I know you are just doing a “hey Man” job but I know I’m not the only one who would love to see you put that drop piece of tubing in your hardness tester and see what the actual rC is.
Great fun, Adam! As a science type, I love to find excuses to measure something. How useful would a hardness test be, especially in a few different spots? I suspect that with all sorts of exotic machinery being manufactured these days, a lot of rather funky steel alloys might be mixing into people's scrap metal bins.
I miss this kind of content so much. I love this real manual machining and love your knowledge but more so the way you explain every aspect of what you’re doing and your thought process.
Always fun working with a mystery material. Add to that an unknown insert. Nothing like stacking the deck against yourself. I enjoy your CNC learning, but I enjoy manual machining better. Thanks for sharing.
I am sure I am not the only home shop amateur that gets some satisfaction watching a PRO struggle as much as we do !!! Love watching you manual work, it's absolutely the best !
Those are the kind of videos I like. No fancy stuff, just real world scenario. I'm a machinist myself and I felt little less alone by watching this video cause it shows what most of us have to do every single day. Solving other people problems by having to have more problems
Adam, thank you for showing the screw ups. I learn a lot when you show the adversity and difficulty of the problem. So many channels don't show this kinda stuff. In the real world difficulties will be encountered so showing them is critical.
Abom I know how you fill i was a tool and diemaker and machinest for 40years.. 83 years old now. i whatch all of your .love them. keep sending. vidios.
I used to transport heavy walled tubing like that, to various companies in England and Scotland, the ones in England were typically JCB Depots for hydraulic rams, the ones to Scotland were for Oil Rig drilling tubes, I begged a few bits for home, they welded well and certainly machined well too.
Way back in the day I used to make hooks and chains for GM. We cut 1 inch hot roll to length then forged them into hooks. The hot roll started having hard spots. Literally hunks of carbon in the rod. Had to use an abrasive saw to cut.
Test for Hardness on the waste end of the one with saw cuts in it. Maybe wrong shop. On the bandsaw carbide did it. How about a skip tooth or dual pitch - fine and wide gullet. I bet scrap steel and has bearing races that melted in to make the alloy harder.
Good content Adam! Keep it coming. As others have mentioned as well, I'm definitely partial to the manual work but I also understand the need to have CNC capability in today's world.
I've run into plenty of hard spots in A36/A500 or equivalent, I've taken to calling it "mystery steel." It's often recycled material and if they threw in too much high carbon steel it'll do this. They're usually small spots though, just enough to peel off 3-4 teeth. I'm thinking it really is just a lemon batch, something like too many leaf springs in the brick of crushed cars they melted down for it.
I love how you got more pissed about the inserts fouling the finish than you did about losing the screw from your hook rule. Sparks flying. Great episode!
Years ago I asked a machnists while making cuts in angle iron some sections took twice as long to cut thru. Told me angle iron is mostly recycled steel and anything goes into the steel furnace .
I use a casting cutoff blade that is special made for cutting castings ,they work great on stuff like that, i have been using one for over two years and use it just for tough stuff.
My eyeball sez that stuff was machining like a 4140HT in the lower Rockwell C range, or something similar. No forgiveness but always finishing beautifully. Decent carbon and alloy content, not enough hardness. Gooey. Prayers to the guy who has to weld it.
With as hard as that was to cut, it might have been worth while to toss it in a 500 degree F oven for a few hours to anneal it some. I've had to do that with some cheap stainless that I've had to turn before.
Why didn't you use your hardness tester before machining the material to see if that was within spec for the material? Couldn't that impact the welding? I'm not a welder is why I asked.
Material hardness is only an issue when welding if you’re trying to retain the hardness afterwards. The process of welding is going to heat the material up past critical, which will remove any hardness wherever the bead penetrated. Ductility can be a bigger issue, which is why pre-, interpass and post-heat in things like cast iron are so important.
Hi Adam, greeting from "across the pond". Congratulations on an absolutely superb bit of turning and problems solving. Commentary "just the right amount", (short and to the point), with plenty of good working input. Lovely to see some classic turning again!.
we cant get 4140 hollow bar here in Aus but even at that it would still cut easy on a bandsaw. interesting to see what happens when it trying to be welded ?
