So what I'm getting from this - since everyone seems to be 'so confused~', apparently - Is that weapon recoil is reduced/outright negated in some cases, when moving your aim. _Meaning,_ the faster your mouse sends updates to your computer, the more consistently your aim registers as 'moving' - which triggers the aforementioned recoil compensation, up until the game *forces it* though a 'shot limit' value. Right? Do I have that right? Pin me, to show how right I am.
This applies in other games to some degree, people sometimes use an input adapter such as a cronus or xim to constantly wiggle their crosshair and movement slightly to abuse aim assist and recoil. (also to get AA on mouse and keyboard) I don't know if this is as big of a problem in halo as it is cod, apex, the finals, and overwatch.
@@wenimechoinasama2 Alright but am I the only one who can't stand aim assist in a lot of cases? Like I get it.. but I have _such a hard time_ keeping it straight in my brain. I'm a controller player, but having to separate 'active aim assist' to not in my brain is just.. so _rough_ for me.. because it messes with my muscle memory. I guess, one way I've learned to cope with it in games like Halo is to imagine 'okay, we're locked on now', when bringing it closer to a target. "We've got locked on muscle memory, and *not* locked on muscle memory," but even then. Not having the sense to internalize that from the time I was too young to understand it, *actively* f•cks with me _to this day._ In Battlefield (because the aim is usually tuned okay. That sh•t is *impossible* for me to tune right in 2042), I'll usually turn it off, because a target cutting in front of my current pulls me off and I *hate* that. Sure it takes some getting used to. But that was my go-to for Battlefield 1 on PS4, and I dog tagged *every weapon* in that game.
@@ThatTallBrendan I agree, we are also in a weird state where mouse is only competitive up to a certain point in games with strong aim assist. That being said, I still prefer mouse on halo infinite because the max sensitivity on controller is too slow for me.
@@wenimechoinasama2 That's a fair point. Idk. I just feel like properly tuned stick aiming doesn't even need it if you're good enough, but I lack the knowledge of how to tune it myself. They give you so many options in games nowadays but like - idk man. Just give me a old school Battlefield setting in everything and I'll be fine.
@@ThatTallBrendan if you do want to tune your stick response curve, etc You can look into ds4windows, It does require a ps4 or ps5 controller, but it allows full control over the device, from remapping, to a suite of settings for each stick. "enhanced precision" is what I use for right stick aiming in most games.
not a halo player but this is an incredibly impressive video. lot of effort for 6 minutes of 'content' lmao. keep up the good work! on a side note, it's so interesting seeing the debate on peripherals, at what point is the equipment you use 'cheating' 🤔
i used the victrix gambit for a long time and swaped to the flydigi apex 4 and honestly having higher polling for a long time now and this is indeed tru having already aiming muscle memory adding more controll imputs for negating recoil help alot and lets you make ultra small adjustments on controller input locked games and actualy lets me be more comfortable at longer ranges but this is kinda pulled back with higher FOV witch makes things far away smaller making it instictively make you not want you engage at longer ranges i find around 90 fov is best for mitigating this used to use 105
Idont know if this is useful information, but the ps5 controller on pc with ds4, or dsx (which are both extremely popular with CDL pros) can go up to 8000hz. I wonder if this makes the effect more prominent on controller.
I dont see what this has to do with polling rate. This feels like the problem all stems from Infinites dumb recoil system, Apex Legends has somthing similar where as long as ur tracking past a certain speed u get the reduced recoil but as soon u go below that specifiied tracking speed the recoil goes back 2 its full value and sure u can still expliot it with jitter aiming but even that seems to take more skill than just pull down slighty b4 you shoot, of which the only thing polling rate does is shorten the delay it takes to get into the exploit from 1ms to .125ms which is not a 'problem' unique to infinte. Spraying in Counter Strike feels more responsive on 8k and jitter aiming in apex also becomes easier for the same reason. Hardware isnt the problem its the exploits and if its ultimate standardization you want then Halo should of never stopped being a console exclusive.
