Milling 13/16" Holes in Angle Iron for a Fast Turn-Around
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- The welding shop had a stack of 4x4x1/2 angle iron pieces cut 6" long that required some 13/16" holes machines in them and they needed them back right away. This was a great opportunity to use the @MilltronicsUSAInc TRM3016 cnc mill with my @TungaloyCorporation 1/2" Tung Force Rec end mill and use a helical interpolation tool path to mill the holes to size. This was a good technique to quickly get the holes machined in these parts and utilizing two work offsets as well. #cncmachining #milltronics #tungaloy
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Not sure what all the negativity is about adam is learning cnc and sharing his journey, some of the best cnc programmers out there are also manual Machinists. If your not interested in the cnc ones skip them and watch the ones your interested in no need to be butt hurt 😂
I try and make a habit of not listening to peoples advice if their goal is to stop me from learning and growing. Hope he keeps doing the things he enjoys, continues to learn new things, and share them with all of us.
@@johnnyrayh5858 I found it an enjoyable video, I'd like to see some of the complainers manually program a CNC, many would argue turning handles is easier.
Just people being armchair critics. It’s easier to criticize than to do.
@@weldchip But have we seen Adam manually program a CNC machine? I haven't seen him go into MDI mode and even write a simple program. Or go through line by line a program already created for him, explaining what it's doing. I guess that's pretty hard to do anyways, as @mechanicaladvantage has advised him not to bother learning how to write it ( or presumably understand it either). And Adam keeps on telling us he's off to write the program.....
@@stephenk79-rc1il I have seen him have a go at conventional programming. Also It was me that put him on to Kevin at mv. 🤣. Remember Adam is a humble guy he's not gonna come on here pretending he's a gcode wizard when he isn't, he's sharing his journey this is all new for him and he is being brave to share it. I wonder if some of the people on here being critical are the types that teach their kid to ride a bike and intentionally push them off as they start to get going 😦
One small suggestion Adam, set up your program to move the spindle off the workpiece when finished.might add 2 seconds to your cycle time but thru put might be faster since swapping parts might be easier.
I would agree. Bring your table to the door that way you aren't reaching underneath tools and it makes it easier to swap parts. You should be able to send the spindle home and the table to home or wherever you want it to be.
Rust will also kill bits
Very impressive enjoyed watching it
Why did the majority of the sparks fly to the left?
he had an air line off to the right blowing air across to the left
Must be liberals. 😉
Looks like you got some AR500 angle 😂
Warum gibt es unten im Loch Funken?
Because the thinness there heats metal.
So this channel is cnc now.
Will be looking for the Abom manual old school channel.
The variance between pieces for angle is why we were always quite liberal with our CNC code where I used to work, and we typically used spade drills for most bolt holes. This way we could get fairly uniform holes with only having a few tools, just needing to buy the spade inserts for what we used, and the ones we used also came in carbide, for heavy repeat work. I do like the helical milling for the holes that you did too though. Personally I'd probably only use that for more stable dimension materials, unless I put in the max variances in the code... but that would make it run a bit longer than necessary.... drill cycles also tend to be way faster than helical cycles... but practice is definitely practice.
Keep up the good work, and thanks for showing us these projects, simple or otherwise.
Drill it and knock of the edge...easy programming with a drill bit. Many ways to get it done.
If the holes are meant to hold bolts isn`t the hole location a little close to the wall?
They may be for welding in studs. You would not want a large fillet weld on the outside face but a weld on the inside would not get in the way of anything.
Thank you Adam. I appreciate your sharing. F the haters.
Adam, you ought to just buy out that Welding Shop business.... 😉🤣
If people dont enjoy watching Adam learn CNC, which i think is doing an excellent job, then go watch Titans of CNC. Adam is one of the most skilled machinists I've had the opportunity to watch on youtube. I've been a machinist for over 20 years, and I've learned quite a bit from him. At one point in time, all of us had to learn CNC. I struggled a bit at the beginning and made my fair share of mistakes, but it molded me into the programmer i am today. I think it's awesome him watching him learn and continue to improve upon his CNC abilities. Keep the videos coming, Adam ! Great job!
