Redsox or Yankees, Stallone or Schwarzenegger, 308 Winchester or 6.5 Creedmoor? For two cartridges that are so similar, there shouldn't be so much debate right....right? #BergaraRifles #6.5CMvs308Win #308Winvs6.5CM
Yup! It kills. Not only that but the recoil is entirely tolerable and any place that will have ammo will have some. I have both. 6.5 is fine for white tails and pigs.
Really appreciate the simple no nonsense approach, no pun intended, to this video. There are so many that try to break it down in so many ways but this gets right to the point. Awesome work!
I want to add a .284 to my collection and that’s on the short list. I don’t see it in stores too much where I live though. 6.5 CM and PRC is more common. I see 7mm Rem Mag more often, but hear it hits the shoulder pretty hard. I don’t really need to make a 500 yard shot and it is overkill where I live. I can hit past 300 yards with .308, but like 6.5 CM’s recoil more. If it weren’t so darned expensive! I like the concept of 7mm-08. Sounds like it does a lot well. Love my .308. But don’t think I’d want to shoot 7mm mag as much as I shoot .308. (I have more than one.) You get past 2 boxes of .308 and I don’t notice while shooting because I love to shoot, but the next day my shoulder’s feeling it. I’ve been thinking about a .243 for that reason. I see that all the time and the ammo is easy to find, but it is all expensive hunting ammo not fmj and I don’t like wasting hunting ammo. I shoot .223 a lot.
I agree, out to 400 yds the 7-08 will do just as well if not better than the 6.5. And compared to the 308 it has better BC and less felt recoil. NOT that there is anything wrong with any of them.
Hands down better than both inside 400 yds (my ethical limit) Im thinking of a 308 bushgun and brass feeder to be converted to 7mm08 but trimming and resizing - and then uses same 7mm bullets as the 7mmPRC Very underrated and should have replaced the 5.56 instead of the .277 as a "do all" IMO
Great advice, and as a Hunter do not forget bigger hole better blood trails and usually faster blood loss. Most ethical shots on game occur inside 300 yards and my effective range in all field positions shooting with my sling are under 300 yards, so I choose .308.
Literally the best explanation between these two Giants that I have heard yet today! One is great here and the other is great there! Everyone wants to compare them both at the same time. Thank you.
6.5- small/ medium game and target round. Low recoil and requires a longer barrel 308- medium/large game and can run heavier bullets for more energy at 300 yards and in. Also can run a shorter barrel. They’re both good, pick which one fits your needs. They were designed for 2 different things.
They both have their uses. If you want to punch paper (or ring steel) at 1000+ yards, get the Creedmoor. If you hunt at 600 yards or less, get the 308.
Good points, BUT... 1. I just took my 2nd elk with my 6.5 cm, at 500 yards. 143 grain Hornady eldx performed flawlessly. The elk didn't seem to mind the lighter weight. 2. In Scandinavia they have been hunting moose with the 6.5 x 55 for over 100 years, and they continue to do so to the present day. It's all about shot placement and as good as the 308 is, and it's really really good, there's nothing it can kill that the 6.5 cm can't.
Excellent comparison and thank you for the info. I have been trying to consider which rifle I will get for hunting I was looking at the bolt action AXIS II Precision. Just wasn't sure which caliber yet. All my info talks very negatively about the .308 when comparing it to the 6.5 creedmoor. I like the .308 but everyone including some friends are saying 6.5 is better. This vid is an excellent comparison. I shot it a lot in the military. I still think it is a better round and it has proven itself as the (battle rifle caliber). Keep the videos coming and we appreciate your work.
If you have a shot at a mule deer at 500 yards, your best bet for an ethical kill isn't the 308. At 500 yards a 178gr ELDX is down to just 1,860 fps and may not expand. However, the 6.5 CM with a 143gr ELDX is still going 2,030 fps and will expand properly. As for power, the 308 is at 1,377 ft-lbs of energy and the 6.5 CM is at 1,308 ft-lbs. Both still have more than enough energy to make a good kill at that range. The only limiting factor is whether or not the bullet expands. Drop and drift for both rifles at that range is close enough it's not really an issue at that range. The 308 definitely has the advantage in power under 400 yards, but that's about the extent of it's useful hunting range for large game.
Are you better off getting a B14 HMR in 6.5 creedmoor or 308 IF you wanted to rebarrel the rifle later on and change calibers to try something new/get bored with the original caliber/etc.?? Is it good/acceptable normal wear and tear for the rifles receiver to change barrels/calibers every 6 months or so for the duration of the rifles life? I could see here you may want to work long range target matches in the Spring and Summer and be in 6.5 creedmoor and then go over to 308 in the same receiver for Fall and Winter hunting season.
For me it's the .308 Winchester hands down. I live in Virginia at the foot of the Southern Appalachians, if I can get a 500 yard shot I'll be doing good. Besides, the only one I'll be competing against is my son, myself and maybe a couple friends. I wanted to get a Bergara B-14 HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor or .300 Win Mag until I found out the life of the barrels are only about 3000 - 4000 rounds. I changed my mind to the .308 with a barrel life of somewhere between 10,000 - 12,000 rounds before a barrel change.
Bigger hole the more they leak. I own both. Trophy buck within a couple hundred yards give me the .308. Meat in the freezer less recoil give me the 6.5 Creedmoor. Big bucks will run even with good shot placement sometimes. I hate having to trail a deer in the woods and then have to retrieve it from a bad situation of trees, brush and the like. Prefer dead in their tracks on big bucks. But hey I love my .270 as well as either of the other two. You just can't have enough rifles even though it does get confusing which one to hunt with when you have so many. I get confused every year, but I make sure to harvest deer with all of them. One has to have a reason to have a new rifle, right? Not if you're not married but it does help to have a cover story when you have a wife to convince you need another one.