Something that I saw and wasn't sure if you'd run into it. The hydraulic/air feed on these saws have a place where they drop when they are sitting on the stop. I usually had to push the saw back up to it's full height, and then let it go. This worked when the saw was set to cut a heavy feed rate so that it wouldn't crash the blade. Basically it would preload the hydraulic/air cylinder to keep it from dropping the blade onto the part. Kept me from chewing up blades and still cut fast.
I've worked with enough recycled steel to learn that unless it's certified to be a particular grade, there are both ridiculously soft spots and then, there are some hard spots that will ruin multiple brand new drill bits within seconds. I imagine the same is true for cutting blades.
If you still can, please do a hardness test on the steel. I know nothing about machining besides what I've watched and seen, but to my musical ear that sound was off from a normal lathe work. There was like a high pitched ding in there and normally when watching and listening machining the cutting sounds constant (as one would believe a material be that's all the same composition). I'd like to see the hardness from both OD and the cut itself, just because curiosity.
Having machined enough boiler tubes over the years like stainless, low alloy, medium, and high alloy carbon steel, this material almost looked like it could be 9 chrome. Giant pain in the butt!
we have been getting lousy 1018, really ductile wont break a chip. finish is great but its giving us a ton of grief with our iscar dr drills not breaking a chip, which normally cut great with fantastic chip control. we think its metallurgical, low sulfur and high aluminum content seems to be a recurring theme in the stuff that wont break a chip, the "good" stuff is high sulfur and nearly no aluminum
The need to leave a proper finish can be appreciated as somebody who loves machining things (I’m not a machinist) but, as a welder, there comes a time when it’s disheartening to weld something so beautiful in place…. Just knowing it’s going to be destroyed when the equipment starts getting used. Kinda like watching a veterinarian examine cattle leaving his Rolex on without gloves. Lol
Looks like my chips from my Amazon special inserts lol. I’m just a hobbyist so I buy the cheap ones because I can never remember how to read the packs and which one I left on last. I remember you did videos on that a few years ago, but if I remember right I feel like you left out a couple things. I could also be a dummy though. The way that’s stringing up reminds me of stainless. Maybe he ran his saw to fast.
sometimes we miss the obvious. we know that we can cut high speed steel with carbide. so when you know you have saw blade imbedded in a softer material change the surface feet per minute as though you were cutting high speed steel. it may take longer but you save the insert.
I am a factory Iscar Rep in Southern IN/Kentucky. IC8250 is a great all around turning grade. Have you been able to try any of our newer F3P and M3P chip formers? They are great for chip control depending on your application. Your area Rep should be able to get you some samples. If not, please let me know and I will send you some! I love watching your videos!
Hey check this out. That blade was squealing pretty loudly. Personally, I'd slow that sucker down. Those blades are $100+, the carbide blade is much more expensive. It's obvious that the blade went away and work hardened in the groove. I'd be worried about welding that piece into whatever they're fixing, and creating some very hard spots against the weld.
Adam, you might (this is just a suggestion) want to find a cheap and slooow cordless drill and hook it to your compound feed. It makes for easy smooth long compound cuts.
Had that issue on a CAT machine trying to drill on some places. There were pretty soft spots, but also extremely hard spots. We're also having that lately on raw material as well on remelted steel.
We have been turning a ton of tubing at our shop lately and you usually have to drop the sfm by like 40% and up the feed on that tubing and it still won't break the chip well
You should use high magnification to look at the insert to see what effect that steel had on it compared to what you normally use. It would be interesting to see.
@@tristansimonin1376 that's my take. I've seen that before were some alloys will work harden in a blink of an eye. *Effectively* not mild. No idea why though.
From the looks of them chips I’d say that’s harder than you average mild steel. And it doesn’t finish out like that for me at least. Looks like some good material for some adapter plates or flanges. I hope it welds up alright.
I run alot of tubing that looks like that, its called 4140 HRHT on the sheets I've seen. I think that means Hot Rolled Heat Treated, I do know it's plenty hard when I run it, I usually have to run it around 375 Surface feet it seems, taking about .500 off the diameter per pass. I use a Iscar 643 8250 insert with good results but I use the 432 8250 alot as well on other stuff. This is a aircraft tail wheel fork spindle housing I machine lots of.
