I like many of the features you discussed. I’m not into racing hard core, but anti cheat in the design just makes sense. The physics aspects are nice - one of my pet peeves with Zwift is the unrealistically high average speed for Watts (which messes up total kms for the year). I don’t see this really taking off without it being acquired and merged into another platform though. One man shows have their limits.
I found the following fact interesting: George Gilbert was chairman of the Zwift Cycling Esports Commision for over 3 years (until May 2023). indieVelo was founded in June 2023.
I find it interesting too , indeed this was the first thing I thought of commentating . Maybe im paranoid but it looks like spawn of zwift - attempting to capture the Whole market , not really as a competitor at all ... the only plus side is its server based like rgt was
It's amazing to me just how much one guy can do! I've done two rides on it and much prefer the cycling dynamics of indievelo vs the other apps. The graphics are definitely a weak spot but on the plus side I see 60 fps consistently :D
Don't be surprised if you don't see another human here either; but it won't matter because you will be surrounded by bots of every ability. There are also group rides of numerous paces and you can even set up custom races/rides/workouts!
Let's try and see. I currently do TrainerROAD plan and occasionally Zwift climbs for fun. Structured training is important for me when offseason on the indoor trainer.
It's OK. I mean, there's a lot to it. I like how much you have available to you in regard to real time stats while you are riding. But there's just one odd thing. There's a lot of people there. Or at least, there are a lot of bikes and avatars. But nobody says a damn thing. I mean, nobody talks. One thing about Zwift that I love is that interaction, even with people who aren't in a group or whatever. But not with indievelo. There's people everywhere, it seems. But nobody is interested in saying anything. So, in the end, if it's a training tool, it's probably good. But if you are looking for another indoor app that offers the same kind of social interaction, at least right now, this one isn't it. It's a good app though, it seems from what I have done.@@Eclipse240
Great video Tariq. Very inspiring to see what other indie developers have created in this space. It's exciting to see more content that we can use with our equipment. It's small indie projects like this that provide the innovation riders want.
@@SmartBikeTrainers it's somehow very difficult for anyone to take on zwift really even when they offer it for free. One thing I never liked about some apps is the fact that they reduce your watts in the corners and try to make it "so real". In many ways we really don't like loosing watts at all and wish they could just drop that whole issue as the ride time indoors are generally short and we want the highest watts possible in that short hours and really want to be pedal and seeing that watts even in the corners
Ace review. I just came across IV on a cycling podcast and have signed up. Searching for more info, I see you were onto this 5 months ago! Im subbing in to keep up. Cheers
It looks promising, especially if they focus on pack dynamics and drafting physics. For me, this is the main problem with Zwift, for example if you're sitting in a pack doing 180 watts and accelerate slightly, nothing really happens - eventually you will make your way forward but it takes way too long. IRL if you accelerate there is an immediate response.
Everything you said about IndieVelo sounds about right, but regarding the video title, they're simply _not_ shaking up indoor cycling. Serious indoor racing is a niche within the already-niche of indoor cycling, and making a racing app that is technically flawless with pristine physics is not enough to attract a significant audience. It's a good experiment, though.
I don't race but it feels more like riding a bike than playing a wii game which is good. A bit more range of places to ride in and slightly better immersive graphics would be a welcome addition. Be interesting to see what improvements get added on over the next few months.
I’ve done a few recent rides on this. It’s free because beta, which also is why limited maps I assume. My only two issues with it: I wanted a long, easy ride and chose the 22 mi 400 ft ride. By 3 miles I’d already climbed 700 feet, so that was weird. Secondly it’s packed with obvious bots.
Very interesting. I'm keeping an eye to IndieVelo since a while but, unlucky me, I only have an iPad for now. Btw, you mentionned braking and positionning in the bunch, is the app deciding for us when to brake or go right or left in the bunch? Or can we use some kind of controllers to choose when to brake and to move left/right?
The app does do the braking, yes. You can see when others are braking as well by the colour of speed indicator. I don't know about positioning as I've never played with that but in general it feels like a much better handling of pack dynamics - I don't think I rode through anyone today in my 90 minute pace partner ride.
Indoor cycling apps like Zwift are heading more and more towards gamification rather than ‘real’ riding dynamics. Gaming is where the biggest market is.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Great. Been watching for a while. Using Rouvy now, previously MyWhoosh, Bkool, Spivi. Rouvy my go to. But love the look of your racing. Only just acquired a smart trainer. Trax Flux 2. Will have a ride tomorrow Jan 20th 2024. See what goes on.
