I KNOW IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS ONLY DIRECTED AT HINDERER KNIVES BUT ITS ABSOLUTELY NOT, THIS GOES FOR ANY COMPANY RUNNING LOW HRC ON ANY STEEL ON A POCKET KNIFE. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING PLEASE LEAVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS BELOW.
Honest question. Will you still carry your Hinderer with a faulty lock up? I just spine/tip whacked mine and it malfunctioned . Love the knife but not sure I can carry it
This is the kicker if it costs you say $500 for us to get one in the UK that price in dollars goes up just a bit with postage and handling fees then vat to wait for it and see if you would consider it such a good deal. Get ready Jerad $ 716.25 at today’s exchange rate. I can already hear you shouting no feking way would you pay that for a knife that if you sneeze it will unlock itself 😂🫵😘👍
Can you use 90 rubbing alcohol and clean off the lockface and tang. Just drench it in solution to get rid of lube and try again. Run the bearings dry too so no lube drips on the lock.
@@tacticalcenter8658 yes i have done that i shoulda said that, but since i say it all the time i figured people knew i woulda done that but thats my fault for not saying, someone did say i should change to teflon and see what happens so im gonna
@@NeevesKnives yeah I only mwntioend it cause I saw that video of someone calling you out on that and rhe washer vs bearings. But bearings shouldn't do that. Perhaps having bearings is just a marketing gimmick for Hinderers.
Last time someone made a video being critical of Hinderer he came after them with a lawsuit. This might be opening up a can of worms and some headaches. Clearly his ego is as fragile as the lock up on those knives. Thanks for having enough balls to put this out in the knife community.
Hinderer would be a fool to file suit for a video like this again. The community would eat him alive. The community will not put up with bullying again just as we didn't the first time.
@@NeevesKnivesHinderer would be stupid to try a lawsuit like that these days. Social media and the internet has made it much harder to get away with that kind of thing. It will cost them a great deal in reputation and reputation means sales.
I have not owned one since I had one fail on me years ago. But you are right.....if it's meant to hold an edge.....run the HT higher, they have zero reason not to.
If you're gonna charge $400+ for a knife, the hrc should be in the optimal range for the steel, and lock up should be like a bank vault. There are zero excuses for not doing it.
@@scrick7112 I won't ever own or buy a hinderer. There over priced for what you get in my opinion plus Rick hinderer is one of the biggest assholes in the knife industry
Especially the lock. If all the major Chinese knife manufacturers can make a sub $100 knife with all of them having solid locks there is no excuse for this.
Thanks Jared for doing what very few in your position are willing to do , think all anyone who loves knives wants is for everything to get better, regardless of whether or not you use the knife hard or it sits in a case wanting better material , hrc , lock up and plain old integrity should be important to us all . Well done !
Nah, this is completely reasonable, and I think applies to many other flaws/shortcuts I keep seeing in “premium” knives generally. Lots of soft heat treats, uncentered blades, uneven grinds and edges, and massively-inflated prices that absolutely aren’t justified by either the materials or build quality
False, I use my hinderers when I rotate , I may not use for hard use , but I use at work box cutting mail and plastic and tape , as I am a truck driver , I use my shit
*_Ladies and gentlemen this is how we the people hold manufacturers accountable, and push them to DO BETTER!_* *_Your a real one Jerad!_* *EDIT:* _For the record, I have 11 out of 13 Hinderers that also fail this easily! Now maybe people will believe it! I told you.. the rate of failure is _*_ASTOUNDING!_* *_Lock-face geometry is as, if not more important than the blade geometry itself! After my realization of the rate of failure out there; I was infuriated to say the least that this is seemingly so easily overlooked by multiple & many big name manufacturers!_* _(ALL Malibu's fail this easily also!)_
When you have used one a whole lot, wearing in that framelock, will it get stronger? 🤔 Because I have a theory that they overbuild their MagnaCut to be even more tough, and overbuilding their framelock to be extra long living. 🤔 Jerad also said one of his was fialing him before, but didn't this time around. Maybe that one wore in during that time since it failed. 🤔
Because microtech is overrated overpriced garbage as well. Pieces of shit void the warranty if you sharpen it. What knife company voids the warranty if you sharpen it?? It’s a Fing knife!!
@@kraftzion I have no clue what this guy is going on about, google and read the microtech warranty yourself, they DO NOT void the warranty if you sharpen your knife lol. They say if you damage or modify it during disassembly to sharpen it, it will be up to their discretion if it is covered free of charge or not.
Looks like someone is about to get a cease and desist order from ol Ricky! haha, but thank you for bringing this to light, I have my first hinderer coming and this will be the first thing I check, if it fails its going back. Not paying 425 for light lockup AND low HRC. Thanks!
Update after receiving my Hinderer Eklipse 3.5 harpoon tanto, spinewhacked and it didn’t flinch. No lock stick, sharp as a laser and centered, even grind, flawless assembly. Couldn’t be happier.
I’m with you I like Hinderer knives and have owned several but for the price they should be damn near flawless. I can buy a Glock for the price of some hinderer knives. If 6 out of every Glock failed what people keep shelling out money to buy them or maybe ask they fix their product?
I’m with you. Just trying to have a discussion. Hinderer is proud of his knives. Why not make them tip top if you could? Change two things you can got from a C+ to an A+? The rational isn’t there I don’t get it. $400 to $500 for a pocket knife is a big ask for a lot of people. To not have the quality to back that price is almost a slap in the face to the buyers and community.
Glocks can have issues, but they are Law Enforcement standard issue for a reason. Personally, prefer Colt which was my issued sidearm inn the Army, which was far more reliable then the M-16, which was horrible but I love them anyway.
Facts: Soft steel, Don't come sharp, lock fails rudimentary tests that budget knives breeze through. I have never been a hinderer fan because of astetics alone but that never made them bad knives to me...this does.
I have 4 Hinderers and they all passed. I guess I’m lucky. I really enjoy your channel Jerad and stay strong for the storm that’s coming. I appreciate what you do for the knife community. Thank you.
Bro, so sorry for your loss. That is absolutely unacceptable. Goes to show that some companies are mass producing just because they will sell. Quality be damned!
Exactly what I was thinking. Old ZT use to be my favorite knife company, and I still do have a soft spot for their products, but after 5 of my 7 frame-locks from them had failure (from similar pressure Jared's using), I couldn't stand even looking at them in my collection anymore and they all got sold. Funny enough is that like 3 or 4 of the 5 failed models I had were Hinderer designs as well lol I think this is just a sign to stay away from HK until he's willing to compromise on their under performing steel and recorrect their lock face geometry on their frames.
Some... Try most. And new ones also. I love their designs so keep trying but the 0707 failed with the lightest taps ever. 0545 didn't take muct at all either.