I hunt the thick Woods of south Louisiana most shots under 100 yards in the brush. Have both calibers hoping they'll soon make a 65 cm in a round nose. Brush bullet. 308 has every bullet type under the sun . Wonderful comparison of calibers , unlike the bias" paid " people promoting 6.5cm. Your vid made me sub
For me the difference is game size. Deer, 6.5 Creed. Elk, .308. *That said* would I hut elk (or moose) with a 6.5 Creed? Yes, yes I would...but I'd be mindful and pick my shots a bit more carefully.
@@123tl I like to head shot at 300m and it's the same cartridge just necked down infact you can put a 6.5 in a 308 and fire in and then reload it as 308. I keep my Tikka 308 for night shoots. But on foot and tracking the animals I yours my sako carbonlight
Using CFE223 for both .308 and 6.5 CM, I developed loads and the results have me looking closer at .308. The .308 load with 155 grain bullet is averaging 2959fps, while my fastest 6.5CM 140gr bullet is averaging, 2781fps. The .308 rifle I tested does have a 2" longer barrel (24") but, I still wonder why the significant difference in speed. I should mention, the CFE223 in 6.5 CM has given me the highest fps out of numerous different powders tested. Scratching my head as I look at buying a Bergara and cant decide on Caliber. However, the 20" barrel on Bergara .308 just isnt long enough...
depends on what you need it for. I have a Bergara Wilderness Terrain in 308. The short fat barrel is deadly accurate. 2 inches don't matter for hunting. 308 is better for hunting that 6.5. anyways.
Josh, it’s internal ballistics versus external ballistics. Internally, inside the barrel, the 308 can generate a higher velocity using similar weight projectiles than the 6.5 because there’s more surface area on the back of a 308 for the expanding gas to push against. Aside from the fact that you can put a few extra grains of powder in the cartridge, That’s why you can run the 155 grain in 308 so fast while you struggle to get similar velocities from the 6.5 Creedmoor. But the same thing that makes the 308 faster at the muzzle is what makes it lose all that velocity a lot faster as well. I know a couple of old-timers who have shot more elk and moose with a 25-06 using 120 grain projectiles then you have probably ever even seen in your life. I say hunt with what you got and understand the characteristics of your chosen projectile and what it’s gonna do at different ranges and then make a decision about how far you are comfortable shooting at game. And enjoy hunting and don’t let everyone else bring you down because you choose to hunt with this rather than that.
The most meaningful measure for NRA High Power Competitor is MOA wind constant. The MOA constant of 6.5 Creedmoor is about 16-18 at 600 yards, while the .308 is about 12, meaning the 6.5 Creedmoor bullet is less deflected by wind. A 1 mph full value wind will displace 6.5 Creedmoor bullet about .375 MOA, or 2.25 inches at 600 yards. A 1 mph full value wind will displace .308 bullet about .5 MOA, or 3 inches. This contrast does not seem meaningful but since the X-Ring of the 600-yard target is only about 3 inches in diameter, more X-Ring hits are assured from 6.5 Creedmoor. And, at the High Master level it's X-Count that determines winners, since perfect scores are common. Now, considering the 6.5 Creedmoor can be shot from a detachable mag semi-auto having less recoil than .308 from similar platform, a shooter can better manage his 200- and 300-yard rapid fire positions. That's to say, there's time to dress up a sight picture, having greater resistance to recoil. At any rate, the only downside to the 6.5 Creedmoor compared to .308 is in context to barrel life and Marksmanship development. Shooters just getting into Long Range would be smart to compete with a .308 which necessitates learning how to appraise and counter wind.
In NRA High power utilizes Palma rules which negate 308 best bullets. The max grain bullets allowed by Palma are 156gr which takes away the 308's 168 and 175's.
The 6.5 cm is a great target round. Using the 6.5 cm for hunting is the same as the 6.5×55 using 140 gr. bullets. The 7.62x 51 is more flexible than the 6.5 because of all those heavier bullets to choose from.
For light game, the 6.5 Creed is an excellent cartridge. For long range target-shooting, it is one of the best. For large or tough game, it is seriously outclassed by the .308. Compare the best Hornady hunting cartridge, 143 gn PH at 2700 fps and a BC of .623 with the 165 gn Nosler Accubond or Ballistic Tip at 2800 fps, with a BC of .475. At sea level, the .308 exceeds the 6.5 in energy out to 500 yards, retaining 1500 lb/ft (minimum for elk) out to 400, while the 6.5 drops off the scale after 350. Take that to 6000 feet, 45 degrees, 35% humidity and 10 mph crosswind and the .308 carries 1728 lb/ft. to 500 yards, vs 1569 for the 6.5, and the difference in drop is negligible. The 6.5 will drift a bit less, but it will not hit as hard at any range. It was designed by Hornady to be a long-range competition round with the minimum recoil and best ballistics. All this assumes a barrel length of 24", since that is what the factories test with.
Yes and those numbers say one thing. Real life, cow elk at 400 yards 4 shots with 6.5 to bring it down. bull elk at 360 yards one shot 308 150 gn. will never use the 6.5 for elk again
@@MrStaybrown Its an internet thing I think. I come to youtube to learn knowledge, and a lot of it seems to be people saying they “dropped an elk” at 500 yards with a creedmor. I don’t buy it, and its physics. A larger projectile, weighing more, going faster is gonna smack wild game a lot harder. The 6.5 is skinnier, lighter, and slower. They both work well for what they were intended for.
gun owners love traditions. however, it's the wildcats that help the industry a lot more than those continually using grandpa's hand me down. tradition prevents innovation.
I live in northern Canada and use a 308 for everything. There has never been a wounded animal run away when I shot at it with the 308. I reload and use 155 to 168 bullets, Varget, IMR4895, BL-C2, and IMR4064. Magnum primers.
You basically just stated a very clear advantage of the 308. All the powders you just mentioned shoot good out of my bolt action and my AR-10. Creedmoor powders prefer 4350 slower powders which do not shoot well in gas guns.
