I like how Keiko gets revenge later in DS9 "The Assignment" I liked this one, got to see them differently, I'm sure the actors liked it, they like to switch up now and then. I remember Marina talking about doing her own stunt in this episode, throwing herself back and hurting her tail bone, only to be really tiny on the screen so you couldn't make her out very well anyway, ha ha.
Thanks for taking the time to do the review. I realized why my opinions or at least memories of liking/not liking episodes differ from you often--viewers react to episodes emotionally. I remember liking this episode (my emotional reaction), but if I think about it (my primitive version of analysis mode) I realize its limitations.
I honestly really like the concept of a penal colony that separates neural energy from the host body. It’s not unlike the Death of Personality in B5, I think. I really want to know about the culture that takes up this method of punishment, as well as what crimes those people committed to get sentence that way. Also, I love how the criminal leader starts picking up Troi’s empathy. Why would those three even care about getting the others out? And when push comes to shove and Picard has his own hostages: why doesn’t she say “screw it” and just escape with her compatriots or alone? The only reason I can think of is her empathy rubbing off on him.
This episode also has Patricia Tallman cameo & introduction into Star Trek as unnamed security guard! Can’t believe you missed this one in your notes, Lore! (unless I missed it)
Picard volunteering to be a hostage was not the tactically wise thing to do, but it was the human thing to do. I always got the impression that this episode was written first as them being the Starfleet ghosts and the ending twist was the tacked on part. Particularly because of the way Data's possessor acts towards Worf. It seemed like he had a beef with Klingons, which would make sense if he was a Starfleet officer from that era. But as it turns out, he's from a place that has nothing to do with Klingons, so why is he so pissy towards Worf particularly? The thing with O'Brien's entity being weird and confused might be because he was from a species that was quite different from humanoids, so the nature of human relationships and reproduction might be alien to him.
I really wish that we had known more about what the aliens were really like. The one possessing Data sounds super interesting, although he would have been even more so if he really was a Starfleet ghost; it's so interesting to imagine how a Starfleet officer, even in the "Enterprise" era, could have had that huge a chip on his shoulder, not just toward Worf (though that would make sense that he's particularly hate a Klingon), but toward everybody. I kinda want to actually get that character, a Starfleet security person who's borderline psychotic, and enrolled in the interplanetary pseudo-military specifically as an outlet for his constant rage (kinda like Suder over on Voyager, but with a vicious emotionally unstable bully rather than a cold-blooded assassin).
I didn't remember this episode from back in the day very well, but watching it this week, I enjoyed it tremendously, mostly because of the music. Jay Chattaway may be "a composer who follows orders", but he wasn't going full Berman in this episode; he did a really amazing job of putting a swelling martial beat behind the three-man army as they charge through the ship's corridors, crashing through forcefields or scaring the crew away from their hostages. I absolutely loved those scenes, and the show's core climax (the hostage scenario) is quite engaging.
Finally, I've caught up to to the the TNG Ruminations to the start of our modern day year of hell. BTW. I'm watching these in 2021 and you still have a few episodes to go, so you didn't quite make it.
The plot is a “What if?” that’s full of holes, but it’s forgivable since it’s an opportunity to let the actors stretch, and for us to enjoy their talents. So it’s acceptable if it’s entertaining storytelling and performance. I agree I would have loved to see Sirtis use her lovely natural Hackney accent. 🇬🇧
We've had a few episodes recently where I've got about half way through and remembered what happens. Not a bad episode but I probably would have enjoyed it more first time round.
Actually, I liked this episode. For the tawdry reason that I enjoyed Data, O'Brien, and Troi being cold and ruthless villains, albeit possessed. Also, I just loved the introduction of Starfleet history in the form of the Daedalus-class.
Time code 5:50. The Academy Award for Random Episode Which Introduced a Surprising Amount of Cannon goes to.......The Price, season 3. That episode off-handedly introduced: wormholes, the quadrants of the galaxy, and a de-facto official speed for warp drive. Accidentally making this episode the de-facto secret prequel for both DS9 and Voyager.
The only decision that would have possibly made more sense than exchanging Picard for 5 wounded hostages would have been trying for sending Riker or Ro, who weren't needed for the planned countermeasures and might be able to fight better if that ended up being the solution. And no, they didn't fool me for a second about being Starfleet officers.
My head cannon on why the energy brings would die if blown into space is energy. The energy brings need a steady stream of energy to maintain 'cohesion' and the storms on the planet do provide that. There is also plenty of biological and, in datas case technological, energy to sustain them. In space no such energy (well radiation and such but I assume that will not work for them) but again this is my head cannon and I do not think it was intentional in the writing. I do like this episode though. And great reviews as usual. Keep them up.
