Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S3E21: Hollow Pursuit
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
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It is extraordinary that Deanna did not pick up the emotional maelstrom Barclay must have been experiencing during their little counselling session. Sure, she sensed him being intimidated, but what about all the other stuff, the fear, the sexual attraction, the embarrassment, the shame, etc.? The man must have been wishing that a black hole would open up and pull him into oblivion right there and then.
She's probably use to the sexual attraction from guys on the ship. She probably senses it it from me now every time I watch an episode.
To be fair she's a terrible shrink...
Is she, when we see her do Theraphy, she seems to be very good at it.
Barclay's emotions ARE a black hole. That's his secret superpower; even the Ferengi become readable in his presence by sheer contrast with him. :)
@@firepowerg Well how good would you be at your job, if you had magical doing-your-job powers that came automatically with no effort? You'd never learn how to be a good welder if your mutant power was to fuse pieces of metal together with a touch.
The scene where Picard calls Barclay Broccoli is horrifically realistic.
What got me was Riker's immediate reaction of surprise followed by amusement.
you can almost sense there were some real issues on the set as well as In Universe
Come on! The Picard "Broccoli" scene is brilliant!
Your're right though Dwight Schultz is great.
I always figured that scene was the result of the old problem of "Don't say Broccoli, don't say Broccoli, don't say Broccoli ..." going through his head, so of course he said it.
Larry King wrote about having the same sort of problem when early in his career he had an bakery ad to read that said "For the best in bread", and he accidentally reversed it into "For the breast in bed", and then he was concentrating on avoiding the error so much the second time that he said it again!
Yes he is and this is a very funny ep too!
Have to say too that I love data's reaction in that scene
A shame Picard wasn't faster on his feet - he could have had Barclay walking away from that conversation thinking, "Well, if the Captain can forget a name, maybe it's not so bad if I do it."
I do find Picard a very good leader in this episode but I also find it kind of amusing since we do see on numerous occasions how he struggles to deal with situations where he is facing someone who annoys him.
When I was in high school and college, yes I would use the holodeck to vent. Now days? I'd just use it to escape the world.
It’s Riker’s behaviour that strikes as the most jarring - as first officer, for him to call Barclay Broccoli is effectively condoning bullying.
My fav Troi line has always been "Muzzle it"!!!
I never really know how I feel about Barkley episodes. I can relate to the idea of social anxiety. I have very poor eyesight and no facial recognition software. I grew up in a very rural area where everyone knows everyone (except me because from one meeting to the next I don’t know who I’m talking to). It didn’t garner any sympathy in my growing up. I had to be comfortable with being very introverted because people thought I was so stuck up (for my eyesight issues, plus some other things out of my control).
I used to sit alone in my room imagining I was in Star Trek. So maybe this character portrayal hit too close to home for me. I still have immense difficulty in social situations.
The thing I’ve heard said is that Barkley is actually the most heroic character in Starfleet. The premise being that the Enterprise senior staff being very... immovable? Wrong word, but the idea that the main characters are presented as being so competent and stable such that nothing really affects them beyond a single episode. But Barkley struggles but still keeps going, and he’s still very competent. It’s human.
One of the very few times that they showcase the idea that a not main character was actually competent. Usually Trek portrays incidental characters as incompetent to highlight the alleged competence of the main crew. It’s kind of like how Bill Ross bucked the trend of “Starfleet Admirals are obviously wrong”.
I did like the Wesley realizing his mistake re Barkley. A bit of personal growth from the Disney kind effect he had early on.
I’m not sure how to feel about the idea of creating people I know. Especially re the potential sexual component. I guess it hinges on the idea that people have choosing rights on how their likeness is used. I think it’d be definitely walking a line. I can’t imagine many people being ok with a sex program using their likeness.
It is always funny how often the characters just stroll along normally when in a dire situation.
This is a great episode and Barclay's a great character. I also very much related to him when it comes to crippling social anxiety,
Barclay: Commander Riker, how could you invade my privacy like that??
Riker: What's a "privacy"?
I can also relate to barkley, esp at the time of this episode. And now only lately - 30 years later, after much fear-facing, have I been confident enough to fully overcome social awkwardness.