Coming from high end air guns as my go to for shooting for years over my powder burners. Its interesting to see what is considered effective in terms of FPE on the side of powder burners. Where in the case of air guns those requirements are far different in terms of hunting. An air gun capable of producing 100fpe at the muzzle easily gets the job done at a good distance, with deer and even black bear. Sure its not near that of a firearm distance wise but still my point is that it would seem that the recommended FPE is drastically different between the two. Now dont go knocking air guns. They are very capable tools for hunting. Many, and I mean many states allow it. Even with the taking of the largest beasts that they have. I have recently started to bring out the firearms and purchased a 6.5 creed. Just a ramble I guess.
Actually… 156gr bullet in a 6.5 Creedmoor S&B makes it Same bullet they use for the 6.5x55 Which I took a 425 lb Black bear with in a sporterized Swedish Mauser in 6.5X55 at 75 yards it punched a hole straight through its shoulders breaking both shoulders The 6.5 Creedmoor kills better than its weight .. as the 6.5x55 has taken polar bears , Moose & Kudu & Elk The 6.5 Creedmoor can do the same .. only better But .. I hunt with a 308win Just is a incredible round
I own both calibers. I have found that Berger bullets are fantastic for My applications. The best load I found for the 6.5 is their 156 grain EOL Hunter line of bullets. However my 150 say’s I load for .308 out shoot the 6.5 hands down.
Wife loves her 308, but we don’t shoot paper we shoot things In brushy cover and I don’t want them running off .. 308 for the heavier bullets or I’d be using my 243 Winchester ... no a hater of the Creedmoor, just not a fan
The larger diameter makes the 308 much more deadly than the 6.5. I like the175 grain terminal ascent. The 6.5 CM is a target cartridge, OK for pronghorns.
I don't see why there would be a battle between .308 and 6.5C, but the 6.5C should be continually trying to prove why it has a right to exist against the .260 Remington.
Own both and unless you can make shots at 1000 yards or more consistently, I'll take .308 all day. Most 6.5 barrels burn out at 1500-2000 rounds vs 6000-10,000 with the. 308
@@jaxbeach09 I am a high master long range competitor. I used to shoot a 6.5/284. At 1000 yards I typically could hold about 1 to 2 MOA in prevailing wind. But after about 500 rounds it was very difficult to get 2 MOA cleans because of throat erosion. This was problematic for me since I shot about 50 rounds each weekend, meaning the expense of a new barrel about every 3 months. At any rate, I could not afford to replace barrels at 500 rounds so I switched to Service Rifle Division of long range competition which allows me to shoot my .223 match conditioned AR-15. With this rifle I can expect the barrel to last from about 1800 to 3000 rounds depending on whether it’s a button or cut rifled barrel. The cut rifled barrels last longer but typically are not as accurate as buttoned barrels. BTW, I also have put a lot of .308 rounds down range to 1000 yards and I can’t say how many rounds a 308 barrel can typically go. I have one 308 with a cut stainless barrel that has about 5000 rounds through it from 4 seasons of long range shooting and it’s still a half MOA gun with M118LR like it was from the beginning
I don't own a 6.5 rifle yet, so I can't speak to it, however I am reading that 6.5 eats barrels at more than twice the rate of a 308. Roughly 2500 rounds of 6.5 and you need a barrel swap vs 5000-6000 rounds for a 308. Has anyone experienced that?
Yeah, those number sound about right, but you have to remember there are many hunting cartridges which have much shorter barrel life than either of them. Even if you said it's just 2,000 rounds on the Creedmoor, not many hunters would fire that many rounds in their life. Competition shooters can fire more than this in a season, but they're not using .308. Actually most aren't even using the 6.5 anymore either, rather smaller 6mm rounds with even shorter barrel life.
308 all day. If you want longer range get a bigger cartridge like 300prc or even 6.5prc ect. Ammo price and availability. Plus a proven round and subsonic rounds is nice without having to buy a 300 blackout
I own both the 6.5 is a good round don’t get me wrong I w shot many deer with it through the neck body shots the deer tend to run away and I can’t find a blood trail they bleed more on inside of body cavity with the 6.5 but the 308 leave little more punch .
I agree the 308 is a great cartridge but not all the facts in this video are correct One of the most important things is that the Creedmoor holds its energy at long distance much better than the 308 does after 400 yards the 6.5 was a better choice up close the 308 wins every time this is why the military is switching over We have a lot of cartridges to pick from there’s a lot of good ones out there we shouldn’t just say one is the greatest
As a matter of fact I do own Bergara rifles in both 308 Win and 6.5 Creedmoor. I don't see this as an either/or proposition. I like them both so I own them both. But I confess to being a little more partial to the 308 Win just because of the flexibility it affords.
@@mustangdemon87 Cheaper and more readily available ammunition, higher energy down range by virtue of being able to shoot heavier bullets. In all the metrics that are important to me the 308 Win beats the 6.5 Creedmor.
@@caseroj6020 funny it has been easier to find 6.5 creed in multiple southern an western states this past 3 years. As well as 6.5 has been cheaper per round. 308 180g vs 6.5 creed 172g didn't different that much ballistically. So what else you got? 😏
6.5 creed at 1000yards had 319 inches of drop. 308 had 372 inches at 1280fps while creedmoor held 1490fps. 6.5 creed won't come out of supersonic for atleast another 200 to 300 yards pushing effective range out to around 1300yards. Because USSOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) found that, as compared to flat-footed .308 (specifically M118LR, the military’s best long-range .308 load), 6.5 Creedmoor doubles snipers’ hit probability at 1,000 meters, increases effective range by at least a third, increases energy on target by 50%, reduces the effect of wind by 40%, and has at least 30% less recoil, they begin converting their .308 Win MK110A1 and Mk20 rifles to 6.5 CM in 2018.
@@mustangdemon87 Like I said I own both type of rifles and during the "great ammo shortage of 2020-21" I was able to find 308 Win ammo throughout the year. I was not able to find 6.5 Creedmor ammo until about 3 months ago. I did manage to score three cases of it a few months ago but I had to scramble and quickly place my orders. The inventory was all gone two hours later. As far as pricing goes unless it's Nosler ammunition loaded with an accubond the 308 Win ammo has been consistently cheaper for me than the 6.5 Creedmor. I attribute all these observations to the fact that too many people have bought into the 6.5 Creedmor-mania and caused a spike in demand. Yes it is a good round but it is not the best round.
