'The Most Widespread Miscarriage Of Justice' Mr Bates vs The Post Office | Good Morning Britain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ม.ค. 2024
- ITV Drama 'Mr Bates vs The Post Office' began airing this week. The Horizon scandal, described as “the most widespread miscarriage of justice in UK history”, resulted in more than 700 post office operators being prosecuted between 1999 and 2015 for theft, fraud and false accounting because of faulty accounting software installed in the late 1990s.
We speak with Alan Bates, founder of the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance, who is portrayed by Toby Jones in the series, about his experience and fight against t the Post Office, resulting in a £58 million settlement for postmasters.
Broadcast on 02/01/24
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Alan Bates should be running this country such integrity
He's undoubtedly an exceptional man but there's always one comment that is so absurd as to be laughable.
@@interabang ?
I'm afraid his honesty and integrity mean he will never get into politics.
Imo Mr Bates is an incredible human being. Not only should everyone who suffered a loss or conviction be fully reimbursed and compensated. But everyone that was responsible for the aforementioned being dragged through the courts, should be sacked, held publicly accountable and punished to the full extent of the law. How that woman at the PO received a CBE is a joke.
Fair play to Mr Bates for refusing an OBE. I really am a Royalist, love the Monachy and loved our late Queen. But the honours list is a complete joke, especially this year.
I absolutely agree with everything you say. I’m sicken by the terrible injustice. If the people start a cloud funding I’ll certainly contribute..
What did you love about he Queen?
Too many companies have far too much power and are engaging in extortion. Its time the authorities actually did their job in regulating and not just provuding the illusion of regulation
@@Mariamsadventure
Her:
Dedication to her job.
Hard work, right into her late 90s!
Attitude of always doing 'the right thing'.
Dignity.
Caring for her family.
Loyalty to the British people.
Relationship with 15 Prime Ministers.
The honours list is no joke. It is a dreadfully archaic, completely rotten system and should be scrapped completely.
Genuinely amazed Paula Vennells was a former priest. Amazed she didn't burst into flames upon entering a church!
Truly evil human being. Standing up and preaching to people while taking part in acts that led to death and destruction of lives. Sickening.
@@isking1715sounds about right
She is a complete hypocrite and should herself face prosecution. The honour she has received should be immediately rescinded.
Surely this goes with the territory. Religious people believe in things even when there's zero evidence in support of their beliefs, or there's evidence that contradicts their beliefs. Facts don't seem to matter.
@@bookie5667 Very good point!
Not one member of senior management at the Post Office has suffered any sanction for knowingly implementing the flawed IT system and refusing to take any action to correct the matter, even after they knew there was something wrong. Scandalous.
MADNESS!
"Scandalous"
or as the courts would say "perfectly reasonable conduct in a plutocracy".
Outrageous..! 😮
Outrageous..! 😮
That's what happens when you put a woman in charge. No doubt to fill a quota.
SHAME ON BRITISH POST OFFICE!!! SHAME!
Bravo Mr. Bates.
Fujitsu and the Post Office are the only criminals in this scandal and this case should not be brushed under the carpet
I totally agree......
Incredible that the likes of the Post Office and UK civil service enter into contacts with the likes of Fujitsu that allows them to take no blame whatsoever when the systems they design are not fit for purpose. Many civil servants are totally unqualified for working on contracts with the result that those contracts end up full of loopholes, which companies like Fujitsu are then able to exploit.
They should still be held accountable for telling lies and perverting the course of justice
Not true. Who arrested these poor people?....who investigated these alleged crimes?....who interviewed them and built a case against them?...how did these cases end up in criminal courts with the threat of prison?.....I suggest the police and cps have a few questions to answer too. All paid for by our taxes!!
The other criminal element are those politicians who were contacted about Horizon problems but did nothing.
What’s MOST SHOCKING is these innocent people are STILL waiting for justice!!!
I think that’s why the ITV put this documentary out. August is deadline for appeals. Many will never get heard so there had to be a shock tactic
And the guilty people are also waiting for justice.
Yep. That's another reason why it's so obvious that this computer system was designed in such a way that the responsible parties could cover up and avoid being held accountable....EVEN to the point where sorting it out would be a sadistic nightmare, thus preventing the scheme's victim's compensation.
