Harley-Davidson Dealers Will Use This Trick and Tactic.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2023
- Harley-Davidson Dealers Will Use This Trick and Tactic
Let me say I love Harley-Davidson motorcycles. I have owned a few and always enjoy riding them. This video poses a very important question that all Harley-Davidson riders need to consider. I know it is a little long, but I assure you it is not long-winded. Sit back, open your mind, and then give me your thoughts in the comments below.
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I walked away from a Pan America due to a $4k markup and they wouldn’t give me an OTD price unless I was buying. I moved on and started shopping other premium brands. Ever dealer gave me an OTD price within 5 minutes and most were discounted. Brand loyalty means nothing when they want to screw you over. I could care less if Harley or it’s dealers go under.
Right, we need to know what they want. I hate when they start the numbers game, and you are sitting there for hours. I think they are just waiting for us to give up and say, YES! Ride Safe
Strange, I was a HD dealer that had four Pan America's in stock, they would have jump to sell my anyone of them at sticker's price. Of course there was taxes, and their registration and dealer prep fees, the latter two are negotiable.
Agreed let the stealerships go under.
5 dealers in my area and not one of 'em would give me an otd price. Walked on a Fat Boy at a 6k mark up after I did finally give in and walk into the showroom.
I agree, and I ride a HD
“You can walk away from a bad deal at any time - I did it with my wife” 😆
You are correct. I didn't walk I ran. Ride Safe
😂😂😂👍👍
Hehehehehe ... 😝😝too funny ...
On her birthday...
Nice
The very first business lesson I ever learned was when I went with my father to a Massey Ferguson tractor dealer in North Wales in around 1967/8. The memory is of a man in a suit calling after us, calling my dad’s name, imploring him to come back - as we exited the showroom’s glass doors.
The value of being prepared to walk away from the first, second or even the third offer, was instilled in me. As a direct consequence of that very very valuable lesson, I have always chased the sources offering the lowest price, but also always leaving a decent profit for the seller, so that he will always be glad to see me again. Elementary.
In business we always make our first profits at the buying stage. That gives us the opportunity to have flexibility in our sales pricing. It’s a very simple principle, but it works.
A situation where dealers are feel the right or need be ripping off their customers, suggests that THEIR relationship with THEIR suppliers could be behind their behaviour, possibly due to it being in some way deficient.
And when I look at the way HD is, and has been run for decades, I’m not at all surprised.
Very good points. I always felt HD should have been the owner of the stores. This way, they can sell all the bikes from the MSRP they post on their site. Ride Safe
I have had very similar dealer experiences and it’s gotten worse lately. I have heard and seen everything including over msrp, extra fees, ridiculously low trade values, and sales pressure and games. I am a cash buyer and they try and push insane financing. I’ve walked out many times and decided I will never buy from another dealer. I get the impression the motor company knows exactly what is going on at the dealership level and couldn’t care less. Warranty work is a joke too.
I feel you are on task with your thoughts. Ride Safe
Agreed. The two dealerships near me are exactly that way. Their parts and service departments are the worst I've ever dealt with, and I'm an auto mechanic with 34 years of professional experience so I know bad service when I see it.
I'm an auto mechanic in Pennsylvania.. I own 2 dynas.. Harley dealer in my area is now a part of like 22 dealer private equity ownership group.. Service dept..(which I have no need for) is a mess from the tech I know who used to work there.. The whole no price tags on bikes to the 5 hour process to actually get a price n buy a bike is ridiculous...
Yeah. I think the Company and Dealership run it like the same way.
Bean counters, as it is all numbers and bullshit. I have not purchased new for years and i don't buy 2nd hand through dealers.
I find the general public are far more honest.
Take their financing if it gets you a better price, then pay the loan off immediately. They’ll get a nice little chargeback from the lender.
I had a salesman at a Harley dealership tell me my "legs were too small" for a certain model, so I walked over and sat on the bike, perfect fit. I wanted to tell him his brain was too small but instead I blueballed him for three hours, past close, and then walked out: no sale and laughed at him.
That was the way to handle that. Ride Safe
I agree 100% on walking away from dealers without pricing on their bikes. I have 4 dealers within an hour ride from me. Only 1 has all bikes marked. Both new and used. Guess who has my business. 2 bikes over the past 2 years and get treated like family. No pressure whatsoever. M&S HD of Chambersburg PA is the best dealer I have experienced in 50 years of riding
Well, I live in Pa, so I will look them up. Thanks for sharing the information. Ride Safe
I am seeing this trend more and more of no price tags on the bikes. I agree, walk out!
Yep, looked at new bikes in Langhorne, Pa., not a single price tag on any of them. Bye.
Laidlaws is the only dealership near me with listed prices.
I was supposed to go to Frederick Harley today to test ride a few but it's not happening because of the rain. Maybe it's a sign and I should go to M&S instead..?
It really sucks! I’ve been to two dealers trying to buy a bike. Neither would even tell me what the bike I wanted cost!! They would only tell me to come sit in the office and see what we could work out. I specifically asked what the cost of the bike was and they refused to tell me!! It’s like dealing with a shady used car dealer! I then went to an Indian shop and every single bike had a price tag on it! Harley is really starting to suck a$$!
I feel that Harley needs to just tell their dealers to clearly mark the prices on the bikes. But I know a lot of people who walk in and pay whatever is asked of them. Ride Safe
The more I hear about Harley-Davidson dealers, the more I’m glad I bought my Triumph Bonneville T 100 new in 2007 and kept it. I paid it off, the insurance is low ($140 per year) and I do 80% of the maintenance myself. You can’t beat paid off, reliable, oil tight and easy on the wallet.