I just checked my 3 XM-18s and my 24. All with steel lockbar inserts and all on bearings. I was whacking a whole lot harder than you and NONE failed! I do live your videos though. Keep them coming!
Jarred they aren’t going for toughness, they are going for lower cost grinding belt costs. Didn’t you talk to a company and get different price points for different HRC, I’d be interested in what the difference between say 61 and 62 and 63 is.
It wouldn't be that big of a difference, it would definitely cost more but small businesses doit, why can't one of the leading companies doit, when others doit at half the cost
There are some knife channels that just greenlight every single sent knife to them, nothing negative is ever said. We know they are getting free knives and monetary incentives, but the viewers NEED honest information not an infomercial. Thank you for having a legitimate opinion.
Love your channel. I am not a blind fanboy of Hinderers, or any brand for that matter, but I do love Hinderer knives and I have 7 of them, 3 3inch XMs and 3 3.5 inch XMS and an Eklipse. After watching this video, I went and whack tested mine. None of them failed and I was hitting them pretty hard. Maybe the problem is batch specific or something? However, the HRC is definitely something I wish ALL knife brands would pay attention to! I guess we'll have to start speaking out with our wallets. Maybe if we only buy from brands with optimal heat treat, it would force knife companies into giving customers what they want and SHOULD get at these price points!
I know Vosteed started running their 14C28N higher. I'm seeing some M390 knives, very few, being released in 60-61. I think things are changing, (edit: so this is probably a good last time commenting on it)
It's been a hot second since I watched an entire knife video all the way through. This was a banger bro. And I like the placement of the bike in the beginning too. Lol
I don't own one, I've had them before they hurt my fingers to open them. I just never was impressed with the knife. It was more hype than anything. Thanks for sharing great video
HindererDefenders are huffing on Copium rn I have 3 Hinderers, 2 XM-24's and 1 Fulltrack. ALL 3 of them are in the Battlefield Pick Up configuration. I dont think any of them have ever failed their lockup on me. Id be willing to spinewhack test them on camera and even do a handheld HRC test on all 3 of my pieces just to get the info out there if others are interested.
Thank you, Jarred for addressing this issue. They might as well be blading those knives with crap with that HRC. I can't see the value of not treating the magnacut right. Is it that difficult to heat treat it 2-3 more points? It really don't make it less tough.
Couldn't agree more! Some companies don't take critisism very well, which is their loss. I wish there were more companies like Spyderco who take their customers very serious and have one of the best customer service departments.
Only 1 of 4 of my RHKs failed, a 3” XM-18. When initially deployed, it has some lock rock, and can fail relatively easily, though as soon as I grip the handle, the lock tightens, and then I can’t get it to fail. No excuses, but at least this tends to be true with frame lock knives. The button lock knives that fail easily make me a lot more nervous about using them. The flipper tab also helps some for safety….again, no excuses. I’m really quite shocked with the results of your collection, but I always appreciate your honesty. I am very curious how Hinderer would address your specific knives. Thanks!
I'm scared to check my xm-18 3.5/s45. I spent a lot of money. I'm in shock 6 out 8 failed lock check. Damn. Thanks for making the video and maybe rining m day😢😂😂
So I just tested most of my knives, I had 3 failures. My Spyderco Tenacious in S35VN fails with very light taps to the spine, my Civivi Baby Banter also fails at very light taps, and my Civivi GTC Hypersonic fails with medium taps. This kinda sucks, I'm glad I watched this video, now I know to not use these knives on harder tasks, hell, I don't know if I want to use them at all. I'm really bummed because I liked those knives quite a bit, they might as well be double detent non-locking knives.
Certain knives don't blame toughness so it's more forgivable, but still disappointing. There are ways to help this issue in some cases easily some not so much but should you have to
They're worse than slipjoints; slips actually have features to prevent injury if they fold. 'Locking' knives that fail don't. The blade stop on those knives is bone.
What are peoples thoughts on flipperless hinderers with thumb studs so far back you can't use them so they're hard to deploy because their meant for assisting the lock up, not opening.
i honestly liked the flipperless ones myself, however i fear them failing and not having the flipper in the way, even though that can be a nightmare as well, ive have chunks pulled out from being pinched by knives opening and closing
I only own knives I can trust fully. Spydercos and CRK, one MBK, one Kizer... When you do precise work on something that isn't on a table, you need a spine on which you can put some pressure. You need to be able to squeeze a knife without unlocking it too (some linerlocks are dangerous that way). It's simple testing of a model before selling it. Custom knife maker often break many blades before deciding which way to go for a particular steel and blade geometry.
Greetings from Czechia! Thank you Neeves for posting this video…i get tired of channels like MetalComplex with no objectivity..you show it like it is and that´s why you are the most reliable knife reviewer there is! Thanks mate!
That's exactly how my knuckle got cut to the bone on the first run vosteed Raccoon... finger pressure on the spine failed it. The people that say oh a knife doesn't need to be able to take a light spine whack and not fail are crazy. Yes we don't use our knives like that but what if your cutting in to something and the blade get stuck a little and you pull up on the knife to get it unstuck and BINGO lock fail will get the heck cut out of you. It's crazy that people will defend easily failing locks, yes we don't expect a lock to be 100% failsafe BUT we expect the lock to be a lock and keep us safe in common use. Simple as this, hinderer is using "toughness" as a scapegoat for lower grinding costs/time, nothing more nothing less.
Im imagining way back when i was a dumb little kid stabbing into things with the old school single blade victorinox, the "classic" non locking one. That was my personal first day of first aid class on myself so my parents didnt find out lol, very unnecessary
Yup! I did the same lol. At 8 I was trying to cut open a tennis ball with a slip joint. I burried all the bloody rags in the trash so my folks wouldn't find out and take the knife away. 😏
you know thats a company i would kinda expect, since people are doing real hard use things with the tools, yeah its a blade but a lot of people pick and pry with them and they are not super thick geometry
@@NeevesKnivesThat makes sense to me. Maybe though, just maybe, Leatherman could make their blades purely for cutting and edge holding, and add a tough-ass prybar thing to fold out to not have the compromise of wanting a tougher blade. But then there is also warranty, lol.
At this point he clearly doesn't care about providing the best product available. He's not only defended it but doubled down and threatened to sue anyone talking about it. It's a shame because it's an excellent design. I take personally at this point, like being spat on
I think toughness is a relative term. Not everyone uses knives the same way, or has the same expectations. Many people use and abuse their knives. I had a Leatherman Skeletool blade in 154cm break in half. I was trying to dig an arrowhead out of a tree. Called Leatherman, they said they couldn't replace it with the same serrated version in 154cm. I could get 154 in fine edge or I think 420 in serrated. I take that as an indication that the 154 was brittle, and has a weak spot in the serrations. I went for 154 in fine edge. Got the knife back and I still love it. I love the edge retention of the 154 version. Did I abuse the knife? I don't think so, some would disagree.
i wouldnt take it that way personally i would guess they just didnt make any more with serrations possibly because they were the least purchased, any steel can have a bad heat treatment ive snapped many blades do to that as well. Leatherman is usually known for running them on the softer side which i can understand why
I love their knives too (different steels, and never tried the spine whack) but that grind is tough to deal with exclusively. I was deciding whether to buy my first Half Track I’ve wanted forever, or my first Chris Reeve. I think this made up my mind.
