The Summoner and Prosecutor are both amazing. Which is better?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- after spending entirely way too much time using these weapons, is there a consensus on which of the summoner or prosecutor is actually better?
edited by: xVauda (twitter/twitch)
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A pvp review from Datto? He’s reaching his Final Shape.
Well without someone to summon the defendant the prosecutor can’t prosecute anyone so by technicality the summoner is better
😂
But what if the summoner summons the defendant?
Nah the Prosecutor has Legal Action TOO...
saul goodman made this comment 🙏😭
Ok that's gold
My heliocentric sidearm with heal clip incandescent has been incredible for me since the heal clip buffs
Same. Already have over 3k kills with it in pve since getting it not too long ago. It's basically replaced my mini tool.
I like heal clip, but I switched to a crafted Drang with enhanced incandescent and…wow.
I've been farming lost sectors for that. Heal clip and frenzy is my roll rn
You'll love it even more when you get heal clip and kill clip.
yeah same ngl i got heal clip frenzy
You’re supposed to have a surprised face thumbnail, and say they are both simultaneously the BEST MOST AMAZING LIFE CHANGING NEW AUTO RIFLES.
Do you even TH-cam? 😂
This auto rifle is MELTING players go FARM it NOW
The "surprised face" thumbnails are so cringey😂
"Prosecutor is the best auto rifle in the game!" * same youtuber 2 weeks later... "YOU are wrong, Here's why ammit is actually better than prosecutor!"
Positive Outlook is also a really strong auto rifle alternative to either Prosecutor or Ammit--the AA is a little on the low side, but the perk pool is staggeringly good. I have a TTT/Tricorn roll and a Zen/KC roll and both of them beam people really hard, even though I don't have the barrel/mag/MW perks entirely dialed in. You particularly want Zen if the reticle sway on it bugs you--that thing bounces a lot in a way some people find distracting, and while TTT helps some with that, Zen just shuts it off almost entirely.
I also pair the Zen Moment roll with Cyrtarachne's Facade and it feels like flinch is barely even in the game. It's great.
how do you get it?
@@dmark_ it’s a vanguard weapon, so get some vanguard engrams and focus away
@@dmark_ just play some strikes and you can focus a lot of them. got my godroll (zen/tricorn for me) within an hour. its better than prosecutor for me since the scope is so much nicer
Try Tunnel Vision/Killclip. Get 1 kill, get another 1 or 2 for free
With deterministic recoil, Summoner's base recoil value is still mainly vertical and very manageable.
Zen moment makes it a beam and lets you use adept range to have competitive range
I got a few roles, limited use but the one roll with ricochet rounds seemed to make the most difference regardless of range/stability perks.
Need more time to play with it😅
Summoner in particular also just never had much recoil, coming from a controller player. Original Rangefinder rolls probably helped a bit at first, but even outside of that, it barely moves.
Hearing an casual/average crucible players thoughts is surprisingly refreshing compared to the usual polarizing views.
Yeah. I felt it when he said his biggest PVP struggle is just "hitting shots", like for real man
@@Insetik47 Also the mention of controlling recoil. as someone who plays console and is a very average pvp player I feel that. It's why ive always loved 450's so much, and on top of that always going for any roll which optimizes recoil / stability over other stats in most cases as well as over damage perks
@@papaspaulding just use zen moment it fixes all the recoil
@@seanspursss I usually do on any weapon which rolls with zen it's a 'go to' although some weapons if can roll with super high stability can perform better (90+) as it feels like having a constant 2-3 stacks of zen at all times.
such as one or two rolls of positive outlook I have as well as my 96 stability firefright. there is near zero reticule bounce at all times and feels like a laser beam.
Zen can feel a little bit rough on odd occasions if playing higher skilled players and made to miss a couple of shots here and there being hit with sudden recoil whilst tracking can be jarring, it's why even with zen i still aim for as high stability as possible if not making too big a compromise on range.
