I can’t imagine how horrifying that fate is. Especially for the mum. She was a young woman with her husband and young daughter then she’s captured, strung up and held for years. She can feel herself ageing and then when she’s free her body and face are not her own. Her poor parents
Plus the implication that she might have dementia. Or that the years of torture were just so much that they broke her mind. Shadowheart's father is an elf, he has time to heal and time to spend with his family. He could even remarry and have more children if he wanted. Her mother's life is practically over
I mean...yeah but it's not all doom and gloom. It's Faerun after all. She is always like 1-2 sessions away from Fountain of Youth, potent rejuvenation potion, acension to godhood, becoming mindflayer, wish granting jinn or magic shroom man etc... :D :)
When you have aging parents who have been good to you. This truly hits you like an space ship. You just want them to be happy and to see you happy for their own sake.
If you *are* an aging parent who cared for aging parents it is brutal to watch her mother's dialogues. I didn't know I could intercede and get Shadowheart to save them. Next time I replay I am going to work it this way and just expect to be a bawling mess in cutscenes and dialogues.
That line Shadow has about only feeling/thinking what her goddess wanted her to hits hard when you’ve been through a religious manipulation wringer for yourself
I find it interesting that to its her elven father who rather them dead than to see shadowheart give her soul to shar even though to him his wife's and child's life is nothing more than a small blip, meanwhile her mother her at this point has spent the majority of her life in agony and is suffering from dementia would rather stay what little time she has left
I picked the option to let her decide her parents fate (it literally says "you don't need me to tell you what's right") and she turned her parents into moon notes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@RacheltheRadNether decision is wrong. If she releases her parents to moonmotes, she is free to be the ultimate (mortal) champion of Selene that she was meant to be. If she saves her parents, she finds strength in protecting them, as she declares “You’re my parents! You’re not my weakness, *You’re my strength!!!”* And that gives her the power to deliver the best insult one can give to one’s enemy; *To Be Ignored.* Nether path is wrong. The only thing that would be wrong is letting Shar get away with it and encouraging Shadowheart to slaughter her parents in her name. Shar doesn’t give a flying crap about her after that, only that she keep destroying her own life (seeing as she pretty much turns down a RO with Protag after. Not exactly, but it’s a bad hint for the future.)
Imo if u want it more romantic and what’s right letting them die peacefully is better to free shadowheart. And like someone replied above she herseld chooses that when u let her decide which is what I did.
Sad fact: if you speak to him as Shadowheart he will say that he caught up to her before the sharrans, but she became so scared of him that she ran and was caught.
TIL her dad is a werewolf, which is wild because i was going to make my paladin of selûne (doing a shadowheart romance obviously) have a werewolf dad, but now it'll look like im copying her and that's a weird vibe to bring into the relationship
@@talimancern7724Apparently, some elves are also werewolves. Like, it's a whole elf-ethnicity. What makes this tragic is that Shadowheart has an intense fear of wolves. Either the Shar cult gave her this fear so she would be even more afraid of her own father or she has distant memories of him transforming to try and save his family.
It's not true. That seems to have been thrown in as a jab against parents who oppose their children changing from male to female or vice-versa. It's more than just a name. It's not the parent alienating the child, it's the child alienating himself from his or her parent.
There's a difference. Alienation is never good. But truth is truth. Shadow heart is truly shadow heart, memory makes up who she is and as such that's her identity. She doesn't make the claim that she's no longer a half elf for example as that simply wouldn't be true. What you're alluding to is the latter not the former, and therefore not an apt comparison. We aren't helping anyone by helping them not accept the beautiful truth of who they are.
@@samuelbishop3316 I never liked that. By keeping the fake, stupid name Shar forced on her, she's letting Shar win. Jenevelle Hallowleaf should reclaim her true name if she is to reject Shar completely. Or switch to a Selunite name.
The best thing is definitely to let them become moon notes/let ShadowHeart choose. I think her parents just really want rest even when you bring them back to camp they say they need rest. Makes my heart hurt
They literally wanted to rest and are feeling a bit better after a night. Shadowheart is much happier with them around, despite the pain. And accepting the pain that comes with life and love is the ultimate fuck you to Shar.
Shadowheart can save her parents by her own choose . you just need to help her regain 3 past memory pieces before meeting her parents (however, one of them is bugged right now, can't trigger her reaction).
i let SH decide for herself and she decided to save them, i’m not sure what was different about my game. i thought she was going to choose to let them become moon notes
Letting them become moon motes is such a bad choice tbh…playing exactly into Shar’s clutches. Allowing her lessons on “loss” manifested here to further undermine her sister’s dogma. It would devastate Shadowheart. She clearly wanted to clear away from being another god’s plaything regardless of their intentions. Giving her mother a few more good years is better than simply putting her down like an animal. We are more than simply suffering. Besides, we outgrow pain. It does not get smaller, but rather we grow bigger than it.