Sounds like you have a fantastic motorcycle. I will have to look into this brand. Ride Safe
Harley’s are very reliable too and have been for many years. Plus, Harley is the most coveted motorcycle brand out there.
2012 Triumph Speedmaster here. Love it!
Alot better off buying a triumph nice bike
@@JA-zh5xi Coveted by every newbie middle aged rider thats first bike is a Harley because they think it makes them an instant biker /hells angels wannabe by default. Enter stage center: Balding squids that duck walk their bikes at speeds under ten mph while revving the crap out of it.
I experienced this twenty years ago when they tried a 30% markup for "prep". I walked away, bought an old BMW and gave it a frame off restoration. I see no point in encouraging such behavior.
Especially in doing research, Harley reimburses the dealers for prep. That is called double dipping. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Just keeping the rubber side down :P
Boycott Harley. Good man. There’s always used. I got a cb500 for touring, simple and cheap. And a triumph street triple for riding daily. Both like new and costs less than a used a Harley. I also do most of my own work and save lots of money. The Triumph is a little more pricey for insurance but for now I really enjoy it. I also got a used mini bike that is super cheap. I was on my mini bike when I stopped to help an old guy on a fully dressed Harley bagger. It looked like the shifter bar came unbolted or loose. Another full dress Harley stopped and I looked pretty hilarious between those. But, at least I stopped. The day I broke down, not one person stopped. About 5 hours. I was disappointed in humanity.
@HarleyDayRider That's a fact. They get paid to do a PDI by the manufacturer.
I quit Harley back in 08 after “trying” to buy a new bike, and trade in my 03 RK custom (which I purchased new from them) after finding out the dealer had changed dramatically. They treated my low mile excellent condition trade in like I just dug it out of the boneyard, trying to question the salesman was like watching someone in front of a congressional committee. Between my trade, and the price of the new one, I was paying nearly MSRP. The next closest dealer was over 100mi away. I bought a very nice Japanese cruiser, paid far less, got a great deal on my trade in, and never looked back.
You have to go for the deal and not the brand. We ride and buy what we want because it makes us happy. Glad you found what you were looking for. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider exactly! Couldn’t have said it better.
My favorite bike is a 2008 Harley Vrod. But I’ll never buy new at a dealer again. Between markup and then instant deprecation after you ride off, it just isn’t worth it or the dealer headache.
Just bought my Harley Icon from Liberty HD in NJ and they couldn’t have been any nicer, no tricks or hidden fees, msrp, it was painless, very appreciative … I hear what your saying about dealerships, in general, as each is different. Happy I found the bike I wanted and the great team, thankful.
I wish I could make it to your dealer. It sounds like you got a great deal. Ride Safe
The worst thing about H-D is the dealership experience. I now refuse to have anything to do with their dealerships. I strictly buy used privately or from generic dealerships. And save a lot of money, to boot.
I have seen a few independent shops around here selling used Harley's, and their prices are marked. Ride Safe
What is happening in the west coast and Texas where I live a couple big conglomerates are buying up the dealerships and basically fixing prices. They will own the majority of dealerships in a lucrative area and unless you are willing to go outside your area they sell the bikes for the same price.
I have a friend that has sold HD bikes for over 20 years. This is what he related to me. Some ( if not the majority ) of dealers do not hire professional sales people but a position called a “ fit specialist “ they are basically greeters and follow a formula to get you on a bike and then turn you over to the sales manger to close you on a bike. The fit specialist may have been selling computers at Best Buy last week.
I fear if the demise of the truly independent dealership continues it will be like buying a car or truck which can be a miserable experience.
Yes, we hate to buy anything new these days. It should be a special time of your life to buy something new. Ride Safe
Wow. Interesting. I just don't get why dealers want to alienate people. HD should step in, but they will tell you dealers are independent contractors..I've always bought from private sellers, and service them at independent custom shops when i need too
The dealerships around me are selling some stuff at MSRP, but HD jacked up the prices 25% or so in the last couple years and introduced an additional fee. Wanted $19,500 OTD for a soft tail standard - which seemed grossly overpriced for what it was. Maybe at $15,000.
1- I have never been in an HD dealer that sold bikes at MSRP without some sort of hidden charges. Let me know where I can find one.
2- Never EVER buy an extended warranty.
3- Original warrantees are governed by federal law, not the manufacturer or dealer.
I had a local dealer tell me the same number more than a year ago. I don't pay dealer, and I damn sure don't pay markup.
Then don't buy it.
Here is what you are missing: "Value" has no meaning other than what people will pay for a thing. There are no other formulas to determine what the "value" of a thing is. The value of your home is not just a sum total of the price of the bricks and sticks, it is the market price that someone else will pay if you do not.
If I have ten people that want the same bike (I am not a bike dealer, but pretend I am for the purposes of this lesson), then the MSRP is NOT the value of that bike. At his higher price, I only have 5 people that want it. t this even higher price, I only have 3 people that want it. The price at which there is only one person who wants my one bike, or only 6 people who want my 6 bikes...that is the value. No other value exists for that bike outside of your head.
Value is the place where supply and demand meet, a price point known as "equilibrium." Why should someone sell a bike to you, at a price that will disappoint 5 other people, rather than sell it at a higher price where there is only one guy who still wants it, disappointing no one?
@@kennedymcgovern5413 market pricing aside, the one bike at the price only one person can afford brings in a certain amount of profit for HD versus a fairly fixed manufacturing cost to make a volume of bikes in general at a plant. The one bike doesn't exist in a vacuum - someone else may not always buy it, dealerships may end up sitting on models for 1-2 years until they finally get discounted enough to get sold at a loss.
Those situations that may quickly spiral into something that leads to bailouts and shifting more production overseas.
At least around me the inventory on bikes are piling up, where you can barely stand one up inside the showroom.