People say 6.5 creed is better. Yes you’re right ballistic wise. I like 308 because I can afford to shoot 2 rounds for every 1 round of 6.5 creed. The amount of practice and repetition I get will transfer over to 6.5 creed.
One of these has been used to kill everything on the face of the earth. Numerous times. The other has been used to hit steel at a mile. 65c is a cool little round. I bought my Bergara in 65c. But the 65 is extremely over-rated and just cannot do a lot of the things people claim EDIT: I forgot to mention that 175gr is getting damn heavy for a 308. Anything bigger and you need your head examined.
@@mr.nobody68 your point was that the 6.5 Creed can kill anything the 308 kills, as in "anything on Earth" AND hit steel at 1 mile? Not seeing how that is "extremely overrated".
I have shot a 240 grain bullet for a 308 but it works better from the 7.62x54r . I think it's because my Mosin nagant has a longer barrel it's heavy too.
That's kind of out there on the edge of reality. It is true that once you get to the bullets that weigh more than 150 grains, That's where the 3006 six picks up and gives it a run for its money and leaves it in distant dust. The 300 Winchester magnum beat that by a couple of hundred yards, but then again when you're shooting it beyond 200 yards, you're shooting, you're not hunting. If you want to go hunting take a pistol or a bow, THATS HUNTING.
To be honest the creedmoor whenever I hunt I have to hit the deer in the neck cause the round will cause it to bleed inside no blood drops compared to the 308
308 would be more effective inside 250 yards by transferring energy into the target. 6.5 could zip right through because it's moving too fast inside 250 yards. I think for hunting, 308 wins.
What I don't get is if the Creedmoor is so awesome, why wasn't the 6.5 swede or any of the .264s as popular. This is not a new idea. BYW, as a western elk hunter, I just don't think bullets under 165gr are a great idea, just me. I know probably thousands of elk are shot every year with less.
Hello! For target shooting at 300 meters I use since 1980 a winchester 70, Hart barrel 25 inches 13.5 pace with s Sierra 135 and 155 grs with Norma 201 With boh bullets groups measuring 3 centimeters. Barrel has already shot 9000 shots . I compete for olimpic matches prone kneeling standing. Long live 308!!
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 73 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "วรพล vs พันฤทธิ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rrOljlqse3A/mqdefault.jpg)
“Just because you can hit your target doesn’t mean you should shoot your target” That quote is spot on and should be the mantra for every hunter
The 308 Winchester is popular because it works REALLY well. If you buy a rifle in 308 you will never regret it.
So does 6.5. Why you think spec ops switched to it.
@@mustangdemon87 because it does the exact same...
@@bigjon576 with much more precision and less recoil.
Yup! It kills. Not only that but the recoil is entirely tolerable and any place that will have ammo will have some.
I have both. 6.5 is fine for white tails and pigs.
Dude after 500 yards, .308 loses energy faster.
Finally a good detailed video, simple, informative, straight to the point
Exactly.
Really appreciate the simple no nonsense approach, no pun intended, to this video. There are so many that try to break it down in so many ways but this gets right to the point. Awesome work!
I like the 7mm-08 it’s the best of both worlds right in between both probably the most underrated cartridges out there
I want to add a .284 to my collection and that’s on the short list. I don’t see it in stores too much where I live though. 6.5 CM and PRC is more common. I see 7mm Rem Mag more often, but hear it hits the shoulder pretty hard. I don’t really need to make a 500 yard shot and it is overkill where I live. I can hit past 300 yards with .308, but like 6.5 CM’s recoil more. If it weren’t so darned expensive! I like the concept of 7mm-08. Sounds like it does a lot well. Love my .308. But don’t think I’d want to shoot 7mm mag as much as I shoot .308. (I have more than one.) You get past 2 boxes of .308 and I don’t notice while shooting because I love to shoot, but the next day my shoulder’s feeling it. I’ve been thinking about a .243 for that reason. I see that all the time and the ammo is easy to find, but it is all expensive hunting ammo not fmj and I don’t like wasting hunting ammo. I shoot .223 a lot.
I agree, out to 400 yds the 7-08 will do just as well if not better than the 6.5. And compared to the 308 it has better BC and less felt recoil. NOT that there is anything wrong with any of them.
Hands down better than both inside 400 yds (my ethical limit)
Im thinking of a 308 bushgun and brass feeder to be converted to 7mm08 but trimming and resizing - and then uses same 7mm bullets as the 7mmPRC
Very underrated and should have replaced the 5.56 instead of the .277 as a "do all" IMO
Almost bought several seven mm08 until I realized I better buy 10 boxes ammo first.. or see just 1 at academy .
@@wileytw55yes my brother shoots 7-08
That's why you just skip all of the difficult thinking and just buy them both!
Great advice, and as a Hunter do not forget bigger hole better blood trails and usually faster blood loss. Most ethical shots on game occur inside 300 yards and my effective range in all field positions shooting with my sling are under 300 yards, so I choose .308.
Literally the best explanation between these two Giants that I have heard yet today! One is great here and the other is great there! Everyone wants to compare them both at the same time. Thank you.
I have a B-14 Hunter in 308 and love it! I recently shot a
Depending on the size of the game and distance; each gun has its purpose. I bought them both
At 500 yards, I think you might be surprised at how close the two are when it comes to retained energy.
6.5- small/ medium game and target round. Low recoil and requires a longer barrel
308- medium/large game and can run heavier bullets for more energy at 300 yards and in. Also can run a shorter barrel.
They’re both good, pick which one fits your needs. They were designed for 2 different things.
But the 6.5×55 swede has been used for moose for decades 🤔
@@MrStaybrown Deer have been killed with 22lr. Doesn’t mean you should.
@@MrStaybrown 3:39
Took a elk at 600 yards 6.5 creed 140g. So don't need a 308 by any means!
@@mustangdemon87 I am sure you did man. I bet you also can throw a pigskin a quarter mile also.
thanks for this👍
I found it helpful.