A36 is mystery steel, you never know what got recycled to make it or how homogenous the mix got. I've taken to treating it like 4140.
Something to help you out, edit the end of your program to send the tool to machine zero. I've noticed at the end of your program you leave the tool near your last cut so when you change the part you are working around the tool. It will help a lot when you are running a bunch of parts.
Great video Adam. Bet Joe at the Weld shop is going to need a new batch of these angles unless he has some very special nut being used. Doesn't make sense with the large clearance hole and being tight against the inside wall and radius. Let us know the outcome.
Thanks for sharing.
My first thought! There's no internal clearance for the size of nut or bolt head that would need a 13/16th hole, even allowing for a little wiggle room.
Keep up your exploration of new techniques and tools ❤
Thank you!
Been watching you since you started TH-cam, still learn something every time. Thanks
I appreciate that!
If I had to do it all over again I would like to have learned machining and possibly made a career of it. As a young 20 year old I was fascinated with the process but a Military career to me in other directions. Never the less I do enjoy the machining & milling TH-cam channels.
I personally really like seeing the cutting with coolant, that's just my preference though. It also gives me a lot more peace of mind watching this lol
If I were buying the tool bits and cutters etc. I would probably use the flood coolant all of the time. I agree, with all X,Y and Z programming, its likely a better idea to give more room than trying to start super close due to the variables in the stock material.
6:06. Listen carefully.
When ending the program home the tooling to the back to minimize the risk of hitting it with workpiece or your hand ! Ask me how I know !
especially the hand. stil have a scar from a drill that i clipped
Please demostrate the best methods in the future and forget the video quality as it turns out the shots taken with coolant on were tremendous, It drives me nuts to see a tool hurt for the sake of a picture. Nice programn written quickly, you are advancing nicely. Ray
Manually add some Gcode to the end (before M30)so it's goes up and close to the door for ease of changing parts. Example
G0Z200
G0G53Y0
As others have said how will a hex head bolt or hex nut not interfere with back leg. ?
Everyone is a professional in your comments, and complain about everything, i love it.😂 Killer work as always 🤘
Adam, fellow Milltronics user. We have a G32 in the end of code to take the tool out of the work area to toolchanger height. A G28Y0 will take the table to the operator. You may want to add a X component to that also. Awesome work !
sparks indicate wear on the inserts and too fass cutting speed and once a cutter sparks out your inserts are gone even if they look good.
Would a change to speed or feed stop that sparking or is it acceptable, things must be very hot for that to be happening. Im just a bit of an amateur machinist wanting to learn.
It's no problem that the chips are hot, if you want to kill the inserts faster use water.
Hey, I really appreciate this video! You really helped to take the mystery out of CDC programming, and how to fine tune things. I’d like to see more of these videos in the future!
Hi
Appreciate the effort to take us along. Job shop cnc can make you think outside the box.
@abom79 little tip turn the pressure on your air gun down a bit, if you have it too high you can blow chips under the way covers and its a royal pain to remove them and clear it all out. The other thing you can do is put a diverter valve on your flood coolant and have a low pressure wash down hose.
Always a joy watching Abom turning metal its so soothing and relaxing actually!
Put at the end of the program, G53 Z0; G53 Y0; M30; It will bring the Z up and the table to the front at the end of the cycle.
I thought the same thing, but think just setting the g30 location to a z height where you could change tool if needed and the xy to where the table is front and centered. Then have program end with a g30 and follow up with m30.
Helical interpolation = needing WAY fewer drill bits.
I really have a small inventory of drills over 3/8". For low volume, interpolating holes is easy gold.
Love the cleanup outro Adam, watched you for for 10+ years and i often wonder what goes on after jobs, or when you've got chips all over the shop floor!
I for one will never touch a lathe, or a CNC, or any machining system, but I still find these videos fascinating.