I would say that is over the top. Ride Safe
You're not buying a premium product. You're buying a feeling that's been sold to you.
That is a great way to put it. Ride Safe
Thanks for sharing this perspective Jack. Ride safe and enjoy. ✌️👍👊
Thanks for the support. Ride Safe
I responded to an HD dealership ad last spring, what motivated me was the “All Inclusive Price” and they listed everything, Shipping PDI etc, along with a very strong mission statement in regards to “THE PRICE IS THE PRICE” nothing hidden, we thrive on honesty etc etc, I contacted by phone to confirm “the all inclusive price” ....3 days of phone calls , emails etc they still would not commit to what they had advertised, I reminded them of the strong mission statement and “all inclusive price” still got no where, I thanked them for waisting 3 days I’ll never get back, false advertising not a concern it seems.
Bait and Switch. Sometimes they will give you a FREE hotdog. Ride Safe
So interesting to hear your thoughts and others about some dealerships. The differences in them can be so vast, I must wonder if this is in fact what is happening everywhere. Harley Corp should pay attention to these insights to keep their legendary brand thriving. Also, cookie cutter shops would make the buyer and regular rider think twice about stopping when they all look the same. Price gouging and not honoring warranties is a disgrace and probably illegal.
The cookie-cutter approach will also be used to distract riders from just visiting dealers. Do you ever just visit a Big Box store to look around? Ride Safe
If it was a problem, it would have been solved a long time ago but we are in business to make money for the franchise and the corporation. If you want something for nothing, vote for democrats.
@@gfunk63901 Ha ha we see that didn’t work! Prices are through the roof. We all want the dealers to prosper but spread it over a large amount of customers. Ride Safe
I been in six different HD dealers. Not one price tag hanging.
Yes, it does not happen anymore. Ride Safe
I had the same issue in 2020 when I bought my Softail Standard. One dealer had it at $3000 over MSRP. Went to another dealer in the Valley and bought one for $1000 under MSRP. The first dealer, before they changed their name, was known to rip people off. Kind of like Barnett in El Paso.
I feel your pain. I need to keep looking around and see what is out there. Ride Safe
I agree, HD MSRP is so far off now. I'm seeing dealer markups putting bikes 5k+ above MSRP, and I've seen people saying it's even higher in their areas. Like you said HDR, why HD even bothers showing it on the site is beyond me at this point.
Maybe they can do like a restaurant does with a Lobster dinner, Current Market Value? Ride Safe
It's called business. Car dealers were taking advantage as well. They are tanking now. Repo's are climbing across the board. Best thing to do. Don't buy until they stop with their bs. Besides I don't by from the woke corps anymore.
I bought a leftover 2022 royal enfield 350 classci OTD $5,250.
About the markup you mentioned.
great video Most dealers I dealt with in Tennessee did the same thing, double the prep, doubled the doc fees plus a dealer mark up charge of $1400, that was nonnegotiable plus added on a mandatory protection plan.
Yeah, that whole bait & switch tactic with prices is a hard pass from me. I'm surprised the gov't hasn't enforced Monroney stickers on bikes like they do on cars & trucks.
I once had a guy try a hard sales tactic with me on a car... he showed up an hour late to my appt to see the car, and immediately asked, "so, what's it gonna take to put you in that car today?" I turned to his manager, who was standing right next to him, and said, "not seeing HIM any more, or I'm leaving." and I pointed at the sales guy. The manager told him to get coffee for him, and I dealt with the manager on the deal, LOL.
Most dealers' cars, bikes, and trucks feel we can't go anywhere else. Like we own them something? Ride Safe
Maybe the non-Monroney issue is due to motorcycles being a "luxury" item not a necessity. Just a guess.
@@joel8034on that note so are cars and trucks
What you said is so true. Harley needs to shop dealers!! That’s why I ride an Indian. Ride Safe Brother!
Do you find Indians more dependable, and how is their service? I have been looking at the Challenger. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider I have 25,000 miles on my 2017 Indian Springfield. Not one issue. Service from my dealer has been outstanding. Ride Sfae
@HarleyDayRider I'll chime in if I can. I have an Indian Roadmaster. Reliable, smooth riding bike. Dealers I've been to have been awesome.
Very informative thanks HDR
Thanks for watching. Ride Safe
Instead of controlling HD dealers aesthetics, HD should be getting bad business practices under control.
Right. But I have heard we are not their customers, the dealers are. Ride Safe
Interesting topic HDR; Personally I don’t think these dealers are doing anything different than any car dealer. You hit the nail on the head…walk away. We have to remember, you are not there to make friends. You are there for a business transaction. We are the consumers and we run the show. I have 5 HD dealers within a hour or so….speaking of that. When you start shopping take a look in our area around Norfolk , VA. Huge military town and always a lot of low mileage bikes.
Thanks for the tip. I have been looking at used and new bikes not sure which direction I will go just yet? Ride Safe
Yes. Car dealers have a extremely poor reputation. I have dealt with many although now i will not buy new. So second hand cars i purchase are from.private owners. Far more honesty.
Great information. Thank you.
Please have your garage structurally evaluated against wind failure.
It is very solid. It is insured for sure. Ride Safe
Eye opening information
Thank You
Thanks, I am happy to help. Ride Safe
I visited my local Tennessee HD dealership 6 times trying to buy my first HD after over 40 years of riding. I was interested in a Pan America and nothing else. They kept inflating the price, and telling me I couldn't get one at MSRP. Then they started having me test ride a bike other than the model I wanted. The last straw was when I made an appointment to talk to my salesperson, and I stood around for over 45 minutes while he talked to several other customers. I finally got disgusted and left, now I ride a spiffy Suzuki V-Strom 1050XT that cost me $10,000 LESS than the base Pan America, and included many accessories. Maybe I will try again in a couple of years.
