The HP inflation makes me very concerned of what’s coming in 3.x for Amphoreus, given my E1 Himeko SuperBreak Team can’t 36* 2.6 MOC. I only got 35 stars. I’m ready to pull Aglaea & Sunday, but I’m not ready for my Feixiao to hit 200k only to scratch off 8-9% health
@suhridguha2560 I used my E1 Mei as well, but somehow I always hit that 19 cycle mark, like everytime I attempt it. With HMC & Gallagher too. I could keep trying at it, but honestly, I don’t wanna lose my sanity trying over & over for 80 extra jades
Note, you can do a 2 x 2 x 2 gear set to get a higher SPD, which is about 17+. Then add Boots SPD 25, you can get about 40+ SPD. Now, you can get more turns in a cycle, a little easier, more turns more damage. Also, DDD is helpful.
On top of hp inflation. They forcing you to play certain characters and teams. So u cant even use the actual characters you like without insane lvls of investment.
While power creep is inevitable, they really need to slow it down. It's getting really hard to keep up with the state of the game when we have a 1.5mil health increase just cause the new character can pump out more damage. There are people saying "Do you really need to clear all the end game content?" and while the answer is no, it's not like they are giving us anything better to do not to mention that Jades are involved incentivizing people to do it, not to mention it feels extremely bad to have 35/36 stars on moc because you didn't invest in the newest latest and greatest. This level of power creep shouldn't be encouraged just cause a few people don't care, it needs to be toned down so that the foa team isn't immediately gimped just cause Rappa does 5x more damage.
@@chomperplant2843 that is the fallacy of power creep, if it's too fast you force it to be faster until the numbers get too big to make sense. Eventually they would end up in a situation where every new character could completely invalidate the previous characters existence. If they want to keep up this level of power creep they would have to start directly buffing old characters but we both know that they would never do that lest they invalidate the reason to pull new characters.
@@ToothpickSamurai Well isn't that the marketing plan for Hoyoverse. Rather than buffing old characters to risk losing their income. It would make new units useless.
@@chomperplant2843 The point of the matter is never to stop the power creep, but to stop increasing it at a ridiculous rate. Cause yes you're right, they need new characters to be better or else they wont sell. But it's currently at a rate that's way too harsh, cause Feixiao just came out last patch and the follow up team is already starting to feel bad since Rappa got released.
@@ToothpickSamurai But its hard to balance the power creep. Usually companies that makes power creep creates a marketing success. So if it became their only source of income. If it either got leaked whether how useless the kit or how op the kit is. The usual blame is on the players for giving them that kind of mindset.
I used my DoT Acheron team with Meh relics and a Rappa team because that boss is specifically made for Superbreak. The fact you managed to 8 cycle it is actually pretty fast. 0 cycling is for whales.
@@usmansubhani7482 I agree that 0 cycling should not be the main goal since you get max rewards at 10 cycles. I'm just shocked with the sudden cycle increase. Doesn't help that Svarog was nerfed by around 400K Health right before the new MoC dropped.
Hoolay really showed me the direction this game was going for the 3 endgame modes, and thats when I realized im done with pulling for meta, I'm not falling for this trap of them artificially inflating the HP of enemies to sell the new 3.X characters I'll just pull the characters I like and call it a day, I cant full clear endgame and I never will
i never really focused on all the meta stuff and have only ever pulled for characters i actually like and find the game 10x more enjoyable 😭😭😭its worth as hell
100% agreed, I'm in the same boat. I literally redid my entire pull plan which meant dumping 4 or 5 characters from the 'pull on rerun' category, to the 'full skip and never pull' category. Two of which are *Robin and Aventurine.*
@@TheJH1015 Aventurine is the only "meta" character I really have and even then I didn't even pull him for meta reasons, I just pulled him because I like him lol
I want to everyone to know that Svarog was actually nerfed right before the MoC dropped. Current Svarog has 1.6 million health, he originally had almost 2.1 million health, around 450K more health.
Hp inflation is the laziest form of difficulty increase, i went from zero cycling every MOC for the last year, to 5-6 cycling the last two moc's, and i have very well invested units.
This is true, but mihoyo uses also another form of powercreep in giving specific buffs and enemies for the endgame modes that force you to have a good team for each archetype or even element. What other forms of powercreep are preferable in your opinion? The worst case scenario in my view is for mihoyo to scale enemy damage up too much, so every team needs a healer and a shielder again and we have to run very suboptimal teams because of it, but maybe even that will happen with time, if they want to release more sustain characters for every archetype.
👏👏👏 Just gotta say we can't have this level of laziness in terms of difficulty increase. Such a brain-dead solution to making difficulty by slapping more health on an enemy and showcasing older characters being trash in terms of pitiful DPS.
The main problem are the new dps. They are the true cause of this inflation; when you pass from 200k~300k of Jingliu to 600~700k of Acheron is obviously that enemies need to been inflicted, else Acheron oneshot all the contents. Their mistakes is make so huge dps after few time.
The new SU mode is horrendous for HP inflation. I can have all three Scepters at 5000 strength, Acheron doing 3 mil+ Brain-in-a-Vat buff, and the final boss still takes several minutes to complete on Torturous difficulties.
@@MurakamiTenshi Yeah, like there was a run that my Scepters was dealing like 10/20 mil per hit and that was like 1/2% of the boss HP. After that i just got all possible rewards i could (like 2k jades) and got back to DU, at least there im having fun.
worst still, have fun trying to get 80 jades by doing a run with only DoT scepters or only speed scepters. Unless you managed to get 7000 ~8000 str scepters somehow, you can pretty much kiss your run goodbye before even starting your final boss battle...
@@loreyxillumina raw damage HSR VS Amplified damage with reactions genshin. Plus HSR is a turn based game vs a genshin you can do so good to maximize damage.
I agree with your general opinion, and its fine to call the tvs good design but that boss is also the WORST case of hp (and even toughness) inflation in the game dude has literally 5 million hp people without acheron/rappa would not be struggling on that boss ANYWHERE NEAR as much if it had like 60% of the hp to make it more in-line with other bosses
@@zasshu.7240well for aoe units its quite easy tbh. My JY before sunday cleared it in 3 cycles and he is E1S0. But, on a side note, feixiao is too broken so they are balancing the game around that (i think). And then the next big powercreep will come and the same thing again.
@@zasshu.7240 well during the last MoC cycle each of the puppets in past present and eternal show had 576,110 hp per phase so.... its just a case of more enemies share the same hp bar so the boss naturally have more hp to compansate for the fact that there are more target you can hit to damage it, basically it just that the TV is made for AoE compared to the puppets which are made for Blast in reality they have about the same amount of hp but more targets = more overall hp. the tvs even have a bit less hp per target
@@deltaspecies1697I'm fact the true problem isn't the HP inflation (it is a consequence), but the new DPS that are too strong. Passing from 200k of Jingliu to 600~700k of Acheron forced the devs (themselves) to inflating the HP. Increase the bar of dps (damages) so high and frequently is the true cause of this shit. Ppl complain, but still loves new toys, specially if OP, so we have not way out.
Yes! I’ve upgraded my Feixiao since the last MoC and really improved her stats and.. it’s really discouraging that she is struggling so much more than the last time even though she is much stronger. It does not feel good when your character hits 500k+ and it still feels like they do barely any damage. I’ve was not so bothered by powercreep previously, but such drastic HP inflation will ruin the game if they continue down this road.
As soon as I pulled for Acheron, HP inflation happened. I waited for her rerun and got her signature LC cause I saw how everyone was clearing everything with Acheron easily. And now that I have her, suddenly she feels weaker cause of HP inflation ☠️ I hate it here
This is why I can never trust someone when they say a DPS is future proof. Not even Acheron, Firefly, and Feixiao are future proof, and they will be treated the same way characters like Blade and Jingliu are currently being treated within a year or less, trust me
It's not the solution. It's been proven that 1.x characters with eidolons (even E6) will not perform as good as 2.x characters at lower eidolon. All the superbreak characters don't need any eidolons or sig ligtcones to clear. Hoyo should make more enemies that counter break instead of inflating that HP.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek You guys understand that countering break will fuck everyone? not only that you are killing an entire archetype, what do you think if they make a enemy with thorns? the more you attack it the more you get damaged or debuffed, think about it, this types of changes kill not only units but entire mechanics. I am going to use the game "slay the spire" has a example, theres a boss in there that will stop your turn of playing cards (the game is turn base with cards) if you do too much actions, now put that in his game, each action you do be it attack or not will increase a countdown and when it reach a x amount your characters lose the entire turn and all enemies advance forwards 100%, now if you have a team that deals alot of damage in short burst you will never interact with this mechanic but for FuA you are almost guarantee to have fun with it.
@@Zergling. I know it would screw some players. I myself have a superbreak team, Rappa literally made this MoC a breeze for me, but I can also see how insanely OP these teams are. I'm not saying every enemy should counter break now, hell nah, I intend to pull Fugue soon, but something has to be done to counter it from time to time, so that people won't brute force every endgame mode with it, and the realese of Fugue is very much going to enable that since you'll be able to have 2 superbreak teams now.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarekWe already have enemies like this where they lock their Weakness Gauge and oh boy do they ruin the damage output for Break teams while also not hurting other teams to badly.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek i think the sentiment that they can balance the game by 'nerfing' certain comps with enemy design is sound enough but if thats the case they probably wanna think about what comps the want to raise up as well as which they are nerfing. If they designed a few enemies that were tough for fua superbreak acheron and threw 1.x dps a bone id be fine with that.
Hoyo devs: Our own premium characters are making the game too easy. Hoyo devs: Let's fix it by HP inflation.. Powercrept characters: What about us? Hoyo devs: Then we'll give you FREE standard Powercrept characters.
The moment I saw a free Standard 5 Star, I knew it was already shit because all of them have been powercrept from the start. Why would I need them or even gain a duplicate when there's a premium character that can do way better than the Standard 5 Star with eidelons?
@@yoursleepparalysismonster8391 Exactly. Best case scenario of this is Yunli & Clara. As much as folks don’t wanna admit, I’ll be the first to say Yunli is straight up powercreep to Clara, getting free 100% crit dmg on her ult base kit plus having a built in taunt on ult + Sig LC that increases her aggro value. Not to mention, her technique giving her an equivalent of an ult based counter on turn 1 of each fight. This is coming from someone who lost their 50/50 to Yunli & still doesn’t have a Clara yet. Probably just save my ticket for Remembrance path or something, idk
@yoursleepparalysismonster8391 - because someone dislikes some premium version units (Yunli and Sparkle for example) - Budget version of premium units = saved jades (Himeko/Gepard labelled as Firefly/Aventurine Budget maybe is too much, but mine (Himeko)is strong enough to clear all contents)
Here is the thing, they are doing the same thing in Genshin, but Genshin is also releasing supports that buff the older characters. Honkai needs to do the same or it will kill the game.
Not properly. Genshin good job was to release dps with not a great difference on power: they put a target (7), and they released characters around that target (6-7-8), so they are not forced to HP inflating so frequently or so high. Plus what you said. With Neuvillette and Natlan they increased the target, but the enemies are still weak. In HSR they release DPS stronger then the previous ones. If the target was level 8 (Jingliu), they increased it to 12, with a too many units at level 13-14. (3 units at lv.14 are "too many")
Dude, we want more CC like you and Smacks who call out this HP inflation problem! Because many people in these communities show hostility and hatred toward those who discuss this problem and often silence them.
