'd gotten it wrong, adopted the correction and - and this is the fun part - immediately stopped being wrong as a result. I find too many people are more afraid of having been wrong in the past than in being wrong in the present, and it just makes them even MORE wrong in past, present, AND future. That's no way to live. The tiniest bit of humility leads to an endless amount of learning. Those who never learn will be left behind by the world around them, not out of spite, but out of simple cause and effect. The same way standing still on a treadmill will lead to you moving backwards.
Yeah, when he said that I just laughed. I do railroad surveys that are usually around 2000 ft in total project length and we still apply adjustments for curvature.
Former surveyor here. Very familiar with the Leica total stations. Different surveys require different accuracies, and a lot is done with gps now, but definitely have to account for earth curve for some precise surveys. In fact we calculated the curve roughly using a total stations in school in one lab. Pretty funny to hear witsit talk about it like he knows the field lol
The dishonesty of Witsit is amazing. He says over and over that surveyors MUST use plane surveying or we can't build anything, when the book clearly says that you CAN ignore Earth's curvature over shorter distances, if you choose to do so, because it makes the math so much easier, but surveyors are more than welcome to do it the hard way if, for one reason or another, they need to be extremely precise. Nowhere does it say you MUST ignore it or you'll get bad results.
I have mentioned this before on the comments in many flat earth vids. Now I am talking about the UK. Not America. OK, we have Jersey a channel island,approximately 90 ish miles from mainland UK. I have traveled in a small boat from Jersey to mainland UK at night. From Jersey you just cannot see the light from the lighthouse at Portland (Dorset UK) As you come across the channel at some point you will see the “loom” of the light from Portland. Which is well up into the sky,as you gradually travel on,the light comes into view. But it’s still in the sky. Travel on and the light gradually comes almost to eye level. Eventually actually becoming eye level. If this does not signify the curvature of the earth then I have no idea how flat earthers would ever be convinced.
I asked one of them why nobody had ever seen the coast of France from Portland, or either of the Channel Islands... or watched waves lapping on a French beach from Dover cliffs. They told me to prove that nobody had. I don't think they want to be convinced, they just want something that gives their lives some meaning, however pitiful.
I recall watching an episode of one of those "modern marvels"-like shows where they were talking about a particularly long bridge. I can't recall what bridge, but I do remember them saying in the show that ends were far enough apart that they needed to correct for earth's curvature. This makes sense because if they didn't then the towers would be leaning and likely collapse.
Also... we do not rely on "planar surveys" for large construction projects. Long Span bridges require curve and air refraction corrections if sightings are over water. This is the same for large-footprint buildings such as malls, distribution centers, etc.
malls and distribution centers huh. how long do you think those buildings are to cover so much 'earth curve'? you people are ridiculous. You only detect and measure topographical variations and elevations. nothing more.
@@mikeflatbird729 so you likely have only been to a small strip mall. Maybe in your trailer park, the biggest building is quite small. Mall of America covers acres just for the building. Giga Factories are even larger. Some Amazon warehouses cover several acres. I worked on a warehouse that was 1,000m x 500m... Thats a kilometer by half a kilometer or in freedom units lots of football fields by not as many.
@@mikeflatbird729 you are just a parrot with no actual information about the topic at all and i just realized your name is flatbird. makes much more sense now
Yet again - a flerf thinks they've found a "gotcha" the experts have missed that proves the globe is a conspiracy and then mistakes their "gotcha" for proof the Earth is flat. And also - yet again - the "gotcha" is really something the experts have known about and taken into consideration for literally decades if not centuries if not millennia. You'd think they'd be exhausted from moving the goalposts so often, but stupidity is nothing if not persistent.
Unlikely, just like he doesn't realise that 10 miles would only account for 0.14 degrees of curvature. He also seems to think that plane surveying is used to measure the shape of the earth, rather than local elevation and topography.
In the early 1970s I had the hobby of designing, building and flying model rockets, and was a member of a club. We would fly them for fun, but also in competitions, in various categories, including one called predicted altitude. We measured their altitude using a measured baseline, and placed at each end a basic theodelite type of device. Each was a tripod, a sighting tube with crosshairs, and azimuth and elevation scales. Placing the launch pad near the midpoint of the baseline (but offset a bit from it to avoid a dead spot from either tracker) we would launch and then "spot" the rocket at its peak altitude (usually recovery system deployment). We would take the azimuth & elevation figures, plug them into a formula, and derive the altitude.
I work in the field of flight simulation. Back in the early days of my career, computers simply were not powerful enough to simulate Earth curvature - and it caused MANY inconsistencies. Only when we developed the capability to simulate first perfectly spherical Earth - then one that follows the WGS-84 specification did we finally get high enough precision for things like modern auto-landing auto-pilots to not arrive over our simulated airfields with their wheels six inches under the tarmac! More recently, I've been working on lunar simulation for NASA's Artemis program - and the shape of the Moon is WAY different - so a whole different set of math is required. Anyway - if all of this was being faked - then I'd have to be a part of the conspiracy...building all of that extra math - only to turn it off for actual simulation! Since I'm telling you all of this quite openly - and there are no black helicopters circling my home waiting to arrest me before I can hit "SEND" - I think it's safe to say that the Earth is not in fact flat.
@@victorfinberg8595Flat Earth was one of the main vanguards in our current war of knowledge. Those who seek to hold power want to annihilate the possibility of knowing. Now, claims of any kind outstrip our ability to discern.
@@antondovydaitis2261 "war of knowledge". Yeah, Flat earth is on the side of anti-intellectualism and bringing back diseases we almost got rid of. Go eat more lead paint.
@@victorfinberg8595 First, not spamming. Second, Flat Earth was effectively the prototype of easily debunked absurdity, aggressively promoted by grifters abusing deliberately credulous marks. It demonstrated that there is no falsehood so absurd that it can't be promoted and abused.
A 100 square miles sounds like a lot until you realise that the earth has 197000000 square miles of surface area. Of this would be 1/1970000 of the total. Now take a basterkball, draw an area on it that is 1/1970000 of the total.
@@probablynotmyname8521 they are lol. iirc, the Earth's atmosphere and deepest part of the ocean combined are thinner than the skin of an apple, if the earth was apple sized.
Flatzoid ignores evidence and facts because of his religious faith. It is fairly common among flerfs who believe their respective religious texts claim the earth is flat and unmoving. Sadly for them all the major religions agree the earth is a globe but the flerfs continue to disagree.
Gotta love the way Witshit cites "all survey manuals" to rebut the claim that earth has a radius ...and then ignores the fact that _all_ of those survey manuals say the earth _has a radius._ Which is it Austin, are survey manuals an authoritative source, or are they purveyors of the pernicious lie? 😅
It's also worth checking out the Great Trigonometrical Survey of India. This also shows the curve, shows that the curve isn't quite a sphere but is an oblate spheroid, and had to correct for the gravitational pull of mountains. Additionally, since these high accuracy surveys do need to correct for gravitational anisotropy from geological features, that proves that the downward acceleration that we call gravity cannot be explained by saying that the Earth is a flat plate that's being constantly accelerated upwards- from different parts of the surface experience gravity at slightly different speeds and in slightly different angles, the disk would quickly break apart. And since the 'constantly accelerated flat plate' model is therefore ruled out and we know that the different parts of the Earth are gravitationally attracted to each other, that opens up the question of how exactly such a flat plate Earth would structurally maintain its shape without collapsing into a ball.
As a Civil Engineering Technologist, I am well-versed in the use and application of various types of surveying. Construction-level surveying works locally based on known benchmarks with known elevations or locally established construction-level benchmarks. GPS is also commonly used, but benchmarks are still required for correction. The skill level of construction surveyors is at the Technician Level usually two years community college or as part of a larger technicians course. The next type of survey is large site surveying, such as a large subdivision. This will require several benchmarks as well as boundary surveying. The instruments used are GPS and Theodolite. The skill level is Technologist usually three or four years community college. The next type of surveying is Geodetic, legal boundary surveying, and descriptions, establishing benchmarks to be used by technicians and technologists, and hydrographic surveying. The skill level is four years of university. Instruments used include GPS, GPS Base Stations, Satellite communications, optical theodolites, and other tools.
you account for topographical variations. nothing more. There is no 'earth curve' in the short scale ranges you worked with. mkayy. period. no ifs ands or buts about it.