Sounds like you came away with a great motorcycle. I feel bad dealers are hurting sales, and you just proved it. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider too bad HD never produced the Bronx... I would have bought that in a hot second.
Sucks man, I got mine at MSRP and they gave me more for my trade than they rightfully even should have, I love my Pan but these people marking them up are crazy. My dealer has a new 22 GI edition he would do for 19k right now to move it.
Bought my first Harley in 1996. Paid a $5000 premium. At that time, there was a 2 year waiting list. That was, if you could even get on a waiting list. Many dealers catered to their long time customers. Getting on the list wasn’t a given. I remember walking into a Windsor Canada dealer and saw a showroom overflowing with new bikes. But being a Yank, I couldn’t buy one at any price. Same deal going on today.
I remember when you had to order your new bike and wait for it to arrive. Ride Safe
That was when H-D hadn’t oversaturated their market and you could trade your bike in the next year for a new model or sell it for more than you bought it for.
The ‘premium pricing’ no longer holds up when you can find 100 of the same bike for sale, 1 year old used for 2/3 or less than the original price.
I agree with your passion, thank you for helping us to not get ripped off💐
Thanks for the kind comment. I hope it helps. Ride Safe
Great video! Thanks brother !,
Thanks for watching. Ride Safe
I've had many bikes over the years, bought my first Harley a few years back. Currently have an Ultra and an FJR, love them both. But the Yamaha was so much easier of a buying experience and I felt like I was getting screwed much less buying it.
I just want to find a new bike, and I don't mind paying, I do, however mind overpaying. Ride Safe
Unfortunately, we only have one Harley dealer where I live. They couldn’t care less about me and didn’t even give me the time of day when I walked in.
This is very sad to hear. I know how you feel. Ride Safe
Ha you must be from Vermont also?
@@jimgomez5396 no, I’m from Calgary in Canada.
And it’s only going to get worse as more dealers close, leaving no competition for the remaining ones.
@@Mike-vn3mb agreed.
The closest dealer to me went under new management and went out of business about 5yrs ago. They were the worst. They fired all the staff everyone knew. Sales didn't know what they were talking about. Parts dept ordered wrong stuff all the time, lost orders etc. Service dept damaged bikes, and they couldn't seem to ever put a tire on the right way. No biker events ever. It was the owners way or the highway. They never changed and went away because of it.
Taking care of the customer is the main topic for a business to run and profit. Lose the customer and lose the business. Ride Safe
I agree!!! If HD says msrp is $29,999 + 2k for special paint... don't show me a paper that says $40,500...shame shame Pensacola HD
I feel this is just how they sell bikes. It is bad for us and great for the dealers bottom line. Ride Safe
Manufacturer's are asking too much for stuff... stores and dealers have to ask too much. We gotta stop buying like everything to fix it lol
I agree 100%. But trying to get even three people to stand together in these times is impossible. Ride Safe
I bought a new Harley three months ago and went to a couple of different dealerships. They were within $18 of each other they were both almost $2000 over MSRP. I think they’re all in cahoots.
Many dealers are owned by the same group in a given area. Unless we are willing to go to another state, we could get caught in a trap. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Yeah, I know that there are two different dealerships in my area and they both are part of dealer groups of like five each so they own pretty much all the dealerships in New Hampshire , Maine and northern Massachusetts
I bought a new one once in 06 and my experience wasn't bad , but the fact is you can find low mileage used ones loaded up with aftermarket goodies let someone else take the depreciation. There are a lot of guy's who are polisher's that buy , but don't ride
I found a few great bikes used yesterday. I found 2019 with 9,000 miles. Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will buy the next one used with what I want on it already. You are right why take the hit? Ride Safe
I had a terrible experience 20 years ago with my local HD dealer, I never bought another HD and have been a happy BMW rider since
I have never ridden a BMW. I will have to seek out a dealer for a demo ride. Ride Safe
Wildcat HD in Kentucky is the only ones I’ll buy a bike from and it’s because the reverse motor went out on my TriGlide 1 years after the warranty expired and I took it in to replace the $700 motor and they didn’t charge me a dime. And I ask why I didn’t owe for it, and the manager said he knew I’d come back again if I ever needed anything.
My wife bought $200 worth of t-shirts that day 😁👍
This is a positive, uplifting story. So your wife got two t-shirts. Ha ha. Ride Safe
That's called great business...
I had to travel from another state to get my deal at retail back in 2021. Times are hard... I get it but something has to give... I work too hard for surcharges prices. If, I'm ever in the market again for a new bike. It's going to be a leftover or used bike. I respect my money too much. Plain n simple... ps Whenever, I see a dealer without prices on their bike. It's a done deal for me. Mama didn't raised no fool. My time is very valuable to me and I'm not going to waste any more time with that type of sale tactics. I'm out!
I feel the same way. Everyone, including me loves a new motorcycle. But I am looking at the used market. I feel you can get more for less and no extra fees. Ride Safe
I dont think some dealers are crushing the brand on purpose...but some dealers maybe doing it unintentionally....the #1 difference between dealers....doesnt matter if its Honda...Harley...suzuki...GMC...Ford...Dodge....the #1 thing that will make or break a dealer is management!!...I recently bought a new truck from a Ford dealer I used years ago and had a horrible experience...I went back a couple months ago...new management....completely different experience...they were awesome!!...great video...thanks for sharing...stay safe out there!!!😎👍🤙👍🤙🇨🇦
I feel the same way. But why can't the dealers just sell you a bike and make it enjoyable so you will spread the word? Ride Safe
I have seen the similar thing happen here in Australia. Also a harley davidson specific dealer seems to be useless, profile you one way or another an either speak to you if they think you money an fit the criteria or ignore you if you dont fit into the mould. But a multi brand dealer is seems always happy to help out no matter what.