Another excellent learning experience. Looks like he’s getting more comfortable with ‘the CNC way’.
That's awesome Adam. The old mill scale is tough on any tool you shove through there fast with or without coolant.
I noticed that the sparking reduced markedly when the improvised jacks walked out. Check the video.
Hey Abom, i think its a big value for all those who want to get into the CNC machining, you are doing them all a great favor the way you explain your operations and the way how you share your journey into this new chapter !
Could just be material. Another indication of wear is watching load meter on spindle. Watch it as it runs. As you get through parts and your load meter starts looking higher through your cycles you’ll see it
Have you considered adding a command at the end of the program to raise the head up and away from the surface? It would make loading the pieces easier and less chance of hitting the tool.
And bring the table up to the door so you don't have to lean over so much. Let the robot do the work.
I use G30 for this
Did you notice that the sparks stopped when the harmonics came back after the jacks loosened?
Adam, with the CNC jobs note the spindle load during different parts of the job. Because it's CNC those loads should not change much part to part. When you start having worn tooling that number will jump pretty obviously.
I use tungaloy high feed mills every day. The 2" 5 flute is a beast and can turn a full 30hp into chips.
That tool you are using can be had as just a head that screws into a carbide shank. When you have to reach 4" into a tight spot with a small diamater tool, that is the best one ive found.
The MJ inserts last longer throwing sparks with an air blast then they do with coolant.
When I have millions of M3 tapped holes in a part, I do the same thing. .093" end mill and a .098" thread mill that has single thread cutting head and I interpolate the holes and threads. I do alot of copper and aluminum heatsinks that can be expensive mistakes if I break a drill or tap!.
Nice to watch. Depending on tolerances needed these could be a very fast punch job. 4-5 pieced per min. I will say though circle interpolation seems as fast as drilling.
Gotta get me one of those tape measures with the extra large #'s . Retired electrician and drove me crazy hitting a hard spot while drilling in angle iron. Was told they use everything but the kitchen sink scrapes to make it. Used 4 by 4" angle iron to fasten 4 by 4" wood legs to my home made work bench. Used recycled 3 by 10" wood for top of bench. Thing weights a ton.
Have Z return home/tool change position and position x and y so it’s easier to change parts.
Vibration and no jack - no sparks
Jack and no vibration - sparks
I noticed that also! Very interesting that the vibrations reduced the amount of sparking. Or something did.
Forgot to add time + wear to the equation.
something you were missing about the sparking of the inserts. The reason they sparked on the first couple is because by the tip it starts to break thru the other side the material gets thinner and ends up hitting the face of the cutter more. Then when you added the jacks it was constantly pushing the material back up into the cutter.
When I drill holes like that it is usually an accident and they don't come out round.😂. I hope experienced machinists don't mind your explanations. I am not a machinist at all. I just appreciate watching true craftsman doing their thing. So for a guy like me all explanations are useful and adds a lot to the viewing.
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
Another great video that is best enjoyed without reading any comments 🥰
There are a lot of angry people here aren’t there?? Not sure why! Thanks for your sweet comment! -Abby ❤️
@@Abom79 yeah I'm not sure what's wrong with people you and Adam are some of the nicest most genuine people I have met. I have fond memories of Adam cooking us some killer lunches at John's shop doing the scraping class down in Florida, Adam and I spoke about him getting into CNC and I'm very happy to see he took the plunge and is doing well with it.
So is there a batch of machinist jacks as a shop project coming up?
don't see anyone making comments about the feed direction? should it feed in a clockwise direction? in my mind it will rub the insert running anti clockwise
on CNC machines you climb mill. on a bore that means going anti-clockwise
You could have put two back to back, Then you could have done four plate instead of two.
Reach with a short tool would be hard. You also have to clamp them and the additional time to do the clamping is probably going to add more time than is saved by doing two together like that.
@@martinconnelly1473i think he meant to place another one just behind the one in the vise now, not on top
@@rahullaghari1459 then you lose your datum on the fixed jaw of the vice. Angle iron is not made to high tolerance.
