ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- Toronto music producer 5PiECE breaks down his approach to setting instrument levels and organizing a mix.
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“Late Night” by 5PiECE (Supported by FACTOR - Coming Soon)
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⏰ TIMESTAMPS ⏰
0:00 Introduction
2:16 The Set-Up
3:16 Creating Groups
6:58 Creating The Master
8:34 Why This Set-Up Works
9:27 How To Start Setting Levels
10:15 What Sound Should You Bring Up First?
11:11 Goals for Setting Levels
12:31 What Section Should You Start With?
13:44 Step-by-Step Level Setting
15:01 Setting Levels - Drums
20:02 Setting Levels - Bass
23:00 Setting Levels - Instruments
29:36 Balancing Group Volumes
35:06 Conclusion
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Copyright 5PiECE Music 2021
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Learn how to set your VOCAL levels in a mix next here: th-cam.com/video/ekS4BiFtL2E/w-d-xo.html
Honestly the biggest gem was starting from silence for Mixing!! Working as a solo artist you're producer and mixing/mastering engineer all in one, so sometimes the line of when you're wearing which hat gets blurred. I was so used to swinging between those two, that when you talked about starting from silence for Mixing, I finally understood why I was always getting my mixes wrong, and why it would take me longer to mix than it should. I'd always started mixing with everything already at unity and would only turn it down from there. Bit of a barbaric approach looking back on it now. Thank you so much for your quality content!
Totally! I know exactly what you mean. Lines definitely get blurred as you play more roles in this game. I’m glad you picked up the gem, it’s a super simple one but overlooked by many and definitely makes a huge difference. Salute Ali The Human! 👊🏼🙌🏼
Im so grateful to have come across a vid that I finally understand the breakdown of levels to gain stage. Thank you very much!
Anytime Jaye Roc! Glad I could help 👍🏻
Awsome!! this was actually really helpfull! i like how you create the groups and in the end balance them for the master
Glad I could help with this one, Glen! 👊🏼
Beautiful!
That was great. I appreciated breaking down in the 4 groups before the master. Made sense. Good job.
Most definitely! Organizing groups is a major key to this process working out in your favour. Glad I could help!! 🙏🏼
Excellent presentation...one of the best I have come across. Thanks a million.
Appreciate you! 🙏🏼
Good job!!
Man, I usually do not write comments like this, but this is an exceptional case.
I've been struggling with gain staging for a long time, I have already started and gave up so many times on the same mix.... Just because I could not understand the concept of headroom. Everytime I was putting some processing on a track, the volume raised and my gain structure went downhill. This video helped me a lot. Thank you so much.
So happy to hear this video was a game changer for you! Hope more of my tutorials do the same. Never give up! Just keep learning and you'll get there my friend. All the best 🙏🏼
Thank u so much! I've watched multiple gain staging videos and yours really hit home for me! I was setting all my levels to -10db no matter what! Today I had an Ah Ha moment thanks to you! The group busing was a Game changer for me! You explained it perfectly! I just leveled up significantly because of you! Thank you! I just liked and subscribed!
Amazing! Glad I could help you along your journey 👊🏼
Your the man, great video my friend 👍👍
thank you for watching 🙏🏼
Really Love you bro.....This is the 1....... no words
Thank you for the love! I got you 👊🏼👊🏼
Well done Buddy!
thank you 🙏🏼
My take away was the grouping the different instruments drums,keys etc...and having them all connected to a pre Master bus..that was very helpful...helps to have more control over all the tracks and head room 👍
You got it! Happy to share some of these nuggets with you and hope you check out some of my other content (if you haven't yet) for more tips like this! 👊🏼
🔥🔥🔥
🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Thank you for this great Video. Would you also create a Vocal Group if there would be vox in the instrumental?I really like to know how to mix vox into the instrumental.
I imagine by "vocal group" you're referring to vocal samples and other instrumental-related vocals. If so, absolutely!
Mate this is great, but I wouldn’t set levels with my faders for 1 reason: all inserts come pre-fader witch means that you might actually exceed the capabilities of some plugins, especially saturation and compression plugins. I would also pay more attention to average levels (lufs/rms) than peak levels. I aim to average around -20lufs on all my buses. You can do that with trim plugins on your buses in protools. Doing that you will find that you’ll have control over finer details on your saturation plugins.
Cheers mate!!! And happy mixing!🎉
I agree this is another great approach - especially when it comes to automation. Spot-on with the fact that faders happen after the plugins - I can't recall if I address that in this video (writing this reply much later as you can tell) but definitely aware of the signal flow here. Hopefully it helps others reading too.
