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Was Brushy Bill Roberts in the Rough Riders? | New Evidence | Spanish American War
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- A new discovery conclusively disproves a theory that Brushy Bill used the alias William S. Murphy but new evidence calls into question the status quo.
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The head tilt , the shoulders and pinky ring certainly remind me of the Famous Billy the Kid Tin Type. Hard to ignore the similarities
I'm here searching for photos information of Bill Roberts with pinky ring, and that guys wearing.. Pinky ring lol
Thank you so much for your research!
I appreciate the fact that you’re willing to accept new evidence and apply it whether it changes the outcome of your findings or not. To me that makes you far more credible than those who just stubbornly believe something because it’s so called “historical fact” and display the “how dare you doubt history?!” attitude. The truth is for the open minded. I believe that you, Morrison, Hall, and others have proven Brushy Bill was The Kid. I was a disbeliever once too. I hadn’t looked at the evidence presented. Shame on me!
Appreciate the comment. Its all good. We may find out one day Brushy wasn't the Kid but after 20 years we keep getting the same nonsense that doesn't compute. Its easy to fall into it as a religion and the temptation to root for our team vs. the truth but that's where discipline and integrity comes in. I have always said I don't care if Brushy was the Kid or not but I object to the misrepresentations about the story. Just tell the truth and all will be good! :-)
@@aliasbillythekid agreed!
Did he mention being stationed in Tampa during his time with the Rough Riders? I live in almost the exact area Roosevelt and the rough riders were stationed in, a baseball throw from USF where they stayed (when it was the Tampa Bay Hotel) the records there and at City Hall may have something about it.
In the book by Teddy Roosevelt, he says a "Rattlesnake Pete" gave him the bronc buster bust.
Very interesting!
Thank you for another great video! The whole thing is fascinating 👍🏼
Although this has already been alluded to by another viewer//comment, I think it is somewhat telling to look at the bottom photo showing the 4th man from our right and compare his stance to the classic Billy the Kid photo. The angle of his stance, the tilt of the head, the somewhat dropped shoulder, The general slope of the shoulders, and the general pose itself reminds me of the 1880( ? ) Billy the Kid photo. Also, consider the estimated age of the man in the bottom photo. He looks as if he is about 40, plus or minus a year or so. Two of my sons are, at this time, a similar age. One is almost 40 and the other is on the edge of turning 39..........
I'd like to know how many WIld West Figures were captured in a photograph with a gambler's ring on.
Seems to me it is a rarity.
I'd take a second look at the "Buffalo Soldier" candidate, as I heard one claim Brushy had some indian blood. It's feasible he was 'lumped in', preferred their company or was their wrangler if mounted.
Kind of a funny coincidence that Billy the kid was pictured with a pinky ring on his left hand and the guy that looks like Brushy is the only soldier wearing a pinky ring..
i think the person saw the info about the Billy the Kid tin pic, them were apparently reverse image based on info about the gun in the picture. and they probably assumed all old pics were therefore reversed.
Probably so
Short guy could be "5'8" by necessity just to be there. It's been done.
1880 San Patricio NM Territorial Federal Census enumerated John S Murphy (?) who was recovering from a Gunshot wound; still possibly Billy or No??
You will get the truth. It will happen.
Bushy Bill was Billy kid same built wounds
Another easy way to determine if a photo is reversed or not is to look at the buttons of the shirt or pants. Invariably, they are on the right side for men.
There is also a Joseph S Murphy who could have been Billy the Kid
A.C. Fletcher is the one that is definately Brushy. Storm is taller than Brushy.
I think that more than likely, old brushy bill really was billy the kid. His story adds up.
Or he knew Billy or someone close to Billy.
@@terry2315 He was either Billy the Kid, or Billy the Kid's shadow.
I agree if he wasn't billy he knew billy after he was supposedly killed by garret .But there's one thing im certain and that is brushy was and looks like a true gunfighter look at his hands he never slouched he was always to draw them 6shooters.Thats my opinion
The belt buckle they are wearing is a known size. With that measurement you can determine all other measurements. Most likely all of them are wearing boots that have a high heel of about an inch and one half. This is easy stuff to figure out. Plus, there is no way of telling if any of the names are correct. Someone in the layout room had to match names with photos without any ability to go back to the field and make sure the names even match the photo. About the best you can do is match faces with Brushy.
