I just bought a brand new 264 creedmoor and it's amazing. I can stay on target after the shot and witness my impact. That's the most valuable aspect of it.
I have used a Cadwell let’s sled 75 pounds of let shot on it for many years. We use it to check our rifles every year, but we always follow up with some free hand shots because we all stock hunt. Let’s sled also helps with sensitive shooters. I like to build confidence for the hunters with their rifles..
Hey Ron, shoutout to you and the hunting community, thanks for all your work making these videos. Regarding the question about bullet weights coming in odd numbers, Hornady addressed this in a podcast episode. They often start by trying to find shape profiles that give consistant ballistics, and the odd weights are just a byproduct. Cheers!
Let's be honest,...the .264 is just a great diameter when you want the perfect combo of recoil/velocity/ballistic coefficient/accuracy. I've got 8--6.5's in 4 different variations. .260, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 creedmor and 6.5x.284 Norma. They all perform at whatever distance I take them to, (6.5CM being the champ so far at 1200yds). Accuracy is what kills in the field and my longest shot on an animal is 520yds on a pronghorn with the 6.5CM. And I've gotten more friends in to the 1,000yds club behind a 6.5CM than any other caliber I own. It's just easier for a novice to shoot accurately compared to larger calibers at long range (beyond 300) and that has led to more shooters in the sport which is good for us all.
FYI -I bought the Christensen Mesa FFT in 7 PRC and had nothing but problems. My cousin had problems too with the same model/caliber. Sent it back, they put a new barrel on it. Still had problems, sent it back again. They built me a brand new gun. Still that gun has problems. I had much better success with the Seekins havak element in 7prc. It shoots fabulous! Costs more but worth it so far.
You are among thousands who report issues with CA. Frankly I'm surprised they can sell anything at this point. I had one problem with CA regarding a bottom metal issue. The blew me off. Moreover, I'm shocked any merchant would even carry their products anymore.
Had a Christensen in 300 PRC two years ago. Shot a bear with it at about 80 yards. Then clear missed two different shots on deer at about 120. Setup on paper and found I was getting flyers that were off up to 9” at 100 yards. Changed to a Bergara and last fall got a bear and 3 deer between 90-250 yards. All 1 shot drops.
Hey Ron. Love your show. I shoot rimfire/centerfire benchrest. I'd to offer my thoughts shooting small groups: 1. Cheek weld has to be in the same spot on the rifle everytime and pressure needs to be the same everytime. 2. Rifle butt stock needs to be in the exact same spot against your shoulder every shot and the pressure against your shoulder needs to be constant shot to shot. 3. Your trigger finger needs to be in the exact same spot ON the trigger each shot and trugger pull must be constant. 4. Rifle fore end needs to be supported in the exact same spot for each shot. 5. Rifle "cant" must be constant shot to shot. Variations show up at distance..but even at 100 it will cost you a tenth or 2. 5. Squeezing the rear bag brings tension to the body...that will change the dynamics of the shot. 6. POA being off POI in key..if they are the same you will shoot out your POA after a shot or two..that will cost you a tenth or 2 easy. 7. Many will eliminate all these by shooting "free recoil" where the only thing touching the rifle is the tip of your trigger finger. ** cheat code: Shoot your groups in the early AM during perfect conditions (zero wind). Variable wind (even a few mph) will ruin your group. One thing you learn as a benchrest shooter is environmental changes as Mother Earth "wakes"...you have a Golden hour before the warm sun will begin to stir the Earth. Does any of this matter for Hunting? Nah.. But if you want to dazzle us with your BEST Groups...try mitigating the point mentioned above You rock!
Years ago I filled sandwich plastic bags with sand then put them in denim jeans pants legs and sewed them up. I’ve used them for years at the bench I made. I was taught to breathe properly and shoot in between heartbeats. I reload my 30.06. Being 66 years old I doubt if I can shoot as well as I did in 30’s. I use to shoot at least 20 rounds a day on my friends range we built. My 55 year old model 70 Winchester with a 3x9 Leopold Gold Ring is my perfect range and hunting rifle. I had trigger work done and has a very light crisp pull. Basically think go and it goes. I won’t let anyone shoot my rifle due to how light the trigger is. Thanks Ron!!!
Very interested in obtaining a 264 win mag Westerner 1959 Model 70. I have read these had a short throat due to an unusual two diameter bullet Winchester made for it. The front of the bullet was slightly smaller to set it inside the lands. Sounds like an intriguing idea but nobody makes that anymore. So current factory 140 gr is too long to chamber and reloads would have to be a lighter bullet and seated deeper. If true, I think that was what soured hunters on this model.
I've not heard that the 264 Win Mags had a short throat, Hombre. They lost favor due to rumors of barrel burn out (exaggerated,) but mostly because the 7mm Rem. Mag. appeared in a less expensive rifle (new M700 at the time, 1962) and the vast majority of hunters opted for the more versatile 7mm (same belted case, but much heavier bullets.)