Im just curious where you are getting your speeds and feeds for all these CNC videos? Always seems like sfm is always very high
yes, same here. Not that i know any better, just trying to learn. Would have liked to see 3 degree helix.
Why is it sparking when you use the machinist jacks but its not sparking when you dont use them?
Also you should not use flood coolant with insert tools
Using coolant on inserts destroys them after my experience. The rapid heating and cooling is not good. Better with a constant heat.
If you had through spindle coolant perhaps it would supply more even temp. to the inserts?
I've heard the same thing. I've cut dry and wet. Seems that the grade of insert makes the difference on what it likes.
Not finding a place to buy these handy little mills. :(
how are they going to get 3/4 bolts in the holes without hitting the outstanding leg?
That's what I'm wondering
@@jeffreylane2967 The holes were supposed to be centered 1" from the inside of the angle not the outside. Oops
"Todo mundo sabes todo pero no sabes un carajo" love the vids very interesting
This is a great learning experience for you.
Could the big machine drill these holes in the length of angle before it was cut? Just a thought. Thanks.
Hell, the big machine could drill all the holes, and cut (not very efficiently) the parts apart.
😛😛😛😛😛😛❤❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
If you slowed down rpm's there would be no sparks also the inserts are more $ than the job is worth an old fashioned drill would be fine!
Funny comments about sparks. Really funny. So, as you get to the bottom of the material you are drilling and milling, material is thinner and as such builds up more heat. Therefore the sparks. You can easily run these inserts without coolant especially on this type of construction steel.
i have to say youtube not letting me get notifications on some of my subscribed channels is a bad thing and a good thing. i just spent the day catching up on your videos Adam. Just me with a beer and some homemade bbq ribs. Thank you for the great videos Adam, this content is my relaxation therapy.
All the people saying a nut or bolt head won't fit, without knowing the application who knows, it's possible it's welded on where the bolt head is on the outside away from the leg of the angle and a long bolt down thru to who knows what, or they may be to clamp down into a groove or something hence why they want it near the vertical leg.
or even a bolt with a shaved hex head - won't need a wrench because it indexes on the inside face.
Lots of comments on this. And Adam was replying to comments earlier on, a bit of a rarity on here. But does he pin a comment and clear it all up? I guess not!.
your rapid should always stop at least 0.02" from surface, any axis.
Your problem solving is getting better but it sure helps to have all your experience
It's weird to have the holes so close to the radius.
Is there space for a nut or bolt head?
Yup, chances are it's no good..... Not enough clearance for the nut. I've done millions of these (cnc plasma or Scotchman, depending on the tolerance). 1 7/8" is needed to clear the nut (2" is better) for the exterior surface. The inside angle will not work if less than 1 1/8" if measured from the corner
Maybe they are for studs. Or dowells for placement, or so the flat of the angle will hold the bolt head.
Give Adam's many years of ACTUAL WORK EXPERIENCE some credit. Way too many arm chair "experts" on youtube!
@@videodistroI think Adam is following instructions from the customer. If there is a clearance problem it's the customer fault.
@@videodistro Hey the customer asked for holes 1" in from the back of leg 1" in. I don't care what they do with the hole as long as its where the customer wanted it to be. Its not a job shops job to divine what the customer needs its their job to produce the part that they were told to produce. For a quicky job like this if I had talked to the customer and made sure that we were talking the same dimensions I would just run it. If I had any questions though since I was already on fusion to make the cam program I would make up a quick drawing for customer approval. Send that over to them in PDF with a digital signature field and make them sign off on it. That way if they did come back saying that the holes were in the wrong spot I could pull up their signed drawing and make sure I got paid.
@@TomDetka You got it right! Chances are they wanted the holes 1" from the web. At least the mistake is on angle iron. Even so time always costs more than material until you start playing with titanium
Some (if not most) formed metals will be harder 1/32 to 1/16" into the material, causing a little extra load on the spindle. And I am a little concerned that you do not have a 'soft' home at the end of the program. The tool (spindle) would be out of the when removing / moving part(s) from the vice, preventing the possibility of chipping the tool if it is over the work-piece.