They both have their uses. If you want to punch paper (or ring steel) at 1000+ yards, get the Creedmoor. If you hunt at 600 yards or less, get the 308.
800yd with 308 shot an elk drop dead, perfect choice
Good points, BUT... 1. I just took my 2nd elk with my 6.5 cm, at 500 yards. 143 grain Hornady eldx performed flawlessly. The elk didn't seem to mind the lighter weight. 2. In Scandinavia they have been hunting moose with the 6.5 x 55 for over 100 years, and they continue to do so to the present day. It's all about shot placement and as good as the 308 is, and it's really really good, there's nothing it can kill that the 6.5 cm can't.
Excellent advice, Thanks Arron
Excellent commentary! Thx u
Excellent comparison and thank you for the info. I have been trying to consider which rifle I will get for hunting I was looking at the bolt action AXIS II Precision. Just wasn't sure which caliber yet. All my info talks very negatively about the .308 when comparing it to the 6.5 creedmoor. I like the .308 but everyone including some friends are saying 6.5 is better. This vid is an excellent comparison. I shot it a lot in the military. I still think it is a better round and it has proven itself as the (battle rifle caliber). Keep the videos coming and we appreciate your work.
I own both .308 and 6.5. I like both. Plus I don't split hairs. Both are all I'll ever need.
Just bought a 6.5CM (savage axis) for hunting coyotes and wild boar with my grandpa
VERY SUCCINCTLY EXPLAINED, THANK YOU.
I have a few .308’s. Also have a 7mm-08, I don’t need a 6.5. 7mm-08 is just better than a 6.5 imo.
Dearborn it's Rube, hope you're well bud great vid!!
The 6.5 carries more ft lbs of energy past 350 yds according to the charts.
Got my HMR in 308 and absolutely love it
Great Video!!!
The 308 will have cheaper and more available rounds. The barrel life will also be much longer than the 6.5
I choose.308 because that's what I have lol
How about a 7mm08
Great hunting cartridge. wish more rifles were chambered in it. When my .308 needs new barrel, gonna get it rechambered in 7mm-08
Great video. Do you all sell barreled actions that can be dropped into chassis systems?
If you have a shot at a mule deer at 500 yards, your best bet for an ethical kill isn't the 308. At 500 yards a 178gr ELDX is down to just 1,860 fps and may not expand. However, the 6.5 CM with a 143gr ELDX is still going 2,030 fps and will expand properly.
As for power, the 308 is at 1,377 ft-lbs of energy and the 6.5 CM is at 1,308 ft-lbs. Both still have more than enough energy to make a good kill at that range. The only limiting factor is whether or not the bullet expands.
Drop and drift for both rifles at that range is close enough it's not really an issue at that range.
The 308 definitely has the advantage in power under 400 yards, but that's about the extent of it's useful hunting range for large game.
I think rifle and ammo manufacturers took "Cash Cow 101" from the golf industry. New clubs and golf balls come out every week.
Are you better off getting a B14 HMR in 6.5 creedmoor or 308 IF you wanted to rebarrel the rifle later on and change calibers to try something new/get bored with the original caliber/etc.??
Is it good/acceptable normal wear and tear for the rifles receiver to change barrels/calibers every 6 months or so for the duration of the rifles life? I could see here you may want to work long range target matches in the Spring and Summer and be in 6.5 creedmoor and then go over to 308 in the same receiver for Fall and Winter hunting season.
I just bought a 308 for hunting whitetails yesterday, what grain do you recommend I use.
For me it's the .308 Winchester hands down. I live in Virginia at the foot of the Southern Appalachians, if I can get a 500 yard shot I'll be doing good. Besides, the only one I'll be competing against is my son, myself and maybe a couple friends.
I wanted to get a Bergara B-14 HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor or .300 Win Mag until I found out the life of the barrels are only about 3000 - 4000 rounds. I changed my mind to the .308 with a barrel life of somewhere between 10,000 - 12,000 rounds before a barrel change.
Short answer just get both!
Bigger hole the more they leak. I own both. Trophy buck within a couple hundred yards give me the .308. Meat in the freezer less recoil give me the 6.5 Creedmoor. Big bucks will run even with good shot placement sometimes. I hate having to trail a deer in the woods and then have to retrieve it from a bad situation of trees, brush and the like. Prefer dead in their tracks on big bucks. But hey I love my .270 as well as either of the other two. You just can't have enough rifles even though it does get confusing which one to hunt with when you have so many. I get confused every year, but I make sure to harvest deer with all of them. One has to have a reason to have a new rifle, right? Not if you're not married but it does help to have a cover story when you have a wife to convince you need another one.
I hunt the thick Woods of south Louisiana most shots under 100 yards in the brush. Have both calibers hoping they'll soon make a 65 cm in a round nose. Brush bullet. 308 has every bullet type under the sun . Wonderful comparison of calibers , unlike the bias" paid " people promoting 6.5cm. Your vid made me sub
The price difference is the only thing that matters to me. 308 all the way and I recently bought a B14 HMR. Love it to bits btw.
For me the difference is game size. Deer, 6.5 Creed. Elk, .308.
*That said* would I hut elk (or moose) with a 6.5 Creed? Yes, yes I would...but I'd be mindful and pick my shots a bit more carefully.
I have both and I grab the 6.5 all day long
@@123tl I like to head shot at 300m and it's the same cartridge just necked down infact you can put a 6.5 in a 308 and fire in and then reload it as 308. I keep my Tikka 308 for night shoots. But on foot and tracking the animals I yours my sako carbonlight
@@123tl your sister sounds Hot 🔥
Using CFE223 for both .308 and 6.5 CM, I developed loads and the results have me looking closer at .308. The .308 load with 155 grain bullet is averaging 2959fps, while my fastest 6.5CM 140gr bullet is averaging, 2781fps. The .308 rifle I tested does have a 2" longer barrel (24") but, I still wonder why the significant difference in speed. I should mention, the CFE223 in 6.5 CM has given me the highest fps out of numerous different powders tested. Scratching my head as I look at buying a Bergara and cant decide on Caliber. However, the 20" barrel on Bergara .308 just isnt long enough...
depends on what you need it for. I have a Bergara Wilderness Terrain in 308. The short fat barrel is deadly accurate. 2 inches don't matter for hunting. 308 is better for hunting that 6.5. anyways.