I feel the same way. Ride Safe
I dont think I'll be buying any more Harleys. I had a pan/shovel combo for a few yrs. Apparently I wanted it to behave like a Japanese cruiser because the Yam Vstar I have now is the best cruiser I've owned and I've owned a lot of bikes in my time. If there was a choice between the two bikes sitting side by side, knowing what I know after all these years? I'd take the Yam without hesitation but I'd still WANT the Harley. I remember when a new HD was $3500.00. Adding a zero to the end I just cannot swallow.
I love the Harley. I am looking at other brands to see how they ride and what I am getting for my money. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Im the same as you, I ride A 2019 RGS which I love, however I kept looking at the latest generation goldwing DCT, in the end I had to try and test ride one, that was a real issue as Hondas policy is no test rides... anyhow I found a dealership with a used one who allowed me a test ride. Took it out and although I loved the DCT and power and smoothness of the motor I hated the riding position and stupid bag design... maybe I might try again in the future, however there is talk of GW's ending soon due to EU emissions regulations.. guess time will tell
They always want to talk payment,they want to know your your budget, want to know how much you willing to spend a month. They get none of that from me. I am polite but firm. If can't get them to give me an out-the-door price within 20 minutes of talking to them I'm done.
Yes, I wonder if they do that to see what they can really charge. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider that's exactly why they do it cuz if they can stretch out the payments they can hook you up with a long-term loan they make all the money in the F&I office.
The dealership here in Corpus Christi is notorious for this. I've walked away from them several times and ended up buying from a dealer in another city. I asked the sales rep why they don't put the MSRP price on the bikes and he told me they are not an MSRP dealer, I walked out. Figure out what bike you want and then shop around, in Texas there are dealers all over the place.
Which dealer did you end up using? I’m am trying to find a good one in Texas
I am going to do just that. I need to shop around. Glad you found a good deal. Ride Safe
I am glad that there are no dealer markups at Harley dealers in my country. The stupendous road tax (around 25-30%) however makes up for it
I wish this was the same in the USA. Ride Safe
Harley dealers are straight up robbers ,they want more than MSRP of new bikes on used bikes!!!
Yes, and why are prices not hanging on the used bikes? Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider no prices on the used bikes, they want you to have ask sales so they can put the pressure on
MSRP is a “Suggested Retail Price”, then they tell you that you need to add Freight which they price and they have added an additional Supply Sucharge as well. So that 27,999 is now 29,999 for the basic black. The dealers are adding anywhere from 5k to 10k based on the model as a ADM (Added Dealer Markup). Rule of thumb is that you can buy anything for MSRP price OTD… but my experience has been you can get additional monies off to get the bike at least $1000 below MSRP including all taxes and fees. - I used to be in the car business and the bump stickers and fluff is optional. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY the addendums it is pure profit with very little additional value. Addendum Stickers are just additional dealer profit, walk out the door like the HDR says.
This is where Harley needs to put a stop to this practice. I know corporate sales numbers come from what they are sending to the dealers, not what we are buying. And charging freight is crazy, has anyone noticed that Harley has their own trucks? Great points and thanks for sharing. Ride Safe
Agreed. I haven't ever tried to purchase a new Harley, but I have purchased 3 new bikes in the past. I have never paid MSRP, out the door -- typically $1k under MSRP after TTL.
Harley dealers love bending over so-called ‘alpha males’ who don’t have the spine to negotiate hard.
The only good way to own a Harley these days is to buy one that is a few years old with low miles, where someone else ate the overpriced original purchase and depreciation.
I'm so glad I live in a country where the listed price is the price they have to give you by law. And that includes VAT. 👍
That would be amazing.
A lot of dealers are killing sales for a lot of manufacturers. Cars and motorcycles.
I agree with you 100%! Ride Safe
Motorcycle dealers are turning into car dealerships. The more and more large conglomerates buy up dealers its going to get worse. Using fees and all the add ons to jack the price. I will never ever buy a extended warranty it is pure profit for the dealer. My local dealer always jacks up over MSRP. MSRP is MSRP I will not give you a penny more than that. HD charges premium prices for sure.
The dealer buys the bike from HD at a wholesale price anyway. So MSRP is what we should be paying. Ride Safe
I totally agree with the criticism of over-priced Harley's (marking up the MRSP), it's ridiculous. Notwithstanding, I still remember my high school Economics & Marketing class lesson that sellers will charge what the market will bear.
If a firm is pricing its product based on whatever the market will bear, it means that the firm is charging as high a price as the consumers would be ready to pay. This can be done by firms that enjoy consumer loyalty. It can also be done when a firm is selling a new innovative product. (now let's see, which one is Harley Davidson?😁
People are obviously still buying Harleys at these ridiculous prices. It will be interesting to see just what the market will actually bear. 😐
That is part of the problem. People are still paying for whatever is asked of them. But some of us older bikers just can't waste money but still would love a new motorcycle. Ride Safe
@@PeterAnglesexactly. The people willing to pay way over MSRP are the ones dumb enough to finance it at over 20% as well. Harley is well known for screwing themselves and their customers in the long term to meet next quarter’s numbers.
I went to a dealership in Lawton Ok and they had bought an auction bike that had been lade over and slid. They didn't even fix it and were asking full retail! I told them they had lost there mind and he said it only has 600 miles. I told him it slid on its side for most of those miles. The bike was beautiful on one side and trashed on the other! I haven't gone back!!