@@mikeflatbird729 fair enough... IT.. fine.. so what do you know about construction/legal/geodetic surveying? Ever used a Theodolite? Total Station? Level? Ever surveyed a six thousand-home sub-division? How about a long-span bridge? If you are only surveying around your house you don't take the curve into account. One good reason for that is any monuments established in your area are already corrected. Large scale areas such as subdivisions, and business parks do take curvature into account. I know a bit about IT but not enough to even comment about. I can actually program in Cobal but only up to the year 2000. I am way too rusty having last used it 24 years ago and it's pretty much a dead language. So I would never question someone with more knowledge about IT. You should stay in your own lane, or go out and get an education from a qualified college or university.
@@mikeflatbird729 So you are an expert in programing or code writing for computers? Just how would that relate to surveying, to which you are now trying to add to your resume?
Guess what? My father was an army cartographer while in service. He did just that - went into the field with teodolite, took measurements and used them to draw maps for army to use. We can safely assume his superiors wouldn't be very happy with his work, if he was not precise and exact. What my dad did when I introduced him to the concept of flat Earth and their "arguments"? He just laughed. So, yeah - I have first hand confirmation that this argument is bollocks.
I have spent over 10 years working for Surveying companies as a 3D Laser Scanning Specialist, Yes... the curvature of the Earth is factored in to all of the calculations for large area coverage.
A nice example are the pillars of the golden gate bridge. The pillars are definitely not parallel and this of course is built this way because the curvature of the earth.
If I could make everyone understand one thing about engineering, it would be that we don't have or need perfect measurements, calculations, and models. There is uncertainty and error in all engineering, and how much we can accept depends on the application. We take the easiest adequate solution to the problem because its not worth the extra effort to get a "perfect" solution when a good enough solution is available. That applies to surveying as well. Over a certain distance, assuming a plane works well enough for most applications. How long that distance is depends on how good the solution needs to be.
That annoys me to no end. I work with photogrammetrists and if you want to obtain the kind of 3D reconstructions you see on Google earth you need to keep into account the Earth's curvature. It's not a secret, it's not an assumption, you can work with UTM coordinates but you'll accumulate errors in the 10s of centimeters very quickly. The assumptions you can make all depend on the precision you need.
FLERF: "Do your own research, it'll show the Earth is flat!" Dave: Does extensive research, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Earth is a sphere. FLERF: "Nuh uh!"
It might be instructive to put a 100 square mile dot on your globe. It'd be about half as big as the Isle of Man. Going to need a 4K display to notice it at that scale
Videos like this are why I'm subscribed, I like laughing at how dumb flat earthers are, but what I value more is furthering my understanding of how the shape of the earth affects things and I love that you go into detailed explanations of why the flat earthers are wrong so I get to learn some of that stuff. Mostly it is basically what I had been assuming or had figured must be the case, but it is nice to have that stuff corroborated.
Surveyors have known about curvature for centuries. The Public Land Survey System started back in the late 1700’s realized that. The United States is divided into hundreds of squares called townships from Ohio westward and every 4th townships was adjusted to account for curvature called a standard parallel. Surveyors often refer to Mount Rushmore as the three surveyors and the other guy. The General Land Office survey of the U.S. is a fascinating study.
If you are standing in the middle of 100 square miles, then it's 5 miles to the edge of the boundry box for that area. What do you need a telescope for?
It's funny how confident flat earthers are about geodetic surveying. Geodetic surveying measures that vertical is no parallel across the surface of the earth. Which suggests that the earth can not be flat. And then the meridians converge, both north and south away from the equator, to a single point in both directions. Which suggests the earth can not be flat.
I love how flerfers talk about what others do (surveyors, pilots, civil engineers, scientists, …) but none of them do it themselves or ever had a job as one of these professions. I would love any of these clowns actually try to become qualified enough to apply for these jobs!
It's funny to see those two flerfs talking authoritatively about a surveying, a field they have zero training in. And when Flatzoid was talking about 120 square miles, he was treating it as if 120 square miles were 120 miles. No. To get the radius of a 120-square-mile area, you divide it by pi and then take the square root! That's only a 6.18-mile radius. I was yelling at the screen: "SQUARE miles, you idiot! Not miles! It's SQUARE miles!!"
The figure for 100 square miles is a circle with a radius of 5.65 miles. At that distance from the centre point the drop is about 255" based on 8" x 5.65². So still not insignificant in reality but Dave needs to do a correction somewhere. It seems like a problem until you work out what effect that will have on a large building site and the answer is not a lot unless you are building really really high and then bridging between the tops of your really really high buildings. I calculated that the angular difference between two verticals at opposite edges of that circle would be about 0.17°.
At this point, I’m starting to think people like FTFE are grifters too. They know the people they’re debating are wrong and/or lying, but they choose to make a career out of debating them for content, and YT revenue. It’s not a legitimate interest in countering flerfers, it’s entertainment for clicks - on both sides.
@@akastewart Of course it is. They spend four hours in the middle of the night talking to complete science illiterates going over the same old sh!te over and over again. A 'debate' from five years ago is virtually the same as one done last night.
@@akastewart How is that even slightly like grifting? They know that the other people are wrong and... correct them. Whether their videos were made for entertainment or any other reason has nothing to do with them being a grift; a grift is, by definition, DECEPTIVE, and so stating the truth explicitly cannot be a grift.
Dave, you are not wasting your time making these videos, because through your videos, I learn so many interesting stuffs about Earth, space, photography, etc.
Checking the Wiki article on the Humber suspension bridge states, " The bridge is designed to tolerate constant motion and bends more than 3 m (10 ft) in winds of 80 mph (129 km/h). The towers, although vertical, are 36 mm (1.4 in) farther apart at the top than the bottom due to the curvature of the Earth." The world isn't flat
Former surveyor here. The entire us is broken down to 1x1 mile "section"s. Every so often we have a goofy shaped section to account for curvature. Iirc its every 16 sections.
Thank you. I am a qualified surveyor, but I haven't been active in the profession for a while. It was a nice nostalgic episode for me. And there was also something in there that I didn't know (or had forgotten).
This is pretty cool as it means any flat earther can go and do a trigonometrical height measurement of a distant object and account for refraction only in their calculation. Then they could go and do a physical measurement of the height of the object and on a flat earth, the trigonometrical calculation and the physical measurement should be the same. Have any of them tried this?
I bring this up every time, since this should also apply to the sun, moon, and stars in their model. Of course, the results they get are completely inconsistent, so instead of admitting they’re wrong they just deny math.
I have to disagree. I don't think most flerfs could do this. It starts with this problem: "What is trigonoma...thingy and why are there so many weird numbers involved? Can't we just assume this Pi thing is 3. Or maybe 2, that's easier. ... Could we have some real Pie instead?"
Now it's all lasers and a digital readout, which is boring, but I once got to use an OG theodolite with the prisms that make the picture line up only when you adjust it correctly. It was a long time ago so I don't remember the exact details, I just remember it was really cool to get it right.
Did they line up horizontally or vertically? :D Horizontally-lining-up is what's used in convergence range finding, whereas vertical is stereoscopic range finding for warships.
@5peciesunkn0wn This all happened around 25 years ago, so I don't remember everything, but the guy showing it to me must have demonstrated both, because I remember there being four picture tiles and having to line it up in both directions at different points. What they were doing before I was there was measuring out terrain for a new building and there was a second guy with a little shiny target on a stick standing on the other side of the empty plot for the first guy to aim his theodolite at.
I have video of an aircraft taking off from Leeds-Bradford Airport, and many videos of take-offs and landings at RAF Linton-on-Ouse, and neither of those runways is level. Then there's the Altiport at Courchevel.
