Today's video discusses the pros and cons of various wood and paper beddings. And addresses a LOT of misinformation in the pet community about them! For part one of this series check out this video: th-cam.com/video/J-0kTwwGpOg/w-d-xo.html
I feel like paper has a really awful reputation, when the issue is paper pulp bedding like carefresh. Paper pulp beddings are dusty and they soak up urine but then they stay wet, giving bacteria the opportunity to turn urea into ammonia. Ideally, a good bedding is aerated so the urine dries quickly to reduce bacterial growth. Also the study at 9:18 shows that cell-sorb plus, a paper based bedding, had less ammonia than pine. According to what I can find through scientific studies, paper beddings are typically the best but the best paper products are not available in pet stores. I honestly think there's a huge business opportunity if anyone wants to find a scientific supplier. Alpha-dri paper bedding seems to be an industry standard in scientific research and I would LOVE to buy some as a pet rat owner. That being said, paper pellet beddings are great (although expensive) at reducing odor. I use them in litter boxes. Also eco bedding is fantastic for nesting boxes, though it provides no odor control. Thankfully my rattos don't poop in it!
Yes! That is very true. A lot of beddings used for studies simply aren't available to the pet community. Which is quite a shame. We do also have to consider than in studies the cages are very different than our pet cages as well. There's not bars and items that hold ammonia like hammocks and toys. Most rats in the scientific community have bedding, and a hide and sometimes a chew toy item. That's it besides food and water. They are also typically housed in singles or pairs where we house in pairs or more. Our housing is going to cause a lot more issues. I do have an acquaintance who manged to order a bag of cell sorb plus from a scientific supply website and was going to get back to me about how it worked out. (it would be anecdotal but still interesting) it looks so very very different than what we are sold. Little small squares of bedding all exactly the same size and shape. Absolutely nothing like carefree or it's cousins. For litter paper pellets are amazing( and what I use as well) because it's changed more often than bedding. Less frequent changes can cause mold to grow. 😕
@@RatRandomness Please let me know how the litter works out! I tried ordering some but the shipping would have been insanely pricey. Do you know the website your friend ordered from? I've worked in a lab with mice, and it's interesting because I found their setups caused more issues than the standard pet environments. Lab mice are kept in such small containers that urine built up fast and the whole facility stunk. Pet mouse cages are much larger and urine is more distributed so it can evaporate, preventing bacteria from turning urea into ammonia. I think similarly for rats, large bar style cages with hammocks are much better ventilated than the small bins used to house lab rats. Though the industry standard is moving to extremely well ventilated environments, which makes me very happy. Also I haven't had any issues with paper pellet bedding getting moldy! Wow. I think my rats just poop in the litter, and choose to pee elsewhere. I can imagine it would get gross if they peed in it all the time!
I honestly do not know. We communicate through a discord server and their life has been very busy lately. I'll ping them as find out how they liked it!(and see of they can share where it was ordered from) I know some labs have those cage setups for rats where the air is changed via a closed ventilation system. (I may have the wrong terminology) but I'm going to assume that isn't the norm. I've seen some references to more “enriched” cage setups in labs for rats as well. Though they would be considered severely lacking by pet standards. But one was within the last few years so I'm hopeful there will be more push towards better standards there too.
Thankfully my experience with moldy litter wasn't in the cage! I changed the litter and had it in a bag in my rat room. But a kiddo movedit and then I forgot it. It was only a few days but it got quite fuzzy. I'm glad I had changed to fresh litter when I did!
THANK YOU So Very Much for this video, I've been researching bedding & litter for my boys❤️ & as always You have helped me so very much with this very informative video!! I just started learning & Your Vodeos Help A LOT!! Thank You again!!☺️
BTW, I just bought some aspen bedding (with the help of another video from you🙂) , it says "low dust" BUT when I put some on their floor & started spreading it around I noticed a lot of Dust laying on their floor. Is that normal??
The dust you can see visibly is too large to enter the respiratory tract. There is a study linked in the doc that has that info if you want to ready it. :) but if not dust you can see isn't the issue. It's if it “mushroom clouds” like cat litter, that's what you need to worry about. because those particles are super small as have to group together to even be visible. Keep in mind when you change any litter or bedding it's very normal for rats to sniffle and sneeze or two weeks give or take as they adjust. Just like new home sneezes.
Would love any suggestions other than the wood shavings - I’ve tried both pine & aspen w my rats & hamsters & while it works great for them, it triggers my asthma quite severely. At first I just dealt w it & took allergy meds & inhaler before cage cleaning, but as time went on, my reactions became more severe. And I can’t clean their cages properly if I’m dead, so it’s a whole problem.