What I want is to inform, and from the looks of things I have accomplished it! You hit the nail on the head that this is a issue because infinites recoil system is being bypassed in a way even I would go out of my way and say is very dumb. What I will say is that the change in polling rate does not JUST shorten the delay it takes to get into the exploit, it also at the higher polling rates allows a player to enter the exploit accidentally! A lot of high end players of games dont think of all this "nerd shit" as i like to call it. They just do what works. They feel their way to their perfect settings, fall into optimised habits that land them more kills consistently. Players already picked up on higher polling rates feeling better on both inputs long before this video. It just wasnt known the exacts of why. The issue is that because of this sometimes just happening for higher polling players, new players are not only unaware of what exactly that super good unkillable player is doing differently from them or that they cant even do it as consistently as said player if their input device doesnt even allow for them to do the exploit as often as the player in question. To layer on top of this. that super skilled unkillable player wouldnt even be able to put to words what they are doing either! Since so many people just default to something akin to "idk you just feel it" The ironic thing is that even with all this research, and time looking into the systems directly, even I will have to say "idk you just feel the exploit if you do it right". Its why the surveyed players were so valuable to me in just continuing to look into this when at points i just didnt want to put it out. Anyways im yappin. Thank you very much for you time and interest in the video
Pull down as if you controlled recoil BEFORE you fire, then fire. On higher polling rates this bypasses recoil. Atleast untill a setting called "View Kick Shots Fired To Max Out Multiplier Function" works as a traffic stop and fixes your recoil. Some weapons dont have this limit like the Battle Rifle and the Bandit Evo.
@@snihyper No. From testing of my own there are checks in place that make it so this does not happen. Made a tweet on it a while back so here you go: x.com/impliedskill/status/1761156338313494711
The mouse i personally used in the making of this video was the "Razor Viper 8khz" If you are looking to upgrade to a higher polling rate mouse, make sure that the high polling rate that is being advertised to be possible on the mouse sensor is a true 8000 polling rate and not 4000 polling rate being reported twice at one time. Some manufacturers like corsair do this since they are technically hitting 8khz but in a roundabout way.
Here is what I take away from this video: -Halo Infinite surprisingly supports 8K mice natively, which kind of makes sense since it is competitively focused. - Halo Infinite has a really buggy view kick scalar that doesn't function well with faster updating peripherals, or just refusing to function at all in some cases like with the spinning test. That sounds like a 343i issue. - People are pushing for faster peripherals on both console and PC, which honestly I don't see as a problem. At the highest level of play, people want the most advantages they can get. You see it in most competitive games, Valorant is all about HE Keyboards as the benefits to movement are important. So if people have reached their peak performance wise, adding one extra advantage is not an issue, especially since high polling rate peripherals are extremely accessible now. - The thing you forgot to mention, your mouse never runs at 8K polling rate unless you are moving it rapidly (even wired mice unless its something like the OP1 8k from Endgame Gear, don't run in 8K consistently). In the terms of recoil control, you are never really moving the mouse fast enough to get 8K polling to work properly as what polling rate determines is the amount of data that gets sent from the sensor to the USB and then to your PC, so if you are moving the mouse a lot the sensor will feed those updates consistently. But the more consistent those updates are the more FPS you will lose, that is why games that "support 8k" most of the time have buffers in place to minimize the impact to performance. To explain how that works, your CPU can run the game at 240FPS but your mouse is running at 8000hz sending 8000 bits of data every second. Your CPU may get overloaded with data it has no use for, so you will feel the game hitch or stutter. In the case of most games that support 8K polling, they simplify the stream of data down to a manageable polling rate for the engine and PC to handle so while your mouse can send 8000hz worth of data, the game won't register that at all instead taking what it needs say 1000hz worth of data and using that instead to not overload the computer to keep FPS high and smooth. I don't know wether Halo Infinite has a buffer like that in place or not, that would probably take a deconstruction of the games code. - The other factor that feeds 8K polling rate is DPI settings, the lower the DPI the less benefit 8K polling in any game will be so at the most common 800DPI setting, you will not see any benefits of 8K polling at all or if they are there its extremely minor. However step into 1600-3200 DPI ranges and that higher polling rate will be noticed more as the sensor has enough data to really utilize it.