But yeah in short I do love zen moment
Got a dragonfly + voltshot roll after grinding the phalanx encounter for a while and while it may not be the best in endgame it is incredibly satisfying watching the lighting from jolt mixed with all the dragonfly explosions.
As a returning player the fact that both of these weapons (as well as the title) are/were available to easily farm is really nice to get a nice lineup of all 3 light energy primaries
One roll that I got on the summoner that I found really interesting was a combo of heal clip and kill clip for PvE purposes, possibly PvP if you're good at it lol. The burst of healing and damage has given me more confidence to push up in higher end PvE activities. It's not perfect, but it's pretty nice, just have to be a compulsive reloader
That seems like a winning combo. Ricochet rounds and arrowhead and I’d consider it a god roll.
I’d recommend heal clip onslaught since it’s not stated but onslaught will increase reload speed and since your burning through your mag it synergies very well
Heal clip kill clip is insane in pvp I always go crazy but zen moment target lock goes crazy too
I spent hours farming prophecy last week and trials this weekend and managed to get myself pve/pvp god rolls for both auto's. Dragonfly-Voltshot, Keep away-Tap the trigger for Prosecutor and Heal clip-Incandescent, Dynamic sway reduction- Onslaught and Target Lock for the Summoner and they both feel amazing.
Honestly, it's nice to see you talk about PvP again, ive always enjoyed what little of your takes we've gotten. Not sure if it's just for content appeal or if youre genuinely enjoying Crucible 2.0, either way I'm here for it. I'd be interested to get your take on the revamp.
For Golden Tricorn x2 on Solar Weapons, Athrys' Embrace on Solar Hunter makes it MUCH easier, particularly with autos and pulses.
YEP got a zen moment golden tricorn roll, and I tried it out last night with athrys’ it’s actually insanely fun and effective
I definitely was thinking about this. Not only Athrys, but Peregrine Greaves if you're a Titan enjoyer, plus Dawnblade players pick up powered melee kills on the regular too even if they're less likely to build specifically into it.
Got a adept one today with heal/kill clip and golden tricorn and I think it’s really nice since I ability spam as my solar AR
Idk man, ive been smacking with my prosecutor with keep away and target lock.
Two things:
First, I think the Heliocentric solar sidearm is better than Mini Tool for PvE thanks to heal clip and incandescent.
Second, check out the Positive Outlook Vanguard auto rifle. I’ve been out dueling Summoner and Prosecutor all weekend in Trials with it thanks to surplus and void elemental capacitor.
If you’d like to check either of them out, I’d be happy to lend gameplay.
Anybody else notice that no matter what datto doesn't really get excited about anything? Like these weapons are like trials of the nine vs trials of Osiris. And both are extremely good in the sandbox rn.
The Abyss Defiant is really good i was skeptic about it but I really enjoy it
I wanna love trials I really do; however, get nasty messages from no lifers really makes me not love it. Like dude, I am trying to improve my pvp game and earn some trials loot. Go throw your temper tanturm somewhere else. Anybody else have this problem?
I just Turn off chat. Folks freak out in trials
@@Neon_tedious Ain't that the truth
Maybe don't be ass
never ever ever turn on open messaging on an online video game
@@bakbanb How about you control your shitty attitude you baby
I literally haven't used autos in years and then these two weapons show up and I love them now. Prosecutor was my favorite weapon back in vanilla, and Adept Summoner with onslaught is just an insanely fun weapon.
Adept with Overflow, onslaught/golden tricorn.
Thanks Saint.
I like how Datto seemingly refuses to talk about Breakneck because, I assume, he refuses to play gambit.
All of the guns mentioned here are also energy slot weapons. Maybe that's why? Breakneck's a great auto, so is Lethal Abundance, so is Horror Story, so is Rufus' Fury even.
@life-destiny1196 on that note so is tigerspite, so is breytech werewolf, so yeah no reason to talk about kinetics
@@tankingkinga.ka.re5megamon909 Onslaught's a beast, I disagree on Breakneck
@@life-destiny1196 I would argue Rufus is the best auto in the game.