Right, theres barely ccs talking about this because their content heavily focus on the character aspect, but not other aspects of combat, enemy design. It's really starting to get dull. These videos that talk about the current state and such are refreshing and entertaining.
I really hate the mentality these devs have that the only way to make something challenging is making the opponent have asinine amounts of HP to the point doing 5 million damage only drops 2% of the opponents HP!
Before I even watch this I was thinking about this yesterday and the hp inflation is so bad if I’m forced to pull for remembrance in 3.0 I think I’d genuinely rather play genshin and drop this game lol. At least in genshin, wuwa and zzz I can play whatever I want but I’m tired of this star rail bs where your favorite character can be borderline unusable
The game is clearly encouraging players to pull for all archetypes. If all you want to do is play the same boring hypercarry for years then yeah, the game might not be for you. The future of the game is just players bringing whatever the turbulence says they should bring just like it does in PF.
@@jhopan_3271 And that's fine, but let's not pretend like this isn't something basically everyone wants. Almost one wants to constantly play the same few characters and thats it.
Idk how you can downplay character powercreep when we literally have Sunday, Feixiao, and Yunli literally replacing previous characters in their previous teams. EDIT: Wait what, Break teams sacrifice everything to buff one character like hypercarries? That's one of the few comps where every character does damage or contributes to the burst phase to the point Lingsha is a dps and Rappa needs the rest of the team to break for her to do the most damage. I'm being annoying but I do agree with most of the video lol
Yep slight correction about that part as well everyone knows that superbreak is the same as followup comps where even supports deal decent damage this is with the exception of bh teams where u run hyper break instead
Superbreak rn is focused on one character but unlike Hypercarry where 3 characters buff one, Superbreak has 1 character heavily buffing the whole team.
Ya i dont really get the insistence to seperate hp inflation from character powercreep when they clearly go hand in hand. Hp inflation pushes old units out of the meta while the new units rotate in with higher dmg multipliers. If you want old units to stay relevant then hp inflation has to stop but so does powercreep of raw damage multipliers on new units and LCs.
I hate HP sponges used for artificial difficulty. Especially as a means to try to sell more powerful characters. I will see 3.0 and if this becomes too much of a problem where I cannot finish with my characters now, then I will just quite.
@@scenicsudan Same. People say she's op and 99% of the time she is. But she's not a solve-all, even with her break team all geared up. I cannot finish apocalyptic shadow right now. I literally do not have the characters or jades for it.
Its sometimes not about " I don't want to pull this unit's BIS "; often times its "I cannot pull everything single ones of this units' BIS. " Not everyone can pull every single character.
Indeed, but that is why people gotta be smart with investments. Example, topaz is bis for feixiao. Not necessary at all. March 7th or moze is more than enough if you got the Robin. Or jiaoqu for acheron. Yes that is bis for her, but again, not required. People still clear moc12 using pela with her instead. Just gotta make the important investments, which is almost always your supports. If your supports are strong (Ruan Mei, sparkle, Robin or Sunday,) you will be fine. If you are using an old character like dhil, ok you might wanna consider pulling his sig or an eidolon on his re run. But otherwise, you should be fine. Gotta remember which investments are smart and which are just luxury.
*me fully knowing about the HP inflation and praying that mihoyo will released a HP% damage unit soon becaused the HP% damage mechanic is already in the game.*
saving pulls instead of spending on the newest character to try and clear content and get all the rewards, will just give you more pulls in the long run. Getting someone you "need" now will keep you from getting someone you want in the future
They won't. You underestimate how casual hsr playerbase is. Most of the players don't even care about endgame content. Most of the players don't even play the game. They just do the story and pull for characters.
This is why I laugh in people's faces when they are always saying to just wait for the rerun of a character in a hoyo game. Hoyoverse will never rerun a character unless they are a support that can be marketed next to a hyper-carry, or a DPS that will be made irrelevent by their replacement a patch or two later. People waited a very long time for archeon to be rerun and now she's irrelevent because of feixiao. And guess what? When feixiao gets a rerun, it will not be until she gets replaced. That's why you only get 1 chance to roll on hyper carry characters. This is why I advise newer players to only play when a hyper carry banner starts because without a hyper carry, the game gets exponentially harder since you got no supports, no adventurine, sparkle, lingsha, nothing.
One of the most frustrating things is it's not even a case of needing the newest units to keep up, you need the newest unit AND their signature weapons AND e1/e2 to keep up with the content. It honestly doesn't feel worth going for new characters if I can't guarantee at least their weapon to go with them.
"Firefly's (or Boothill/Rappa) team works the same way" Isn't Super Break quite literally being memed as like... HMC/Lingsha showcase team, and that it makes it so that everyone's a DPS?
Pretty much, and that's honestly the beauty of super break teams. You don't just have one carry doing the heavy-lifting, everyone (except Ruan Mei) is a super break DPS.
I play at least one DU/SU run a day purely for fun, and only play the endgame modes when they’re about to end. So I still pull for my favorite characters so I can play them in SU, and DU auto builds them anyway. The problem is that jades and other in game resources are locked behind the endgame modes, so if I want to pull for the next character I really want, I have to preform well in the endgame. So I’m caught between going for my favorite characters, and pulling whatever cracked new character I need to clear the endgame but don’t really like. Maybe if they added an extra hard endgame mode that only gave an achievement but no rewards, so the super meta players got to have a challenge without the rest of us feeling like we’re missing out. Or scaled enemy power level to your team, similar to how DU automatically scales your characters.
Regarding your problem, it's not worth it. Let me show you some maths: I believe when getting to lategame, you can get 1200 jades easily (Moc8, PF2, AS2) and struggle for the rest 1200, for every 42 days, or on average 200/week. So 1 year ~ 52 weeks ~ 52 x 200 = 10400 jades = 65 pulls, not even enough to get hard pity a characters. So the trade off is never worth, however if you play for the challenge then either break f2p or quit.
The solution, should be do at least 1 meta pull (the dps you like the most), so that team make you able to 1) complete content 2) play your favorite team with less anxiety. I did it last year: my favorite chara is Himeko, my meta pull has been Jingliu. Able to complete the contents. In 2.0 I pulled Boothill (and FF only to be used as omni breaker for Himeko😂). But I'm lucky because Himeko is eating so good that she now is my strongest team. If you hate all the meta units, is unluck.
It's FUA. Firefly gets absolutely cucked by an enemy locking their toughness bar, Firefly mains will tell you themselves how bad to play she feels in this scenario. She's braindead easy to pilot, but she isn't the issue. FUA cheats the entire action economy of the game as their core mechanic. The archetype's so over-supported it's ridiculous, it's impossible to reliably mitigate for unlike other comps because the archetype has an option for everything, and their Sustain option basically makes most other Sustain options that aren't Huohuo irrelevant.
Firefly’s team is definitely not hyper carry. It’s a team designed to have everyone contributing to breaking, contributing to damage, extending breaks to do more super break, Mei does damage everytime someone breaks, Lingsha is perfectly tuned to be FFs sustain and sometimes contributes just as much damage. That is absolutely a cohesive team that allows everyone to contribute and no one just sacrifices their turn to let Firefly do more damage.
Omg dude, this NEEDS to be talked about more. I just played it and yeah, the hard statistics showing the huge incline in HP pools of these enemies is insane. If this is their smooth brain solution for difficulty, then where are the buffs for older characters? Enemies get buffed, but our characters' DPS stays the same... lol cool hoyoverse.
Iyo, character powercreep IS the same as HP inflation powercreep. Devs make enemies tougher, to provide incentive in pulling the new characters that have similarly grown stronger in comparison to older characters. If characters weren't made stronger by the patch, devs couldn't justify making enemy HP double or triple their current value, because eventually nobody could even clear the content. Don't know where you get the notion that they are separate issues.
EXACTLY! Is what I'm saying everyday. The true culprit are the new characters that does x4 dmg of the previous one. Is obviously that if Jingliu did 200k, and now Acheron does 700k, they have to inflating HP
Remember when people thought that having powercreep in HSR will make the game exciting because it will push the game to greater heights "compared to genshin"? Well whatever happened to them lmaoo
On the FuA and Acheron part: You sorta nailed it. I like the Fua and DoT teams BECAUSE all of the members are characters I like a lot. (Kafka, Swan, Mei & Fei, Robin, Topaz, HIMventurine) so them fitting in a team is perfect for me. I REALLY don't like anyone who Acheron wants (i hate using Pela, don't care for the fox guy nor did i have the pulls as f2p, and using swan without kafka for Acheron seems weird) therefore using her teams feels scuffed for me, not to mention the scummy way the E2 is handled, so I just usually run Acheron in my hyperinvested DoT team because they clear all the same. Now Hoyo is pushing the break archetype, with carries that I REALLY do not care for so it feels bitter. Also, they handle metas terribly. When it's X-meta, they hamfist X's mechanics and buffs into all endgame modes so you are forced to utilize it, otherwise good luck clearing as a f2p bucko'.
as someone who invested a lot into nihility + DOT teams in my account, i'm just rlly sad to see my fav characters that used to be able to clear everything rather easily flat out fail to do so in the new endgame... plus seeing how they're again delving into hypercarry meta again, i doubt DOT will get any love anytime soon 😿 at least jingliu may rise up again with sunday (an unit i didnt even wanna pull for in the first place but I have a feeling he will be the BiS support for a lot of remembrance characters).
I used my DOT team in this MOC but a complete premium dot team with S1 RM and E1 HuoHuo still took 4 cicles to kill that thing... Every attack felt like I was just tickling svarog
If they were gonna do hp sponges why not buffing older character for half-annually reruns? Also DPS powercreep is a thing and will be. But what if the buffer/sustains, which is the core of team build, becomes obsolete as well? I dread the future where Ruan Mei, Robin, and Sunday becomes unusable 😭
now why would they do that? They won't because hoyo doesn't care it doesn't hurt them unless the CN community says anything nothing will matter hoyo only cares about the CN community
no because for one most aren't big creators and two none are CN creators, the CN community is all that matters the rest of us don't matter to them. hoyo is a CN company all they care about is CN
It already did after Acheron's arrival. "We have to balance for those with Acheron E6". Yeah? At least BUFF THE OTHER CHARACTERS TOO. I miss using Kafka, or Destruction Trailblazer.
I took a break and returned a year later, and I noticed I'm struggling while using the same team. Not really struggling, but I'm just not killing things as fast as I used to.
So, here's a good example of HP inflation, Aventurine MoC 12 during September 2 -> October 10 MoC, had 1,089,372 x 2 HP; Aventurine MoC 11 during the latest MoC had 1,004,919 x 2 HP. The current MoC 11 is almost the equivalent of MoC 12 from 2 months ago! That's how bad this HP inflation is! Svarog isn't the best example because the poor guy wasn't in MoC 12 before this. Also, I'm curious how much the HP will increase in 2.7? 3.0? My ass struggling with 7-8 cycling MoC 12 might end up at 35/36 stars in the future if I don't pull new characters, especially DPS characters... Hope The Herta is up to par or else I'm cooked!
Sadly this is just how Hoyo makes endgame content, just HP pools so large you can't properly deal with them without the Banner Character and their Sig equiqment.
The fact that their bad design practices have bled into the main story enough that they decided it was better to add and easy mode honestly says everything for me. This game always needed interesting mechanics to stay fresh, never enemies that delete teams with no aoe debuff removal, or infinite shield looping, or healing made to outpace the heat death of the universe. And still they build it as if they need to keep upping the challenge of the game. Nothing is challenging about the game punishing me for not rolling on a character who cost $300 who went away months ago.