Happy to see a 86 fan around these parts! Your correct on all of these things. If these devices WERE running at the full 8khz at all times i would worry about the health of any cpu over just one play session. Something I do want to mention is that in Halo lots of people have been trying to optimize frame times and input delay so the vast majority of competative players that Ive interacted with have been running 1600+ dpi. So I kind of forgot that its not the norm in gaming as a whole XD From what I have been able to see in regards to if infinite has a buffer, It does not. In the making of this video I used and tested various methods of aiming in Infinite like mouse acceleration and even gyro aiming for a time. For both methods it looks like halo just lets you go crazy untill you just bring your cpu to its knees.
@@ImpliedSkill I have to rep a good anime, glad to see someone recognize the pfp. Now that more of the puzzle pieces are falling into line with the higher dpi of Halo M&K players, Infinite potentially not having a buffer for raw input data and the sensors not running at their full 8000hz polling rate. I am now starting to wonder if its not something server side in combination with high polling rate mice. As we know the standard Xbox Controller updates at a polling rate of 125hz, and Halo Infinite's servers run at a tick rate of 60hz (even private matches connect you to a dedicated server). But with these higher polling rate devices at 8000hz, I am thinking and its entirely speculation that the combination of sending a huge volume of data in combination with the 60hz tick rate on the server is causing the game to basically be overloaded with data so when you are pulling down the game's server is just registering that data as 'oh the player is pulling down the mouse' at a more consistent rate than with a controller or lower polling rate mouse that has a chance to leave a gap and mismatch with the tick rate of the server. So in theory you aren't cheating because the mouse is bypassing the recoil in the same way a script would, but instead your mouse is giving such a consistent stream of data to the server that its just registering your movements on every single tick, making it feel like the recoil scalar isn't doing its job properly.
@@Kurokeet you might be right honestly. I just hope that people become more aware that its in fact a advantage. Wont get you on mainstage on its own tho!
@@ImpliedSkill Oh of course, it is like the Turkish shooter at the Olympics proved. You can have the fanciest and best gear to give yourself every advantage possible, but you will never beat out raw talent.
Not to be mean but it seems like you still "don't have enough proof." I *almost* get what you are trying to get across with this video, but what you actually say is "higher polling rates update your input more often, giving you more control"... which is the whole point of a higher polling rate?
You are right, the point of higher polling rates are to give more control. The main issue is that in Infinite its not just giving more control to the higher polling rate player, its making it a non factor untill they hit the "View Kick Shots Fired To Max Out Multiplier Function". This is also only if the weapon being used even has a V.K.S.F.T.M.O.M.F limit. With the Battle Rifle and the Bandit Evo not having such a limit or check. Instead of polling rate giving more control, but you are still experiencing the same recoil as someone else on a lower polling rate device, you are skiping it entirely. I guess in a on the spot anology (forgive me here XD) Instead of riding the wave if you are a surfer, and having more fins on your surf board to get more maneuverability, your extra fins are letting you fly over the incoming wave.
I've never liked Infinite recoil on mouse, you have to account for the recoil and aim at the same time, so you have to awkwardly pull down and aim, never liked it
Bro ….🤦♂️343 is just going to ban polling rates higher than a 1000 all for recoil that’s a nothing burger issue. Now everyone that is use to dpi and sense and polling rate after years of playing will have to start from scratch and have the game not feel as good
![일상 속 기분 좋음 [Proto disco meme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DwmEIaZ7XGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
So what I'm getting from this - since everyone seems to be 'so confused~', apparently - Is that weapon recoil is reduced/outright negated in some cases, when moving your aim.
_Meaning,_ the faster your mouse sends updates to your computer, the more consistently your aim registers as 'moving' - which triggers the aforementioned recoil compensation, up until the game *forces it* though a 'shot limit' value.
Right? Do I have that right? Pin me, to show how right I am.
This applies in other games to some degree, people sometimes use an input adapter such as a cronus or xim to constantly wiggle their crosshair and movement slightly to abuse aim assist and recoil. (also to get AA on mouse and keyboard) I don't know if this is as big of a problem in halo as it is cod, apex, the finals, and overwatch.