@Honkers716 you can say the same about the . 243 I know guys that absolutely hate that round for deer and I've known many deer lost to that round.... I know several stories of folks chasing deer with a .410 shotgun and watching them run away after the shot with zero blood trail. It's not just the creedmore !!!
I have noticed I group better when wearing a heavy jumper/hoodie. I think it helps hold the but in my pocket. Or maybe it just reduces fatigue. I am always looking for better ways to group test.
shooting rest - i have found a 2x6 base with a 2x4 upright with a deep V cut into lined with leather really grips the rifle and use a squeeze rear bag - works amazing
Im loving that high shoulder ( and high lung) that peripheral nerve centre and they drop in their tracks 95% of the time. Obviously you have to be ready for a follow up shot as they occasionally get back up
I guess I am just stubborn! I switch my 18 inch 308 barrel to a 22 inch 6.5 creedmore. I do not plan to hunt with it just shoot targets and I think it’s a great choice! I don’t have a man bun!
I was one of those Creedmoor haters, then I was lucky enough to purchase the lucky ticket on a 6.5 Creedmoor. Boy did I change my mind after shooting this rifle. I have a load developed that is consistently under 1/2 inch MOA at 100 yards. It is accurate out to a 1000 yards and probably more if I had the opportunity. Should note that the rifle is a precision rifle and too heavy for hunting but knowing what I know now I would not be scared to purchase a hunting rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor and take it hunting.
54:19 gotta live Betsy. Stay in your lane Ron! lol. Anyway, I think of diastolic as ‘down’ for the d and systolic as ‘super’. Someday when I can remember that the s isn’t for ‘sub’, I might get it right… once. I need a better memory trick for this.
I've been here before and fine your commentary to be informative for a youngblood. Speaking of that, I've getting my first paycheck in a few days and wondering if I should spend that on a rifle. Only issue is I can't tell what I should see about getting, I already have a 30-06, 30-30, 243win, and a few 22's. So I'm wondering what I should get if I decide on getting a rifle. Any suggestions would be good, but keep in mind ammo availability is a large issue.( Recoil is not.) :)
The thing that kills me with the anti creedmoor/anything new guys is they will endorse .243, .257 bob or 6.5x55 Swede and in the same breath claim the Creedmoor isn’t enough steam.
I think on deer any of those are good choices, but on moose, none of them are good choices. They will work, but are by no means ideal. I feel like 308win, 338 Federal, 8mm Mauser, or 30-06 loaded to 65kpsi is about the ideal moose cartridge since moose shots are usually inside 300yards. For elk, I would say something like 270win, 7SAUM, 280ai, or 284win with a 24" barrel is about ideal for a hiking rifle that is still good for long shots. For maxed out long range shooting on deer from a raised platform or similar, 6.5 PRC, 257Bob at 65kpsi, 6.5-284, 6.5-06, 25-06, and 270win with about a 26" barrel is pretty much ideal. For one cartridge to do a decent job on everything? Probably 7Saum, 280AI, 284win, 30-06, or 300WSM. Might not have as flat of trajectory as they could be, and might be a bit more powerful than needed for a lot of things, and have extra recoil that goes with that though. But those will work for just about anything in North America with proper placement. I'd probably rather have a 338WM for big bears though.
@@DepthWave my ideal cartridge for everything is 35 whelen. Performs well enough out of a 20” barrel, will kill anything with a face out to ethical distances without magnum recoil or magnum barrel length requirements. The first time I handled a 20” rifle I knew there was no going back to 24”+
The problem with the Creedmoor is the long distance hype. I think it's easy to think moderate distances when talking about those classic cartridges, and at the same time think long distances, when talking about the 6.5 creedmoor.
@@sidekickbob7227 Hornady didn’t advertise it as a long distance hunting cartridge. It was advertised as a long distance target cartridge. Guys somewhere along the line decided long distance target cartridge also = long range hunting cartridge. All a guy has to do is look at a ballistics table to understand what distance any given cartridge is lethal to.
The rifle that the factory reworked is technically a custom shop rifle and likely will shoot extremely well but not a fair comparison to the average rifle from the company
I don't comment much as I usually drive when I listen. You're a true standup man Ron! Some angry people comment and are trying to claim superior knowledge. You've forgotten more than most everyone will ever know. It's a true pleasure every week to listen to your wisdom and knowledge. P.s. People need to give the creedmores a chance, they are very nice rounds. Particularly the 22 Creedmore which should become THE standard for 22 centerfires.
well I still dont have any creedmoor, dont plan on it either. the 300 rum looks promising for those long range canyon shots, cant go wrong with a 24'' to 26''. and if you wanna shoot out to a mile or 2 at targets get a 30'' barrel. with 240-250 grain ELD-M or ELD-X pills. the custom action from terminus actions makes a great option with a quick barrel change feature the only downside of the "Zeus action" is you would need to buy another bolt from them if you're changing cartridge bolt face
I love Cameron’s comment as much as I hate the phrase, ‘stay in your lane’. It speaks to the cult of expertise. Used to be that people were allowed to know things about various different topics and opine on pretty much anything. When you’re driving a car, stay in your lane, otherwise drive like you just downed six double whiskeys.