Like I said I do love hinderer knives, I actually didn't know about the failure issue until recently. It's a tough board to recommend at this point so I don't blame you
I did drop my Hogue Deka when I was changing scales, about a 2 foot drop right on the tip. It did chip it the smallest bit, I was able to sharpen it away.
Thank you for this Jerad.. Take note, folding knife production companies.. Bring back quality control before people start to notice you're slacking at a professional level - won't be good for your bottom line. Part of the reason I'm moving away from folding knives these days..
I do not know or understand how to make steel and knives but my question is Does it cost more to deliver a higher HRC? Could it be a business decision why Hinderer runs their MC lower?
I didn’t believe you. Then i took my every day carry xm-18 and gave it some pretty light taps and the lock failed just like in this video. Never had a problem when using in the real world, but now i know to be careful and be aware that it can fail. Always thought it was bullet proof. Wow
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and talk knives ! I know you’re busy but it means a lot! Keep up the great show and content nice escape to look forward to watching NN 💯🙏🏽🔥
I have note only been to the Hinderer Manufacturing facility but have gotten to work as an assembler. Every knife is spine whack tested by the assembler. Then they are tested again before sharpening. The lock failure has been a non issue for years. We just tested 31 brand new Hinderer Knives and posted a video of it. All 31 stayed locked up with zero issues and we were knocking them way harder than the ones in this video!
@@usamadeblade7545 i just watched your video and want to thank you for being straight forward and putting your self on the line by doing it in front of a camera it truly says a lot. im happy that yours did well
I'm curious, out of all of those, how many had an "aftermarket" scale on the show side? I noticed when i swaped my show side scale from a g10 to a titanium the lockup wasn't quite as strong as it was with the g10 scale..
the connection is if its supposed to be a tough knife with thick geometry then why does it fail so easily, i know a lot of other people have had this issue as well im sure its not all of them nor most of them. i just dont understand going with thick geometry and a softer side heat treatment
Gotcha, thanks for explaining. I definitely agree an expensive knife shouldn’t fail like that, another notorious one is the Lamia. I just don’t think HRC should be correlated to lockup. It should be two different topics: Why do thick knives marketed as hard users have a low HRC; and why do expensive knives have locks that fail. I would definitely be mad if a lock fail caused an injury like yours but otherwise I think a situation where the spine is taking an impact is pretty rare. I do think of a situation when you’re camping without an axe and use a log to strike a knife to split bigger pieces in half (vertically). I would be super annoyed if the lock kept failing.
@@iamamind I think you are missing the point and maybe its my fault, geometry only is thick for toughness, it does nothing for cutting, so if you want a knife to be a good cutter it needs thin geometry, geometry is the number 1 thing to any knife second is heat treatment. so why are they thick if not for being a tough knife would you ever call a folding knife tough that fails from a 3 lb fail? as far as the heat treatment, softer is tougher harder has more edge retention, so why would you sacrifice it holding its edge for toughness when the blades geometry already does that
yep and they were also known for being softer, having a soft steel for sharpening makes no sense if you understand sharpening, the burr is more difficult to remove, and in many cases leads to tare out. so it being harder is actually better for sharpening and it stays sharp longer, it might take 1 or 2 min longer but the results are far better even in the field. im not saying anything bad about crk knives i love them as well and im greatful that Tim has taken over and is making sure the hrc is on point
Unfortunately my frag Microtech MSI did the same thing so I sold it and will avoid other ramloks. I was tapping the spine as gently as you were and it snapped shut, which is unacceptable since I bought it as a work knife People say it's unnecessary, but I lost the bending of my pinky as a teen over a failed knife lock.
My applause to you my friend you’re just trying to figure it out like you said and trying to be honest. If they clap back it’s only cuz they know they are in the wrong that’s how you know shits facts by how they react keep it up Jared
I’ve noticed the past couple years, the high end cream of the crop US brands have been sending out a ton of duds or just bad engineering all together. It’s like they are A) resting on their success and don’t feel the need to QC, or B) they rush things out so fast to keep up with the Chinese made knives. Personally, I think it’s a mix of both. Just got burned on a Medford this week, two weeks ago it was a Hinderer doing this, 6 months ago it was a Curtis Custom. I think retailers are starting to hate me for returning so many knives at this point.
Magnacut overrated anyway. Can’t hold an edge like s45. Also you can’t trust knifesteelnerds testing they have a financial interest in pumping up demand for magnacut. Also Larin seems to have some sway at bladeforums. Anyone who questions his Magna testing or raises the financial conflict of interest gets banned…
Why do you continue to pay such insane prices for inferior knives?!? I would be FUMING if I paid over 300+ for a knife and it did what you presented....
There's a trick I saw on yt years ago using wet dry sandpaper on hinderers... putting a small strip in between the lockface and tang, engage and drag it out slowly a few times. It demonstrated a fix for spine wack failure with minimal effort. I'm looking for it now but can't seem to find it.
Any knife with the cost of a Hinderer, that requires ANY modding to function properly and safely should be totally disregarded when you’re thinking of buying a knife, lol
Well I appreciate the honesty! If you was buying a multi deployment flipper w/ 3 inch or under blade and couldn’t afford 250-300$ or more which knife would you recommend? I wish I could afford chaves kickstop but can’t realistically! Chaves and winter blade Severn are my most wanted knives just can’t afford em
i just beat the crap out of my desk trying to make my 3" xm18 slip and it would not fail. neither would my sebenza. but my hinderer ZT failed immediately.
My opinion for whatever its worth, is that Hinderer has been very successful over the years building up a great reputation, they've had great designs and great quality. People are just going to buy a Hinderer because it is a Hinderer, they can sell their knives for 500+ dollars, fail spine thwacks, run at low HRCs to save on cost because all their knives are still going to be sold out the moment it drops.
Maybe Hinderer is growing too fast, buying machinery,hiring more people,gotta pay the bills. Its all about profits,no pride in a product he created. Its a shame.,i buy american made because i expect better quality. Thank you for bringing this up Jarod. Your knowledge of blade steels is insane,and you disect things in a matter that no one else does. Thank you.
Or maybe they just want to overbuilt their knives. Like the blade to be even tougher, and the framelock to be even more long living. Thing is though, the framelock might have to wear in first, since they can engage more and more over time. Maybe they want to become the TOPS knives of folders hehe, they also are known to overbuilt their knives. Or was is Esee, probably both.