@@wenimechoinasama2 Alright but am I the only one who can't stand aim assist in a lot of cases?
Like I get it.. but I have _such a hard time_ keeping it straight in my brain.
I'm a controller player, but having to separate 'active aim assist' to not in my brain is just.. so _rough_ for me.. because it messes with my muscle memory.
I guess, one way I've learned to cope with it in games like Halo is to imagine 'okay, we're locked on now', when bringing it closer to a target. "We've got locked on muscle memory, and *not* locked on muscle memory," but even then. Not having the sense to internalize that from the time I was too young to understand it, *actively* f•cks with me _to this day._
In Battlefield (because the aim is usually tuned okay. That sh•t is *impossible* for me to tune right in 2042), I'll usually turn it off, because a target cutting in front of my current pulls me off and I *hate* that.
Sure it takes some getting used to. But that was my go-to for Battlefield 1 on PS4, and I dog tagged *every weapon* in that game.
@@ThatTallBrendan I agree, we are also in a weird state where mouse is only competitive up to a certain point in games with strong aim assist. That being said, I still prefer mouse on halo infinite because the max sensitivity on controller is too slow for me.
@@wenimechoinasama2 That's a fair point. Idk. I just feel like properly tuned stick aiming doesn't even need it if you're good enough, but I lack the knowledge of how to tune it myself.
They give you so many options in games nowadays but like - idk man. Just give me a old school Battlefield setting in everything and I'll be fine.
@@ThatTallBrendan if you do want to tune your stick response curve, etc You can look into ds4windows, It does require a ps4 or ps5 controller, but it allows full control over the device, from remapping, to a suite of settings for each stick. "enhanced precision" is what I use for right stick aiming in most games.
not a halo player but this is an incredibly impressive video. lot of effort for 6 minutes of 'content' lmao. keep up the good work! on a side note, it's so interesting seeing the debate on peripherals, at what point is the equipment you use 'cheating' 🤔
Thank you very much for taking interest and for the praise!
i used the victrix gambit for a long time and swaped to the flydigi apex 4 and honestly having higher polling for a long time now and this is indeed tru having already aiming muscle memory adding more controll imputs for negating recoil help alot and lets you make ultra small adjustments on controller input locked games and actualy lets me be more comfortable at longer ranges but this is kinda pulled back with higher FOV witch makes things far away smaller making it instictively make you not want you engage at longer ranges i find around 90 fov is best for mitigating this used to use 105
Idont know if this is useful information, but the ps5 controller on pc with ds4, or dsx (which are both extremely popular with CDL pros) can go up to 8000hz. I wonder if this makes the effect more prominent on controller.
Havent heard of this! Ill take a look into it when I free up some time.
1:54 TyraSnipes No scopes being 69,420 lol
She is a beast. Amazing player and person.
I dont see what this has to do with polling rate. This feels like the problem all stems from Infinites dumb recoil system, Apex Legends has somthing similar where as long as ur tracking past a certain speed u get the reduced recoil but as soon u go below that specifiied tracking speed the recoil goes back 2 its full value and sure u can still expliot it with jitter aiming but even that seems to take more skill than just pull down slighty b4 you shoot, of which the only thing polling rate does is shorten the delay it takes to get into the exploit from 1ms to .125ms which is not a 'problem' unique to infinte. Spraying in Counter Strike feels more responsive on 8k and jitter aiming in apex also becomes easier for the same reason. Hardware isnt the problem its the exploits and if its ultimate standardization you want then Halo should of never stopped being a console exclusive.
Also I bet most of these 'exploits' where deliberate in order to buff controllers since it was Halo's first new PC launch since CE
What I want is to inform, and from the looks of things I have accomplished it!
You hit the nail on the head that this is a issue because infinites recoil system is being bypassed in a way even I would go out of my way and say is very dumb.
What I will say is that the change in polling rate does not JUST shorten the delay it takes to get into the exploit, it also at the higher polling rates allows a player to enter the exploit accidentally!
A lot of high end players of games dont think of all this "nerd shit" as i like to call it. They just do what works. They feel their way to their perfect settings, fall into optimised habits that land them more kills consistently. Players already picked up on higher polling rates feeling better on both inputs long before this video. It just wasnt known the exacts of why.