100 square miles area is only a 5.64 mile (9.0767 km) radius circle centered on on the measurement taker so anything within 5.64 mile can be measured planer because the correction needed is so small that it is pointless for the most part however after that the difference becomes almost logarithmic which is why you need to use the geodetic adjustments
Plane surveys are not taking uncorrected 5.64-mile sights - they are taking multiple shots creating a mesh network where each sight distance is a few hundred feet. The calculated dip/refraction correction on each sight is below the measurement error. The key is for plane surveying, when you establish a new sighting point, you should traverse a level with similar foresight and backsight distances so even those very small measurement errors cancel each other out and the difference in correction for each pair of foresight/backsight is now well below the noise threshold so much so that it can't accumulate. When you get beyond about 10 square miles the spherical excess of the figure you are trying to average out gets too big to ignore and starts messing up the whole system's accuracy.
In short, you can measure spherical excess doing long distance triangulation with a theodolite. The sum of the internal angles is not 180 degrees as in a planar triangle but always slightly more as in a spherical one. I think I was 11 when we covered this at school.... Ramsen built the first accurate theodolite and they were used in high precision geodetic surveys carried out in the UK starting in 1784 which produced the first accurate maps.
The Earth is locally flat but globally curved, i.e., spherical. If only they took the time to explore geometry and topology a little, they might hopefully see how easily the whole flat Earth issue falls apart.
For the 100 square miles, use a circle with a radius of 5.64 miles with you at the centre. The effect of curvature in any direction is now even less than the calculations that you provided.
True, but possibly not relevant, as surveys typical measure the distance and/or terrain between two positions. They won’t include the radius behind them in the same positional measurement. This wouldn’t meet the 100miles2 threshold. Still, it’s useful to illustrate how ‘small’ 100miles2 is.
The fundamental misunderstanding (or intentional misrepresentation) that flatzoid makes is that plane surveys are completely accurate at short distances, when in fact they're not accurate at any distance, but the error over a small distance is low enough that it can be safely ignored for all but the most critical measurements.
This is so ridiculous. If the earth was flat, and the sun and moon are local and just moving around over it, we should be able to see them from anywhere at any time, even if, as they claim, the sun shines down like a spotlight. Yet, at sunset, we see the sun go below the horizon but stay the same size. If it were moving away, it would be getting smaller and smaller yet still be visible at all times. I don't get how this is not obvious to flerfs.
120 square miles is about 11 miles by 11 miles. The rate of curvature in 11 miles is 11/69ths of a degree, well within floor/surface/slab tolerances for most applications. It just is irrelevant for non critical applications.
When they said the thing about 100 square miles I just knew they had to be selectively reading. I work on subways and the earths curvature of ~6ft/mi has to be taken into consideration at much shorter distances than 10mi. Only reason you don't consider it for buildings and bridges is because building footprints are tiny relative to curvature, and most bridges don't span long enough for it to matter... But there are plenty of long bridges where it does matter.
These people are just role-playing in a game in which they are the smart guys. If they actually wanted to know the shape of the planet they could just spend a day surveying a one mile transect of the surface of a water body.
If they were really keen they'd fly me to Copenhagen, get me a couple of GPS trackers and rent a canoe for me for a week so I could take those trackers on a water-level tour of the coast all the way around the island, or buy me a canoe and get me the trackers so I could take them on a tour of the UK coastline, but not a squeak from any of them when I suggest that.
Flat earthers arguing that surveyors only account for earth curvature sometimes is like young earth creationists citing scientific measurements of "only" 50,000 years proves a 6000 year old earth.
I encourage people to look up in a dark sky and realize that the stars (including our Sun during the daytime), our Moon, and planets appear to move in arcs, except for the North Celestial Star, Polaris, which with the unaided eye does not exhibit movement. The arcs that we observe in the celestial objects mimic the radius where the person is located on the radius of the Earth. What people may not realize is that, the Sun's apparent arc movement is different than the other stars, because we orbit the Sun and not the other stars. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Flat Earthers love to cry about how you can't use things in the sky to prove the shape of the ground. They only say that because the evidence is devastating to their claims.
What exactly do you mean by "the Sun's apparent arc movement is different"? It's exactly on the ecliptic and over one day the arc is pretty much the same as all ecliptic stars. Only it changes location on the ecliptic slightly from day to day. The same is true for the planets and our moon (with some slight deviations from the ecliptic due to inclination of their orbits). But you have a very good point here: get a star map and a basic astronomy book, observe for a few nights over a couple of months and be amazed - those pesky globe and heliocentric models seem to work for some odd reason.
You can measure deviations between plum lines in as little as 1 kilometer with precise equipment. If you trust the equipment, you can actually show deviation over just 90 meters! It is SUPER small, but NOT ZERO (which would be required for flat earth)
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`Bon Voyage Dave. Don't forget the heaters for your equipment-especially the equitorial mount- it can get a bit chilly down there and Lithium batteries don't like frostbite, oh and microfibre clothes for the lenses- lots of them warm and dry. And prove Mr Flatzoid his Grift is over!
Make sure you take some lat long readings when in Punta Arenas. Measure the distance between 2 points and record it, then have people all the way up those 2 point do the same measurement. The ‘metres’ will increase then decrease as predicted. (I mapped it on Google Earth and the results are very interesting and can only happen on a globe)
Please tell them how the hell is the Line in Saudi going to work
@@markh-thaiYou do know that Google Earth uses 2D and 3D right?
@@christianpulido8360 that’s why i’m telling dave to actually measure it when on the ground in PUNTA ARENAS to get an accurate reading. then get people to measure the same lines further up the GLOBE. then G EARTH is irrelevant.
Flerfers when presented with mathematics:
- _"That's just a bunch of numbers! Trust your senses!"_
Flerfers when presented with visual evidence that the surface of the Earth is curved:
- _"That's an optical illusion! Where are your measurements and calculations?"_
Flerfers when presented with a goalpost: I don't want it there, I want it over here!
The concept of polyhedra would melt these peoples brains... It's quite literally both lol.
Thats so good it could be a tattoo
If they didnt have double standards they wouldnt have any standards at all.
Either that, or the more blatantly dishonest:
- _"Trust the assumption of FE, not what your eyes tell you."_
Flat Earther confrims Globe, again
I knew I'd find this comment - I just didn't expect it to be the only (non-Dave) comment here - I guess I'm earlier than I thought.
Interesting.
Thanks Bob
Confirms.
They are really good at that.
Surveyors confirmg that they do indeed have to take the curvature of the Earth into account at all should be the end of the discussion. The Flearthers continuing to argue really just shows what we already knew - a large part of being a flat earther is just wanting to believe you're special and know more than experts in their field because your ego won't let you find healthy ways of dealing with your own perceived inadequicies.
I thought it was lying for money.
@@ewarwoowar9938 my favorite argument is when flat earthers say things like "oh, they take plane surveying and then apply corrections to make it fit the narrative." It is hilarious because when I ask them if the surveys were correct before or after the corrections, which they claim geodetic surveyors must do, they no longer want to talk about plane or geodetic surveying
@robertcatuara5118 the (relatively) smart ones who's job it is do it for money. The stupid ones do it to feel special because they don't realize they could be putting their time into.something beneficial that would actually make them special.
Flerfs: YOU CAN'T MEASURE ANY CURVE.
Surveyors: We constantly measure the curve.
Flerfs: Nope, you sure can't measure the curve.
Surveyors: We measure the curve so accurately that we can detect the gravitational influence of nearby mountains.
Flerfs: Look how flat it is.
Surveyors: sigh
It's the "If you really believe in something hard enough, it will become true" philosophy. Most of us don't buy this. We believe reality will kill you whether you believe in it or not.