You are concerned, are ya??
I would aim the coolant lower to hit the inserts instead of the shaft of the cutter
Very successful work Adam and clean and ready for the next batch.Thank you.
I suppose you noticed too that the sparks disappear through the majority of the cut when the jacks are not present or loose?
First I’ve watched in a year and I’m not disappointed. Thanks!
That is one very sweet machine. I have a CNC router that i want to mill some aluminum on but my problem is I can't slow the spindle down enough. I noticed you were milling at 6000 RPM which might work for me on aluminum in the CNC Router table.
why would you want to slow down the spindle in aluminium?
@@lunchman84 No i mean my spindle goes too fast. it loses a lot of torque if i slow it down too much.
6000 RPM is pretty much as slow as i can go.
@magicman9486 Exactly, but why? How big tools are you running? Singleflute tools will be your friend, high rpm low tool load and high feed.
@@lunchman84 I will probably just run single flute.
@@magicman9486 Small tool bits used on aluminium alloys usually require high rpm. If you look for a tool feed and speed calculator on the WWW you may find that a high speed small diameter tool matches your spindle speeds. A solid carbide Ø6 (1/4") tool for example can be run at close to 14000 rpm and a 3mm bit at double this.
Thank you for sharing with us Adam.
So....i always wonder what are you charging or what would someone doing this work charge?. I always wonder that
I suspect drilling 40 holes would cost around US$100, or $2.50 a hole, "out in the open" (away from export-controlled or defense industries, etc). Of course this depends on location, industry, lead time, and the relative sophistication of the vendor and customer. With some procurement capture like in defense, the pricing might be richer.
I could see a CNC shop quoting maybe 1-1.5 shop hours for this work (at 3.5 minutes per cycle this is 35 minutes of machine time), and at a fairway $150/shop hour, this would be $150-$225. Depending on the customer, that might be pocket change and you'd just get that money, but they might also protest, "dude this is just holes, it's not a hard job" and whittling that quote down, if they either were hard up or temperamentally enjoyed negotiating.
In realistic worlds, it would seem odd to even vendor out a job like this. You'd find the most junior person in the room and put them on a drill press to crank these out. Occupy a couple hours of their day on a grimy and repetitive but somewhat serene chore at $18/hr or whatever they're earning, plus pretty trivial consumables and capital costs. It would be odd to want a bunch of this kind of part and not have an appropriate knockaround drill press and access to entry-level manual labor.
In the case of this video, I'd be surprised if it there was any non-zero price. The revenue model is all video views and sponsorship revenue. I suspect Adam and Joe are trading the machining work for having something to film.
I do things that my Dad would have understood (electrical if it maters) and sometimes I wonder what he would have thought of the modern way of doing things. Have you ever thought of what your Dad would have thought of, say this job?
I think my dad would have been impressed while sitting back and watching. He would have had no interest in learning CNC.
Sparks for the fourth.
Sparks and booms! Don’t forget the booms, at least the ones you intend to happen.
Feed rate seems a bit fast but I may be wrong. Looks good Adam!
This one sparks joy!
before you start....WhAT....with a camera? Never heard you cuss
"fussing" isn't a curse word
@@SamCooler that aint what he said
I don’t see how a 3/4” bolt is going to be useful in those holes.
Because they are so close to the other leg a bolt head or a nut will never turn.
they told him what they needed, not his problem
I'm sure they'll get over it, as will you.
Yep, engineering is a desk post problem.
@@jimcollins9316 or he misheard them say 1" off the inside face
@@PhuckGoogles
I’d be surprised if they didn’t give him a drawing. I do a fair bit of this sort of work on my old manual machines, and I ALWAYS get a technical drawing from the customer, so that if there is a mistake I can point to the drawing and say “that’s what you told me to do”.