@@Leftyotism i have two xm 18 3 1/2 " that i bought back in 2012 ,i will have to spine whack them to see if the lock fails,i font remember if i had in the past.,mine dont have a steel lockbar interface but ivbelieve the Ti is carburized to prevent it from sticking or slipping. Honestly i havent used them in any way,i guess the Hinderer bug bit me at the time. Bought other knives to use shortly after .
dont do that unless you really want to, like i said i do really like his knives thats why i care so much, it sucks loving something so much that has these kind of downsides. are the tough knives or are the just supposed to be shelf jewelry
I was just inspecting a failing lock today wondering if a Hollow ground tang/lock up area would be less likely to do this.. Obviously a few things contribute to this but would interesting to see if there was a design more or less prone to this. Considerably early lockup atleast makes them easy to Re-grind if your already heavily invested.
Boy after watching this and reading the comments I am hesitant to buy a XM-18 or a CRK Sebenza. I want to stay USA made as most of my collection is but i feel like I’m running out of options…
How many of these are original as they came from the factory? How many have aftermarket parts or scales on them? How old are they? Are you willing to send all 8 to Hinderer to let them do their own testing and to fix any problems that may exist?
Hi Jarod good video not sure how some could take it the wrong way.Unless they don't eant yo hear it. I did the test before on several knives no fails.Iretested several ZT 0562, Manix 2xl ball lock CRK lge inkosi old Benchmade Subrosea frame lock several cross bar locks even couple Walker liner locks no failure's wacked. them pretty good10 times walkers supprised me did have it paded
I'm thinking higher HRC would need harder grinding stones or belts whatever is used. Making costs to go up some. And the bean counters rule the world. Companies need to be shown profits go down with lower HRC numbers.
A few years ago when RHK was called out the first time for selling soft Magnacut the average cost increase was only going to be $8 per knife to do the Magnacut correctly.
The problem now is that Hinderer burn edges sharpening. So perhaps they will burn it worse at higher hardness? But most of the grinding is done pre heat treatment. Finish grinding aft.
Set aside the lockup issues (ridiculous @ this price, IMO), is it possible that the heat treat processing or testing equipment on the current in-use generation of equipment can not reliably function at or above 64 Rockwell? Would going higher hardness force investment into new heat treat production and/or testing equipment?
Here’s the attention you were seeking… The creator of magnacut places the ideal heat treat as a range. You already said, a lower HRC gives the knife more toughness. What more are you looking for? If the experts say the blades are being produced to spec, who are you to say otherwise? And spine wack tests are still dumb AF.
Spine tests aren't a good test, in my opinion, because when your using the knife your hand is over the lock bar and putting pressure on it so if your using it like its intended your hands pressure on the lock bar will keep it from failing
That's crazy. I would really like to know what Hinderers response to this will be. I'll wait until they respond before I decide anything at all. That's only fair. But I'd really like to know why they have so many lock failures.......the lock on a folding knife, that's kind of an important part of the whole piece.
The solution to this problem are small companies that take the hit on profit from making a good knife with proper hrc while keeping it at a good price. Prime example is Kunwu, Sergio is able to make knives with peoper hrc AND sell them at an excellent price. Granted he manufacturers out of china but still. He also doesnt have the economy of scale that these other companies have. If kunwu, spyderco, houge, and tactile can do it then so can hinderer and microtech. These companies are just taking advantage of the paypigs and selling them soft steel as a "feature".
I KNOW IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS ONLY DIRECTED AT HINDERER KNIVES BUT ITS ABSOLUTELY NOT, THIS GOES FOR ANY COMPANY RUNNING LOW HRC ON ANY STEEL ON A POCKET KNIFE. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING PLEASE LEAVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS BELOW.
Honest question. Will you still carry your Hinderer with a faulty lock up? I just spine/tip whacked mine and it malfunctioned . Love the knife but not sure I can carry it
This is the kicker if it costs you say $500 for us to get one in the UK that price in dollars goes up just a bit with postage and handling fees then vat to wait for it and see if you would consider it such a good deal. Get ready Jerad $ 716.25 at today’s exchange rate. I can already hear you shouting no feking way would you pay that for a knife that if you sneeze it will unlock itself 😂🫵😘👍
Can you use 90 rubbing alcohol and clean off the lockface and tang. Just drench it in solution to get rid of lube and try again. Run the bearings dry too so no lube drips on the lock.
@@tacticalcenter8658 yes i have done that i shoulda said that, but since i say it all the time i figured people knew i woulda done that but thats my fault for not saying, someone did say i should change to teflon and see what happens so im gonna
@@NeevesKnives yeah I only mwntioend it cause I saw that video of someone calling you out on that and rhe washer vs bearings. But bearings shouldn't do that. Perhaps having bearings is just a marketing gimmick for Hinderers.
Last time someone made a video being critical of Hinderer he came after them with a lawsuit. This might be opening up a can of worms and some headaches. Clearly his ego is as fragile as the lock up on those knives. Thanks for having enough balls to put this out in the knife community.
lol. my guy folds like his lockbars
I'm ok with that, I think that would just cause bigger issues for him more than anything
Hinderer would be a fool to file suit for a video like this again. The community would eat him alive. The community will not put up with bullying again just as we didn't the first time.
@@NeevesKnivesHinderer would be stupid to try a lawsuit like that these days. Social media and the internet has made it much harder to get away with that kind of thing. It will cost them a great deal in reputation and reputation means sales.
I have not owned one since I had one fail on me years ago. But you are right.....if it's meant to hold an edge.....run the HT higher, they have zero reason not to.
If you're gonna charge $400+ for a knife, the hrc should be in the optimal range for the steel, and lock up should be like a bank vault. There are zero excuses for not doing it.
So do you have a Hinderer and did you see if it locked up solid? I checked mine and it locked up solid.
I agree completely!
@@scrick7112 I won't ever own or buy a hinderer. There over priced for what you get in my opinion plus Rick hinderer is one of the biggest assholes in the knife industry
Especially the lock. If all the major Chinese knife manufacturers can make a sub $100 knife with all of them having solid locks there is no excuse for this.
@@joeyy6918 I own knives that were $10 that have solid lockup
The HRC issue is one thing, having the damn lock fail on any knife is just ridiculous. At this dollar amount thats just sad
Thanks Jared for doing what very few in your position are willing to do , think all anyone who loves knives wants is for everything to get better, regardless of whether or not you use the knife hard or it sits in a case wanting better material , hrc , lock up and plain old integrity should be important to us all . Well done !
Nah, this is completely reasonable, and I think applies to many other flaws/shortcuts I keep seeing in “premium” knives generally. Lots of soft heat treats, uncentered blades, uneven grinds and edges, and massively-inflated prices that absolutely aren’t justified by either the materials or build quality
False , spydeco backs their toughness and hrc, and they’re a big company
@@havosoSpydercos are to be carried and used the ones he is talking about go in a case to be played with every now and then.