Well that is just not right. Ride Safe
My 1978 Low Rider has been parked in my house as art work. My big flat twin is so so smooth and quiet
Nice to have art work as a bike. Cool. Yes, the bigger the engine, the smoother the ride. Ride Safe
Maybe I'm naive but can I ask, why on earth anyone would ever buy a new Harley? There are hundreds of used HDs for sale these days, at far better prices. Harleys are reasonably low tech and wrench-friendly. Buy used, and make friends with your local independent bike mechanic if you aren't mechanically adept yourself. What am I missing?
I like to buy new when I can because I know the history of the bike. I am not saying this is right or wrong; just explaining why. I have also bought a few used bikes and had no issues. So I think you are on to something. I also have an independent Harley tech who takes excellent care of my bike. Ride Safe
The dealer near me wanted $37,000 for a ‘23 Street Glide ST. I made a 6 hour round trip and saved $5000. Widen your search area. It could save you $$$$$$$
Thanks, I will be doing that. Ride Safe
My Harley was the 2001 model the parts guy at the dealer in Golden laughed in my face when I asked for a new set of throttle cables he said the model was too old to service
Of course. They want you to buy a new bike. Ride Safe
I had to go 3 hours away to find what I was looking for. There are 6 dealers in that range, but this was the only one that came close to acting like they wanted my businesses, not just sell me a bike. There were a few snaphews, but they went out of their way to correct them. Everyone in the dealership was friendly to me AND my wife. Supper ready to talk to and to make a deal with. I shook hands one the deal in the parking lot. Didn't have to go in and run the numbers. AND no hassle when I didn't purchase the extended warranty. I payed cash for my bike AND it was a used 2008. They asked like I had bought the most expensive bike on the floor. I have to give the name because I would not hesitate to send anyone to them for a deal OR service. It was Black Diamond Harley in Marion Illinois. They salesman even thru in a pair of grips because I made a comment on how the old ones had some wear on them. I watch a friend go thru a bad deal with two other dealers. And that is when I started looking to go as far as I had to to find a good dealer.
I love to hear a success story. I bought two used bikes in the past, and they just said have a nice day. I think they should blow the horns and ring the bell on every sell they make. It is a big deal to use buying new or used motorcycles. Ride Safe
Bought my brand new 2016 Harley Dyna low Rider from Rattle Snake Harley Kennewick Wa. got a good price and was treated very well for being a first-time buyer
I have heard they are a really great dealer. Ride Safe
Harley is going to price themselves out of business. I can’t figure out how anyone can afford a new Harley
I agree with you 100%. Money is tight for everyone at this point. Ride Safe
HDR how do you feel about buying a used harley. I picked up a used 2006 road king for 6k about 4 yrs ago, put another 3k into it with new bars, exhaust, tuner, and rear suspension. It has been great for the riding I do, wish it had cruise control but otherwise no complaints.
My first two Harley's were used. I like buying used because most of the upgrades maybe done.
Give me your definition of a premium product. I own a 2005 Harley ultra, a 2000 Kawasaki, and a 2007 Victory Vegas jackpot , my Kawasaki has over 113,000 miles on it the Victory has over 70,000 and I have never been into the engines on them. I am fixing to do some minor upgrades on the Harley oil pump timing chain guides and rocker box gaskets. My definition of a premium product is not how much you pay but how much service you can get out of that product. Man that was a great topic! Have a great day
Thanks for enjoying the topic. The idea behind the premium product came from another TH-camr and a motorcycle tech. He said that the parts are built well. It sounds like you have a great stable of motorcycles. Ride Safe
I agree. I’ve had 3 Harleys. All three had significant problems. My Victory has 75k on it and the only thing that has ever been replaced (other than brakes and tires) is the speedometer. Runs and rides like a top.
I ride an '02 RK and a '17 Ultra, both bought new, and I seek out independent service shops and online retailers for most all my needs. As last resort I go to a HD dealership. I'm fine not riding the latest Harley, I can wait several years to buy another. My HD dealership experience hasn't been a good one. A dealership is the last place I shop for repairs, parts, accessorizes, and clothing. We all know the HD brand is an overpriced scam and we're all suckers. Bikers shouldn't be suckers, so stop it.
The logo is, I guess King! If it were me I would sell all my clothing lower so that I could have free advertising of the brand. But I am not a retail guy. I agree with waiting. Ride Safe
Tks. much.
Thanks for watching and stopping by the channel. Ride Safe
Harley is not the only brand with dealers and huge markups. I was just looking at Chevy Tahoes this weekend and they ALL had a $6000 markup on them.
Of course everything is negotiable. What I have found is that if the salesguy thinks you're ready to buy the bike (or the car) they will give you the real numbers.
If they think you're just kicking tires you get the MSRP plus all the fees price.
The easiest way to cut through the nonsense is to make your offer. They either say yes or no. It's really not that hard.
That is a great tip. Thanks! Ride Safe
Premium is questionable. I own a Honda Fury and my bike is a premium bike. Thanks!
I agree with what you are saying. My tech says some of their parts are premium. I should have clarified that. Ride Safe
It's really been like that since mom and pop dealerships have been bought up by greedy and deceptive companies
Yes, Big dealerships owned by multiple people lost that personal touch. Ride Safe
coffee water popcorn comment reminds me of when the owner of a dealership (or really any business) has a pizza party for their workers... you know.. to really show that appreciation hahaha
My mother used to tell her boss to keep the hand outs and raise her pay. Ride Safe
A lot of this is a result of so many Harley customers defaulting on their payments. It’s so bad that the company has gone public stating that there’s not enough repo companies to retrieve the bikes that people can’t pay for. Just because you see bikes flying off the showroom floor, does it really matter if that bike is back in 6 months to a year because the person who bought it defaulted on the loan? Every time that happens the dealership takes a huge loss. To offset those losses they raise the prices of the rest of their stock.