@@todsimpkins8908 Hard to imagine a situation where its all that much better.
Josh, unless you're shooting VERY far in the wind, doubt it ever really matters man.
Josh, it’s internal ballistics versus external ballistics. Internally, inside the barrel, the 308 can generate a higher velocity using similar weight projectiles than the 6.5 because there’s more surface area on the back of a 308 for the expanding gas to push against. Aside from the fact that you can put a few extra grains of powder in the cartridge, That’s why you can run the 155 grain in 308 so fast while you struggle to get similar velocities from the 6.5 Creedmoor. But the same thing that makes the 308 faster at the muzzle is what makes it lose all that velocity a lot faster as well.
I know a couple of old-timers who have shot more elk and moose with a 25-06 using 120 grain projectiles then you have probably ever even seen in your life. I say hunt with what you got and understand the characteristics of your chosen projectile and what it’s gonna do at different ranges and then make a decision about how far you are comfortable shooting at game.
And enjoy hunting and don’t let everyone else bring you down because you choose to hunt with this rather than that.
@@biggs8729 amen!
I like the 6.5CM because of the light recoil. when hunting with it, just get closer.
That’s was really helpful for me that I’m newbie. Thanks
Thank you 😊
It seems a lot of the comparisons come from the fact that both are on the lower end of the ballistics and it comes down to what you’re hunting.
The most meaningful measure for NRA High Power Competitor is MOA wind constant. The MOA constant of 6.5 Creedmoor is about 16-18 at 600 yards, while the .308 is about 12, meaning the 6.5 Creedmoor bullet is less deflected by wind. A 1 mph full value wind will displace 6.5 Creedmoor bullet about .375 MOA, or 2.25 inches at 600 yards. A 1 mph full value wind will displace .308 bullet about .5 MOA, or 3 inches. This contrast does not seem meaningful but since the X-Ring of the 600-yard target is only about 3 inches in diameter, more X-Ring hits are assured from 6.5 Creedmoor. And, at the High Master level it's X-Count that determines winners, since perfect scores are common. Now, considering the 6.5 Creedmoor can be shot from a detachable mag semi-auto having less recoil than .308 from similar platform, a shooter can better manage his 200- and 300-yard rapid fire positions. That's to say, there's time to dress up a sight picture, having greater resistance to recoil. At any rate, the only downside to the 6.5 Creedmoor compared to .308 is in context to barrel life and Marksmanship development. Shooters just getting into Long Range would be smart to compete with a .308 which necessitates learning how to appraise and counter wind.
In NRA High power utilizes Palma rules which negate 308 best bullets. The max grain bullets allowed by Palma are 156gr which takes away the 308's 168 and 175's.
Hornady also offers a 160gr RN in .264 that can be loaded in the CM.
Been working up new loads for these myself. Hoping for more elk next year
308 is a better round. Not too many people need to shoot at 1,000 yards.
The 6.5 cm is a great target round.
Using the 6.5 cm for hunting is the same as the 6.5×55 using 140 gr.
bullets. The 7.62x 51 is more flexible than the 6.5 because of all those heavier bullets to choose from.
For light game, the 6.5 Creed is an excellent cartridge. For long range target-shooting, it is one of the best. For large or tough game, it is seriously outclassed by the .308. Compare the best Hornady hunting cartridge, 143 gn PH at 2700 fps and a BC of .623 with the 165 gn Nosler Accubond or Ballistic Tip at 2800 fps, with a BC of .475. At sea level, the .308 exceeds the 6.5 in energy out to 500 yards, retaining 1500 lb/ft (minimum for elk) out to 400, while the 6.5 drops off the scale after 350. Take that to 6000 feet, 45 degrees, 35% humidity and 10 mph crosswind and the .308 carries 1728 lb/ft. to 500 yards, vs 1569 for the 6.5, and the difference in drop is negligible. The 6.5 will drift a bit less, but it will not hit as hard at any range. It was designed by Hornady to be a long-range competition round with the minimum recoil and best ballistics. All this assumes a barrel length of 24", since that is what the factories test with.
finally someone gets it. 6.5 for targets and small/medium game. 308 for medium to large game.
Yes and those numbers say one thing. Real life, cow elk at 400 yards 4 shots with 6.5 to bring it down. bull elk at 360 yards one shot 308 150 gn. will never use the 6.5 for elk again
But the 6.5x55 swede has been used for moose for a long time.
🤷♂️
I don't know who to believe
@@pahuntnut dang man, 4 shots thats crazy. Im glad it didn’t get away from you.
@@MrStaybrown Its an internet thing I think. I come to youtube to learn knowledge, and a lot of it seems to be people saying they “dropped an elk” at 500 yards with a creedmor. I don’t buy it, and its physics. A larger projectile, weighing more, going faster is gonna smack wild game a lot harder. The 6.5 is skinnier, lighter, and slower. They both work well for what they were intended for.
gun owners love traditions. however, it's the wildcats that help the industry a lot more than those continually using grandpa's hand me down. tradition prevents innovation.
What about the 6 arc how does it compare to this
The shooting sports is like golf. You don't see those boys argue over which club is best and they have a bag full of them. That works for me.
I live in northern Canada and use a 308 for everything. There has never been a wounded animal run away when I shot at it with the 308. I reload and use 155 to 168 bullets, Varget, IMR4895, BL-C2, and IMR4064. Magnum primers.
You basically just stated a very clear advantage of the 308. All the powders you just mentioned shoot good out of my bolt action and my AR-10. Creedmoor powders prefer 4350 slower powders which do not shoot well in gas guns.