Withers: " thy shall not rob this girl of family or love for thee has stood of to powers beyond. Shar go back to the shadows for thy shall not have her "
I had no idea she could save herself and them. I was certain she was going to die so I told her she deserves to life free. She killed them and they turned into moon motes. I was able to help her feel a bit better about the whole thing. But knowing she can save them, I will be making this part of my "wholesome perfect playthrough." Gonna try not to kill unnesicarily, gonna try to save everyone I can until the end.
Additionally to what Gabriel said, Shar will also get hold of Shadowheart’s soul, so if she dies, her soul will never be free and go back to Shar. Shar will definitely torment her more and for forever (not really wholesome end tbh) Wholesome (at least for me) is by the end of their time, they’ll see each other again in the afterlife under Selune’s hold
@@JC-wt7fm I don't know where you're getting that. Shar can hurt her, yes, but that's it and I think she's be happier baring that and having her parents. Shar has no claim on her soul, that's not how the afterlife works in Forgotten Realms, you can't forcibly claim a soul (at least not like that). Unless Shadowheart sells her soul it goes to the god she worships upon death which is now Selune.
@@jaffarebellion292 Kelemvor took that down (I think, it's a little inconsistent). But it doesn't matter, since Shadowheart converts to Selune worship shortly after she rejects Shar.
I let her choose. And she chose to save her parents which I think is a good call. Someone spoiled me at the end of story she says she's so used to Shar's curse that she really doesn't feel it that much anymore and it doesn't hinder her everyday life. I call this a major win.
I didn't know there was a way to actually save them without sacrificing herself. Maybe it was something that changed and was expanded on since I played at launch, as several things seem to have.
@@GriffinPilgrim I should've clarified. I thought in my initial run at launch that if Shadowheart were to 'sacrifice' herself she would be lost as a party member and trade places or something. She already suffers from the pain, so while it's not a true complete win, it is a far better compromise than I initially expected.
If you let her decide without influence, she lets them die, but I wasn’t there to win, I was there to make friends, so I was like “no??? Save them?????!!!!!” And she did and everyone was happy
I think saving them is the better option. Shadowheart still had the power of Selune all along and was able to free them. She looks surprised that it actually worked. It was actually possible to save them, but Shar’s cronies tried to trick her
I really don't know how to feel about that part. In my playthrough, I basically just went "ask them" and it resulted in her letting her parents go. One one hand, I think this is on paper the ending that makes the most sense. The Lady of Loss trying to inflict it on Shadowheart to break her, instead seeing an act of true parental love unfold, as the parents let go so that their daughter may live free. Their sacrifice not painful after decades of torture, but eased by Selûne herself. It's immensely tragic, but poetic in a way, and Shadowheart does find peace in it. On the other hand, the in-game consequences of her saving her parents and bearing the curse are non-existant other than through some dialogue. And from what I've read, the pain basically fades as years go by. I'm glad she can have a happier ending even though I didn't get it, but it feels like a cop-out.
The Shadowheart quest decision is really interesting to me because I feel like they are both "the good ending." There are pros and cons to either decision. If she spares them, she goes on living with the pain of Shar but she gets to have her family back. And they get a second chance at life after such terrible torment (kind of like Astarion). Or she can be truly free of Shar, and without her parents' guidance, she is completely free to decide her future and her own values. It feels like an actual meaningful choice for an RPG. I also thought it was interesting that in my game where I had her kill the Nightsong, she chose to save her parents.
I always let shadowheart choose on her own so I haven't seen this side of things. I'm honestly surprised that this whole thing turned out to be pretty good. I expected some serious Shar shenanigans if the parents lived, but it looks like its all fine and dandy.
The caveat is that Shadowheart still suffers the pain of Shar's curse. But, as of the epilogue, it is mentioned that her pain lessens to a more manageable degree.
If Jergal can get involved in fate with the dread 3 mucking about, then why can't Selune counter decades of Shar torturing mortals? I think we need a 4-way Zoom call here, Tav, SH, Jergal and Selune and work something out!
Selune and Shar are two sides of the same coin.....They are Sisters of light and dark and cannot, themselves, interfere in the affairs on the Material Planes. After the Time of Troubles, Ao decreed that no Deity could go to the Mortal Plane of Existence to interfere with Mortal lives, so this is why they use Mortal Agents to do the dirty work for them.
Because Jergal can only have influence til some point. My guess is that, as he says, he has been put there to serve the player, and I like to think that he was literally put there By the Dungeon Master/Larian studios just to facilitate solving things like a member of the party dying, Hirelings and giving some plot armor to the Dark urge.
This was not true for me. I fully romanced her selune path. Found the grave, smells of the city, graphiti and she still chose to sacrafice them. Also gave her noblestalk night orchid etc.