While this episode of Lore's show is otherwise unremarkable, his fake technobabble is some of the awesomest nonsense I've ever heard. I kind of want a clip of just that bit of this Rumination, to use as a meme on chat boards and such.
While agree with nearly everything you said I do have to disagree with your analysis of Worf’s performance. You made it seem that he was just flat out incompetent, only grazing them and achieving nothing. The episode clearly showed that the stun setting wasn’t actually affecting the 3. Every single hostage taker was hit and the most they did was stumble. Data was hit right in his chest and didn’t even move. Worf even later in the episode tried to tell the bridge that phasers in stun have no effect on them so Riker’s plan of a wide beam stun setting wouldn’t work. Basically what I’m trying to say in this long rambling way, if they weren’t possessed Worf would have actually succeeded in taking them all down. I will point out it’s never explained why the stun setting has no affect on them but that was what the episode was showing.
This was the episode that got me into the show in the first place. The first episode I saw. I was young, it had plenty of action, and was interesting to me as a kid. It's definitely not the best ... It was enough to reel me in.
The reason that this show probably seems weak to Lore and other similar "nitpickers", for lack of a better term, is because they're taking more into account from other episodes than they should, and because the makers of the show moved in that direction more than they needed to in the first place. We wouldn't have to show Riker and Geordi failing to stop the transporters if there were no transporters; we wouldn't be criticizing Worf's failure with the phasers if we didn't have so much established power behind both Worf and the phasers. If this was an episode in Season 1 when the show was first coming out, and the fans of the show didn't know what the 24th-century Enterprise and its crew actually had the ability to do, then it might have been easier to construct an effective hostage situation.
Mem-summary: Alien entities take over the minds of Data, Troi, and Miles O'Brien (and claim to be members of the crew of a vessel that had vanished. They behave a bit eccentric though.)
Disembodied spirits of Humans? "Harumph!", I say! What a ludicrous notion. That can't possibly be the case. Disembodied spirits of aliens? Oh, well, of course! A rather lack-luster episode brought down by the three main villains. These entities aren't good villain material. They aren't credible, threatening, or intimidating. I wouldn't even go so far as to say they're competent. Ultimately, they're the worst thing villains can be.... annoying. Let's examine their plan. Apparently the original plan was for Evil-Troi to convince Picard to voluntary move the ship to the Southern Polar region. Okay, fine so far. Then, Evil-Data, with absolutely no discernible motive, decides to take matters into his own hands and attempts to force the Bridge Crew to move the ship, thereby completely ruining the plan. Good grief, Evil-Troi even scolds him for it as they leave the Bridge! They then decide to take hostages in Ten-Forward while pretending to be the ghosts of the Essex crew. Um, okay. The whole "ghost" plan might have worked if they weren't, you know, taking hostages - or if Evil-Data wasn't acting like a sadist with A.D.H.D. Seriously, these people are not competent. And it all makes Evil-Troi look less like an intelligent leader and more like a moron who is flying by the seat of her (his?) pants. Ultimately, all three are simply blunt, coarse, stupid, and not charismatic in the slightest. Evil-Troi is mostly just dull. Evil-O'Brien waffles between being dim-witted and unappealing (seriously, did we really have to have Keiko be put in what can only be called a near-rape scene - damn, what was uncomfortable!). And Evil-Data.... well, he's the worst offender of them all. Why was he made to be so brutal? From his needless attempt to take over the Bridge, to his pounding on the Ops Console, to him non-nonchalantly smashing a viewscreen in the corridor for no reason, to his glee at shooting people in Ten-Forward, to his borderline obsession with picking a fight with Worf, to his inability to tolerate two people talking, to his anger over Molly's crying, to his chocking of Picard even after the rescue attempt has failed.... I could go on but I trust my point is made. He's so over-the-top that it's farcical - especially given the fact that the three of them are trying to pass themselves off as poor, suffering souls just looking for an escape from their purgatory. Some good procedural stuff with the rest of the Bridge Crew and good directing elevate the episode slightly. 4/10
Season 5 onwards has more meh, but it is hardly outright offensive. (Code of Honor, Justice, The Child to name some of the ones that are objectively awful.) Bad writing doesn't trump offensive or abhorrent writing in my opinion.
I like how Keiko gets revenge later in DS9 "The Assignment"
I liked this one, got to see them differently, I'm sure the actors liked it, they like to switch up now and then.
I remember Marina talking about doing her own stunt in this episode, throwing herself back and hurting her tail bone, only to be really tiny on the screen so you couldn't make her out very well anyway, ha ha.