The issue is that because of this sometimes just happening for higher polling players, new players are not only unaware of what exactly that super good unkillable player is doing differently from them or that they cant even do it as consistently as said player if their input device doesnt even allow for them to do the exploit as often as the player in question.
To layer on top of this. that super skilled unkillable player wouldnt even be able to put to words what they are doing either! Since so many people just default to something akin to "idk you just feel it"
The ironic thing is that even with all this research, and time looking into the systems directly, even I will have to say "idk you just feel the exploit if you do it right".
Its why the surveyed players were so valuable to me in just continuing to look into this when at points i just didnt want to put it out.
Anyways im yappin. Thank you very much for you time and interest in the video
Bruh im not even sure what youre saying here 😂 if you pull down with higher polling rate it reduces recoil more than with a lower polling rate?
Pull down as if you controlled recoil BEFORE you fire, then fire. On higher polling rates this bypasses recoil. Atleast untill a setting called "View Kick Shots Fired To Max Out Multiplier Function" works as a traffic stop and fixes your recoil. Some weapons dont have this limit like the Battle Rifle and the Bandit Evo.
off topic question: why your controls UI are flickering?
On halo you can play with half a controller and the mouse. I happen to do it since I have wrist issues and its more comforable for me this way.
@@ImpliedSkill does that mean you'll have extra aim assist?
@@snihyper No. From testing of my own there are checks in place that make it so this does not happen.
Made a tweet on it a while back so here you go:
x.com/impliedskill/status/1761156338313494711
I stopped playing. Once it comes out on UE5 I'll try again. Slip space is trash
what mouse do you use?
The mouse i personally used in the making of this video was the "Razor Viper 8khz"
If you are looking to upgrade to a higher polling rate mouse, make sure that the high polling rate that is being advertised to be possible on the mouse sensor is a true 8000 polling rate and not 4000 polling rate being reported twice at one time. Some manufacturers like corsair do this since they are technically hitting 8khz but in a roundabout way.
Here is what I take away from this video:
-Halo Infinite surprisingly supports 8K mice natively, which kind of makes sense since it is competitively focused.
- Halo Infinite has a really buggy view kick scalar that doesn't function well with faster updating peripherals, or just refusing to function at all in some cases like with the spinning test. That sounds like a 343i issue.
- People are pushing for faster peripherals on both console and PC, which honestly I don't see as a problem. At the highest level of play, people want the most advantages they can get. You see it in most competitive games, Valorant is all about HE Keyboards as the benefits to movement are important. So if people have reached their peak performance wise, adding one extra advantage is not an issue, especially since high polling rate peripherals are extremely accessible now.
- The thing you forgot to mention, your mouse never runs at 8K polling rate unless you are moving it rapidly (even wired mice unless its something like the OP1 8k from Endgame Gear, don't run in 8K consistently). In the terms of recoil control, you are never really moving the mouse fast enough to get 8K polling to work properly as what polling rate determines is the amount of data that gets sent from the sensor to the USB and then to your PC, so if you are moving the mouse a lot the sensor will feed those updates consistently. But the more consistent those updates are the more FPS you will lose, that is why games that "support 8k" most of the time have buffers in place to minimize the impact to performance.
To explain how that works, your CPU can run the game at 240FPS but your mouse is running at 8000hz sending 8000 bits of data every second. Your CPU may get overloaded with data it has no use for, so you will feel the game hitch or stutter. In the case of most games that support 8K polling, they simplify the stream of data down to a manageable polling rate for the engine and PC to handle so while your mouse can send 8000hz worth of data, the game won't register that at all instead taking what it needs say 1000hz worth of data and using that instead to not overload the computer to keep FPS high and smooth.
I don't know wether Halo Infinite has a buffer like that in place or not, that would probably take a deconstruction of the games code.
- The other factor that feeds 8K polling rate is DPI settings, the lower the DPI the less benefit 8K polling in any game will be so at the most common 800DPI setting, you will not see any benefits of 8K polling at all or if they are there its extremely minor. However step into 1600-3200 DPI ranges and that higher polling rate will be noticed more as the sensor has enough data to really utilize it.