Also we can match posture and gait. Good comment
im noticing something about these photos that most are not seeing ,the two men on the end have diferent names, stewart ,woods ,and the same two in the bottom pics are labeled ash ,and stewart. they seem to be eihter twns or brothers ,doesnt anyone but me see this ?
If he took his cousins name, there's more evidence he is Billy than there not him. Brushy knew details about Lincoln County War and Billy's life that no one knew at that time unless they were there and experienced it. Many points Brushy knew has only been found in the last decade. How would Brushy have known unless he was there during that time. Garrett's book has been debunked as filled with made up stories. I doubt everything you're trying to say here because for one. you want to rewrite a book, that means you want to make money off it. Only in the last decade has that knowledge come out.
Brushy Bill has a squared off chin and a relatively short nose. Billy the Kids chin was more pointed and a longer nose. Bone structures like your lower jaw do not change with age. Brushy Bill was not Billy the Kid.
I understand how someone could think that but the experts I have personally spoken to that do this for a living say thats not the case. Angle of the head and mouth being open as well as weight gain account for perceived differences but I respect your opinion.
You don't even have to look at the letters to know that the photos aren't backwards. Just look at the way the shirt button (male style) and the flys on the pants. Also, as a retired photographer who still photographs with large format film cameras utilizing technologies similar to what these pictures were made with, there's no reason that these images would be reversed if these are from prints. The original film or glass plates would have reversed images but not prints. Daguerrotypes, which were no longer used when these photographs were made did produce a reversed final image but, again, that was long before these pictures were made. The photograph of Billy with his rifle, holster and revolver was displayed in reverse for many years before anyone noticed the obvious fact that the Winchester's loading gate was on the wrong side and that image was reversed due, probably, to the technology of that earlier time. Fortunately, that error was discovered
Personally I believe it possible that the medal in the trunk came from either Buffalo or Pawnee Bill's Wild West Show because they both did historical recreations of San Juan Hill, etc. If Brushy did work for both men it could be possible he was one of the recreators, and had a prop medal. 👍
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
Sir, the medal was actually authenticated as real. Morrison had that and the Anti-Horse Thief Association medal authenticated.
@@americancitizen7937
Considering nobody has seen the medal in decades (far as I know) the only thing I can conclude is that it was a highly accurate prop because Buffalo and Pawnee Bill were sticklers for authenticity in costumes, etc. Now while they did use real Rough Riders in some shows, the bulk of shows were reenactments with cowboys, etc. Then again, I don't think there's ever been proof beyond Brushy's word that he ever worked for Buffalo or Pawnee Bill, so it's just speculatory benefit of the doubt that some of what Brushy said was true.
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
It was authenticated at the time by government. I have the copy of the letter from Morrison.
@@americancitizen7937
Unless I saw it personally, etc I'm sorry but I question any and all claims by Mr Morrison on behalf of Brushy Bill Roberts. He tried earnestly but all of Roberts possessions and notes, etc needs to be evaluated by experts today.
Does anyone know where the trunk even ended up? Or the medal? Or the scarf? Or the life story Brushy wrote out on paper prior to meeting Morrison? Etc. If it's at the museum in Hico, then it's their duty to have a reputable university analyze the evidence. If it's among Morrison's estate, then his kin needs to allow it to be analyzed. Etc.
The problem when it comes to Roberts is multiple "investigators" like Tunstill, WC Jameson, etc making several claims contradicting each other as to the tapes, pictures, trunk and it's contents, etc. Somebody has to separate the nonsense from the truth.
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
@@HomicideHenry Although when it came out that the Kid was still alive in the 1920s or 1930s, Pawnee Bill went looking for Billy so that seems to indicate to me he wanted to see his old friend. Since he would not have known him if he died in 1881, what's that about?