10:46 "He was possessed at the time so we can forgive him the competency". That's my laugh of the day :)
Thanks for taking the time to do the review. I realized why my opinions or at least memories of liking/not liking episodes differ from you often--viewers react to episodes emotionally. I remember liking this episode (my emotional reaction), but if I think about it (my primitive version of analysis mode) I realize its limitations.
I rather like it: the set-up is a bit contrived, but it works out as quite a nice battle of wits.
I honestly really like the concept of a penal colony that separates neural energy from the host body. It’s not unlike the Death of Personality in B5, I think. I really want to know about the culture that takes up this method of punishment, as well as what crimes those people committed to get sentence that way.
Also, I love how the criminal leader starts picking up Troi’s empathy. Why would those three even care about getting the others out? And when push comes to shove and Picard has his own hostages: why doesn’t she say “screw it” and just escape with her compatriots or alone? The only reason I can think of is her empathy rubbing off on him.
This episode also has Patricia Tallman cameo & introduction into Star Trek as unnamed security guard!
Can’t believe you missed this one in your notes, Lore! (unless I missed it)
Picard volunteering to be a hostage was not the tactically wise thing to do, but it was the human thing to do.
I always got the impression that this episode was written first as them being the Starfleet ghosts and the ending twist was the tacked on part. Particularly because of the way Data's possessor acts towards Worf. It seemed like he had a beef with Klingons, which would make sense if he was a Starfleet officer from that era. But as it turns out, he's from a place that has nothing to do with Klingons, so why is he so pissy towards Worf particularly?
The thing with O'Brien's entity being weird and confused might be because he was from a species that was quite different from humanoids, so the nature of human relationships and reproduction might be alien to him.
I really wish that we had known more about what the aliens were really like. The one possessing Data sounds super interesting, although he would have been even more so if he really was a Starfleet ghost; it's so interesting to imagine how a Starfleet officer, even in the "Enterprise" era, could have had that huge a chip on his shoulder, not just toward Worf (though that would make sense that he's particularly hate a Klingon), but toward everybody. I kinda want to actually get that character, a Starfleet security person who's borderline psychotic, and enrolled in the interplanetary pseudo-military specifically as an outlet for his constant rage (kinda like Suder over on Voyager, but with a vicious emotionally unstable bully rather than a cold-blooded assassin).
I didn't remember this episode from back in the day very well, but watching it this week, I enjoyed it tremendously, mostly because of the music. Jay Chattaway may be "a composer who follows orders", but he wasn't going full Berman in this episode; he did a really amazing job of putting a swelling martial beat behind the three-man army as they charge through the ship's corridors, crashing through forcefields or scaring the crew away from their hostages. I absolutely loved those scenes, and the show's core climax (the hostage scenario) is quite engaging.
I don't know if you still check these given how old the video is and how famous you are. But thank you so much for everything you do sir.
Finally, I've caught up to to the the TNG Ruminations to the start of our modern day year of hell. BTW. I'm watching these in 2021 and you still have a few episodes to go, so you didn't quite make it.
The plot is a “What if?” that’s full of holes, but it’s forgivable since it’s an opportunity to let the actors stretch, and for us to enjoy their talents.
So it’s acceptable if it’s entertaining storytelling and performance.
I agree I would have loved to see Sirtis use her lovely natural Hackney accent. 🇬🇧
We've had a few episodes recently where I've got about half way through and remembered what happens. Not a bad episode but I probably would have enjoyed it more first time round.
Actually, I liked this episode. For the tawdry reason that I enjoyed Data, O'Brien, and Troi being cold and ruthless villains, albeit possessed. Also, I just loved the introduction of Starfleet history in the form of the Daedalus-class.
Time code 5:50. The Academy Award for Random Episode Which Introduced a Surprising Amount of Cannon goes to.......The Price, season 3. That episode off-handedly introduced: wormholes, the quadrants of the galaxy, and a de-facto official speed for warp drive. Accidentally making this episode the de-facto secret prequel for both DS9 and Voyager.
The only decision that would have possibly made more sense than exchanging Picard for 5 wounded hostages would have been trying for sending Riker or Ro, who weren't needed for the planned countermeasures and might be able to fight better if that ended up being the solution.
And no, they didn't fool me for a second about being Starfleet officers.
First time the writers thought of using the transporters in the shuttle craft.
My head cannon on why the energy brings would die if blown into space is energy. The energy brings need a steady stream of energy to maintain 'cohesion' and the storms on the planet do provide that. There is also plenty of biological and, in datas case technological, energy to sustain them. In space no such energy (well radiation and such but I assume that will not work for them) but again this is my head cannon and I do not think it was intentional in the writing. I do like this episode though.
And great reviews as usual. Keep them up.
While this episode of Lore's show is otherwise unremarkable, his fake technobabble is some of the awesomest nonsense I've ever heard. I kind of want a clip of just that bit of this Rumination, to use as a meme on chat boards and such.