The right thing is probably to save them. In Shadowheart's romance ending, if you choose to let her let them go, she cries and expresses that she would have accepted the chronic pain so she could have them in her life. I don't know how happy she is in the romance ending where you did convince her to save them, though.
I would say allowing her parents to go. Allow Shadowheart to finally be free of the fake loss that come with shar. Yes it’ll be replaced by the loss of her parents but she can finally own that loss, remember it, move with it. Shar takes this away and, by extension, a vital part of being mortal.
@@defiant3752There's a reason the choice is locked behind a DC,to save her parents,most right choices are locked behind a DC. You'd fall for Shar's trap if you sacrifice the parents. One of her teachings says "Embrace loss to forget the pain". Shar considers you,in Jaheira words,mortals,weak and succeptible to pain,by defying Shar's plan you severe anything she had to do with you. From the caring mother she believes to be,to a literal pain in the butt. A fitting end for a monster and the only way she'll make you remember her,is by pain and hatred.
@keenansweeeney187 Well if you don't mind spoilers read below. She actually ends up quite happy. She has a farmhouse with animals, who Tav happily helps look after whenever she travels. She still gets that pain in her hand, but she doesn't let it bother her. She shrugs it off and continues to be happy. Her parents are in her life now and she seems to be content with her decision to save them
@@mcmewsen That's just in the short term though. She is a half-elf and will live a very long life. Her mother is about to pass away and while her father may live a long time also as an elf, he will pass away centuries before she does probably. If you romance her as anything but a similarly long lived being you will pass on way before her as well. Then all she will have left is the chronic pain, which has been described as so bad at times it stops her from getting restful sleep and also dampens her ability to feel and express emotions. How will she cope in the centuries of her life she'll have to live alone with the pain?
I just got to this part last night. They were turned into moon moats. I'm about to reload my saved and redo all my respecs, just to get this scene now. Thank you!
I chose to do two saves, one to save her parents, and one to free them. When I’m done with her parents being dead playthrough, I’m going to go back to where they were alive so I can finish the playthrough will all of them.
The gods have a lot of limitations in DnD to do something about most of things (ngl frustrating at times when playing) But I liked Gale’s explanation, that gods need permission of Ao (who is like the god of gods) “Because divine intervention is usually more troublesome than helpful”
As if Shar got permission to essentially order to kidnap and brainwash a child and then inflict all manner of torment on those poor souls…Ao is an EVIL god. Not neutral…notice how most of the “good” aligned gods cannot do shit while the evil ones have free reign over the place?
Why do you assume she could? You literally know shar is her twin so with that line of logic you would immediately think "why doesn't she kill her evil twin sister?" And then obviously surmise she can't. There's a lot of things gods can't do.
She's been in Shar's captivity for four decades, we know that. Throw on how young she looks in the memory and she's likely around 50. That's Half-Elves for you.
Anyone understand why I got to this point and the option to persuade her and save her parents didn’t show up? The exact same thing happened to me with astarion in his quest. Idk what I’m doing wrong :/
Her forgetting is not the curse, that was an effect from a magical artefact, the pain from the mark on her hand is the curse. And, it being a divine curse, it's nigh impossible to break.
Maybe you are missing a dialogue with someone to finish the quest line and having them at your camp. It happened to me with Thaniel because I didn’t talk to Halsin or something like that.
Yes and no really. So much of the world is so backward and awful. It would be nice to think there was an entity you could convince to give you the power to change things. "It would be nice to think that X" is why religions exist at all, I guess. Also the world is just boring, and the older I get, the more predictable it gets. I could go for a good cataclysm right about now.
I remember when I did this there was a option to let Shadowheart choose, she killed them. If you give Karlach the choice, she opts to become a soulless illithid. If you let Astarion choose his fate, he becomes a monstrous ascended... It seems like the message Larian is trying to send here is that free will is bad, and only you can make the best choices for people. Bane would approve.
When you let Shadowheart choose whether or not to kill Aylin, she spares her. We make all kinds of choices, for good or for ill. I think the best message you can take away from it is that it's important to keep good council around you.
@@jaffarebellion292 the nightsong choice depends on your approval with her/wether or not Tav is still alive after the Balthazar fight, high to exceptional approval Shadowheart will spare nightsong, low approval Shadowheart will kill nightsong… if Tav is dead after the Balthazar fight I believe Shadowheart will kill nightsong regardless of your approval, I believe this choice is dependent on finding some things in Baldurs gate, but I can’t personally confirm that
@@Foodisgood Because that isn't a choice. That's like saying you can have 10 dollars or 100 dollars. Its the veneer of a choice. If it was Shadowheart or her family then that's a choice.