Theres a few other options but not many. The next two options are hemp and equine cardboard. Both are harder to find in the US, but with some looking you can find them. And they are both pretty pricey compared to aspen or pine. Tractor supply or other farm supply stores are the best places to check for that. Dont be afraid to email or call before driving out.
I want to start using pine bedding in the lower part of my CN cage but i'm concerned about mites. Is it best to freeze the pine bedding first and for how long
All rats have mites just as people and other living creatures do. The issue is that during a change they can get stressed, groom less and have a flare-up. I've really only heard of mites from paper, but it never hurts to freeze your bedding though! I don't anymore, but when I did I froze overnight at least.
I had one of my back up vets tell me I should switch from Aspen to paper bedding because one of my boys had a mite problem and she said it could of been the bedding (it could have been but it could have been just THAT BAG) I did what she said (also treated him with revolution) and his mites went away but a different boy got a bad URI! We treated him for it but then it came back a week later smh. I switched back to Aspen and back to my regular vet and while this boy might have chronic UR issues he doesn't have as bad off a time with my less dusty Aspen compared to the very dusty, Clean and Cozy paper
Sadly vets arent trained on husbandry beyond what they learned in vet school. They often give improper diet and housing info. Mites can happen from so many things! Rats naturally have them(as do all people and animals) but during stress (sickness, intros, loss of a cagemate, etc) they dont groom themselves as often and the motes go crazy causing issues. They can come from bedding too(i see it so often in new owners who got paper bedding) but its often something else too.
@@RatRandomness afterwards my boyfriend and I realized that it was probably stress. The boy who got mites had also been bullied to the point where I had to separate him from his brother because his brother injured him and so his brother was returned to the breeder AND he got 2 new cagemates within a couple of weeks. He gets along with them great but it was definitely a stressful situation for him
Fine for hamsters. But not for rats. Paper bedding has the worst ammonia control, and commonly has issues of causing mites flares. Based on lab test results i personally wouldn’t ever use paper bedding (like carefresh or similar) at all. Aspen is a much safer option all around.
@@RatRandomness thank you for your answer. Do you think aspen and paper miced would be ok for a dig box? I'd love to give my boys the opportunity to make tunnels but I have a boy that is sensitive to coco coir.
In an external dig box outside the cage and changed often it would be ok. Hay is often used mixed with aspen or kiln dried pine for structure too. Personally i just don’t think the paper is worth buying at all. But if you all ready have it then use it up!
That does make it tricky. If your on facebook id check out the naturalistic and bioactive cage group for more ideas. Theres different kinds of hay or straw that may work better and lots of other suggestions there too! Just searching the group will give lots of ideas!
I seem to be allergic to the paper bedding I’m using when I went to get the rats I was holding them my allergies were fine but the min I got bedding now holding them sets me off and makes me mega itchy should I switch to pine plz help
You should switch to pine or aspen. But allergies are usually due to urine on the rats paws and tails. You can wipe them with an unscented baby wipes before playing with them and it can help a lot!
20 years ago, any rat group you went into would unanimously tell you not to ever use wood shavings of any sort, and using it was basically abuse. They would all tell you that fleece and paper pulp bedding and fleece were the only safe options. Now everyone hates paper bedding, and we see people using wood shavings again, and considers paper pulp to the ultimate bedding. I have a few thoughts on this... First of all, I used paper pulp exclusively. My rats never smelled. I also never encouraged them to dig around in dirty cage litter by hiding food in it. People changed their bedding regularly, whether they used wood shavings or paper. Would they have gotten stinky if I waited over a week? Sure, but then again, the idea that someone might 'fluff' once a week and changed it once a month a month was unheard of. Dust, urine, and so forth are all going to accumulate in bedding as the same rate no matter WHAT you use. Just because wood shavings still smell nice after a week doesn't mean the wood shavings are less dirty. Plenty of people where report that they have allergies or asthma that are triggered by wood shavings. If they are bugging people, they are DEFINITELY bugging rats.