Ammit on contoller is S Tier(super stable - even a bad roll) . Prosecutor is a boucy mule without a zen god roll - A+ Tier for a god roll(it seems to be better on M/K) , B Tier for a normal roll
Target lock on autos is copium. Idk why everyone is gassing it up. Golden tricorn is just better.
Kinda depends. On autos it's not a TTK shift unless you can guarantee weapon surges from something like Bakris (in Summoner's case you need 3x surges, and there isn't a great way to get solar surges on demand--and at that point you can just be Gunslinger and give yourself radiant for approximately the same effect, which is way easier). In that case you're just using it as training wheels. Prosecutor does shave a bullet if you're running Bakris to give you a window of 6% extra damage, which otherwise would be a T8 and under resil gate.
IMO double consistency perks are overkill on auto rifles anyway. The good ones will stay on target quite easily with just Zen, TTT, or DSR. Tricorn x1 on a 450 is the same 0.67s TTK as target lock plus bakris, and if you do tricorn x1 plus bakris you can hit a bodyshot and still be fine on that too. Positive Outlook doesn't have quite as easy access to weapon surges, but you can just do Kill Clip on that and 4c2b titans, plus 5c everyone T6 and below for 0.53s.
And then there's Abyss Defiant with Swashbuckler, but we don't talk about that one.
I see you’re a vizier regalia enjoyer, the chrome pink is pretty sick on the adept summoner 🤝. Great vid as always
Been using heal clip even before the update, so glad to see it become meta, I hope they don’t nerf it too hard,
Only reason I say to grind or go for the summoner is to get a roll you like so in TFS you can enhance the perks
IMO, I don't expect a direct heal clip nerf, but I could see some sort of cure nerf which would impact it indirectly. Solar subclasses are still really, really survivable in PVE, while also packing some of the most valuable supers in the game and potent wave clear tools too. Resto x1 feels like it's finally down to a point where you can have it and still feel threatened by high level PVE enemies, but resto x2 is still really potent. Having cure on top of that can feel like a lot, especially compared to what other subclasses get for their sustain which is pretty minimal by comparison.
as a note on recoil direction, post fixed recoil pattern weapons really don't see much of a difference with recoil direction, so the best thing to do is test every recoil combo and see what you like most. coolguy noted that on prosecutor SPECIFICALLY, you don't want to bother with counterbalance or chambered/extended barrel, either leave it at base or use arrowhead.
For the Summoner, I feel as if heal clip is the real draw, at least personally, because the sheer amount of health you get back is absurd (I got heal clip and onslaught on my first adept roll)
Heal Clip/Onslaught is the chase on that gun, yeah. I'm actually a bit of an Onslaught hater, as it just makes me feel like I'm running through my mags super fast (part of why I was one of the minority upset when Xenophage got reverted to 120RPM), but unlike other damage perks not named Frenzy it also helps with reload speed, which I'm more than happy to take advantage of with Heal Clip.
I'm still procrastinating on queueing up though LOL. I know Persistence is a thing now, but it's hard to talk myself into playing Trials.
Honestly if you’re going to be using it in PvE, the normal version is fine so there’s no rush to get it.
Additionally both versions will be enhanceable in the Final Shape, so it’s definitely worth going after.
And from using Heal Clip and Onslaught, it’s absolutely worth going after
@@life-destiny1196persistence wasn’t bad, just have to put 2 wins in a row together to take a step towards an adept. Can always use passage of wealth and get drops then focus engrams for the non adept summoner🦾
Solo flawless trials with a zen moment gold Tricorn prosecutor was an absolute cake walk. And I’ve never been flawless before.
Onslaught summoner might be my go to for 6v6 though.
Both are equal for PVE imo. PVP depends on how you play. If you play Short-Mid and are agressive, The Summoner with Heal Clip/Zen Moment, Onslaught. If you play Mid-Long and are passive aggressive, Prosecutor, with Tap the Trigger, Keep Away.