The first picture you put up with brushy he is posing almost exactly the same as in the Billy the kid tin type photo , coincidence I think not, I really do believe that brushy bill was Billy the kid, when you weigh up all the evidence………
Dan if you could get a couple of people from all the states maybe they could run down stuff for you in there state to help you get info from there colleges or museums in there area.i know your a one man investigator but more eyes would help you run stuff down .I think some of these paper could be miss filed in a different locations in the paper work.thanks for the up date its alway fun to hear new info maybe your getting closer to the truth.
This, a compiled list of claimed and suspected names Bill went under (Including pseudonyms Billy The Kid used like Antrim) I'm fairly certain people digging through local records in places he may have spent time, would kick up something.
Like I told you on awaited poster it said wm William I think was the name have you ever heard that name before or is the poster fake.
@@eddieboulrice6791 I don't believe they had many wanted posters with images on them back then like in the Steve McQueen TV show. Being serious, not sarcastic. I don't know the one you are talking about but William William sounds like a pretty common name but it seems like every outlaw had an alias back then anyway.
If you look at the zipper of the pants or the shirt you will tell if the image is reversed
pretty soon brushy is gonna be jesse james next lol
The claims of Roberts are very specific. The people that try to twist his claims into something ridiculous so that the people who are too disinterested to look at the actual evidence can reject them are amateurish and dishonest.
Face recognition was done on the show mysteries at the museum with host Don Wildman that proved brushy bill was not Billy the Kid
I was on that show and can say with authority that is not the case. The reason is the gentleman changed the photo prior to comparison. This was intentional to balance out the show. It is, after all, a "mystery". Great show, great people. Its entertainment.
Its funny that you said that would make him born in 1862, It has been found recently that they now beleive that Billy was born in 1862! Just a fun fact!
There is no solid evidence that Billy was born in 1862. Where did you get that info?
@@kenwheatley1781 drew gomber
@@kenwheatley1781 Writer Drew Gomber!
Personally, I believe he was but I don’t think that’s him in the thumbnail. He doesn’t have a very angular face like Brushy/Billy.
The photo on the bottom at the 2 min mark, there is a fella on the right there who resembles who I think could be Brushy/Billy. The guy I’m talking about is standing with his arms folded and he definitely has an angular face.
I never really "got" that position but when I was making the video I did consider the side view photos of Brushy and wondered if that's why the people were saying that. Anyway, my own position remains that the two people I keep calling Brushy are likely him. Facial recognition supports this as highly likely. Disclaimer...there are coincidences. That's why I have always used "possibly", "likely", etc. At some point that is understood...the book has been out 9 years....but in conventional speech you may not hear those disclaimer words every time because it becomes redundant but I think I'm pretty careful with it.
Okay, thankyou. You had me worried, I thought you had flipped or something. The point is once again somebody is willing to lie to try manipulate you and people honest like us.
Im committed to following the evidence and so far the vast majprity is on the side of Brushy Bill.
@@aliasbillythekid Me too!
You're gonna love this one. I recently met John Fusco who wrote Young Guns. I just pitched Young Guns III to him the other day.
YOUNG GUNS III
directed by Peter Jackson
written by John Fusco
and
Michael Charles
includes original music from Jelly Roll
"Hico, Texas 1950.
In the final year of Brushy Bill Roberts (Emilio Estevez) aka Billy the Kid, bespectacled probate investigator and lawyer William V. Morrison (Chris Evans) sits for morning coffee at the old man's side. Morrison takes an affidavit of Bill's claim of being famous outlaw "Billy the Kid", meant for legal pardon from the governor of New Mexico.
Bill even shows Morrison that he can slip handcuffs just like the Kid used to, in getaways from the custody of overconfident lawmen.
🌵
Then.
Billy further wittles his life's story, bridges the gap between New Mexico 1881, when with the sympathy of lawman and friend Pat Garrett- he faked his death, and Cuba 1898 during his late 30s when he was a Rough Rider under the command of Theodore Roosevelt (Jesse Plemons).
There, Bill outgrows his former self at the sweltering Battle of San Juan Hill as he forges new friendships in sweat & blood with other Rough Riders that remind him of "back then", but more mature, more adult.