@@leeeng478 Thankyou
Looking good buddy. Hope you are good...Red
Thus the reason I have a 308 & a 6.5 prc
Coming from high end air guns as my go to for shooting for years over my powder burners. Its interesting to see what is considered effective in terms of FPE on the side of powder burners. Where in the case of air guns those requirements are far different in terms of hunting. An air gun capable of producing 100fpe at the muzzle easily gets the job done at a good distance, with deer and even black bear. Sure its not near that of a firearm distance wise but still my point is that it would seem that the recommended FPE is drastically different between the two. Now dont go knocking air guns. They are very capable tools for hunting. Many, and I mean many states allow it. Even with the taking of the largest beasts that they have. I have recently started to bring out the firearms and purchased a 6.5 creed. Just a ramble I guess.
6.5 creedmoor has a max of 156 grain actually made by Berger, both 308 and 6.5 are awesome. Own both and shoot both enjoyably
It’s funny to read some of the comments on here. Most say one or the other is garbage 🤣🤣🤣
How does Aaron keep his beard so perfect? 😆
So 6.5 is a good round say inside of 100-300 yards for white tail?
will work fine
U can kill elk all day at that range
that round is good to 500...passed that you want to step up to a 6.5 PRC
Why does 6.5 cm have a red tip?
Actually… 156gr bullet in a 6.5 Creedmoor
S&B makes it
Same bullet they use for the 6.5x55
Which I took a 425 lb Black bear with in a sporterized Swedish Mauser in 6.5X55 at 75 yards it punched a hole straight through its shoulders breaking both shoulders
The 6.5 Creedmoor kills better than its weight .. as the 6.5x55 has taken polar bears , Moose & Kudu & Elk
The 6.5 Creedmoor can do the same .. only better
But .. I hunt with a 308win
Just is a incredible round
.308 is great on deer. It's also inherently accurate.
My 6.5 shoots every load I have put through it good. My.308 does not, certain ammo only.
The .30cal projectile I can load in a 300 blackout, .308 win., 30-06 for well under a $1 pop is gonna win for me.
I own both calibers. I have found that Berger bullets are fantastic for My applications. The best load I found for the 6.5 is their 156 grain EOL Hunter line of bullets. However my 150 say’s I load for .308 out shoot the 6.5 hands down.
Wife loves her 308, but we don’t shoot paper we shoot things In brushy cover and I don’t want them running off .. 308 for the heavier bullets or I’d be using my 243 Winchester ... no a hater of the Creedmoor, just not a fan
The larger diameter makes the 308 much more deadly than the 6.5. I like the175 grain terminal ascent. The 6.5 CM is a target cartridge, OK for pronghorns.
if i wanted something with more impact at a greater distance say 100y-250y for the cm out to 250y-350y i would jump up to a 30-06
I only buy calibers with a long history of military use, period. The only calibers I will ever own are 9mm, .45, .223, .308, .300WM, etc etc
Two different cartridges, serve two different purposes. One cartridge that can replace both is the 270 Winchester if you can only have one rifle.
I don't see why there would be a battle between .308 and 6.5C, but the 6.5C should be continually trying to prove why it has a right to exist against the .260 Remington.
6.5 cm can fit longer, heavy high BC bullets in the same size action. Factory rifles have faster twist to stabilize heavy for caliber bullets
Own both and unless you can make shots at 1000 yards or more consistently, I'll take .308 all day. Most 6.5 barrels burn out at 1500-2000 rounds vs 6000-10,000 with the. 308
Do some research man. 6.5 barrels can go 2000-2500 rounds. The 6mm CM will burn barrels out at 1000-2000 rounds.
@@jaxbeach09 I am a high master long range competitor. I used to shoot a 6.5/284. At 1000 yards I typically could hold about 1 to 2 MOA in prevailing wind. But after about 500 rounds it was very difficult to get 2 MOA cleans because of throat erosion. This was problematic for me since I shot about 50 rounds each weekend, meaning the expense of a new barrel about every 3 months. At any rate, I could not afford to replace barrels at 500 rounds so I switched to Service Rifle Division of long range competition which allows me to shoot my .223 match conditioned AR-15. With this rifle I can expect the barrel to last from about 1800 to 3000 rounds depending on whether it’s a button or cut rifled barrel. The cut rifled barrels last longer but typically are not as accurate as buttoned barrels. BTW, I also have put a lot of .308 rounds down range to 1000 yards and I can’t say how many rounds a 308 barrel can typically go. I have one 308 with a cut stainless barrel that has about 5000 rounds through it from 4 seasons of long range shooting and it’s still a half MOA gun with M118LR like it was from the beginning
I don't own a 6.5 rifle yet, so I can't speak to it, however I am reading that 6.5 eats barrels at more than twice the rate of a 308. Roughly 2500 rounds of 6.5 and you need a barrel swap vs 5000-6000 rounds for a 308. Has anyone experienced that?
Yeah, those number sound about right, but you have to remember there are many hunting cartridges which have much shorter barrel life than either of them. Even if you said it's just 2,000 rounds on the Creedmoor, not many hunters would fire that many rounds in their life. Competition shooters can fire more than this in a season, but they're not using .308. Actually most aren't even using the 6.5 anymore either, rather smaller 6mm rounds with even shorter barrel life.
As a sniper round I prefer the 308 as it's a harder hitter and ammunition is a lot cheaper in my country .
The sound of .308 ringing steel is just a little sweeter, a little more solid, than the 6.5cm
308 all day. If you want longer range get a bigger cartridge like 300prc or even 6.5prc ect.
Ammo price and availability. Plus a proven round and subsonic rounds is nice without having to buy a 300 blackout
7mm-08 can be good for plinking and hunt.
I own both the 6.5 is a good round don’t get me wrong I w shot many deer with it through the neck body shots the deer tend to run away and I can’t find a blood trail they bleed more on inside of body cavity with the 6.5 but the 308 leave little more punch .