One of the best episodes obviously. Top 10
So much to write about, have to choose a few or i'll just be TL:DR
Picard's Broccoli moment. You know when you have that one word you can't say so it's stuck in your head and then you say it, I think Picard was self conscience about that, hence the slip up. And I love Data trying to explain it away and -- for once -- getting the hint not to as he slowly turns back to the science station.
The Engineers having drinks in 10 forward. When his glass started leaking I didn't see the finger indents as the problem when I was a kid, I just figured that's how the glass was for the comfort of the customer. Because as a kid that's just what I had come to expect from Star Trek, ergonomically designed drinking glasses.
Barclay's Hands and Plants speech spoke to me as well as a kid, it nailed me also. I liked theatre as well, what needed to be said being scripted was so much easier and all I had to do was focus on the delivery. It's how I was able to sharpen my sarcastic wit and evil laugh etc . . .
Troi as the goddess of love was great, and Riker removing his shorter self. They did a good job playing Barclays version of themselves, everyone. No doubt a lot of fun on set there. Though I'm sure there would have already been regulations in place about recreating real people outside of Training simulations.
This whole episode could use a professional Psychologist to go through it and Ruminate on it too, that would be fascinating.
This was a great watch. Thank you. I loved that episode btw. So you explaining it in more detail was just great. Thank you.
>Would you vent to holographic people
Yes, in a way a lot of people already do this.
Anonymous forums, Reddit Alternate accounts and real anonymous bars specialise in what is effectively Holographic people - that you can't slug, because that'd be illegal ahaha.
One of my favourite episodes; I'm a lot like Barclay. The holodeck I find a metaphor for fantasising instead of interacting with the real world, which I'm still guilty of even today. Schultz is superb - a little touch that I enjoyed is how he flinches slightly when Geordi gives him a congratulatory slap after they save the ship. He's going to be better after this, but there's still plenty of work to do, as we see in his next episode.
I do think that Riker and Geordi act slightly out of character in the early stages. Also, you mentioned their refusal to run in the corridors even with the ship only a minute from destruction - did they even need to test their theory at all? It's not like they had a backup plan.
Minor nitpicks in an excellent episode though.
Don't forget Dwight Shultz was also in First Contact.
I loved his episode and Reg became my favourite character across all of the shows.
Lore, I know you've probably looked it up by now but the Iron Man 3 guy was Sir Ben Kingsley, who I've seen play everything from Mahatma Gandhi through to the villain in Thunderbirds.
The part that always stuck with me was Barclay, having just had the Revelation That Explains It All, saying with increasing volume, "What if, what if, WHAT IF..." - like he knows that if he takes the time to get his words together, someone else will start talking and he won't be able to interrupt. Not that I've ever tried to troubleshoot with 10 minutes to live, but that I could relate to.
Reg is a fantastic character. This episode and future ones outside of TNG really speak to the supposed nature of Starfleet if they're so incompetent as to be unable to handle someone who isn't 'Starfleet perfect' let alone even recognise that that is something that's happening. I suppose Riker puts it best where he's talking about he doesn't think Reg is Enterprise material because he doesn't fit in and act like everyone else.
I also like your analysis of Reg's 'holo-addiction' because I agree I don't think he does suffer from holo-addiction. I think he leans on the holodeck maybe a bit more than is healthy for his mental well being and he'd be well served to find other methods to deal with his problems which is part of his growth in this episode which in itself is great to see.
Finally, this episode really is one of the most damaging to Troy's rep as a councillor. The level of incompetence here is amazing, not to mention she should have been able to sense how uncomfortable everything she was doing was making him.
That potted plant line, and the fear of forgetting names and what to do with my hands. I relate so much to those. That's what I did when I was invited to a party, and it was that behavior and fear that led to me no longer being invited to parties, or not going if I was invited.
Dwight Schultz is completely underrated as an actor. I wish he'd had stuck with the acting instead of getting into radio.
I'm pretty sure he falls asleep in the holodeck and is caught by Riker and Geordie after his embarrassing encounter with counsellor Troi. It was not after the incident where Picard called him Broccoli.