False, I use my hinderers when I rotate , I may not use for hard use , but I use at work box cutting mail and plastic and tape , as I am a truck driver , I use my shit
Love the brutal honesty brother! Everything should be fact based from a creator! Keep it up and thank you!!!
I’d trust Rick’s heat treat protocol - he knows what he is doing better than those other schmicks
*_Ladies and gentlemen this is how we the people hold manufacturers accountable, and push them to DO BETTER!_*
*_Your a real one Jerad!_*
*EDIT:* _For the record, I have 11 out of 13 Hinderers that also fail this easily! Now maybe people will believe it! I told you.. the rate of failure is _*_ASTOUNDING!_*
*_Lock-face geometry is as, if not more important than the blade geometry itself! After my realization of the rate of failure out there; I was infuriated to say the least that this is seemingly so easily overlooked by multiple & many big name manufacturers!_*
_(ALL Malibu's fail this easily also!)_
When you have used one a whole lot, wearing in that framelock, will it get stronger? 🤔
Because I have a theory that they overbuild their MagnaCut to be even more tough, and overbuilding their framelock to be extra long living. 🤔
Jerad also said one of his was fialing him before, but didn't this time around. Maybe that one wore in during that time since it failed. 🤔
Grab an attorney brother. I know Rick has a history of coming after people. 💯
When I buy my magnacut knife( haven't yet) it will be one with a guaranteed hrc of 63+. Microtech is the same way. They run their steels soft.
That's good to know. I was attracted to some of the magna cut microtech knives. There is no excuse for soft steels these days.
Because microtech is overrated overpriced garbage as well. Pieces of shit void the warranty if you sharpen it. What knife company voids the warranty if you sharpen it?? It’s a Fing knife!!
@@cfltitan 😆, I didn't know they void the warranty if you sharpen it. That is nuts.
@@kraftzion I have no clue what this guy is going on about, google and read the microtech warranty yourself, they DO NOT void the warranty if you sharpen your knife lol. They say if you damage or modify it during disassembly to sharpen it, it will be up to their discretion if it is covered free of charge or not.
They used to void warranty for that. They dont anymore. But they still don't like it when you do.
This is what Erica edc was talking about the other day.
Which episode, I want to watch!
Looks like someone is about to get a cease and desist order from ol Ricky! haha, but thank you for bringing this to light, I have my first hinderer coming and this will be the first thing I check, if it fails its going back. Not paying 425 for light lockup AND low HRC. Thanks!
Update after receiving my Hinderer Eklipse 3.5 harpoon tanto, spinewhacked and it didn’t flinch. No lock stick, sharp as a laser and centered, even grind, flawless assembly. Couldn’t be happier.
I’m with you I like Hinderer knives and have owned several but for the price they should be damn near flawless. I can buy a Glock for the price of some hinderer knives. If 6 out of every Glock failed what people keep shelling out money to buy them or maybe ask they fix their product?
good point
I’m with you. Just trying to have a discussion. Hinderer is proud of his knives. Why not make them tip top if you could? Change two things you can got from a C+ to an A+? The rational isn’t there I don’t get it. $400 to $500 for a pocket knife is a big ask for a lot of people. To not have the quality to back that price is almost a slap in the face to the buyers and community.
Glocks can have issues, but they are Law Enforcement standard issue for a reason. Personally, prefer Colt which was my issued sidearm inn the Army, which was far more reliable then the M-16, which was horrible but I love them anyway.
Imagine if every 6th shot the round would go into you instead of the target! The company would collapse. But with folding knives... 🤦🏻
Facts: Soft steel, Don't come sharp, lock fails rudimentary tests that budget knives breeze through. I have never been a hinderer fan because of astetics alone but that never made them bad knives to me...this does.
I have 4 Hinderers and they all passed. I guess I’m lucky. I really enjoy your channel Jerad and stay strong for the storm that’s coming. I appreciate what you do for the knife community. Thank you.
Thank you
Bro, so sorry for your loss. That is absolutely unacceptable. Goes to show that some companies are mass producing just because they will sell. Quality be damned!
Some of the old _ZT_ knives were like those Hinderers, especially the 200 - you could fold them shut like slip joints w/-out even unlocking the blade.
Exactly what I was thinking. Old ZT use to be my favorite knife company, and I still do have a soft spot for their products, but after 5 of my 7 frame-locks from them had failure (from similar pressure Jared's using), I couldn't stand even looking at them in my collection anymore and they all got sold. Funny enough is that like 3 or 4 of the 5 failed models I had were Hinderer designs as well lol
I think this is just a sign to stay away from HK until he's willing to compromise on their under performing steel and recorrect their lock face geometry on their frames.
Some... Try most. And new ones also. I love their designs so keep trying but the 0707 failed with the lightest taps ever. 0545 didn't take muct at all either.
I just checked my 3 XM-18s and my 24. All with steel lockbar inserts and all on bearings. I was whacking a whole lot harder than you and NONE failed! I do live your videos though. Keep them coming!
Jarred they aren’t going for toughness, they are going for lower cost grinding belt costs.
Didn’t you talk to a company and get different price points for different HRC, I’d be interested in what the difference between say 61 and 62 and 63 is.
It wouldn't be that big of a difference, it would definitely cost more but small businesses doit, why can't one of the leading companies doit, when others doit at half the cost
There are some knife channels that just greenlight every single sent knife to them, nothing negative is ever said. We know they are getting free knives and monetary incentives, but the viewers NEED honest information not an infomercial. Thank you for having a legitimate opinion.
Love your channel. I am not a blind fanboy of Hinderers, or any brand for that matter, but I do love Hinderer knives and I have 7 of them, 3 3inch XMs and 3 3.5 inch XMS and an Eklipse. After watching this video, I went and whack tested mine. None of them failed and I was hitting them pretty hard. Maybe the problem is batch specific or something? However, the HRC is definitely something I wish ALL knife brands would pay attention to! I guess we'll have to start speaking out with our wallets. Maybe if we only buy from brands with optimal heat treat, it would force knife companies into giving customers what they want and SHOULD get at these price points!
I know Vosteed started running their 14C28N higher. I'm seeing some M390 knives, very few, being released in 60-61. I think things are changing, (edit: so this is probably a good last time commenting on it)
yeah i hope to see a huge turn around most companies are going to want to please there market
For a $400-500 I'd expect only good steel and amazing edge retention and HRC... I'm buying Spyderco over Hinderer all day any day...