I think a point you miss is that the reason that they can make HP inflation like this is so that they can sell better and better characters, it's like the inflation death loop from real life economics.
I've been clearing all endgame modes with E0S1 Yunli/E0S0 Topaz/E1S1 Robin/E0S0 HuoHuo and E0S1 Acheron/E0S1 Swan/E0S0 Kafka/E4 Gallagher but I can feel its getting harder and harder, especially because I don't play suberbreak and Fei Xiao. But as long as I can clear without the most meta teams I won't complain too much
It's honestly not too bad for Firefly premium team, you just gotta be smart. Save Lingsha's ult for the second wave, make sure the TVs are happy as long as they aren't locked yet, and sometimes you gotta let one of the TVs be unbroken to give you energy/SP/action advance.
Horizontal investment is more beneficial to a player that is struggling than vertical investment. You can clear any and all content with E0 characters, but you'll have a much harder time clearing content if you're missing certain characters. Invest in characters; not eidolons! If you're not having any issue then pull for whoever you want, and if you're into 0 cycles then sure, invest in some eidolons.
He is a whale and pulls pretty much all characters with their Sigs (+ Eidolons) so he doesn't know what he's talking about. You're completely right; unless you're spending significant amount of money into the game, vertical investment is a no go. Just keep pulling for the newer units @E0S0 (forming synergistic teams, obviously) and it's easy peasy. Maybe you can pull a couple of the most broken Eidolons FOR SUPPORTS (this is Key) like Ruan Mei or Robin E1 if you really want to min-max.
@AngelOnerom It's something I encounter often; someone struggling with certain content and I asked them what teams they're using, their teams are a bad match-up but they're the only teams they have _(like someone I know who went heavy into Acheron and her team only to have two bosses with 40% Lightning Resistance.)_
Vertical investment doesn't = whale out on a single thing. It means invest (smartly) in the 1-2 teams you are building so they can clear everything in that moment, then move on to the next. A player struggling in this game is not due to hori vs vert investment at a base level. Each player's problem is different and, to be honest based on the data we already have from HoyoLabs, Prydwen, etc. the newer players have some of the strongest options in the game for free. March 8th is a multifaceted DPS. Gallagher is their best F2P healer. Ratio is Ratio. Clara & Himeko have had huge come ups since their release, & you're guaranteed at least 3 5-stars before the end of Belebog. Ima keep it a buck, some players just make bad decisions early on (probably cause they don't know any better), then blame it on the game. We've all been there before.
@Iyoverse yeah, some players make bad choices, and Relic investment is the usual culprit, but as a general rule you're better to get characters over eidolons - especially if you're F2P as it will be tough enough to even build out some of these teams in the first place.
Most of my friends quit because they felt like the game forced them to play characters they didn't like months after spending money on units that no longer felt strong. Hell, I barely play nowdays too and will probably quit if my e2 acheron and feixiao fall off after 3.0 . Not rewarding this practice anymore, hsr didn't give us a chance to show our support for the game, they just kept ruining our units
They would have to make enemies that are fully resistant to being broken, since superbreak and characters that benefit from it like Firefly, Boothill and Rappa are more than likely the reason for the HP inflation. It would screw the people that invested in break teams though, but we definitely need more enemies that counter that.
My E0 S1 70CR/200CD Acheron took 7 cycles to clear the Svarog me: man! I'm scared, my favorite characters Acheron and Firefly are becoming useless Seele, Blade, JingLiu, JinYuan, DIL mains: first time?
@@ShockSmile there probably is a problem on your supports cause my E0S1 64/245 Acheron only took 4 cycles on auto to clear svarog. My FF took 5 cycle to clear the TV but when i try it again with super break himeko i did it on 4 cycles.
Again a very simple solution is just buff the multipliers on older units so they can at least compete with newer units. It is crazy that Feixiao has a 700% ultimate and Seele a character with the same path has only a 400% ult. If Hoyo simply buffs her numbers to say 600%-650% that at least makes Seele viable in newer content. There's a video out there discussing how Hoyo can do this & that is follow something similar to FGO. FGO has a system in place where the devs can introduce buffs to older or 'weaker' servants either by doing a battle quest or a story quest to unlock the buffs. These quests often adds lore or flavor texts to the buffed servant. Hoyo can easily introduce something similar into the companion missions.
Tbf Seele can get her ultimate up faster than Feixiao (especially in PF) and her skills do way more in the right team setup. Seele teams can also stack Def shred whereas Feixiao's team has access to none. Feixiao's obviously still a lot stronger than Seele (outside of PF at least), but raw multipliers can be very misleading.
Doesnt manter of they increase the numbers of old characters, if they keep increasing the HP off the enemies we will end up in the same situation. Today: My unit deals 700k damage -> boss have 1.5 mil HP Tomorrow: My unit deals 1.5 mil damage -> boss have 3 mil HP. In the end, if they keep doing the HP inflaction it would not matter if they buff old characters, nothing would have changed.
@@gabrielcruz8339 Just giving an option to at least make older characters viable in newer content instead of just being bench warmers after spending a X amount of money on them. Like it may not matter to casual players but it would really suck that someone pulled a e6S5 older character only for them to be unusable in future content. Buffing their numbers slightly can at least have them be usable to some extent. Increasing their lifespan so to speak.
@@izumolee6714 Yeah i know i, and i would love if that was the case, you see im a new player, and i loved Jingliu, so i will be pulling for her next rerun, so having her being buffed and being entrusting to use would be a amazing, but it doent matter, if Hoyo keeps increasing the mobs HP that Jingliu would end up in the same situation: not dealing enough damage becuse the boss have too much HP. Its a endless cicle. At least until Hoyo breaks it, what i dont see they doing.
Ultimately the biggest problem is for new players because of how they have us acquire characters. What you said about vertical investment in the game is kinda key every new 5 star you get on a team is a pretty significant increase. The problem with this is that you have to very intentionally build an archetype potentially months before it becomes top tier since you can only get characters from their limited banner. In most other gachas you have at least the ability to get these older characters that work well with the latest and greatest but in star rail you just cant do that. Ultimately what matters most is synergy it doesnt really matter if you have feixiao if you dont have robin and you really want adventurine and topaz with topaz being the most replacable. But for new players it could take a very long time to get these archetypes working and they will be powercrept and not worth the investment by that time. With how the games core functions work day 1 players shouldnt struggle in the MOC ever because if day 1 players are struggling in a game where the age of your account is nearly as important as how mucch money you put in then how are new players ever supposed to be able to clear. Hopefully theyve just been inflating hp to stop zero cycles and we will level off for a while without any more severe hp inflation. As a side note the way cycles work in the MOC also just sucks.
Hoyo: WOW, we need to stop HP inflation Another Hoyo: Next patch we will lower the boss HP, but of course will double the defense, make the buff less impactful, double the attack, double the res and everything. As long as players don't realize, it will be good.
Also its not to prevent 0 cycle, its so that the content doesn't feel braindead with new units. Since firefly release, she has constantly been most use unit in both MoC and Apoc. Regardless of what the ememy gimmick, she breaks it so fast that it particularly dont matter so they are going to make boss harder eventually, its basic design logic. Like taking fgo example, when merlin got released and enabled dps to just nuke high hp in single turn, they introduced break bar to prevent that. When skadi released snd she just became defacto farming support, they introduced unit irregular enemy count farming. When castoria released and made gsme completely brain dead, they have been creating Challenge quest with overtuned gimmicks to at least make players feel somewhat challenged but still failing since they have to keep in account for f2p setup which at that point wouldn't be able to do anything. They released Oberon to make character be able to do absolute nuclear damage for a turn so they created 90++ farming nodes to match his power level. Basically its an after effect of units like an acheron and firefly who just became not only versatile like what DoT was supposed to be but excel so far ahead in damage number that every new dps need to compete with them and if we get new units who can generate potentially higher number like Yunli or Rappa, they are still considered skip material by community cuz they arent as universal as those two or Feixiao
dang, this is honkai impact 3rd all over again doesnt it? Make new tanky enemies, create “arguably” long stretch ass story to introduce (promote) new char (yea i am looking at you Rappa). And endgame cattered to new char while “screwing” old damage dealer.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek fu against hoolay is such a masochist move xD that guy attacks soo fast fu can't keep up. That's why i use houhou instead at least she can outheal hoolay attacks.
HP inflation is the only way they can provide any form of difficulty, because the majority of the playerbase are absolutely braindead. Look at the number of people who struggled with boss Aventurine mechanics, enough to necessitate a flat out removal from various modes.
I was unaware people couldn't figure that out.. but I doubt it.. The entire point is to sell new characters and the rest of us mean nothing to hoyo becuase hoyo is chinese and the CN playerbase is likely their main funder and all that matters.
@@yulfine1688 Go watch Box2's video(Xm06UkLMiJQ) from 5 months ago for a small taste of how much skill issue the community has. If you can clear moc/pf/shadow you're literally in the top percentile.
Pulling for Fugue because I love Tingyun but after that I have no interest in the new summon meta I just want to play what I want to play but powercreep meta just feels like a chore and the story feels like a chore to get through too
Finally people are waking up of this dream (no pun intended) of thinking HSR is the perfect game The story recently is so ass so so so much yapping god damn
Also the HSR devs back themselves into a corner with Firefly who could clear any enemy due to weakness implant, so in order to encourage sales they could either bloat the enemies HP where firefly become ineffective or stack up the break effect bar which they have already done with Hoolay.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek which then makes break useless including all those chars, they dug their own hole because they're stupid and because they don't care about anyone but the CN community, it matters little how much we complain or what we do. Hoyo doesn't change anything until the CN community tells them to.
@@yulfine1688 No, it would limit the usage of superbreak teams in certain scenarios, which would in turn stop and reverse the HP inflation of enemies. Saying "because they're stupid" makes you look like you're having a child's temper tantrum. Don't do that if you're trying to make a point.
It's really just on floor 11 and 12. A couple of bosses steal a team member to lease the output of your team. Bottom line is they will do many things to keep a challenge to veterans, hp is one of them. It's inevitable. What I wish would happen is when mechanics are on the top of the screen it lasted longer so I can grasp the mechanics. Eventually they will reduce that time too lol
I'm so on board with this as in with your take. Because the way you do power creep or challenge correctly is new and fun mechanics. HP inflation is the most boring and annoying way to scale content.
I have a Jingliu with herta cone 2.6k attack base with newest set jingliu loves alongside 97% crit rate during skill with 210% critdmg alongside bronya at E2 and she couldn't even do MOC properly so i had to resort to superbreak
lmao just looking at the first wave of second half on floor twelve for the current moc is crazy each one of the puppet bosses have close to 800k health meanwhile the Svarog of the past barely has more then that 😭 health power creep go crazyyyyy
14:53 I think this the best way to make the endgame difficult. Just combine the different bosses that synergies each other. Bronya and the DoT puppet is a strong combo.
Im gonna be so honest hearing that talk at the beginning as a DoT enjoyer had me giving bombastic side eye. Because that shit does not apply at this point. Kafka can't hold that team together for much longer lmao
@@dante19890 Of course but it's normal. In 1.0 you have nothing. No leveled units, no weapons, trash relics ect. So changes are normal here and understandable. We had first HUGE hp inflation with MoC11 and 12. With Acheron+ it was only worse and worse with every patch. It's a Pay2Win game now. Or you need to be a meta slave if you want to be a F2P and get every jade. Current state of the game is not ok.