It kinda took me to see him Voyager to finally start enjoying Barcley's character
@Lorerunner: Could I get a link to that "how I learned to act like I felt" video? I don't think I can manage to find it on a channel the size of yours, without having an exact name to look for.
I think this is it: th-cam.com/video/0mcZrign-PA/w-d-xo.html
As someone who had the worst nickname in high school I can totally relate to Barclay. Like the scene with Picard calling him “Broccoli” has literally happened to me for a very similar reason.
I'm disappointed Lore, you missed a golden opportunity to use the Maechen sign off.
_"And that, as they say, is that."_
Or maybe not, who knows?
I would definitely live on a holodeck, and I’m surprised that there aren’t apartment buildings of holodecks.
Imagine being able to have a luxury apartment, or your childhood house, or a castle with acres of land, whenever you want.
How about networked holodecks so you can sit or eat with friends and family light years away?
Barclay is one of my favorite Trek side characters, along with Kurn. There are times when I wish Barclay would have been promoted to a main cast member on another show, like O'Brien was on DS9. I'd be cool if he showed up in one of the new animated shows. Heck, Dwight Schultz has a huge vocal range, so he could do multiple roles.
When you said he "was going to do that" like Barclay had already planned to do, I think it was really an accident.
He didn't know was else to say so he replied with the first thing he thought of; which actually helped the result
I also find the idea that regular glass, invented millenia ago, is still used.
His acting, Shultz (SP), is also good like you said with the range needed for this episode.
As is all his episodes and even the movie.
Oddly enough, LaForge and Wesley aren't bad here either.
I like the engineering show a good idea.
You should write stuff like that.
With the ideas you come up with here it almost seems easy.
I think he is one of the best characters as well because I can relate to him as well.
I'm actually pleasantly charmed by the episode, and large part has to do with Dwight Schultz's range in this.
I must say that early on I actually got a Office shooter slash ~Black Mirror Star Trek nightmare senario vibe about this at the start.
It came from a more wholesome- and communal time I guess.
TBH I really hated La Forge and Riker in that episode, they just came off as high school bullies rather than professional Starfleet personnel and Wesley was the bitchy cliquey girl, I’ve got Aspergers, I have issues with reading facial language but even I could tell Barclay was shitting himself and was just a neurotic wreck but the three above were so clueless and just made the situation worse. Picard, Guinan and Troi were really the only emotionally mature characters to Barclay in the episode.
I have to agree with you, Riker and La Forge were total assholes in this episode.
I actually really like this episode because Wesley, Gordy, & Reg are my favorite TNG characters. I would have really liked to have seen some more interactions between Wesley & Reg since they are both prodigies of sorts, but where as Wesley can get pushed around because of his age and that's something easily aged out of Reg is an adult with extreme social anxiety that he constantly has to work at. An episode that focused specifically on those similarities & contrast would have been cool, but this episode does provided that to a degree and shows how Wesley has been excepted by Gordy and isn't always sensitive to Reg's struggle.
I know exactly what you're talking about about learning to project your real emotions. I'm still acting half the time. Not lying about how I feel, but I somehow never learned to project naturally. I was also shy, but I'm still introverted, though people now think I'm outgoing because I work at showing emotion. I do love Barclay. Realm of Fear is one of my all time favorite episodes to watch. This episode actually makes me uncomfortable because it hits too close to home.
I hadn't thought to comment this point and being several years old.
Hadn't struck me before.
Barclay was or was supposed to be on duty, so privacy is less if not non-existent on duty.
Off duty private time barging in on crew members or civilians is not cool. Crew quarters have doorbells for a reason.
I guess the Captain could just order that a crew member be beamed unprepared into the ready room. Now they they are in thier boxers and socks and Riker, LaForge, Picard bark at them, "Explain yourself! What's your malfunction?!"
To me this is when Star Trek started using guest stars known from other projects properly. I mean how in the world do you get Mick Fleetwood and just have him stand there in a bad costume for an episode.
I think the work that Whoopi Goldberg and Dwight Schultz worked together in was the 1989 film "The Long Walk Home", in which their characters are on opposite sides of the MLK bus boycott.
