Dungeon Saga Origins : My Thoughts so far
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Adam talks about Dungeon Saga Origins
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I'm waiting for this to arrive next week. Can't wait. Regarding the size of some miniatures, sounds like you just need to use a little imagination and use your own home rules when deciding on if they can fit or direction you actually want to be. Honestly this isn't a negative for myself and not the first time I'd be experiencing that in a game. Good review.
I don't know how much of the original Dungeon Saga you know about game mechanics but the one thing I loved about it was the Magic mechanics where you had magic crystals depending on the strength of the spell had to recharge over time and the laughs and Roll Playing with the friend who played the Wizard was always so funny esp when you needed him to do an amazing spell and it just turned into a fart in the wind or we had to wait for the next hero turn for the spell to charge up full. Some didn't like this but I felt it added that tactical element. Also in the Original DS you leveled up and gained new skills and feats and the monsters leveled up. Also they had an expansion which you could make your own character and other goodies.
I felt the original Dungeon Saga was more in the vein of Advanced Heroquest esp with the RPG expension which expanded beyond the Base game.
That all sounds pretty fun!
@@DieRollin when you get a copy of the first DS you will see. I don't know why they took those out esp the Magic mechanism
Excellent review and I'm thoroughly enjoying your series.
Thanks! We’re enjoying playing it
There was actually a book that came with the original Dungeon Saga kickstarter that novelized a story of that first campaign. It explains who Mortibris is and the path the heroes took to defeat(?) him. Worth getting if you can find it.
Thanks I’ll see if I can source it, always interested in the lore of the games I play, especially if I can bring that into the gameplay somehow
Hey there! Lovely review. I am looking to getting this one. Its either DSO, HeroQuest or D&D Adventure system. Which one of these do you think is the better game for Solo only play? Replay value is a bonus. Maybe suggest a gem other than these? Thank you in advance dude. Cheers!
Okay - do you want to use an app when you play solo?
@@DieRollin I have neither of those games. I am fine with using an app.
@RiffLair HQ has the better app, DSO is the better game imho.
Not had much exposure to DnD adventure system so can’t really comment.
Have you considered shadows of brimstone? 😅 my favourite dungeon crawl
I agree with your take on the game and heroquest. When I was a kid, it was great, but it definitely shows to be pretty shallow for adults. This is tactical, fast paced, and fun. I thought about trying to hot water bend Olaf's axe upward but not sure if that would work. I am also considering painting the minis, if I keep them in the trays my thought would be to keep the bases with unpainted rims so that putting them in and out doesn't mar them. Please show us a session of solo with AI play. I am very interested with Characters we haven't experienced yet! Thank you!
Thanks for watching, and I agree with your comments on HQ. It’s not that it’s a bad game, it’s just (core game at least) is a little too simplistic for my liking.
Let me know how you get on with Orlaf!
I think the no painting on base rims is a good shout.
I’ve painted up for different heroes and will be doing solo soon! V busy time of the year for me, but as soon as I can I will.
Just received my copy of DSO couple of days ago, yet to play but do agree with you about the negatives of non practical sculp, no open doors etc.
Yeah many peeps got warped terrain models, I was fairly lucky as I didn't get many warped, maybe 2 or 3 and they aren't badly warped.
I also like the the combat in DSO regarding front & back arcs, opportunity attacks and interrupts.
Also picked up the remake of HQ (and all expansions so far) a couple of years ago, still have my original HQ with 3 expansions (KK, RotW and AtOH) from 1990. Picked up HQ2021 because it's based on the North American version which imo is the superior version over the UK/Euro version.
25:00 correction - HQ is move then action OR action then move.
Best thing about HQ though is how easy it is to House Rule because it is so basic.
Let me know if you would like to know my house rules and I'll list it here :)
Thanks for checking out the video!
Let me know your house rules! 👍
@@DieRollin
This is best viewed in the video comments and not notifications.
You will need a polyhedral set of dice or at least a d12 and d20.
Official Heroes: Movement
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Basically it's Humans (1d6+5) Elves (1d6+6) Bard & Dwarf (1d6+4) Wearing Plate Armour (1d6+3)
Barbarian: 1d6+5
Bard: 1d6+4
Druid: 1d6+5
Dwarf: 1d6+4
Elf: 1d6+6
Knight: 1d6+5
Monk: 1d6+5
Rogue: 1d6+6
Warlock: 1d6+6
Wizard: 1d6+5
Any character with Plate Armour: 1d6+3
When no Monsters or environment enemies (special tiles like boulder) are on the board, all Heroes (including Plate Armour) may move up to 10 squares.
=============================================================================================================================
Searching
----------------
One Hero can only search for treasure once per furniture piece and must stand adjacent to furniture piece, player then draws a treasure card unless there's a quest item found.