Everyday i think about the sweaty gamers that cried about how easy MoC is and because of that Hoyo added stage 11 and 12. Now i just open MoC to clear stage 10, try 11 and if i pass, try 12, if i dont i close the game and play other games. im not about this stress.
what teams are you using? I'm in a similar situation. Managed to get 36 stars in MoC (Rappa on one side, and Feixiao on other side), but for some reason the current pure fiction is quite tough. Can only get one star in the 4th level of PF,
@@boiledliddo feixiao meta team and tried both firefly meta team and herta meta team. my feixioa meta team relics are great but the others could use a little improving but theyre still decent.
Mihoyo is based in China and China has laws to regulate gatcha games. One of these laws is that they cannot nerf a character post release. They did try that for both Yae Miko and Neuvilette in Genshin but had to revert the changes back to pre nerf as less than 12 hours after the nerf a lawsuite was filed against them. Gatcha games needs to find ways to sell newer characters and if there was never any power creep how do they entice that? If your 700k hit one shots an enemy still a new characer doing 2 mill hit wont feel any different. If they increase the HP to 1.6 mill then you need to 3 shot with the 700k and 1 shot with the 2 mill so now the 2 mill character is more appealing to use. They can't nerf a character in the terms of balance because companies will nerf characters to the point of being useless so newer characters sell better and thats what the law in china is for. The company controls the level of power creep as it controls the power gap for the new characters and the pressure on older comps. Power creep is in Genshin too but it has been a lot slower and I would like to see some harder content so my characters can feel like they can actually get a work out for a change.
When you realize that mihoyo is a scumbag company that just wants your money by any means necessary. Whether its hiring people to make fake social media accounts telling you that every character is a must pull to having accelerated power creep.
Simps complain about it, but they easily fall in love for characters (80% OP dps that are actively contributing to the HP infliction), and meta players just look dps numbers, and if are OP, they become excited. No way. The only hope is if Hoyo decided to not increasing so much the difference between 2.x dps and 3.x dps
that is any gacha company... its not new to anyone, except plenty of gacha companies buffer and nerf units and edit modes etc... hoyo is just stupid and they don't care about most of the playerbase because they are not chinese, the CN playerbase likely provides almost all of their funding I can promise that
It is an interesting thoery if the whole inflation stuff is specifically to target 0 cycles. But even still, it shouldn't be done to make us pull the newer character and not use the older ones or the ones we like
Hi, these are my thoughts on the video :) Powercreep is the direct cause of hp inflation, so they are equally detrimental to the game as they have the same effect on the game. As you said, they increase hp to make the end game modes hard, because if you took feixiao against the 800k hp svarog from before it's dead instantly. Increasing the hp of new bosses shouldn't be given an exception just because they are well designed; they are more difficult through design AND hp inflation, they quite literally have the same hp as svarog + elite, so saying they're more difficult than old bosses through design is partially true but also the hp. Svarog is a damage check, the banatvs are a dmg check that requires thinking, but both end with the same issue of the older weaker teams clearing much slower than they used to. If the banatvs stayed the same hp, older characters would have a chance to 0 cycle (but it'd be free for new chars). Ofc both power creep and hp inflation work together to form a hollow purple aimed at old charcaters but it is what it is. Now less related to the main point of the video, the marionettes and the banatv are good boss design when not faced by firefly/rappa respectively. The marionettes basically don't get to move except for the one big attack as firefly insta breaks, and the banatv is all turned happy or breakable by rappa/her team. Fighting them without those 2 is fun and lets you engage with the mechanics.
Everyone out here talkin about how it's so hard to zero cycle MoC 12 and I'm struggling to do it in 11 just trying to get that last damn star. They're gonna keep making it harder and harder to prevent the zero cycling meta, and the only ones losing are the people just barely clearing each cycle. This ish has to stop man.
I don’t really give a shit about the hp enemies get, I can wait 5 years to kill a boss, my main problem is the enemies damage, I can’t get past certain parts of simulated universe extensions like the swarm because the enemies that are usually weak as hell can deplete half of my fu Xuans health even while her damage reduction field is active, so I gotta run yunli, gepard, luocha, and fu xuan as a team because if not my hp leaves like my dad did only in half the time, unless there is something I’m missing I’d say that the enemies damage is the real problem
You might be okay with not being able to kill a boss for 5 years because of HP inflation in your extreme example. But I highly doubt the majority of players feel the same. And the majority opinion is what matters for the health of online games.
I haven't watched the video, but HP inflation is so evident if you do an old characters ascension mats. Just got aventurine from his rerun, and the enemy required for it had like max 200k hp compared to a newer one.
People already have setups dropping half a mil damage+. Why are we acting like HP "bloat" or "powercreep" is a problem when it's the foundation of EVERY VIDEO GAME EVER.
Maybe bexause it invalidates older chatacters you pulled for, powercreep would be okay if they buffed older characters but when its to the point when it gets significantly harder to beat content and you need to pull the newest character thats when it's bad
@@IzuruKamakura-e6v So once again every single game ever. In fact, the sign of a GOOD game since it gives purpose to the newer characters. You'd otherwise bitch because nobody your pulling for is good.
@@fettel1988 bullshit. u can still use starter characters to complete abyss in genshin but in star rail even my fully build kafka team can't even clear floor 11. star rail is fucking trash. All my friends stopped playing star rail cuz of this bullshit
@kcjpunk that's skill issue. Literally. I have a kafka Sampo team. The only invested character is my Ruan Mei at e1 s1, and it beat moc 12. 5 cycles. You are playing old non meta buddy. Don't expect a walk in the park. Hell, I beat floor 11 (many consider it harder than 12 this cycle) with my qinque. Sit there and tell me qinque is meta, I dare you. Lmao, but I have a nice sparkle e0 s0 to help. Btw, my clara and himeko still beats pf, as well as herta being free and tier 0. Hmc and march 7 are free and meta. Gallagher is a 4 star who is stronger than 5 star luocha. Etc. If you want to play older stuff, play better and do smart investments. That, or pick up meta and click auto battle. Just keeping it real
When Acheron first came out, I ended up getting her very early at 10 pity when pulling for some Eidolons I wanted. Even though I liked her, I did not plan to have her given that I wanted Aventurine more given that I lacked sustains. Still, damage was done, I lost my guaranteed on her so I decided to build her. I with a level 72 E0S0 Acheron, a very rushed E4 Pela, a neglected E0S0 Silverwolf and FireMC was destroying all game modes at the time. Little to say, she was busted as hell. However, now I managed to acquire her lightcone and build her up properly after months, made a gamble that paid off by getting an E0S1 Aventurine with 15 pulls in his first patch, getting an E6 Pela that I finally built properly, and doing some maintenance on my Silverwolf, one might think this team is extremely busted, which it is, however, despite doing more damage than ever before, it barely feels any different from my original half-assed team.
Are you kidding? Genshin is so easy you can literally clear abyss with anything, not to mention effing Imaginarium Theater... No but seriously, Abyss is getting easier with every version.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek it is gonna change after 5.3 as I said, the difficulty of the abyss and theater will increase just due to a release of one new character…
@@skrypnykk.770 We already have OP characters like Neuvilette, Arlecchino, Alhaitham, Nauvia, Mualani, Furina. They all make Abyss a breeze. What makes you think Mavuika's release is going to change anything when the difficulty is consistently dropping not increasing?
@ because Mavuika is basically 2x stronger than each of characters you wrote above, abyss will be made optimized for her, and obviously way harder for older characters
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
First inflation screws me irl, now it's screwing me ingame
Welcome to the UK
and i’ll be screwing you next
@@usmansubhani7482 Welcome to the entire Western world. We're all screwed.
This hits hard in today’s society.
Can i join?@@DaRealSk.
The HP inflation makes me very concerned of what’s coming in 3.x for Amphoreus, given my E1 Himeko SuperBreak Team can’t 36* 2.6 MOC. I only got 35 stars. I’m ready to pull Aglaea & Sunday, but I’m not ready for my Feixiao to hit 200k only to scratch off 8-9% health
dude noo.... i used e0s0 break himeko for the dino side, got it in 5 cycles. although i have e1 ruan mei so maybe that helps :3
@suhridguha2560 I used my E1 Mei as well, but somehow I always hit that 19 cycle mark, like everytime I attempt it. With HMC & Gallagher too. I could keep trying at it, but honestly, I don’t wanna lose my sanity trying over & over for 80 extra jades
Note, you can do a 2 x 2 x 2 gear set to get a higher SPD, which is about 17+. Then add Boots SPD 25, you can get about 40+ SPD. Now, you can get more turns in a cycle, a little easier, more turns more damage. Also, DDD is helpful.
@@RygarFang1599 DDD?
@@BmanRockhart i got it in 3 tries :3
what are the speeds on your characters?
On top of hp inflation. They forcing you to play certain characters and teams. So u cant even use the actual characters you like without insane lvls of investment.
Some are certanly useless in PF and Apoc Shadow
@mystey1 and that shouldn't be the case. We invest time and money into these characters just for them to be damn near unplayable a month later
While power creep is inevitable, they really need to slow it down. It's getting really hard to keep up with the state of the game when we have a 1.5mil health increase just cause the new character can pump out more damage. There are people saying "Do you really need to clear all the end game content?" and while the answer is no, it's not like they are giving us anything better to do not to mention that Jades are involved incentivizing people to do it, not to mention it feels extremely bad to have 35/36 stars on moc because you didn't invest in the newest latest and greatest. This level of power creep shouldn't be encouraged just cause a few people don't care, it needs to be toned down so that the foa team isn't immediately gimped just cause Rappa does 5x more damage.
But they can't slow it down. Unless it is forced upon making useless characters that won't make benefit of money.
@@chomperplant2843 that is the fallacy of power creep, if it's too fast you force it to be faster until the numbers get too big to make sense. Eventually they would end up in a situation where every new character could completely invalidate the previous characters existence. If they want to keep up this level of power creep they would have to start directly buffing old characters but we both know that they would never do that lest they invalidate the reason to pull new characters.
@@ToothpickSamurai Well isn't that the marketing plan for Hoyoverse. Rather than buffing old characters to risk losing their income. It would make new units useless.
@@chomperplant2843 The point of the matter is never to stop the power creep, but to stop increasing it at a ridiculous rate. Cause yes you're right, they need new characters to be better or else they wont sell. But it's currently at a rate that's way too harsh, cause Feixiao just came out last patch and the follow up team is already starting to feel bad since Rappa got released.
@@ToothpickSamurai But its hard to balance the power creep. Usually companies that makes power creep creates a marketing success. So if it became their only source of income. If it either got leaked whether how useless the kit or how op the kit is. The usual blame is on the players for giving them that kind of mindset.
Me watching my RRAT and Acheron teams go from 5-cycling last Moc to 8-cycling this MoC despite having better relics.
I used my DoT Acheron team with Meh relics and a Rappa team because that boss is specifically made for Superbreak. The fact you managed to 8 cycle it is actually pretty fast.
0 cycling is for whales.
@@usmansubhani7482 I agree that 0 cycling should not be the main goal since you get max rewards at 10 cycles. I'm just shocked with the sudden cycle increase. Doesn't help that Svarog was nerfed by around 400K Health right before the new MoC dropped.