It's been a hot second since I watched an entire knife video all the way through. This was a banger bro. And I like the placement of the bike in the beginning too. Lol
I don't own one, I've had them before they hurt my fingers to open them. I just never was impressed with the knife. It was more hype than anything. Thanks for sharing great video
HindererDefenders are huffing on Copium rn
I have 3 Hinderers, 2 XM-24's and 1 Fulltrack. ALL 3 of them are in the Battlefield Pick Up configuration. I dont think any of them have ever failed their lockup on me. Id be willing to spinewhack test them on camera and even do a handheld HRC test on all 3 of my pieces just to get the info out there if others are interested.
I'm always interested in any information good or bad, regardless if it supports my argument or not. I think important to have the information
Thank you, Jarred for addressing this issue. They might as well be blading those knives with crap with that HRC. I can't see the value of not treating the magnacut right. Is it that difficult to heat treat it 2-3 more points? It really don't make it less tough.
Couldn't agree more! Some companies don't take critisism very well, which is their loss. I wish there were more companies like Spyderco who take their customers very serious and have one of the best customer service departments.
Only 1 of 4 of my RHKs failed, a 3” XM-18. When initially deployed, it has some lock rock, and can fail relatively easily, though as soon as I grip the handle, the lock tightens, and then I can’t get it to fail. No excuses, but at least this tends to be true with frame lock knives. The button lock knives that fail easily make me a lot more nervous about using them. The flipper tab also helps some for safety….again, no excuses. I’m really quite shocked with the results of your collection, but I always appreciate your honesty. I am very curious how Hinderer would address your specific knives. Thanks!
I just tested 2 eklipse, and 2 xm18’s on a 2x4, gave them some good whacks too, as I want to be confident when I use them. None of the 4 failed.
Glad I went with a Reeve inkosi instead of a xm-18
I'm scared to check my xm-18 3.5/s45. I spent a lot of money. I'm in shock 6 out 8 failed lock check. Damn. Thanks for making the video and maybe rining m day😢😂😂
Just checked my 2 Eklipse, and my 2 XM18, using a 2x4. None failed. I will not be spine whacking the XM18 auto 😆.
Actually crazy
So I just tested most of my knives, I had 3 failures. My Spyderco Tenacious in S35VN fails with very light taps to the spine, my Civivi Baby Banter also fails at very light taps, and my Civivi GTC Hypersonic fails with medium taps. This kinda sucks, I'm glad I watched this video, now I know to not use these knives on harder tasks, hell, I don't know if I want to use them at all. I'm really bummed because I liked those knives quite a bit, they might as well be double detent non-locking knives.
Certain knives don't blame toughness so it's more forgivable, but still disappointing. There are ways to help this issue in some cases easily some not so much but should you have to
They're worse than slipjoints; slips actually have features to prevent injury if they fold. 'Locking' knives that fail don't. The blade stop on those knives is bone.
@@Naptosis That's why I said double detent non-locking knives. Most of your double detent slip joints don't have a half stop.
What are peoples thoughts on flipperless hinderers with thumb studs so far back you can't use them so they're hard to deploy because their meant for assisting the lock up, not opening.
i honestly liked the flipperless ones myself, however i fear them failing and not having the flipper in the way, even though that can be a nightmare as well, ive have chunks pulled out from being pinched by knives opening and closing
Would higher hardness not increase the cost of manufacturing? Grinding belts,furnace time, hours on the clock, everything involved?
Yeah. you're paying a lot for these...
Yes. But they are already charging that premium.
exactly@@Cid_1
Only $5-$10 per knife. That’s what RH’s reputation is worth.. 5 to 10 dollars 😂
I only own knives I can trust fully. Spydercos and CRK, one MBK, one Kizer... When you do precise work on something that isn't on a table, you need a spine on which you can put some pressure. You need to be able to squeeze a knife without unlocking it too (some linerlocks are dangerous that way). It's simple testing of a model before selling it. Custom knife maker often break many blades before deciding which way to go for a particular steel and blade geometry.
Greetings from Czechia! Thank you Neeves for posting this video…i get tired of channels like MetalComplex with no objectivity..you show it like it is and that´s why you are the most reliable knife reviewer there is! Thanks mate!
Boo yah velonaaa took whack test like a trooper😊
That's exactly how my knuckle got cut to the bone on the first run vosteed Raccoon... finger pressure on the spine failed it. The people that say oh a knife doesn't need to be able to take a light spine whack and not fail are crazy. Yes we don't use our knives like that but what if your cutting in to something and the blade get stuck a little and you pull up on the knife to get it unstuck and BINGO lock fail will get the heck cut out of you. It's crazy that people will defend easily failing locks, yes we don't expect a lock to be 100% failsafe BUT we expect the lock to be a lock and keep us safe in common use. Simple as this, hinderer is using "toughness" as a scapegoat for lower grinding costs/time, nothing more nothing less.
Ive had a bunch of lock failures in normal use. Especially zt.
Im imagining way back when i was a dumb little kid stabbing into things with the old school single blade victorinox, the "classic" non locking one. That was my personal first day of first aid class on myself so my parents didnt find out lol, very unnecessary
😆 I think we all have a similar memory
Yup! I did the same lol. At 8 I was trying to cut open a tennis ball with a slip joint. I burried all the bloody rags in the trash so my folks wouldn't find out and take the knife away. 😏
Leatherman arc has a very low hrc for Magnacut too. I was disappointed after I’d bought one first.
you know thats a company i would kinda expect, since people are doing real hard use things with the tools, yeah its a blade but a lot of people pick and pry with them and they are not super thick geometry
@@NeevesKnivesThat makes sense to me.
Maybe though, just maybe, Leatherman could make their blades purely for cutting and edge holding, and add a tough-ass prybar thing to fold out to not have the compromise of wanting a tougher blade. But then there is also warranty, lol.
You are Pure ChiTown brother, I love your honesty and lack of care about what haters will say!!!!
❤ChiTown❤
At this point he clearly doesn't care about providing the best product available. He's not only defended it but doubled down and threatened to sue anyone talking about it. It's a shame because it's an excellent design. I take personally at this point, like being spat on
I'd like to see him try and sue someone over this. It'd probably be thrown out as a frivolous lawsuit, or he'd lose.
I'm ok with it if it comes to that, I don't think it will as it would only make him look bad
I got my first Hinderer a month ago. It's a xm-18 3.5 slicer in s45vn. Until now, I thought it was a pretty cool knife. . .🤔
Did it fail when you spine whacked it? My RHK’s all passed which relieved some of the nervousness of carrying one.
I think toughness is a relative term. Not everyone uses knives the same way, or has the same expectations. Many people use and abuse their knives. I had a Leatherman Skeletool blade in 154cm break in half. I was trying to dig an arrowhead out of a tree. Called Leatherman, they said they couldn't replace it with the same serrated version in 154cm. I could get 154 in fine edge or I think 420 in serrated. I take that as an indication that the 154 was brittle, and has a weak spot in the serrations. I went for 154 in fine edge. Got the knife back and I still love it. I love the edge retention of the 154 version. Did I abuse the knife? I don't think so, some would disagree.
i wouldnt take it that way personally i would guess they just didnt make any more with serrations possibly because they were the least purchased, any steel can have a bad heat treatment ive snapped many blades do to that as well. Leatherman is usually known for running them on the softer side which i can understand why
I would sell all of those and never buy another one. What a sham
Shoulda sold em on bladeforums before posting the video.