30 years ago, you would have to buy a custom 6.5 swede, and then bought reloading equipment, and then worked up the perfect load, just to compete with the savage axis from wal mart, with wal mart creedmoor ammo
Creedmoor is creedless now that factory ammo is loaded with less optimal powder. People bought the rifles that don't perform now like they used to on factory ammo. Hooked ya though!
Duck, where did you discover that all factory loaded Creedmoor ammo is "loaded with less optimal powder?" Winchester, Remington, Hornady, Sierra, Swift, Norma, Nosler, Federal, Barnes, Sellier & Bellot, Browning, Black Hills, Double Tap, Choice, Berger, HSM, Aquila, Sig Sauer, Lapua, Fiocchi, Underwood... All of them?
You packed alot in this video.. I think Creedmoor is to the point of Needmore. As some have depicted, a man bunn gun. Lol i shot 50 rounds through one and swapped in a 260 Rem barrel and further to a 260 AI. Couldnt be happier. What options do you have with Creedmoor case? It serves a purpose. You can size up or size down within the Creedmoor group. The same with a 260 in the 308 group. The supply is getting much better so brass is not an issue at least from my suppliers. The advantage with the 260 is I have options. Bought an AI reamer and a throater. Built one of my rifles for some speed on varmints with light bullets with a short throat. Another set up with a longer throat for heavier bullets. I can tune the throat to the bullet i want to use. Something to consider with heavy bullets is consistency. Comparing a heavy bullet to a light is a variation in pressure has less impact on a heavy bullet vs a lighter bullet. With the Winchester XPR. Excellent rifle. Have one in 308 with a break and balanced for my daughter and a 30-06 for me the same way and both the varmint model. My only hitch wss the floating recoil lug. But there tolerances are much better than others. Great video..thanks..
Hi Ron, I think you need to talk your wife into doing a show with you every now and then. Or more often than that even. She seems great and we could get her perspective on the topics. I enjoy when you two joke around.
Ron Spomer, Ron Spomer, Ron Spomer!!! You are a Great Expositor!!!!! I’m waiting for the “Ron Spomer book of all things Hunting “, really enjoy the way you discuss hunting subjects!!! Keep up the good work, King Ron!😂😂😂🎉
I find it funny how so many people don’t understand the concept of what he is trying to do in his testing but yet they want to give feed back. Oh internet lol.
I may be mistaken, I thought I heard Hornady talking about the relief rings and the angle on the edges of their new CX bullets was protected. I may need to go watch that again.
6.5 can kill, but it’s taking a knife to a gunfight. Yes it can win, but why not have the advantage of a 7prc or 300WM, even a 30-06 is a better choice. 6.5 okay for deer, antelope. When you hunt elk, man up and use a .30 cal or at least 7 rem mag or 7 PRC. 6.5 is for tiny game at best. Coues deer would be its niche. Pronghorn fits the 6.5 need more.
I've been saying this for years. The Creedmoor cartridges with their flat trajectories and fantastic BCs are wonderful at killing paper. The .270 Win, .243 Win, .7mm Rem Mag, .223 Rem, .30-06, and all the other tried and true cartridges feed a family- at a fraction of the cost of a Creedmoor. We all know long bullets are inherently more accurate, but shorter ones kill better and more humanely.
Gonzo, I appreciate your enthusiasm for the old tried and true, but to prevent confusion I will add this: I've found no evidence that shorter bullets kill better and more humanely. And the 6.5 Creedmoor does not have a particularly flat trajectory. All those you listed can easily shoot flatter.
Ron love your show it's informative and I find most topics interesting parden me but I have to vent what is with these folks that are hunting elk and taking 7 hundred yard shot's isn't that extreme I don't think that anybody that is a responsible hunter should be shooting beyond 450/500 yard's too many crippled animals what is your thoughts on extreme long distance shot on one of God's creatures my personal longest game shot is 350 yards my last deer was 288 and I felt lucky to have made a clean kill shot
James, this contentious issue has been with us for at least a century. The easiest answer is that no hunter should take any shot he is not 100% sure of making. This suggests 100 yards is too far. A more realistic view is to consider time of flight. If the animal can move -- just a simple, unspooked step or turn -- from the time the shooter pulls the trigger until the bullet arrives, say 1/2 to 3/4 seconds flight time -- enough to change a killing shot into a wounding one, the shot shouldn't be taken. With some rounds like 30-30 that can be 300 yards. With faster ones like 65-300 Wby Mag., it's closer to 450 yards. But then there is the accuracy issue. Can the shooter absolutely make that shot? Some, with the best gear, can. But can they recover the animal? Can they find it across canyons and thick woods? If it runs off before expiring, can they track it? Lots to think about. The final answer lies in the hearts of each individual. You could condemn me for shoulder hit I made on a whitetail at 777 yards. I might condemn some of my friends for trying a 75-yards hot when shaking and hyperventilating or using a rifle they were afraid of. No perfect answer, but I generally draw the line at 600 yards max under perfect conditions and rarely. Over the decades I've discovered there aren't many animals of which I cannot get within 500 yards, more often 300 yards. Thanks for your concern and caring attitude. Oh, also remember that God made creatures like the lion and leopard and wolf that often, regularly wound and lose prey. No predator is perfect, but I hazard a guess that we humans are considerably better than all others. And cause much less pain than wild dogs eating antelope alive or snakes and spiders painfully poisoning things to death. I wouldn't want to meet my demise in the coils of a boa constrictor slowly squeezing the breath out of me.