But if you have a god roll Ros Arago (Range masterwork, Ricochet Rounds, Dynamic Sway, and Onslaught) you pretty much have Summoner anyway (though Ros does have more range at base)
Watched this entire video knowing I never have and never will play trials
You can do it!!
It will never be easier then now. You can use persistence to get an adept or Wealth to just get drops and focus engrams for different rolls.
I said the same, I'm garbage at pvp. I got an adept summoner and adept incisor last week with the persistence card. Give it a try.
@@derek3154 It’s an auto rifle lmao. No amount of some of the worst PvP in the entirety of gaming is worth that. Guarantee 99% of these will be vaulted and never touched again
@@carebearkj4320 it’s not
For everyone, I’m Just starting to get into Trials and I’ve been playing since Taken king D1🥴.
The twid mentioned these weapons being enhanceable in TFS, so they’ll get that slight stat boost sure, but mementos are on the table just like adept raid weapons! Easily puts them in a higher tier solely on the basis of fashion. (Let’s be real, I’ll only be here for a golden Slammer)
Since this season has so many good artifact perks geared towards solar, the summoner is definitely on my priority list. Prosecutor is still in my mind though, just not in as big of a hurry to get a good one since it's arc...
My heal clip incandescent roll on summoner is actually my new fav pve primary, has max handling too
I never did like ammit. It always felt like when i used it i was shooting marshmallows. But when other players used it i get eliminated quickly. Summoner has always been my favorite solar AR. I stand by my og dynamic sway dragonfly summoner from way back
my new adept summoner has golden tri and overflow and i haven’t stopped using it
I haven't seen a video yet for how deterministic recoil works on the Summoner, but keep an eye out for that. You might not need Arrowhead and/or counterbalance as much as you used to, or we might need them more than ever.
I personally love the summoner in trials and out so far got a decent roll with subsistence and incandescent
So glad they finally brought the other trials weapons to Prophecy. Biggest reason I dropped it so quickly was because this auto wasn’t back, so now I’m gonna be running it a TON. Glad it’s good
crazy to think the only "bad" perk is perp motion...
I have a heal clip/ incandescent roll on an adept summoner and it’s amazing. I can make firesprites everywhere and I get ember of benevolence proced just standing next to teammates when I reload. Also have a subsistence incandescent, subsistence onslaught, and heal clip onslaught that feel pretty nice to use.
I can confirm heal clip is great, if you want to try something with it, abyss defiant with heal clip/incan is a good auto to give it a spin with.
Heal clip has great natural synergy with onslaught.
Onslaught gives a boost to reload with stacks and makes you need to reload more often. This buffs heal clip because you'll be reloading anyway so you get the free 120 health with it.
Im definitely looking for a dragonfly voltshot roll on prosecutor. I probably wont use it too much, but its a good novelty I can see myself eventually wanting in a build.
As one of those top pvp players who notices things like the effects of target lock and am worried much more about dealing with the +40 overshield, and less about the correct engagement ranges, landing my shots, or compensating for recoil, my answer is... try them yourself.
Weapons have a unique feel to them. What works for you is unique to you. If it's working, if you're vibing with the gun, then use that gun. You can't go wrong with either option.
Also the right roll might feel really good, I didn’t like rose till I got a good roll on one.
I got a Heal Clip/Kill Clip roll. I really enjoy it on my Solar Hunter in Pvp.
The reason zen moment is used on mnk is not to make the gun bounce less but because maxing out stability also makes flinch significantly easier to deal with without having to build it compromising range. Flinch is by far the worst part of dealing with handcannons right now and makes fights against them doable.
Also subjunctive is better than ikelos on mnk, it just feels worse on controller.
prosecutor has rewind+cascade point which seems hillerious
Onslaught in pvp has been really fun, especially if there’s a second target right after you finish the first one, they just get melted instantly
😊 Onslaught to buff reload for heal clip! It’s soooo good
I agree with this man
Man summoner is so good, slapped an adept counterbalance on that bad boy and went from 67 recoil direction to 100, onslaught has created a few cool plays as well
No lie, I’ve been stressing about which to farm and if I need to to stay within the power curve of the player base for both PvE and PvP all weekend. Thank you for pointing out alternatives that we may already have, and their place within the wider sandbox. I already have an Amit and Corrinacht I like, am bad at PvP and don’t have time to solo farm a dungeon. Thank you.