You’re spot in that things have changed! It's wild to me as well. I became a rat owner when fleece was the only bedding people used. I had a group so poorly bred they couldn't be on anything else. During those 3 years we started realizing we had access to science. And we could read studies. And info changed. We now know that paper bedding doesn't absorb ammonia. It doesn't help it dissipate into the air and it was discontinued in studies as a result. It's not a hate it's just a fact of the bedding. I don’t think anyone should wait a month to change bedding. Thats a recipe for sick animals. At least I hope they wouldn't. But bedding should be able to last a week. That's a completely reasonable expectation in a pet home. On the hiding food, that's also a case of info changing and pet owners realizing that this is fun and enriching for our rats. It's something they would do naturally (scavange and forage for food) and it's even being done with dogs and cats now. We are learning more every day and with that info gets updated and changed. Allergies can happen, but we have to remember not everyone or every animal has the same allergies or even allergies at all. Some dogs can't eat chicken, but we don't say all dogs should avoid chicken. Some people can't digest gluten or have cats as pets but that isn't the case for everyone. It doesn't seem like you watched the video based on this comment. If I'm wrong my apologies. But I would encourage you to watch the whole video and I think you'll find some neat and eye opening info! 🥰
@@RatRandomness Thank you for your response. I assure you that I did watch your entire video, though that apparently did not come across in my comment. I mostly wanted to express an opinion based on trends I have seen in rat care, and not specifically information that you provided. First of all, I am glad you do not recommend the idea that bedding can be maintained by fluffing it once a week and changing it once a month. Unfortunately, there is at least one prominent TH-camr giving pet care advice who said that she does exactly that when going over her cage cleaning routine. As for the claim that paper bedding is no longer used in laboratories, I was curious and did some research. It is untrue. Paper bedding is still used extensively in laboratories. Merck Manual of Veterinarian Medicine (whose contents are based entirely on the most up to date research), recommends cellulose bedding (paper). Their reason is that wood shavings contain volatile compounds that have been proven to effect liver function, reproductive health, behavior, immunity, is more likely to harbor more bacteria, and cause other issues which effect health and research. Also, I found a study that discovered that although wood shavings are good at dispersing cellulose, pelleted bedding, like what many people use in their rat's little pans, works better than shavings. And while it is true, not everyone who has allergies is allergic to bedding, the essential oils in bedding don't need to cause an allergic reaction to negatively affect the health of someone with a sensitive respiratory system. Now moving on to advocating for enrichment. I do agree (and as a former psych major who did actual scholarly research on the subject) know that enrichment is important for the mental health and development of all animals. This was known 20 years ago. I have also trained a dog in tracking, and hiding food is a major part of the early stages of training tracking. BUT... people who train and provide training/enrichment for cats and dogs DEFINATELY do not hide the food in the place where the animals defecate. So once again, thank you for reading my comment, and delivering your well thought out response. I do stand by what I said. I haven't watched many of your videos yet. I do respect the amount of research you have put into this but remember that scientists don't limit themselves to the findings of one study. It is also important to remember that studies are performed under extreme circumstances (like putting bedding in a very small animal cage, and not changing it for two weeks).
I don’t think i was clear in my meaning by “discontinued” and for that i apologize, i meant specifically in the ammonia studies the bedding was discontinued due to being considered unsafe. You are right that it is still used in labs however labs clean their cages daily, and often use special filtration systems totally different than a pet owner will have in a home with a wired cage. It’s also a very different kind of bedding entirely. You can order it from lab supply stores but it’s far far more regulated and dust extracted than what we can buy in the pet store. So comparing it to the paper carefesh bedding is definitely not the same. Its not even the same as the pelleted kind for litter as its smaller and made to all be the same size so its more like a paper version of shavings in shape and texture. Due to the cages being cleaned so often that is why it can work in those settings. But in pet situations it isn’t practical or even good for our rats to clean that often. It causes rats to over mark and make the ammonia worse. Litter needs to be changed every few days at best to keep ammonia in control and balance cleaning so rats dont overmark. Its also quite expensive. I do not agree that pelleted litter is a good bedding for rats due to all that unless theres no other options and the pet owner is able to clean it many times a week. And thats just not the majority of rats. The oils in the beddings are going to be the same levels when kiln dried as paper. So comparing that isn’t really valid in this instance. You might want go check out this video where i address a lot more about pine specifically and compare it to studies on paper bedding: th-cam.com/video/0D6-uC5TzN0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ftJ33EJ4MnEOeqHv And comparing a sensitive person to one who isn’t is not valid. The same can be said for our rats. Rats that are well bred wont have issues with good bedding like pine or aspen. Rats that are poorly bred with respiratory issues are not the ones that I am talking about in this video. I myself have had rats who couldn’t be on ANY bedding. That was my first mischief and experience with rats. It was awful and sucked. However that isn’t the majority of rats. And it’s a disservice to treat them like that is when we have so many studies showing that better bedding is better for them on many levels. And not dangerous for the overwhelming majority. I cant possibly address every rat with health issues in a video. Nor would i consider myself qualified to do so since i am not a vet or the caregiver for that animal. My videos are directed towards the “average rat” and owner. As for scatter-feeding where rats pee or poop. Rats actually eat their own poop. And need to for gut health much like many small animals. So scatter feeding for them is totally fine. Whether its in the bedding or in the litter box, or in toys. Dogs and cats don’t do that and in fact it’s concerning when they do. But we cant compare them to our rats unique health needs, care needs, or even how their bodies work. (Also I’m not sure why but I’m not getting notifications for your replies, so if I’m slow to reply that is why!)