@@phenom568 Isn't the catch that not only Shadowheart will live in pain if you save her parents, but also her soul will go to Shar and be tortured for eternity? I think that pretty much *is* Shadowheart vs her parents
@@phenom568 That is not an equivalent example, but regardless it is still a choice, Shadowheart had two objectives going into this mission, rescue her parents and finally rid herself of Shar's influence, she can only choose one of those to achieve.
This is not the best ending for Shadowheart, Shar will continue to persecute her even in death, she must choose the Selunite way to save herself and her parents... in fact, if you let her choose, she knows what's the right thing to do.
No she won't. Shar has no claim on her soul as she doesn't worship her. All the mark does is hurt her not grant shar ownership of her soul. Even if it did it wouldn't be impossible to get rid of it.
It's D&D, a curse that causes pain isn't a big deal. Gale can become a God, I'm sure he can get rid of it. Plus in SH's ending where she keeps her parents she says that Shar isn't giving her pain as often. She's losing interest.
@@VDA19 Which makes sense; Shar can be small minded at times but ultimately she's a rather more far sighted deity than the likes of the Dead Three. Petty revenge was gonna get old for her eventually.
@@GriffinPilgrim To add to this, I'm relatively certain the wound was originally a means to prevent her from beginning to regain her memories. The pain crops up when ever something that would remind her of her past life crops up, like the Selune statue, a wolf ect. Once she has truly lost the battle and Shadowheart has renounced Shar, the whole point of the wound lost it purpose and now just serves as spite. She'll lose interest in that eventually.
@@neisan92 I don't think that's it, at least not all of it. It does punish her for thinking about her lost memories but it also sparks off at times when she shows compassion to others or enjoys watching the PC do so. It's more of a general attempt at Pavlovian conditioning to keep Shadowheart from doing anything Shar disapproves of. Though again, as you say, once that fails the only point left is petty spite and Shar has better things to do after a time.
I can’t imagine how horrifying that fate is. Especially for the mum. She was a young woman with her husband and young daughter then she’s captured, strung up and held for years. She can feel herself ageing and then when she’s free her body and face are not her own.
Her poor parents
Plus the implication that she might have dementia. Or that the years of torture were just so much that they broke her mind. Shadowheart's father is an elf, he has time to heal and time to spend with his family. He could even remarry and have more children if he wanted. Her mother's life is practically over
I mean...yeah but it's not all doom and gloom. It's Faerun after all. She is always like 1-2 sessions away from Fountain of Youth, potent rejuvenation potion, acension to godhood, becoming mindflayer, wish granting jinn or magic shroom man etc... :D :)
@@XmatuliXLPI wonder if a noblestalk could help her in any way, guess it’s time for another trip into the underdark.
That’s why I chose to save em, it’s not just SH it’s her parents, I was super sad when I heard her mom say “I wanted more children but that’s gone”
@@rosesweetcharlotteshe seems to be fine with SH, if that’s anything
The fact Selune didnt step in to just remove the curse either way was criminal. If Shar can bypass rules to curse someone, surely Selune can remove it
I'm pretty sure selune abandoned her daughter (i saw a thumbnail with it saying that) so she ain't THAT great of a goddess either.
Man, all the voice actors in this game are just unbelievably good.
Larian won in every way
Except for when they speak Latin, then they are very goofy
If you have aging parents this will hit you harder than a truck.
Why'd you have to speak the words into existence bro 😭
As someone who has lost a father to cancer, I think about my mother and grandma and felt this shit slammed into me like a god damned freight train
When you have aging parents who have been good to you. This truly hits you like an space ship. You just want them to be happy and to see you happy for their own sake.
Why?
If you *are* an aging parent who cared for aging parents it is brutal to watch her mother's dialogues. I didn't know I could intercede and get Shadowheart to save them. Next time I replay I am going to work it this way and just expect to be a bawling mess in cutscenes and dialogues.
That line Shadow has about only feeling/thinking what her goddess wanted her to hits hard when you’ve been through a religious manipulation wringer for yourself
I find it interesting that to its her elven father who rather them dead than to see shadowheart give her soul to shar even though to him his wife's and child's life is nothing more than a small blip, meanwhile her mother her at this point has spent the majority of her life in agony and is suffering from dementia would rather stay what little time she has left
Oh. Oh no... I didn't know you could save them.
😟
I picked the option to let her decide her parents fate (it literally says "you don't need me to tell you what's right") and she turned her parents into moon notes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@RacheltheRadNether decision is wrong. If she releases her parents to moonmotes, she is free to be the ultimate (mortal) champion of Selene that she was meant to be.
If she saves her parents, she finds strength in protecting them, as she declares “You’re my parents! You’re not my weakness, *You’re my strength!!!”* And that gives her the power to deliver the best insult one can give to one’s enemy; *To Be Ignored.*
Nether path is wrong. The only thing that would be wrong is letting Shar get away with it and encouraging Shadowheart to slaughter her parents in her name. Shar doesn’t give a flying crap about her after that, only that she keep destroying her own life (seeing as she pretty much turns down a RO with Protag after. Not exactly, but it’s a bad hint for the future.)
