Yes! Thanks Dave, I feel very honored to have my demand answered on this channel that i absolutely love, looking forward to hear everything that you sugest (with the deserved time and attention). I would like to thank you about another thing, yesterday I listened to Smetana String Quartet no. 1 "From my Life" and I was blown away!! Thanks!
Very good choices! Oiseaux Exotiques is also a good entry point for Messiaen's ornithology. I would also recommend his Eight Preludes for piano, which are a direct extension from Debussy's Preludes. A quite painless introduction!
I often cited Messiaen as a composer who created (as much as is possible) a totally original language (as you allude to in your opening statement). Then I listened to some of those late, gargantuan works of Koechlin, written more-or-less at the time Messiaen was just "finding himself". It's not only the obvious use of the Ondes Martenot, but a very similar harmonic and textural idiom between the 2 composers that suggests that Messiaen was paying attention to his older colleague. Both are equally fascinating (and lovable). LR
Hiya and yes. Also there’s so much Liszt in there (for people who think that didn’t go anywhere). In the virtuosic pianism, the chorale like tunes, the birds, and the sense that the music is just steering clear of a judgment of trashinness sometimes .. but that judgment wouldn’t get the music would it?
In the mid 1970’s I went to a performance at the 92nd Street Y in NYC of Michel Beroff playing the Vingt Regards sur l’enfant Jesus. He played it with an intermission. I got up during the intermission to use the bathroom and to my amazement so that.Olivier Messiaen was seated directly behind me. I got his autograph to add to what became a collection of autographs from Ligeti, Boulez, , Henze Babbitt and best of all Elliott Carter, who I once by chance in 1972 sat down by chance next to on a Long Island Railroad train. We spoke for about one hour. Unfortunately all the autographs were lost during a move.
Messiaen is so much fun. There are other composers who have a musical language of their own, but none are more distinct than Messiaen (come to think of it, maybe Anton Webern would be at the same level, and then of course the minimalists, especially Steve Reich). I once took my 10-year old daughter to a performance of the Quartet, in Madrid back in 2006. We sat in the front row, and she slept through the whole 50 or so minutes, mouth open and all. She was more into Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and Bob Marley, maybe not then but a few years after that. I know because those CDs were always missing from my shelves.
I first got interested in Messiaen as a teenager after hearing a review of Michel Beroff playing the Vingt Regards, which I bought and enjoyed immensely. I remember a Jewish school friend who admired Messiaen, but was somewhat put off by the overt religious programme in many works. He introduced me to Chronochromie, an orchestral work, containing much transcribed birdsong; which is very colourful, and one of my favourite Messiaen works, but understandably not included among those in this video, as it is less immediately approachable.
I would have asked if I’d know that you’d respond. Messiaen has long been a favorite. Transcendence is a choice word to describe his works. No argument with any of your choices. I’d only add Chronochromie but then as you’d comment there isn’t time for everything.
Thank you for this. I have also been trying to get into Massiaen and the way you laid out his method makes a lot sense. I've always found his works interesting but bewildering rhythms and tones with a bit too much dissonance at times. I did not know they were the Indian rhythms and birdsong at work. I will find a version of the Turangalîla.
Great choices Dave. You haven’t really talked about the quartet before- such a great work (although I think the clarinet’s movement to shine is the “abyss of the birds”, not the “crystal liturgy” - the latter really illustrates some of the interesting rhythm experiments though!) I’d have been tempted to add an organ piece, not a whole work, maybe “Dieu parmis nous”, the toccata at the end of the “Nativity of Christ”. Part of the religious aspect in Messiaen seems to be to totally overwhelm you, and that piece is so exciting (and overwhelming) it might convert the doubtful to the organ, if not to Catholicism:-)
My added Messiaen organ piece would be "Apparition de l'Eglise eternelle" which is Messiaen's version of Bolero (kind of). I've heard it performed live twice!
This whole series is great, and even though I’m not a “beginner” by any stretch. You always manage to make the “for beginners” talks just as interesting for the rest of us. A request that you could include recommendations of recordings for these key works. Particularly here, as your recent review of the Turangalila by Gimeno showed. That is, you noted how most Turangalila recordings blow it by taking it too fast. This info is of use to beginners and more seasoned listeners alike. Anyway, a humble request for key recordings (or just one) for these key works.
That's what the videos about the individual works as well as the tens of thousands of reviews at ClassicsToday.com are for. Anyone interested can easily find reviews and recommendations there,.
You did a great job explaining why Messiaen is a unique and singular composer. I still find it difficult to tolerate his music, in spite of of, or rather because of, his individual ways of expressing himself. To my ears it is extremely dissonant and unpleasant, and I always end up feeling irritated and depressed. I once tried to explain Messiaen to a friend - not nearly as well as you do. I began playing a recording of Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-Jésus. She asked, "Is that a dog playing the piano? You know, how they have videos of dogs playing the piano?" Her comment was perfectly innocent, but I confess I feel that way most of the time as well.
It’s a symphony with a solo obbligato part (even two in this case, for the piano and the ondes-martinot). I don’t think it has a specific name, but it’s in the same vein as Scriabin’s Prometheus (which is his fifth symphony with a piano solo part) and Prokofievs sinfonia concertante (which has a a cello solo part and essentially is a cello concerto).
Yes! Thanks Dave, I feel very honored to have my demand answered on this channel that i absolutely love, looking forward to hear everything that you sugest (with the deserved time and attention). I would like to thank you about another thing, yesterday I listened to Smetana String Quartet no. 1 "From my Life" and I was blown away!! Thanks!
My pleasure!
3:45 You've got rhythm, you've got religion, you've got birdsong. Who could ask for anything more?
Modes of Limited Transposition that Messiaen created and developed.