I actually have talked about this exact approach (and have a separate video on it here: th-cam.com/video/MEG5ygA02yo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YUwZxXj0iCKQaHZW) and that way I can keep my faders reserved for automation purposes only. However, I also find this boils down to preference and awareness. Perhaps I will revisit the general concept of this video but incorporate it with what you've mentioned here.
Either way, much of the general concepts (organization, track prioritization and general levels I hit) all still apply to whether we use faders or a trim/volume insert at the start of the chain, the approach carries over.
Appreciate you watching and commenting! 👊🏼🙏🏼
So my question is... so after recording and setting the groups as you did... do you turn the gain of everything to 0 or the faders? And is this process the same for 2 track beats minus the instrument grouping?
Just to make sure we’re on the same page because I’m not 100% sure what you were referring to:
-all individual track FADERS are turned down to infinite, then brought up one by one to whatever level feels appropriate while being mindful of the principles
-the gain of each of these channels is usually unchanged BUT if one is too hot/loud, I’ll clip-gain it down on the actual audio clip
-sometimes, though not often, I’ll put a gain/trim/utility plugin on the individual channels and use that as an alternative to clip gain to reduce volume before setting the fader level, again usually if a sound is too hot/loud
-all groups and master faders stay at 0 until I’ve set Individual levels, then I rebalance them after once individual faders are set
Hopefully this helps clear things up a bit for you. Best of luck!
Dope content. I know protools is industry standard for mixing engineers but damn I swear ableton workflow is so much more intuitive and streamlined with the groups
As an Ableton user for production myself, there’s pros and cons to both. Pro Tools can be more intricate bc it allows for maximum control over routing while Ableton may appear easier, it’s not always so intuitive. It’s moreso that Ableton (and Logic and other DAWs) automatically does routing for you. While with Pro Tools you manually choose how to route things, which is more time consuming but gives you a bigger advantage in certain scenarios.
For me, I use PT to record, mix, master and do general engineering related things, while Ableton holds it down for writing songs and making beats. No bad choice here, just different workflows for different reasons
@@5piece thanks for the feedback man. I’ve never dabbles with protools I’m just a hobbyist at the moment but I do love ableton especially after the 11 update. Enjoying your content though as a producer getting more into the engineering side I’ve found some helpful videos on your page.
Thanks 🙏 for this tutorial @ 5piece. I have a question, what’s the All Instrumental 🎸 and EFX Masters for? Could you please explain it please if possible please
Thank you 🙏 Sir
No problem!
The All Instrument master would basically be all of your instrument sounds (or anything that’s not part of the bass or drum groups). I decide to group all instrument sounds together here - stuff like chords and melodies from all types of sounds such as guitars, pads, keys, synths, etc. Some people decide to split it further, and have subgroups within the all instrument group. I don’t do this but some ideas for that are a piano master, a guitar master, a brass master, etc. This is situational based on what your beat is made of.
The EFX Master is for time based and dimension effects only. Stuff like reverbs, and delays that create an ambience around sounds. Sometimes you just want some additional control around those elements- even if it’s just being able to turn down all FX by a couple db.
Hope this helps!!!
@@5piece Thank you for your time and explanation, Once again I have to say it Sir! you're the best of all TH-cam educators in my opinion
So if you were to record vocals in on this would you come in at -6db in this case?
Separate video on setting vocal levels here: th-cam.com/video/ekS4BiFtL2E/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZfzljOiNUlqPF8g0
Hope this helps!
Why is the bass stereo? How do you pan a stereo bass?..When I receive files like that..I divide them into mono an only use one file up the middle is that wrong? Thanks
Good question! I produced this song, and the bass I used was a stereo bass.
I also use a tool called "Stereomonoizer" (off camera, before setting up sessions) which can automatically detect if a sound should be mono or stereo, and convert it. If there are spatial differences between left and right channels (making them true stereo), then it doesn't affect it. However, if the left and right are identical, then it converts your file into a mono file automatically
I'd recommend you check that tool out, it'll make your life easier and remove the margin for error by arbitrarily choosing without actually knowing (don't worry though, I did the same thing for many years prior to finding out about it LOL)
Regarding panning, bass should not be panned as low frequencies are hard for the human ear to detect directionally. It just feels weird if you ever try it and I have yet to hear a situation where a bass sounds good panned more into one side of the stereo field.
Making a bass equally wider is different than panning it directionally into one side. Bass sounds should typically e dead center (at 0 or C) or if its stereo, like mine is here, you would have it be 100 Left and 100 Right (or 50/50, I know some DAWs have a maximum spread of 50, which I believe represents the same 100 maximum).
I think the confusion here is that, depending on what you've consumed content wise, we think bass SOUNDS (in general) need to be mono, but that is not true.