Akin to geodetics: During WWI, more and more powerful ballistics were becoming less and less accurate, and it was due to planar distortion as the projectile flew further away from the centroid of the map projection. To correct for the curvature of the Earth a multi-zoned map was created to make ballistics both easier and more accurate, the Universal Transverse Mercator ("UTM"). This was war, no room for fooling around, things are only done to match reality.
heck when shooting at targets beyond 1km earths rotation has to be taken into account with firearms XD
Hahaha I would love to think that the Axis powers deliberately lost the war by bombing empty fields NEXT TO Allied encampments, because they were so committed to the Globe Earth Lie.
@@donperegrine922Seeing this was WW1, those would be Central powers, not Axis.
The US artillery "computers" (purely mechanical) used in the Korean war were equipped with Gyrocompasses to find true north.
Then they ALSO compensated for Coriolis. One device with TWO proofs that the earth is a rotating sphere.
Ask ANY flat earth moron to explain the theory of operation of the Gyrocompass and be prepared for some deafening SILENCE.
NOT ONE has EVER responded to me when I ask them to explain the theory of operation of the 100-year old Gyrocompass.
I WONDER WHY?
@@morzemus1805 oh yeah. I'm dumb on Fridays
As a former practitioner of the dark art of celestial navigation, I would very much enjoy you doing a video with the FLERFs explaining how celestial navigation works on a flat earth.
Many flerfs say celestial navigation only works on FE but they never say how. I believe MCToons has a challenge with something like 10 or 20K for anyone showing him how to do it on a FE and he's been waiting for a couple of years
Something something stars are moving around the disk... Possibly because the government put them there to confuse you into believing the earth is a sphere.
personally i think celestial navigation is the single best proof that the earth is a globe. It ONLY works on a Globe, and it has been proven to be reliable beyond even the smallest possible shred of doubt, seeing how much use it saw throughout history. Really, this should just immidiately end any argument about the earth being flat.
That is indeed an art practiced when it's dark.
Part of FE celestial navigation is rewriting the manual for celestial navigation to eliminate any reference to the globe and Earth curvature.
The Humber Bridge is only 1.4 miles long, but still had to be design to account for the curvature of the Earth - at the top, the towers are 1.4 inches further apart than the bottom.
I seem to recall a similar stat of about 2 inches for the Golden Gate Bridge
Ditto Dartford Crossing. Happens the world over
@@mrew42 It'd be worrying if didn't happen everywhere :)
I think that they didn't so much 'design' the bridge to account for the curvature, but each tower was set out to be built perfectly plumb to its local base position - if not the stress calculations would be out. It was a necessary consequence of that that the tops of the towers are further apart. It was a useful check on the accuracy of their construction.
@@chassetterfield9559 Correct we do NOT need to "design buildings taking earth curvature into account".
You just BUILD it using a BUBBLE LEVEL!
Bubble Levels FOLLOW THE CURVE.
Flat earthers proving that they are wrong is always something I love to see. Like lightning striking twice
And yet they seem unbothered by that and declare a win for their cause regardless.
@@BojanMilic84 I win.
The horse has been beaten to death, dessicated, and bleached in sun. And yet it still screams 'earth is flat' whenever approached with the stick of knowledge. 😂😂
Partially because it gets revived with the magical carrots of "attention", "grift" and "my religion"
Grift=$$$
Maybe you have missed: Son of the Dead Horse ….
The bones have long turned into dust and blown away by the wind, and they are still beating the spot where it once laid.
and it thinks the government bleached it because it doesn't believe in stars
Dave mentioning Surveyors telling him they wished the Earth was flat because that would make their job easier reminded me of something I thought of many times when I was working in Aircraft Maintenance:
It would be much easier to work on Aircraft if _GRAVITY_ did not exist...🤭
Cartographers would love a flat earth because suddenly we don't need to worry about map projections
Except for those working on Sepecat Jaguars, they only take off because of the curvature of the Earth.
Alledgedly.
@@Katy_Jones I lived at RAF Coltishall in the mid 80's when I was a radar technician at RAF Neatishead. All I know about the Jag's is that they were bloody noisy when trying to sleep off a night shift.
@@Katy_Jones>>>
*"JaGUars"* 🤦♂️
I wish gravity was just electromagnetism. We could have seen flying ironclad warships and space-dreadnoughts if that was the case, since the first electromagnet was invented in 1824.
Imagine not knowing your 10 times table whilst simultaneously pretending you have an IQ of 160.
It's the way they teach kids nowadays
@@Ettrick8it's really not. My kid has no problem understanding the basic concepts that flat Earthers fail to grasp.
Imagine not understanding area of a simple 2D shape and then arguing the shape of the planet and that every surveyor on said planet knows less about surveying than you do
@@Ettrick8Nah, the kids I teah in Year 3 have a better understanding than flat earthers
That's a simple enough mistake to make - see you have to measure IQ from some distance away to get accurate numbers - the feet have to disappear behind the horizon. If you are too close or stand in front of a mirror you get a number that's too high. Likewise if you measure on a flat earth, you don't get that necessary correction for curvature. They measure 160, but it's really only 80. 😝
(SCNR. I'll show myself out now.)
Who is it that said "For every complex question there is an easy, simple, wrong answer." ?
Pretty much all of the flat earth answers are, harder, more complex, and utterly wrong lol.
Henry Louis Mencken:
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
I did.
I'm glad you brought up the corrections needed for the mass of mountains. As I recall, surveying is also how it was discovered that mountain ranges stick down too, i.e. the crust is thicker under mountains. Those errors are less, but are measurable when you survey India due to the immense Tibetan plateau and the Himalayan mountains.
Hey, why don't I get paid off by The Government™ as an engineer? This is outrageous
You do get a kickback but it goes to arm and feed the penguins to stop people going too far into the antarctic, that negates your payment, I have the same problem.too.
Same reason I don't get paid as an Australian, I guess. It's a rip-off
Witsit and Flatzoid together? I was not expecting a Dumb and Dumber reboot so soon.
Just wait for the ending scene, with the bus full of flat-chested bikini babes! 😂
It's actually Dumber & Dumbest.
@Kualinar *Most Dumberest
@@Kualinar If it's a sequel to the current two films, I feel it should be called Dumberer and Dumberest hahaha
My father was a surveyor for 50 years. He always adjusted for curvature. This was his small part of the global cover up and every month NASA sent him a cheque for $100…..honest….
Even at $100/month, imagine what their total budgets must be for the literally millions of people across the globe who they need to pay to keep quiet. No wonder NASA never has enough money for missions. It's all going towards The Conspiracy!
I'm a surveyor, where do i apply for the cover up money? ♥
The "honest" convinced me 😂
That doesn't seem much. I'd have asked for more.
it was not 'earth curve' he was adjusting for, it was Topographical Variations. erm derp, how much 'earth curve' you think you'r gonna get in such Short scare Ranges? use you noggins if your have any. Go back to bed sleepwalker..
First rule of Flerf: Flerf citations always contradict the flerf’s claim. No exceptions.
Fourth rule of Flerf: Every attempt to flerf-explain a phenomenon contradicts flerf-explanations of some other phenomena. No exceptions.
Gotta lie for Flerf.
Finally you got to proof of a globe through surveys! We proved the earth was round using a theodolite in TWO different ways in my freshman year of my civil engineering course
What were those ways? RZA? I have a theodolite and am always looking for ways to play with it.
@@ryherm like dave mentioned, straight line vs arc and height measurement
erm derp. How much 'earth curve' did you um "measure" in such short scale ranges? smh. pathetic you people are.
@@mikeflatbird729 Says the clown who can't explain a sunset without butchering the rules of perspective, and uses numerous childish attempts at insults.
I still have a hard time understanding why Flerfs believe what they see is flat: do they all live in Kansas, USA? Because most places on the planet are, in fact, not flat at all. Plenty of hills, slopes, mountains, valleys. Meanwhile, anyone who takes a plane and gets a window seat on a nice day can _see for themselves_ the curvature of the earth. Who, and what, is really apparent here?
Thing is, Everytime a flattie actually makes the effort to test the shape of the earth, they find out it's a globe and all the other flatties say he just wasn't a real flattie anyways.
It's natural selection for the most dishonest flattie ever.