There are only 2 ways you’ll get good 3-shot groups if you let the barrel free-recoil on a rest: 1) if the rifle is heavy enough that the recoil won’t cause muzzle jump (for example, a 9 lb. 223); 2) luck, meaning the muzzle happens to jump consistently for 3 shots in a row.
In that case, Scott, I've had luck many, many times over the years. Using my free recoiling technique, I've gotten many 1/2 MOA groups with many rifles -- and even some 1/4 MOA groups. But, yes, it is more easily accomplished with a heavy rifle.
Maybe 2 of your 5 shot groups one on top of the other might give a real idea of accuracy. This also gives a good idea of sight placement of center of groups. Love your show and your explanations. I can still learn!
Hating on the creedmore and being happy thats its not as popular as we thought, is basically letting the politicians know you don't mind more gun regulations and wouldn't bother you to see the caliber disappear.... Thats just foul all the way around... I want ALL available calibers to stay popular and we get more guns and ammo to enjoy !!!
A 6.5 CM is a joke. Buy a real 6.5 performer like a 264mag. I’ve been dropping Deer with my 264mag since the early 90’s and it was introduced in 1958. I’m pushing a 140gr 6.5 faster at 300yds than the 6.5CM is traveling at the muzzle. If you’re a wimp and can’t handle magnum recoil, buy a 6.5 swed or a 6.5x284; both faster than the 6.5CM.
Love your show Ron and have watched untold episodes and will continue to do so. I am however surprised that any manufacture will send u a gun to test. Every gun I have seen u shoot gets horrible groups (even a $11k custom rifle) Sometimes its the indian and not the arrow!
Negativity bias, you’re only remembering the bad and also probably over expecting performance from an assortment of rifles given a limited ammunition selection.
I hope the manufacturers don't read your comment! But, Robert, you might watch my recent review of the Tikka T3 Drover in 308. Or my review of the Weatherby M307 Adventurer. I used to have a nice review of an AllTerra Arms rifle in 6.5 PRC with which I shot 1/2 MOA with factory ammo, 1/4 MOA with AllTerra custom loads. I most likely am not the world's best benchrest shooter, but I think what my many videos of 1.5 MOA rifles prove is that the "sub-MOA all day long right out of the box" isn't as common as many would make them out to be. As for that $11K custom, I'm just getting started working up loads for it AND a 6# falling block single shot with a two piece stock cannot be held to PRS-style chassis rifle accuracy standards. Target and competition rifles are not hunting rifles and vice versa. Cheers.
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We had a glitch last night and the Podcast quit at 28 minutes. Here is the full Podcast. Cheers!
Hopefully Dosnt Pop back up.. The Glitch
just bought my 3rd 6.5CM Tikka. Great cartridge.
It’s a very good cartridge for many things
@@ironmikehallowween especially accuracy
I just bought a brand new 264 creedmoor and it's amazing. I can stay on target after the shot and witness my impact. That's the most valuable aspect of it.
I have used a Cadwell let’s sled 75 pounds of let shot on it for many years. We use it to check our rifles every year, but we always follow up with some free hand shots because we all stock hunt. Let’s sled also helps with sensitive shooters. I like to build confidence for the hunters with their rifles..
Got a 270 Win, don't really care what y'all think
Of course you have. You’re a rugged individualist.
I got two.
Hey Ron, shoutout to you and the hunting community, thanks for all your work making these videos. Regarding the question about bullet weights coming in odd numbers, Hornady addressed this in a podcast episode. They often start by trying to find shape profiles that give consistant ballistics, and the odd weights are just a byproduct. Cheers!
Ron, every time I carry a saw I never need it, but I often do need one when I forget it at home.
Got a 30-06. Don't need a .270... and so it goes.
Let's be honest,...the .264 is just a great diameter when you want the perfect combo of recoil/velocity/ballistic coefficient/accuracy. I've got 8--6.5's in 4 different variations. .260, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 creedmor and 6.5x.284 Norma. They all perform at whatever distance I take them to, (6.5CM being the champ so far at 1200yds). Accuracy is what kills in the field and my longest shot on an animal is 520yds on a pronghorn with the 6.5CM. And I've gotten more friends in to the 1,000yds club behind a 6.5CM than any other caliber I own. It's just easier for a novice to shoot accurately compared to larger calibers at long range (beyond 300) and that has led to more shooters in the sport which is good for us all.
I agree with your comments about the bipod in the field for hunting. We use the trigger sticks. Although we will sometimes carry a bipod in the pack.