Reminds me of something I made from an alloyed tool steel (I think something with chrom and molybdenum), it also produced a lot of blue stringy chips. It only started to behave once I got to smaller diameters with higher stepover and lower surface speed (I only have a small benchtop lathe).
I have not looked at Abom79 channel for a year or more....Back in the early 1980's I had a one-man welding shop for 5 years...no bandsaw, lathe or mill...But, I did use a lot of DOM and CDS for making weld-on hinges...pretty much the same sort of heavy equipment uses. Everything I cut was abrasive (24") chop-saw or torch...CDS can be somewhat work hardened in the as-purchased state. depending on the type of steel you request, it will definitely be work hardened...and not guaranteed to be without some stresses or hard places. All the DOM or CDS I ever used had a much nicer outer surface finish. This stuff here almost looks like it was some sort of hot drawn process....? I bought all my material/s new from a steel supplier, they even recommended DOM for better tolerance on the ID for cold drawn rounds for the hinge pins..
That material behaves a lot like 4140 or similar. Not saying it IS that, there's other stuff that also makes similar chips. I machines something out of an old car hub, that I was told would be 1090 or something like that, and gets a very nice finish, but chips that are very stringy.
I have experienced that same blade destroying situation my self few years ago. 80 mm or just over 3” Bar stock had hard spots in it. I turned bar when it stopped cutting and it just kept stopping at same spot even after turning like there is small carbide pieces inside or something
Abom, I need that 6ft fan you got there for my 11x14ft room. It's hot and humid in NJ today. NJ is like FL but with slightly less humidity and slightly less bugs. lol
I know you are just doing a “hey Man” job but I know I’m not the only one who would love to see you put that drop piece of tubing in your hardness tester and see what the actual rC is.
Great fun, Adam! As a science type, I love to find excuses to measure something. How useful would a hardness test be, especially in a few different spots? I suspect that with all sorts of exotic machinery being manufactured these days, a lot of rather funky steel alloys might be mixing into people's scrap metal bins.
I miss this kind of content so much. I love this real manual machining and love your knowledge but more so the way you explain every aspect of what you’re doing and your thought process.
I know CNC is a game changer but this traditional machining is far more interesting to me. But then I prefer steam engines to diesel or electric.
Always fun working with a mystery material. Add to that an unknown insert. Nothing like stacking the deck against yourself. I enjoy your CNC learning, but I enjoy manual machining better. Thanks for sharing.
I am sure I am not the only home shop amateur that gets some satisfaction watching a PRO struggle as much as we do !!! Love watching you manual work, it's absolutely the best !
Pro lol
Those are the kind of videos I like.
No fancy stuff, just real world scenario.
I'm a machinist myself and I felt little less alone by watching this video cause it shows what most of us have to do every single day.
Solving other people problems by having to have more problems
Adam, thank you for showing the screw ups. I learn a lot when you show the adversity and difficulty of the problem. So many channels don't show this kinda stuff. In the real world difficulties will be encountered so showing them is critical.
Like a good old fashioned SNS. Just missing the old wooden bench. 🙂
This is the OG abom kind of videos I like!
Abom I know how you fill i was a tool and diemaker and machinest for 40years.. 83 years old now. i whatch all of your
.love them. keep sending. vidios.
I used to transport heavy walled tubing like that, to various companies in England and Scotland, the ones in England were typically JCB Depots for hydraulic rams, the ones to Scotland were for Oil Rig drilling tubes, I begged a few bits for home, they welded well and certainly machined well too.
Way back in the day I used to make hooks and chains for GM. We cut 1 inch hot roll to length then forged them into hooks. The hot roll started having hard spots. Literally hunks of carbon in the rod. Had to use an abrasive saw to cut.
Counterfeit blades? Seriously the number of knock offs in every market, including materials like titanium is scary.
Great video, Adam, I learned a bucketload. Thank you for the lessons in perseverance and troubleshooting! All the best!
thanks for adding the sound the saw makes. It helps hoby machinist like me.
That welding shop is a good source of weird problems and show content.
Test for Hardness on the waste end of the one with saw cuts in it. Maybe wrong shop. On the bandsaw carbide did it. How about a skip tooth or dual pitch - fine and wide gullet. I bet scrap steel and has bearing races that melted in to make the alloy harder.