My acheron took 3 and my break team 2
@@Ocacadordecasadasweird flex but ok lil bro
@@blueblazedemon Was not suposed to be a flex,Just strange you guys took that long
Hoolay really showed me the direction this game was going for the 3 endgame modes, and thats when I realized im done with pulling for meta, I'm not falling for this trap of them artificially inflating the HP of enemies to sell the new 3.X characters
I'll just pull the characters I like and call it a day, I cant full clear endgame and I never will
Your problem is still Blade, brother. 💀
@ I wish he was a 3.X character 😭
i never really focused on all the meta stuff and have only ever pulled for characters i actually like and find the game 10x more enjoyable 😭😭😭its worth as hell
100% agreed, I'm in the same boat. I literally redid my entire pull plan which meant dumping 4 or 5 characters from the 'pull on rerun' category, to the 'full skip and never pull' category.
Two of which are *Robin and Aventurine.*
@@TheJH1015 Aventurine is the only "meta" character I really have and even then I didn't even pull him for meta reasons, I just pulled him because I like him lol
I want to everyone to know that Svarog was actually nerfed right before the MoC dropped. Current Svarog has 1.6 million health, he originally had almost 2.1 million health, around 450K more health.
Hp inflation is the laziest form of difficulty increase, i went from zero cycling every MOC for the last year, to 5-6 cycling the last two moc's, and i have very well invested units.
This is true, but mihoyo uses also another form of powercreep in giving specific buffs and enemies for the endgame modes that force you to have a good team for each archetype or even element. What other forms of powercreep are preferable in your opinion?
The worst case scenario in my view is for mihoyo to scale enemy damage up too much, so every team needs a healer and a shielder again and we have to run very suboptimal teams because of it, but maybe even that will happen with time, if they want to release more sustain characters for every archetype.
👏👏👏 Just gotta say we can't have this level of laziness in terms of difficulty increase. Such a brain-dead solution to making difficulty by slapping more health on an enemy and showcasing older characters being trash in terms of pitiful DPS.
The main problem are the new dps. They are the true cause of this inflation; when you pass from 200k~300k of Jingliu to 600~700k of Acheron is obviously that enemies need to been inflicted, else Acheron oneshot all the contents. Their mistakes is make so huge dps after few time.
There are only 10 levels of MoC last year blud.
@@SuperKevinho1Why is everyone blaming Acheron when superbreak is the actual problem?
The new SU mode is horrendous for HP inflation. I can have all three Scepters at 5000 strength, Acheron doing 3 mil+ Brain-in-a-Vat buff, and the final boss still takes several minutes to complete on Torturous difficulties.
@@MurakamiTenshi Yeah, like there was a run that my Scepters was dealing like 10/20 mil per hit and that was like 1/2% of the boss HP.
After that i just got all possible rewards i could (like 2k jades) and got back to DU, at least there im having fun.
worst still, have fun trying to get 80 jades by doing a run with only DoT scepters or only speed scepters. Unless you managed to get 7000 ~8000 str scepters somehow, you can pretty much kiss your run goodbye before even starting your final boss battle...
@Alphanoob99 umm..actually- dot only is not that hard- i think that was my easiest one,actually
@@Slash_to_your_heart Okay, than I did something truly wrong then
Bro SU is not on this theme. If you can't clean it, you SU build is wrong. Of it is right, enemies die. There is no hp inflation problem.
This is just Hoyo. They don't know how to make endgame content, they only know how to do HP Sponges.
Lazy you mean
yeah, everygame of them is like that...
Fr... 💀
But it isn't that bad in Genshin or ZZZ, I am still using 1.X characters in Genshin as a f2p.
@@loreyxillumina raw damage HSR VS Amplified damage with reactions genshin.
Plus HSR is a turn based game vs a genshin you can do so good to maximize damage.
I agree with your general opinion, and its fine to call the tvs good design
but that boss is also the WORST case of hp (and even toughness) inflation in the game
dude has literally 5 million hp
people without acheron/rappa would not be struggling on that boss ANYWHERE NEAR as much if it had like 60% of the hp to make it more in-line with other bosses
and yes I know its shared hp, but thats still 500k hp per enemy per phase
@@zasshu.7240well for aoe units its quite easy tbh. My JY before sunday cleared it in 3 cycles and he is E1S0. But, on a side note, feixiao is too broken so they are balancing the game around that (i think). And then the next big powercreep will come and the same thing again.
They need it though. It's like.. TV Teen Titans or something. lol
@@zasshu.7240 well during the last MoC cycle each of the puppets in past present and eternal show had 576,110 hp per phase so.... its just a case of more enemies share the same hp bar so the boss naturally have more hp to compansate for the fact that there are more target you can hit to damage it, basically it just that the TV is made for AoE compared to the puppets which are made for Blast in reality they have about the same amount of hp but more targets = more overall hp. the tvs even have a bit less hp per target
@@deltaspecies1697I'm fact the true problem isn't the HP inflation (it is a consequence), but the new DPS that are too strong. Passing from 200k of Jingliu to 600~700k of Acheron forced the devs (themselves) to inflating the HP. Increase the bar of dps (damages) so high and frequently is the true cause of this shit.
Ppl complain, but still loves new toys, specially if OP, so we have not way out.
Yes! I’ve upgraded my Feixiao since the last MoC and really improved her stats and.. it’s really discouraging that she is struggling so much more than the last time even though she is much stronger. It does not feel good when your character hits 500k+ and it still feels like they do barely any damage. I’ve was not so bothered by powercreep previously, but such drastic HP inflation will ruin the game if they continue down this road.
Even 400K damage considered small now 😂, 700K is bare minimum nowadays 😢
My acheron hits 100-200k and I'm satisfied
Bruh my jingliu hits 200k or lesser
As soon as I pulled for Acheron, HP inflation happened. I waited for her rerun and got her signature LC cause I saw how everyone was clearing everything with Acheron easily. And now that I have her, suddenly she feels weaker cause of HP inflation ☠️ I hate it here
This is why I can never trust someone when they say a DPS is future proof. Not even Acheron, Firefly, and Feixiao are future proof, and they will be treated the same way characters like Blade and Jingliu are currently being treated within a year or less, trust me
I just got her and was able to 0c side 2 at e0s1
@@Jiii8777 congrats?... and why should i care? ☠️
@@loonastrawberry telling you because she isnt weaker. What you’re experiencing is called a skill issue
So whats the catch? You got carried by 3 e2s1 team mates?@@Jiii8777
When no.1 hoyoshill mr.pokke recommending pulling LC & Eidolons like a default is the sigh the game is getting fucked up
It's not the solution. It's been proven that 1.x characters with eidolons (even E6) will not perform as good as 2.x characters at lower eidolon. All the superbreak characters don't need any eidolons or sig ligtcones to clear. Hoyo should make more enemies that counter break instead of inflating that HP.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek You guys understand that countering break will fuck everyone? not only that you are killing an entire archetype, what do you think if they make a enemy with thorns? the more you attack it the more you get damaged or debuffed, think about it, this types of changes kill not only units but entire mechanics.
I am going to use the game "slay the spire" has a example, theres a boss in there that will stop your turn of playing cards (the game is turn base with cards) if you do too much actions, now put that in his game, each action you do be it attack or not will increase a countdown and when it reach a x amount your characters lose the entire turn and all enemies advance forwards 100%, now if you have a team that deals alot of damage in short burst you will never interact with this mechanic but for FuA you are almost guarantee to have fun with it.
@@Zergling. I know it would screw some players. I myself have a superbreak team, Rappa literally made this MoC a breeze for me, but I can also see how insanely OP these teams are. I'm not saying every enemy should counter break now, hell nah, I intend to pull Fugue soon, but something has to be done to counter it from time to time, so that people won't brute force every endgame mode with it, and the realese of Fugue is very much going to enable that since you'll be able to have 2 superbreak teams now.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarekWe already have enemies like this where they lock their Weakness Gauge and oh boy do they ruin the damage output for Break teams while also not hurting other teams to badly.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek i think the sentiment that they can balance the game by 'nerfing' certain comps with enemy design is sound enough but if thats the case they probably wanna think about what comps the want to raise up as well as which they are nerfing. If they designed a few enemies that were tough for fua superbreak acheron and threw 1.x dps a bone id be fine with that.
Hoyo devs: Our own premium characters are making the game too easy.
Hoyo devs: Let's fix it by HP inflation..
Powercrept characters: What about us?
Hoyo devs: Then we'll give you FREE standard Powercrept characters.
Hoyo: F..K YOU WE REGRET EVER MAKING YOU!!!!!!! YOU ARE SO BAD THAT HELL DOESN'T EVEN WANT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111
"Premium characters" are the true problem of this situation. They increase the bar too high and ti frequently. So HP inflation to balancing
The moment I saw a free Standard 5 Star, I knew it was already shit because all of them have been powercrept from the start. Why would I need them or even gain a duplicate when there's a premium character that can do way better than the Standard 5 Star with eidelons?
@@yoursleepparalysismonster8391 Exactly. Best case scenario of this is Yunli & Clara. As much as folks don’t wanna admit, I’ll be the first to say Yunli is straight up powercreep to Clara, getting free 100% crit dmg on her ult base kit plus having a built in taunt on ult + Sig LC that increases her aggro value. Not to mention, her technique giving her an equivalent of an ult based counter on turn 1 of each fight. This is coming from someone who lost their 50/50 to Yunli & still doesn’t have a Clara yet. Probably just save my ticket for Remembrance path or something, idk
@yoursleepparalysismonster8391
- because someone dislikes some premium version units (Yunli and Sparkle for example)
- Budget version of premium units = saved jades (Himeko/Gepard labelled as Firefly/Aventurine Budget maybe is too much, but mine (Himeko)is strong enough to clear all contents)
Players : We need harder content
Hoyo : Best we can do is increase the hp
Here is the thing, they are doing the same thing in Genshin, but Genshin is also releasing supports that buff the older characters. Honkai needs to do the same or it will kill the game.
Not properly. Genshin good job was to release dps with not a great difference on power: they put a target (7), and they released characters around that target (6-7-8), so they are not forced to HP inflating so frequently or so high. Plus what you said. With Neuvillette and Natlan they increased the target, but the enemies are still weak.
In HSR they release DPS stronger then the previous ones. If the target was level 8 (Jingliu), they increased it to 12, with a too many units at level 13-14. (3 units at lv.14 are "too many")
Huh? They're not doing the same thing in Genshin. Enemies in the endgame modes are easy af, you can literally clear with anything.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarekindeed, old units are still good.
Dude, we want more CC like you and Smacks who call out this HP inflation problem!
Because many people in these communities show hostility and hatred toward those who discuss this problem and often silence them.
Right, theres barely ccs talking about this because their content heavily focus on the character aspect, but not other aspects of combat, enemy design. It's really starting to get dull. These videos that talk about the current state and such are refreshing and entertaining.
Im pretty sure even Acheron and Feixiao will be powercreept if they keep doing this.
100% will be
100%.
Not a matter of if but when.
Give them 6 months or a year
@@N1GHTM4R3W0LF i give them till january
I really hate the mentality these devs have that the only way to make something challenging is making the opponent have asinine amounts of HP to the point doing 5 million damage only drops 2% of the opponents HP!
Before I even watch this I was thinking about this yesterday and the hp inflation is so bad if I’m forced to pull for remembrance in 3.0 I think I’d genuinely rather play genshin and drop this game lol. At least in genshin, wuwa and zzz I can play whatever I want but I’m tired of this star rail bs where your favorite character can be borderline unusable
do you need to 12/36 star all endgame?
The game is clearly encouraging players to pull for all archetypes. If all you want to do is play the same boring hypercarry for years then yeah, the game might not be for you. The future of the game is just players bringing whatever the turbulence says they should bring just like it does in PF.
@@sct77 And people have their preferences. If they like FUA, they’ll play it no matter what. If they don’t care about summon, they won’t get it.