==[Second Chance Draw]== A Hero can draw a second treasure card if they can roll equal to or under their Mind Points with 1d12.
No Second Chance Draw if Hero draws a Wondering Monster card.
Cannot search treasure for empty rooms.
When searching the Weapon Rack, Hero draws card from shuffled Equipment Deck (unless there's a quest item) until they find the first Weapon or Armour card instead of drawing a treasure card. No second chance search allowed.
When searching Alchemist Desk, Hero draws card from shuffled Equipment Deck (unless there's a quest item) until they find the first Potion or Scroll card instead of drawing treasure card. No second chance search allowed.
If you have the Alchemy card deck from 'Rise of the Dread Moon' expansion, Heroes can craft certain potions from certain treasure cards they find at the Alchemist Desk.
Remove 'Hazard!' treasure cards except poison traps, also remove 2 Wondering Monster cards.
===================================================================================================================================
Inventory
--------------
Heroes can carry no more than 4 potions and 4 items (Weapons/Armour) beyond what they are wearing.
Scrolls can count as an item or potion.
Heroes can carry and use X number of Scrolls equal to their Mind Points.
Merchant
---------------
Between quests Heroes may purchase items from the merchant, number of available items will be different each time.
DM will roll 1d4+1d6+1d8+1d10+1d12+1d20 to determine amount of items available, shuffle Equipment Deck take top X number of cards for Merchant.
8d6 is another option but I find there's a more varied result with polyhedral set.
This is based on Core game and ALL expansions, may need to adjust amount of dice suitable for amount of equipment cards available.
Each card equals one purchasable item.
Heroes can sell equipment/items/potions for half their value. Any unused Potions found in the treasure deck can be sold for 75 gold each.
===================================================================================================================
Starting Spell Cards for Wizard and Elf
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Wizard and Elf start with spell cards equal to their Mind Points.
Wizard can select any cards from Air, Earth, Fire and Water Decks, Elf selects cards from Elf Spell Deck from 'Mage of the Mirror' expansion.
If you don't have 'MotM' expansion then both the Wizard and Elf select from any element spell deck one spell at a time taking turns (Wiz starts) equal to their current Mind Points, meaning the Elf can select 4 spells as a fresh Hero and the Wizard 6 spells as a fresh Hero.
ONCE per quest the Wizard can replenish half of their USED Spells (rounding down) for the cost of 3 Body Points and 3 Mind points. The DM will shuffle the used spell cards and the top X number of spells cards are the replenished spells.
====================================================================================================================
Combat
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Hero Elf characters (Elf, Rogue, Warlock, Elf Mercenaries) have the ability to move through Monsters.
The Rogue can Move, Action, and finish Move if they choose to when passing through Monsters but cannot 'Ambidextrous' skill.
EG: Roll for 10, move 5 squares through a monster, attack, then move back 5 squares.
Goblins, Skeletons and evil Elves have the ability to move through Heroes.
Cannot use Crossbow or throw Daggers & Hand Axe's when adjacent (all 8 squares around the Hero) to Monsters, changing weapon costs an action or movement.
Thrown daggers and Hand Axes are retrieved from dead enemies for successful hits after combat has finished (room or corridor cleared), failed thrown Daggers and Hand Axes are considered lost or damaged.
Dungeon Master Wondering Monsters
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DM has a chance to add 1 'Wondering Monster' every round (up to 4 in total at any one time) providing there are monsters already on the board at start of DMs turn.
If successful the DM places the WM at starting wooden door or stairway and moves immediately.
DM rolls 1d20, score of:
20-09 = fail
08-07 = Goblin or Skeleton
06-05 = Goblin or Orc or Skeleton or Zombie
04-03 = Goblin or Orc or Abomination or Skeleton or Zombie or Mummy
02-01 = Goblin or Orc or Abomination or Skeleton or Zombie or Mummy or Dread Warrior or Gargoyle.
Looks like alot of rule changes but some of it is in setting up and between quests.
Great review. And yes, I would like to see even more Dungeon Saga Origins content from you including Solo play. I have really enjoyed your content until now.
I will probably use the Barbarian from the new HeroQuest as Orlaf. DSO and new HQ mins are the same scale. But I also like the new sculp.
The original Dungeon Saga had a bit more character development going on, especially when The Adventurer's Companion came out. Maybe Mantic will release something similar to DSO? Or else the community will eventually convert it at some point.
But other than that, the original DS had a lot of issues that needed some solid house rules to work well. It could be an enjoyable game, but DSO has streamlined and made the rules so much clearer. Especially the solo/co-up rules are much better in DSO.
Thanks so much, means a lot that people are enjoying the content we’re putting out there.
