Inside The Legal Battle That Has Captivated The Hedge Fund World | James Fishback
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2024
- Forward Guidance is sponsored by VanEck. Learn more about the VanEck Morningstar Wide MOAT ETF (MOAT) at vaneck.com/MOATFG.
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Views expressed by James Fishback in this interview are solely his own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Jack Farley, Forward Guidance, Blockworks, or any other associated parties.
Although the title “head of macro” plays a central role in this ongoing legal dispute, James Fishback notes in this interview that his complaint also concerns his role in Greenlight’s macro returns during his employment. Recorded the evening of May 22, 2024.
James Fishback vs. Greenlight Capital: assets.bwbx.io/documents/user...
Greenlight Capital vs. James Fishback:
assets.bwbx.io/documents/user...
Follow James Fishback on Twitter x.com/j_fishback
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Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
06:31 Job Offer And Title
12:54 When Did James First Consider Himself To Be The Head of Macro?
20:44 Greenlight's Two Loans To Fishback (Totaling $337,346.12 Before Accrued Interest, Totaling $345,698.65 After Accrued Interest)
24:11 Van Eck Ad
24:51 How To Define "Running Macro Investing"
31:27 Written Evidence Of Greenlight Employees Referring To James As The "Head Of Macro"
50:38 James Considers David Einhorn's "Tweet Heard Round The World" an "Insult" And "A Lie"
57:15 Fishback: "I've Always Had The Itch To Be Entrepreneurial"
58:27 James' Resignation From Greenlight In Early August 2023
01:02:46 Fishback: A Billionaire Demanding That A Public University Take Down Content From A Student Organization Is A "Flagrant Violation Of The First Amendment"
01:03:46 Political Differences Between James Fishback And David Einhorn
01:10:40 James Fishback's Market Views: The Fed's "Lemonhead Problem"
01:14:30 Fishback: Fixed-Rate Liabilities And Floating-Rate Assets Means Fed's Interest Rate Hikes Have Actually Been Net Stimulative
01:19:40 Higher For Longer
01:27:28 Why James Thinks Donald Trump Will Win The 2024 Presidential Election
01:35:31 James' Bullish View On USD / JPY (Taking Advantage of Forward Curve)
01:42:35 Fishback's View Of U.S. Stock Market, AI, And Microsoft
01:47:00 Options & Path Dependency
01:48:52 View On Long-Term Bonds (Duration)
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Disclaimer: Nothing discussed on Forward Guidance should be considered as investment advice. Please always do your own research & speak to a financial advisor before thinking about, thinking about putting your money into these crazy markets. - บันเทิง
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Forward Guidance is sponsored by Van Eck. Learn more about the VanEck Morningstar Wide MOAT ETF (MOAT) at vaneck.com/MOATFG
I have thoroughly analyzed this discussion and come to the conclusion that this is a 2 hour long plea for more content ideas by Jack.
Jack you are the GOAT. You are taking a pretty big risk here of becoming collateral damage and I super appreciate that. Great interview. You did not shrink away from the hard questions even a tiny bit. I would say you were aggressively neutral. Fantastic job. Thank you so much!
Jack, you did not ask the most important question. How this dude without any formal education was running 100 million complex trades??
All my best trading was learned post education. Trading is like gaming. The best gamers (in mmos) are usually exploiting game inefficiency. That's similar with trading and not something you learn formally. This should make sense. Academia has already been mined for ideas.
@@Tential1 You are no where close to complex structured trades he is talking about.
@@togoniwhat is the implication here? That one requires a formal education to be better than someone else at x thing? The world just doesnt work that way
@@theguy9067 Well, it depends on the subject matter. I don't think you would go under a surgeon without any formal education or even a self-taught dentist. Even if James is a quant wizard, still one needs some years of experience before running swaps, derivatives and other structured trades at 100 million. Who gave him first 50 mil he was running before joining Greenlight?