@@jhopan_3271 And that's fine, but let's not pretend like this isn't something basically everyone wants. Almost one wants to constantly play the same few characters and thats it.
@@sct77especially when this is a turn base game,they will want people to get the new units,there is so much they can do after all
Idk how you can downplay character powercreep when we literally have Sunday, Feixiao, and Yunli literally replacing previous characters in their previous teams.
EDIT: Wait what, Break teams sacrifice everything to buff one character like hypercarries? That's one of the few comps where every character does damage or contributes to the burst phase to the point Lingsha is a dps and Rappa needs the rest of the team to break for her to do the most damage.
I'm being annoying but I do agree with most of the video lol
Yep slight correction about that part as well everyone knows that superbreak is the same as followup comps where even supports deal decent damage this is with the exception of bh teams where u run hyper break instead
Superbreak rn is focused on one character but unlike Hypercarry where 3 characters buff one, Superbreak has 1 character heavily buffing the whole team.
Ya i dont really get the insistence to seperate hp inflation from character powercreep when they clearly go hand in hand. Hp inflation pushes old units out of the meta while the new units rotate in with higher dmg multipliers.
If you want old units to stay relevant then hp inflation has to stop but so does powercreep of raw damage multipliers on new units and LCs.
@@ElHarmonyV lol okay fair enough I concede that
I hate HP sponges used for artificial difficulty. Especially as a means to try to sell more powerful characters.
I will see 3.0 and if this becomes too much of a problem where I cannot finish with my characters now, then I will just quite.
I was wondering why my Firefly with 1M hit can barly scratch bosses
@@scenicsudan Same. People say she's op and 99% of the time she is. But she's not a solve-all, even with her break team all geared up.
I cannot finish apocalyptic shadow right now. I literally do not have the characters or jades for it.
If they are going to inflate HP, all elements should have Bleed break mechanic. Wherein it scales off of enemies’ HP.
Oh right, that's why people were 36-starring with Luka in the previous MoC 😂
Its sometimes not about " I don't want to pull this unit's BIS "; often times its "I cannot pull everything single ones of this units' BIS. " Not everyone can pull every single character.
Indeed, but that is why people gotta be smart with investments. Example, topaz is bis for feixiao. Not necessary at all. March 7th or moze is more than enough if you got the Robin. Or jiaoqu for acheron. Yes that is bis for her, but again, not required. People still clear moc12 using pela with her instead.
Just gotta make the important investments, which is almost always your supports. If your supports are strong (Ruan Mei, sparkle, Robin or Sunday,) you will be fine. If you are using an old character like dhil, ok you might wanna consider pulling his sig or an eidolon on his re run. But otherwise, you should be fine. Gotta remember which investments are smart and which are just luxury.
*me fully knowing about the HP inflation and praying that mihoyo will released a HP% damage unit soon becaused the HP% damage mechanic is already in the game.*
Welcome to bleed dot bootyhill and break lowcuh comps xd
Boothill physical dot honest reaction:
saving pulls instead of spending on the newest character to try and clear content and get all the rewards, will just give you more pulls in the long run. Getting someone you "need" now will keep you from getting someone you want in the future
If HP inflation continues in HSR then soon many players will go and play another Gacha.
Some new one, and once that happens, we know that it is over.
I think we just need to Accept Gacha itself as a Failed Industry, and we need to show Hoyo as an Example of it.
@@IdeasAreBulletproofIt’s not though, do you know what “failed industry” means?
He is right though Gacha is a failed industry
@@weirdmilk7017 How? Again, do y’all know what “failed industry” means?
They won't. You underestimate how casual hsr playerbase is.
Most of the players don't even care about endgame content. Most of the players don't even play the game. They just do the story and pull for characters.
This is why I laugh in people's faces when they are always saying to just wait for the rerun of a character in a hoyo game. Hoyoverse will never rerun a character unless they are a support that can be marketed next to a hyper-carry, or a DPS that will be made irrelevent by their replacement a patch or two later.
People waited a very long time for archeon to be rerun and now she's irrelevent because of feixiao. And guess what? When feixiao gets a rerun, it will not be until she gets replaced. That's why you only get 1 chance to roll on hyper carry characters. This is why I advise newer players to only play when a hyper carry banner starts because without a hyper carry, the game gets exponentially harder since you got no supports, no adventurine, sparkle, lingsha, nothing.
One of the most frustrating things is it's not even a case of needing the newest units to keep up, you need the newest unit AND their signature weapons AND e1/e2 to keep up with the content. It honestly doesn't feel worth going for new characters if I can't guarantee at least their weapon to go with them.
The HP inflation is so daft because it's actively making the new player experience worse.
I always say that if you didnt pull for that character the first time, then dont pull on their rerun chances are a better version will come.
W vid, I was always wondering why my acheron wasnt big ballin no more.
ngl she still is, js requires a lil more skill
@ oh I agree she still does her thing, just a tad bit less yanno.
@@SmackSanRB yeah yeah i get you
Remember when Iyo said that there was no powercreep in the game? good times
Boutta delete this video and double down just to keep my word. Lmao
Tbf devs tripled the enemy hp since Iyo said that lol
"Firefly's (or Boothill/Rappa) team works the same way"
Isn't Super Break quite literally being memed as like... HMC/Lingsha showcase team, and that it makes it so that everyone's a DPS?
Yup, Superbreak teams are literally a different breed
Pretty much, and that's honestly the beauty of super break teams. You don't just have one carry doing the heavy-lifting, everyone (except Ruan Mei) is a super break DPS.
I play at least one DU/SU run a day purely for fun, and only play the endgame modes when they’re about to end. So I still pull for my favorite characters so I can play them in SU, and DU auto builds them anyway. The problem is that jades and other in game resources are locked behind the endgame modes, so if I want to pull for the next character I really want, I have to preform well in the endgame. So I’m caught between going for my favorite characters, and pulling whatever cracked new character I need to clear the endgame but don’t really like. Maybe if they added an extra hard endgame mode that only gave an achievement but no rewards, so the super meta players got to have a challenge without the rest of us feeling like we’re missing out. Or scaled enemy power level to your team, similar to how DU automatically scales your characters.
Regarding your problem, it's not worth it.
Let me show you some maths: I believe when getting to lategame, you can get 1200 jades easily (Moc8, PF2, AS2) and struggle for the rest 1200, for every 42 days, or on average 200/week. So 1 year ~ 52 weeks ~ 52 x 200 = 10400 jades = 65 pulls, not even enough to get hard pity a characters.
So the trade off is never worth, however if you play for the challenge then either break f2p or quit.
The solution, should be do at least 1 meta pull (the dps you like the most), so that team make you able to 1) complete content 2) play your favorite team with less anxiety.
I did it last year: my favorite chara is Himeko, my meta pull has been Jingliu. Able to complete the contents. In 2.0 I pulled Boothill (and FF only to be used as omni breaker for Himeko😂). But I'm lucky because Himeko is eating so good that she now is my strongest team.
If you hate all the meta units, is unluck.
Only the last level in endgame modes is actually difficult, so you get plenty of jades anyway tbh.
It's FUA.
Firefly gets absolutely cucked by an enemy locking their toughness bar, Firefly mains will tell you themselves how bad to play she feels in this scenario. She's braindead easy to pilot, but she isn't the issue.
FUA cheats the entire action economy of the game as their core mechanic. The archetype's so over-supported it's ridiculous, it's impossible to reliably mitigate for unlike other comps because the archetype has an option for everything, and their Sustain option basically makes most other Sustain options that aren't Huohuo irrelevant.
Firefly’s team is definitely not hyper carry. It’s a team designed to have everyone contributing to breaking, contributing to damage, extending breaks to do more super break, Mei does damage everytime someone breaks, Lingsha is perfectly tuned to be FFs sustain and sometimes contributes just as much damage. That is absolutely a cohesive team that allows everyone to contribute and no one just sacrifices their turn to let Firefly do more damage.
Omg dude, this NEEDS to be talked about more. I just played it and yeah, the hard statistics showing the huge incline in HP pools of these enemies is insane. If this is their smooth brain solution for difficulty, then where are the buffs for older characters? Enemies get buffed, but our characters' DPS stays the same... lol cool hoyoverse.
Iyo, character powercreep IS the same as HP inflation powercreep. Devs make enemies tougher, to provide incentive in pulling the new characters that have similarly grown stronger in comparison to older characters.
If characters weren't made stronger by the patch, devs couldn't justify making enemy HP double or triple their current value, because eventually nobody could even clear the content. Don't know where you get the notion that they are separate issues.
EXACTLY! Is what I'm saying everyday.
The true culprit are the new characters that does x4 dmg of the previous one. Is obviously that if Jingliu did 200k, and now Acheron does 700k, they have to inflating HP
Remember when people thought that having powercreep in HSR will make the game exciting because it will push the game to greater heights "compared to genshin"? Well whatever happened to them lmaoo
On the FuA and Acheron part:
You sorta nailed it. I like the Fua and DoT teams BECAUSE all of the members are characters I like a lot. (Kafka, Swan, Mei & Fei, Robin, Topaz, HIMventurine) so them fitting in a team is perfect for me. I REALLY don't like anyone who Acheron wants (i hate using Pela, don't care for the fox guy nor did i have the pulls as f2p, and using swan without kafka for Acheron seems weird) therefore using her teams feels scuffed for me, not to mention the scummy way the E2 is handled, so I just usually run Acheron in my hyperinvested DoT team because they clear all the same.
Now Hoyo is pushing the break archetype, with carries that I REALLY do not care for so it feels bitter.
Also, they handle metas terribly. When it's X-meta, they hamfist X's mechanics and buffs into all endgame modes so you are forced to utilize it, otherwise good luck clearing as a f2p bucko'.
They ruining the game.
as someone who invested a lot into nihility + DOT teams in my account, i'm just rlly sad to see my fav characters that used to be able to clear everything rather easily flat out fail to do so in the new endgame... plus seeing how they're again delving into hypercarry meta again, i doubt DOT will get any love anytime soon 😿 at least jingliu may rise up again with sunday (an unit i didnt even wanna pull for in the first place but I have a feeling he will be the BiS support for a lot of remembrance characters).
I used my DOT team in this MOC but a complete premium dot team with S1 RM and E1 HuoHuo still took 4 cicles to kill that thing... Every attack felt like I was just tickling svarog
jl will be better but not enough, she just doesnt have enough damage and you need to invest so much to make her work
If they were gonna do hp sponges why not buffing older character for half-annually reruns? Also DPS powercreep is a thing and will be. But what if the buffer/sustains, which is the core of team build, becomes obsolete as well? I dread the future where Ruan Mei, Robin, and Sunday becomes unusable 😭
now why would they do that?
They won't because hoyo doesn't care it doesn't hurt them unless the CN community says anything nothing will matter
hoyo only cares about the CN community
@ Sad but true 😔
imagine how many content creators and players commenting against this absurd hp inflation and rapid powercreep but still hoyo doesnt care
no because for one most aren't big creators and two none are CN creators, the CN community is all that matters the rest of us don't matter to them.
hoyo is a CN company all they care about is CN
It already did after Acheron's arrival. "We have to balance for those with Acheron E6". Yeah? At least BUFF THE OTHER CHARACTERS TOO.
I miss using Kafka, or Destruction Trailblazer.
I took a break and returned a year later, and I noticed I'm struggling while using the same team. Not really struggling, but I'm just not killing things as fast as I used to.