Even as a youth, I connected somewhat with Barcley. As an adult, even more so. I am that awkward person in the corner at social functions, trying to look comfortable but totally out of their element. The episode was less "mock the fans" than "fanservice". I don't think the term had either been invented, or made it across the pacific at that point though. The writers were using the fantasies as a way to express some of the fan's desires. Especially the forested one.
Oh, and loreDrink.
One of the kley things of this episode is near the end when the matter injects online anntmatter injector still locked at cuurent acceleration structural failure will occur in 30 seconds when picard says cycle power through ventral or central relays just out of the blue the way that script is written there a lot of leaders would panic under that pressure but not picard he acted the way he suppose to and made a decision as a good leader would no one questioned it.
21:51
Actually, there's someone else who's often adorable...
As I said last time this came up in a rumination, and I still stand by, so long as no-one forces me to acknowledge it, I've no problem with people using my likeness and/or personality in their private time for whatever they want to do with it. The only issue I might have is if someone is using a fake me to do something the real me would be happy to do instead.
When it comes to my own holodeck use, I'd be happy to model real people but reluctant to model actual friends or others I have significant interactions with, simply because it would get confusing keeping the two separate - and worse, the closer the two are in personality and the types of interactions I have with them. And that's before considering what might end up happening if the other person ever finds out, let alone getting to interact with the program themselves...
Barclay is awesome!
Star Trek may be set in the far future, but ran during the 90s. Not a lot of awareness of mental health issues or social anxiety back then. I would think Barclay's social anxiety would have been picked up and treated much earlier in his life/career. If he slipped through the cracks, I'd expect the ship's personnel officer Riker to be disappointed with himself, for not picking up on Barclay's issues sooner.
Yeah i get the not being very social i have joked that i don't go out to socialize i go out to pretend i can socialize. i dont have anxiety about it i just have little concern to socialize unfortunately because of that when i do actually want to socialize i really dont know how to.
3:46 that idea had never even crossed my mind until you ask about it, i mean i know people can be really nasty about some things but it never even occurred to me that it could be poking fun at anyone.
af for favourite Barclay is in my top 8 as for were he comes in the top 8 i cant say as they move around from mood to mood.
12:15 so Discovery is growing on me i wouldnt call it a star trek show but its not legends of the rangers, one thing i would say about the crew of the discovery is its a ship and show about people that dont fit in, not counting michel who i still dont like, we have Lorca who i still love, Tilly who i love in a completely different way (why can't i find a girl like that) Saru who despite been odd because he is played by Doug Jones i still like Stamets who ied have likely punched on the nose in the first episode but is now probaly my favorite character on the show (well after Tilly) then lastly we have Tyler who is also an outsider, all of them don't fit in be it been socially awkward, the only member of there race outside of their homeworld, the only member of starfleet to be court marshalled or Spoiler or Spoiler each one of them is an outsider for what we consider the norm when we think of starfleet.
21:21 i don't have to imagine that ive been there having to give the morning briefing to a team of 50 :( luckly for me im a lot better at putting on masks that Barclay is.
Take a nervous employee who is obviously uncomfortable and below at him.
Put hands on and with quiet menace WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT!
LT Broccoli your performance is unacceptable
Could somebody @ me with the name of that DS9 episode with Jeffrey Combs as the Indecent Proposal guy? I remember that scene vividly but I don't know what it's from. (And for the record, yes I would, without a second's hesitation, and including sex. It would be so much better for every layer of society that matters, if we could act out our worst impulses without actually hurting anyone.)
How do you like this episode compared to The Orville's "Primal Urges" episode with Bortus's Porn addiction on their holodeck? They certainly one up TNG on the scenarios, we only saw 1 embrace of Troi here.
I would not create co-workers. I would create fictional characters from my favorite fiction
Dude, you are freakin' hilarious, even if you aren't trying:
"Someone asked me who my favorite character on Discovery was, and I said without hesitation... ... the guy whose name I can't think of"
I think you're awesome, even if you rarely remember anyone's name. Perhaps if you knew how I am literally the definition of the opposite of a fanboy, you'd fully appreciate my remark.