I would have asked the customer if they really wanted 1 inch from back edge.
I recon they want 1 inch from the underneeth ie the inside edge.
Because Abom said the holes are for 3 quarter inch bolts.
I know that bolts usually screw into something or have nuts on.
I dont believe anybody sells a 64th inch *thread wall* thickness nut.
And the nuts probably need a washer and rotation clearance, possibly even spanner, wrench or socket clearance too.
I was just wondering the same thing. Strange hole placement.
Yeah, me too. Can’t imagine a scenario where one would want holes located like this if bolts are supposed to go through somehow.
What makes you think that conversation wasn't had?
@@saintchuck9857 The way it's been done? Surely cause for concern and comment.
Just wondering if on the final assembly, the holes would be for locating pins. Hmmm?
Deilling a hole is not as easy as it looks.
Apparently Neither is spelling lol
Good Job Adam love the sparks. 😅
Nice movie!
Fun to watch, but I always prefer a drill bit for holes. They're just faster.
Yes they maybe faster if you have the right one on hand, sometimes you have to use what you have to get the job done now not later
i tig welded some square tube that had a lot of trash in it - was a disaster
What about a mag drill wouldn’t the be faster
It may not be possible to get an annular cutter of the required size. That means you would have to grind down one to suit the job which adds time and costs as you have a tool that is only good for that size, which is possibly a rare diameter to be cutting. Also the clean up of the stringy waste from a mag drill takes time. I have annular cutters I use in my mill and 16mm insert tools (near 5/8") similar to the 1/2" one in the video. The insert tool doing spiral milling is a flexible option where one tool can replace a large number of drills that would require their own tool holder and tool position. You can also produce flat bottomed blind holes with them. Mag drills are a great tool where they the best option such as on large fabrications out on the shop floor but when you have something small and repetitive to do many times it's hard to beat the cycle time of CNC if you can produce the program quickly, and that's where conversational milling or wizards make it an easy job.
Was not a fan when Adam got into CNC but rather enjoy it now. Just have no interest in doing it. It has its place and to stay competitive Adam has to have it available. I don't think that I'd want to do those on a radial arm. Just for giggles, I sure would like a gander at the Test Reports on that steel. It would be interesting doing some beams, channels, or box sections on the Flex CNC.
CNC has its place and this is where it shines. The only hand work required if knocking the sharp edge off the bottom side. No needles getting stuck in your hands. And you can knock a hundred of those out in a day no sweat.
In theory the Flex could do dozens of them in one pass, but the setup time would be huge. (reminds me of a debate about breaking DES on a vector super computer... in theory it could do it in seconds, but setting up the calculation would take over a day. :-) )
@@jfbeam I seem to recall Adam mentioning doing beams on it when it was first installed.
29:22 😬 Yikes! There goes your insert. 🤬
It was interesring seeing some of the chips catch fire even with lots of flood coolant. Im guessing one possible reason is it's just dirt-cheap A36 or A500 with a lot of dirt and unintentional alloy content and small inclusions in it. These days you'll see "Tofu Dregs" structural steel sometimes that looks like is was barely even melted in the EAF, and was poured into the continuous caster in a slushy state. So yeah, somerimes you van get significant surface hardening from hot rolling. I remember a job a few years ago I was drilling some 1-1/2" baseplates with a swingarm drill, it was the shittiest A36 I'd ever seen. Kept chewing up the drill bits, had to resharpen every 4-5 holes. That stuff made ugly, jagged, swiss-cheese looking chips no matter how much coolant I used. High Tofudregsium alloy content.
My dad started building a machine shop when I was in high school.. Had a manual mill, lathe and shaper to begin with.. He found some old K&T Milwaukee-Matic (60's vintage NC).. Once we got the cnc bug - we never went back. We ended up getting rid of our manual mills... It is so easy and quick to setup one offs with a cnc vs manual. Keep learning!
NICE little project
nice to see you back Adam.
You could save your back by parking the machine @ Z0,Y0 and X about the middle of the table before the M30