Enhanced Surplus on Ammit lets it have max stats while 2 abilities are charged, insane in pvp when paired with golden tricorn
"everyone should have the Ammit AR2"
*Me remembering The J3z making Datto pulling his hair out
11:30 thats exactly the PVP Prosecutor experienced summed up. You just got to play it strictly in its AR range to fully abuse its range potential. If you really get a good roll on it, you can duel friggin scouts and hand cannons with that damned thing.
Heal Clip + Onslaught is the best legendary primary I've used in pve since recluse and I wish I was memeing, this thing fucks so hard. Probably falls off in GM content but for everything else its insane
you know PvP is going in good direction when Datto the PvE guy is doing PvP weapon review
I have to side with summoner bc it’s my first ever adept weapon back in witch queen. Glad it came back with some bomb perks.
I got an elemental capacitor onslaught roll for the summoner and I gotta say it's an interesting roll for PvE. I still need to grind out trails to get the rolls I want but don't overlook elemental capacitor for PvE since you're gonna be on solar with this auto
I don't really need the summoner when I have me heal clip incandescent abyss defiant
I have a keep away/ target lock prosecutor and a Dynamic Sway/Target lock/range Masterwork adept summoner. For 3s I keep going back to nechrocasm this weekend.
Glad to see someone even knows of the existence of Coronarch-22, been enoying it a lot since it came out as a better mini tool with Feeding Frenzy and better range, after Auto Rifle buffs with Lightfall.
Easy pick, the one that DOESN'T make me suffer thru D2's miserable PvP and make me wanna eat my fuckin Xbox when I do decide to play it... ☺️👺
Don’t forget that starting with final shape both will get enhanceable perks on them
The answer? Adept Rufus's Fury.
are auto rifles strong in the sandbox again?
As a fellow “hard to hit shots” guy, I applaud your honesty. It was refreshing considering how cocky you are in perk reviews.
Summoner has almost 100% radiant time up aswell if your more aggressive. I usually don't see that buff drop unless we're on a huge map or if people run and avoid me to which I couldn't get the precision heads hots to proc it
Which is better? Tigerspite with smallbore, ricochet rounds, surplus, rangefinder, and a range masterwork.
Bare in mind he is reviewing these weapons and comparing them to smgs from a pc players perspective, which is fine. But If you’re on console auto rifle vs smg is a different story. On console Calus Mini and Subjunctive will not be able to compete with these auto rifles for anything at medium to longer range as they have significant recoil and reticle scatter. This will be apparent in harder pve activities where you generally need to be further away from enemies.
I think if you're using a solar subclass anyway, you'll get more harmonic mods with the ammit so I'd probably use it
Autorifles being useful is so nice, I had fun with Suros Regime.
I just want a subsistence/incandescent Summoner because Mini-tool lacks the range I want. Plus subsistence is a much more synergistic perk with incandescent over anything mini tool can get in the left column.
To be honest with you i prefer my old school OG auto rifle called The Forward Path over The Summoner.... The Forward Path has better base stats compared to The Summoner, After using The Forward Path in Trials all weekend i'm really glad i held on to a roll.
Recoil direction is very different now they switched to using deterministic recoil patterns on all new guns. The stat does matter, but it’s much less illustrative of what the gun is actually going to do when fired. Check some out against a wall and you’ll see. (I say this as a fellow arrowhead enjoyer!)
One is locked behind Trials, therefore it loses automatically.
Heal Clip + Incandescent are a amazing combo in PvE
Datto embracing pvp content creation? Never thought I'd see the day but I'm here for it, I've always thought you could do it from the limited destiny pvp I'd get to see or your the finals content so I'm glad.