So, here's a good example of HP inflation, Aventurine MoC 12 during September 2 -> October 10 MoC, had 1,089,372 x 2 HP; Aventurine MoC 11 during the latest MoC had 1,004,919 x 2 HP.
The current MoC 11 is almost the equivalent of MoC 12 from 2 months ago! That's how bad this HP inflation is! Svarog isn't the best example because the poor guy wasn't in MoC 12 before this.
Also, I'm curious how much the HP will increase in 2.7? 3.0? My ass struggling with 7-8 cycling MoC 12 might end up at 35/36 stars in the future if I don't pull new characters, especially DPS characters... Hope The Herta is up to par or else I'm cooked!
Sadly this is just how Hoyo makes endgame content, just HP pools so large you can't properly deal with them without the Banner Character and their Sig equiqment.
The fact that their bad design practices have bled into the main story enough that they decided it was better to add and easy mode honestly says everything for me. This game always needed interesting mechanics to stay fresh, never enemies that delete teams with no aoe debuff removal, or infinite shield looping, or healing made to outpace the heat death of the universe. And still they build it as if they need to keep upping the challenge of the game. Nothing is challenging about the game punishing me for not rolling on a character who cost $300 who went away months ago.
I think a point you miss is that the reason that they can make HP inflation like this is so that they can sell better and better characters, it's like the inflation death loop from real life economics.
Yeah we get that is the point, but people are getting in general burned out of that.
I've been clearing all endgame modes with E0S1 Yunli/E0S0 Topaz/E1S1 Robin/E0S0 HuoHuo and E0S1 Acheron/E0S1 Swan/E0S0 Kafka/E4 Gallagher but I can feel its getting harder and harder, especially because I don't play suberbreak and Fei Xiao.
But as long as I can clear without the most meta teams I won't complain too much
memory of chaos is easy and fine. the problem is sim uni where the fights take 15 minutes cus the enemy has 500 million hp.
Do you mean Unknowable Domain? I mean that's the thing, the Scepters are supposed to do all the damage for you. That's what this mode is all about...
When my premium Break team (Firefly, Lingsha, Ruan Mei and HMC) took an eternity to kill the Banana group, not gonna lie. I was a bit puzzled 😶
Tbf that boss is basically a Rappa check 😭
I pulled for Rappa and they were literally so easy to me 😅
That floor made me pull up my break Himeko and cleared it faster than my FF.
That boss is for AOE units
It's honestly not too bad for Firefly premium team, you just gotta be smart. Save Lingsha's ult for the second wave, make sure the TVs are happy as long as they aren't locked yet, and sometimes you gotta let one of the TVs be unbroken to give you energy/SP/action advance.
Horizontal investment is more beneficial to a player that is struggling than vertical investment.
You can clear any and all content with E0 characters, but you'll have a much harder time clearing content if you're missing certain characters. Invest in characters; not eidolons! If you're not having any issue then pull for whoever you want, and if you're into 0 cycles then sure, invest in some eidolons.
He is a whale and pulls pretty much all characters with their Sigs (+ Eidolons) so he doesn't know what he's talking about. You're completely right; unless you're spending significant amount of money into the game, vertical investment is a no go. Just keep pulling for the newer units @E0S0 (forming synergistic teams, obviously) and it's easy peasy. Maybe you can pull a couple of the most broken Eidolons FOR SUPPORTS (this is Key) like Ruan Mei or Robin E1 if you really want to min-max.
@AngelOnerom It's something I encounter often; someone struggling with certain content and I asked them what teams they're using, their teams are a bad match-up but they're the only teams they have _(like someone I know who went heavy into Acheron and her team only to have two bosses with 40% Lightning Resistance.)_
Vertical investment doesn't = whale out on a single thing. It means invest (smartly) in the 1-2 teams you are building so they can clear everything in that moment, then move on to the next. A player struggling in this game is not due to hori vs vert investment at a base level. Each player's problem is different and, to be honest based on the data we already have from HoyoLabs, Prydwen, etc. the newer players have some of the strongest options in the game for free.
March 8th is a multifaceted DPS. Gallagher is their best F2P healer. Ratio is Ratio. Clara & Himeko have had huge come ups since their release, & you're guaranteed at least 3 5-stars before the end of Belebog. Ima keep it a buck, some players just make bad decisions early on (probably cause they don't know any better), then blame it on the game. We've all been there before.
@Iyoverse yeah, some players make bad choices, and Relic investment is the usual culprit, but as a general rule you're better to get characters over eidolons - especially if you're F2P as it will be tough enough to even build out some of these teams in the first place.
Most of my friends quit because they felt like the game forced them to play characters they didn't like months after spending money on units that no longer felt strong. Hell, I barely play nowdays too and will probably quit if my e2 acheron and feixiao fall off after 3.0 . Not rewarding this practice anymore, hsr didn't give us a chance to show our support for the game, they just kept ruining our units
Hp Inflation purely to stop 0 cycles is wild. Like, I don't even engage with end game content, but if I did, I'd be pissed
They would have to make enemies that are fully resistant to being broken, since superbreak and characters that benefit from it like Firefly, Boothill and Rappa are more than likely the reason for the HP inflation. It would screw the people that invested in break teams though, but we definitely need more enemies that counter that.
My E0 S1 70CR/200CD Acheron took 7 cycles to clear the Svarog
me: man! I'm scared, my favorite characters Acheron and Firefly are becoming useless
Seele, Blade, JingLiu, JinYuan, DIL mains: first time?
dot team 4 cycles
With Acheron you're supposed to go for TV's
@@ShockSmile there probably is a problem on your supports cause my E0S1 64/245 Acheron only took 4 cycles on auto to clear svarog. My FF took 5 cycle to clear the TV but when i try it again with super break himeko i did it on 4 cycles.
@@darkhime7005 if you are asking if i have Jiaoqiu, i don't. i used Pela and SW
My FF also took 5 cycles
@@ShockSmile hmm.. Have you tried using lil gui instead of sw?
Again a very simple solution is just buff the multipliers on older units so they can at least compete with newer units. It is crazy that Feixiao has a 700% ultimate and Seele a character with the same path has only a 400% ult. If Hoyo simply buffs her numbers to say 600%-650% that at least makes Seele viable in newer content.
There's a video out there discussing how Hoyo can do this & that is follow something similar to FGO. FGO has a system in place where the devs can introduce buffs to older or 'weaker' servants either by doing a battle quest or a story quest to unlock the buffs. These quests often adds lore or flavor texts to the buffed servant. Hoyo can easily introduce something similar into the companion missions.
"B-B-But then people won't pull for new characters and sales will go down"
Tbf Seele can get her ultimate up faster than Feixiao (especially in PF) and her skills do way more in the right team setup. Seele teams can also stack Def shred whereas Feixiao's team has access to none.
Feixiao's obviously still a lot stronger than Seele (outside of PF at least), but raw multipliers can be very misleading.
Doesnt manter of they increase the numbers of old characters, if they keep increasing the HP off the enemies we will end up in the same situation.
Today: My unit deals 700k damage -> boss have 1.5 mil HP
Tomorrow: My unit deals 1.5 mil damage -> boss have 3 mil HP.
In the end, if they keep doing the HP inflaction it would not matter if they buff old characters, nothing would have changed.
@@gabrielcruz8339 Just giving an option to at least make older characters viable in newer content instead of just being bench warmers after spending a X amount of money on them. Like it may not matter to casual players but it would really suck that someone pulled a e6S5 older character only for them to be unusable in future content. Buffing their numbers slightly can at least have them be usable to some extent. Increasing their lifespan so to speak.
@@izumolee6714 Yeah i know i, and i would love if that was the case, you see im a new player, and i loved Jingliu, so i will be pulling for her next rerun, so having her being buffed and being entrusting to use would be a amazing, but it doent matter, if Hoyo keeps increasing the mobs HP that Jingliu would end up in the same situation: not dealing enough damage becuse the boss have too much HP.
Its a endless cicle. At least until Hoyo breaks it, what i dont see they doing.
Ultimately the biggest problem is for new players because of how they have us acquire characters. What you said about vertical investment in the game is kinda key every new 5 star you get on a team is a pretty significant increase.
The problem with this is that you have to very intentionally build an archetype potentially months before it becomes top tier since you can only get characters from their limited banner. In most other gachas you have at least the ability to get these older characters that work well with the latest and greatest but in star rail you just cant do that.
Ultimately what matters most is synergy it doesnt really matter if you have feixiao if you dont have robin and you really want adventurine and topaz with topaz being the most replacable. But for new players it could take a very long time to get these archetypes working and they will be powercrept and not worth the investment by that time.
With how the games core functions work day 1 players shouldnt struggle in the MOC ever because if day 1 players are struggling in a game where the age of your account is nearly as important as how mucch money you put in then how are new players ever supposed to be able to clear. Hopefully theyve just been inflating hp to stop zero cycles and we will level off for a while without any more severe hp inflation.
As a side note the way cycles work in the MOC also just sucks.
Hoyo: WOW, we need to stop HP inflation
Another Hoyo: Next patch we will lower the boss HP, but of course will double the defense, make the buff less impactful, double the attack, double the res and everything. As long as players don't realize, it will be good.
Also its not to prevent 0 cycle, its so that the content doesn't feel braindead with new units. Since firefly release, she has constantly been most use unit in both MoC and Apoc. Regardless of what the ememy gimmick, she breaks it so fast that it particularly dont matter so they are going to make boss harder eventually, its basic design logic.
Like taking fgo example, when merlin got released and enabled dps to just nuke high hp in single turn, they introduced break bar to prevent that. When skadi released snd she just became defacto farming support, they introduced unit irregular enemy count farming. When castoria released and made gsme completely brain dead, they have been creating Challenge quest with overtuned gimmicks to at least make players feel somewhat challenged but still failing since they have to keep in account for f2p setup which at that point wouldn't be able to do anything. They released Oberon to make character be able to do absolute nuclear damage for a turn so they created 90++ farming nodes to match his power level.
Basically its an after effect of units like an acheron and firefly who just became not only versatile like what DoT was supposed to be but excel so far ahead in damage number that every new dps need to compete with them and if we get new units who can generate potentially higher number like Yunli or Rappa, they are still considered skip material by community cuz they arent as universal as those two or Feixiao
dang, this is honkai impact 3rd all over again doesnt it? Make new tanky enemies, create “arguably” long stretch ass story to introduce (promote) new char (yea i am looking at you Rappa). And endgame cattered to new char while “screwing” old damage dealer.
In Hi3 its at least easier to obtain meta characters and most of their gear in general and its only 1 mode they even matter.
this is the first time I can't full star MOC :( I'm done with chasing meta I'll just do what I can pull who I like and done.
I couldn't get through Hoolay on floor 12 the last time (Fuxuan couldn't keep up). But this one was a breeze to me, probably thanks to Rappa.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek fu against hoolay is such a masochist move xD that guy attacks soo fast fu can't keep up. That's why i use houhou instead at least she can outheal hoolay attacks.
It's been that way for a while with me. Firefly was the first time I got remotely close, but I still can't get the last 2...
HP inflation is the only way they can provide any form of difficulty, because the majority of the playerbase are absolutely braindead. Look at the number of people who struggled with boss Aventurine mechanics, enough to necessitate a flat out removal from various modes.
I was unaware people couldn't figure that out.. but I doubt it..
The entire point is to sell new characters and the rest of us mean nothing to hoyo becuase hoyo is chinese and the CN playerbase is likely their main funder and all that matters.
@@yulfine1688 Go watch Box2's video(Xm06UkLMiJQ) from 5 months ago for a small taste of how much skill issue the community has. If you can clear moc/pf/shadow you're literally in the top percentile.