And now with Harley completely abandoning the average Joe consumer and trying to assume a Cadillac style business model by appealing primarily to the upper middle class and rich retired or close to retired demographic. You still have the younger demographic that are trying to get into that Harley “family” bs they push even though they can’t afford it, due to Harley’s history.
Under no circumstances should a new softail standard cost more than 12k in 2023. And I’m only giving in 12k because it has the M8 107 in it. But that’s where we are now with Harley because no matter how hard the consumer gets screwed, the Harley fanatics keep coming back for more.
I agree with you. They need to do a better job of credit checking. You will enjoy the M8 107. It is a good engine. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider appreciate the well wishes but I’ll be purchasing an Indian next month when I get back home, I’ll be out of the country until then. It’s either going to be a Chief Bobber Darkhorse, a Springfield Darkhorse or a Chieftain. Depends on which one I can get the better deal for at the local dealer. I have nothing against Harley motorcycles, I just don’t like their business practices, and prefer the feel of the Indians. However one day my garage will be full of both brands. 🤘🏾
Stay safe out there and keep the rubber side down.
After hammering out an "Out the Door Price" i came back the next day with a bank check and when i went to sign the paperwork & pay I see they jacked up the price by almost $3000. I said "screw that" and walked. My friend and i were on our way to another dealership and when i got a call from the messed up dealership approximately 20 minutes later saying they would stick to our original deal. I told them I'd MAYBE come back there tomorrow. I did, and got my motorcycle for what we agreed on out the door.
They should never up the price after you get the loan. This is just crazy. They are lucky they got you back. Ride Safe
You are absolute right. In general, dealers don’t share the same logic as the customers. Of course, it is business and business needs to be profitable. But they do exaggerate, over step the reasonable level. But the big HD corporation is to blame as well, they should be more at our side. See the example you mentioned on the extended warranty… Also, it bothers me that HD send the same pin and patch if you hit 1000, 5000, 40,000, 100,000 miles… so, a guy kept riding the same brand for 100,000 miles and get the same recognition as a newbie? Especially these day with so many good options for motorcycles of different brands. Poor marketing, I think… low level of engagement with loyal customers… it seems they rely on dealers to keep the enthusiasm flowing.
I understand that. I have a lot of mileage patches. Ride Safe
I love Harley, but they are making a good case to look at other brands for sure.
I feel the same way. I have been a Harley guy forever. It just feels like the brand and the dealers are working hard to make everyone stop riding Harley's. Ride Safe
In the future I think HD dealerships will have to additionally sell foreign bikes to stay alive. You're right I wouldn't shop in a dealership with no price tags on bikes. In the end "It's your money & nobody can tell you how to spend it"
Very much the truth. Ride Safe
I have bought 4 new harleys. My experience I never had a problem talking OTD price its the only number I talk. One time my wife called the same dealer same salesman and he quoted 1k less on the new bike and 1k more on the trade in over the phone on the same day I talked to him in person. Told her take the deal we went down and bought on those terms. In my mind it showed what a game they can play.
There should not be a game. Just hang the REAL prices on the bikes, and they would sell more. Remember the loaf of bread from my video? We all pay the same price and get the same deal. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider Sales of this tuoe unfortunately will not be bread. You know the real one you got to watch out for is if you're financing or talking to that Finance person they're the ones that'll get you. That is why I feel very important to talk otd.
Harley lost me forever. Was looking to replace my 2012 ultra limited. New one, msrp 33k, after taxes, mark-up, b.s. fees, it was over 42k. I walked and bought a new 6-speed Goldwing for 11k less. I absolutely love it.
Very true with these dealerships. High pressure all over the place.
Maybe they are not selling enough? Ride Safe
Harv's in Macedon, NY. MSRP. Talk to Brian. Luv these guys, sales snd service!
Thanks for the recommendation. Ride Safe
Gets worse: my local dealer said flat out they will NOT work on any Harley over 10 years old. Drop 50+ grand on a Harley today and in 10 years you're on your own? Pass. I've got 3 and I just do all maintenance and repairs myself now. Did find a good local Harley shop (not a dealer) that was recommended by the dealer (?). Might let them do a little there.
They don't last that long.
I have an independent Harley tech who opened his own shop. I can tell you I am in and out quickly, and the issue is fixed. Plus the labor rates are $40.00 an hour. Ride Safe
This happened with mine $5k over MSRP. It was my first Harley and I was stupid and didn’t know what the MSRP were on them until way later. 2022 RG standard in black cost me $28k. I won’t be going back to that dealership.
Don't worry, this has happened to a lot of people. You are not alone. Maybe the Harley website should not say MSRP it should say wholesale price. Then at least we know there will be a markup. Ride Safe
I walked away at two of our local Harley dealerships. Called the BMW dealer and had the OTD price over the phone. My deal with financing was done in less than 1hr. The one Harley I did buy from HD I was about the walk out because the finance guys was screwing with the numbers. I just told him get the keys for my trade and tell my sales guy were are done and I am leaving... he finally quit his games.
and to be clear I have two Harley's and one BMW but I will look at others before walking into my local HD dealers
Very good points. There are a lot of great brands out there. Many people, including me, bought into Harley to be part of a larger group. Maybe there are also Indian groups out there? Ride Safe
I’m lucky that there are a dozen H-D dealers across central Fl. The one closest to me is notorious for selling $3000. Over MSRP! I went twenty minutes up the road to the other dealership and got $3000.00 under MSRP. Guess who gets all my service business? My motto, “Run them, maintain them, and ride them as long as I can. One bike I own I’ve had for 47 yrs. That is how I get return on investment. Many, many miles of smiles… Here’s a helpful hint, walk into a dealership and head to the service dept. Ask questions. Get the feel of how your treated. That’s where the relationship is good or bad. There are dealerships that will never get my business based on the service dept. And that’s not just Harley. Other brands as well have these issues.