I love their knives too (different steels, and never tried the spine whack) but that grind is tough to deal with exclusively. I was deciding whether to buy my first Half Track I’ve wanted forever, or my first Chris Reeve. I think this made up my mind.
Why keep buying them? Especially when 6 out of 8 fail? Not sure if I can get on board w/ Hinderer
Like I said I do love hinderer knives, I actually didn't know about the failure issue until recently. It's a tough board to recommend at this point so I don't blame you
I did drop my Hogue Deka when I was changing scales, about a 2 foot drop right on the tip. It did chip it the smallest bit, I was able to sharpen it away.
Didn’t you say in another video that the tap test doesn’t mean anything?
Thank you for this Jerad.. Take note, folding knife production companies.. Bring back quality control before people start to notice you're slacking at a professional level - won't be good for your bottom line. Part of the reason I'm moving away from folding knives these days..
I do not know or understand how to make steel and knives but my question is Does it cost more to deliver a higher HRC? Could it be a business decision why Hinderer runs their MC lower?
I didn’t believe you. Then i took my every day carry xm-18 and gave it some pretty light taps and the lock failed just like in this video. Never had a problem when using in the real world, but now i know to be careful and be aware that it can fail. Always thought it was bullet proof. Wow
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and talk knives ! I know you’re busy but it means a lot! Keep up the great show and content nice escape to look forward to watching NN 💯🙏🏽🔥
I guarantee a slipjoint can take a better spinewack than a hinderer framelock 😂
💯 My Spyderco UK Penknife can take a harder whack than those frame 'locks'.
My skinny slicer does the same thing. I don’t know what to think.
mine too
Serious question: Does Hinderer not test their knives?
I would guess no at this point, last year I woulda said yes I'm not so sure now these are all different years
I would argue they don’t sharpen them at least.
I have note only been to the Hinderer Manufacturing facility but have gotten to work as an assembler. Every knife is spine whack tested by the assembler. Then they are tested again before sharpening. The lock failure has been a non issue for years. We just tested 31 brand new Hinderer Knives and posted a video of it. All 31 stayed locked up with zero issues and we were knocking them way harder than the ones in this video!
@@usamadeblade7545 i just watched your video and want to thank you for being straight forward and putting your self on the line by doing it in front of a camera it truly says a lot. im happy that yours did well
I'm curious, out of all of those, how many had an "aftermarket" scale on the show side? I noticed when i swaped my show side scale from a g10 to a titanium the lockup wasn't quite as strong as it was with the g10 scale..
Most were scales from hinderer not aftermarket they are hinderer scales
Do companys just run their steel soft. Just to save time/money sharpening?
Still trying to figure out the connection between HRC and lock fails
the connection is if its supposed to be a tough knife with thick geometry then why does it fail so easily, i know a lot of other people have had this issue as well im sure its not all of them nor most of them. i just dont understand going with thick geometry and a softer side heat treatment
Gotcha, thanks for explaining.
I definitely agree an expensive knife shouldn’t fail like that, another notorious one is the Lamia.
I just don’t think HRC should be correlated to lockup.
It should be two different topics: Why do thick knives marketed as hard users have a low HRC; and why do expensive knives have locks that fail.
I would definitely be mad if a lock fail caused an injury like yours but otherwise I think a situation where the spine is taking an impact is pretty rare. I do think of a situation when you’re camping without an axe and use a log to strike a knife to split bigger pieces in half (vertically). I would be super annoyed if the lock kept failing.
@@iamamind I think you are missing the point and maybe its my fault, geometry only is thick for toughness, it does nothing for cutting, so if you want a knife to be a good cutter it needs thin geometry, geometry is the number 1 thing to any knife second is heat treatment. so why are they thick if not for being a tough knife would you ever call a folding knife tough that fails from a 3 lb fail? as far as the heat treatment, softer is tougher harder has more edge retention, so why would you sacrifice it holding its edge for toughness when the blades geometry already does that
Chris Reeves used to run their s35 VN software for field sharpening. I believe it was around 57/58 HRC
yep and they were also known for being softer, having a soft steel for sharpening makes no sense if you understand sharpening, the burr is more difficult to remove, and in many cases leads to tare out. so it being harder is actually better for sharpening and it stays sharp longer, it might take 1 or 2 min longer but the results are far better even in the field. im not saying anything bad about crk knives i love them as well and im greatful that Tim has taken over and is making sure the hrc is on point
Unfortunately my frag Microtech MSI did the same thing so I sold it and will avoid other ramloks. I was tapping the spine as gently as you were and it snapped shut, which is unacceptable since I bought it as a work knife
People say it's unnecessary, but I lost the bending of my pinky as a teen over a failed knife lock.
My applause to you my friend you’re just trying to figure it out like you said and trying to be honest. If they clap back it’s only cuz they know they are in the wrong that’s how you know shits facts by how they react keep it up Jared
Yeah no idea why you’d buy one in 2024 unless you just love how they look 🤷🏻♂️
I’ve noticed the past couple years, the high end cream of the crop US brands have been sending out a ton of duds or just bad engineering all together. It’s like they are A) resting on their success and don’t feel the need to QC, or B) they rush things out so fast to keep up with the Chinese made knives. Personally, I think it’s a mix of both. Just got burned on a Medford this week, two weeks ago it was a Hinderer doing this, 6 months ago it was a Curtis Custom. I think retailers are starting to hate me for returning so many knives at this point.
Magnacut overrated anyway. Can’t hold an edge like s45. Also you can’t trust knifesteelnerds testing they have a financial interest in pumping up demand for magnacut. Also Larin seems to have some sway at bladeforums. Anyone who questions his Magna testing or raises the financial conflict of interest gets banned…
Why do you continue to pay such insane prices for inferior knives?!? I would be FUMING if I paid over 300+ for a knife and it did what you presented....
Will Hinderer warranty these if we have a model that fails?
They should yes, but I'm not sure the criteria of which they will say it's abuse
There's a trick I saw on yt years ago using wet dry sandpaper on hinderers... putting a small strip in between the lockface and tang, engage and drag it out slowly a few times. It demonstrated a fix for spine wack failure with minimal effort. I'm looking for it now but can't seem to find it.
Any knife with the cost of a Hinderer, that requires ANY modding to function properly and safely should be totally disregarded when you’re thinking of buying a knife, lol
Kudos to that company pulling stock to fix the problem.
Absolutely!