The Turangalîla Symphonie was the piece that really got me into classical music. I really like his organ works as well
Very good choices!
Oiseaux Exotiques is also a good entry point for Messiaen's ornithology.
I would also recommend his Eight Preludes for piano, which are a direct extension from Debussy's Preludes. A quite painless introduction!
I often cited Messiaen as a composer who created (as much as is possible) a totally original language (as you allude to in your opening statement). Then I listened to some of those late, gargantuan works of Koechlin, written more-or-less at the time Messiaen was just "finding himself". It's not only the obvious use of the Ondes Martenot, but a very similar harmonic and textural idiom between the 2 composers that suggests that Messiaen was paying attention to his older colleague. Both are equally fascinating (and lovable). LR
Hiya and yes. Also there’s so much Liszt in there (for people who think that didn’t go anywhere). In the virtuosic pianism, the chorale like tunes, the birds, and the sense that the music is just steering clear of a judgment of trashinness sometimes
.. but that judgment wouldn’t get the music would it?
In the mid 1970’s I went to a performance at the 92nd Street Y in NYC of Michel Beroff playing the Vingt Regards sur l’enfant Jesus. He played it with an intermission. I got up during the intermission to use the bathroom and to my amazement so that.Olivier Messiaen was seated directly behind me. I got his autograph to add to what became a collection of autographs from Ligeti, Boulez, , Henze Babbitt and best of all Elliott Carter, who I once by chance in 1972 sat down by chance next to on a Long Island Railroad train. We spoke for about one hour. Unfortunately all the autographs were lost during a move.
Messiaen is so much fun. There are other composers who have a musical language of their own, but none are more distinct than Messiaen (come to think of it, maybe Anton Webern would be at the same level, and then of course the minimalists, especially Steve Reich). I once took my 10-year old daughter to a performance of the Quartet, in Madrid back in 2006. We sat in the front row, and she slept through the whole 50 or so minutes, mouth open and all. She was more into Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and Bob Marley, maybe not then but a few years after that. I know because those CDs were always missing from my shelves.
I first got interested in Messiaen as a teenager after hearing a review of Michel Beroff playing the Vingt Regards, which I bought and enjoyed immensely. I remember a Jewish school friend who admired Messiaen, but was somewhat put off by the overt religious programme in many works. He introduced me to Chronochromie, an orchestral work, containing much transcribed birdsong; which is very colourful, and one of my favourite Messiaen works, but understandably not included among those in this video, as it is less immediately approachable.
I would have asked if I’d know that you’d respond. Messiaen has long been a favorite. Transcendence is a choice word to describe his works. No argument with any of your choices. I’d only add Chronochromie but then as you’d comment there isn’t time for everything.
A friend recently got me into Messiaen but also Sculthorpe and zenarkas. Seriously very high quality classical music.
Thank you for this. I have also been trying to get into Massiaen and the way you laid out his method makes a lot sense. I've always found his works interesting but bewildering rhythms and tones with a bit too much dissonance at times. I did not know they were the Indian rhythms and birdsong at work. I will find a version of the Turangalîla.
Great choices Dave. You haven’t really talked about the quartet before- such a great work (although I think the clarinet’s movement to shine is the “abyss of the birds”, not the “crystal liturgy” - the latter really illustrates some of the interesting rhythm experiments though!)
I’d have been tempted to add an organ piece, not a whole work, maybe “Dieu parmis nous”, the toccata at the end of the “Nativity of Christ”. Part of the religious aspect in Messiaen seems to be to totally overwhelm you, and that piece is so exciting (and overwhelming) it might convert the doubtful to the organ, if not to Catholicism:-)
Yes, you're right of course. The bird thing!
My added Messiaen organ piece would be "Apparition de l'Eglise eternelle" which is Messiaen's version of Bolero (kind of). I've heard it performed live twice!
@@phomchick that must have been really getting your awe inspired :)
Thank you, Dave. Please could you cover Martinu next?
Or soon…
This whole series is great, and even though I’m not a “beginner” by any stretch. You always manage to make the “for beginners” talks just as interesting for the rest of us. A request that you could include recommendations of recordings for these key works. Particularly here, as your recent review of the Turangalila by Gimeno showed. That is, you noted how most Turangalila recordings blow it by taking it too fast. This info is of use to beginners and more seasoned listeners alike. Anyway, a humble request for key recordings (or just one) for these key works.
That's what the videos about the individual works as well as the tens of thousands of reviews at ClassicsToday.com are for. Anyone interested can easily find reviews and recommendations there,.
I really wish that you had explained his music to me back in 1984 instead of my music history teacher 😂
Mr. Hurwitz, what do you think of John Rutter? There isn't much about him in your channel, perhaps you could do a video on his work.
You did a great job explaining why Messiaen is a unique and singular composer. I still find it difficult to tolerate his music, in spite of of, or rather because of, his individual ways of expressing himself. To my ears it is extremely dissonant and unpleasant, and I always end up feeling irritated and depressed. I once tried to explain Messiaen to a friend - not nearly as well as you do. I began playing a recording of Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-Jésus. She asked, "Is that a dog playing the piano? You know, how they have videos of dogs playing the piano?" Her comment was perfectly innocent, but I confess I feel that way most of the time as well.
I suppose your friend should be congratulated in knowing so many serene and spiritual dogs, if you’re talking about the first “regard”…
How do you call the sub-category where the Turangalîla-Symphonie fits in?
It’s a symphony with a solo obbligato part (even two in this case, for the piano and the ondes-martinot). I don’t think it has a specific name, but it’s in the same vein as Scriabin’s Prometheus (which is his fifth symphony with a piano solo part) and Prokofievs sinfonia concertante (which has a a cello solo part and essentially is a cello concerto).