FYI -I bought the Christensen Mesa FFT in 7 PRC and had nothing but problems. My cousin had problems too with the same model/caliber. Sent it back, they put a new barrel on it. Still had problems, sent it back again. They built me a brand new gun. Still that gun has problems. I had much better success with the Seekins havak element in 7prc. It shoots fabulous! Costs more but worth it so far.
You are among thousands who report issues with CA. Frankly I'm surprised they can sell anything at this point. I had one problem with CA regarding a bottom metal issue. The blew me off. Moreover, I'm shocked any merchant would even carry their products anymore.
Had a Christensen in 300 PRC two years ago. Shot a bear with it at about 80 yards. Then clear missed two different shots on deer at about 120. Setup on paper and found I was getting flyers that were off up to 9” at 100 yards. Changed to a Bergara and last fall got a bear and 3 deer between 90-250 yards. All 1 shot drops.
Always a good show. That photo over your shoulder is fantastic.
Thanks John. I spotted that scene (the phot) in far NW Alberta about 7 years ago. I love the fall woods.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors did you take the photo?
Hey Ron. Love your show. I shoot rimfire/centerfire benchrest. I'd to offer my thoughts shooting small groups:
1. Cheek weld has to be in the same spot on the rifle everytime and pressure needs to be the same everytime.
2. Rifle butt stock needs to be in the exact same spot against your shoulder every shot and the pressure against your shoulder needs to be constant shot to shot.
3. Your trigger finger needs to be in the exact same spot ON the trigger each shot and trugger pull must be constant.
4. Rifle fore end needs to be supported in the exact same spot for each shot.
5. Rifle "cant" must be constant shot to shot. Variations show up at distance..but even at 100 it will cost you a tenth or 2.
5. Squeezing the rear bag brings tension to the body...that will change the dynamics of the shot.
6. POA being off POI in key..if they are the same you will shoot out your POA after a shot or two..that will cost you a tenth or 2 easy.
7. Many will eliminate all these by shooting "free recoil" where the only thing touching the rifle is the tip of your trigger finger.
** cheat code:
Shoot your groups in the early AM during perfect conditions (zero wind). Variable wind (even a few mph) will ruin your group. One thing you learn as a benchrest shooter is environmental changes as Mother Earth "wakes"...you have a Golden hour before the warm sun will begin to stir the Earth.
Does any of this matter for Hunting? Nah..
But if you want to dazzle us with your BEST Groups...try mitigating the point mentioned above
You rock!
Thanks for sharing your expertise, Saints.
Thanks Ron 👍. God 🙏 Bless ✝️💛.
Years ago I filled sandwich plastic bags with sand then put them in denim jeans pants legs and sewed them up. I’ve used them for years at the bench I made. I was taught to breathe properly and shoot in between heartbeats. I reload my 30.06. Being 66 years old I doubt if I can shoot as well as I did in 30’s. I use to shoot at least 20 rounds a day on my friends range we built. My 55 year old model 70 Winchester with a 3x9 Leopold Gold Ring is my perfect range and hunting rifle. I had trigger work done and has a very light crisp pull. Basically think go and it goes. I won’t let anyone shoot my rifle due to how light the trigger is. Thanks Ron!!!
Carry, it sounds as if you've got things figured out! Congrats and continue to enjoy!
Very interested in obtaining a 264 win mag Westerner 1959 Model 70. I have read these had a short throat due to an unusual two diameter bullet Winchester made for it. The front of the bullet was slightly smaller to set it inside the lands. Sounds like an intriguing idea but nobody makes that anymore. So current factory 140 gr is too long to chamber and reloads would have to be a lighter bullet and seated deeper. If true, I think that was what soured hunters on this model.
I've not heard that the 264 Win Mags had a short throat, Hombre. They lost favor due to rumors of barrel burn out (exaggerated,) but mostly because the 7mm Rem. Mag. appeared in a less expensive rifle (new M700 at the time, 1962) and the vast majority of hunters opted for the more versatile 7mm (same belted case, but much heavier bullets.)
Hi Ron, love your show. Caldwell makes a really steady rest it’s called the tack driver with a rabbit ear bag I’m sure you have seen one works great.
Creedmoor is living rent free in so many shooters heads it is funny.
Creedmoor is living rent free in a lot of wounded animals too
@Honkers716 you can say the same about the . 243
I know guys that absolutely hate that round for deer and I've known many deer lost to that round....
I know several stories of folks chasing deer with a .410 shotgun and watching them run away after the shot with zero blood trail.
It's not just the creedmore !!!
@@Honkers716you’re going to offend all the man buns out there 😂😂😂
I have noticed I group better when wearing a heavy jumper/hoodie. I think it helps hold the but in my pocket. Or maybe it just reduces fatigue. I am always looking for better ways to group test.
Good job as always. Thank you Ron!
shooting rest - i have found a 2x6 base with a 2x4 upright with a deep V cut into lined with leather really grips the rifle and use a squeeze rear bag - works amazing
Im loving that high shoulder ( and high lung) that peripheral nerve centre and they drop in their tracks 95% of the time. Obviously you have to be ready for a follow up shot as they occasionally get back up
I guess I am just stubborn! I switch my 18 inch 308 barrel to a 22 inch 6.5 creedmore. I do not plan to hunt with it just shoot targets and I think it’s a great choice! I don’t have a man bun!