Well I appreciate the honesty! If you was buying a multi deployment flipper w/ 3 inch or under blade and couldn’t afford 250-300$ or more which knife would you recommend? I wish I could afford chaves kickstop but can’t realistically! Chaves and winter blade Severn are my most wanted knives just can’t afford em
if you want multiple deployments for a good value check out knives from Kizer, Civivi makes some great affordable knives as well
i just beat the crap out of my desk trying to make my 3" xm18 slip and it would not fail. neither would my sebenza. but my hinderer ZT failed immediately.
Hell yeah bro! Great clip. Was a great episode.
My opinion for whatever its worth, is that Hinderer has been very successful over the years building up a great reputation, they've had great designs and great quality. People are just going to buy a Hinderer because it is a Hinderer, they can sell their knives for 500+ dollars, fail spine thwacks, run at low HRCs to save on cost because all their knives are still going to be sold out the moment it drops.
Respectfully done 👍
Those mavericks seem nice and very light.
Maybe Hinderer is growing too fast, buying machinery,hiring more people,gotta pay the bills.
Its all about profits,no pride in a product he created.
Its a shame.,i buy american made because i expect better quality.
Thank you for bringing this up Jarod.
Your knowledge of blade steels is insane,and you disect things in a matter that no one else does.
Thank you.
Or maybe they just want to overbuilt their knives. Like the blade to be even tougher, and the framelock to be even more long living. Thing is though, the framelock might have to wear in first, since they can engage more and more over time. Maybe they want to become the TOPS knives of folders hehe, they also are known to overbuilt their knives. Or was is Esee, probably both.
@@Leftyotism i have two xm 18 3 1/2 " that i bought back in 2012 ,i will have to spine whack them to see if the lock fails,i font remember if i had in the past.,mine dont have a steel lockbar interface but ivbelieve the Ti is carburized to prevent it from sticking or slipping.
Honestly i havent used them in any way,i guess the Hinderer bug bit me at the time.
Bought other knives to use shortly after .
@@sergior.carreno5568Hmmm. Make sure you don't damage them haha! =)
Man bro I have two 24 bowies and a skinny and an eklipse, thinking of getting rid of them now
dont do that unless you really want to, like i said i do really like his knives thats why i care so much, it sucks loving something so much that has these kind of downsides. are the tough knives or are the just supposed to be shelf jewelry
I’m going to spine whack when I get home from work 😢😢😢
@@havoso if it's more than 3 times your just playing with it 😉
Just spine whacked my iridium cf m390 and it passed the test , I decided to keep it it’s too exclusive to get rid of it
I was just inspecting a failing lock today wondering if a Hollow ground tang/lock up area would be less likely to do this.. Obviously a few things contribute to this but would interesting to see if there was a design more or less prone to this. Considerably early lockup atleast makes them easy to Re-grind if your already heavily invested.
Easier on the makers tools, the shorter the edge lasts the more the consumer has to sharpen, equals having to buy another one sooner.
Damn! Bars
I'm down to my last hinderer. Halftrack warnie.
Boy after watching this and reading the comments I am hesitant to buy a XM-18 or a CRK Sebenza. I want to stay USA made as most of my collection is but i feel like I’m running out of options…
Stay tough, not low hrc tough 😂
Lol
are the pivots loose on your hinderers or something? i've had loads of them and they've all had super solid locks...
no not at all, all are perfectly centered no play at all
@@NeevesKnives weird dude. i'm not like a hinderer guy or whatever but that does seem highly uncharacteristic
Even with a loose pivot, they shouldn't fail. My slipjoints have more resistance than these Hinderers.
How many of these are original as they came from the factory? How many have aftermarket parts or scales on them? How old are they? Are you willing to send all 8 to Hinderer to let them do their own testing and to fix any problems that may exist?
EXACTLY,,,,,,,👍🏻
Great video brother and all well thought out and valid points thank you for posting this it’s much appreciated 👊🏼
Hi Jarod good video not sure how some could take it the wrong way.Unless they don't eant yo hear it.
I did the test before on several knives no fails.Iretested
several ZT 0562, Manix 2xl ball lock
CRK lge inkosi old Benchmade Subrosea frame lock several cross bar locks
even couple Walker liner locks
no failure's wacked. them pretty good10 times walkers supprised me did have it paded
I'm thinking higher HRC would need harder grinding stones or belts whatever is used. Making costs to go up some. And the bean counters rule the world. Companies need to be shown profits go down with lower HRC numbers.
A few years ago when RHK was called out the first time for selling soft Magnacut the average cost increase was only going to be $8 per knife to do the Magnacut correctly.
Medford had quoted his price increase to be $5 per knife to do the Magnacut correct.
They already charge a lot. They could even increase costs a bit and people would gladly pay for the higher hardness.
The problem now is that Hinderer burn edges sharpening. So perhaps they will burn it worse at higher hardness? But most of the grinding is done pre heat treatment. Finish grinding aft.
Technically its easier to sharpen at 63-64 though.
I had a skinny XM18 in M390, sharpened it twice (first was a reprofile) and it still wouldn’t hold an edge for shit 🤦🏻
What compounds/abrasives do you use when you sharpen your own knives?
Haven’t had a hinderer in a while. Won’t again any time soon. Les George and CRK for me.
Set aside the lockup issues (ridiculous @ this price, IMO), is it possible that the heat treat processing or testing equipment on the current in-use generation of equipment can not reliably function at or above 64 Rockwell? Would going higher hardness force investment into new heat treat production and/or testing equipment?
Here’s the attention you were seeking…
The creator of magnacut places the ideal heat treat as a range. You already said, a lower HRC gives the knife more toughness. What more are you looking for?
If the experts say the blades are being produced to spec, who are you to say otherwise?
And spine wack tests are still dumb AF.
Next up, Billy Mays!
Spine tests aren't a good test, in my opinion, because when your using the knife your hand is over the lock bar and putting pressure on it so if your using it like its intended your hands pressure on the lock bar will keep it from failing
That's crazy. I would really like to know what Hinderers response to this will be. I'll wait until they respond before I decide anything at all. That's only fair. But I'd really like to know why they have so many lock failures.......the lock on a folding knife, that's kind of an important part of the whole piece.
The solution to this problem are small companies that take the hit on profit from making a good knife with proper hrc while keeping it at a good price. Prime example is Kunwu, Sergio is able to make knives with peoper hrc AND sell them at an excellent price. Granted he manufacturers out of china but still. He also doesnt have the economy of scale that these other companies have. If kunwu, spyderco, houge, and tactile can do it then so can hinderer and microtech. These companies are just taking advantage of the paypigs and selling them soft steel as a "feature".
I tried my 3.5 eklipse bowie full ti with klein regrind and shes solid as can be. Hinderer has been 1 of the og's in the knife game.
I wonder if this is why CRK and Spyderco omit the insert?