Has anyone found something comparable to yesterday news cat litter they discontinued it. I use it just for litter but I liked it was safe and cheap at least the yellow bag that's unscented non clumping no baking soda. You got a huge amount that lasted forever. I got like 35 lb bag. I'd love to find another one safe and that's most affordable. It dosnt have to be cat litter it's just nice u usually can get a big bulk bag that ended up being way cheaper in the long run besides it being safe price is second most important.
I did a bunch of research recently and baking soda isn't harmful for rats like we have been told. I'll paste the info I shared in a discord server I'm in: If you really want a baking soda free litter i found this one on chewy: Your pet will love this Okocat Dust-Free Unscented Non-Clumping Paper Pellet Cat Litter, 8.2-lb box: app.chewy.com/Guh7iIctCqb I asked if it had baking soda and they said no. However due to my recent research i am using a walmart litter with baking soda. Vibrant Life Natural Paper Pellets Cat Litter, Unscented, 20 lb www.walmart.com/ip/421645039 I can get this one locally so that makes me happy. The pellets are a bit larger than yesterdays news but surprisingly less dusty! Baking soda being dangerous to rats appears to be another case of misinformation passed around on the internet. A few arguments tend to be made against it: 1.) dusty 2.) often used in rat poison 3.) abrasive All of these can be debunked per this study: A) journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.3109/10915818709095491 And some info on many pest control websites. First lets address the dust. Particles need to be 10 micrometers to enter the respiratory tract per this study: B) www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4740125/ Baking soda particles are 65-70 microns per this study: C) hpvchemicals.oecd.org/ui/handler.axd?id=FC6C791B-A85A-4EDB-A057-128916E3139C This is much larger and therefore not an issue for triggering respiratory illness. The study linked in A) shows that baking soda was also tested in an aresol form and caused no damage to the rats in testing. Next poison. Pesticides using baking soda are often mixed with other chemicals. This is because baking soda is unpleasant to eat. Even when fed straight baking soda in study A) “According to that study its not considered toxic and the amounts were definitely more than a rat would choose to eat: “Acute Oral Toxicity Sodium Bicarbonate was given to Wistar SPF rats (weighing 100-150 g) via stomachtube.(23T)heLDsovaluesreportedwere8.9g/kg(fedrats),7.57g/kg (fasted rats on wire floored cages), and 8.46 glkg (fasted rats bedded on wood shavings). Ten adult white rats (fasted for 24 h) were given 5 glkg of Sodium Bicarbo- nate via gavage. One animal died 6 h after administration. The test substance did not induce toxic effects in the remaining nine rats.(’*’ Ten CFE rats of the Caworth strain (weight range 200-300 g) were given 5 g/kg of Sodium Bicarbonate via gastric intubation. Each single administration was followed by a 14-day observation period. One death was reported. Sodium Bicarbonate was not classified as a toxic substance, since one half or more of the test animals did not die.” Baking soda was fed in amounts rats would never choose to eat on their own. And still deemed non toxic. It was once thought rats and mice cant pass gas/fart. But they most definitely can as any pet owner of these two creatures will tell you! So baking soda will not cause the rat to have gas buildup and die. Lastly irritation to the skin. Study A) tested this as well. “The skin irritation potential of Sodium Bicarbonate was determined using six albino rabbits. The test substance (0.5 g) was applied to both abraded and non- abraded clipped skin of the back of each animal via occlusive patches. Observations for signs of irritation were made at the end of the 24-h contact period and 48 h later. It was concluded that the test substance was not a primary irritant.” It also had no toxicity to pregnant animals: “Sodium Bicarbonate did not induce teratogenic effects when administered orally at the following doses: 580 mg/kg (mice), 340 mg/kg (rats), and 330 mg/kg (rabbits).” My conclusion is that in a litter baking soda is safe as even if a rat chooses to eat some of the litter the amount ingested would be so small it wont cause any harm. Rats will likely choose to eat much more of their actual food and treats than litter.
Today's video discusses the pros and cons of various wood and paper beddings. And addresses a LOT of misinformation in the pet community about them!