Low, bass FREQUENCIES tend to better suited to being mono for mono compatibility purposes (and the challenges with directionality I mentioned before) - however, it doesn't mean that they can never be stereo.
This really just boils down to the nature of the sound - being one source (mono) or two sources (stereo, left and right).
In my case here, the bass is stereo with a left and a right and not single mono source (although if both L/R channels were identical, then Stereomonoizer would've converted my bass file to mono before I even started this session as its the first thing I do during a mix set-up).
Because the bass is equally distributed to the left and right channels, the panning doesn't create a problem since there is a sort of equilibrium there and both L/R channels are producing the same level of bass in each - achieving the same effect as a mono bass in ways (albeit differently since again we're dealing with 2 sources but the overall sound and intended effect is the same).
Hope this helps!
Random but at around 18:35, it appears the jump in level from around -4 or so to 0.6 is because the shaker is hitting right on beat with the kick. Prior to adding the shaker in, this wasn't occurring even with the double clap.
Makes sense. As sounds combine, more loudness is produced and jumps like this happen. Appreciate you pointing it out!
I'm trying to apply this to an Ableton workflow 🤔
Same workflow really, just different visuals. You’ll rely more on GROUPS and RETURN TRACKS in Ableton as opposed to BUSES and AUX TRACKS. Hopefully that points you in the right direction-but I’ll consider shooting this same video using Ableton in the future 🤙🏼
Question: are you doing this pre or post fader? My guess is this is post fader meter, but I want to be clear. Im a Logic user, so I can’t tell by looking at your screen. Awesome breakdown by the way!
Hey cbrooks0905! Thanks for the question. So yes, this is all post-fader since we are setting levels. Pre-fader usually applies moreso to sends, as in a send to a reverb/delay etc. In this case, the fader is controlling the level of the volume as a whole, so we need to to be post fader. I’m not even sure if/how pre-fader would work here, or if it is even relevant. If I wanted to do a pre-fader move, I’d use a trim/utility plugin or the actual audio’s clip gain to adjust the volume of the track/clip before the final volume fader which is what we’re really relying on here. Hope this helps!!
@@5piece, this clears it up, thanks! I’ve been metering prefader for gain staging for years, but I’ve never thought about setting levels post fader until recently, which is how I found your video. Thanks for the insight.
FOR HIP HOP WOULD U START YOUR LEVELS BASED ON THE SOUL SAMPLE? WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED "INSTRUMENTS"? OR WOULD YOU TYPICALLY STILL START WITH THE DRUM GROUP? THANKS!
When in doubt, start with the loudest/most dynamic sounds, being the drums, first. If you’re struggling to get your soul sample to cut (in general), then start with that. It’s always situational since every song is different. Hope this helps.
@@5piece T H A N K Y O U
HELP 😅 Maybe I understand something wrong but in Ableton there is a dropdown menu „audio send to“ and I can only send audio or midi stems to another audio channel or set it to „sends only“ which rout the signal truth the returnbus but I need to bring it back in in the original stem then. I can not send the stems to a bus/aux (return in ableton) like you showed in the GREAT video. Could anyone held with this?
In Ableton, you just need to create a GROUP. Pro Tools requires a lot of manual routing that Ableton does automatically. Just click the tracks you want to group together, right click and Create Group or hold command + G. Hopefully this takes care of it for you!
This song sounds like something from Rockstar Games, Gta 4 for example, good job :D
Love to hear it! Thank you 🙏🏼
Does gain staging to -18dvu not apply here then? Honestly this video was so simple and quick, it feels a little too good to be true - I’ve always been told to GS to -18dvu in order to add plugins later, how would this differ following this method when adding EQ, Compression and Saturation, surely you’ll be clipping hard?
Yeah I agree. Your daw manual. And plugin manual should tell where they operate best at. -18. -12. Use a VU meter and hit 0. It wont hit near 0 on the fader. When using tape back in the day you get high as possible cause of noise. But not in digital. I use -12 on mine. But to each it’s own. . If it sound good in the end. It just sounds good 🤷🏾♂️ (todays high bit rates don’t sound clippy distorted like they used to so you can get away with more)
Only way to find out if its too good to be true is to try it. I'm not here to sell you on it, just show you how I approach things (or once approached things, since I did this video 2 years ago and some things have evolved) and hopefully you pull away at least one gem from it.
While targeting -18 VU can be a good starting point, it's not really a strict rule. Also, keep in mind that -18 VU is a reference point primarily for analog equipment.
In the digital realm (such as what I work on throughout this video), it's more about keeping your levels well below 0 dBFS to avoid clipping.
Some modern engineers prefer to work with different reference levels, such as -14 LUFS (Loudness Units Full Scale) for digital audio, which takes into account perceived loudness rather than just peak levels.