Very interesting interview about the former head of macro of Greenlight. 👍😎
But who cares about titles? But I am biased, my ex-boss took my work and said that it was his work and idea after I left the company.
With this said, I would like to hear the argumentation in a courtroom why Einhorn offered him the $300,000 in exchange for something that in their view never happened and why he was associated with these macro trades. What a shitty company if they can't run there internal documentation correctly... 😄
Would I invest in Fishback's macro? Of course. He's supporting Trump and that shows that his moral standards are so low that he can successfully make money on Wall Street.
Kudos to Jack for being extremely calm and polite in the midst of confrontational moments!
Interesting! If i had that capital, i would have some flexibility. I would consider diversifying across different asset classes.
Absolutely. It's crucial to have a well-thought-out plan, especially considering the current state of the global economy.
I agree. Given the uncertainties, it might be wise to allocate a portion to safer options like bonds or fixed income securities.
But don't forget about growth potential. You'll want to balance safety with opportunities for higher returns, maybe through a mix of stocks and real estate.
The problem is that people don't have the knowledge needed to succeed in a challenging market. Only highly qualified professionals who had to experience the 2008 financial crisis could hope to earn a high salary in these challenging condition
Recently, I've been considering the possibility of speaking with consultants. I need guidance because I'm an adult, but I'm not sure if their services would be all that helpful.
Big news: sleazy stuff happens on Wall St.
Anyway ...
I don't think he's a scammer because no scammer would have gone out to start his own fund based on his own performance
I've worked at a lot of small firms so I've seen dumb stuff. It's rare to get a promo, without an increase in pay. I would have believed him if he said his pay increased. That said, I've seen this done to young people at small firms a lot of the time. You can increase their responsibilities without formally promoting them and they don't know. How to ask. The loan lands more credence to his story.
cool... but nobody cares about a petty dispute between greenlight and this one guy
Yeah no idea why they’d waste their platform on this 😂
"I was given more responsibility, more autonomy, and uh, that term head of macro, that's really where that started"
If "head of macro" was his official job title, no way he would have told the story of being promoted in that odd indirect way. Transparent BS
Interesting interview - as re. the dispute I think this guy has a near certain victory against D.E. On a side note, I really am impressed with James and hope you can have him on again to discuss his views in more detail. D.E. obviously can spot talent, a shame he decided to act in such a manner towards a guy who obviously made him a lot of money.
Many many red flags from this guy. "This was my first job. I went to Georgetown then got a 15 million to run a fund, then this".... Grinning 30 times per second, saying he ran futures book then getting upset that he's called out about not having done single stocks (which isn't shameful, but his ego can't handle it.) Also over and over and over again he clearly describes what an analyst/trader does, not what a head of a line of business does. He may have really nailed some interest rate trades, and it's weird that they won't acknowledge his existence, but it's clearly because he's insufferable and wants to pretend he is the embodiment of Greenlight Capital's performance now with a new fund. You can't do that in finance - your career has a way of ending in a series of odd events when you do.
he's like a mix of Martin Shkreli, mike ross, and Anna Sorokin. So hard to get a read of this guy
So he dropped everything to join Greenlight for 300Ka year. Greenlight took him on to exploit his ability ....why else?
The guy could leave at any time and ditch Greenlight ...and ultimately did.
What the hell is this guy's case? There is no case. He will lose ...big.
1. He claims official title doesn't matter yet seem insistent on using this title to promote himself and his new venture even in the face of legal ramifications.
2. He claims taking personal shots proves you're losing the argument yet can't help himself taking shots at Einhorn. For example the comment about 15b to 1b fund or insinuation that politics is clouding David's judgement.
3. The talk about first amendment is nonsensical in this context. The first amendment prevents governments from restricting speech.