While agree with nearly everything you said I do have to disagree with your analysis of Worf’s performance. You made it seem that he was just flat out incompetent, only grazing them and achieving nothing. The episode clearly showed that the stun setting wasn’t actually affecting the 3. Every single hostage taker was hit and the most they did was stumble. Data was hit right in his chest and didn’t even move. Worf even later in the episode tried to tell the bridge that phasers in stun have no effect on them so Riker’s plan of a wide beam stun setting wouldn’t work. Basically what I’m trying to say in this long rambling way, if they weren’t possessed Worf would have actually succeeded in taking them all down. I will point out it’s never explained why the stun setting has no affect on them but that was what the episode was showing.
This was the episode that got me into the show in the first place. The first episode I saw. I was young, it had plenty of action, and was interesting to me as a kid.
It's definitely not the best ... It was enough to reel me in.
I don't agree with your views a lot of the time, but I enjoy your presentation and thank you for the videos.
Fake Troi Has nothing on Fleet Captain Garth.. Pardon... Lord Garth, formally of Izar.
Slash, Buzz, and Slugger? I don't get the reference.
The reason that this show probably seems weak to Lore and other similar "nitpickers", for lack of a better term, is because they're taking more into account from other episodes than they should, and because the makers of the show moved in that direction more than they needed to in the first place. We wouldn't have to show Riker and Geordi failing to stop the transporters if there were no transporters; we wouldn't be criticizing Worf's failure with the phasers if we didn't have so much established power behind both Worf and the phasers. If this was an episode in Season 1 when the show was first coming out, and the fans of the show didn't know what the 24th-century Enterprise and its crew actually had the ability to do, then it might have been easier to construct an effective hostage situation.
The Three Stooges of Space Ghost Evil .
Mem-summary: Alien entities take over the minds of Data, Troi, and Miles O'Brien (and claim to be members of the crew of a vessel that had vanished. They behave a bit eccentric though.)
The TNG episode I've never seen
Just the one?
Disembodied spirits of Humans? "Harumph!", I say! What a ludicrous notion. That can't possibly be the case. Disembodied spirits of aliens? Oh, well, of course!
A rather lack-luster episode brought down by the three main villains. These entities aren't good villain material. They aren't credible, threatening, or intimidating. I wouldn't even go so far as to say they're competent. Ultimately, they're the worst thing villains can be.... annoying.
Let's examine their plan. Apparently the original plan was for Evil-Troi to convince Picard to voluntary move the ship to the Southern Polar region. Okay, fine so far. Then, Evil-Data, with absolutely no discernible motive, decides to take matters into his own hands and attempts to force the Bridge Crew to move the ship, thereby completely ruining the plan. Good grief, Evil-Troi even scolds him for it as they leave the Bridge! They then decide to take hostages in Ten-Forward while pretending to be the ghosts of the Essex crew. Um, okay. The whole "ghost" plan might have worked if they weren't, you know, taking hostages - or if Evil-Data wasn't acting like a sadist with A.D.H.D. Seriously, these people are not competent. And it all makes Evil-Troi look less like an intelligent leader and more like a moron who is flying by the seat of her (his?) pants.
Ultimately, all three are simply blunt, coarse, stupid, and not charismatic in the slightest. Evil-Troi is mostly just dull. Evil-O'Brien waffles between being dim-witted and unappealing (seriously, did we really have to have Keiko be put in what can only be called a near-rape scene - damn, what was uncomfortable!). And Evil-Data.... well, he's the worst offender of them all. Why was he made to be so brutal? From his needless attempt to take over the Bridge, to his pounding on the Ops Console, to him non-nonchalantly smashing a viewscreen in the corridor for no reason, to his glee at shooting people in Ten-Forward, to his borderline obsession with picking a fight with Worf, to his inability to tolerate two people talking, to his anger over Molly's crying, to his chocking of Picard even after the rescue attempt has failed.... I could go on but I trust my point is made. He's so over-the-top that it's farcical - especially given the fact that the three of them are trying to pass themselves off as poor, suffering souls just looking for an escape from their purgatory.
Some good procedural stuff with the rest of the Bridge Crew and good directing elevate the episode slightly.
4/10
I freaking HATED this episode. Far too many plot conveniences for the enemy. Would rather pluck out my eyes than re-watch.
I told that Season 5 onwards is worse than Season 1 and 2.
Season 5 onwards has more meh, but it is hardly outright offensive. (Code of Honor, Justice, The Child to name some of the ones that are objectively awful.) Bad writing doesn't trump offensive or abhorrent writing in my opinion.
You were misinformed. Most of my favorite episodes are in seasons 5 and 6.