Also, when you asked if many of us have experiences of feeling uncomfortable is social settings, that is, akin to Barkley trying to look comfortable while examining a potted plant, I'd have to say no almost entirely, which I may post later if I don't forget
A quirky personal episode showing the “lower decks” and the stress some must feel when faced with the (sometimes actively) intimidating ruling clique.
🚩If Riker is macho insensitive with all those who are non-normative, no wonder there is so little variety in Starfleet. If Riker bullied me like that, I would have told him to “muzzle it.”
🔸Alone at a party: I’m totally there with Reg. The trick is not to force yourself, but to pick better parties where you’ll be comfortable.
🔹Barclay didn’t really “improve” over time. But it’s not up to him to change, it’s up to others to accept him. IDIC. 🌈
I understand that the concept of neurodiversity was unknown in the 1990’s. Heck, I didn’t realize my own autism until 2010! What a liberation that was! So I forgive the show. But I’ll still get those cringy feelings when I watch this episode. It did its best to illustrate a condition whose acceptance wasn’t even yet a dream. It barely had a name (Asperger) which doesn’t even fit it properly.
🔹It’s a good thing Barclay came back to show that the “clique” did start to accept his social difference.
It saddens me to see Wesley’s behaviour, someone who should be sympathetic. Barclay is you in 20 years, Wes.
🚩Riker’s bullying (it IS!) behaviour confirms that, to him at least, Starfleet is military. And if he had touched me, I probably would have started crying. Don’t touch us without permission! Now how would have Picard reacted if Barclay had put Riker on report for physical intimidation?
Deanna, as another commenter said, should indeed have picked up on the emotional maelstrom, the sadness.
🔻How Deanna, Beverly and Barclay are treated just confirms that, in lore and behind the scenes, the Enterprise was a normative boys’ club.
It is a word now lol
I'm kinda surprised that you'd consider Lorca your favourite character in DSC cos to me he is fairly generic as a character. Tilly, Stamets and Saru are all far more interesting (Burnham may not be a Mary Sue but she does suffer a certain blandness thay main characters often do) and Tilly in particular is basically a female version of Barclay. Hope you're enjoying the show though. I know it isn't like traditional trek but I am finding it very much carrying forward the trek ideal and is hugely entertaining.
Saru is my favorite and Tilly.
Yes, I would say Tilly is my fav, and a Barclay copy
Admittedly, I usually skip the Barclay episodes because they tend to be so awkward.
This episode is such a cringe fest in the best kind of way.
Nope, not a Barclay fanboy. I see him as just another guest star, where his inability to function as a crewmember is the Problem of the Week for this episode. And while I enjoyed a couple of his later appearances - the episode where he becomes the computer, "Realm of Fear" where he's afraid of transporters, and the Season 7 episode where he turns into a spider - those are all favorite episodes of mine, but not especially because of him, and when they went so far as to keep bringing him back in later seasons of Voyager (particularly the fake Reg in "Inside Man"), I just got incredibly tired of him. I for one absolutely do believe that he was a parody of Trek fans, and I don't identify with his inept social fumbling at all, despite the fact that I have my own problems with socializing - his painful awkwardness seems like a caricature, not a legitimate portrayal, in my personal assessment.
It is fair to call this episode a deliberate slam on fans, but it is a constructive critique.
Contrast with Moffat's anti Doctor Who fan tirades that dominate everything he has done in the past decade, or current Star Wars, MCU and Star Trek aggressive hostility towards fans, and in this light the episode is both mild and positive.
broccoli is not an insult
I like broccoli
yummy
Oh yeah, Star Wars is totally hostile and entirely to blame while the fandom that repeatedly misquotes interviews, posts hate video after hate video after hate video and actively bullies actors off social media is innocent in it all. The same fandom that literally drove Jake Lloyd into a mental institution.
No.
@@gallendugall8913
Anything, and I do mean _anything_ is an insult if it's used insultingly, you total genius.
@@gallendugall8913 Broccoli is good, tasty, full of vitamins and fibers!