To your point. We, that is people who are not FN-tards, enjoy the world wide web in every corner of the globe. Is there anywhere we can not reach each other? We turned the world into a village. Now? Our community is not just our neighbors, but can include anyone in the world who is also on the web. The flip side of this coin is that all the Village Idiots? Are now all in the same Village, receiving the positive feedback required to be a part of a community.
This is the fun part. Where does that leave the Village Idiot? A man used to be able to pack his stuff, if anything was left after whatever huge mistake he made, and move on to another place.... a place where it was possible to remake himself... to apply what he learned without the stigma of being the Village Idiot.
Redemption was possible.
But not now. There is no "other village" now.
Humanity has a hole in the very center of it... that hole can ONLY be filled with Community. It's why God is so popular for so long.... because before the net, your community was local only. Sure you can listen in on the radio, but there is no positive feedback to make you feel like you're In.
I suspect that very instant that a flat earther figures out that he is stupid, has been stupid, and is actively promoting a conspiracy to make everyone stupid..... at that exact moment? They have an existential crisis. Is there a community for ex-flat earthers? Maybe that would be more of a support group? Can they make a complete 180 right then and there, and join the rest of us in the appreciation of all the work Science has ever given to us, even to those of us who are idiots? Would we let them?
Will we even allow for the redemption of a flat earther? Because if we do not.... they are only going to remain as a part of a sick cult... but fully aware of how fake their existence is.
NOW! Personally? I choose violence. I refuse to allow a flatearther to speak their BS in my presence without smacking them in the mouth.
I have bachelor's and master's degrees in Civil Enginenering.
I'll never forget the first day of Surveying Systems on my very first day of engineering school, Dr. Williams taught us the difference between "flat" and "level."
Because they aren't the same thing.
We used a total station in archaeological surveys and they do in fact take into account the curvature. These guys are bonkers.
A slightly weird question: can you switch that feature off? If you can, you could survey the same area with both methods and then check which method produces fewer errors. Using the same device for measuring eliminates some systematic errors due to differences in devices (a'ka production tolerances).
@@KonradTheWizzard YES! you actually can! Thats a great idea.
I suppose the question that wasn't answered in the debate is "if the earth is flat, why is there even a need to take flat segments and stitch them together into a sphere in the first place?"
They believe the globe is a concerted effort by reptilians/illuminati/jews/whateverthefuck to undermine belief in God. The flerfs that like to cosplay as scientists with all their experiments are never going to say that out loud, but that's the short of it.
I discovered earth curvature during land surveying on a college field trip . In short, we triangulated a circa 1sq km of undulating land , using highly accurate theodolites, the class split up into 6 groups of 4 and when we transposed our readings onto a hand drawn map. WE ALL HAD THE SAME 'ERRORS'.
in that, our trig points increasingly overlapped towards the corners, because we were taking data from a curved surface and attempting to flatten it onto a 2d plane....we all had a collective 'A-HA' moment at the end of that beautiful week in the Lake District
So surveyors take accurate readings, then add some unneccessary numbers to make it look like the earth is curved, but the readings are still accurate?
according to flat earthers...yes. And we can't forget that they're supposed to *remove* the curvature value, so there's also a chance thingy that they aren't adding unnecessary numbers, but they're subtracting unnecessary numbers according to some 'made up chart'. Which would be equally bad for the accuracy.
The curvature is insignificant at relatively short distances because the earth is huge. You could measure a coastline very accurately with a one foot ruler but it would take decades. Surveyors must logically weigh precision of measurement with the value of the survey. Surveying a parcel of farmland in upstate New York is going to be different than surveying a parcel in downtown Manhattan.
I think the good boy has memorized when you do your outro lol!
He definitely has, he sometimes perks up when I'm editing and I reach that part 🤣
Using history as well as math against flerfers? that's hardly fair, they struggle enough as is
The whole issue with flat earthers is that they look for what the want to hear, take it completely out of context, and throw literally everything else out regardless of what evidence it will tell you.
Did anybody else notice that when, at 23:20, when Dave says "I think this video has gone on long enough," Rusty immediately picked up his head and looked at Dave as if he understood what was said?
I also noticed when he said "Mary-Land" haha. It's ok I don't expect him to know it's pronounced meh-ruh-luhnd.
@DonPusateri He uses standard UK pronunciation. All Brits say it that way, and they were the ones who named it originally.
@spacelemur7955 Perhaps Rusty is the smart one and Dave is purely a mouthpiece? Has anyone considered that? 🙂🌏
Edit: End a question with a question mark (the first one). Standards must be maintained!
@@veivoli _"Perhaps Rusty is the smart one and Dave is purely a mouthpiece?"_
That would explain why Rusty is often trying to break Dave's habit of waving his hands when he talks.
Over 100 square miles... That's 10x10 miles. Over such an area, the difference between flat and the curve of the Earth is often still within the construction tolerances.
BUT... For the flerfs, 100 square miles mean a square with 100 miles sides.🤦🏽
I myself had forgotten how the labeling of square miles works and fell for the same trap. The main difference is, I actually accepted that I'd gotten it wrong, adopted the correction and - and this is the fun part - immediately stopped being wrong as a result.
I find too many people are more afraid of having been wrong in the past than in being wrong in the present, and it just makes them even MORE wrong in past, present, AND future. That's no way to live. The tiniest bit of humility leads to an endless amount of learning. Those who never learn will be left behind by the world around them, not out of spite, but out of simple cause and effect. The same way standing still on a treadmill will lead to you moving backwards.
Which is 10,000 sq miles.
Yeah, when he said that I just laughed. I do railroad surveys that are usually around 2000 ft in total project length and we still apply adjustments for curvature.
it could also be 100x1 miles... It's just stupid to be talking about an area.
@@riluna3695 Agreed, it isn't a cardinal sin to be wrong. Just accept it, learn from the mistake, and move on.
"have to assume the earth is flat" is not quite the same as "the difference is small enough to be ignored".
Former surveyor here. Very familiar with the Leica total stations. Different surveys require different accuracies, and a lot is done with gps now, but definitely have to account for earth curve for some precise surveys. In fact we calculated the curve roughly using a total stations in school in one lab. Pretty funny to hear witsit talk about it like he knows the field lol
The dishonesty of Witsit is amazing. He says over and over that surveyors MUST use plane surveying or we can't build anything, when the book clearly says that you CAN ignore Earth's curvature over shorter distances, if you choose to do so, because it makes the math so much easier, but surveyors are more than welcome to do it the hard way if, for one reason or another, they need to be extremely precise. Nowhere does it say you MUST ignore it or you'll get bad results.
Surveyor school - "So, don't forget that after you make your measurements, recalculate for "R" in order to wink-wink, you know, sshhhh..."
I have mentioned this before on the comments in many flat earth vids. Now I am talking about the UK. Not America. OK, we have Jersey a channel island,approximately 90 ish miles from mainland UK. I have traveled in a small boat from Jersey to mainland UK at night. From Jersey you just cannot see the light from the lighthouse at Portland (Dorset UK) As you come across the channel at some point you will see the “loom” of the light from Portland. Which is well up into the sky,as you gradually travel on,the light comes into view. But it’s still in the sky. Travel on and the light gradually comes almost to eye level. Eventually actually becoming eye level. If this does not signify the curvature of the earth then I have no idea how flat earthers would ever be convinced.
I asked one of them why nobody had ever seen the coast of France from Portland, or either of the Channel Islands... or watched waves lapping on a French beach from Dover cliffs.
They told me to prove that nobody had.
I don't think they want to be convinced, they just want something that gives their lives some meaning, however pitiful.
I recall watching an episode of one of those "modern marvels"-like shows where they were talking about a particularly long bridge. I can't recall what bridge, but I do remember them saying in the show that ends were far enough apart that they needed to correct for earth's curvature. This makes sense because if they didn't then the towers would be leaning and likely collapse.
Whenever you post a video obliterating FE it reminds me of that simpsons scene "stop, stop! Hes already dead!"