4. His performance under the guidance of David may or may not indicate anything about his likely performance on his own.
5. Inviting David to a debate on a topic that David is an expert on because he was on Bloomberg tech is pure trolling and it worked to get the attention. While I don't know what David is or s not aware of, it was obvious not an sincere invitation for a debate due to the yet undisclosed legal affair. Claiming he published the lawsuit just because he had to respond even though he instigated the whole incident comes off as manipulative.
5. The only thing original about his views about markets & investing is the silly term Lemonhead. Might be the next Milkshake but unlikely.
James brings up some interesting points, but I still think he wants this released to try and help raise money for his new fund. You can't share performance from my understanding, so this is a way to do it. Einhorn would be an idiot to allow this clown to get this out. I bet it did do well, but Einhorn owns Fishback's performance while he was at Greenlight. What is odd is the fight over the title...
Let me set aside 2 hours for this. Can't wait to be captivated.
I've noticed this as well in the investment community. There's a left wing bias. And it goes unchecked, because the original thought is there's a right wing bias.
Did you know:
-The suicide rate increased *37%* from 2000-2022
-*12 million* people (4% of the population) thought seriously about suicide, in 2022
-Highest suicide rate since the Great Depression
New responsibilities and branding the role doesn't replace or override the offer letter's language. He might lose the case, but there's opportunity to claim the results informally by working the media and getting his name associated with the story. Unless there's a massive financial loss when he loses, it's not the worst idea. I get his point, but the first rule in business is to always have everything important in writing. Official documentation. Also, lowercase doesn't denote a title. If it was on the signature, id say theres some evidence. But if his signature was Analyst, then youre an analyst who specializes on macro.
They'll probably say they hired him for ideas and gave him additional scope. Gave him more $ for that scope but he was still an analyst. Decisions and strategy came from the top.
I'm not mad at the strategy. I'd be shocked if he wins in court though.
I'm half expecting them to come out with a defamation case after they get enough evidence/material from podcasts and interviews.
Also, him referencing the internal documents is opening himself up to another lawsuit. Baby, they're quiet because they're gathering material to bury you in court if they have to.
He's also attacking character. I dislike him more the more I listen.
I agree with you. The guy isn't very convincing. But you can't fault him for trying. Seems to me he's attempting to start a hedge fund. Big money isn't going to come unless you have a verified track record of running big money successfully. Appears he tried to latch on to Greenlight reputation by saying he, in fact, was personally responsible for managing some of their funds. Apparently, Greenlight got wind of the assertion and disagrees. Which is understandable as Einhorn is a stickler for detail and honest presentation. And they may just not want to be associated with Fishback more than necessary. Evidence will decide it in court. Likely Greenlight has the majority of convincing evidence. Can't fault him for trying to play up his Greenlight experience though. Maybe he went too far but it's a natural thing to do. But escalating the situation seems terrible judgement. Even if he does get some sort of legal relief, it's probably a huge negative for any major future finance industry plans.
I don't care about the disputants, but wonder what if anything this says about the handful of hedge-fund celebrity-superstars -- to what extent are their returns due to their own ideas, to what extent due to their hires ?
... This guest gets oilier and oilier the more he talks.
Are you trolling us Jack? How does this has any relevancy to the financial markets? Watching this has as much value as watching Sex and the City.
Macro discussion starts at 1:00:00
I understand companies go scorched earth when you leave. Res tech is pretty famous for that. I wouldn't have thought to offer my former employers a spot in my find.
Looks like this guy is phishing for a new job (maybe as a research analyst?). Possibly to pay his legal fees. 😶💰💸🤑
1:44:10 first person I've seen on your show that actually understands ai and what's happening.
Kennedy 2024 🇺🇸
Not a fan of that clock ticking away on options but I'm definitely a fan of a guest with a good microphone. Thank you for having the sense to make sure you are loud and clear with whatever you're saying unlike a lot of the guests on these shows who sound like they are on speaker half way across the room. Thank you!
Part of dropping out of college means you will learn real life lessons in real life.