For part one of this series check out this video:
th-cam.com/video/J-0kTwwGpOg/w-d-xo.html
I feel like paper has a really awful reputation, when the issue is paper pulp bedding like carefresh. Paper pulp beddings are dusty and they soak up urine but then they stay wet, giving bacteria the opportunity to turn urea into ammonia. Ideally, a good bedding is aerated so the urine dries quickly to reduce bacterial growth. Also the study at 9:18 shows that cell-sorb plus, a paper based bedding, had less ammonia than pine. According to what I can find through scientific studies, paper beddings are typically the best but the best paper products are not available in pet stores. I honestly think there's a huge business opportunity if anyone wants to find a scientific supplier. Alpha-dri paper bedding seems to be an industry standard in scientific research and I would LOVE to buy some as a pet rat owner.
That being said, paper pellet beddings are great (although expensive) at reducing odor. I use them in litter boxes. Also eco bedding is fantastic for nesting boxes, though it provides no odor control. Thankfully my rattos don't poop in it!
Yes! That is very true. A lot of beddings used for studies simply aren't available to the pet community. Which is quite a shame.
We do also have to consider than in studies the cages are very different than our pet cages as well. There's not bars and items that hold ammonia like hammocks and toys.
Most rats in the scientific community have bedding, and a hide and sometimes a chew toy item. That's it besides food and water. They are also typically housed in singles or pairs where we house in pairs or more.
Our housing is going to cause a lot more issues.
I do have an acquaintance who manged to order a bag of cell sorb plus from a scientific supply website and was going to get back to me about how it worked out. (it would be anecdotal but still interesting) it looks so very very different than what we are sold. Little small squares of bedding all exactly the same size and shape. Absolutely nothing like carefree or it's cousins.
For litter paper pellets are amazing( and what I use as well) because it's changed more often than bedding. Less frequent changes can cause mold to grow. 😕
@@RatRandomness Please let me know how the litter works out! I tried ordering some but the shipping would have been insanely pricey. Do you know the website your friend ordered from?
I've worked in a lab with mice, and it's interesting because I found their setups caused more issues than the standard pet environments. Lab mice are kept in such small containers that urine built up fast and the whole facility stunk. Pet mouse cages are much larger and urine is more distributed so it can evaporate, preventing bacteria from turning urea into ammonia. I think similarly for rats, large bar style cages with hammocks are much better ventilated than the small bins used to house lab rats. Though the industry standard is moving to extremely well ventilated environments, which makes me very happy.
Also I haven't had any issues with paper pellet bedding getting moldy! Wow. I think my rats just poop in the litter, and choose to pee elsewhere. I can imagine it would get gross if they peed in it all the time!
I honestly do not know. We communicate through a discord server and their life has been very busy lately. I'll ping them as find out how they liked it!(and see of they can share where it was ordered from)
I know some labs have those cage setups for rats where the air is changed via a closed ventilation system. (I may have the wrong terminology) but I'm going to assume that isn't the norm.
I've seen some references to more “enriched” cage setups in labs for rats as well. Though they would be considered severely lacking by pet standards. But one was within the last few years so I'm hopeful there will be more push towards better standards there too.
Thankfully my experience with moldy litter wasn't in the cage!
I changed the litter and had it in a bag in my rat room. But a kiddo movedit and then I forgot it. It was only a few days but it got quite fuzzy. I'm glad I had changed to fresh litter when I did!
THANK YOU So Very Much for this video, I've been researching bedding & litter for my boys❤️ & as always You have helped me so very much with this very informative video!! I just started learning & Your Vodeos Help A LOT!! Thank You again!!☺️
Oh yeah!! That is so nice to hear And the main reason I make videos. :)
BTW, I just bought some aspen bedding (with the help of another video from you🙂) , it says "low dust" BUT when I put some on their floor & started spreading it around I noticed a lot of Dust laying on their floor. Is that normal??
The dust you can see visibly is too large to enter the respiratory tract. There is a study linked in the doc that has that info if you want to ready it. :) but if not dust you can see isn't the issue. It's if it “mushroom clouds” like cat litter, that's what you need to worry about. because those particles are super small as have to group together to even be visible.
Keep in mind when you change any litter or bedding it's very normal for rats to sniffle and sneeze or two weeks give or take as they adjust. Just like new home sneezes.
Hi from the uk 🇬🇧 getting 4 males x
Would love any suggestions other than the wood shavings - I’ve tried both pine & aspen w my rats & hamsters & while it works great for them, it triggers my asthma quite severely. At first I just dealt w it & took allergy meds & inhaler before cage cleaning, but as time went on, my reactions became more severe. And I can’t clean their cages properly if I’m dead, so it’s a whole problem.
Theres a few other options but not many. The next two options are hemp and equine cardboard. Both are harder to find in the US, but with some looking you can find them.
And they are both pretty pricey compared to aspen or pine.