That is a great tip, thanks for sharing. $3,000 under MSRP, you got a mega deal! Ride Safe
as an ex dealership staff member I can tell you they try to skin the Hyde off ever customer in every way possible. parts service and sales, you just cant win. if you're lucky enough to find an honest Dealership, stick with em, but good luck with that!,
I would love to open my own dealership and make good fair deals. Take care of the customer, and they will always take care of you. Ride Safe
If a Harley Davidson is a premium product, why do people spend $10,000 swapping out parts even after they paid 30,000 for the motorcycle?
You are exactly right. I heard that on a tech’s video. Ride Safe
This is 100% true.... it's always bait and switch, the bike on the website is never available... or the new msrp is 10k less than the dealer... then they want you to add 20 upgrades, 20 hidden charges... now the 25k bike is 40k... this is why I don't have a new trike yet.
Trikes are way out there. A friend has wanted a trike for years and can't afford the asking prices. Ride Safe
Been to many many dealers and there are a number of Harley dealers that need to update to the standard set by corporate. Some of the dealers are embarrassing. That being said, each dealer should have its own image as long as it’s high quality. Otherwise, there is no point to visiting different dealerships.
I agree with you 100%. Ride Safe
Had great experience at Red Rock Harley for my first Harley buying experience.
On my second experience, Summit Harley is straight horrible from a buying experience. Golden Spike took care of me.
But yes, any of the mark ups dealers are trash. Harley Corp needs to fix that asap.
I have been researching, and the dealers are given the green light to mark up prices from Harley. Ride Safe
My local HD's prices do seem a little higher than some but most of the factories closed down and so went most of the good paying jobs of the type of people that would buy a Harley.
Right, when people do not have jobs it makes it hard to buy toys. Ride Safe
I Walked out of Harley shop , drove. Over and bought a Indian cheftan elite. I like it.
Now, that is an excellent motorcycle. Congratulations. Ride Safe
I agree ,i was talkenAt the harley shop in Houma La.
Very easy to fall for the tricks. They are good at it! Ride Safe
I had thr same experience last year. Asked for the ord price for a stock base roadking. After about 25 minutes, they gave mr a price 10k over msrp.
I wouldn't say I like sitting and running numbers for hours. I know they get paid by the hour but my time is valuable to me. Ride Safe
I got my Low Rider S at Texas Harley in Bedford, Texas. They weren’t rude at all. Very cool but they do price up and the financing was a joke. Go through your bank or credit union. The finance guy was verbally disarming and tried to slip a lot of “extras” in the financing. I haven’t been to a bad Harley dealership when it comes to customer service. Its the price gouging that is super annoying. Then again all brands do it
Yes, I feel you are right. But when you want a new bike, it does hurt that a true deal can not be made. Ride Safe
with you 100%.
been a rider for almost 50 Years. rode Harleys for 40 of those.
however, in the last decade or so, the dealership experience has gotten so bad that i will never buy a Harley again. I won’t even buy a piece of memorabilia or clothing or anything with their brand name on it.
They have become a true slice of Americana, otherwise known as “unbridled, greed, obnoxious condescension and failure to support after the sale”.
It’s pathetic and I hope it comes back around the bite them. if Harley goes out of business, i will laugh and say they deserve every bit of it.
I would rather buy a used metric bike and fix it up than a new Harley, the brand has become so disgusting to me.
keep on with the truth, brother. I would like to hope that somebody would listen and change some things but I’m not holding my breath, and even if they did change it, I’ll never trust him again. ride on.
Yes, years ago, it felt that they wanted us as customers. Now they want our money. Ride Safe
I was a Harley-Davidson Technician for San Francisco HD. The sales crew are in conference on how to make a sale.
Making a sale is easy. Learn the customer and make them happy with your price in the first 10 minutes. I know when a dealer wants to run numbers I can be there for the next 3 hours. Ride Safe
Whatever the msrp price is add 25-30% and that is what you're paying out the door not counting interest if you finance it. The dealer fees are fkn nuts!
Thanks for sharing this information. That is crazy high. Ride Safe
Bought a 21 PanAmerica when they came out. The 5th HD I bought from my dealer. This bike was great at first with minor issues. One by one, my friends who also started having issues and traded them in one by one. I held on to mine for 9300 miles. After 6 attempts to fix I went to trade it in and my dealer and they told me "We can't accept your motorcycle in Trade as we have too many on the floor!" Called HD Corp for advice and they wouldn't take my call any further than the answering person. Referred me to my Dealer. Next step was a lawsuit against HD and my Dealer, which I won, and not own TWO BMWs and will NEVER buy another HD as long as I live, The brand is now tarnished to my family.
I have a lot of friends who are trading off their Pan Americas. They have all reported in the end that it was not worth keeping. Ride Safe
First thing I think about when I see HD , my thoughts are " thank God there is something else to ride !!!" Chrome air compressors!!😊😊😊
I've never heard that expression. Ride Safe
@@HarleyDayRider thanks man!! Just rolled in the driveway from 515 mile 2 day through the woods in Pennsylvania!!! Our multistrada is a awesome machine!!!!😀😀😀😀😀🏍🏍🍺🍺🍺🍺
Plenty of other dealers and brands. You can always get something else to cover the HD Tattoos.
Lucky for me, I never got a Harley tattoo. Ride Safe
I had that same thing happen to me at harley davidson shop in waco tx. then again in bakersfield, ca
It is the way of the dealer. I have been hearing there are some great dealers out there; I just need to visit one for my new bike. Ride Safe