I loved hearing from the better half 😂keep up the content
XPRs are good-ABolt 3 action, Win. M70 barrel, Win MOA trigger.
I was one of those Creedmoor haters, then I was lucky enough to purchase the lucky ticket on a 6.5 Creedmoor. Boy did I change my mind after shooting this rifle. I have a load developed that is consistently under 1/2 inch MOA at 100 yards. It is accurate out to a 1000 yards and probably more if I had the opportunity. Should note that the rifle is a precision rifle and too heavy for hunting but knowing what I know now I would not be scared to purchase a hunting rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor and take it hunting.
Creedmoor are great for shooting paper. And that's where they belong
@Honkers716 same thoughts considering the 6.5x55?
@@andrewfischer1311great caliber!!!
@@Honkers716not true at all
Same
Ron...I know you are an excellent shot .
I'll use my Caldwell shooting rest at the range , but when I'm in the field I'll use the Primos shooting sticks tripod
54:19 gotta live Betsy. Stay in your lane Ron! lol. Anyway, I think of diastolic as ‘down’ for the d and systolic as ‘super’. Someday when I can remember that the s isn’t for ‘sub’, I might get it right… once. I need a better memory trick for this.
Aww. Creedmoor Ron has to think about a different cartridge.😂
I've been here before and fine your commentary to be informative for a youngblood.
Speaking of that, I've getting my first paycheck in a few days and wondering if I should spend that on a rifle. Only issue is I can't tell what I should see about getting, I already have a 30-06, 30-30, 243win, and a few 22's. So I'm wondering what I should get if I decide on getting a rifle. Any suggestions would be good, but keep in mind ammo availability is a large issue.( Recoil is not.) :)
what are you running for optics? you've got a solid battery of guns there. maybe a shotgun if you must have another long gun.
The thing that kills me with the anti creedmoor/anything new guys is they will endorse .243, .257 bob or 6.5x55 Swede and in the same breath claim the Creedmoor isn’t enough steam.
I think on deer any of those are good choices, but on moose, none of them are good choices. They will work, but are by no means ideal. I feel like 308win, 338 Federal, 8mm Mauser, or 30-06 loaded to 65kpsi is about the ideal moose cartridge since moose shots are usually inside 300yards. For elk, I would say something like 270win, 7SAUM, 280ai, or 284win with a 24" barrel is about ideal for a hiking rifle that is still good for long shots. For maxed out long range shooting on deer from a raised platform or similar, 6.5 PRC, 257Bob at 65kpsi, 6.5-284, 6.5-06, 25-06, and 270win with about a 26" barrel is pretty much ideal. For one cartridge to do a decent job on everything? Probably 7Saum, 280AI, 284win, 30-06, or 300WSM. Might not have as flat of trajectory as they could be, and might be a bit more powerful than needed for a lot of things, and have extra recoil that goes with that though. But those will work for just about anything in North America with proper placement. I'd probably rather have a 338WM for big bears though.
@@DepthWave my ideal cartridge for everything is 35 whelen. Performs well enough out of a 20” barrel, will kill anything with a face out to ethical distances without magnum recoil or magnum barrel length requirements. The first time I handled a 20” rifle I knew there was no going back to 24”+
The problem with the Creedmoor is the long distance hype. I think it's easy to think moderate distances when talking about those classic cartridges, and at the same time think long distances, when talking about the 6.5 creedmoor.
@@sidekickbob7227 Hornady didn’t advertise it as a long distance hunting cartridge. It was advertised as a long distance target cartridge. Guys somewhere along the line decided long distance target cartridge also = long range hunting cartridge. All a guy has to do is look at a ballistics table to understand what distance any given cartridge is lethal to.
@@Westerner_ You are of course correct. That's why I used the word hype.
Ron if you would just do everything exactly like we tell you to I'm sure you might be able to harvest some animals at some point in your lifetime.😅
I hope so!
I settled and got 248gr Hammer Hunters and a sample of the 329gr Hammer Hunter.
The rifle that the factory reworked is technically a custom shop rifle and likely will shoot extremely well but not a fair comparison to the average rifle from the company
I don't comment much as I usually drive when I listen. You're a true standup man Ron! Some angry people comment and are trying to claim superior knowledge. You've forgotten more than most everyone will ever know. It's a true pleasure every week to listen to your wisdom and knowledge.
P.s. People need to give the creedmores a chance, they are very nice rounds. Particularly the 22 Creedmore which should become THE standard for 22 centerfires.
I'm pretty high on the 22 Creedmoor too.
The Real Gunsmith in a TH-cam video sometimes puts his hand on his scope while he develops loads for his custom made rifles.