"Is not enough" - kendrick
Pulling for Fugue because I love Tingyun but after that I have no interest in the new summon meta
I just want to play what I want to play but powercreep meta just feels like a chore and the story feels like a chore to get through too
Finally people are waking up of this dream (no pun intended) of thinking HSR is the perfect game
The story recently is so ass so so so much yapping god damn
on one hand i do wanna say vertical is best but e2 sparkle aint even enough to be on the level of sunday..
Also the HSR devs back themselves into a corner with Firefly who could clear any enemy due to weakness implant, so in order to encourage sales they could either bloat the enemies HP where firefly become ineffective or stack up the break effect bar which they have already done with Hoolay.
They simply have to make more enemies that counter break.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek which then makes break useless including all those chars, they dug their own hole because they're stupid and because they don't care about anyone but the CN community, it matters little how much we complain or what we do.
Hoyo doesn't change anything until the CN community tells them to.
@@yulfine1688 No, it would limit the usage of superbreak teams in certain scenarios, which would in turn stop and reverse the HP inflation of enemies. Saying "because they're stupid" makes you look like you're having a child's temper tantrum. Don't do that if you're trying to make a point.
Th hp inflation is crazy but i don't strugle with the memori of chaos
It's really just on floor 11 and 12. A couple of bosses steal a team member to lease the output of your team. Bottom line is they will do many things to keep a challenge to veterans, hp is one of them. It's inevitable. What I wish would happen is when mechanics are on the top of the screen it lasted longer so I can grasp the mechanics. Eventually they will reduce that time too lol
I'm so on board with this as in with your take. Because the way you do power creep or challenge correctly is new and fun mechanics. HP inflation is the most boring and annoying way to scale content.
I have a Jingliu with herta cone
2.6k attack base with newest set jingliu loves alongside
97% crit rate during skill with 210% critdmg alongside bronya at E2 and she couldn't even do MOC properly so i had to resort to superbreak
Here is my take on this, we will see a "max hp% dot damage" buffer and he/she will "make dot great again" XD
lmao just looking at the first wave of second half on floor twelve for the current moc is crazy each one of the puppet bosses have close to 800k health meanwhile the Svarog of the past barely has more then that 😭 health power creep go crazyyyyy
14:53 I think this the best way to make the endgame difficult. Just combine the different bosses that synergies each other. Bronya and the DoT puppet is a strong combo.
Im gonna be so honest hearing that talk at the beginning as a DoT enjoyer had me giving bombastic side eye. Because that shit does not apply at this point. Kafka can't hold that team together for much longer lmao
I felt the HP inflation happened early on since, patch 2.0.
It started hard with MoC11 and 12
it started even earlier in 1.X
@@dante19890 Of course but it's normal. In 1.0 you have nothing. No leveled units, no weapons, trash relics ect. So changes are normal here and understandable.
We had first HUGE hp inflation with MoC11 and 12.
With Acheron+ it was only worse and worse with every patch. It's a Pay2Win game now. Or you need to be a meta slave if you want to be a F2P and get every jade. Current state of the game is not ok.
Everyday i think about the sweaty gamers that cried about how easy MoC is and because of that Hoyo added stage 11 and 12. Now i just open MoC to clear stage 10, try 11 and if i pass, try 12, if i dont i close the game and play other games. im not about this stress.
i didnt have any trouble with the recent memory of chaos using follow up but I cannot for the life of me get the last 2 stars on pure fiction.
what teams are you using?
I'm in a similar situation. Managed to get 36 stars in MoC (Rappa on one side, and Feixiao on other side), but for some reason the current pure fiction is quite tough. Can only get one star in the 4th level of PF,
@@boiledliddo feixiao meta team and tried both firefly meta team and herta meta team. my feixioa meta team relics are great but the others could use a little improving but theyre still decent.
Mihoyo is based in China and China has laws to regulate gatcha games. One of these laws is that they cannot nerf a character post release. They did try that for both Yae Miko and Neuvilette in Genshin but had to revert the changes back to pre nerf as less than 12 hours after the nerf a lawsuite was filed against them. Gatcha games needs to find ways to sell newer characters and if there was never any power creep how do they entice that? If your 700k hit one shots an enemy still a new characer doing 2 mill hit wont feel any different. If they increase the HP to 1.6 mill then you need to 3 shot with the 700k and 1 shot with the 2 mill so now the 2 mill character is more appealing to use. They can't nerf a character in the terms of balance because companies will nerf characters to the point of being useless so newer characters sell better and thats what the law in china is for.
The company controls the level of power creep as it controls the power gap for the new characters and the pressure on older comps. Power creep is in Genshin too but it has been a lot slower and I would like to see some harder content so my characters can feel like they can actually get a work out for a change.
When you realize that mihoyo is a scumbag company that just wants your money by any means necessary. Whether its hiring people to make fake social media accounts telling you that every character is a must pull to having accelerated power creep.
Simps complain about it, but they easily fall in love for characters (80% OP dps that are actively contributing to the HP infliction), and meta players just look dps numbers, and if are OP, they become excited.
No way. The only hope is if Hoyo decided to not increasing so much the difference between 2.x dps and 3.x dps
that is any gacha company... its not new to anyone, except plenty of gacha companies buffer and nerf units and edit modes etc...
hoyo is just stupid and they don't care about most of the playerbase because they are not chinese, the CN playerbase likely provides almost all of their funding I can promise that
its shocking that so many arent aware that gacha games are predatory
Well for me the only change is that instead of a 0 Cycle I'm doing a 1 Cycle...
It is an interesting thoery if the whole inflation stuff is specifically to target 0 cycles. But even still, it shouldn't be done to make us pull the newer character and not use the older ones or the ones we like
I’m still able to clear all of the modes with autobattle as an express pass only spender so it’s not that big of a deal for me yet
This video feels like the most 'Soul of an Artist was right and I was wrong' you'll ever give to him😂
Soul knows I won't admit that to him. LMFAO I'll purposely play Devil's Advocate.
Hi, these are my thoughts on the video :)
Powercreep is the direct cause of hp inflation, so they are equally detrimental to the game as they have the same effect on the game. As you said, they increase hp to make the end game modes hard, because if you took feixiao against the 800k hp svarog from before it's dead instantly.
Increasing the hp of new bosses shouldn't be given an exception just because they are well designed; they are more difficult through design AND hp inflation, they quite literally have the same hp as svarog + elite, so saying they're more difficult than old bosses through design is partially true but also the hp. Svarog is a damage check, the banatvs are a dmg check that requires thinking, but both end with the same issue of the older weaker teams clearing much slower than they used to. If the banatvs stayed the same hp, older characters would have a chance to 0 cycle (but it'd be free for new chars).
Ofc both power creep and hp inflation work together to form a hollow purple aimed at old charcaters but it is what it is.
Now less related to the main point of the video, the marionettes and the banatv are good boss design when not faced by firefly/rappa respectively. The marionettes basically don't get to move except for the one big attack as firefly insta breaks, and the banatv is all turned happy or breakable by rappa/her team. Fighting them without those 2 is fun and lets you engage with the mechanics.
Everyone out here talkin about how it's so hard to zero cycle MoC 12 and I'm struggling to do it in 11 just trying to get that last damn star.
They're gonna keep making it harder and harder to prevent the zero cycling meta, and the only ones losing are the people just barely clearing each cycle. This ish has to stop man.
I don’t really give a shit about the hp enemies get, I can wait 5 years to kill a boss, my main problem is the enemies damage, I can’t get past certain parts of simulated universe extensions like the swarm because the enemies that are usually weak as hell can deplete half of my fu Xuans health even while her damage reduction field is active, so I gotta run yunli, gepard, luocha, and fu xuan as a team because if not my hp leaves like my dad did only in half the time, unless there is something I’m missing I’d say that the enemies damage is the real problem
You might be okay with not being able to kill a boss for 5 years because of HP inflation in your extreme example. But I highly doubt the majority of players feel the same. And the majority opinion is what matters for the health of online games.
Its actually....sad, how the biggest solution to a problem is:
Increase HP of monsters by 1.5Million.
I dont know if it was always like this but I noticed that the enemies has more turns than usual.
I haven't watched the video, but HP inflation is so evident if you do an old characters ascension mats. Just got aventurine from his rerun, and the enemy required for it had like max 200k hp compared to a newer one.
People already have setups dropping half a mil damage+. Why are we acting like HP "bloat" or "powercreep" is a problem when it's the foundation of EVERY VIDEO GAME EVER.
Maybe bexause it invalidates older chatacters you pulled for, powercreep would be okay if they buffed older characters but when its to the point when it gets significantly harder to beat content and you need to pull the newest character thats when it's bad
@@IzuruKamakura-e6v So once again every single game ever. In fact, the sign of a GOOD game since it gives purpose to the newer characters.
You'd otherwise bitch because nobody your pulling for is good.
@@fettel1988 bullshit. u can still use starter characters to complete abyss in genshin but in star rail even my fully build kafka team can't even clear floor 11. star rail is fucking trash. All my friends stopped playing star rail cuz of this bullshit
@kcjpunk that's skill issue. Literally. I have a kafka Sampo team. The only invested character is my Ruan Mei at e1 s1, and it beat moc 12. 5 cycles.
You are playing old non meta buddy. Don't expect a walk in the park. Hell, I beat floor 11 (many consider it harder than 12 this cycle) with my qinque. Sit there and tell me qinque is meta, I dare you. Lmao, but I have a nice sparkle e0 s0 to help.
Btw, my clara and himeko still beats pf, as well as herta being free and tier 0. Hmc and march 7 are free and meta. Gallagher is a 4 star who is stronger than 5 star luocha. Etc. If you want to play older stuff, play better and do smart investments. That, or pick up meta and click auto battle. Just keeping it real
I completely agree Iyo, I love my characters and powercreep making them invalid is just heartbreaking.
When Acheron first came out, I ended up getting her very early at 10 pity when pulling for some Eidolons I wanted. Even though I liked her, I did not plan to have her given that I wanted Aventurine more given that I lacked sustains. Still, damage was done, I lost my guaranteed on her so I decided to build her. I with a level 72 E0S0 Acheron, a very rushed E4 Pela, a neglected E0S0 Silverwolf and FireMC was destroying all game modes at the time. Little to say, she was busted as hell. However, now I managed to acquire her lightcone and build her up properly after months, made a gamble that paid off by getting an E0S1 Aventurine with 15 pulls in his first patch, getting an E6 Pela that I finally built properly, and doing some maintenance on my Silverwolf, one might think this team is extremely busted, which it is, however, despite doing more damage than ever before, it barely feels any different from my original half-assed team.
The funniest thing - that even Genshin currently is getting out of hand.. Powercreep for the last 3 months is just awful
Are you kidding? Genshin is so easy you can literally clear abyss with anything, not to mention effing Imaginarium Theater... No but seriously, Abyss is getting easier with every version.
yeah, fortunetly genshin endgame doesn't inflate hp nearly as much
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek it is gonna change after 5.3 as I said, the difficulty of the abyss and theater will increase just due to a release of one new character…
@@skrypnykk.770 We already have OP characters like Neuvilette, Arlecchino, Alhaitham, Nauvia, Mualani, Furina. They all make Abyss a breeze. What makes you think Mavuika's release is going to change anything when the difficulty is consistently dropping not increasing?
@ because Mavuika is basically 2x stronger than each of characters you wrote above, abyss will be made optimized for her, and obviously way harder for older characters