Imo if u want it more romantic and what’s right letting them die peacefully is better to free shadowheart. And like someone replied above she herseld chooses that when u let her decide which is what I did.
Larian oh my god just *let me hug her*
Thanks to patch six, you can 🙂
@@craigfolgers6717 FINALLY-no, thank you, larian, i appreciate this from the bottom of my charred little heart
I hugged her at that selune cutscene but i didn’t have her parents saved
ohhh she was scared of wolves because her dad was lycanthrope. he went crazy trying to protect his family and she got scared of him :O
Sad fact: if you speak to him as Shadowheart he will say that he caught up to her before the sharrans, but she became so scared of him that she ran and was caught.
"Only a fool would alienate their child over a name." Well done Larian.
TIL her dad is a werewolf, which is wild because i was going to make my paladin of selûne (doing a shadowheart romance obviously) have a werewolf dad, but now it'll look like im copying her and that's a weird vibe to bring into the relationship
I don't think he's a werewolf, he can just take a wild shape like druids
@@TS-si4zzhe’s a lycanthrope. He confirms it in dialogue after you rescue them from Shar.
@@TS-si4zzhe is. he's a Lythari.
He is an elf. What are you even talking about?
@@talimancern7724Apparently, some elves are also werewolves. Like, it's a whole elf-ethnicity. What makes this tragic is that Shadowheart has an intense fear of wolves. Either the Shar cult gave her this fear so she would be even more afraid of her own father or she has distant memories of him transforming to try and save his family.
"Only a fool would alienate his child over a name". This is true now more than ever. Brilliantly put.
Right! The underlying statement is there.
I know! I dead ass started tearing up a little when I heard that! why does a videogame character get to have better parents than me!
It's not true. That seems to have been thrown in as a jab against parents who oppose their children changing from male to female or vice-versa. It's more than just a name. It's not the parent alienating the child, it's the child alienating himself from his or her parent.
There's a difference. Alienation is never good. But truth is truth.
Shadow heart is truly shadow heart, memory makes up who she is and as such that's her identity. She doesn't make the claim that she's no longer a half elf for example as that simply wouldn't be true.
What you're alluding to is the latter not the former, and therefore not an apt comparison. We aren't helping anyone by helping them not accept the beautiful truth of who they are.
@@samuelbishop3316 I never liked that. By keeping the fake, stupid name Shar forced on her, she's letting Shar win. Jenevelle Hallowleaf should reclaim her true name if she is to reject Shar completely. Or switch to a Selunite name.
The best thing is definitely to let them become moon notes/let ShadowHeart choose. I think her parents just really want rest even when you bring them back to camp they say they need rest. Makes my heart hurt
They literally wanted to rest and are feeling a bit better after a night. Shadowheart is much happier with them around, despite the pain. And accepting the pain that comes with life and love is the ultimate fuck you to Shar.
Shadowheart can save her parents by her own choose . you just need to help her regain 3 past memory pieces before meeting her parents (however, one of them is bugged right now, can't trigger her reaction).
i let SH decide for herself and she decided to save them, i’m not sure what was different about my game. i thought she was going to choose to let them become moon notes
@@Sixgirlss you helped her regain memory pieces from the past, that's why.
Letting them become moon motes is such a bad choice tbh…playing exactly into Shar’s clutches. Allowing her lessons on “loss” manifested here to further undermine her sister’s dogma. It would devastate Shadowheart. She clearly wanted to clear away from being another god’s plaything regardless of their intentions. Giving her mother a few more good years is better than simply putting her down like an animal. We are more than simply suffering. Besides, we outgrow pain. It does not get smaller, but rather we grow bigger than it.
Withers: " thy shall not rob this girl of family or love for thee has stood of to powers beyond. Shar go back to the shadows for thy shall not have her "
How do you get that dialogue?
@@AMcGrath82 I made it up I thought this is what he would say
This is the only scene in the game that made me openly weep.
I had no idea she could save herself and them. I was certain she was going to die so I told her she deserves to life free. She killed them and they turned into moon motes. I was able to help her feel a bit better about the whole thing. But knowing she can save them, I will be making this part of my "wholesome perfect playthrough." Gonna try not to kill unnesicarily, gonna try to save everyone I can until the end.