The most crucial aspect is to use your ears and judgment to ensure that your tracks sound good and maintain clarity and dynamics. Depending on the specific requirements of your project and the style of music you're working on, you may need to adjust your gain staging accordingly. Hope this helps.
Good tutorial! Why is that so many samples have huge variance in loudness? is there no industry standard? f.ex white noise exhaust and down lifters are always crazy loud. I was also wondering if I should aim for -6db for the intro and verses where I have less instrumentation. my problem now is that in my song the drop gets crazy loud because there I have drums and more bas, and then the intro seems weak in comparison. Should I use gain automation to have roughly -6db throughout? Thanks!
You should definitely be setting your levels in relation to one another. Some samples or sounds can be quieter than others for sure, so its up to you to navigate and bridge the gap between them. I'm not sure if there could be such an industry standard for samples - especially with how varying tastes are. Some like it more dynamic, some like it squashed and loud. As long as you can set levels without bringing up the noise-floor (that hissy sound) and also avoid audible clipping, then you should be able to manage it, regardless of if its -6 or beyond. Best of luck!
Bro how do you mix in that room?? I can hear everything
What do you hear? 😂 Some reflections? You made it sound like there’s a flock of birds in the room haha.
I suppose I’ve been mixing in there so long I’m used to it and understand how mixes translate outside of it. Referencing on other devices and in different environments helps 🤙🏼
It makes some sense but the issue is I'm assuming a vu Meter then knowing where ud want these levels to be set
Some people prefer to use a Vu meter when setting levels. If that works for you/them, then there's no problem here. Just showing you my workflow, once upon a time (updated video coming soon).
Please provide the song used in this video, Late Night. Thanks.
Not out yet but when it is, you will know. (yes I know, I'm taking my sweet time releasing it)
I’m tried of all this protools sht man where studio one people at ?
I think you’re scaring ‘em all off with comments like this 😂 while I’m using Pro Tools, I’d say 99% of what I teach has nothing to do with PT and more just about general strategy, approach and execution. I use Ableton, and other DAWs regularly as well. You can implement my lessons in whatever DAW you like 🤙🏼
@@5piece pro tools is king though
Gain staging?
I mix from midi
Can you do this tutorial using Fl studio
I think it will be more effective when you setting levels in mono…
It can definitely be helpful to do that. I typically reference in mono at times. I'm aware some other big engineers like MixedByAli prefer this approach. All lessons in the video still apply, whether you want to do it in mono or stereo - I just happen to prefer staying in stereo and then referencing and adjusting for mono situations later.
Pro Tools: 100 clicks
Studio One: 2 clicks DONE!
Studio One Wins! 🏆
FATALITY....
That’s why some call it Slow Tools….but overall the workflow is hard to beat. Use what you like, as long as what you create sounds good
@@5piece Amen brotha 💯
no Vu Meter, why because its an Eye thing?
I’m using the built-in peak meter on the Pro Tools channel usually, which displays it visually and also shows the value of the peak (ie -3db). You can use a Vu meter if you’d like as well though!
You have too many ads bro. Great video tho.
Appreciate the note but you’ll have to take that up with TH-cam, not me. I don’t choose how many ads take place on my channel, it’s all algorithms my G 👾
@@5piece sorry...thats what I meant. I meant youtube is putting too many ads on it. But at least you get paid sometimes. Keep up the great videos. New subby here.👍
Hey, bruh... Your intro music levels are ludicrous in comparison to your spoken vocals... i thought it was gonna blow out my smart TV levels and wake up my nephew down the hall. And then when you came out of the intro, back to your speaking, I couldn' t even hear you when I turned the intro music down to a reasonable level.
Not trying to be a jerk, intending this as a friendly "Head's up".
Best wishes.
*edit: i'm at @15:31 and you kick vs spoken word is too offset for me to hear what you are saying and not wake my nephew down the hall... I hope that you will consider level matching your interface audio with your spoken vocal for viewers in the future*.
Every one has a WHOLE prelude, then an intro, THEN they say over again what they said before the intro lol.. it’s ok but why did EVERYONE do this? maybe it’s bc everyone else does it.. idk
Chapter markers have ALWAYS been there from day one for your convenience, I encourage you to use them if you don't want to watch the intros. You can skip right to a part that interests you. Keep in mind you're complaining about a 2+ year old video at this point. My current videos have implemented this feedback, you won't find the same long-winded intros as my older content (such as this video).
2 1/2 minute intro for what?????
Complaining in the comments for what??? You can skip using the chapter markers if you don’t wanna watch the intro 🙄
@@5piece 🤣🤣
Bruh your content is awesome no doubt. But you talk a lot.. We don't need that. Do them fast without saying to much