Without this drama the establishment would have tried to delay until more died. Its actually quite a common tactic with these giant organisations who have bottomless money to use lawyers to delay. Police forces use it against litigants all the time.
This programme will help paula Vennells lose her CBE. The fact she accepted it shows her arrogance.
She's shameful
And she is still involved in the investigations 😮
Perhaps some of the postmasters should pursue a civil case against her. It wasn't simply incompetence on her behalf, it looks like she deliberately covered up the facts.
There is a petition to remove her CBE!! Sign it!
Agree! I’ve signed the petition to remove the CBE given to her.
Astonishing story. Well done Mr. Bates. You are a true modern day hero.
Lets not forget the four poor people who commited suicide over this scandal, and the Post Office hounding them for the error in the PO accounting IT system, which management knew about and tried to cover up for years!!!!
Those at the top need to be held accountable and criminal charges brought!!!
Well done for Mr. Bates for pursuing this and standing by his principles (and refusing an honour)!
Manslaughter prosecution should be asked for!
What a phenomenal person. Congratulations to Mr Bates who deserves a knighthood frankly. As for Post Office - despicable corporate behaviour against those that kept it going - testimony to the current state of the UK. We need more Mr Bates and less Paula A (who should be in jail).
A knighthood? No. He should be given a peerage, so he can represent us in the House of Lords. They gave a Damehood to that banker woman, so why not Lord Bates? !!
These are the people who deserve honours, not MPs or sports stars, real working people who make a difference
Congratulations to ITV, for all the hard work they’ve done producing this incredibly moving series, this in my mind is REAL television
Good point about compensation. These people need paying back the money that they paid out of their own pockets. In effect, money that the Post Office STOLE from them. After that, they should receive as much compensation as they can for all the trauma they suffered.
"... MONEY THAT THE POST OFFICE STOLE FROM THEM ..."!
I agree
sunak has already suggested £600,000 each. in my view its not enough.
10: 50 is the hardest hitting part of this interview... "4 suicides" as a result of this miscarriage. The fact that Paula Vannells was earning well over six figures per annum, and blatantly lying to everybody, whilst many, many innocent victims had their lively hoods stolen is bad enough, but to find out that people were pushed to the ultimate end is heart breaking. Not only does the money need paying back, I think charges of gross negligence manslaughter should be considered.
I think that will happen
@@clivebernath3490 WHEN?!!
No one will be accountable for this its management government managed, so No one takes the blame for it, One point, where is the money that Horizon claimed.
Is that the woman with a dog collar on preaching?
Must face charges
I watched the entire series on itvx and cried in sheer anger at how callously everyone was treated. Somebody gave the go-ahead for access to accounts and should rightly be prosecuted alongside Paula Vanelles for theft, manslaughter and perverting the course of justice. Alan Bates is a legend ❤
I think the people in charge were ignorant and misinformed, trusting sources who were equally ignorant.
This is very different from the volkwagen emissions scandal.
@@fredfred2363 Surely you jest. This was premeditated and intentional. There's not way a computer system would be so cleverly put together to allow the theft that took place for SO MANY YEARS resulting in the prosecution and conviction of innocent lives. It was obvious on its face from the first week that it was designed for theft.
Why are you and the other tax payers fronting up the compo money?
The Post Office is a disgrace and the Head of The Post Office should be held to account. Starting with the CBE being returned. I would imagine that software has caused significant harm in other sectors, this won't be the only sector. Let's hope those responsible are brought to justice. Over 20 years of suffering for some of these poor souls. Many have died already (60), suicides and stress. The sad part is that this is ongoing. As usual, the Goverment's lawyers are holding up proceedings. It's an absolute disgrace and I'm so annoyed and upset by this.
Paula Vennells has many questions to answer.
Promoted beyond her abilities to fill a quota no doubt. Same as Liz Truss.
Not returned, taken off her.
This whole ordeal was evil. They wrecked the lives of many thousands of people, stole their money, and then hounded them into the ground.
One of the many shocking aspects is that the PO can conduct a criminal investigation independently of the police. How does one ensure the process is not therefore biased? Well we already know the answer to that, don't we...
It's also shocking that the judiciary didn't seem to realise that there was no evidence of any crimes!