Tractor supply or other farm supply stores are the best places to check for that. Dont be afraid to email or call before driving out.
@@RatRandomness thanks!
You are welcome!
I want to start using pine bedding in the lower part of my CN cage but i'm concerned about mites. Is it best to freeze the pine bedding first and for how long
All rats have mites just as people and other living creatures do. The issue is that during a change they can get stressed, groom less and have a flare-up. I've really only heard of mites from paper, but it never hurts to freeze your bedding though! I don't anymore, but when I did I froze overnight at least.
I had one of my back up vets tell me I should switch from Aspen to paper bedding because one of my boys had a mite problem and she said it could of been the bedding (it could have been but it could have been just THAT BAG) I did what she said (also treated him with revolution) and his mites went away but a different boy got a bad URI! We treated him for it but then it came back a week later smh. I switched back to Aspen and back to my regular vet and while this boy might have chronic UR issues he doesn't have as bad off a time with my less dusty Aspen compared to the very dusty, Clean and Cozy paper
Sadly vets arent trained on husbandry beyond what they learned in vet school.
They often give improper diet and housing info.
Mites can happen from so many things! Rats naturally have them(as do all people and animals) but during stress (sickness, intros, loss of a cagemate, etc) they dont groom themselves as often and the motes go crazy causing issues.
They can come from bedding too(i see it so often in new owners who got paper bedding) but its often something else too.
@@RatRandomness afterwards my boyfriend and I realized that it was probably stress. The boy who got mites had also been bullied to the point where I had to separate him from his brother because his brother injured him and so his brother was returned to the breeder AND he got 2 new cagemates within a couple of weeks. He gets along with them great but it was definitely a stressful situation for him
Poor thing. That will do it. Glad he’s doing better now!
What is your opinion on mixing a bedding like paper with aspen?
Fine for hamsters. But not for rats. Paper bedding has the worst ammonia control, and commonly has issues of causing mites flares.
Based on lab test results i personally wouldn’t ever use paper bedding (like carefresh or similar) at all. Aspen is a much safer option all around.
@@RatRandomness thank you for your answer. Do you think aspen and paper miced would be ok for a dig box? I'd love to give my boys the opportunity to make tunnels but I have a boy that is sensitive to coco coir.
In an external dig box outside the cage and changed often it would be ok. Hay is often used mixed with aspen or kiln dried pine for structure too.
Personally i just don’t think the paper is worth buying at all. But if you all ready have it then use it up!
@@RatRandomness unfortunately, I have a boy that can't use pine and I am allergic to hay. Makes things very difficult sometimes.
That does make it tricky. If your on facebook id check out the naturalistic and bioactive cage group for more ideas.
Theres different kinds of hay or straw that may work better and lots of other suggestions there too! Just searching the group will give lots of ideas!
I seem to be allergic to the paper bedding I’m using when I went to get the rats I was holding them my allergies were fine but the min I got bedding now holding them sets me off and makes me mega itchy should I switch to pine plz help
You should switch to pine or aspen. But allergies are usually due to urine on the rats paws and tails. You can wipe them with an unscented baby wipes before playing with them and it can help a lot!
20 years ago, any rat group you went into would unanimously tell you not to ever use wood shavings of any sort, and using it was basically abuse. They would all tell you that fleece and paper pulp bedding and fleece were the only safe options.
Now everyone hates paper bedding, and we see people using wood shavings again, and considers paper pulp to the ultimate bedding.
I have a few thoughts on this... First of all, I used paper pulp exclusively. My rats never smelled. I also never encouraged them to dig around in dirty cage litter by hiding food in it. People changed their bedding regularly, whether they used wood shavings or paper. Would they have gotten stinky if I waited over a week? Sure, but then again, the idea that someone might 'fluff' once a week and changed it once a month a month was unheard of.
Dust, urine, and so forth are all going to accumulate in bedding as the same rate no matter WHAT you use. Just because wood shavings still smell nice after a week doesn't mean the wood shavings are less dirty. Plenty of people where report that they have allergies or asthma that are triggered by wood shavings. If they are bugging people, they are DEFINITELY bugging rats.
You’re spot in that things have changed! It's wild to me as well.
I became a rat owner when fleece was the only bedding people used. I had a group so poorly bred they couldn't be on anything else.
During those 3 years we started realizing we had access to science. And we could read studies. And info changed.
We now know that paper bedding doesn't absorb ammonia. It doesn't help it dissipate into the air and it was discontinued in studies as a result.
It's not a hate it's just a fact of the bedding.
I don’t think anyone should wait a month to change bedding. Thats a recipe for sick animals. At least I hope they wouldn't. But bedding should be able to last a week. That's a completely reasonable expectation in a pet home.