Jack: "I'm glad we're doing some truth discovery here" -- RFLMAO !!
20 mins in so far. James comes across as a likeable and smart young man. I get the impression (so far) that he's telling the truth. I was unsure how this ended in court, I'm sure 300k is relatively small change to someone like him, so why not just tell them to stick their 300k forbearance up their arses, and move on. But just listened to the part where they were costing him investors in his new fund and threatening podcasts etc, so can now see why he would want this settled in court.
Macro on Macro, we love to see it.
This guy is literally insane
Dangerously based…
The choice to host this guy on your podcast is interesting. Like all your interviews, I think you did a good job navigating. You didnt just ask questions and you didnt get into speculation. You didnt get offended (at least didnt show it) when he was being condescending. Also, you didnt take his runaround when he started talking about language in the equity tweet. Thanks for pushing back. Continued respect to you, Jack.
This guy is a luminary
Well, he's a political hack. Better keep up with the candidates and angle for a job in DC, because only a fool would give this guy any serious money. Why isn't Vivake backing him even with all the name dropping? There's a ready source of cash right there.
Reminds me of Michael Cohen circa 2016. Thought he had his ticket punched and ended up in jail. Then bites the hand that once fed him.
Ever had lemonhead candy, Jack? ROTFLMAO
Do you think Norman Foster designs his architecture or is it done by his nameless graduates who receive no credit? This is standard practice.
Best known hedge fund manger in this country?! Any suggestions 😜
I'm normally a big fan of this podcast and your interviewing style Jack, but this one is a head-scratcher. The first ~70 minutes of he said/she said beef with Greenlight, and then odd sidebar into their political differences, should have been a different podcast. Maybe 'wall street palace intrigue' or 'inside baseball at hedge funds'. None of it has any relevance to 99% of your audience.
Nothing wrong with a muckraking podcast like that, but IMO it shouldn't be mixed in the same feed as your serious interviews with macro heavy-hitters.
Just one person's opinion.
As far as his case against Einhorn, it may be strong, and it sounds like it from his side of the story presented here. He comes off as a fast-talking charismatic, loudmouth salesman though, which makes me instinctively distrust him. He gives off Scaramucci/Belfort/O'Leary vibes; I'm sure he could talk his way out of anything given enough time.
The actual macro discussion is a mixture of retrospective fed analysis (easy to do in the rearview mirror, especially when at this point, it's been done many times before by better analysts) and political stump speech. At one point I was fully expecting to hear about the single mom he talked to in North Carolina, struggling to make ends meet. Or the pastor in El Paso, who can't afford to put gas in his vintage Mustang, or fix his rusting flagpole so he can hoist Ol' Glory over the family ranch one last time.
As you said - not much alpha. And not much original or novel analysis. He may well be the next market wizard, but not much evidence of it here IMO. Maybe those Greenlight trade ledgers will show that. Or maybe he just had a lucky streak like Cathy Wood and so many others. Time will tell, if he doesn't end up in politics first.
excellent episode thanks jack
Guy comes across as manipulative and a schemer.
sounds like a politician. So yes, I agree
Lol, welcome to wall street
I’m not listening behind 60 seconds
Even if everything else you say is true, not being able to recall your title is pretty bad optics!
Who tf cares?
2 💩
Long James
American Psycho
This guy sounds kind of like a sales man. Doesn't sound natural.
That's because he's a Florida man.
What a Voice this guest has !
One of the tells he's lying, IMO. He's putting on an act rather than speaking naturally (similar to Elizabeth Holmes as an example)
That's FISHbach, not FESHback. Big difference.
Meh 🫤 🤷♂️
nice coup getting Ramaswamy on the pod.
Green light probably f’d up, but this guy lost all credibility touting Musk & Trump. Poor judgment is poor judgment.
Literally the most irrelevant, boring piece of interview this year. Who cares . .
Don't watch it then