Sadly not perfect. If her parents are saved, shar keeps tormenting her with the wound In her hand for the rest of her life
Additionally to what Gabriel said, Shar will also get hold of Shadowheart’s soul, so if she dies, her soul will never be free and go back to Shar. Shar will definitely torment her more and for forever (not really wholesome end tbh)
Wholesome (at least for me) is by the end of their time, they’ll see each other again in the afterlife under Selune’s hold
@@JC-wt7fm I don't know where you're getting that. Shar can hurt her, yes, but that's it and I think she's be happier baring that and having her parents. Shar has no claim on her soul, that's not how the afterlife works in Forgotten Realms, you can't forcibly claim a soul (at least not like that). Unless Shadowheart sells her soul it goes to the god she worships upon death which is now Selune.
@@GriffinPilgrim I'm pretty sure she doesn't worship any god now. Wouldn't she go to the Wall of the Faithless?
@@jaffarebellion292 Kelemvor took that down (I think, it's a little inconsistent). But it doesn't matter, since Shadowheart converts to Selune worship shortly after she rejects Shar.
I let her choose. And she chose to save her parents which I think is a good call.
Someone spoiled me at the end of story she says she's so used to Shar's curse that she really doesn't feel it that much anymore and it doesn't hinder her everyday life.
I call this a major win.
Yeah but that means that when shadowheart dies her soul will go to shars domain
I didn't know there was a way to actually save them without sacrificing herself. Maybe it was something that changed and was expanded on since I played at launch, as several things seem to have.
There isn't, Shadowheart is still cursed with intermittent pain from Shar's mark on her. She just decides to live with that for her parent's sake.
@@GriffinPilgrim I should've clarified. I thought in my initial run at launch that if Shadowheart were to 'sacrifice' herself she would be lost as a party member and trade places or something. She already suffers from the pain, so while it's not a true complete win, it is a far better compromise than I initially expected.
If you let her decide without influence, she lets them die, but I wasn’t there to win, I was there to make friends, so I was like “no??? Save them?????!!!!!” And she did and everyone was happy
If you save them you can live on a farm with her and her parents. Pretty good ending imo
@@JackMeoff46 But then her soul will return to Shar. And Shar will torment he soul for all eternity.
@@Dak1624 No it won’t. But assuming that was possible, it could happen anyway, because Shar and Selune have equal claim to each other’s stuff.
I think saving them is the better option. Shadowheart still had the power of Selune all along and was able to free them. She looks surprised that it actually worked. It was actually possible to save them, but Shar’s cronies tried to trick her
I really don't know how to feel about that part. In my playthrough, I basically just went "ask them" and it resulted in her letting her parents go. One one hand, I think this is on paper the ending that makes the most sense. The Lady of Loss trying to inflict it on Shadowheart to break her, instead seeing an act of true parental love unfold, as the parents let go so that their daughter may live free. Their sacrifice not painful after decades of torture, but eased by Selûne herself. It's immensely tragic, but poetic in a way, and Shadowheart does find peace in it. On the other hand, the in-game consequences of her saving her parents and bearing the curse are non-existant other than through some dialogue. And from what I've read, the pain basically fades as years go by. I'm glad she can have a happier ending even though I didn't get it, but it feels like a cop-out.
The Shadowheart quest decision is really interesting to me because I feel like they are both "the good ending." There are pros and cons to either decision. If she spares them, she goes on living with the pain of Shar but she gets to have her family back. And they get a second chance at life after such terrible torment (kind of like Astarion). Or she can be truly free of Shar, and without her parents' guidance, she is completely free to decide her future and her own values. It feels like an actual meaningful choice for an RPG. I also thought it was interesting that in my game where I had her kill the Nightsong, she chose to save her parents.
I always let shadowheart choose on her own so I haven't seen this side of things. I'm honestly surprised that this whole thing turned out to be pretty good. I expected some serious Shar shenanigans if the parents lived, but it looks like its all fine and dandy.
The caveat is that Shadowheart still suffers the pain of Shar's curse. But, as of the epilogue, it is mentioned that her pain lessens to a more manageable degree.
If Jergal can get involved in fate with the dread 3 mucking about, then why can't Selune counter decades of Shar torturing mortals? I think we need a 4-way Zoom call here, Tav, SH, Jergal and Selune and work something out!
Selune and Shar are two sides of the same coin.....They are Sisters of light and dark and cannot, themselves, interfere in the affairs on the Material Planes. After the Time of Troubles, Ao decreed that no Deity could go to the Mortal Plane of Existence to interfere with Mortal lives, so this is why they use Mortal Agents to do the dirty work for them.
Because Jergal can only have influence til some point.
My guess is that, as he says, he has been put there to serve the player, and I like to think that he was literally put there By the Dungeon Master/Larian studios just to facilitate solving things like a member of the party dying, Hirelings and giving some plot armor to the Dark urge.
Jergal controls the Aspect of DEATH.....
The gods are cunts who rarely help or intervene--especially the good ones. The evil gods tend to involve themselves a bit more
Cause selune is still a god and, surprise surprise, all gods are shit
dammit. i let her decide herself and she choose to let them go. now im confused which option is better.