Good shout on using a different sculpt!
I’d be interested to see if they do make a more involved expansion that increases the levelling up element of the game.
I’m planning on filming solo runs of the entire game aswell as me as the overlord so watch this space!
A solo would be good for those who like to play solo and for those to see how the Mechanics work and how different from the first one it is.
I’ll be doing just this, which characters would you like to see?
@@DieRollin ones which people haven't seen yet as it will give a good idea of play mechanics of different characters
I'd like to see a play through of the solo mode, please.
Any preference on characters? I’d like to try ones that aren’t in the group playthroughs :)
I would love to see the monk as a party member
I second a solo play through & would like to see you use the Automated Overlord AI.
@@bobboivin1033done
@@DieRollin Cool. I've been playing a bit & I think I understand the Automated AI but I find myself just rolling a 1d6 to determine if there's an interrupt instead of checking the bottom card in the discard deck. And I forget to flip the mood card often.
I love Dungeon Crawlers as well. I preferred Advanced Heroquest over the First Heroquest. I got the first Dungeon saga and all expansion I loved it - yeah it had some issues but not game breaking. I'm sure some clever gamers will incorporate first DS tile boards with Origins boards..
Love Star Saga as well got all that as well 😂. I was imagining Dungeon Saga were going to end up using the same Dice combat as Star Saga.
Advanced HeroQuest was a vast improvement over the original.
Whats your favourite dungeon crawler?
@@DieRollinooohh what's my fav now that's difficult as I get different things out of the games. I liked Gloomhaven the Jaws of the Lion - as I wasn't going to get the full massive version as game wise it's too long and my gamer friends don't always have the time to play it. It would have to be Advanced Heroquest as it's brutal and you can rpg the game with new adventures and stories. I mean I don't normally go for Scifi board games but Star Saga pulled me in as did Core Space. My attitude is I like all Dungeon Crawlers which can suck me in like a RPG and the story doesn't have to be deep but enough for me to go - next part please 😂. Heroquest I got bored and the theme is all over the shop with let's throw what ever monsters at the board. And the Dice rolling for movement OH MY GOD don't get me started on that 😂.
I did play a "Dungeon Crawler type game" called Aftermath and its a heavy story driven game and decisions you make effect the world around you.
I've got so many I cannot choose which is my fav DnD's The Wraith of Ash(then whisper the last part) was good but had to house rule a few things especially some of the traps - there is a big boulder which takes up the whole corridor but doesn't hurt any enemies just the Hero's. Well we cried BS to that and made the enemies get hurt with the traps but if the traps kill the enemies the heros didn't collect the victory points for it - so it balanced it out.
ordered! Thanks!
My question is how the solo mode works especially if you had already saw the instructions, traps etc
Hey, so I’m playing the solo on the channel (first video this eve) and I’ll be posting my thoughts on it solo.
Essentially there’s two ways you can do it - the first way is using a card to determine when the monsters interrupt but you know the entire layout of the dungeon
- the second way is a neat browser based app they’ve developed which has a nice narration before each adventure and then the map is revealed one area at a time as you open up the dungeon. It also instructs you where to place monsters, traps and when you search tells you when you find special mission related items and secret doors.
The only problem with the browser app is it doesn’t tell you your objective, what monsters are marauding and level 5 doesn’t have the spinning of one of the tiles or tell you that there’s a boss to defeat.
Did we get an answer on fighting through a doorway? The traps feel really weird to me. The instructions say to reveal the trap location as soon as you open the door that leads to them, but it doesn't seem like a trap when you know it is there even if you don't know what it does if anything. I did notice in the inventory it said personal horde, so I wonder if it is intended to share loot to buy things. If your playthroughs it didn't seem like you were getting enough money anytime soon to afford even lower cost items from the merchant with personal money only.
If it’s in your front arc, you can hit it! So fighting through doors is a-ok.
With traps, I agree on this, so thematically I’m playing it that the heroes notice the floor looks different so they think it’s trapped, not perfect but you could play it that you don’t put the traps on the board and the overlord just stops the player when they move over that space - something I find hard to do when filming aswell as playing as I’m focused on a lot of different things.
So the personal horde I believe is only for when you’re in the dungeon, after you finish an adventure you can pool your money together, allowing you to buy things.
I think it’s correct that you can’t afford much until a few adventures to help balance the heroes so they’re not too OP
Fantastic summary... For me the terrain isn't an issue because I just got the legendary pledge! I don't mind tokens on a board. However I could see the frustration of the doors not being able to open! I haven't gotten to play the new game yet as I'm still painting and waiting for the app!