Friends like buffalo soldier William McBryar (Michael B. Jordan).
🌵
Afterwards.
Billy the Man elaborates into the year 1910 and 1911 when in his 50s he was recognized as "Billy the Kid" by a younger gunslinger, notorious Mexican revolutionary fighter Pancho Villa (Diego Boneta), then recruited to help defeat the armed forces of the corrupt President Porfirio Díaz. The Battle of Ciudad Juárez is heavily charred into Billy's memories, with hundreds of guns blazing!"
you forgot about perspective. some people are forward and some are further back
Not at all. Not nearly enough distance to account for the little short guy
What your face book name.i will follow it to get more info.
Group is aka Billy the Kid Brushy Bill Roberts
Thanks Dan that was fastits 640 in the morning I've been up sence 2am reading some of your post I like rereading stuff to see if I missed something keep bring us new dots to connect.
@@eddieboulrice6791 Love finding new information! Thanks for the support!
That's what he wants you to do. The FBI. CIA and Interpol use facial recognition and they did the tin type of Billy and Brushy Bill Roberts photo and they've concluded they're of the same person. I trust their analysis before this guy here who wants to write a book to sale and make some more bucks off it.
on the bottom photo the one on the far right looks like the guy in the card playing photo!
Does he look 90yrs old?
Subjective but yes. Lots of examples of very spry and lively 90+ year olds. I've spoken to two in the past month that could pass for 70s. One is the owner of the ranch where Killers of the Flower Moon was filmed. Don Decker. Lots of other examples.
Hard to say- I have known a guy that I always thought was a few years older then me in my 50s, I attended his 89th birthday party yesterday, he danced and sang the entire day while after a few hours I was tired of it and wanted to go home- not everyone lives the same life day to day.
I love your history presentations but please don't bash the critics for they strengthen the mind through forcing investigation into certainty.
No issue with honest critics but the ones that intentionally decieve and falsify the historical record I have no time for. Dishonest people.
What is your Facebook page?
facebook.com/akabillythekid/
Private group is here facebook.com/groups/2239422342755032
😆
Brushy bill is not billy the kid, he has married certificates and census records from day he was born in late 1870s, it would be cool if Billy lived to old age, but he didn't, his tall tale life is just too extravagant and he contradicts himself with his story's lol obviously everyone will believe what they want and that's the fun of it, God bless yall
Thanks for the comment Joshua. The census records apply to Ollie Roberts and would have no bearing on someone who assumed Ollie's identity, just as someone else claiming to be me or you wouldn't change our records either. What you will see in the historical record, however, is that there are anomalies in Ollie's record after about 1910 when Brushy takes his identity.
Wrong he was.
This claim comes from people who say Brushy was Oliver P. Roberts. Brushy's family had their genealogy written in the family bible, William Henry Roberts was born 1859, like he said and Oliver P. Roberts was born 1878 and was Brushy's cousin, like he said.
Sometimes Brushy went by Oliver L. Roberts and the two signatures are very different.
There's zero evidence he was born in 1878 and he wasn't Oliver P. Roberts
Not to mention people had worked with Roberts, in the late 1880's and Oliver would have been a child at that time
Hey Dan, Indon't think the guy labeled as Wood in the top photo and as Wood in the bottom photo is the same guy. The reason I said this is the guy named Wood in the 5 person photo has a drop right shoulder justblike Brushy had and just like Billy the kid had. The guy labelled Wood in the 6 person photo does not have that dropped right shoulder. Just my opinion, but the gentleman jn the 5 person photo labeled Wood is much closer in appearance to Brushy and Billy than the other gentleman.
Hey Clyde. Are you saying the two people identified as Brushy are not the same person? If you look at their hands, they are the same and he is wearing the same pinky ring. Interesting that at first skeptics (not you) said those two people were not the same but now they are saying they are the same but they are William D. Wood. I still believe they appear to be Brushy Bill Roberts.
I think they look similar, but not exactly the same. Just my opinion and I am probably wrong.