Still love watching you work on stuff thanks for sharing from uk
This video right here is the kind of stuff that will keep me coming back to watch your videos! Thanks for such an interesting video...
Good content Adam! Keep it coming. As others have mentioned as well, I'm definitely partial to the manual work but I also understand the need to have CNC capability in today's world.
Awesome a man who takes pride in his work takes pride in himself
Did you use your Rockwell test to see how hard it is
I've run into plenty of hard spots in A36/A500 or equivalent, I've taken to calling it "mystery steel." It's often recycled material and if they threw in too much high carbon steel it'll do this. They're usually small spots though, just enough to peel off 3-4 teeth. I'm thinking it really is just a lemon batch, something like too many leaf springs in the brick of crushed cars they melted down for it.
I wonder if they put the blade on backwards
No. You’d have to flip it inside out which would be almost impossible with that size blade.
I love how you got more pissed about the inserts fouling the finish than you did about losing the screw from your hook rule. Sparks flying. Great episode!
Questionable Material Steel vs Abom with a carbide blade...yeah...I am backing carbide here, nothing beats carbide!
Great stuff, old school machining. Love it.
Since I’m a professional video watcher, I’ll say you did a fine job!! Love watching you work Adam!!! Nice job!
Years ago I asked a machnists while making cuts in angle iron some sections took twice as long to cut thru. Told me angle iron is mostly recycled steel and anything goes into the steel furnace .
Bed frames. They are the worst.
Rebar is the worst.
I use a casting cutoff blade that is special made for cutting castings ,they work great on stuff like that, i have been using one for over two years and use it just for tough stuff.
My eyeball sez that stuff was machining like a 4140HT in the lower Rockwell C range, or something similar. No forgiveness but always finishing beautifully. Decent carbon and alloy content, not enough hardness. Gooey. Prayers to the guy who has to weld it.
heh heh heh 😉
WOW! Frustrating day at the lathe. Thanks for showing me how to recover from this.
Abom, you have answered several questions that i have had in this one video, Thanks.
With as hard as that was to cut, it might have been worth while to toss it in a 500 degree F oven for a few hours to anneal it some.
I've had to do that with some cheap stainless that I've had to turn before.
I came to say the same thing ie try annealing it 👍
Good to see a job where you make the best of not-so-great starting conditions. And I always enjoy seeing manual work when it makes sense. 👍
Nice and clean 😊
Best regards from Greece
John Grizopoulos retired machinist
We got all these expert machinists up in the comments yo
Why didn't you use your hardness tester before machining the material to see if that was within spec for the material? Couldn't that impact the welding? I'm not a welder is why I asked.
hardness of the material will definitely change the welding parameters, you are correct
Thanks for verifying that for me. Ive done a few tack welds and run a couple of beads, thays it.
The hardness tester people weren't sponsoring the vidio the band saw mfg was
Material hardness is only an issue when welding if you’re trying to retain the hardness afterwards. The process of welding is going to heat the material up past critical, which will remove any hardness wherever the bead penetrated. Ductility can be a bigger issue, which is why pre-, interpass and post-heat in things like cast iron are so important.
Thanks for posting these videos. Even though I'm not in the trade there is still knowledge here that crosses over!
Just love these manual machining operations...🤘
Hi Adam, greeting from "across the pond". Congratulations on an absolutely superb bit of turning and problems solving. Commentary "just the right amount", (short and to the point), with plenty of good working input. Lovely to see some classic turning again!.
Nice job work video. Thanks Adam
I had a feeling you'd bump it in another 5 thou. Good job.
we cant get 4140 hollow bar here in Aus but even at that it would still cut easy on a bandsaw. interesting to see what happens when it trying to be welded ?
That cuts like 4140 tubing. I always run atleast .014" feed for roughing to get chip control.
The cut from the other bandsaw was not cut straight it took you several passes to straighten it out they might have a alignment issue
that mystery metal your buddy supplied you to be used as weld on 90mm pin bosses is probably some form of stress proof material....