I'm not subscribing until it's clear where it's going, but then I have 12 months free from Zwift from the "compensation" offered by Wahoo for RGT, and MyWhoosh is there for free, couldn't care less about racing and other riders and chit chatting/yakking and being in a group/club/gang....
Without support for ATV, growth will be very limited IMO. And without a good user base, the racing features will be pointless if hardly anyone to race against. This was the main problem with RGT
Aaaah but guess what? You can create your own races/group rides even the number of participants! Are you looking for some deep zone 2 or sweet spot training? indieVelo will know your abilities after only a few rides and the algorithm will adjust the bots accordingly....it is amazingly simple to set up, 30 sec tops!
Nothing is on Zwifts planet with their racing leagues and events. It doesn’t matter if their physics is as perfect as others, the physics is equal for all and wattage and time don’t change regardless. It literally can’t be easier to build custom workouts that are engaging than Zwift. Don’t get me wrong, I would love a world builder component to mimic magic roads, but in the end Zwift takes the cake by a whole plant compared to the competition still.
well this is kind of interesting. This whole concept is missing the adventure, though. What about the 37 (or worse 102) degree weather, what about the flat tires, what about almost being hit by a car? I understand, you're like "yea, that's the point, convenient, safe cycling-oriented competition". Also, Trainer Road, I like the straight-to-the-point, no-avatar, no frills, blue rectangles.
If you are interested in trying again there is a huge base of regular users on a dedicated Discord channel that can help you with that. 100+ online ATM and almost 700 members
Wind, braking and draft feel, in-game race organisation, matchmaking, in-built verification measures, in-built dual recording, custom team kit for all, in-built broadcaster toolkit, API access, neutral start bots, keirin races, group workouts using custom workouts That's just a few USP elements off the top of my head!
Will have to give IndieVelo a look. I do prefer riding (virtually, of course) to videos of real-world routes (@Rouvy), but I'm looking for an simulation app that targets cyclists not looking for another social media app.
I like many of the features you discussed. I’m not into racing hard core, but anti cheat in the design just makes sense. The physics aspects are nice - one of my pet peeves with Zwift is the unrealistically high average speed for Watts (which messes up total kms for the year).
I don’t see this really taking off without it being acquired and merged into another platform though. One man shows have their limits.
I found the following fact interesting: George Gilbert was chairman of the Zwift Cycling Esports Commision for over 3 years (until May 2023). indieVelo was founded in June 2023.
I find it interesting too , indeed this was the first thing I thought of commentating . Maybe im paranoid but it looks like spawn of zwift - attempting to capture the Whole market , not really as a competitor at all ...
the only plus side is its server based like rgt was
IndieVelo looks like a quality competitor to Zwift especially for cyclists who love to train and race and are not so focused on social aspects.
It is. I use it for workouts
indieVelo, even if it's free and let us tough that the quality will be bad, is really better than zwift i tested both and there is no debat
Thanks! Hope Trainer Road was listening!
It's amazing to me just how much one guy can do! I've done two rides on it and much prefer the cycling dynamics of indievelo vs the other apps. The graphics are definitely a weak spot but on the plus side I see 60 fps consistently :D
i'll try it tomorrow, thanks for sharing. i tried mywhoosh tonight and i don't think i saw a single human
Don't be surprised if you don't see another human here either; but it won't matter because you will be surrounded by bots of every ability. There are also group rides of numerous paces and you can even set up custom races/rides/workouts!
Wow, this will be the first app to try when bringing my trainer back from the garage ))
Let's try and see. I currently do TrainerROAD plan and occasionally Zwift climbs for fun. Structured training is important for me when offseason on the indoor trainer.
Well, didn't know about this app until you posted this, so going to give it a try with the kickr bike. Thanks for the report.
How was it
It's OK. I mean, there's a lot to it. I like how much you have available to you in regard to real time stats while you are riding. But there's just one odd thing.
There's a lot of people there. Or at least, there are a lot of bikes and avatars. But nobody says a damn thing. I mean, nobody talks.
One thing about Zwift that I love is that interaction, even with people who aren't in a group or whatever. But not with indievelo. There's people everywhere, it seems. But nobody is interested in saying anything.