Mine is "China? Little help."
Not possible on flat earth.
Also... we do not rely on "planar surveys" for large construction projects. Long Span bridges require curve and air refraction corrections if sightings are over water. This is the same for large-footprint buildings such as malls, distribution centers, etc.
malls and distribution centers huh. how long do you think those buildings are to cover so much 'earth curve'? you people are ridiculous. You only detect and measure topographical variations and elevations. nothing more.
@@mikeflatbird729 so you likely have only been to a small strip mall. Maybe in your trailer park, the biggest building is quite small. Mall of America covers acres just for the building. Giga Factories are even larger. Some Amazon warehouses cover several acres. I worked on a warehouse that was 1,000m x 500m... Thats a kilometer by half a kilometer or in freedom units lots of football fields by not as many.
@@mikeflatbird729 Malls and distrubution centers curve with the earth, Mike. It's not up for debate.We measure the curve. Get over it.
@@EBDavis111 \ what are you smoking? how large and long do you think malls and um distribution centers are? Go back to bed sleepwalker.
@@mikeflatbird729 you are just a parrot with no actual information about the topic at all
and i just realized your name is flatbird. makes much more sense now
Once again demonstrating what "doing your own research" actually looks like. Well done Dave!
Yet again - a flerf thinks they've found a "gotcha" the experts have missed that proves the globe is a conspiracy and then mistakes their "gotcha" for proof the Earth is flat. And also - yet again - the "gotcha" is really something the experts have known about and taken into consideration for literally decades if not centuries if not millennia. You'd think they'd be exhausted from moving the goalposts so often, but stupidity is nothing if not persistent.
Is Witless aware that 100 square miles is a poultry 10x10 miles?
I doubt it.
Unlikely, just like he doesn't realise that 10 miles would only account for 0.14 degrees of curvature. He also seems to think that plane surveying is used to measure the shape of the earth, rather than local elevation and topography.
Failzoid did indeed confirm that he thought 150 square miles is 150 miles by 150 miles. Yes, both Witless and Failzoid really are that dmb.
*paltry
@@Ann_Alglands I think they both know it's not that, but they deliberatly push their gullible market into thinking that's what area is.
In the early 1970s I had the hobby of designing, building and flying model rockets, and was a member of a club. We would fly them for fun, but also in competitions, in various categories, including one called predicted altitude. We measured their altitude using a measured baseline, and placed at each end a basic theodelite type of device. Each was a tripod, a sighting tube with crosshairs, and azimuth and elevation scales. Placing the launch pad near the midpoint of the baseline (but offset a bit from it to avoid a dead spot from either tracker) we would launch and then "spot" the rocket at its peak altitude (usually recovery system deployment). We would take the azimuth & elevation figures, plug them into a formula, and derive the altitude.
Flatzoid, an embarrassment to my country...
We won’t judge you. All countries have their problematic citizens. America has a far bigger problem anyway. They love a cult
Flerfs are the least embarrassing thing from your country.
@robertcatuara5118 that's true... But it still hurts to see this guy online...
My bru, vela.
Don't worry, Flat Earthers are all over the globe. It's just the parasite of ignorance, it's not just your country.
I work in the field of flight simulation. Back in the early days of my career, computers simply were not powerful enough to simulate Earth curvature - and it caused MANY inconsistencies. Only when we developed the capability to simulate first perfectly spherical Earth - then one that follows the WGS-84 specification did we finally get high enough precision for things like modern auto-landing auto-pilots to not arrive over our simulated airfields with their wheels six inches under the tarmac! More recently, I've been working on lunar simulation for NASA's Artemis program - and the shape of the Moon is WAY different - so a whole different set of math is required.
Anyway - if all of this was being faked - then I'd have to be a part of the conspiracy...building all of that extra math - only to turn it off for actual simulation! Since I'm telling you all of this quite openly - and there are no black helicopters circling my home waiting to arrest me before I can hit "SEND" - I think it's safe to say that the Earth is not in fact flat.
That's exactly something someone with black helicopters circling his home waiting to arrest him would say.
@@Qs_Internet_Cafe Can't type much - their quantum aura detectors will...bzzzzzztttttt....
The REAL reason the NSA uses dragnet surveillance!
The conspiracy is just THAT BIG!
DAVE: Regarding your trip to Antarctica, just let me say this quote...
*_"Fly Safe."_*
- Scott Manley
“Keep the blue side up”
- Kelsey 74Gear
"DON'T PANIC"
-Douglas Adams
@@Amradar123>>> DEFINITELY in the 2020s...🤭
@@Soundbrigade Blue side down is how I _roll._
@@Soundbrigade b-but they are flying over ocean!
Once again...
Flat earthers cannot comprehend scale.
flat earthers cannot comprehend anything
@@victorfinberg8595Flat Earth was one of the main vanguards in our current war of knowledge.
Those who seek to hold power want to annihilate the possibility of knowing.
Now, claims of any kind outstrip our ability to discern.
@@antondovydaitis2261 stop spamming gibberish
@@antondovydaitis2261 "war of knowledge". Yeah, Flat earth is on the side of anti-intellectualism and bringing back diseases we almost got rid of. Go eat more lead paint.
@@victorfinberg8595 First, not spamming.
Second, Flat Earth was effectively the prototype of easily debunked absurdity, aggressively promoted by grifters abusing deliberately credulous marks.
It demonstrated that there is no falsehood so absurd that it can't be promoted and abused.
As a SouthAfrican I apologise for flatzoid, I'm so embarrassed
As a human i apologize😂
@jasmijnariel 🤣🤣 true
A 100 square miles sounds like a lot until you realise that the earth has 197000000 square miles of surface area. Of this would be 1/1970000 of the total.
Now take a basterkball, draw an area on it that is 1/1970000 of the total.
Yup. Oh look, circling one of the bumps on the basketball? Yeah that's still too big lol.
@5peciesunkn0wn they would be bigger than Everest.
@@probablynotmyname8521 they are lol. iirc, the Earth's atmosphere and deepest part of the ocean combined are thinner than the skin of an apple, if the earth was apple sized.
The fact, that you have to mention, that 100mi² is not 100mi * 100mi is... hilarious and sad at the same time.
Flatzoid also does not understand the difference between miles and square miles.
This sentence is too long. It could have stopped after "understand" 😅
It may be faster saying what he DOES understand
@@-SaKage Okay, I'll start,
We often joke that flatearthers don't understand 3D. But as this video shows, even 2D is too much for them.
Flatzoid ignores evidence and facts because of his religious faith. It is fairly common among flerfs who believe their respective religious texts claim the earth is flat and unmoving. Sadly for them all the major religions agree the earth is a globe but the flerfs continue to disagree.
Headphone users can slightly hear Rusty breathing through most of the video. I was like "why do I hear snoring? Am I going insane?" lol
Dave you're still here!? 😅 Hurry up and prove our globe earth! Good luck and safe travels in advance.
I feel I must point out that the globe Earth was proven long ago, but amen to your sentiments.
Gotta love the way Witshit cites "all survey manuals" to rebut the claim that earth has a radius ...and then ignores the fact that _all_ of those survey manuals say the earth _has a radius._
Which is it Austin, are survey manuals an authoritative source, or are they purveyors of the pernicious lie? 😅
It's also worth checking out the Great Trigonometrical Survey of India. This also shows the curve, shows that the curve isn't quite a sphere but is an oblate spheroid, and had to correct for the gravitational pull of mountains. Additionally, since these high accuracy surveys do need to correct for gravitational anisotropy from geological features, that proves that the downward acceleration that we call gravity cannot be explained by saying that the Earth is a flat plate that's being constantly accelerated upwards- from different parts of the surface experience gravity at slightly different speeds and in slightly different angles, the disk would quickly break apart. And since the 'constantly accelerated flat plate' model is therefore ruled out and we know that the different parts of the Earth are gravitationally attracted to each other, that opens up the question of how exactly such a flat plate Earth would structurally maintain its shape without collapsing into a ball.