His method works very well,too!
well I still dont have any creedmoor, dont plan on it either. the 300 rum looks promising for those long range canyon shots, cant go wrong with a 24'' to 26''. and if you wanna shoot out to a mile or 2 at targets get a 30'' barrel. with 240-250 grain ELD-M or ELD-X pills. the custom action from terminus actions makes a great option with a quick barrel change feature the only downside of the "Zeus action" is you would need to buy another bolt from them if you're changing cartridge bolt face
I love Cameron’s comment as much as I hate the phrase, ‘stay in your lane’. It speaks to the cult of expertise. Used to be that people were allowed to know things about various different topics and opine on pretty much anything.
When you’re driving a car, stay in your lane, otherwise drive like you just downed six double whiskeys.
About time
I have a 308 and a 338 lapua magnum. Those are the only guns I need, tell me something I can't do?
I like putting my left pointing finger on the stock, not the barrel ,with a moderate pressure
30 years ago, you would have to buy a custom 6.5 swede, and then bought reloading equipment, and then worked up the perfect load, just to compete with the savage axis from wal mart, with wal mart creedmoor ammo
6.5 CM is a good cartridge like many others 🤙
Creedmoor is creedless now that factory ammo is loaded with less optimal powder. People bought the rifles that don't perform now like they used to on factory ammo. Hooked ya though!
Duck, where did you discover that all factory loaded Creedmoor ammo is "loaded with less optimal powder?" Winchester, Remington, Hornady, Sierra, Swift, Norma, Nosler, Federal, Barnes, Sellier & Bellot, Browning, Black Hills, Double Tap, Choice, Berger, HSM, Aquila, Sig Sauer, Lapua, Fiocchi, Underwood... All of them?
BTW turn the scope around, see into the future
You packed alot in this video..
I think Creedmoor is to the point of Needmore. As some have depicted, a man bunn gun. Lol i shot 50 rounds through one and swapped in a 260 Rem barrel and further to a 260 AI. Couldnt be happier.
What options do you have with Creedmoor case? It serves a purpose. You can size up or size down within the Creedmoor group. The same with a 260 in the 308 group. The supply is getting much better so brass is not an issue at least from my suppliers. The advantage with the 260 is I have options. Bought an AI reamer and a throater. Built one of my rifles for some speed on varmints with light bullets with a short throat. Another set up with a longer throat for heavier bullets. I can tune the throat to the bullet i want to use.
Something to consider with heavy bullets is consistency. Comparing a heavy bullet to a light is a variation in pressure has less impact on a heavy bullet vs a lighter bullet.
With the Winchester XPR. Excellent rifle. Have one in 308 with a break and balanced for my daughter and a 30-06 for me the same way and both the varmint model. My only hitch wss the floating recoil lug. But there tolerances are much better than others.
Great video..thanks..
Hi Ron, I think you need to talk your wife into doing a show with you every now and then. Or more often than that even. She seems great and we could get her perspective on the topics. I enjoy when you two joke around.
Ron Spomer, Ron Spomer, Ron Spomer!!! You are a Great Expositor!!!!! I’m waiting for the “Ron Spomer book of all things Hunting “, really enjoy the way you discuss hunting subjects!!! Keep up the good work, King Ron!😂😂😂🎉
I recorded like #458! There are no coincidences! 😂
In my defense, my phone’s spell check can make writing (and spelling) correctly a challenge. 34:39
Thanks for the “comment of the week”!
I find it funny how so many people don’t understand the concept of what he is trying to do in his testing but yet they want to give feed back.
Oh internet lol.
Patent issues are a consideration in bullet styles and weights.
I don't think any bullet weight is patented. Nor any shapes/forms.
I may be mistaken, I thought I heard Hornady talking about the relief rings and the angle on the edges of their new CX bullets was protected. I may need to go watch that again.
Sorry,love your channel but love my 06,my ar,my shot guns and my 6.5 cjffhm. Love guns!
Creedmoors are just target rifle cartridges really, and for that purpose they are excellent.
6.5 can kill, but it’s taking a knife to a gunfight. Yes it can win, but why not have the advantage of a 7prc or 300WM, even a 30-06 is a better choice. 6.5 okay for deer, antelope. When you hunt elk, man up and use a .30 cal or at least 7 rem mag or 7 PRC. 6.5 is for tiny game at best. Coues deer would be its niche. Pronghorn fits the 6.5 need more.
You or youtube erased the other video?
We did. It was just stopped. We are trouble shooting why. Thanks for asking. Frustrating!.
I've been saying this for years. The Creedmoor cartridges with their flat trajectories and fantastic BCs are wonderful at killing paper. The .270 Win, .243 Win, .7mm Rem Mag, .223 Rem, .30-06, and all the other tried and true cartridges feed a family- at a fraction of the cost of a Creedmoor. We all know long bullets are inherently more accurate, but shorter ones kill better and more humanely.
Gonzo, I appreciate your enthusiasm for the old tried and true, but to prevent confusion I will add this: I've found no evidence that shorter bullets kill better and more humanely. And the 6.5 Creedmoor does not have a particularly flat trajectory. All those you listed can easily shoot flatter.