So, in the end, if it's a training tool, it's probably good. But if you are looking for another indoor app that offers the same kind of social interaction, at least right now, this one isn't it.
It's a good app though, it seems from what I have done.@@Eclipse240
Great video Tariq. Very inspiring to see what other indie developers have created in this space. It's exciting to see more content that we can use with our equipment. It's small indie projects like this that provide the innovation riders want.
Definitely always good to see smaller projects like this. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
You are so right about TR. Tehy should incorporate a platform like this. 👏
Wow. Very interesting indeed. Tariq is always onto these new developments and also at the right time for many as it's winter in many countries now
Just trying to stay on top of the tech 😁
Thanks for watching Zaahier 🙏🏼
@@SmartBikeTrainers it's somehow very difficult for anyone to take on zwift really even when they offer it for free.
One thing I never liked about some apps is the fact that they reduce your watts in the corners and try to make it "so real". In many ways we really don't like loosing watts at all and wish they could just drop that whole issue as the ride time indoors are generally short and we want the highest watts possible in that short hours and really want to be pedal and seeing that watts even in the corners
Very interesting!!! Great video. Love the racing detail and anti doping. Love that it makes you race similar level competition.
Ace review.
I just came across IV on a cycling podcast and have signed up.
Searching for more info, I see you were onto this 5 months ago!
Im subbing in to keep up.
Cheers
Awesome, thank you and welcome aboard 👍
A fantastic summary, I’ll definitely be signing up for IndieVelo!
It looks promising, especially if they focus on pack dynamics and drafting physics. For me, this is the main problem with Zwift, for example if you're sitting in a pack doing 180 watts and accelerate slightly, nothing really happens - eventually you will make your way forward but it takes way too long. IRL if you accelerate there is an immediate response.
Everything you said about IndieVelo sounds about right, but regarding the video title, they're simply _not_ shaking up indoor cycling. Serious indoor racing is a niche within the already-niche of indoor cycling, and making a racing app that is technically flawless with pristine physics is not enough to attract a significant audience. It's a good experiment, though.
I don't race but it feels more like riding a bike than playing a wii game which is good. A bit more range of places to ride in and slightly better immersive graphics would be a welcome addition. Be interesting to see what improvements get added on over the next few months.
Sound really good.i´m all up for more fair races with realistic physics based on riders geometry.
It’d be amazing if developers could simply configure google maps with a smart trainer so you could ride or race anywhere virtually
I’ve been wanting this for well over a decade on car racing game, but you are absolutely right it would be perfect for cycling games!
Bkool Sim.
I saw they have track races, that is cool and I am surprised zwift has never done it.
Compelling intro to indievelo...thank you
I’ve done a few recent rides on this. It’s free because beta, which also is why limited maps I assume.
My only two issues with it: I wanted a long, easy ride and chose the 22 mi 400 ft ride. By 3 miles I’d already climbed 700 feet, so that was weird. Secondly it’s packed with obvious bots.
I think if TR picked it up... I would be using TR
It would be cool to do TR works outs on a platform like this! I don’t think TR workouts will ever be able to sync over to Zwift!
I would like to see the RGT Magic Roads feature implemented.
Wow, very interesting.
Get the graphics of Virtupro and ATV compatibility, and I'm in.
Very interesting. I'm keeping an eye to IndieVelo since a while but, unlucky me, I only have an iPad for now. Btw, you mentionned braking and positionning in the bunch, is the app deciding for us when to brake or go right or left in the bunch? Or can we use some kind of controllers to choose when to brake and to move left/right?
The app does do the braking, yes. You can see when others are braking as well by the colour of speed indicator. I don't know about positioning as I've never played with that but in general it feels like a much better handling of pack dynamics - I don't think I rode through anyone today in my 90 minute pace partner ride.
Anything with virtual shifting is my pick, so ill probably start using it after my free months of zwift are over.
can you customize virtual shifting keys? e.g to alt and strg keys?
This looks brilliant!
Exciting new player on the market. Bonus question. Is it a smartring you are wearing? :)
My wedding band? It’s just a regular ring. Not smart :)
Is there any way to change from Km to Miles?
Always sunny is a great idea.
First! Didn’t know about this. Thank you for covering it. 👌
😮 they have done a tremendous amount of work and definitely worth checking out. Thanks for watching Matt 🙏🏼
Indoor cycling apps like Zwift are heading more and more towards gamification rather than ‘real’ riding dynamics. Gaming is where the biggest market is.
