Cantonese Pronunciation, Video 4: Spelling Rules (Three Peculiarities of Jyutping)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- This is the last video in a four-part series on Cantonese pronunciation. The goal is to get familiar with the sounds of Cantonese and the IPA symbols. You'll then be able to learn them faster, either through your own studies or through my pronunciation trainers. More links below:
Flashcard Designs for Teaching Yourself Pronunciation: blog.fluent-forever.com/gallery/
My Pronunciation Trainers: fluent-forever.com/product/fl...
Anki Language Learning: ankilanguagelearning.com
More Anki Decks, including Pronunciation: speakada.com
Reddit's Anki Language Learning Community: / ankilanguagelearning
A super detailed discussion of the IPA: • Pronunciation Tutorial... - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
This serie should get a lot more views! Absolutely amazing!
4:43 The case of 愛 (to love) is actually the other way around. 愛 was originally pronounced as oi3. But since now the ng initial and null initial are kind of allophones, people may pronounce it as ngoi3.
yes, just look at 愛民邨 Oi Man Estate.
Yes it's an example of overcorrection
what about "duck"? Sheik dictionary lists it as "aap3", but I've always said it as "ngaap3"
Very excited to try out the trainer! Another phonetic change that is happening is the 'w' in 'gw' words is going away as well. For example 'zung1 gwok3' might be pronounced 'zung1 gok3.'
I would say that the [n] → [l] change in recent decades may roll back somewhat with the introduction of Mandarin being taught in Hong Kong. I had always thought 你 (nei5, meaning you) were supposed to be pronounced as _lei5_ throughout my childhood in the 1980s because I was taught that way.
It was only when I first started studying Mandarin in late 1980s and saw "你" pronounced as ní in Mandarin, that I began to realize the difference and to correct myself since then. I have also noticed that on Hong Kong TV shows (especially in news broadcasts), the actors/actresses/hosts etc. are pronouncing the [n]s. Of course, that won't change how everybody says them, but it is a start.
So, my hope is that, with the newer generation being more well-versed in Mandarin (due to it now almost being mandatory in more and more Kindergarten or elementary school) since after Year 2000, the younger generations will learn and know the difference between [n] and [l] and not make the same mistake that I made when I was younger. Well, at least that is my hope anyway. :-)
It will be interesting to see how this "n-l" saga plays out in the next few decades. Until then, yes, this video is absolutely correct that one will most likely hear [l] over [n] in initial consonants while in Hong Kong.
is that sound actually an /l/ and /n/, or is it something between /l/ and /n/? I hear southern Chinese people speaking Mandarin words like 男 and it sounds to me that it's neither /n/ nor /l/, something in between
i think the youngs will just completely not speaking canto anymore, that may be more worse than lazy pronunciation?
I don't think the influence of Mandarin is useful...
English had been implemented into HK for years, which has a clear difference between [n] & [l], but the merger didn't slow down at all. The Mandarin pronunciation is only increasing the ability for us to determine whether the original pronunciation is [n] or [l]. However, the younger generations learn languages from us, and our speech had mergers that already, how are they possible to reverse the process naturally?
The situation of n/l merger is similar to the disability for distinguishing L & R in Japanese in my own opinion. The child basically lost their ability to distinguish those sounds before they learn how to talk, even taking myself as an example, my mother's speech clearly separate [n] and [l] in Cantonese, but I was not aware of it a few years ago, even my brother is unable to pronounce or distinguish those words correctly.
Side note: I had read some blogs(?) claiming that 西關口音 merge [n] & [l] and contribute to this sound change. Other academic articles stated that Hakka (>10% HK origin) also contributes to this sound change since it don't distinguish [n] & [l].
Hey Wing Liu not just Hakka, but many Hokkien dialects also merged n with l, so that might also be a contributing factor
As a rule of thumb, high tones (1, 2, 3) don't occur with the ng- initial, while low tones (4, 5, 6) don't occur without an initial consonant, meaning that you usually only need to know the tone to be able to deduce whether the pronunciation with or without ng- is the older pronunciation or not.
There are counterexamples, though. A very common word is 啱 (ngaam¹) 'correct; suitable', which was originally a loanword, and thus "permitted" to have a mismatch between the tone and initial. Another one is 勾 (ngau¹) 'hook', which comes from earlier gau¹.
So, somebody else's comment that "love": ngoi3 was originally pronounced oi3 is actually true.
@@muizzsiddique yes, just look at 愛民邨 Oi Man Estate.
Thank you for
Cantonese Pronunciation.
so the trainer sounds really interesting. i went to the app store and installed the fluent-forever app on my android device; however, i find that the languages available don't include canonese. what gives?
hopefully after a year you found it but anyone else wondering - it's here: fluent-forever.com/product/fluent-forever-pronunciation-trainer/
another thing you're wrong:
-i in -oi and -ui are actually pronounced with rounded [y], ie [ɔːy] and [uːy]. dont unround them to [i]!
1:22 That reminded me of the Arabic letter ﻝ (Laam).
In my point of view, most so called lazy sounds are not acceptable. They are in fact wrong sounds. We should try our best to preserve our language. If someone pronounces the words wrongly, we should correct them.
Me, a HKer: i agger
The younger speakers are even unable to distinguish the merged sound...how can you correct them?
Some wrong pronunciations are obvious to everybody and the merger is reversing on the other hand, such as gw/g kw/k merger 國-->角