I did that too and I think they're both satisfying enough. We didn't get to see the negative repercussions here, that she's still cursed by Shar.
Shadowheart decides to save them if you trigger her memories returning by exploring the city.
This was not true for me. I fully romanced her selune path. Found the grave, smells of the city, graphiti and she still chose to sacrafice them. Also gave her noblestalk night orchid etc.
Well now I don't know if the right thing is to let them pass or not...
The right thing is probably to save them. In Shadowheart's romance ending, if you choose to let her let them go, she cries and expresses that she would have accepted the chronic pain so she could have them in her life.
I don't know how happy she is in the romance ending where you did convince her to save them, though.
I would say allowing her parents to go. Allow Shadowheart to finally be free of the fake loss that come with shar. Yes it’ll be replaced by the loss of her parents but she can finally own that loss, remember it, move with it. Shar takes this away and, by extension, a vital part of being mortal.
@@defiant3752There's a reason the choice is locked behind a DC,to save her parents,most right choices are locked behind a DC.
You'd fall for Shar's trap if you sacrifice the parents.
One of her teachings says "Embrace loss to forget the pain".
Shar considers you,in Jaheira words,mortals,weak and succeptible to pain,by defying Shar's plan you severe anything she had to do with you.
From the caring mother she believes to be,to a literal pain in the butt.
A fitting end for a monster and the only way she'll make you remember her,is by pain and hatred.
@keenansweeeney187 Well if you don't mind spoilers read below.
She actually ends up quite happy. She has a farmhouse with animals, who Tav happily helps look after whenever she travels. She still gets that pain in her hand, but she doesn't let it bother her. She shrugs it off and continues to be happy. Her parents are in her life now and she seems to be content with her decision to save them
@@mcmewsen That's just in the short term though. She is a half-elf and will live a very long life. Her mother is about to pass away and while her father may live a long time also as an elf, he will pass away centuries before she does probably. If you romance her as anything but a similarly long lived being you will pass on way before her as well. Then all she will have left is the chronic pain, which has been described as so bad at times it stops her from getting restful sleep and also dampens her ability to feel and express emotions. How will she cope in the centuries of her life she'll have to live alone with the pain?
being a thief I feel like I've stolen sh heart but knowing she thinks that she used some trick to steal mine I shed 1 tear
She should have at least taken her last name back.
This makes me think of leela and her parents from futurama
I figured something bad would happen to them if you rescued them. This is a surprisingly a happy ending.
So I've got a vampire companion and this has told me Lycanthropy is in the game..... WHY CANT I BE A WEREWOLF!?!?!?! lmao *flips table* lol
I just got to this part last night. They were turned into moon moats. I'm about to reload my saved and redo all my respecs, just to get this scene now. Thank you!
I chose to do two saves, one to save her parents, and one to free them. When I’m done with her parents being dead playthrough, I’m going to go back to where they were alive so I can finish the playthrough will all of them.
Both the Religion check and the Persuasion check are 20 rolls and I have zero inspiration or buffs.
Ur in act 3 and have nothing???
@@zereishere9682barbarian no brain just bonk
Really, not even guidance? And I'm sure there are items that increase your religion.
11:00 AY!!! That was so friggin' sweet! T___T
If you know how this feels then you know how this feels 😢🏳️⚧️
Try having Shadowheart go into the room solo - things go down a bit differently.
I like the fact that Selune did nothing to lift this curse.
The gods have a lot of limitations in DnD to do something about most of things (ngl frustrating at times when playing)
But I liked Gale’s explanation, that gods need permission of Ao (who is like the god of gods) “Because divine intervention is usually more troublesome than helpful”
As if Shar got permission to essentially order to kidnap and brainwash a child and then inflict all manner of torment on those poor souls…Ao is an EVIL god. Not neutral…notice how most of the “good” aligned gods cannot do shit while the evil ones have free reign over the place?
Why do you assume she could? You literally know shar is her twin so with that line of logic you would immediately think "why doesn't she kill her evil twin sister?" And then obviously surmise she can't. There's a lot of things gods can't do.
Where is the conversation with the parents after the temple???? I didnt have that!
I heard there’s a bug with patch 5 in the Night orchid cave now. Can you still save the parents?
I did post Patch 5.
How old is Shadowheart? She looks young but it's impossible to tell because of her (half) elf blood.
Shes 48
My guess is 50.
She's been in Shar's captivity for four decades, we know that. Throw on how young she looks in the memory and she's likely around 50. That's Half-Elves for you.
Great now I am crying
Dang i didn't know you could do that
Her father looks like Tobias Menzies.
YOU COULD SAVE THEM!?!?