A legal reform is required
Many bodies can prosecute aside from the police RSPCA for example. However, all should be held accountable the same way. The judiciary has a lot to answer for (though it won’t, and the media will not mention it! certainly not msn anyway) there were certain processes such as disclosure which were wavered by some of the judges, and they also took the electronic data from Horizon as competent without question… the judiciary has no business self regulating anymore, but it will continue to do so unfortunately.
@@lewismacdonald1516
I am aware of other that anybody can bring private prosecutions, however the point is that the PO were doing so with the evidence being their *own system* as you point out.
@@JackBurton-qp4hc ah yes! I suspect they would have classed it as a third party software, not sure if any other organisation used it? Again the judges deemed it safe and accepted its evidence- if it had been allowed to be scrutinised in court all that time ago, it may have come to light.
What a wonderful man, well done sir.
Truely shocking that Senior management at the PO and Fujitsu were well aware these poeople were innocent, but they decided that the ruination of hundreds of lives was acceptable collateral damage in order to protect corporate interests.
Fujitsu should be prosecuted too
The true dangers of corporate power.
Can one ever trust the post office again, not until those complicit are jailed.
Windy,It would seem the man at the top is to blame
How much, now, for a stamp ¿?
a truly inspirational man with a heart of gold, more people should be like him x
toby jones captured him perfectly in the show...lovely man
Another question relating to this scandal is who backed the Postmaster's litigation? The court awarded the JSPM's case £58 million but they were told only £12 million would be left to share, between 550 litigants, after the backers got their percentage!! Who would take that much of a cut from these poor people? This whole criminal scandal by the so-called justice system is shameful.
It was a litigation fund called Therium. There are several auch funds who are prepared to finance litigation, and who take a percentage if they win.
It's a bit like the "Angels" who finance films and theatre shows, or Lloyds members who underwrite insurance..
Well legal fees are extremely expensive, nothing is for free
This is why people back down ..fear of legal costs…because it costs to go to court…
@@jacquelinearcher1158That just proves justice is for the rich. It allows those with the money to bully and abuse those less well off.
The legal costs for the case should be paid by the government (yes I know it's taxpayers money) but the Post Office who were wholly owned by the government stole the money from the sub-postmasters and "absorbed" it into their profits which actually benefitted the government as they owned it. I suspect, as the Horizon problem affected so many people and over such a long time, the money the PO stole probably amounts to a similar figure to the legal costs. Of course, this won't happen because this government are just as corrupt as the Post Office and Fujitsu - they are all up each others @r$e$.
Such a shocking and wicked miscarriage of justice to hard working, decent people!
The helpline told each of the accused that they were the only ones accused of theft!
The bosses of the Post Office are to blame for the suicides and lives completely ruined!
I found myself deeply upset by the ITV drama every night!
The writers and actors have been wonderful!
The fact that Paula Vennels got a CBE is disgusting!
Alan Bates has been an outstanding and remarkable campaigner for justice for the sub postmasters!
This whole case is appalling on so many levels. I truly hope that all the Post Office management who knew about this, lied about it, blamed innocent people and ruined others' lives are held fully accountable and jailed. I know at least one of these innocent people took his own life as a result of this appalling campaign of blame and bullying, how on earth can he or his loved ones ever be compensated?? Some things are beyond being compensated for! It makes me sick with anger that the people who are ultimately responsible are still just going about their lives whilst others have been left with their lives in ruins. 😡
Such a sad story about how innocent people suffered so much. I've watched all four episodes and this is a fantastic drama, one of the best programs I've ever watched
Totally agree we watched the first episode but could not wait to watch the follow on so we had a late night and watch the other episodes on ITV X. My blood pressure went up.
It's heartbreaking to watch this drama, which is if anything underplayed. That so many people suffered so horribly at the hands of people who have never been brought to book is incredible and a travesty of justice which I thought could not be possible in this country.
I cried at the blatant disregard the PO Management had for the Postmasters who were clearly at the receiving end of unscrupulous people. Thank goodness for the HERO Mr Alan Bates🌟
The software/system should not have gone live without a thorough and rigorous testing system. As soon as the complaints come in the Post Office should have looked at it and did something instead of arrogantly brushing it under the carpet or lying about it.
post office want cover up view point broken i.t system
Just blown away by this drama. What an amazing man who took on the post office. He deserves so much credit for his amazing work. If the drama is accurate in that he has a partner, she has also been amazing in supporting him.