Happy to see a 86 fan around these parts!
Your correct on all of these things. If these devices WERE running at the full 8khz at all times i would worry about the health of any cpu over just one play session.
Something I do want to mention is that in Halo lots of people have been trying to optimize frame times and input delay so the vast majority of competative players that Ive interacted with have been running 1600+ dpi. So I kind of forgot that its not the norm in gaming as a whole XD
From what I have been able to see in regards to if infinite has a buffer, It does not.
In the making of this video I used and tested various methods of aiming in Infinite like mouse acceleration and even gyro aiming for a time.
For both methods it looks like halo just lets you go crazy untill you just bring your cpu to its knees.
@@ImpliedSkill I have to rep a good anime, glad to see someone recognize the pfp.
Now that more of the puzzle pieces are falling into line with the higher dpi of Halo M&K players, Infinite potentially not having a buffer for raw input data and the sensors not running at their full 8000hz polling rate.
I am now starting to wonder if its not something server side in combination with high polling rate mice. As we know the standard Xbox Controller updates at a polling rate of 125hz, and Halo Infinite's servers run at a tick rate of 60hz (even private matches connect you to a dedicated server). But with these higher polling rate devices at 8000hz, I am thinking and its entirely speculation that the combination of sending a huge volume of data in combination with the 60hz tick rate on the server is causing the game to basically be overloaded with data so when you are pulling down the game's server is just registering that data as 'oh the player is pulling down the mouse' at a more consistent rate than with a controller or lower polling rate mouse that has a chance to leave a gap and mismatch with the tick rate of the server.
So in theory you aren't cheating because the mouse is bypassing the recoil in the same way a script would, but instead your mouse is giving such a consistent stream of data to the server that its just registering your movements on every single tick, making it feel like the recoil scalar isn't doing its job properly.
@@Kurokeet you might be right honestly. I just hope that people become more aware that its in fact a advantage.
Wont get you on mainstage on its own tho!
@@ImpliedSkill Oh of course, it is like the Turkish shooter at the Olympics proved. You can have the fanciest and best gear to give yourself every advantage possible, but you will never beat out raw talent.
The faster polling rate only affects PC
👍
I'm glad I stopped playing this game a long time ago, PC players now made Halo pay to win.
Not to be mean but it seems like you still "don't have enough proof."
I *almost* get what you are trying to get across with this video, but what you actually say is "higher polling rates update your input more often, giving you more control"... which is the whole point of a higher polling rate?
You are right, the point of higher polling rates are to give more control.
The main issue is that in Infinite its not just giving more control to the higher polling rate player, its making it a non factor untill they hit the "View Kick Shots Fired To Max Out Multiplier Function". This is also only if the weapon being used even has a V.K.S.F.T.M.O.M.F limit. With the Battle Rifle and the Bandit Evo not having such a limit or check.
Instead of polling rate giving more control, but you are still experiencing the same recoil as someone else on a lower polling rate device, you are skiping it entirely.
I guess in a on the spot anology (forgive me here XD)
Instead of riding the wave if you are a surfer, and having more fins on your surf board to get more maneuverability, your extra fins are letting you fly over the incoming wave.
Interesting........
Gonna have to have standardized equipment at this point for tournaments lol
...and this is why I refuse to enable crossplay LMAO
I've never liked Infinite recoil on mouse, you have to account for the recoil and aim at the same time, so you have to awkwardly pull down and aim, never liked it
Isn't that literally what recoil is?
Is this bait
are you dumb?
Bro ….🤦♂️343 is just going to ban polling rates higher than a 1000 all for recoil that’s a nothing burger issue. Now everyone that is use to dpi and sense and polling rate after years of playing will have to start from scratch and have the game not feel as good
polling rate above 1000 feels identical to 1000 and even 500
@@foNy_ lmao
@@TheOneGhost12 you aren’t convincing me that you can feel the difference between your mouse moving every 1 ms compared to 2 ms.
@@foNy_ lmfao your joking or your pc is terrible
343 is dead. And so is infinite, they’re moving on. They’re not gonna fix anything