Something that I saw and wasn't sure if you'd run into it. The hydraulic/air feed on these saws have a place where they drop when they are sitting on the stop. I usually had to push the saw back up to it's full height, and then let it go. This worked when the saw was set to cut a heavy feed rate so that it wouldn't crash the blade. Basically it would preload the hydraulic/air cylinder to keep it from dropping the blade onto the part. Kept me from chewing up blades and still cut fast.
You did good Adam. Yes I did enjoy your videos and as usual thanks
I've worked with enough recycled steel to learn that unless it's certified to be a particular grade, there are both ridiculously soft spots and then, there are some hard spots that will ruin multiple brand new drill bits within seconds. I imagine the same is true for cutting blades.
If you still can, please do a hardness test on the steel. I know nothing about machining besides what I've watched and seen, but to my musical ear that sound was off from a normal lathe work. There was like a high pitched ding in there and normally when watching and listening machining the cutting sounds constant (as one would believe a material be that's all the same composition). I'd like to see the hardness from both OD and the cut itself, just because curiosity.
Having machined enough boiler tubes over the years like stainless, low alloy, medium, and high alloy carbon steel, this material almost looked like it could be 9 chrome. Giant pain in the butt!
Good manual lathe!
Great to see a SNS after a long while! And a great ome too.
Wasn't really an SNS without showing viewer mail and tools from his father/grandfather or flea market finds.
Thanks for the show Adam 🍻
Right tool for the right job
I see the screw in your video. . Directly under your boring bar. . Clear as day. .
Its unreal that blade isn't even deflecting all over the place. Love the look of a hefty, laser sharp cut of hardened steel !
Definitely enjoyed the video. Thanks as always for the good filming.
we have been getting lousy 1018, really ductile wont break a chip. finish is great but its giving us a ton of grief with our iscar dr drills not breaking a chip, which normally cut great with fantastic chip control. we think its metallurgical, low sulfur and high aluminum content seems to be a recurring theme in the stuff that wont break a chip, the "good" stuff is high sulfur and nearly no aluminum
The need to leave a proper finish can be appreciated as somebody who loves machining things (I’m not a machinist) but, as a welder, there comes a time when it’s disheartening to weld something so beautiful in place…. Just knowing it’s going to be destroyed when the equipment starts getting used. Kinda like watching a veterinarian examine cattle leaving his Rolex on without gloves. Lol
I don't understand why you didn't use your hardness tester to verify the "hardness" question !
How many other people are screaming that the screw fell on the back of the compound.
Nice one! Thank you abom79, getting it done!
Could it have been tool hardened from a dull blade?
Looks like my chips from my Amazon special inserts lol. I’m just a hobbyist so I buy the cheap ones because I can never remember how to read the packs and which one I left on last. I remember you did videos on that a few years ago, but if I remember right I feel like you left out a couple things. I could also be a dummy though. The way that’s stringing up reminds me of stainless. Maybe he ran his saw to fast.
sometimes we miss the obvious. we know that we can cut high speed steel with carbide. so when you know you have saw blade imbedded in a softer material change the surface feet per minute as though you were cutting high speed steel. it may take longer but you save the insert.
He knows that. He even mentioned it. But when one company sponsors you, you have to trash one company and prop up the other.
Thank you for sharing with us. Just right across the state line in Mobile.
I am a factory Iscar Rep in Southern IN/Kentucky. IC8250 is a great all around turning grade. Have you been able to try any of our newer F3P and M3P chip formers? They are great for chip control depending on your application. Your area Rep should be able to get you some samples. If not, please let me know and I will send you some! I love watching your videos!
Still well done job. Patience is the key and persistence.
Great work. It,s always good to meany strings to your bow. Well done.
Hey check this out. That blade was squealing pretty loudly. Personally, I'd slow that sucker down. Those blades are $100+, the carbide blade is much more expensive. It's obvious that the blade went away and work hardened in the groove. I'd be worried about welding that piece into whatever they're fixing, and creating some very hard spots against the weld.
That alternate/extra ending was a nice touch.
Adam, you might (this is just a suggestion) want to find a cheap and slooow cordless drill and hook it to your compound feed. It makes for easy smooth long compound cuts.
I think he likes to 'feel' the cuts. He's been doing this a very long time, and can do some very nice and smooth manual movements.