Ron love your show it's informative and I find most topics interesting parden me but I have to vent what is with these folks that are hunting elk and taking 7 hundred yard shot's isn't that extreme I don't think that anybody that is a responsible hunter should be shooting beyond 450/500 yard's too many crippled animals what is your thoughts on extreme long distance shot on one of God's creatures my personal longest game shot is 350 yards my last deer was 288 and I felt lucky to have made a clean kill shot
James, this contentious issue has been with us for at least a century. The easiest answer is that no hunter should take any shot he is not 100% sure of making. This suggests 100 yards is too far. A more realistic view is to consider time of flight. If the animal can move -- just a simple, unspooked step or turn -- from the time the shooter pulls the trigger until the bullet arrives, say 1/2 to 3/4 seconds flight time -- enough to change a killing shot into a wounding one, the shot shouldn't be taken. With some rounds like 30-30 that can be 300 yards. With faster ones like 65-300 Wby Mag., it's closer to 450 yards. But then there is the accuracy issue. Can the shooter absolutely make that shot? Some, with the best gear, can. But can they recover the animal? Can they find it across canyons and thick woods? If it runs off before expiring, can they track it? Lots to think about. The final answer lies in the hearts of each individual. You could condemn me for shoulder hit I made on a whitetail at 777 yards. I might condemn some of my friends for trying a 75-yards hot when shaking and hyperventilating or using a rifle they were afraid of. No perfect answer, but I generally draw the line at 600 yards max under perfect conditions and rarely. Over the decades I've discovered there aren't many animals of which I cannot get within 500 yards, more often 300 yards. Thanks for your concern and caring attitude. Oh, also remember that God made creatures like the lion and leopard and wolf that often, regularly wound and lose prey. No predator is perfect, but I hazard a guess that we humans are considerably better than all others. And cause much less pain than wild dogs eating antelope alive or snakes and spiders painfully poisoning things to death. I wouldn't want to meet my demise in the coils of a boa constrictor slowly squeezing the breath out of me.
TH-cam will remove peoples comments, happens to me all the time. You have to refresh the page and make sure it's still there
6.5 Need More is more like it 😂😂
I'll just stick with my 257 roberts. Thanks anyway.
Or PRC
22 Creedmoor 😂
There are only 2 ways you’ll get good 3-shot groups if you let the barrel free-recoil on a rest: 1) if the rifle is heavy enough that the recoil won’t cause muzzle jump (for example, a 9 lb. 223); 2) luck, meaning the muzzle happens to jump consistently for 3 shots in a row.
In that case, Scott, I've had luck many, many times over the years. Using my free recoiling technique, I've gotten many 1/2 MOA groups with many rifles -- and even some 1/4 MOA groups. But, yes, it is more easily accomplished with a heavy rifle.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors If you’re comfortable shooting at an animal based on the the perceived frequency of luck, then by all means.
Maybe 2 of your 5 shot groups one on top of the other might give a real idea of accuracy. This also gives a good idea of sight placement of center of groups. Love your show and your explanations. I can still learn!
Hating on the creedmore and being happy thats its not as popular as we thought, is basically letting the politicians know you don't mind more gun regulations and wouldn't bother you to see the caliber disappear....
Thats just foul all the way around...
I want ALL available calibers to stay popular and we get more guns and ammo to enjoy !!!
Creed what? Never heard of her.
"She" was a farm on Long Island, NY, on which late 19th century 1,000-yard shooting competitions were held.
PRC>Creedmoor
Both designed by the same people. The Creedmoors are based on the 30TC case, the PRC's on variations of the larger diameter 375 Ruger case.
A 6.5 CM is a joke. Buy a real 6.5 performer like a 264mag. I’ve been dropping Deer with my 264mag since the early 90’s and it was introduced in 1958. I’m pushing a 140gr 6.5 faster at 300yds than the 6.5CM is traveling at the muzzle. If you’re a wimp and can’t handle magnum recoil, buy a 6.5 swed or a 6.5x284; both faster than the 6.5CM.
I am never buying a creedgirl
Love your show Ron and have watched untold episodes and will continue to do so.
I am however surprised that any manufacture will send u a gun to test. Every gun I have seen u shoot gets horrible groups (even a $11k custom rifle)
Sometimes its the indian and not the arrow!
Negativity bias, you’re only remembering the bad and also probably over expecting performance from an assortment of rifles given a limited ammunition selection.
I hope the manufacturers don't read your comment! But, Robert, you might watch my recent review of the Tikka T3 Drover in 308. Or my review of the Weatherby M307 Adventurer. I used to have a nice review of an AllTerra Arms rifle in 6.5 PRC with which I shot 1/2 MOA with factory ammo, 1/4 MOA with AllTerra custom loads. I most likely am not the world's best benchrest shooter, but I think what my many videos of 1.5 MOA rifles prove is that the "sub-MOA all day long right out of the box" isn't as common as many would make them out to be. As for that $11K custom, I'm just getting started working up loads for it AND a 6# falling block single shot with a two piece stock cannot be held to PRS-style chassis rifle accuracy standards. Target and competition rifles are not hunting rifles and vice versa. Cheers.
It's now official, the Creedmoor SUCKS