I agree the 308 is a great cartridge but not all the facts in this video are correct One of the most important things is that the Creedmoor holds its energy at long distance much better than the 308 does after 400 yards the 6.5 was a better choice up close the 308 wins every time this is why the military is switching over We have a lot of cartridges to pick from there’s a lot of good ones out there we shouldn’t just say one is the greatest
Is this video try telling me which Bergara to buy? Don't fret, I bought both the 308 and the 6.5 Bergara rifles...
As a matter of fact I do own Bergara rifles in both 308 Win and 6.5 Creedmoor. I don't see this as an either/or proposition. I like them both so I own them both. But I confess to being a little more partial to the 308 Win just because of the flexibility it affords.
What's flexibility is different then 6.5 creed? Our group hasn't found anything pro 308. Just cons.
@@mustangdemon87 Cheaper and more readily available ammunition, higher energy down range by virtue of being able to shoot heavier bullets. In all the metrics that are important to me the 308 Win beats the 6.5 Creedmor.
@@caseroj6020 funny it has been easier to find 6.5 creed in multiple southern an western states this past 3 years. As well as 6.5 has been cheaper per round. 308 180g vs 6.5 creed 172g didn't different that much ballistically. So what else you got? 😏
6.5 creed at 1000yards had 319 inches of drop. 308 had 372 inches at 1280fps while creedmoor held 1490fps. 6.5 creed won't come out of supersonic for atleast another 200 to 300 yards pushing effective range out to around 1300yards.
Because USSOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) found that, as compared to flat-footed .308 (specifically M118LR, the military’s best long-range .308 load), 6.5 Creedmoor doubles snipers’ hit probability at 1,000 meters, increases effective range by at least a third, increases energy on target by 50%, reduces the effect of wind by 40%, and has at least 30% less recoil, they begin converting their .308 Win MK110A1 and Mk20 rifles to 6.5 CM in 2018.
@@mustangdemon87 Like I said I own both type of rifles and during the "great ammo shortage of 2020-21" I was able to find 308 Win ammo throughout the year. I was not able to find 6.5 Creedmor ammo until about 3 months ago. I did manage to score three cases of it a few months ago but I had to scramble and quickly place my orders. The inventory was all gone two hours later. As far as pricing goes unless it's Nosler ammunition loaded with an accubond the 308 Win ammo has been consistently cheaper for me than the 6.5 Creedmor. I attribute all these observations to the fact that too many people have bought into the 6.5 Creedmor-mania and caused a spike in demand. Yes it is a good round but it is not the best round.
308 is still the best .
6.5 Creed is for guys who secretly sit down when they pee
How do you know??
308 ... 👍🏻
Another thing to consider is barrel life…
Buy both.
I shoot 156 gr out of my 6.5 Creedmoor all the time. Sako has been offering it since 2019 if not earlier.
.308 all day long..
It's 20.00 a box cheaper, and works better.
These two cartridges are miles apart from each other.
People say 6.5 creed is better. Yes you’re right ballistic wise. I like 308 because I can afford to shoot 2 rounds for every 1 round of 6.5 creed. The amount of practice and repetition I get will transfer over to 6.5 creed.
Ballistic wise in California copper only hunting the Creedmoor is not ballistically superior.
I mean factory loads for the most part are better in 6.5cm but if you handload you can push heavier high bc 30 cal bullets faster with 308
One of these has been used to kill everything on the face of the earth. Numerous times.
The other has been used to hit steel at a mile.
65c is a cool little round. I bought my Bergara in 65c. But the 65 is extremely over-rated and just cannot do a lot of the things people claim
EDIT: I forgot to mention that 175gr is getting damn heavy for a 308. Anything bigger and you need your head examined.
Everything on the face of the Earth? Doubt the 308 is killing things a 6.5 is any more marginal at
@@joelodjick230 thanks for proving my point
@@mr.nobody68 your point was that the 6.5 Creed can kill anything the 308 kills, as in "anything on Earth" AND hit steel at 1 mile? Not seeing how that is "extremely overrated".
So what can't it do? 🤔 6 to 8 of us on the team switched 6 years ago. Still have zero issues. With game, target, or hostiles.
@@mustangdemon87 Maybe all this real world success is just part of the "overhype" ;)
I have shot a 240 grain bullet for a 308 but it works better from the 7.62x54r . I think it's because my Mosin nagant has a longer barrel it's heavy too.
That's kind of out there on the edge of reality. It is true that once you get to the bullets that weigh more than 150 grains, That's where the 3006 six picks up and gives it a run for its money and leaves it in distant dust. The 300 Winchester magnum beat that by a couple of hundred yards, but then again when you're shooting it beyond 200 yards, you're shooting, you're not hunting. If you want to go hunting take a pistol or a bow, THATS HUNTING.
@@stephenembrey883
Why not just use a club ? It's a lot lighter and cheaper than my 458 Winchester magnum. Shame I can't run that fast anymore 😭🤣🤣🤣
To be honest the creedmoor whenever I hunt I have to hit the deer in the neck cause the round will cause it to bleed inside no blood drops compared to the 308
308 would be more effective inside 250 yards by transferring energy into the target. 6.5 could zip right through because it's moving too fast inside 250 yards. I think for hunting, 308 wins.
I love my creedmoors but I would be lying if I said it was more effective on deer than 308
What I don't get is if the Creedmoor is so awesome, why wasn't the 6.5 swede or any of the .264s as popular. This is not a new idea. BYW, as a western elk hunter, I just don't think bullets under 165gr are a great idea, just me. I know probably thousands of elk are shot every year with less.
"Big game" with two legs wearing a ballistic vest? .308 OR 6.5 CM
I think your fucked either way, but 308 was a designed battle cartridge so I guess I'd pick that
Hornady makes an A-tip 153gr.
I got a 308 135gr 3000fps which shoots very fast, so there's no need for me to get 6.5CM. 308 is a perfect choice and it's not going anywhere
Hello! For target shooting at 300 meters I use since 1980 a winchester 70, Hart barrel 25 inches 13.5 pace with s
Sierra 135 and 155 grs with Norma 201
With boh bullets groups measuring 3 centimeters. Barrel has already shot 9000 shots . I compete for olimpic matches prone kneeling standing. Long live 308!!