That's what I'd call making sheet metal the hard way!
pushing saw to hard or put the blade on backwards need to try the new cert wita that speed and feed ,that your cert required
UF is a finishing chip breaker.. you need either UG for general or UR for roughing
Had that issue on a CAT machine trying to drill on some places. There were pretty soft spots, but also extremely hard spots. We're also having that lately on raw material as well on remelted steel.
That PM TL-1660 is one sweet lathe....I hope you find that tiny Starrett screw during the clean up phase.
Amazing machining. Excelent video, thank you
THIS is quality ABomb material!
Good vid. interesting see not perfect stuff and ways to sort it.
We have been turning a ton of tubing at our shop lately and you usually have to drop the sfm by like 40% and up the feed on that tubing and it still won't break the chip well
You should use high magnification to look at the insert to see what effect that steel had on it compared to what you normally use. It would be interesting to see.
Best Abom Video In Ages!!!
That chip is telling a story. I'd like to see a follow up from joe about how that welds out.
Hopefully they use a rather high preheat and wrap it up to slow cool. What material do you think it might be?
@@davidbennett288For me it's definitely an alloy steel this surface finish is not mild steel finish
@@tristansimonin1376 that's my take. I've seen that before were some alloys will work harden in a blink of an eye. *Effectively* not mild. No idea why though.
@@evil16v1 yes and with a carbide saw there is no problem to cut hard steel
From the looks of them chips I’d say that’s harder than you average mild steel. And it doesn’t finish out like that for me at least. Looks like some good material for some adapter plates or flanges. I hope it welds up alright.
I run alot of tubing that looks like that, its called 4140 HRHT on the sheets I've seen. I think that means Hot Rolled Heat Treated, I do know it's plenty hard when I run it, I usually have to run it around 375 Surface feet it seems, taking about .500 off the diameter per pass. I use a Iscar 643 8250 insert with good results but I use the 432 8250 alot as well on other stuff. This is a aircraft tail wheel fork spindle housing I machine lots of.
Reminds me of something I made from an alloyed tool steel (I think something with chrom and molybdenum), it also produced a lot of blue stringy chips. It only started to behave once I got to smaller diameters with higher stepover and lower surface speed (I only have a small benchtop lathe).
No worries, those inserts will probably work for the high-speed CNC 😊
I have not looked at Abom79 channel for a year or more....Back in the early 1980's I had a one-man welding shop for 5 years...no bandsaw, lathe or mill...But, I did use a lot of DOM and CDS for making weld-on hinges...pretty much the same sort of heavy equipment uses.
Everything I cut was abrasive (24") chop-saw or torch...CDS can be somewhat work hardened in the as-purchased state. depending on the type of steel you request, it will definitely be work hardened...and not guaranteed to be without some stresses or hard places.
All the DOM or CDS I ever used had a much nicer outer surface finish. This stuff here almost looks like it was some sort of hot drawn process....?
I bought all my material/s new from a steel supplier, they even recommended DOM for better tolerance on the ID for cold drawn rounds for the hinge pins..
That material behaves a lot like 4140 or similar. Not saying it IS that, there's other stuff that also makes similar chips. I machines something out of an old car hub, that I was told would be 1090 or something like that, and gets a very nice finish, but chips that are very stringy.
It's amazing, the blogger is really creative and worth watching
You mention 'mild steel' during your commentary, but if it really work hardened, then probably some sort of alloy, right?
Cut it using an edm. I'd like to see a Rockwell test on the material.
Yup. Didn't he buy some fancy hardness tester a while back - or was that Keith Rucker?
First time I have seen ABOM stressed and understandably.
Great video Adam. Glad you did some more manual machining that is what made your channel. Hope to see more. THANK YOU. PS. keep on doing your bbq.
That material sounds hard on the band saw. Preheat to 300F and slow cool it.
I have experienced that same blade destroying situation my self few years ago. 80 mm or just over 3” Bar stock had hard spots in it. I turned bar when it stopped cutting and it just kept stopping at same spot even after turning like there is small carbide pieces inside or something
We're so lucky... we got two outros...
Abom, I need that 6ft fan you got there for my 11x14ft room. It's hot and humid in NJ today. NJ is like FL but with slightly less humidity and slightly less bugs. lol