Jujitsu have got a lot to answer for, I watched the whole of the programme on ITVX last night and was in tears at the impact of the lies that the Post Office said that these people were guilty, apparently over 200 people were jailed!! This needs to go out more to the general public, I think they kept it quiet over the years 1999 to 2015, a terrible scandal that needs to be known more in the world!!!
Fujitsu* 😅
@@Slickosl10 yes with an F
Good for him for not accepting a tainted gong. They are now seen as shameless croneyism.
What a disgrace! The Post Office should publicly apologise to every single person affected by their incompetency
They don't even want to pay the full compensation!
Senior management should be in prison.
This drama has brought the injustice done to these people into sharp focus and raised its profile. I was vaguely aware that several sub postmasters had been wrongly accused of false accounting but had no idea of the scale. This just shows how effective the post office has been in trying to bury this scandal.
It is very hard to understand why senior executrives of Fujitsu and the Post Office are not on trial. Even harder to understand why some have been given honours.
Fujitsu, like many other government contractors, will have made sure that they were absolved from any blame when the systems they were paid handsomely to design didn't live up to expectations. The lawyers of these private companies run rings around civil servants when it comes to contract law.
Close all Post Office accounts if you have any.
Paula Vennells needs to be held accountable and stripped of her CBE to start. Where’s the petition? Her ordacity masquerading as a woman of any faith is ludicrous. Hopefully she will receive her sentencing/penance on judgement day 🔥
Thank goodness for people like Alan, Bob and those others who saw through this corruption.
I can only offer sympathy and empathy for those that have suffered at the hands of these free criminals.
ceo of post office has cbe over broken i.t system ( lady who own £36k post office who help some old lady was anger ex post office ceo paula vennells hand back cbe)
cover up i.t system non working as ceo ex post office hand back give cbe
Yes, I have signed both of them now.
Put a woman in charge what do you expect.
@@TheDavecroft I can agree, women bosses are far more callous than most male bosses. They can be ruthless in their approach and lack any sign of humanity or empathy. I’ve met a few and their sense of power over takes them and it’s their way or the highway.
However Fujitsu a multi national company, the sixth largest in the world,, they supplied the system that failed and then lied about the access to it, they could have owned up. They should be a focal point of this, if, we are proportioning blame.
This computer system dates from the early 1990s when it was originally called Pathway, much later renamed to Horizon. The single most interesting thing I learnt was that back in the 90s all involved knew that it was fragile and risky. The Post office were not keen to take it; Fujitsu obviously did want to sell it to them, as that is their business, but even they were aware that there were plenty of issues to be resolved first. Tony Blair personally overruled them all and made the decision, following a meeting with the Japanese ambassador.
Wow… I don t think I ll ever look at the post office in the same way again
Must admit that I have never watched anything that has caused so much anger and revulsion in me.
I am afraid that whatever you now believe that the Covid lockdowns were a similar travesty for many many people and a significant contribution to our present economic woes.
All based on faulty/maladjusted computer models.
Wait for it!
What a sweet sensible man, whistle-blowers are brave
A large corporate organisation not listening to its workforce ? Who would have thought.
This has me in tears what a friggin grave injustice 😢
Please watch this fantastic drama. It's beautifully written and wonderfully acted.
There are several people who really do belong in jail over this.
Most of whom I suspect have already disappeared from public life.
But of course they are probably now "untouchable", just like police officers who take "early retirement" and can't be touched for their misdemeanours whilst they were serving.
And yet another example of wealthy, powerful people blatantly lying - and facing absolutely no consequences. Dishonesty for personal gain needs to be made a criminal offence, covering business people, CEOs and politicians of all levels.
Another example of what happens when you promote a woman beyond her capabilities to fill a quota. For other examples see Liz Truss, Teresa May, Diane Abbott, etc.
@@TheDavecroft But not Thatcher, hey Dave?
This country is rife with corruption
What an extraordinary human being Mr Bates is. A beacon for justice. ❤
They were told that they were “ the only one “ . This is how the establishment scare you . The establishment know that when we all stick together that is when we are at our strongest. Stick together everyone ❤️
It's called divide and rule!
The drama on TV did an amazing job at highlighting the suffering and scandolus miss carnage of justice.
I should imagine that the longer it takes to payout compensation, the more, those responsible for delays get paid.