On the hiding food, that's also a case of info changing and pet owners realizing that this is fun and enriching for our rats. It's something they would do naturally (scavange and forage for food) and it's even being done with dogs and cats now. We are learning more every day and with that info gets updated and changed.
Allergies can happen, but we have to remember not everyone or every animal has the same allergies or even allergies at all. Some dogs can't eat chicken, but we don't say all dogs should avoid chicken. Some people can't digest gluten or have cats as pets but that isn't the case for everyone.
It doesn't seem like you watched the video based on this comment. If I'm wrong my apologies. But I would encourage you to watch the whole video and I think you'll find some neat and eye opening info! 🥰
@@RatRandomness Thank you for your response. I assure you that I did watch your entire video, though that apparently did not come across in my comment. I mostly wanted to express an opinion based on trends I have seen in rat care, and not specifically information that you provided.
First of all, I am glad you do not recommend the idea that bedding can be maintained by fluffing it once a week and changing it once a month. Unfortunately, there is at least one prominent TH-camr giving pet care advice who said that she does exactly that when going over her cage cleaning routine.
As for the claim that paper bedding is no longer used in laboratories, I was curious and did some research. It is untrue. Paper bedding is still used extensively in laboratories.
Merck Manual of Veterinarian Medicine (whose contents are based entirely on the most up to date research), recommends cellulose bedding (paper). Their reason is that wood shavings contain volatile compounds that have been proven to effect liver function, reproductive health, behavior, immunity, is more likely to harbor more bacteria, and cause other issues which effect health and research.
Also, I found a study that discovered that although wood shavings are good at dispersing cellulose, pelleted bedding, like what many people use in their rat's little pans, works better than shavings.
And while it is true, not everyone who has allergies is allergic to bedding, the essential oils in bedding don't need to cause an allergic reaction to negatively affect the health of someone with a sensitive respiratory system.
Now moving on to advocating for enrichment. I do agree (and as a former psych major who did actual scholarly research on the subject) know that enrichment is important for the mental health and development of all animals. This was known 20 years ago. I have also trained a dog in tracking, and hiding food is a major part of the early stages of training tracking.
BUT... people who train and provide training/enrichment for cats and dogs DEFINATELY do not hide the food in the place where the animals defecate.
So once again, thank you for reading my comment, and delivering your well thought out response. I do stand by what I said. I haven't watched many of your videos yet. I do respect the amount of research you have put into this but remember that scientists don't limit themselves to the findings of one study. It is also important to remember that studies are performed under extreme circumstances (like putting bedding in a very small animal cage, and not changing it for two weeks).
I don’t think i was clear in my meaning by “discontinued” and for that i apologize, i meant specifically in the ammonia studies the bedding was discontinued due to being considered unsafe.
You are right that it is still used in labs however labs clean their cages daily, and often use special filtration systems totally different than a pet owner will have in a home with a wired cage.
It’s also a very different kind of bedding entirely. You can order it from lab supply stores but it’s far far more regulated and dust extracted than what we can buy in the pet store. So comparing it to the paper carefesh bedding is definitely not the same.
Its not even the same as the pelleted kind for litter as its smaller and made to all be the same size so its more like a paper version of shavings in shape and texture.
Due to the cages being cleaned so often that is why it can work in those settings. But in pet situations it isn’t practical or even good for our rats to clean that often. It causes rats to over mark and make the ammonia worse. Litter needs to be changed every few days at best to keep ammonia in control and balance cleaning so rats dont overmark. Its also quite expensive.
I do not agree that pelleted litter is a good bedding for rats due to all that unless theres no other options and the pet owner is able to clean it many times a week. And thats just not the majority of rats.
The oils in the beddings are going to be the same levels when kiln dried as paper. So comparing that isn’t really valid in this instance.
You might want go check out this video where i address a lot more about pine specifically and compare it to studies on paper bedding:
th-cam.com/video/0D6-uC5TzN0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ftJ33EJ4MnEOeqHv
And comparing a sensitive person to one who isn’t is not valid. The same can be said for our rats. Rats that are well bred wont have issues with good bedding like pine or aspen. Rats that are poorly bred with respiratory issues are not the ones that I am talking about in this video. I myself have had rats who couldn’t be on ANY bedding. That was my first mischief and experience with rats. It was awful and sucked.
However that isn’t the majority of rats. And it’s a disservice to treat them like that is when we have so many studies showing that better bedding is better for them on many levels. And not dangerous for the overwhelming majority. I cant possibly address every rat with health issues in a video. Nor would i consider myself qualified to do so since i am not a vet or the caregiver for that animal. My videos are directed towards the “average rat” and owner.