As a Civil Engineering Technologist, I am well-versed in the use and application of various types of surveying. Construction-level surveying works locally based on known benchmarks with known elevations or locally established construction-level benchmarks. GPS is also commonly used, but benchmarks are still required for correction. The skill level of construction surveyors is at the Technician Level usually two years community college or as part of a larger technicians course. The next type of survey is large site surveying, such as a large subdivision. This will require several benchmarks as well as boundary surveying. The instruments used are GPS and Theodolite. The skill level is Technologist usually three or four years community college. The next type of surveying is Geodetic, legal boundary surveying, and descriptions, establishing benchmarks to be used by technicians and technologists, and hydrographic surveying. The skill level is four years of university. Instruments used include GPS, GPS Base Stations, Satellite communications, optical theodolites, and other tools.
you account for topographical variations. nothing more. There is no 'earth curve' in the short scale ranges you worked with. mkayy. period. no ifs ands or buts about it.
@@mikeflatbird729 you are so wrong. What are your qualifications? Fry clerk? Janitor? I guess subdivisions where you live only have trailers on them.
@@John_Mack \ tell me how im wrong? and i am an IT-tech (software)
@@mikeflatbird729 fair enough... IT.. fine.. so what do you know about construction/legal/geodetic surveying? Ever used a Theodolite? Total Station? Level? Ever surveyed a six thousand-home sub-division? How about a long-span bridge? If you are only surveying around your house you don't take the curve into account. One good reason for that is any monuments established in your area are already corrected. Large scale areas such as subdivisions, and business parks do take curvature into account. I know a bit about IT but not enough to even comment about. I can actually program in Cobal but only up to the year 2000. I am way too rusty having last used it 24 years ago and it's pretty much a dead language. So I would never question someone with more knowledge about IT. You should stay in your own lane, or go out and get an education from a qualified college or university.
@@mikeflatbird729 So you are an expert in programing or code writing for computers? Just how would that relate to surveying, to which you are now trying to add to your resume?
Guess what? My father was an army cartographer while in service. He did just that - went into the field with teodolite, took measurements and used them to draw maps for army to use. We can safely assume his superiors wouldn't be very happy with his work, if he was not precise and exact. What my dad did when I introduced him to the concept of flat Earth and their "arguments"? He just laughed. So, yeah - I have first hand confirmation that this argument is bollocks.
I have spent over 10 years working for Surveying companies as a 3D Laser Scanning Specialist, Yes... the curvature of the Earth is factored in to all of the calculations for large area coverage.
So the flerfs are saying surveyors use flat earth except for all the times they use globe earth. That makes sense. s/o
A nice example are the pillars of the golden gate bridge. The pillars are definitely not parallel and this of course is built this way because the curvature of the earth.
If I could make everyone understand one thing about engineering, it would be that we don't have or need perfect measurements, calculations, and models. There is uncertainty and error in all engineering, and how much we can accept depends on the application. We take the easiest adequate solution to the problem because its not worth the extra effort to get a "perfect" solution when a good enough solution is available. That applies to surveying as well. Over a certain distance, assuming a plane works well enough for most applications. How long that distance is depends on how good the solution needs to be.
Flat earthers seem to enjoy proving themselves wrong.
That annoys me to no end. I work with photogrammetrists and if you want to obtain the kind of 3D reconstructions you see on Google earth you need to keep into account the Earth's curvature. It's not a secret, it's not an assumption, you can work with UTM coordinates but you'll accumulate errors in the 10s of centimeters very quickly. The assumptions you can make all depend on the precision you need.
FLERF: "Do your own research, it'll show the Earth is flat!"
Dave: Does extensive research, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Earth is a sphere.
FLERF: "Nuh uh!"
It might be instructive to put a 100 square mile dot on your globe. It'd be about half as big as the Isle of Man. Going to need a 4K display to notice it at that scale
Videos like this are why I'm subscribed, I like laughing at how dumb flat earthers are, but what I value more is furthering my understanding of how the shape of the earth affects things and I love that you go into detailed explanations of why the flat earthers are wrong so I get to learn some of that stuff. Mostly it is basically what I had been assuming or had figured must be the case, but it is nice to have that stuff corroborated.
That was such a great sponsor segue. Basically, "Why do I keep responding to these people? Because I keep learning every time."
Excellent science education.
Surveyors have known about curvature for centuries. The Public Land Survey System started back in the late 1700’s realized that. The United States is divided into hundreds of squares called townships from Ohio westward and every 4th townships was adjusted to account for curvature called a standard parallel. Surveyors often refer to Mount Rushmore as the three surveyors and the other guy. The General Land Office survey of the U.S. is a fascinating study.
If you are standing in the middle of 100 square miles, then it's 5 miles to the edge of the boundry box for that area. What do you need a telescope for?
You'd need that telescope to look into the window of that neighbor who.... you know. Important stuff. It's very scientific. 🤪
It's funny how confident flat earthers are about geodetic surveying. Geodetic surveying measures that vertical is no parallel across the surface of the earth. Which suggests that the earth can not be flat. And then the meridians converge, both north and south away from the equator, to a single point in both directions. Which suggests the earth can not be flat.
I love how flerfers talk about what others do (surveyors, pilots, civil engineers, scientists, …) but none of them do it themselves or ever had a job as one of these professions. I would love any of these clowns actually try to become qualified enough to apply for these jobs!
It's funny to see those two flerfs talking authoritatively about a surveying, a field they have zero training in. And when Flatzoid was talking about 120 square miles, he was treating it as if 120 square miles were 120 miles. No. To get the radius of a 120-square-mile area, you divide it by pi and then take the square root! That's only a 6.18-mile radius. I was yelling at the screen: "SQUARE miles, you idiot! Not miles! It's SQUARE miles!!"
Their system is to glance over some articles in order to mine for small parts that seem to confirm their bias.
The figure for 100 square miles is a circle with a radius of 5.65 miles. At that distance from the centre point the drop is about 255" based on 8" x 5.65². So still not insignificant in reality but Dave needs to do a correction somewhere. It seems like a problem until you work out what effect that will have on a large building site and the answer is not a lot unless you are building really really high and then bridging between the tops of your really really high buildings. I calculated that the angular difference between two verticals at opposite edges of that circle would be about 0.17°.
Flatzoid is utterly dishonest and a grifter
At this point, I’m starting to think people like FTFE are grifters too. They know the people they’re debating are wrong and/or lying, but they choose to make a career out of debating them for content, and YT revenue. It’s not a legitimate interest in countering flerfers, it’s entertainment for clicks - on both sides.
@@akastewartthats precisely what it is, glad to see someone else sees it for what it really is.
@@firecrackerg60 But is it really? They "see" it?
@@akastewart
Of course it is. They spend four hours in the middle of the night talking to complete science illiterates going over the same old sh!te over and over again. A 'debate' from five years ago is virtually the same as one done last night.
@@akastewart How is that even slightly like grifting? They know that the other people are wrong and... correct them. Whether their videos were made for entertainment or any other reason has nothing to do with them being a grift; a grift is, by definition, DECEPTIVE, and so stating the truth explicitly cannot be a grift.
Dave, you are not wasting your time making these videos, because through your videos, I learn so many interesting stuffs about Earth, space, photography, etc.
Checking the Wiki article on the Humber suspension bridge states, " The bridge is designed to tolerate constant motion and bends more than 3 m (10 ft) in winds of 80 mph (129 km/h). The towers, although vertical, are 36 mm (1.4 in) farther apart at the top than the bottom due to the curvature of the Earth." The world isn't flat
That's just the Illuminati lying to you for control.
Former surveyor here. The entire us is broken down to 1x1 mile "section"s. Every so often we have a goofy shaped section to account for curvature. Iirc its every 16 sections.
Austin says "we" like he's actually built something at least once. He hasn't. Maybe "we" is supposed to mean LEGO engineers.
Thank you. I am a qualified surveyor, but I haven't been active in the profession for a while. It was a nice nostalgic episode for me. And there was also something in there that I didn't know (or had forgotten).