The behaviour of the Post Office is outrageous. I watched the whole thing and was left feeling extremely angry about it. It beggars belief!
The senior management of The Post Office at the time that this occurred needs to be held accountable and criminal charges must be brought against them. This is so scandalous and scary that this happened within this country and if no one is held responsible for this, who is to say that something else like this could happen in the future. Alan Bates is a legend. A real life hero. No-one has mentioned Fujitsu role in all of this in this broadcast, and why they were playing around with postmasters accounts remotely. Why did they do this and what was in it for them from the post office, surely they should be held accountable for their actions too!
Absolutely! So much evil and dishonesty with the whole lot of them. Disgusting!
Absolutely
Waiting for prosecutions of the Vennells team.
The sub-postmaster at my local postoffice was wrongly accused of theft and had to do community service. When it happened the guy was heartbroken, he was the centre of the village life and nobody could belief he could do such a thing. Years later it was finally proven he was wrongly prosecuted and he is trying to get compensation. Growing up myself and my siblings would deliver the papers before school, this was in the early 2000's.
236 people went to prison. 🇬🇧
@@andrewdaley5480 I know its disgusting. The Post office along with Parliament (I believe the current Lib-dem leader is responsible) knowingly let hundreds of hard-working well-respected post-master's have their careers, lives and reputations get destroyed.
What a brave and humble man.
The Government's role in this dreadful disgraceful scandal highlights everything that has been allowed to undermine communities from lack of policing to poor GP & Dental services ,building on farmland to immigration & it is the arrogance highlighted by Vannells salary & award ,what happened to corporate responsibility ?
It was a brilliant drama…I hadn’t appreciated just how widespread this had been and how many people were damaged by it all; even more scandalous that the people affected haven’t been compensated yet or that they had to pay court costs. Why weren’t Fujitsu also held accountable? It was their software. And how does Vennells sleep at night … esp as a vicar! Why hasn’t her award been removed? Appalling … ITV drama really took the bull by the horns and make the country sit up and take notice.
Amazing drama. Alan Bates deserves a knighthood and Paula Vennells should be stripped of her CBE
I can remember reading about this I am horrified that amount of staff could be treated so badly.
Well done ITV for doing this story. I’ve been following this for years.
The top man of Itv the now was one of the heads in the post office during this scandal.His name was not mentioned once in this drama .I wonder why?.He has tried to keep his own nose clean.
How is it that the post office ruthlessly went after innocent people for it's mistakes yet not one is held accountable for their actions? I think it shows the very real difference between big business and ordinary people. If we steal we are sent to prison no ifs or buts about it yet they can take everything from us reputation included and receive nothing but a profit and protection. The sad thing is there is not one single thing we can do about it as the type of campaign the post office waged is nothing more than a business tactic to them.
My husband and I were listening to this, while driving to Cornwall and my Husband, being a retired Electronics Engineer, said, why hasn't anything been mentioned about the Company that design the equipment. Surely they should be held responsible as well.
That poor man, but also others that have suffered so badly.😢
You need to realize that companies like Fujitsu have top legal advisors drawing up these contracts, as opposed to the Post Office and Civil Service, who often just use unqualified clerical staff in their contract management departments.
From e Z pocket cams pre dig to systems installation
If she was truly sorry she would hand back her CBE. Not that it would help the victims but it would be a indication that she accepted her guilt.
Nobody from Fujitsu going to jail fpr perjury ? No prosecution going to jail fpr misrepresentation pf fact in a court ?
This guy should bring a private prosecution against the people who jailed him wrongly
The scandal of all of this is that the Post Office got away with it..... and is still protected
What a gentleman and Toby Jones portrait you well.
Wish you and all sub postmasters the best and you all deserve an OBE your service to your communities.
I hope you get justice and bring the CEO to account.
Not sure how much money should be paid out to each of you, but start at 2 million each .
You know the public are behind you and lets hope the program will put further pressure on this weak, unsympathetic and heartless government.
You have all had your convictions quashed or nearly.
You can all hold your head's high .
Paula vennells, lets hope you are never to be a CEO in any company or incharge of any person, you are a disgrace.
how broken that the post office ceo paula venalles get cbe should get big zero for all the mess with i.t system flawed give back cbe
Alan Bates was offered an OBE, but refused. He more or less said that he couldn't and wouldn't except any gong while people were still fighting the fight.