When into the light drops and we get the new weapons from that, can you make an updated “best in slot” weapons vid leading into final shape?
Still have my season 10 Summoner with Overflow and Elemental Capacitor. It's easily the Auto that I've used most in my half-decade into D2
Datto...I never realized you do the exactly same PvP play style I do...that gives me hope. Thank you.
Heal clip is what makes summoner special.
I recently got a kill clip and heal clip role, and it’s been fun in PvP.
Funny how were both originally trials weapons.
I would LOVE to hear your thoughts about the new state of pvp, Datto! I think you fill a a much needed niche in that, much like myself and a lot of other players, you are a pve focused player who isn't terrible at pvp. I think that value is insightful and meaningful. (I also just love you and your videos regardless but that's neither here nor there)
An SMG in anything remotely high level is a mistake, thats where an auto comes in.
Prosecutor has a nice clear sight plus the ability to highlight targets. 450s are easier to control and land headshots. Summoner feels like a bullet hose.
720s - I wonder if they perform now too. You can even craft something like Sweet Sorrow with 100 recoil, and a 0.75 optimal ttk.
Nah cause these 2 autos are in the .6 ttk camp with their damage perks not actually requiring a kill either makes them leagues above the rest
I would love to see autos and pulses get just a little more love for PvE. At this point the range loss from using an smg hardly seems like it's ever an issue. I get the point when it comes to scouts, but when every encounter is at close range I just know I'm never going to end up using one.
Came to comments to say thank you for including PvP talking points!
Like to hear your pvp thoughts, good to hear stuff that pertains more to the pvp everyman rather than the "kill potential" of guns
Im just glad Summoner is back honestly. Was always one of my favourite feeling autos
Elemental capacitor, incandescent when we get enhancing is gonna slap on Summoner.
Pvp is just max range zen moment and your favourite damage perk of the 3(4 but rampage is as$).
I was just researching this topic while grinding out summoner adepts
Honestly any auto with Dynamic Sway + Tap the Trigger feels really good right now for me, the slightly above average PvP player.
And the new sandbox actually feels enjoyable too. I find myself wanting to play Crucible. Good job, sandbox team :)
At this point, if you aren't using a cheating device, it feels like you aren't above average.
I'm new to PvP and pretty trash at it. I appreciate the honesty of someone who isn't as good as its realistic advice for my skill level.
Heal clip is so insanely goated, cure x2 has saved my ass so many times
I’m just curious to what shader Datto is using for the summoner. That chrome purple looks fire, anyone know what one that is?
Ros Arago with onlsaught doesn't do nearly as well as Summoner with Heal clip/Onslaught
You can use it way more because you dont have to worry about your health. It lets you just stay in the mosh pit and slay
I've always found tricorn better than kill clip, I'm not having to worry about trying to proc it and take advantage of it in that very short time frame, often getting caught out whilst reloading also, where as with tri I could have cleaned up the double kill etc and can take advantage of the extra damage passively without reloading then making dumb plays before the timer runs out thinking I'm invincible simply because I have kill clip proc'd lol
You can farm the budget summoner that he mentions in lost sectors. Still completely rng tho, so it probably best just hopping onto trials
I want the damn "budget summoner" more than I want the dynamic onslaught Summoner adept I got this weekend tbh. Onslaught + Repulsor on void sounds so good.
Also, I don't think you can farm it in lost sectors. That's only a specific subset of world drops that are target farmable on a daily rotation in lost sectors. Yes, technically any world drops can drop, but that isn't "farming".
The most decent way I've heard so far is the seasonal activity with Riven. Just because it drops quite a few engrams if you make it far.
Mans got over 10,000 kills on the mini tool but it wasn’t worth the ascendant alloy for enhanced threat detector. Even if just to have the masterwork border :(
Datto, take heal clip and onslaught summoner into some activities and then redo this video 😭 it’s arguably the best legendary weapon in the game for pve
What is this their 7th time reprising the summoner