Anyone understand why I got to this point and the option to persuade her and save her parents didn’t show up? The exact same thing happened to me with astarion in his quest. Idk what I’m doing wrong :/
What were their approval-levels towards you? Low approval makes persuading harder
What happens if you cure her curse with the Noblestalk?
Her forgetting is not the curse, that was an effect from a magical artefact, the pain from the mark on her hand is the curse. And, it being a divine curse, it's nigh impossible to break.
Does anyone know where I can fund them... There not in my camp and. I don't know where else to look
Maybe you are missing a dialogue with someone to finish the quest line and having them at your camp. It happened to me with Thaniel because I didn’t talk to Halsin or something like that.
Is a good game better than spider man xD
Wait, you can just click relase them?
Ah I see you need to tank your frame rate to save them
Arent we lucky that our gods are just fantasy storys.
Yes and no really.
So much of the world is so backward and awful. It would be nice to think there was an entity you could convince to give you the power to change things.
"It would be nice to think that X" is why religions exist at all, I guess.
Also the world is just boring, and the older I get, the more predictable it gets. I could go for a good cataclysm right about now.
@@garjian0
Тhе wоrld isn't bоring, уоu аrе. Тhеrе аrе sеvеrаl wаrs gоing оn, уоu саn jоin thоsе, уоu fuсking еdgеlоrd
From a secular perspective of a Christian, maybe God does right not coming down from the heavens and talking directly to some guy in the street.
Hahaha yes. My in laws
I remember when I did this there was a option to let Shadowheart choose, she killed them. If you give Karlach the choice, she opts to become a soulless illithid. If you let Astarion choose his fate, he becomes a monstrous ascended...
It seems like the message Larian is trying to send here is that free will is bad, and only you can make the best choices for people.
Bane would approve.
When you let Shadowheart choose whether or not to kill Aylin, she spares her. We make all kinds of choices, for good or for ill. I think the best message you can take away from it is that it's important to keep good council around you.
@@jaffarebellion292 the nightsong choice depends on your approval with her/wether or not Tav is still alive after the Balthazar fight, high to exceptional approval Shadowheart will spare nightsong, low approval Shadowheart will kill nightsong… if Tav is dead after the Balthazar fight I believe Shadowheart will kill nightsong regardless of your approval, I believe this choice is dependent on finding some things in Baldurs gate, but I can’t personally confirm that
@shadowcastyt That's actually a pretty impressive amount of variables on the game's part.
I let Astarion choose on his own what to do and he chose not to ascend. It probably depends on your relationship with him up to that point
So the choice isn't actually a choice. That's disappointing.
What do you mean? You can choose to end her parents or save them. How is that not a choice?
@@Foodisgood Because that isn't a choice. That's like saying you can have 10 dollars or 100 dollars. Its the veneer of a choice. If it was Shadowheart or her family then that's a choice.
@@phenom568
Isn't the catch that not only Shadowheart will live in pain if you save her parents, but also her soul will go to Shar and be tortured for eternity? I think that pretty much *is* Shadowheart vs her parents
@@steelbear2063 Not true. Shar can hurt her but she has no claim on her soul.
@@phenom568 That is not an equivalent example, but regardless it is still a choice, Shadowheart had two objectives going into this mission, rescue her parents and finally rid herself of Shar's influence, she can only choose one of those to achieve.
This is not the best ending for Shadowheart, Shar will continue to persecute her even in death, she must choose the Selunite way to save herself and her parents... in fact, if you let her choose, she knows what's the right thing to do.
No she won't. Shar has no claim on her soul as she doesn't worship her. All the mark does is hurt her not grant shar ownership of her soul. Even if it did it wouldn't be impossible to get rid of it.
So Selune can't do anything about her curse?
Possibly but not easily. Shar is as powerful as Selune if not a bit more so.
It's D&D, a curse that causes pain isn't a big deal. Gale can become a God, I'm sure he can get rid of it. Plus in SH's ending where she keeps her parents she says that Shar isn't giving her pain as often. She's losing interest.
@@VDA19 Which makes sense; Shar can be small minded at times but ultimately she's a rather more far sighted deity than the likes of the Dead Three. Petty revenge was gonna get old for her eventually.
@@GriffinPilgrim To add to this, I'm relatively certain the wound was originally a means to prevent her from beginning to regain her memories. The pain crops up when ever something that would remind her of her past life crops up, like the Selune statue, a wolf ect. Once she has truly lost the battle and Shadowheart has renounced Shar, the whole point of the wound lost it purpose and now just serves as spite. She'll lose interest in that eventually.
@@neisan92 I don't think that's it, at least not all of it. It does punish her for thinking about her lost memories but it also sparks off at times when she shows compassion to others or enjoys watching the PC do so. It's more of a general attempt at Pavlovian conditioning to keep Shadowheart from doing anything Shar disapproves of. Though again, as you say, once that fails the only point left is petty spite and Shar has better things to do after a time.