I believe he did get a pride of Britain award though. Special Recognition. Well deserved.
There has been serious harm caused to thousands of people directly and extended families.
There is sufficient evidence for Paul Vennells to be charged for perverting the course of justice.
This needs to proceed immediately and not wait any longer for the enquiry to be completed.
Didn’t the managers in the post office pervert the course of justice by lying and covering up information which led to some people being given convictions and jail sentences? And to think the postmasters have not been properly compensated yet whilst managers have no doubt had bonuses.
It's the same with Fujitsu, perverting the course of justice. 'Losing' the signing in book for starters!
Funny that POL had the money to pursue endless legal action, but not to pay out more compensation or even the money they owe people.
and the ceo of the post office got a gong from the government and is training to be a vicar and has said she's not ashamed of anything.
Wow is that right ? I would love to know what parish she will be in......,
She was a vicar but resigned, under pressure, in 2021
@@janetsavage8114ah ok, glad but still not enough
@@aethellstan I would agree entirely. She should have stepped down from her post herself and returned her CBE. Her lack of compassion given her role as a minister is astounding
This to quote Mr. Bates, "MADNESS"!
Is anyone really surprised that this happened. Successive government's and big businesses have been doing this kind of thing for a long long time
I think you've just realised that big businesses run this country, not the government we think we elect to do the job!
'Private Eye' magazine has reported on this for almost 20 years.
Yes they did a great piece on on it. We should be relieved it's finally hit the national news
When the miscarriage of justice is so large, why should it depend on Mr Bates dedicating his life to get justice ? Shouldn't our taxes be sufficient to ensure the public are protected from such abuses of power?
This series has angered me so much.
How unjust and people have been given accolades from royalty.If there is justice those at the top will receive the same treatment that a lot of innocent people had.
those poor people,its unreal this can happen!,i hope they all get justice in some way,no amount of payouts will ever repair the damage the post office has coursed,shocking!!!
I cannot watch it because it is too horrendous of a situation😢
It's very disturbing.
And these people LIVED it.
It is important that people do watch it because it shows how scandalous it was and justice needs to be done for the victims and criminal proceedings need to be brought against those who tried to cover it up
Please watch it
What we have are the cover ups of the cover ups!!!!!
Total corruption from the very top and I bet the people who are responsible don't go to jail!
Anybody with a brain larger than a pea couldn't possibly believe that 700 or 800 people were complicit in fraud. I have to say that I'm not surprised at the at arrogance, ignorance and superior attitude of the post office. The lack of urgency to get people remunerated is staggering.
These are people's lives they've wrecked.
Shame the media didnt make a big thing of this at the time. It might have been looked into earlier and lots of lives may not not have been broken.
Private Eye have really tried to bring this story out for years. Real journalism still working hard. The Tees Valley Freeport scandal will be the next one.
Too many royals to look at.
A big applause to the people who made the film and the ITV for agreeing to broadcast it.
Ive not been so angry over a situation in many years. I so hope that ALL the victims and their families are compensated fully asap.
How disgraceful and evil.
The worst thing ever is suffering an injustice.
My good god, the gready higherachy, I am so violently disgusted at the post office, its the beurokracy over and over again. Thank god for you Mr Bates
Watched this programme, what a nightmare these unfortunate people were caught up in!
But the way the Post Office went after these Postmasters was mind blowing. Even when they eventually got through the PO defences, they were financially blocked by extortionate court costs, none of them had the financial wherewithal to equitably challenge them.
Will the PO just keep kicking the ball out the park until they have run out of claimants.
Shame on the PO, the only thing that has been done expediently so far, has been to prosecute innocent Post Masters.
Shame on the Post Office!!
wow makes me feel sick what the postoffice did and Paula Anne Vennells got a CBE. it should be removed.
Alan Bates is a wonderful human being.
Guy
I wonder what the profits of The Post Office have been of the years since the beginning of this terrible tale. Because all those who lost their jobs, jailed and used savings etc should be compensated properly for the damage they did.
This film is so hard to watch , I experienced the frustration and hopelessness just watching , why people had to endure this and are still enduring the injustice of a system of Government that has no respect for the victims . I hope the film exposes this injustice and that the blind shall see .
Mr Bates is a hero and having watched the ITV series I hope all the victims get the compensation they deserve and those responsible face justice and accountability for the pain and suffering they caused.