Nice insight, thanks
You are welcome!
I hope Indievelo adopt the Magic Road feature from the now defunct RGT
What's that brow?
How many people are in typical races?
is this fully compatible with the garmin smart trainers?
Yes it should be compatible Garmin Tacx smart trainers.
@@SmartBikeTrainers
Great. Been watching for a while. Using Rouvy now, previously MyWhoosh, Bkool, Spivi.
Rouvy my go to. But love the look of your racing. Only just acquired a smart trainer. Trax Flux 2. Will have a ride tomorrow Jan 20th 2024. See what goes on.
@TrainerRoad 👀
Interesting, he is building a 'better mousetrap' and then sell that 'mousetrap' to Zwift (or someone else).
I'm not subscribing until it's clear where it's going, but then I have 12 months free from Zwift from the "compensation" offered by Wahoo for RGT, and MyWhoosh is there for free, couldn't care less about racing and other riders and chit chatting/yakking and being in a group/club/gang....
Does Indievelo have running like Zwift does as well?
Sadly it does not have running
What FPS does it get on a decent desktop? Looks so klunky on there.
On my gaming pc, it was getting around 100-130 fps
@@SmartBikeTrainers Interesting If graphics can compare to a very successful Zwift.
Really a pity to don’t have a Apple TV version
TrainerRoad? I didn’t know that even exists anymore…😂😂
Does it work with Macbook pro?
Yes, they have a MacOS version.
@@SmartBikeTrainers thank you...I will try to see how I can download it, thanks again.
My MacBook Air M1 gets hot( same when riding in Zwift)
Zwift riders weight doping 90kg in real terms versus 60kg in Zwift,seen this!
goes to show that Zwift is way too expensive when one man can develop this
"wahoorgt diehards flocked to intervelilo"
9 people.
I guess trainer road missed their chance.
Without support for ATV, growth will be very limited IMO. And without a good user base, the racing features will be pointless if hardly anyone to race against. This was the main problem with RGT
Aaaah but guess what? You can create your own races/group rides even the number of participants! Are you looking for some deep zone 2 or sweet spot training? indieVelo will know your abilities after only a few rides and the algorithm will adjust the bots accordingly....it is amazingly simple to set up, 30 sec tops!
Nothing is on Zwifts planet with their racing leagues and events. It doesn’t matter if their physics is as perfect as others, the physics is equal for all and wattage and time don’t change regardless. It literally can’t be easier to build custom workouts that are engaging than Zwift. Don’t get me wrong, I would love a world builder component to mimic magic roads, but in the end Zwift takes the cake by a whole plant compared to the competition still.
Lol. The 23mm rim brake tubular guys now have a safe haven now RGT is no more. They want Zwift, but don’t wanna pay for it
Guilty! 😂
RGT fans? All 20 of them?
No silly trainer difficulty feature?
Yes, it has TD....
well this is kind of interesting. This whole concept is missing the adventure, though. What about the 37 (or worse 102) degree weather, what about the flat tires, what about almost being hit by a car? I understand, you're like "yea, that's the point, convenient, safe cycling-oriented competition". Also, Trainer Road, I like the straight-to-the-point, no-avatar, no frills, blue rectangles.
Probably just me but I could not get IV to find my sensors. Finally just gave up.
If you are interested in trying again there is a huge base of regular users on a dedicated Discord channel that can help you with that. 100+ online ATM and almost 700 members
I didn't think it was possible to make a game with worse graphics than zwift.
Sigh
@hughbike just making an observation. You're not the creator of the game are you?
Graphic quality looks really really sh i T compared to Zwift...........
Trainer road and indie velo together .. great idea
Is this a sponsored video?
No it is not sponsored
No USP. Everything they're spinning as a first, is already being done. Or will be very soon perhaps?
Wind, braking and draft feel, in-game race organisation, matchmaking, in-built verification measures, in-built dual recording, custom team kit for all, in-built broadcaster toolkit, API access, neutral start bots, keirin races, group workouts using custom workouts
That's just a few USP elements off the top of my head!
Oh it's an advert, I see. Sorry to interrupt.
An advert for something completely free?
Will have to give IndieVelo a look. I do prefer riding (virtually, of course) to videos of real-world routes (@Rouvy), but I'm looking for an simulation app that targets cyclists not looking for another social media app.