I am very curious to see how the app works out! I'm planning on playing this game co-op. Do you feel you need all 4 heros playing at once? I was thinking a campaign run of 3 people (1 character each) or would you recommend using all 4?... Do you need to have a wizard in play? I haven't paged through everything but it seems spellcasters are the weakest since they can't have items the other characters can have (per the back of the rulebook)... Although they can have their arcane items and what not . But idk if that makes up for such low combat and awful armor. Thoughts on that? Are spells really that powerful or good that makes them worth having?
As far as expansions go, I am incredibly impressed with everything we have in this legendary box. Not gonna lie! However that said I would absolutely love a "conversion, or a "remaster" of the mortibis guy. Finishing off that storyline through origins..... Truthfully I own DS and one of those expansions but never played through it all as my group didn't like having to move before an action. It felt real limiting... They also didn't like that you were required to play with all 4 heroes. I like that in this origins game you can move before OR after your action, and the option is there to play with less than 3 heroes (although I don't know how difficult it makes the game).... So getting an expansion of a new model and maybe a 5-10 quest storyline of facing him would be cool and imo wouldn't take away from the original dungeon saga.
Thanks for watching :)
You could probably play with less heroes but it may may the game more difficult / not sure if the app will allow you to do less than 4, but you could probably get around that.
I’d not say you definitely need a wizard, you can just use whichever heroes better suit your play style. Having spells is pretty neat as they’re pretty powerful but are offset with having a weaker hero to play with.
I think if theres a lot of people asking for more content, they’ll make more content, otherwise we’ll have to rely on this awesome community to make something unofficial!
Thank you for your videos! You are at the top 💪🏻 I'm waiting for my French version of Dungeon saga origins (Legendary Edition) to try to adapt this game to a modular tile version for more exploration and discovery. Do you think this is possible?
Aww thanks! :)
You could definitely do this as a modular game, it wouldn’t affect the overall game negatively so go for it!
HeroQuest is NOT basic. It is as simple or complex as you want it to be.
Thanks for your comment here, I agree that to some people it could seem quite basic whereas others it may be more complex or nuanced. I know some people house rule or add modules of their own design to the base game, or the official expansions, thus making it more complex.
Thank you for this review 😊 annd i love to see gameplay against the AI. 👍🏻🤘🏻
It’s in the pipeline! :) thanks for watching
I liked what I've seen so far. The leveling or lack thereof is a turn-off for me.
Otherwise, this game is a very cool dungeon crawl.
Hey, thanks for checking it out. I’m really enjoying running it and hope that the boons add some fun elements to it, but I know the players wish they could level up and keep their abilities.
Might have been better to show some of the bits and pieces you were talking about.
Yeah, probably. This was mostly made for the people who’ve been following the playthrough videos I guess. I’ll take it on board!
@@DieRollin no worries. I watched it out of order. Enjoyed the play through. Decided it’s not for me I think so it’s sure saved me some money LOL. Always felt like I’d like to like games like this but it just doesn’t grab me, we can’t all like everything I guess. Good luck with your gaming 👍
Expansions make Heroquest better, but its my intro to dungeon crawling for my daughter, at 6 she has no issues with it and we've played half the core quests together this year... I buy it in part for nostaligia as well, but its a good intro into those types of games, though I will say there are other non nostaligic options, Coraquest is supposed to be excellent in this regard.
Dungeon Saga - I had the original, backed the KS I think it was the last mantic KS I backed, I have many many issues with what I recieved from them they have burnt that bridge for me, I'd not pick up another Mantic title ever, even if I hear like Hell boy its really good, over promising and underdelivering to many times fool me once kinda thing, I got fooled four times.. I sold mine off last year.. I'm glad you are enjoying the remade version however, its good they are obviously doing some things better now..
I’m glad that you’re enjoying HeroQuest with your daughter, I do honestly believe it has a place on people’s shelves, specifically for introducing people to dungeon crawlers. But I guess for my tastes it’s a little too basic these days, but that’s my problem!
Sorry to hear you’ve had issues with Mantic, I’ve not experienced any of this myself but I hope you don’t have any more bad experiences with publishers going forward. Thanks for watching the video!
Is this game solo-able without the need of the app? ie a text based AI ruleset?
Yes, no need for an app!
Pericle Awesome Game, not a fan of this one way to many great games out there. i enjoyed your playthroughs.
Thank you
Thanks for watching!
What other games out there would you love to see us cover?
Gee, do you hate Heroquest? I'm not sure.... 🤔
I don’t hate Heroquest 😅
I still think there’s a place for it in todays market, it’s more than for my own personal preferences it’s quite bland compared to something like this :)
Yeah I hear both sides ; however remember , without HQ , we probably wouldn’t have this game or earlier dungeon crawlers .. it was a pioneer back in the day when it was new to an old git like me lol . Great vids Adam ,,, keep em coming pal