I watched the three part dramatisation on STV Player. Absolutely shocking conduct by the Post Office.
Those poor postmasters.
I can not believe how the entitled few think they can play judge jury and executioner the directors at the post office should be held accountable and locked up.. but of course this will never happen as they all stick together and lessons will be learnt .. makes my blood boil ... So sorry for the many victims 😢
Well done to Alan for reporting this ax
Watching episode 2 & getting v v v v angry.
Reason as to why citizens must not let those in power get their hands on ECHR.
Surely the people from the Post Office and Fujitsu who testified on oath in the criminal trials are guilty of perjury. It makes no sense that the government is still giving contracts to Fujitsu after this scandal. Does our Government really care so little about taxpayers money.
I'm not even remotely British but this story is so moving and horrifying at the same time that I feel like it's happening to my own family.
Never give up Alan
I am proactively removing any post office products I have. I am also seeking new ways to send post. What a vile outfit.
Royal Mail different to post office they were separated years ago , but a disgrace it still is .
what a man!, I sat smiling and with a tear running down my face at the same time, listening to him, he should sound more shouty and bitter than hes does, so composed and a naturally good human being...a community legend.
This series has shown the power of TV in bringing to the foreground what many of us already had an idea about.
From the beginning it had a sickening effect, certainly on me! But I guess that was because we, the audience, already knew the extent of victim numbers. What we perhaps were unaware of was the crude attempt to hide the fact of multiple reported issues.
Anybody worth their salt in IT would immediately have concluded there were serious flaws in the system because so many SPMs could not possibly have turned rogue overnight and it is entirely incredible that the helpline were not reporting case statistics upward.
Hopefully this series will expedite the distribution of proper compensation on top of the return of money illegally demanded of victims. Those that conducted this scandal must surely now be properly held to account.
"Anybody worth their salt in IT would immediately have concluded there were serious flaws in the system because so many SPMs could not possibly have turned rogue overnight and it is entirely incredible that the helpline were not reporting case statistics upward."
Presumably the Horizon system was brought in to replace manual or less robust systems (see what I did there?) that could be hiding fraudulent transactions or innocent mistakes made by the SPM or their staff. Those IT staff who genuinely did not know about the flaws would be led to believe that these issues have always been there and the new system has done exactly what it was designed to do, found them.
You are correct that it is not logical that, "so many SPMs could not possibly have turned rogue overnight", but it is logical that a new system designed to do exactly that has found those who have always been doing it when the old system was open to abuse/error.
As for the helpdesk, perhaps the tickets were closed with the reason given as user error, because the system didn't make mistakes, did it. ;-) No reported system errors meant no investigation into the issue, because it did not exist...
@@JackBurton-qp4hc Did you work in IT? If you did you'd know that a new system of that scale would be monitored extremely closely by a competent IT shop on rollout for issues that did not surface in testing.
I ran teams delivering world wide "just in time" operations. Believe me when I say the testing of the newly developed systems were incredibly rigorous and changes always had a tried and tested back-out plans attached.
It emerged last night that IT staff were fire-fighting live systems and it appears that not only was that fundamentally bad practice, the teams could not cope. They were most likely making a bad situation worse!
Alan Bates, while probably having no real insight himself, was spot on when he asserted the Post Office went for the cheapest option! I am, of course, assuming the dramatisation is accurate!
@@JackBurton-qp4hc With the concluding episodes and documentary do you still have doubts?
@@realcapitalist1462
Doubts about what?
I replied to your initial response but that has mysteriously disappeared! I may have misinterpreted your response but you appeared to be playing devils advocate and mounting a defence of the Horizon system?
A bunch of shysters.
No integrity, no compassion, no shame, no decency.
Revolting organisation.
The GPO has been both arrogant and ignorant for decades. Personal experience of growing up with parents and grandparents running a suboffice.
An absolute disgrace this was allowed to happen and still people have not been repayed for money owed .! 😢
The bosses of the royal mail should be held accountable. They lied, would not accept blame. Start paying the competition those people deserve.
Royal Mail is not the Post Office. Two separate entities
Competition?
I have been following this on a BBC podcast over the last year prior to the ITV drama which brought it to life for many of us. The effect on the innocent victims is heartbreaking, a terrible injustice and so prolonged. There is still no effective redress for these good people.