As for scatter-feeding where rats pee or poop. Rats actually eat their own poop. And need to for gut health much like many small animals. So scatter feeding for them is totally fine. Whether its in the bedding or in the litter box, or in toys.
Dogs and cats don’t do that and in fact it’s concerning when they do. But we cant compare them to our rats unique health needs, care needs, or even how their bodies work.
(Also I’m not sure why but I’m not getting notifications for your replies, so if I’m slow to reply that is why!)
Has anyone found something comparable to yesterday news cat litter they discontinued it. I use it just for litter but I liked it was safe and cheap at least the yellow bag that's unscented non clumping no baking soda. You got a huge amount that lasted forever. I got like 35 lb bag. I'd love to find another one safe and that's most affordable. It dosnt have to be cat litter it's just nice u usually can get a big bulk bag that ended up being way cheaper in the long run besides it being safe price is second most important.
I did a bunch of research recently and baking soda isn't harmful for rats like we have been told. I'll paste the info I shared in a discord server I'm in:
If you really want a baking soda free litter i found this one on chewy:
Your pet will love this Okocat Dust-Free Unscented Non-Clumping Paper Pellet Cat Litter, 8.2-lb box: app.chewy.com/Guh7iIctCqb
I asked if it had baking soda and they said no.
However due to my recent research i am using a walmart litter with baking soda.
Vibrant Life Natural Paper Pellets Cat Litter, Unscented, 20 lb www.walmart.com/ip/421645039
I can get this one locally so that makes me happy. The pellets are a bit larger than yesterdays news but surprisingly less dusty!
Baking soda being dangerous to rats appears to be another case of misinformation passed around on the internet.
A few arguments tend to be made against it:
1.) dusty
2.) often used in rat poison
3.) abrasive
All of these can be debunked per this study:
A) journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.3109/10915818709095491
And some info on many pest control websites.
First lets address the dust. Particles need to be 10 micrometers to enter the respiratory tract per this study:
B) www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4740125/
Baking soda particles are 65-70 microns per this study:
C) hpvchemicals.oecd.org/ui/handler.axd?id=FC6C791B-A85A-4EDB-A057-128916E3139C
This is much larger and therefore not an issue for triggering respiratory illness.
The study linked in A) shows that baking soda was also tested in an aresol form and caused no damage to the rats in testing.
Next poison.
Pesticides using baking soda are often mixed with other chemicals. This is because baking soda is unpleasant to eat. Even when fed straight baking soda in study A)
“According to that study its not considered toxic and the amounts were definitely more than a rat would choose to eat:
“Acute Oral Toxicity
Sodium Bicarbonate was given to Wistar SPF rats (weighing 100-150 g) via stomachtube.(23T)heLDsovaluesreportedwere8.9g/kg(fedrats),7.57g/kg (fasted rats on wire floored cages), and 8.46 glkg (fasted rats bedded on wood shavings).
Ten adult white rats (fasted for 24 h) were given 5 glkg of Sodium Bicarbo- nate via gavage. One animal died 6 h after administration. The test substance did not induce toxic effects in the remaining nine rats.(’*’
Ten CFE rats of the Caworth strain (weight range 200-300 g) were given 5 g/kg of Sodium Bicarbonate via gastric intubation. Each single administration was followed by a 14-day observation period. One death was reported. Sodium Bicarbonate was not classified as a toxic substance, since one half or more of the test animals did not die.”
Baking soda was fed in amounts rats would never choose to eat on their own. And still deemed non toxic.
It was once thought rats and mice cant pass gas/fart. But they most definitely can as any pet owner of these two creatures will tell you!
So baking soda will not cause the rat to have gas buildup and die.
Lastly irritation to the skin. Study A) tested this as well.
“The skin irritation potential of Sodium Bicarbonate was determined using six albino rabbits. The test substance (0.5 g) was applied to both abraded and non- abraded clipped skin of the back of each animal via occlusive patches. Observations for signs of irritation were made at the end of the 24-h contact period and 48 h later. It was concluded that the test substance was not a primary irritant.”
It also had no toxicity to pregnant animals:
“Sodium Bicarbonate did not induce teratogenic effects when administered orally at the following doses: 580 mg/kg (mice), 340 mg/kg (rats), and 330 mg/kg (rabbits).”
My conclusion is that in a litter baking soda is safe as even if a rat chooses to eat some of the litter the amount ingested would be so small it wont cause any harm. Rats will likely choose to eat much more of their actual food and treats than litter.
@@RatRandomness thank you so much I might give the walmart one a try after I finish the little bit I have left.