This is pretty cool as it means any flat earther can go and do a trigonometrical height measurement of a distant object and account for refraction only in their calculation. Then they could go and do a physical measurement of the height of the object and on a flat earth, the trigonometrical calculation and the physical measurement should be the same. Have any of them tried this?
I bring this up every time, since this should also apply to the sun, moon, and stars in their model.
Of course, the results they get are completely inconsistent, so instead of admitting they’re wrong they just deny math.
I have to disagree. I don't think most flerfs could do this. It starts with this problem: "What is trigonoma...thingy and why are there so many weird numbers involved? Can't we just assume this Pi thing is 3. Or maybe 2, that's easier. ... Could we have some real Pie instead?"
Now it's all lasers and a digital readout, which is boring, but I once got to use an OG theodolite with the prisms that make the picture line up only when you adjust it correctly. It was a long time ago so I don't remember the exact details, I just remember it was really cool to get it right.
Did they line up horizontally or vertically? :D Horizontally-lining-up is what's used in convergence range finding, whereas vertical is stereoscopic range finding for warships.
@5peciesunkn0wn This all happened around 25 years ago, so I don't remember everything, but the guy showing it to me must have demonstrated both, because I remember there being four picture tiles and having to line it up in both directions at different points. What they were doing before I was there was measuring out terrain for a new building and there was a second guy with a little shiny target on a stick standing on the other side of the empty plot for the first guy to aim his theodolite at.
Oh, Witless also thinks that runways are perfectly level, doesn't he. No, Witless, just, no.
I have video of an aircraft taking off from Leeds-Bradford Airport, and many videos of take-offs and landings at RAF Linton-on-Ouse, and neither of those runways is level.
Then there's the Altiport at Courchevel.
@@Sableagle How strange; Leeds Bradford is how I know that runways aren't built "level". That thing is practically on a hill.
@@ReValveiT_01 It's the hump in the middle that's really eye-catching.
100 square miles sounds like a great distance but most understand it’s only 10 miles across.
I does take a mental square root calculation: which is not trivial in the general case.
Two types of flat-earther:
Streamers who lie for money
Viewers with single-digit active braincells.
Bob the science guy said this years ago already. They ones who sell t-shirts and the ones who buy them. 👍🏻
@horisview that's a great way to put it, haha.
Even the moderator is laughing.
You know. I can't find any flat earthers on Bluesky. It's like a haven from stupidity.
Don't let confirmation bias get you. They have plenty of their own types of stupidity.
Flerfs don't use Bluesky, they have Firmament
100 square miles area is only a 5.64 mile (9.0767 km) radius circle centered on on the measurement taker
so anything within 5.64 mile can be measured planer because the correction needed is so small that it is pointless for the most part
however after that the difference becomes almost logarithmic which is why you need to use the geodetic adjustments
Plane surveys are not taking uncorrected 5.64-mile sights - they are taking multiple shots creating a mesh network where each sight distance is a few hundred feet. The calculated dip/refraction correction on each sight is below the measurement error. The key is for plane surveying, when you establish a new sighting point, you should traverse a level with similar foresight and backsight distances so even those very small measurement errors cancel each other out and the difference in correction for each pair of foresight/backsight is now well below the noise threshold so much so that it can't accumulate.
When you get beyond about 10 square miles the spherical excess of the figure you are trying to average out gets too big to ignore and starts messing up the whole system's accuracy.
In short, you can measure spherical excess doing long distance triangulation with a theodolite. The sum of the internal angles is not 180 degrees as in a planar triangle but always slightly more as in a spherical one. I think I was 11 when we covered this at school....
Ramsen built the first accurate theodolite and they were used in high precision geodetic surveys carried out in the UK starting in 1784 which produced the first accurate maps.
The Earth is locally flat but globally curved, i.e., spherical. If only they took the time to explore geometry and topology a little, they might hopefully see how easily the whole flat Earth issue falls apart.
For the 100 square miles, use a circle with a radius of 5.64 miles with you at the centre. The effect of curvature in any direction is now even less than the calculations that you provided.
True, but possibly not relevant, as surveys typical measure the distance and/or terrain between two positions. They won’t include the radius behind them in the same positional measurement. This wouldn’t meet the 100miles2 threshold.
Still, it’s useful to illustrate how ‘small’ 100miles2 is.
The fundamental misunderstanding (or intentional misrepresentation) that flatzoid makes is that plane surveys are completely accurate at short distances, when in fact they're not accurate at any distance, but the error over a small distance is low enough that it can be safely ignored for all but the most critical measurements.
the evidence is unambiguous.
flat earthers DELIBERATELY get everything wrong.
This is so ridiculous. If the earth was flat, and the sun and moon are local and just moving around over it, we should be able to see them from anywhere at any time, even if, as they claim, the sun shines down like a spotlight. Yet, at sunset, we see the sun go below the horizon but stay the same size. If it were moving away, it would be getting smaller and smaller yet still be visible at all times. I don't get how this is not obvious to flerfs.
23:00 "...then it means that the Earth is flat and every single survey done with those tools is wrong..." Rusty perks up, visibly concerned.
Well, I suspect many popular flat earth content creators are just in it for the money.
120 square miles is about 11 miles by 11 miles. The rate of curvature in 11 miles is 11/69ths of a degree, well within floor/surface/slab tolerances for most applications. It just is irrelevant for non critical applications.
When they said the thing about 100 square miles I just knew they had to be selectively reading. I work on subways and the earths curvature of ~6ft/mi has to be taken into consideration at much shorter distances than 10mi. Only reason you don't consider it for buildings and bridges is because building footprints are tiny relative to curvature, and most bridges don't span long enough for it to matter... But there are plenty of long bridges where it does matter.
These people are just role-playing in a game in which they are the smart guys. If they actually wanted to know the shape of the planet they could just spend a day surveying a one mile transect of the surface of a water body.
If they were really keen they'd fly me to Copenhagen, get me a couple of GPS trackers and rent a canoe for me for a week so I could take those trackers on a water-level tour of the coast all the way around the island, or buy me a canoe and get me the trackers so I could take them on a tour of the UK coastline, but not a squeak from any of them when I suggest that.
Flat earthers arguing that surveyors only account for earth curvature sometimes is like young earth creationists citing scientific measurements of "only" 50,000 years proves a 6000 year old earth.
I encourage people to look up in a dark sky and realize that the stars (including our Sun during the daytime), our Moon, and planets appear to move in arcs, except for the North Celestial Star, Polaris, which with the unaided eye does not exhibit movement. The arcs that we observe in the celestial objects mimic the radius where the person is located on the radius of the Earth. What people may not realize is that, the Sun's apparent arc movement is different than the other stars, because we orbit the Sun and not the other stars. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Flat Earthers love to cry about how you can't use things in the sky to prove the shape of the ground. They only say that because the evidence is devastating to their claims.
@@synthetic240 And it's usually followed or preceded by them wittering on about the Sun being close...
@@Katy_Jones and then they can't provide an answer as to 'how close' lol.
@@5peciesunkn0wn Well, in terms of the Universe...
What exactly do you mean by "the Sun's apparent arc movement is different"? It's exactly on the ecliptic and over one day the arc is pretty much the same as all ecliptic stars. Only it changes location on the ecliptic slightly from day to day. The same is true for the planets and our moon (with some slight deviations from the ecliptic due to inclination of their orbits).
But you have a very good point here: get a star map and a basic astronomy book, observe for a few nights over a couple of months and be amazed - those pesky globe and heliocentric models seem to work for some odd reason.
If only Cavendish could have come up with some way to test that.
* /s
You can measure deviations between plum lines in as little as 1 kilometer with precise equipment. If you trust the equipment, you can actually show deviation over just 90 meters! It is SUPER small, but NOT ZERO (which would be required for flat earth)
There is also surveying inside mines, where a geotheodolite is often used. Which is a theodolite using a gyroscope to determine the true north.
Flatzoid. Nice one, Dave. Very appropriate about Weiss and his fraudulent app.